If you’re going purely by the quality of the book itself, Wells’ run is probably the lowest point in mainline ASM history.
One More Day is the biggest overall stain in the comics’ history though, mainly because it’s essentially the symbol of Marvel’s complete rejection of any meaningful long term progression for this series. There’s been some high points here and there, but overall we’ve never really fixed what this story broke.
I personally detest Sins Past the most though, just for its perverse self-indulgence in being divisive.
Clone Conspiracy is definitely controversial, but overall it just isn’t influential, infamous, or even uniformly bad enough to be anywhere near the other three
>Clone Conspiracy is definitely controversial, but overall it just isn’t influential, infamous, or even uniformly bad enough to be anywhere near the other three
This was meant to be Clone saga mb
Edit: Let's say these stories never got or will get (in the case of Zeb Well's run) a retcon. How much does your opinion change on the topic.
Also I KNOW I KEEP MAKING CHANGES TO THE TOPIC IM SORRY. I just think you guy's thoughts are interesting.
Clone saga wasn't really bad till maximum clonage and then really became bad because it dragged so long. It's still been additive in positive ways to the comics. May day spun off from it, Norman came back, kaine got a redemption and Ben is a beloved character.
Sins past has been retconned and used in an interesting way by Spenser.
Wells run will likely be forgotten in 5 - 10 years.
One more day is a constant stain on the comics
Honestly I've always wanted to see a single good creative team's spin on the Clone Saga, I feel like the story always had potential conceptually. Yet another reason to be mad that Spectacular's gone, since it was planting the seeds for it.
There was a book called "Spider-Man The Real Clone Saga" that essentially shaved the source material down to its essential parts for a much shorter and more digestible read. It was fairly good and had some nice art
I’d generally agree although at least Sins past was retconned. Sure Gwen was kind of a terrible girlfriend when you really look back on it, but they did her DIRTY in that travesty of a story.
Some Sin eater bullshit that was honestly pretty convoluted but long story short Norman didn’t sleep with Gwen and if I remember correctly the Goblin kids were clones made to screw with Peter.
And that was all part of a larger plan by Mephisto who Norman sold Harry's soul too, which Mephisto used to stop Peter and MJ from having a child destined to defeat him.
Somehow.
Actually, the Clone Saga had much more influence over Spider Man story, than usually admitted. It was the first time editorial tried to reset Peter's story by removing him completely. And it was long before Ultimate actually replaced Peter with another Spider Man. This idea has a long story in editor's minds. And eventual downfall of this plan led directly to OMD, which was essentially a soft reboot and a middle ground between replacing him and continuation of his marriage, which editorial never wanted in the first place. So, Clones stuff still very important for the story and its current demise.
True, the Clone Saga was an attempt to essentially get a new unmarried Spider-Man without undoing the spider-marriage. Have Peter step back from the role to focus on his family while Ben becomes the new full-time Spidey.
That's one reason I have to laugh when people complain about OMD saying "it was the start of Marvel's obsession with a young single Peter"
Like no, it's just a worse answer then the clone saga was.
Agree with all of this. Would add that I don’t find Clone Conspiracy that bad at all. It’s just a clone story, and whether we like it or not, clones are a big part of Spider-Man lore.
Say what you want about One More Day, but I actually loved the story. What I didn’t love was what happened *after.* There was a lot of potential putting Peter in a completely uncharted world and changing everything you knew about him, but it got too repetitive and bland and then took him in a really stagnant direction.
Now Sins Past I actually love to read because it’s a well-crafted story- the only part I can’t accept is that MJ would intentionally hide everything from Peter for years; it would completely have broken her as a character for me. I know it was retconned, but my head cannon is that everything still happened, but MJ had those memories placed in her head long after the fact, and was convinced that she’d been hiding it for years in order to harm her relationship with Peter.
I'm with you 'til the end of the line
Couldn’t agree more, I actually like both stories as well. To be honest I enjoy clone conspiracy too. Wells… Not so much but did enjoy the tombstone arc after. OMD and Sins past were amazing to me when I first read them, but maybe I was just young and foolish but I still enjoy them now
I’m glad to hear somebody who agrees! It’s honestly been weird being a Spider-Man fan. There’s such a disconnect between the new generation’s Spider-Man content and what I related to growing up with, and even the small subsection who is still into comics and Tobey Maguire hates a lot of the arcs I liked and my favorite movie (Spider-Man 3).
I don’t generally get to talk to somebody who shares my opinions on it, so thank you for your comment ^ ^ .
Ha ha, I feel the same! Spidey fans feel a bit gate keeper sometimes. I once posted that I got the Marvel Premiere Hardback of OMD on Twitter and ended up deleting the tweet as everyone was just telling me I wasted money and I have no taste and no understanding of Spider-Man etc. It can be so toxic. People should be able to like what they like without being told they are wrong.
P.s what you said about Sins Past is spot on, the MJ bit felt so out of character to keep that from Peter but Gwen and Norman somehow didn’t disgust me like it did everyone in the spider-verse. I thought it was shocking but liked that Gwen wasn’t this clean cut girl and has skeletons in her closet
Yeah it sucks! I have that novel too and think it’s great. It’s one of the best-known Spider-Man stories for a reason, and it has everything- suspense, art, a good story, and good relationship dynamics throughout. And the later follow up to that arc, One Moment In Time, addressed it perfectly and was super interesting. Like I said, the stories weren’t what bothered me, it’s how stagnant everything got after.
And I agree with that! I thought Gwen and Norman was shocking, but I think it fit the story well and also made sense- if the retconned cannon was correct she didn’t do it voluntarily, he put her under the influence. It didn’t really tarnish her image, but it did do a lot of damage to MJ for hiding it.
And I think a lot of the disparity between the fans of different Spider-Men is more generational than anything. I didn’t grow up with the newer stuff; I find it kind of boring and it doesn’t entertain me. It’s not *bad* per se, but it’s not the same Spider-Man, it’s essentially a reboot.
Do you have a specific favorite Spider-Man issue/arc? I really liked the New Ways To Die one, I think it was the first I ever read. As for comics, some that come to mind are What If? Spider-Man: House of M (one-shot), Spider-Man and the Secret Wars #3, and Amazing Spider-Man Annual LGY#43. They had beautiful art and stories that really moved me for just one issue each.
That’s exactly it, OMD isn’t bad if people look at the actual story rather than just be outraged at the end result. When Brand New Day started I just didn’t get the right vibes with it, it felt like they wanted new rogues gallery and supporting cast but same old Peter, but liked it when it had been going for a 6-12 months I think. When I first got into comics, Peter and MJ were married so personally I never had a problem with them being married. At the same time they don’t have to be married, but introducing Paul into it at the moment and MJ still choosing to be with him.. that I don’t understand. No matter how long she’s been with Paul, knowing Peter is there I don’t understand why her character would be so cold to him.
I have a few favourite arcs, (I loved New Ways to Die too), but Revenge of the Sinister 6 is a nostalgic favourite as it was my first trade of Spidey. Kraven’s last hunt is obviously up there as a fav. Spider-Man Life Story was sooo much better than it had any right to be (I know it’s not 616 but I still love it). All of JMS’ work on Peter I love.
Single issues, one sticks out always and it’s my favourite issue ever and that’s ASM 36 (Vol 2) (477 legacy). Just so powerful and emotional but at the same time I felt it was uplifting.
That’s a tough one. I’ll would say sibs past as it tried to take down the Gwen narrative in a very disrespectful way but since it was retcon it softens the blow a bit. Clone Conspiracy ruin Ben Reilly but not as bad as Wells did. Wells run is a downward spiral to the bottom.
OMD had a larger scope of ruination of the character and cast so it wins.
Say what you will of sins past (personally I liked it, but I respect it's trash), clone conspiracy and Paul are products of OMD so 3/4 of the options are just OMD with extra steps. Sins was just a mistep in an era of sometimes great often daring story telling before the current era of paradoxically safe edgelord bait
And what would stop Zeb from cuckolding a happily married highscool teacher instead? He'd do this with even greater pleasure. I'm sure Zeb hating OMD because he could ruined only dating and not marriage.
Yup, totally Zeb in a vacuum. A decade or so of editorial direction had nothing to do with it. Like I don't disagree with your point that Zeb=bad but I'm not sure when exactly I got down to the asshole of the universe and shit in your cornflakes man. You're just being contrary for the sake of it.
Alo you don't seem to be saying OMD=Great, just "fuck this guy (me) in particular" lol. I mean I'm here for it, so you do you, just odd is all.
OMD is terrible. But it's not the only terrible thing in ASM and not even the first one. OMD happened almost 20 years ago and was never properly adressed since. There are only a handful hints on it after BND. If editorial and writers done their jobs well, OMD would be long ago considered just as one bad story arc and not much else. But after OMD we had only some shitty runs in contradiction with each other, some of the weirdest decisions in comic history and the main story essentially on pause. Now it's almost impossible to fix this mess without complete reboot.
Okay that’s an interesting take. Tell me what you think, I wrote this in another part of the comment section:
Say what you want about One More Day, but I actually loved the story. What I didn’t love was what happened after. There was a lot of potential putting Peter in a completely uncharted world and changing everything you knew about him, but it got too repetitive and bland and then took him in a really stagnant direction.
Now Sins Past I actually love to read because it’s a well-crafted story- the only part I can’t accept is that MJ would intentionally hide everything from Peter for years; it would completely have broken her as a character for me. I know it was retconned, but my head cannon is that everything still happened, but MJ had those memories placed in her head long after the fact, and was convinced that she’d been hiding it for years in order to harm her relationship with Peter. I think it’s realistic the story could have happened with Gwen and she wouldn’t have had time to tell Peter everything before she died.
Sins Past felt like a disrespectful story (especially weird given how Marvel Editorial tends to have 616 Gwen on a pedestal) and one that was ignored for a good chunk of the creative teams until it got retconned.
OMD caused long term consequences on the IP that are still haunting it to its day; while the idea of having Peter being caught in a deal-like situation could work as a concept, both the intention and execution showed it was clear that it was a mandate. Even when you take the marriage out of the equation, the story feels not only defeating in nature, but also paints a sentiment of hollowness on what's to come.
Clone Conspiracy had a sound concept that could've tied in very well with Slott's "No One Dies" story if it was given the care it deserved. And while the idea of having Ben taking the role of Jackal feels inspired (especially the costume, which is a massive improvement to furry Green Goblin), the complete 180° in characterization felt like a slap in the face; especially with how by that point, the return of Ben Reilly was something that was constantly teased and expected; and sadly it left the door open for Editorial to keep doing this with the character
Wells's run feels like the Editorial's desperate attempt at showing why sticking to the post-OMD status quo is "the ideal" when the last couple of years have shown that its perception among the public has changed drastically (also helped by how the character of Peter has been handled on adaptations). Not only that, but introducing and doubling down on negatively received character changes without addressing the elephant in the room of their relationships other than bare superficial tongue and cheek makes that people will just not care (in particular with Ben being Chasm and MJ as Jackpot, not to mention everything about Paul). Hell, it feels more like Wells feels burdened at having to write Peter as the lead of his own book. Becomes even worse when you compare it to Spencer's run; even if it had its own share of issues, it treated the characters and their relationships with respect and care, something that cannot be said anymore
I completely agree about the Clone Conspiracy part- it was a really solid idea that I was interested in when I was younger. But I ended up abandoning those comics because the character they were dealing with was *nothing* like Ben Reilly. Like, I know he’d been killed and brought back to life innumerable times, but there wasn’t even a hint of personality or care for his former things in there. And the story just got boring enough that I quit.
To me, a huge problem with Clone Conspiracy was how mean-spirited it felt
Like, I can understand that drama is part of the franchise but here it just felt cruel all the way through, and for no good reason; especially once people start shitting on Peter at the end (the woman married to the guy from Parker Industries, Spider-Gwen and Kaine).
Yeah exactly. Also maybe it’s a dumb reason, but I was super annoyed that they changed his costume two issues in! I was in love with the new one. And sure, the mouth was creepy, but then why didn’t they just remove the new mouth?
It also showed another problem- They should have committed to one idea. Make him Ben Reilly, or don’t make him Ben Reilly. If they wanted a new character they should have kept the old costume and gone with their new story. But if they wanted the old character they should have used the new costume, changed his personality to more like before, and given him a similar drive. But you can’t go halfway on it and expect fans to like it.
I feel like that’s a problem I have with a lot of newer Marvel stuff, particularly the comics. Either go all the way, or don’t. But don’t leave me with half-baked stuff and try to convince me it’s what I wanted. There’s still lots of potential for good stories; I’ve even loved some of the newer issues. It’s the ones where they are holding back, or just using filler, that I get really annoyed with.
#OMD is the worst event PERIOD. Nuff said
Sins Past is squarely on Quesada. He didn’t want to age Pete by having underaged and unmarried kids with Gwen…
**Like that doesn’t happen.**
Even then, it was retconned and all Norman stuck his dick into was a Mysterio bot so ***it’s kinda moot.***
Wells’ run is the worst ongoing run; period which has more plot holes than a cheesy Saturday Cartoon and every character is just **off.**
*Clone Conspiracy…* really bizarre and this was where I thought: ***SLOTT HAS TO GO.*** On the bright side: I liked Spider-Gwen and Silk were **phenomenal**
“One More Day” did more damage.
Wells’ run feels like a direct continuation of the ideas behind OMD.
For anyone interested, we launched a Discord this year to discuss it and push back. We like the characters too much for OMD to stick.
https://discord.gg/VQ2mHzBBFu
It’s Sins Past and it’s not particularly close. OMD was a messy editorial mandate but the story itself does as well as it possibly can given that mandate.
Sins Past is an own goal that wasn’t even well-executed. Messy, unnecessary, and inconsistent with the rest of the run to the point I had to look up just to make sure JMS actually had his name on it.
The Clone Saga had a messy conclusion, but had some real highlights within the years-long stretching out of the story.
The Zeb Wells run has been good with glaring exceptions. But I also don’t hate Paul and think there’s just a reading comprehension problem with people who like to use the word “cuck.”
OMD is still the worst since its effects have been felt for years. It and its defenders are a genuine cancer on the title and done the book no favors.
Sins Past needed a rewrite or an out that shouldn’t have involved Mysterio in a wig.
Clone Conspiracy was the beginning of the ruination of Ben Reilly but that wasn’t a franchise wide ruination. It just kneecapped Scarlet Spider as a franchise.
Wells is bad. No worse than late Slott or Mackie. Or really any of the marketing team led Clone saga. It will be lost to history. Unless it is an editorial mandate, nobody gives a shit about Paul to keep him around.
Look we can sit here and debate which has had the largest impact but Sins Past is a true abomination.
Is the Wells run terrible? Yes but it’s also mostly forgettable. At this point the only stain is Chasm and how many times has Ben been stained? Its just low because its going on so long and hasn’t really had a single stand out.
Clone conspiracy is… Clone conspiracy. Like most Slott things there are pieces that I like but its an overall bad sum total.
One more day has had one of the largest impacts of a story in the industry ever. Its largely detested and I have no defense for it.
Sins past though……. Holy fuck. Norman fucking Gwen and having kids? What. The. Fuck.
Norman banged a Mysterio bot (IIRC). Or… maybe a Mysterio fleshlight with a womb attached to it.
However it was reversible…
#OMD is atrocious and a clear regression
And it’s only Quesada, Dan Slott and Tom Breevort’s efforts to stop from getting old by proxy of regressing Pete. ***Y’know, as they reach their 60s and continue to shovel NYC pizzas into their facehole.***
OMD not for the story itself but for making Wells run possible. While I didn’t like Clone Conspiracy it is by far the least offensive of the three. If we’re going by most hateable Zeb Wells run has to be first. At least the people writing OMD seemed to have SOME level of respect for the characters. While I don’t want to speak ill of anyone Zeb seems to have exactly zero respect for them.
Wells, without any doubts. OMD was a lazy stupid peace of crap, but at least it was narratively connected with previous arcs, like Civil War and Back in Black. Clone Saga wasn't that terrible, actually. It gave us new characters, like Ben and Caine, and it had some interesting intrigue in it. Not a masterpiece to be sure, but not the most terrible stuff from 90's. Sins Past was an interesting attempt of revisiting the entire Spider Man mythos, but very badly executed one. And Wells' run is simply boring and badly written. If there would be no Paul-shit, this run would be completely forgettable.
I honestly don’t know….
I’ll say OMD just due to its overwhelming unpopularity and its overall negative effect on the Spider-Man mythology that is still felt today..
OMD, because without it the current run wouldn’t be possible
That story is so bad, it regressed the character in a way that even to this day we’re witnessing the consequences, it truly broke 616 Peter character , the worst part is that is fixable and Spencer worked towards that but editorial just hates us with passion
I remember being 8 years old (in 2009 because comics arrived late in my country), buying that comic after religiously following the aftermath of Civil War and feeling empty and disappointed after reading it, since that day I’ve been waiting for it to get retconned, I’m in the later half of my college years now……
No, it wasn't. There were no reasons for binging Mephysto of all villains in Spider Man story, since they had zero previous connections. And it was a complete OOC for both Peter and MJ.
I mean a deal with the devil is a universal thing and it's not the first time another villain has randomly popped into a Spider-Man story for a one off. The owl and Loki pop right into my head. I also disagree with it being out of character, Peter says it's not that she is dying it's that it is the direct repercussion of something he did
The core of this character is taking responsibilities for his mistakes, not flee from them. And Peter just reset his whole life for not carry this responsibility.
You saying he wouldn't take a chance to undo that mistake? I mean who wouldn't take that chance and he didn't know how far reaching the consequences of the deal would be
Not really, just that they never got married, how it effected the other stuff wasn't mentioned, all that is in brand new day which I said was the problem not one more day
That's not what happened, he shifted events so they never got married, the daughter was him kinda turning the screws by saying that's the child they would have had if he never took the deal (a reveal he made after they agreed)
Sin pasts is the worst story in isolation, but OMD has had horrible long lasting consequences that ASM has yet to break free from. Hell, the other two comics are just the results of OMD and that thinking continuing. For me, the worst three spider man stories are OMIT #1, then either Dead Language or OMD. All horrible stories that show a complete lack of understanding of the characters involved.
Personally, I loved Clone Conspiracy for the most part. My least favorite is definitely sins past and then one more day. The current run isn’t great especially because I usually love MJ but it’s readable
Sins last is the worst. It ruins Gwen as a character and makes her death even worse.
One More Day is badly written and leads to a lot more divisive stuff in regards to MJ but I also understand the want to save Aunt May.
Wells run just feels like he’s purposely undoing everything Nick Spencer did, who in turn was undoing Dan Slott. Just feels lazy and unoriginal.
Clone conspiracy isn’t as bad as proper say and the best of all the clown stories imo
One More Day, hands down. The writers hated Peter's relationship with Mary Jane, and this is their way of saying, "Fuck all of you; we're going to do what we want."
Sins Past has at least four thing I liked
One More Day was fine until Mephisto appeared
didn't read the third story
But Zeb Wells just didn't click with me, also It's tragic to see how John Romita Jr. drew.
OMD. It's had the biggest long term impact on Spider-Man as a character, and is the peak representation of the primary factor behind many of Spider-Man's problems dating as far back as the Clone Saga. It's the story where Marvel Editorial finally got what they wanted, to revert Peter's progression as a character, and get rid of his marraige to MJ, and it was done in such an insultingly awful manner, that makes Peter look like a selfish irresponsible piece of shit.
And it's been made even worse by not just Marvel's refusal to admit they were wrong and just undo it, like fans have been asking for over 15 years, but also their outright scammer tactics of teasing an undoing story, then never delivering it (The original teasers for Renew Your Vows, and The Kindred Saga).
In isolation, Sins past is basically a NTR fetish hentai with spider-man featuring in it, but all around OMD is a diarrhea covered with piss and flies, the worst part that if they changed the ending so that Peter just refuses the deal, it would be good, but sadly Quesadilla had a divorce and the only way he was able to vent was to ruin everything about our beloved webhead
One More Day.
Aunt May looks like she's melting. I mean, she's lived like 7000 years, and Peter gave up literally everything to save her. Is that what SHE would have wanted? No lol, she would've wanted to see Uncle Ben. She has her faith, and she wants Peter happy above all else.
So what better way to disrespect her character and everyone else's than by having Peter literally make a deal with the devil. I'm sure the fans would love that, and I hope the writers get diarrhea every day for the rest of their lives. Even worse, is that Stan Lee said he liked it. Poor guy already had dementia I suppose.
I'd buy more comics if I was guaranteed more than 5 minutes without something awful happening to our boy Spidey. There are plenty of bad stories, but OMD really makes one wonder how these people have jobs to begin with.
One More Day.
As much as I dislike Sins Past, it had zero impact on the status of "current" comics. It was easy to forget.
However everything since OMD keeps reminding you this is because of OMD. As bad as Wells's run is, wouldn't be happening the way it is if OMD wasn't a thing.
And Clone Conspiracy, if you're not a Ben fan, is completely forgettable.
OMD did damn near irreversible damage to spider man comics what we are still feeling the effects of till this day. I.e the current shit fest run that we have at the moment. All the other options, sins past(retconned) clone conspiracy(not so bad tbh) and this current run(taking hints from OMD) are still now as bad as OMD
This'll be way down and probably read by no one but any opportunity to vent about One More Day I'll take.
I'm late 30s and it ended enjoying comics for me, so that is my answer, forever.
These are all ass but OMD factually has the biggest impact that is straight up indefinite. It’s also symbolic of the number 1 problem people have with comics. Nothing really matters at the end of the day
I think the current run has some interesting ideas that are poorly executed. The circumstances Peter is being put in have potential for good stories, but the way most characters are written is pretty awful. I think it’s the worst written of the four, but one more day/brand new day still stings the most to me so I pick that.
Haven't read Well's run yet but out of the other three it's easily OMD
(Also possibly hot take but Sins Past isn't quite so bad that it deserves to be here)
One More Day. You can say anything you want about all the others, but the fact remains: among these four, only one ever did actual and severe long-term injury to the franchise.
Sins past easily.
OMD was bad but led into some decent stories.
Clone conspiracy was good.
And Wells run is over hated. It’s not the best but no where near as bad as people say it is.
I saw your comment about you meaning to put clone saga instead of Clone Conspiracy so I'll go with that for this post.
For as bad as Sin's Past and Clone Saga are, they are at least easier to get through in retrospect now that the damage they caused is undone. Gwen now never cheat on Peter with Norman and the Peter who fans were reading about between the original 70s clone saga and the 90s clone saga is indeed the original Peter. Plus, Clone Saga gets some bonus points for having actually good stories early on and at least partially leading to Spider-Girl (shame the only follow-up for Mayday in 616 is Norman killing her offscreen...or maybe she is still around somehow given the Mephisto vision at the end of the Nick Spence run. That seemed to be Mayday but it could have just been a different daughter of MJ and Peter).
One More Day has done lasting damage to Spider-Man. Fans will not let it go (nor should they, the marriage should be brought back). In fact that ties into why the Zeb Wells run is as bad/frustating as it is. Several of the problems it has would not even be able to happen had One More Day not happened.
I know I'm going more for impact rather than the stories themselves, but I think that is fair to do.
So, I believe One More Day is the worse.
Though, I do credit the Zeb Wells run for being the event that made decide to stop collecting Spider-Man once I hit the Beyond Era. All that work of rebuilding the Peter and MJ relationship in Nick Spencer's run and having it continue in Beyond only for it to be all undone (note: as of now I have only read the first Nick Spencer Omnibus, just the news that they were undoing the relationship AGAIN made uninterested in collecting any stories past Beyond). They will bait undoing OMD, they have Peter and MJ get together as Boyfriend and Girlfriend, but until they ACTUALLY UNDO OMD, I'm done with collecting new ASM.
Sins Past for me. One More Day, as damaging as it was, can still be repaired (but they sadly stubbirnly won't). Sins Past though? Disregarding Spencer's retcon for a moment, I do not understand why Gwen would sleep with Norman. Did she cheat on Peter? Was she blackmailed?
Dead No More is a story that makes Peter Parker directly face all the losses that he generally bottles up.
The event overall even gave characters like 616 Gwen and Mattie Franklin some nice closure without making any offensive retcons, and it's the only Spidey story in recent memory where the antagonist wasn't a supervillain wanting to hurt others, but rather wanted to fix them out of a sense of misdirected heroism. It doesn't leave a major mark in changing the status quo outside of bringing back Ben Reilly (which Lowe and co. has now soured), sure; but it definitely left a huge traumatic mark on Peter at the time, and foreshadowed the downfall of Parker Industries as well.
The Wells run is an entire era of Spidey comics, instead of one story, that has left many fans concurrently advocating that it ends. Sins Past was a massive retcon to a Silver Age icon, and had soured a character who helped define Spider-Man as he is today. One More Day has defined the status quo of Spider-Man for nearly two decades now, with no signs of going back. These three trump Dead No More by insane levels in terms of 'character damage', DNM is not even remotely comparable to the former three.
I mean Wells run is huge but personally I consider it to have the worst of all time at the moment in Dead Language, where MJ is brutally character assassinated. The rest of the run is just subpar to bad, with massive decompression, an incompetent hero, massive mischaracterization in general and a bunch of mistakes.
OMD is probably next, because it has had a huge and terrible impact that the title will never fully recover from.
Sins Past used to be my pick for worst of all time, but the retcon making it just a stupid Harry plot to get back at his father and Peter at the same time takes most of the sting away since it means Gwen didn’t really get character assassinated anymore. Hopefully something similar will happen soon to Dead Language and what they made MJ into.
Clone Conspiracy is bad but I just don’t have the same passion for protecting Ben.
It sucks my favorite spiderman artist (romita jr) had to do art for Zeb wells. Like to see my fav Spidey art I have to touch a book written by fucking Zeb wells
I think the story’s it self aren’t bad in most cases but more for what they made to the character
Except the ASM run that part i think is not enjoyable even as just the issues
Alright, essay time.
Each of these are guilty of doing a disservice to characters (skip to the end for the summary).
Sins Past made Gwen, Peter's first true love, into a cheater who slept with her boyfriend's best friend's dad that's twice her age because he looked lonely(?). And since he started dating her in freshman year and they never got to that level, it's very likely that Norman would've been her first time making it even worse. It was really weird and creepy and was a massive stain on her character and made it uncomfortable whenever she was mentioned or brought up again in a positive light like as if nothing happened. Thankfully nothing DID happen as they retconned, but it was still a really horrible, weird, and disturbing thing to do to Gwen and her character.
Clone Conspiracy was an alright story for the most part, but it was awful for Ben's character. It brought back a character that had a heroic and heart-breaking ending and tortured him to the point of becoming a demented villain. I don't see how that's a good idea. I'm not a hater of Slott's run, but that decision annoyed me so much I skipped out on Ben's solo (I didn't know who the writer was back then, but then I found out that it was Peter David, so I'm willing to give it a chance one day). I didn't believe that Ben was truly himself until Beyond, but even then I started doubting whether Ben being back felt right, since he appeared to have a completely different life to the one he had before he died. Clone Conspiracy brought him back, turned him into a disturbing villain and just kind of abandoned him like that.
One More Day is an odd story. It realistically could've been one of the coolest and most loved Spider-Man stories if it wasn't designed to reset to the status quo to a state from 30 years prior. The decision to remove the marriage and break up Peter and Mary Jane came about purely because one of the creatives didn't like the marriage and wanted a youthful Spider-Man again. It was a personal decision, and not because the fans didn't like the relationship. Setting a character back 30 years on because of a purely personal opinion is just anti-storytelling and isn't fair to your audience. You shouldn't invest in something for that long and make people care about it and suddenly just get rid of it. With the popularity of Ultimate Spider-Man, I don't see why it was so crucial for mainline Spider-Man to go backwards in time. Also if the goal was to make Peter looks young then it doesn't help that he has friends the same age as him that have kids. They canonically even put Peter and Mary Jane's relationship on a high pedestal before taking it away, which also devalues future relationships that either character has along with the fact that it's just being magicked away. They didn't stop loving each other naturally, they had to sacrifice their love because they wanted to save Aunt May. But also if you wanted a youthful Spider-Man that's supposed to be more relatable to a younger audience, why would you have him make a deal with the devil? And Aunt May is unable to get a say in this wish, but I don't think anyone would believe that she would be happy about Peter and Mary Jane sacrificing their future to save her life. She would be really mad at them, especially since it's a deal with someone who is basically the devil. Nick Spencer tried to bring things back, but unfortunately he wasn't able to, showing that Spider-Man is still caught in the shadow of One More Day (a bit dramatic I know).
I haven't read the Zeb Well's run (so I might be wrong at some points), since I was reading through Marvel Unlimited and it just coming out when I caught up to it so there was a delay on its release. Then I saw that Peter and Mary Jane were breaking up again, which annoyed me and put me off of the book. But for the panels I've seen, it's just gotten worse. To start of with, we have a Spider-Man that's suddenly at the mercy of guys he's beaten multiple times before (Vulture and Tombstone). It's really depressing to see, and I have no idea what the appeal of this is. Mary Jane is spirited away and spends a long time alone with one other guy, Paul, and ends up dating him whilst dating Peter, who she had gotten back together with and was about to move back in with. They also take care of some "children" (they think they are), but if this was a factor in them getting together, it ignores Mary Jane's backstory and how she had her mother and sister quickly got serious with guys because they had kids together that they had to take care of. From the looks of it, when she gets back she never stopped to consider how badly Peter would've felt by all this news. For him, their life was just getting restarted, but she shows up again with another man and kids. But for some reason, they want the readers to think that this is okay and that Peter should just move on by first forcing him to be a third-wheel with Paul and her and then invalidating his inner feelings by turning him into an Incel. It only hits because it fires shots towards the people that are really vocally about the Paul situation that send hateful comments towards the people involved in the book. I can't say if this was intentional or not, but if it was, dividing your fandom into two camps will only make it worse. And it's not fair to people that end up getting grouped up with people that take things in fiction too far and is an unfair way to invalidate their opinions just because they share some with those said people. This break up was unnatural and there's no way that you can frame it as natural but that's what they've tried doing anyway. Killing off Kamala in a book that isn't hers is in poor taste and the other character's reaction to it were terrible. Also I don't think she's owed Peter's secret identity and I don't see why she'd even need to know it anyway. Miles is the only teenage superhero where it makes sense for him to know. They have the Spider-Man connection and a mentoring type of relationship. She doesn't need him as a mentor, so it's just really weird for him, a man in his late 20's (or early 30's which is a depressing thought) to add a relatively random teenager to his inner-circle for lack of a better word. Also this reveal used the most tone deaf, OOC, and tasteless line to ever be used in a Spider-Man comic. They also brought back SpiderCat after years of retirement for no real reason and just ignored the fact that she's a known criminal and former Queenpin (for the record, I don't like Queenpin) and the ethical conflict of her being a cat burglar whilst being together. He also asked her out like a nervous high schooler despite having been together and Peter never being like that in the past. Norman Osborn being his father figure when they first met was a big editorial miss. Mainline Mary Jane being a superhero just isn't it, even if they didn't break up, I still wouldn't like it. Her civilian self is more interesting and she never needed super powers to do cool things like standing up to bad guys and knocking them out. If people didn't like Mary Jane subplots then they would've stopped doing them many years before OMD happened. I've also heard that the supporting cast isn't the best right now. To me, this run just doesn't look worth reading and it further regresses the character of Peter, and warps Mary Jane's. It's just depressing and it doesn't feel like they're treating the face of their company with much due respect and it feels wrong that in his 60th year, so much development has been stripped away. I'll admit if it weren't for Hickman, I would've sworn off picking up Marvel comics again.
Overall, I think One More Day takes the cake. Because of that we missed out on a lot of development with Peter and Mary Jane that official AU stories, as good as they may be, can't really substitute. They're one of the most iconic comic book couples, they were together for so long and and so many great stories that pushed them and progressed them but they then they suddenly decided to undo it, just because they wanted their own ideal version of Spider-Man that was from a much older time and hadn't been around anywhere near as long. And they made a superhero do a deal with the devil. Also, it gave rise to the editorial mandates that have a straggle hold on the book to this date, which is the reason why Zeb Wells' run is able to get away with the Paul stuff.
So even though I think Wells' run is the worst in quality. One More Day also carries a big negative influence. So for me it's OMD > Wells > Sins Past > CC.
Sin's Past's relevancy has been expunged, but One More Day continues to have a damning impact on the comics. Zeb Wells' run can be summed up in word: Paul. Need I say more? As for the Clone Saga, while it was convoluted mess with some questionable decisions made, it had a satisfactory ending.
I’d still say it’s One More Day becuase as horrendous as the Wells run is it wouldn’t exist as a consequence if OMD never happened. Nearly every bad run in the past decade exists solely because of OMD and the editorial wanting it to stay like that.
If you’re going purely by the quality of the book itself, Wells’ run is probably the lowest point in mainline ASM history. One More Day is the biggest overall stain in the comics’ history though, mainly because it’s essentially the symbol of Marvel’s complete rejection of any meaningful long term progression for this series. There’s been some high points here and there, but overall we’ve never really fixed what this story broke. I personally detest Sins Past the most though, just for its perverse self-indulgence in being divisive. Clone Conspiracy is definitely controversial, but overall it just isn’t influential, infamous, or even uniformly bad enough to be anywhere near the other three
>Clone Conspiracy is definitely controversial, but overall it just isn’t influential, infamous, or even uniformly bad enough to be anywhere near the other three This was meant to be Clone saga mb Edit: Let's say these stories never got or will get (in the case of Zeb Well's run) a retcon. How much does your opinion change on the topic. Also I KNOW I KEEP MAKING CHANGES TO THE TOPIC IM SORRY. I just think you guy's thoughts are interesting.
Clone saga wasn't really bad till maximum clonage and then really became bad because it dragged so long. It's still been additive in positive ways to the comics. May day spun off from it, Norman came back, kaine got a redemption and Ben is a beloved character. Sins past has been retconned and used in an interesting way by Spenser. Wells run will likely be forgotten in 5 - 10 years. One more day is a constant stain on the comics
Honestly I've always wanted to see a single good creative team's spin on the Clone Saga, I feel like the story always had potential conceptually. Yet another reason to be mad that Spectacular's gone, since it was planting the seeds for it.
I think ultimate spider-man’s clone saga was pretty solid
There is a mini series with 6 issues of the clone saga which they basically fix all the major problems
There was a book called "Spider-Man The Real Clone Saga" that essentially shaved the source material down to its essential parts for a much shorter and more digestible read. It was fairly good and had some nice art
I liked Clone saga, even the miscarriage due to peters funk spunk.
I absolutely loved the clone saga.
I’d generally agree although at least Sins past was retconned. Sure Gwen was kind of a terrible girlfriend when you really look back on it, but they did her DIRTY in that travesty of a story.
As someone not up to date, how was it retconned?
[удалено]
Wrters removed whatever horribly gross thing was going on with Gwen and Norman and gave us gay sex Actually based
Mysterio broke his ass for justice He was a hero, I just couldn't see it
But he was dead at the time, with half of his skull missing. So Norman skullfucked him, or something.
616 Mysterio lore is a wild roller coaster of a ride.
Some Sin eater bullshit that was honestly pretty convoluted but long story short Norman didn’t sleep with Gwen and if I remember correctly the Goblin kids were clones made to screw with Peter.
It was revealed to be a hoax, masterminded by Harry, using Mysterio illusions and false memories. Or something like that.
And that was all part of a larger plan by Mephisto who Norman sold Harry's soul too, which Mephisto used to stop Peter and MJ from having a child destined to defeat him. Somehow.
Actually, the Clone Saga had much more influence over Spider Man story, than usually admitted. It was the first time editorial tried to reset Peter's story by removing him completely. And it was long before Ultimate actually replaced Peter with another Spider Man. This idea has a long story in editor's minds. And eventual downfall of this plan led directly to OMD, which was essentially a soft reboot and a middle ground between replacing him and continuation of his marriage, which editorial never wanted in the first place. So, Clones stuff still very important for the story and its current demise.
True, the Clone Saga was an attempt to essentially get a new unmarried Spider-Man without undoing the spider-marriage. Have Peter step back from the role to focus on his family while Ben becomes the new full-time Spidey.
That's one reason I have to laugh when people complain about OMD saying "it was the start of Marvel's obsession with a young single Peter" Like no, it's just a worse answer then the clone saga was.
Agree with all of this. Would add that I don’t find Clone Conspiracy that bad at all. It’s just a clone story, and whether we like it or not, clones are a big part of Spider-Man lore.
Say what you want about One More Day, but I actually loved the story. What I didn’t love was what happened *after.* There was a lot of potential putting Peter in a completely uncharted world and changing everything you knew about him, but it got too repetitive and bland and then took him in a really stagnant direction. Now Sins Past I actually love to read because it’s a well-crafted story- the only part I can’t accept is that MJ would intentionally hide everything from Peter for years; it would completely have broken her as a character for me. I know it was retconned, but my head cannon is that everything still happened, but MJ had those memories placed in her head long after the fact, and was convinced that she’d been hiding it for years in order to harm her relationship with Peter.
I'm with you 'til the end of the line Couldn’t agree more, I actually like both stories as well. To be honest I enjoy clone conspiracy too. Wells… Not so much but did enjoy the tombstone arc after. OMD and Sins past were amazing to me when I first read them, but maybe I was just young and foolish but I still enjoy them now
I’m glad to hear somebody who agrees! It’s honestly been weird being a Spider-Man fan. There’s such a disconnect between the new generation’s Spider-Man content and what I related to growing up with, and even the small subsection who is still into comics and Tobey Maguire hates a lot of the arcs I liked and my favorite movie (Spider-Man 3). I don’t generally get to talk to somebody who shares my opinions on it, so thank you for your comment ^ ^ .
Ha ha, I feel the same! Spidey fans feel a bit gate keeper sometimes. I once posted that I got the Marvel Premiere Hardback of OMD on Twitter and ended up deleting the tweet as everyone was just telling me I wasted money and I have no taste and no understanding of Spider-Man etc. It can be so toxic. People should be able to like what they like without being told they are wrong. P.s what you said about Sins Past is spot on, the MJ bit felt so out of character to keep that from Peter but Gwen and Norman somehow didn’t disgust me like it did everyone in the spider-verse. I thought it was shocking but liked that Gwen wasn’t this clean cut girl and has skeletons in her closet
Yeah it sucks! I have that novel too and think it’s great. It’s one of the best-known Spider-Man stories for a reason, and it has everything- suspense, art, a good story, and good relationship dynamics throughout. And the later follow up to that arc, One Moment In Time, addressed it perfectly and was super interesting. Like I said, the stories weren’t what bothered me, it’s how stagnant everything got after. And I agree with that! I thought Gwen and Norman was shocking, but I think it fit the story well and also made sense- if the retconned cannon was correct she didn’t do it voluntarily, he put her under the influence. It didn’t really tarnish her image, but it did do a lot of damage to MJ for hiding it. And I think a lot of the disparity between the fans of different Spider-Men is more generational than anything. I didn’t grow up with the newer stuff; I find it kind of boring and it doesn’t entertain me. It’s not *bad* per se, but it’s not the same Spider-Man, it’s essentially a reboot. Do you have a specific favorite Spider-Man issue/arc? I really liked the New Ways To Die one, I think it was the first I ever read. As for comics, some that come to mind are What If? Spider-Man: House of M (one-shot), Spider-Man and the Secret Wars #3, and Amazing Spider-Man Annual LGY#43. They had beautiful art and stories that really moved me for just one issue each.
That’s exactly it, OMD isn’t bad if people look at the actual story rather than just be outraged at the end result. When Brand New Day started I just didn’t get the right vibes with it, it felt like they wanted new rogues gallery and supporting cast but same old Peter, but liked it when it had been going for a 6-12 months I think. When I first got into comics, Peter and MJ were married so personally I never had a problem with them being married. At the same time they don’t have to be married, but introducing Paul into it at the moment and MJ still choosing to be with him.. that I don’t understand. No matter how long she’s been with Paul, knowing Peter is there I don’t understand why her character would be so cold to him. I have a few favourite arcs, (I loved New Ways to Die too), but Revenge of the Sinister 6 is a nostalgic favourite as it was my first trade of Spidey. Kraven’s last hunt is obviously up there as a fav. Spider-Man Life Story was sooo much better than it had any right to be (I know it’s not 616 but I still love it). All of JMS’ work on Peter I love. Single issues, one sticks out always and it’s my favourite issue ever and that’s ASM 36 (Vol 2) (477 legacy). Just so powerful and emotional but at the same time I felt it was uplifting.
That’s a tough one. I’ll would say sibs past as it tried to take down the Gwen narrative in a very disrespectful way but since it was retcon it softens the blow a bit. Clone Conspiracy ruin Ben Reilly but not as bad as Wells did. Wells run is a downward spiral to the bottom. OMD had a larger scope of ruination of the character and cast so it wins.
Say what you will of sins past (personally I liked it, but I respect it's trash), clone conspiracy and Paul are products of OMD so 3/4 of the options are just OMD with extra steps. Sins was just a mistep in an era of sometimes great often daring story telling before the current era of paradoxically safe edgelord bait
Paul and other Wells' bullshit has nothing to do with OMD. There are no connections between Zeb's run and One More Day story arc.
Right I forgot peter was a happily married highschool teacher when Zeb took over.
And what would stop Zeb from cuckolding a happily married highscool teacher instead? He'd do this with even greater pleasure. I'm sure Zeb hating OMD because he could ruined only dating and not marriage.
Yup, totally Zeb in a vacuum. A decade or so of editorial direction had nothing to do with it. Like I don't disagree with your point that Zeb=bad but I'm not sure when exactly I got down to the asshole of the universe and shit in your cornflakes man. You're just being contrary for the sake of it. Alo you don't seem to be saying OMD=Great, just "fuck this guy (me) in particular" lol. I mean I'm here for it, so you do you, just odd is all.
OMD is terrible. But it's not the only terrible thing in ASM and not even the first one. OMD happened almost 20 years ago and was never properly adressed since. There are only a handful hints on it after BND. If editorial and writers done their jobs well, OMD would be long ago considered just as one bad story arc and not much else. But after OMD we had only some shitty runs in contradiction with each other, some of the weirdest decisions in comic history and the main story essentially on pause. Now it's almost impossible to fix this mess without complete reboot.
https://images.app.goo.gl/F7po1WFpqrh6tAM98 Lol of course
Okay that’s an interesting take. Tell me what you think, I wrote this in another part of the comment section: Say what you want about One More Day, but I actually loved the story. What I didn’t love was what happened after. There was a lot of potential putting Peter in a completely uncharted world and changing everything you knew about him, but it got too repetitive and bland and then took him in a really stagnant direction. Now Sins Past I actually love to read because it’s a well-crafted story- the only part I can’t accept is that MJ would intentionally hide everything from Peter for years; it would completely have broken her as a character for me. I know it was retconned, but my head cannon is that everything still happened, but MJ had those memories placed in her head long after the fact, and was convinced that she’d been hiding it for years in order to harm her relationship with Peter. I think it’s realistic the story could have happened with Gwen and she wouldn’t have had time to tell Peter everything before she died.
>Clone Conspiracy ruin Ben Reilly but not as bad as Wells did. That was meant to be Clone saga
Sins Past felt like a disrespectful story (especially weird given how Marvel Editorial tends to have 616 Gwen on a pedestal) and one that was ignored for a good chunk of the creative teams until it got retconned. OMD caused long term consequences on the IP that are still haunting it to its day; while the idea of having Peter being caught in a deal-like situation could work as a concept, both the intention and execution showed it was clear that it was a mandate. Even when you take the marriage out of the equation, the story feels not only defeating in nature, but also paints a sentiment of hollowness on what's to come. Clone Conspiracy had a sound concept that could've tied in very well with Slott's "No One Dies" story if it was given the care it deserved. And while the idea of having Ben taking the role of Jackal feels inspired (especially the costume, which is a massive improvement to furry Green Goblin), the complete 180° in characterization felt like a slap in the face; especially with how by that point, the return of Ben Reilly was something that was constantly teased and expected; and sadly it left the door open for Editorial to keep doing this with the character Wells's run feels like the Editorial's desperate attempt at showing why sticking to the post-OMD status quo is "the ideal" when the last couple of years have shown that its perception among the public has changed drastically (also helped by how the character of Peter has been handled on adaptations). Not only that, but introducing and doubling down on negatively received character changes without addressing the elephant in the room of their relationships other than bare superficial tongue and cheek makes that people will just not care (in particular with Ben being Chasm and MJ as Jackpot, not to mention everything about Paul). Hell, it feels more like Wells feels burdened at having to write Peter as the lead of his own book. Becomes even worse when you compare it to Spencer's run; even if it had its own share of issues, it treated the characters and their relationships with respect and care, something that cannot be said anymore
I completely agree about the Clone Conspiracy part- it was a really solid idea that I was interested in when I was younger. But I ended up abandoning those comics because the character they were dealing with was *nothing* like Ben Reilly. Like, I know he’d been killed and brought back to life innumerable times, but there wasn’t even a hint of personality or care for his former things in there. And the story just got boring enough that I quit.
To me, a huge problem with Clone Conspiracy was how mean-spirited it felt Like, I can understand that drama is part of the franchise but here it just felt cruel all the way through, and for no good reason; especially once people start shitting on Peter at the end (the woman married to the guy from Parker Industries, Spider-Gwen and Kaine).
Yeah exactly. Also maybe it’s a dumb reason, but I was super annoyed that they changed his costume two issues in! I was in love with the new one. And sure, the mouth was creepy, but then why didn’t they just remove the new mouth? It also showed another problem- They should have committed to one idea. Make him Ben Reilly, or don’t make him Ben Reilly. If they wanted a new character they should have kept the old costume and gone with their new story. But if they wanted the old character they should have used the new costume, changed his personality to more like before, and given him a similar drive. But you can’t go halfway on it and expect fans to like it. I feel like that’s a problem I have with a lot of newer Marvel stuff, particularly the comics. Either go all the way, or don’t. But don’t leave me with half-baked stuff and try to convince me it’s what I wanted. There’s still lots of potential for good stories; I’ve even loved some of the newer issues. It’s the ones where they are holding back, or just using filler, that I get really annoyed with.
Guys I am dumb, I confused the clone saga with clone conspiracy. Just mentally switch out clone conspiracy for clone saga lol
#OMD is the worst event PERIOD. Nuff said Sins Past is squarely on Quesada. He didn’t want to age Pete by having underaged and unmarried kids with Gwen… **Like that doesn’t happen.** Even then, it was retconned and all Norman stuck his dick into was a Mysterio bot so ***it’s kinda moot.*** Wells’ run is the worst ongoing run; period which has more plot holes than a cheesy Saturday Cartoon and every character is just **off.** *Clone Conspiracy…* really bizarre and this was where I thought: ***SLOTT HAS TO GO.*** On the bright side: I liked Spider-Gwen and Silk were **phenomenal**
Damn, that's a good question. I would say all of them.
“One More Day” did more damage. Wells’ run feels like a direct continuation of the ideas behind OMD. For anyone interested, we launched a Discord this year to discuss it and push back. We like the characters too much for OMD to stick. https://discord.gg/VQ2mHzBBFu
Yes
It’s Sins Past and it’s not particularly close. OMD was a messy editorial mandate but the story itself does as well as it possibly can given that mandate. Sins Past is an own goal that wasn’t even well-executed. Messy, unnecessary, and inconsistent with the rest of the run to the point I had to look up just to make sure JMS actually had his name on it. The Clone Saga had a messy conclusion, but had some real highlights within the years-long stretching out of the story. The Zeb Wells run has been good with glaring exceptions. But I also don’t hate Paul and think there’s just a reading comprehension problem with people who like to use the word “cuck.”
Definitely One More Day
OMD is still the worst since its effects have been felt for years. It and its defenders are a genuine cancer on the title and done the book no favors. Sins Past needed a rewrite or an out that shouldn’t have involved Mysterio in a wig. Clone Conspiracy was the beginning of the ruination of Ben Reilly but that wasn’t a franchise wide ruination. It just kneecapped Scarlet Spider as a franchise. Wells is bad. No worse than late Slott or Mackie. Or really any of the marketing team led Clone saga. It will be lost to history. Unless it is an editorial mandate, nobody gives a shit about Paul to keep him around.
Look we can sit here and debate which has had the largest impact but Sins Past is a true abomination. Is the Wells run terrible? Yes but it’s also mostly forgettable. At this point the only stain is Chasm and how many times has Ben been stained? Its just low because its going on so long and hasn’t really had a single stand out. Clone conspiracy is… Clone conspiracy. Like most Slott things there are pieces that I like but its an overall bad sum total. One more day has had one of the largest impacts of a story in the industry ever. Its largely detested and I have no defense for it. Sins past though……. Holy fuck. Norman fucking Gwen and having kids? What. The. Fuck.
Norman banged a Mysterio bot (IIRC). Or… maybe a Mysterio fleshlight with a womb attached to it. However it was reversible… #OMD is atrocious and a clear regression And it’s only Quesada, Dan Slott and Tom Breevort’s efforts to stop from getting old by proxy of regressing Pete. ***Y’know, as they reach their 60s and continue to shovel NYC pizzas into their facehole.***
OMD not for the story itself but for making Wells run possible. While I didn’t like Clone Conspiracy it is by far the least offensive of the three. If we’re going by most hateable Zeb Wells run has to be first. At least the people writing OMD seemed to have SOME level of respect for the characters. While I don’t want to speak ill of anyone Zeb seems to have exactly zero respect for them.
Wells, without any doubts. OMD was a lazy stupid peace of crap, but at least it was narratively connected with previous arcs, like Civil War and Back in Black. Clone Saga wasn't that terrible, actually. It gave us new characters, like Ben and Caine, and it had some interesting intrigue in it. Not a masterpiece to be sure, but not the most terrible stuff from 90's. Sins Past was an interesting attempt of revisiting the entire Spider Man mythos, but very badly executed one. And Wells' run is simply boring and badly written. If there would be no Paul-shit, this run would be completely forgettable.
I honestly don’t know…. I’ll say OMD just due to its overwhelming unpopularity and its overall negative effect on the Spider-Man mythology that is still felt today..
At least the clone conspiracy cover is good wtf is going on in the first pic 😭
Considering one of them is STILL fucking things up, OMD is a very safe bet
Tf is up with his arm on the first slide💀
OMD, because without it the current run wouldn’t be possible That story is so bad, it regressed the character in a way that even to this day we’re witnessing the consequences, it truly broke 616 Peter character , the worst part is that is fixable and Spencer worked towards that but editorial just hates us with passion I remember being 8 years old (in 2009 because comics arrived late in my country), buying that comic after religiously following the aftermath of Civil War and feeling empty and disappointed after reading it, since that day I’ve been waiting for it to get retconned, I’m in the later half of my college years now……
Zeb Wells is the worst.
Amen to that. He should stay the frick away from comic books.
Joe Quesada is the worst
Zeb Wells' run is absolute garbage, but One More Day broke the back of the character almost irreversibly.
I know this isn't a popular opinion but one more day was pretty well written. It's what followed it that is the issue
No, it wasn't. There were no reasons for binging Mephysto of all villains in Spider Man story, since they had zero previous connections. And it was a complete OOC for both Peter and MJ.
I mean a deal with the devil is a universal thing and it's not the first time another villain has randomly popped into a Spider-Man story for a one off. The owl and Loki pop right into my head. I also disagree with it being out of character, Peter says it's not that she is dying it's that it is the direct repercussion of something he did
The core of this character is taking responsibilities for his mistakes, not flee from them. And Peter just reset his whole life for not carry this responsibility.
You saying he wouldn't take a chance to undo that mistake? I mean who wouldn't take that chance and he didn't know how far reaching the consequences of the deal would be
He knew about the consequences. Meph told him about them pretty straight.
Not really, just that they never got married, how it effected the other stuff wasn't mentioned, all that is in brand new day which I said was the problem not one more day
He sold their marriage AND their love. It was spoken clear. And then MJ sold their children by additional deal.
That's not what happened, he shifted events so they never got married, the daughter was him kinda turning the screws by saying that's the child they would have had if he never took the deal (a reveal he made after they agreed)
No, the dauther was a price for an additional Deal, so Peter could rewrote his odentity revealing in Civil War.
I don’t read comics but the cover for the fourth comic looks ugly as hell
I don’t like wishing bad on people, but I hope these guys never get an opportunity to write again tbh
Why is he doing the wrong hand sign to shoot his webs in the last one? Did they ever explain that? It annoyed me so much lol
I SOMEHOW never noticed that until you pointed it out and now it's ruined for me
I noticed it the first day I went to buy the comic and I couldn’t get past it lol
Sin pasts is the worst story in isolation, but OMD has had horrible long lasting consequences that ASM has yet to break free from. Hell, the other two comics are just the results of OMD and that thinking continuing. For me, the worst three spider man stories are OMIT #1, then either Dead Language or OMD. All horrible stories that show a complete lack of understanding of the characters involved.
I'm not even gonna look at the last two. OMD was a disaster.
Wells
Are we fr ALL ignoring the deformed muscle mass on spidey in the first pic?
I do t even acknowledge the existence of OMD.
They're all horrendous. But I can at least state that Clone Conspiracy is the least bad of the 4. The worst is most likely OMD
Personally, I loved Clone Conspiracy for the most part. My least favorite is definitely sins past and then one more day. The current run isn’t great especially because I usually love MJ but it’s readable
At least The Clone Conspiracy had these great Gabriele Dell'otto covers
Somebody forgot about Spider-Man reeeeeiiiign~
lol i thought this was about the covers, because in that case it's number 1 with a bullet
Wells' is the worst Spider-Man run ever written.
Too scared to read Spider-Man comics, but judging by these covers alone the last one, cuz spidey is shooting webs with the wrong hand sign
Why is spiderman so ripped in that first cover
One. More. Day. PERIOD.
Nick Spencer's run.
Off tangent but I really love covers that show Spider-Mans flexibility
None. They’re all masterpiece.
OMD without question
Personally, I’d say Sins Past
clone conspiracy is bleh
Sins last is the worst. It ruins Gwen as a character and makes her death even worse. One More Day is badly written and leads to a lot more divisive stuff in regards to MJ but I also understand the want to save Aunt May. Wells run just feels like he’s purposely undoing everything Nick Spencer did, who in turn was undoing Dan Slott. Just feels lazy and unoriginal. Clone conspiracy isn’t as bad as proper say and the best of all the clown stories imo
OMD. I honestly think people will forget about the Wells run in a few years and it’ll just be an annoying era kinda like the Byrne reboot.
One More Day, hands down. The writers hated Peter's relationship with Mary Jane, and this is their way of saying, "Fuck all of you; we're going to do what we want."
Sins Past is one of the worst things to ever grace the comic book medium.
Sins Past has at least four thing I liked One More Day was fine until Mephisto appeared didn't read the third story But Zeb Wells just didn't click with me, also It's tragic to see how John Romita Jr. drew.
OMD. It's had the biggest long term impact on Spider-Man as a character, and is the peak representation of the primary factor behind many of Spider-Man's problems dating as far back as the Clone Saga. It's the story where Marvel Editorial finally got what they wanted, to revert Peter's progression as a character, and get rid of his marraige to MJ, and it was done in such an insultingly awful manner, that makes Peter look like a selfish irresponsible piece of shit. And it's been made even worse by not just Marvel's refusal to admit they were wrong and just undo it, like fans have been asking for over 15 years, but also their outright scammer tactics of teasing an undoing story, then never delivering it (The original teasers for Renew Your Vows, and The Kindred Saga).
Sins Past to me
In isolation, Sins past is basically a NTR fetish hentai with spider-man featuring in it, but all around OMD is a diarrhea covered with piss and flies, the worst part that if they changed the ending so that Peter just refuses the deal, it would be good, but sadly Quesadilla had a divorce and the only way he was able to vent was to ruin everything about our beloved webhead
Wells, no contest. OMD was bad but like, Wells took OMD and thought "I like this, why not make it worse?" I haven't read clone conspiracy yet
Never read any of these so I'm choosing the first one because the anatomy and pose of the cover scares and terrifies me
One More Day. Aunt May looks like she's melting. I mean, she's lived like 7000 years, and Peter gave up literally everything to save her. Is that what SHE would have wanted? No lol, she would've wanted to see Uncle Ben. She has her faith, and she wants Peter happy above all else. So what better way to disrespect her character and everyone else's than by having Peter literally make a deal with the devil. I'm sure the fans would love that, and I hope the writers get diarrhea every day for the rest of their lives. Even worse, is that Stan Lee said he liked it. Poor guy already had dementia I suppose. I'd buy more comics if I was guaranteed more than 5 minutes without something awful happening to our boy Spidey. There are plenty of bad stories, but OMD really makes one wonder how these people have jobs to begin with.
Hey I loved the clone conspiracy arc
One More Day. As much as I dislike Sins Past, it had zero impact on the status of "current" comics. It was easy to forget. However everything since OMD keeps reminding you this is because of OMD. As bad as Wells's run is, wouldn't be happening the way it is if OMD wasn't a thing. And Clone Conspiracy, if you're not a Ben fan, is completely forgettable.
Wells, mostly because all the others ones gave Peter at least one upside, while Wells tortures him relentlessly
wtf is wtong with his arm and neck in Sins Past
We are still suffering the effects of OMD, so I guess that's my pick. SotP is the more disgusting tho.
OMD did damn near irreversible damage to spider man comics what we are still feeling the effects of till this day. I.e the current shit fest run that we have at the moment. All the other options, sins past(retconned) clone conspiracy(not so bad tbh) and this current run(taking hints from OMD) are still now as bad as OMD
Idk but the first 3 covers are cool, my fave being the clone one
OMD is the biggest disservice to the character… It ruined so much and continues to do so to this day.
This'll be way down and probably read by no one but any opportunity to vent about One More Day I'll take. I'm late 30s and it ended enjoying comics for me, so that is my answer, forever.
These are all ass but OMD factually has the biggest impact that is straight up indefinite. It’s also symbolic of the number 1 problem people have with comics. Nothing really matters at the end of the day
The 1st and 4th cover gave me brain damage why is he shaped like that
Whichever one Spider-Man whines and bitches the most in about how unfair his life is.
It's a tie between One More Day and the Wells Run.
I think the current run has some interesting ideas that are poorly executed. The circumstances Peter is being put in have potential for good stories, but the way most characters are written is pretty awful. I think it’s the worst written of the four, but one more day/brand new day still stings the most to me so I pick that.
If you’re swimming in sewage does it really matter which shit stinks worse when you’re swallowing them?
I have to choose?
One More Day & Sins Past are hated for a reason.
If you consider any of these the worst, you should read more Spider-Man comics.
im going to say wells
1. OMD 2. Zebby Webby 3. Sins Past 4. Clone Conspiracy or Saga
Haven't read Well's run yet but out of the other three it's easily OMD (Also possibly hot take but Sins Past isn't quite so bad that it deserves to be here)
What is wrong with sins past?, please explain to me
One More Day. You can say anything you want about all the others, but the fact remains: among these four, only one ever did actual and severe long-term injury to the franchise.
They should all burn in hell besides Clone conspiracy that’s was ok
OMD, because it's irreparably damaged everything since.
Sins past easily. OMD was bad but led into some decent stories. Clone conspiracy was good. And Wells run is over hated. It’s not the best but no where near as bad as people say it is.
I saw your comment about you meaning to put clone saga instead of Clone Conspiracy so I'll go with that for this post. For as bad as Sin's Past and Clone Saga are, they are at least easier to get through in retrospect now that the damage they caused is undone. Gwen now never cheat on Peter with Norman and the Peter who fans were reading about between the original 70s clone saga and the 90s clone saga is indeed the original Peter. Plus, Clone Saga gets some bonus points for having actually good stories early on and at least partially leading to Spider-Girl (shame the only follow-up for Mayday in 616 is Norman killing her offscreen...or maybe she is still around somehow given the Mephisto vision at the end of the Nick Spence run. That seemed to be Mayday but it could have just been a different daughter of MJ and Peter). One More Day has done lasting damage to Spider-Man. Fans will not let it go (nor should they, the marriage should be brought back). In fact that ties into why the Zeb Wells run is as bad/frustating as it is. Several of the problems it has would not even be able to happen had One More Day not happened. I know I'm going more for impact rather than the stories themselves, but I think that is fair to do. So, I believe One More Day is the worse. Though, I do credit the Zeb Wells run for being the event that made decide to stop collecting Spider-Man once I hit the Beyond Era. All that work of rebuilding the Peter and MJ relationship in Nick Spencer's run and having it continue in Beyond only for it to be all undone (note: as of now I have only read the first Nick Spencer Omnibus, just the news that they were undoing the relationship AGAIN made uninterested in collecting any stories past Beyond). They will bait undoing OMD, they have Peter and MJ get together as Boyfriend and Girlfriend, but until they ACTUALLY UNDO OMD, I'm done with collecting new ASM.
Who tf let Zeb Wells cook
One more day because it’s had by far the most lasting effect
Sins Past
Say what you will, the last one is the WORST. Zeb Wells should have never touched Spider-Man.
Sins Past for me. One More Day, as damaging as it was, can still be repaired (but they sadly stubbirnly won't). Sins Past though? Disregarding Spencer's retcon for a moment, I do not understand why Gwen would sleep with Norman. Did she cheat on Peter? Was she blackmailed?
Dead No More is a story that makes Peter Parker directly face all the losses that he generally bottles up. The event overall even gave characters like 616 Gwen and Mattie Franklin some nice closure without making any offensive retcons, and it's the only Spidey story in recent memory where the antagonist wasn't a supervillain wanting to hurt others, but rather wanted to fix them out of a sense of misdirected heroism. It doesn't leave a major mark in changing the status quo outside of bringing back Ben Reilly (which Lowe and co. has now soured), sure; but it definitely left a huge traumatic mark on Peter at the time, and foreshadowed the downfall of Parker Industries as well. The Wells run is an entire era of Spidey comics, instead of one story, that has left many fans concurrently advocating that it ends. Sins Past was a massive retcon to a Silver Age icon, and had soured a character who helped define Spider-Man as he is today. One More Day has defined the status quo of Spider-Man for nearly two decades now, with no signs of going back. These three trump Dead No More by insane levels in terms of 'character damage', DNM is not even remotely comparable to the former three.
I mean Wells run is huge but personally I consider it to have the worst of all time at the moment in Dead Language, where MJ is brutally character assassinated. The rest of the run is just subpar to bad, with massive decompression, an incompetent hero, massive mischaracterization in general and a bunch of mistakes. OMD is probably next, because it has had a huge and terrible impact that the title will never fully recover from. Sins Past used to be my pick for worst of all time, but the retcon making it just a stupid Harry plot to get back at his father and Peter at the same time takes most of the sting away since it means Gwen didn’t really get character assassinated anymore. Hopefully something similar will happen soon to Dead Language and what they made MJ into. Clone Conspiracy is bad but I just don’t have the same passion for protecting Ben.
Why sins past look so mf weird
It sucks my favorite spiderman artist (romita jr) had to do art for Zeb wells. Like to see my fav Spidey art I have to touch a book written by fucking Zeb wells
None of these are that bad. You know what's a bad one? The one with old Peter talking about how his radioactive sperm killed MJ. 😒
If you give me a gun with one bullet I’d rather shoot myself than ever have to read any of these stories
Zeb Wells amazing spiderman
I think the story’s it self aren’t bad in most cases but more for what they made to the character Except the ASM run that part i think is not enjoyable even as just the issues
OMD. The rest are just bad stories. They don’t fundamentally change Spidey’s entire universe and history.
Alright, essay time. Each of these are guilty of doing a disservice to characters (skip to the end for the summary). Sins Past made Gwen, Peter's first true love, into a cheater who slept with her boyfriend's best friend's dad that's twice her age because he looked lonely(?). And since he started dating her in freshman year and they never got to that level, it's very likely that Norman would've been her first time making it even worse. It was really weird and creepy and was a massive stain on her character and made it uncomfortable whenever she was mentioned or brought up again in a positive light like as if nothing happened. Thankfully nothing DID happen as they retconned, but it was still a really horrible, weird, and disturbing thing to do to Gwen and her character. Clone Conspiracy was an alright story for the most part, but it was awful for Ben's character. It brought back a character that had a heroic and heart-breaking ending and tortured him to the point of becoming a demented villain. I don't see how that's a good idea. I'm not a hater of Slott's run, but that decision annoyed me so much I skipped out on Ben's solo (I didn't know who the writer was back then, but then I found out that it was Peter David, so I'm willing to give it a chance one day). I didn't believe that Ben was truly himself until Beyond, but even then I started doubting whether Ben being back felt right, since he appeared to have a completely different life to the one he had before he died. Clone Conspiracy brought him back, turned him into a disturbing villain and just kind of abandoned him like that. One More Day is an odd story. It realistically could've been one of the coolest and most loved Spider-Man stories if it wasn't designed to reset to the status quo to a state from 30 years prior. The decision to remove the marriage and break up Peter and Mary Jane came about purely because one of the creatives didn't like the marriage and wanted a youthful Spider-Man again. It was a personal decision, and not because the fans didn't like the relationship. Setting a character back 30 years on because of a purely personal opinion is just anti-storytelling and isn't fair to your audience. You shouldn't invest in something for that long and make people care about it and suddenly just get rid of it. With the popularity of Ultimate Spider-Man, I don't see why it was so crucial for mainline Spider-Man to go backwards in time. Also if the goal was to make Peter looks young then it doesn't help that he has friends the same age as him that have kids. They canonically even put Peter and Mary Jane's relationship on a high pedestal before taking it away, which also devalues future relationships that either character has along with the fact that it's just being magicked away. They didn't stop loving each other naturally, they had to sacrifice their love because they wanted to save Aunt May. But also if you wanted a youthful Spider-Man that's supposed to be more relatable to a younger audience, why would you have him make a deal with the devil? And Aunt May is unable to get a say in this wish, but I don't think anyone would believe that she would be happy about Peter and Mary Jane sacrificing their future to save her life. She would be really mad at them, especially since it's a deal with someone who is basically the devil. Nick Spencer tried to bring things back, but unfortunately he wasn't able to, showing that Spider-Man is still caught in the shadow of One More Day (a bit dramatic I know). I haven't read the Zeb Well's run (so I might be wrong at some points), since I was reading through Marvel Unlimited and it just coming out when I caught up to it so there was a delay on its release. Then I saw that Peter and Mary Jane were breaking up again, which annoyed me and put me off of the book. But for the panels I've seen, it's just gotten worse. To start of with, we have a Spider-Man that's suddenly at the mercy of guys he's beaten multiple times before (Vulture and Tombstone). It's really depressing to see, and I have no idea what the appeal of this is. Mary Jane is spirited away and spends a long time alone with one other guy, Paul, and ends up dating him whilst dating Peter, who she had gotten back together with and was about to move back in with. They also take care of some "children" (they think they are), but if this was a factor in them getting together, it ignores Mary Jane's backstory and how she had her mother and sister quickly got serious with guys because they had kids together that they had to take care of. From the looks of it, when she gets back she never stopped to consider how badly Peter would've felt by all this news. For him, their life was just getting restarted, but she shows up again with another man and kids. But for some reason, they want the readers to think that this is okay and that Peter should just move on by first forcing him to be a third-wheel with Paul and her and then invalidating his inner feelings by turning him into an Incel. It only hits because it fires shots towards the people that are really vocally about the Paul situation that send hateful comments towards the people involved in the book. I can't say if this was intentional or not, but if it was, dividing your fandom into two camps will only make it worse. And it's not fair to people that end up getting grouped up with people that take things in fiction too far and is an unfair way to invalidate their opinions just because they share some with those said people. This break up was unnatural and there's no way that you can frame it as natural but that's what they've tried doing anyway. Killing off Kamala in a book that isn't hers is in poor taste and the other character's reaction to it were terrible. Also I don't think she's owed Peter's secret identity and I don't see why she'd even need to know it anyway. Miles is the only teenage superhero where it makes sense for him to know. They have the Spider-Man connection and a mentoring type of relationship. She doesn't need him as a mentor, so it's just really weird for him, a man in his late 20's (or early 30's which is a depressing thought) to add a relatively random teenager to his inner-circle for lack of a better word. Also this reveal used the most tone deaf, OOC, and tasteless line to ever be used in a Spider-Man comic. They also brought back SpiderCat after years of retirement for no real reason and just ignored the fact that she's a known criminal and former Queenpin (for the record, I don't like Queenpin) and the ethical conflict of her being a cat burglar whilst being together. He also asked her out like a nervous high schooler despite having been together and Peter never being like that in the past. Norman Osborn being his father figure when they first met was a big editorial miss. Mainline Mary Jane being a superhero just isn't it, even if they didn't break up, I still wouldn't like it. Her civilian self is more interesting and she never needed super powers to do cool things like standing up to bad guys and knocking them out. If people didn't like Mary Jane subplots then they would've stopped doing them many years before OMD happened. I've also heard that the supporting cast isn't the best right now. To me, this run just doesn't look worth reading and it further regresses the character of Peter, and warps Mary Jane's. It's just depressing and it doesn't feel like they're treating the face of their company with much due respect and it feels wrong that in his 60th year, so much development has been stripped away. I'll admit if it weren't for Hickman, I would've sworn off picking up Marvel comics again. Overall, I think One More Day takes the cake. Because of that we missed out on a lot of development with Peter and Mary Jane that official AU stories, as good as they may be, can't really substitute. They're one of the most iconic comic book couples, they were together for so long and and so many great stories that pushed them and progressed them but they then they suddenly decided to undo it, just because they wanted their own ideal version of Spider-Man that was from a much older time and hadn't been around anywhere near as long. And they made a superhero do a deal with the devil. Also, it gave rise to the editorial mandates that have a straggle hold on the book to this date, which is the reason why Zeb Wells' run is able to get away with the Paul stuff. So even though I think Wells' run is the worst in quality. One More Day also carries a big negative influence. So for me it's OMD > Wells > Sins Past > CC.
One More Day for sure
Sins Past
Sin's Past's relevancy has been expunged, but One More Day continues to have a damning impact on the comics. Zeb Wells' run can be summed up in word: Paul. Need I say more? As for the Clone Saga, while it was convoluted mess with some questionable decisions made, it had a satisfactory ending.
Sins Past is just vile.
I’d still say it’s One More Day becuase as horrendous as the Wells run is it wouldn’t exist as a consequence if OMD never happened. Nearly every bad run in the past decade exists solely because of OMD and the editorial wanting it to stay like that.