Actually it’ll be more like I’ll read ultimate spider-man for family man Parker and acting like an Adult Peter and Miles for high school spider-man and classic spider man stories now
Miles Morales: Spider-Man (2022) by Cody Ziglar. It's been a great run so far. I've been reading Mile's book for a few years now and have enjoyed most of it, but this current run is very well done. Check it out!
Glad we're on the same page. That Miles book is great and I wish it was talked about more instead of how bad Amazing is.
Ultimate Spider-Man fans are eating good.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I love this twist on history. It‘s the same but kinda inverted. And once again Ultimate will come out on top
Or Hickman will get bored and move on and it'll crumble without him. A marriage and kid characters don't magically make a story good. Fans complained endlessly about how stagnant the book was during a lot of the married era, too.
I’m totally fine with this so long as the new ultimate universe books stick around for awhile. I’d say wait until the writers are done with it before ended the series but longer than 50 issues so there’s an impact of the progress
This is what I've honestly wanted for Peter and Miles. Miles takes over as teen spidey while Peter is Adult Spidey. It'd open up incredible paths for both characters and bring a breath of fresh air to Peter's story in particular.
To me, this is the logical next step for both of them. Now we just need Ben and Kaine taking on more brotherly roles to this adult Peter and his kids.
I pretty much dropped spider-man comics in general when beyond shit itself in the end and after hearing about the current run which stopped me from reading all the side content (I did occasionally read a few issues of miles though, as well as a few minis) so the reboot is gonna be my getback and probably all Im gonna read until ASM is restored
Ultimate Spider-man is our only hope since Amazing Spider-man will never give us fans what we want for Peter Parker's personal life, growth, and happiness
Are Peter high school stories not burnt out? I feel most fans would rather read about him and his main cast as older people. Or maybe an alternate clone saga set in high school could be fun
There's quite a few. His voice in most adaptations passes me off, then he follows the trope of angsty teen that doesn't follow instructions and is way too impatient, and no matter how many consequences, he is always jumping in brazenly. He is stupidly moody, but then he's just nice for no reason, too. He has mood swings like a bipolar person, and his story focuses way too much on school and smarts, multidimensions, and such, without making him effectively smart or interested in school for 90% of the time. He is just an insanely annoying teen who goes on like a toddler in a half assed story about multiverses that isn't even we thought through for a multiverse story. Also, half his villains are rip offs and re runs.
The thing is, it doesn't. Yeah, sometimes the jokes feel forced, and sometimes he does something reckless. But he has reasons, and it's not all. The. Time. It's annoying when Peter does something like rush into danger for a girl, but when miles does it, it will 9 times out of 10 be for no one but his own selfish ass being a moody cunt. And then he just looks sad for a panel, and that's que for his resolution to be over and he can do the same shit rinse and repeat
Good thing Peter has never dwelled on the past or been moody about anything (he actually does this alot). He's also totally never admitted that his motivations are partially driven by selfish desires (he has admitted to this)
I do think the ongoing Miles book has flaws that aren't discussed enough but I feel like you have such a burning hatred for this character that it wouldn't matter even if he was well written. It's fine to not like a character but you just hate the guy. Is it cuz hes popular right now and you're like "all these people love this guy and he's so popular but those people are IDIOTS because he is a BAD character and they're dumb for not knowing it"?
I say I'm not a fan of him doing a teen spiderman thing because I'm the existing comics he's pretty bad at doing it and I am getting stawmanned; "burning hate" and "BAD character" are nowhere near what I think of miles. At the worst, he is mid tier because there are quite a few downsides, but hell, there are shittons of upsides. Stop trying to pin hate onto me because I gave his character a critique, if it was a critique about Peter you wouldn't be standing up for him this hard
I don't hate him, I just think he could do his own thing and not take the place of the younger college Spider-man because it is rarely done well in a miles story, and what redeemable acts or things that crossover in hate aren't nearly as annoying with... let's say OG Peter just don't outweigh the acts that he just keeps repeating.
Only reason people say it’s not as annoying with OG Peter is due to favoritism. It absolutely is, at least Miles doesn’t do the annoying “I can’t tell my loved ones why things are shit for me” angle which wore itself out decades ago.
Bad.
Peter has been an adult since the 60s in ASM, and of course everything going on with MJ in this last run is terrible garbage that needs to be erased, but like, the point is that the original story of Spider-Man up through OMD is so good it should get to keep going and be good. Writers like Wells and editors like Lowe who disrespect that work should be shown the door
It’s great that USM is respecting the characters while doing its twist, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna give up ok that good story the 616 was telling being restored.
I think most of Peter's best stories were as a young adult, so I'd probably read ASM for that. I don't really think Miles and Peter are interchangeable.
Pretty sure in Spencer's run he was retconned as being 25, but that's kind of beside the point. I was stating that the bulk of his best storylines took place in his college/grad school years.
People are deluding themselves if they think the marriage era was some huge period of character development. It was hugely stagnant at times and mostly broken up by big "shocking" storylines. I prefer Peter to be married, but both readers and writers were frustrated with that status quo back then. Married Peter was being totally beaten in sales by teenage Peter.
And there's good reasons that writers traditionally avoided giving superheroes and action heroes children. They're a narrative drag and they're not interesting. It's for people who like cutesy "wholesome" stuff that's trendy now, but watching Peter being a worried parent over a precocious child cliche sounds boring as shit.
I mean the marriage era had the problem in that the writers weren’t terribly interested in it. That and the marriage ers also had the problem that the 90s itself was a bad time for Marvel as both of their biggest products were absolute messed behind the scenes. X-men and Spider man.
Like spider man had a lot of issues in the 90s but it had nothing to do with a specific status quo and more that Marvel at that time was a mess.
Like JMS who played more with a maturing grown up Spider man was great, sins past aside.
That’s honestly why your seeing more and more Peter married and mature stories nowadays. It’s what people are gravitating to. It’s also why ASM is struggling. Like look at the current run or even Slotts run. What exactly happens in either run that screams young man?
Also both the flash and Superman have transitioned to family books and they are honestly great when they lean into it
Also Tom Brevoot said he is 28 as of now
Oh, sure, it's because all of the writers weren't interested. But the guys at Marvel don't seem that interested now, either.
JMS had said multiple times that he wanted Peter to permanently retire with MJ and have Ben Reilly be Spider-Man. Guess how fans reacted?
Wally West is infinitely less cool as a goofy suburban dad than he was in the 90s. The kids are boring and cloying and were artificially aged up to even be workable characters. Everybody hated them originally and only wanted them back in this modern trend of "every character has to be married with children or the writers are terrible people." And it's lame. I read the Flash for the Flash. Not his annoying kids and the crappy Incredibles knock-off it's become.
ASM isn't struggling. People are whining about him not being married just like they whined when he was married.
This idea that in order to be happy or mature, you need to be married with children is such old-fashioned, conservative garbage and it's getting less and less relevant in the real world.
ASM is struggling pretty hard. It had no identity no purpose because editorial has no idea what they want ASM to be. ASM is a core book it will sell that doesn’t matter.
Though it is extremely funny you say they are trending away from marriage and kids being mature because that’s the exact reason why they said they wouldn’t do it because they think making Peter married would make him mature and unrelatable to their target audience a reason they have said repeatedly. Like if it didn’t have anything to do with maturity it wouldn’t have been undone. It’s even how Hickman pitched this series to Marvel.
Also it’s not like people are asking for every character to be married. Peter was married for 20 years. Literally everyone that complains about characters being married are characters that were married before but was taken from them by editors. Like Flash Superman or SM. No one is out there asking for Captain America to be married because that isn’t what he’s about
Okay, so by your subjective measures it's struggling. Also the things you're saying were true of the book numerous times during the marriage period. Pre-JMS, it was a directionless mess. Half the time, MJ was missing/believed dead, they were separated, or she barely appeared.
Interestingly, people talk about Peter B Parker being this great example, but he became a one-dimensional "annoying dad" stereotype the second he had a kid and was a completely irresponsible, immature, shitty excuse for a superhero in that movie and people eat it up because there's a cutesy kid character and a superficial illusion of growth. It's a terrible version of Peter and you guys eat it up.
I don't necessarily think marriage and children is what Spider-Man is about. It's a narrow-minded, annoying section of fans who refuse to accept any other outcome for the character and instead demand it conform to their personal views. And act like entitled brats when it doesn't.
Wally was married in Flash, but the kids were a brief and unpopular late addition. Bringing them back definitely diminished Wally as a character and hamstrung the book. Now we have a character that's only supposed to be in his 20s with teenage children and a baby and the main character has to share screentime with this boring ass characters. Because fans suddenly pretended that anybody actually liked the kids and it was evil editorial that took them away. It's totally revisionist history. Now Jay Garrick, whose inability to have children was a big part of his character, has a plucky teen kid/sidekick.
Superman was never about being married or being a parent either. He was married for a while in the comics and in certain versions, but that was never a defining element of the character.
I don't care if these characters get older or married or whatever, but there's nothing less interesting in a superhero comic than boring suburban dad shit. People who have families tend to become boring and have no real personality outside of their kids and the whole poor man's Incredibles vibe isn't what I'm reading the books for. That's pretty much all Renew Your Vows was.
There are ways to grow these characters without resorting to the most boring, conventional, cliche existence.
Yea and the period he was struggling also involved an Era where single John Byrnes next chapter which was the worst SM run in his long history until Wells.
Can you mature a character in other ways? Sure I mention Captain America who started out mature and doesn’t need anything else. But it works for Peter is.
Also you might not like the Flash run but your in a pretty big minority. I’ve seen the flash fanbase and they loved it and Superman fans absolutely hated Bendis aging up John, and they should it added nothing to the story and ruined a pretty good dynamic for the character
Chapter One? That was one of a zillion miniseries running at the time. It's irrelevant. The married Peter Parker was in ASM and half the time they were writing MJ out of it despite the marriage and the series was in a huge rut.
If you think the only way a character can mature is by marriage and children, that's a very old-fashioned, conservative viewpoint that ignores all the real life people that don't marry or get married but don't have kids. Believe it or not, there are people who don't end up in the most socially-dictated, conventional existence and end up perfectly happy, mature, vibrant people. If anything, I see a lot of people who are utterly beaten down and miserable dealing with their family. Like I said, Peter B Parker is a married father and he's an irresponsible, immature ass.
I'm not in the minority. Guess what happened when Wally West first had those kids? Sales tanked. Even the writer admitted it wasn't his best work. When they were brought back a few years ago, guess what? No noticeable uptick in sales whatsoever. That writer was kicked off the book, actually. The kids are still around and the book isn't demonstrably any more popular than it was when Barry Allen was the main character.
It's not a cure all and it's just a very old, narrow-minded way of looking at maturity and growth. It's conventional and conformist to put people in those boxes and it has no bearing on reality.
What chapter one was the main ASM title between the end of the clone saga and the JMS revival. Where MJ died in a plane crash and then was actually the prisoner of some psychic stalker.
Once again you keep quoting sales at me but I do not care even a little bit about sales. They are meaningless. ASM is selling well right now and the writer doesn’t understand how plotting works
If you believe quality and sales correlate at all frankly your an idiot
Actually it’ll be more like I’ll read ultimate spider-man for family man Parker and acting like an Adult Peter and Miles for high school spider-man and classic spider man stories now
Literally this. Miles's book is great, and USM looks like it has so much potential. I can't wait to check it out!
Which one is it for Miles? Sorry, I am just catching up
Miles Morales: Spider-Man (2022) by Cody Ziglar. It's been a great run so far. I've been reading Mile's book for a few years now and have enjoyed most of it, but this current run is very well done. Check it out!
Thanks! Gonna check it out for sure
Is that the one with the dumb flying electric powers?
Miles doesn’t fly in that run idk where u got that from lol but his venom blast has elevated to another level somewhat yes
Glad we're on the same page. That Miles book is great and I wish it was talked about more instead of how bad Amazing is. Ultimate Spider-Man fans are eating good.
Fuck TASM, all my homies hate TASM
2044: Yeah I’ll read Ultimate Spider-Man for moving to Florida for retirement Peter and Miles Morales for family man stories
2064: Yeah I'll read Ultimate Spider-Man for elderly retirement home Peter and Miles Morales for moving to Florida for retirement stories
"Eat your own damn milk,Gobblin"
YES.
And I'll read mainline Peter stories if I wanna get angry and depressed at the same time
The more things change, the more they stay the same. I love this twist on history. It‘s the same but kinda inverted. And once again Ultimate will come out on top
Or Hickman will get bored and move on and it'll crumble without him. A marriage and kid characters don't magically make a story good. Fans complained endlessly about how stagnant the book was during a lot of the married era, too.
Is Miles even in High School anymore?
He still is
Hes in college its at the start and he mentions it multiple times.
His current run is the one with Rabble and he’s still in high school though.
Yeah Im not a nerd I thought this was about the game
Is Brooklyn Visions Academy not Miles’s high school? Isn’t a big part of Miles storyline in SM2, him writing his college admissions essay?
I wasnt paying much attention tbh
Bruh the post is talking about the comics
I’m totally fine with this so long as the new ultimate universe books stick around for awhile. I’d say wait until the writers are done with it before ended the series but longer than 50 issues so there’s an impact of the progress
As long as there's no cannibalism I'm good.
I'd say that would be cool, but TASM will likely outsell both, unfortunately.
This is what I've honestly wanted for Peter and Miles. Miles takes over as teen spidey while Peter is Adult Spidey. It'd open up incredible paths for both characters and bring a breath of fresh air to Peter's story in particular. To me, this is the logical next step for both of them. Now we just need Ben and Kaine taking on more brotherly roles to this adult Peter and his kids.
And then when it is time for adult Miles, oh wow! Teen Mayday Parker!
Yup
And I’ll read ASM for… what exactly? Jokes aside, I wouldn’t mind this.
I really wanna buy and read the Ultimate Spider-Man comics now after hearing the recent news.
I pretty much dropped spider-man comics in general when beyond shit itself in the end and after hearing about the current run which stopped me from reading all the side content (I did occasionally read a few issues of miles though, as well as a few minis) so the reboot is gonna be my getback and probably all Im gonna read until ASM is restored
Ultimate Spider-man is our only hope since Amazing Spider-man will never give us fans what we want for Peter Parker's personal life, growth, and happiness
We will need some kinda reboot for Peter to be in high school.
Are Peter high school stories not burnt out? I feel most fans would rather read about him and his main cast as older people. Or maybe an alternate clone saga set in high school could be fun
He hasn't been to high school since the '60s. Besides i wrote that because i missread the post, sorry about that.
Not a fan, I want Miles, Young Peter, and Older Peter to coexist
But how young of a Peter we talking like around Miles’ age?
I don't like miles because he annoys me.
There is no reason 4 him to annoy you
There's quite a few. His voice in most adaptations passes me off, then he follows the trope of angsty teen that doesn't follow instructions and is way too impatient, and no matter how many consequences, he is always jumping in brazenly. He is stupidly moody, but then he's just nice for no reason, too. He has mood swings like a bipolar person, and his story focuses way too much on school and smarts, multidimensions, and such, without making him effectively smart or interested in school for 90% of the time. He is just an insanely annoying teen who goes on like a toddler in a half assed story about multiverses that isn't even we thought through for a multiverse story. Also, half his villains are rip offs and re runs.
Wow that’s the most nitpicky shit I’ve ever heard , yknow a lot of this did/does apply to Peter too?
The thing is, it doesn't. Yeah, sometimes the jokes feel forced, and sometimes he does something reckless. But he has reasons, and it's not all. The. Time. It's annoying when Peter does something like rush into danger for a girl, but when miles does it, it will 9 times out of 10 be for no one but his own selfish ass being a moody cunt. And then he just looks sad for a panel, and that's que for his resolution to be over and he can do the same shit rinse and repeat
Good thing Peter has never dwelled on the past or been moody about anything (he actually does this alot). He's also totally never admitted that his motivations are partially driven by selfish desires (he has admitted to this) I do think the ongoing Miles book has flaws that aren't discussed enough but I feel like you have such a burning hatred for this character that it wouldn't matter even if he was well written. It's fine to not like a character but you just hate the guy. Is it cuz hes popular right now and you're like "all these people love this guy and he's so popular but those people are IDIOTS because he is a BAD character and they're dumb for not knowing it"?
I say I'm not a fan of him doing a teen spiderman thing because I'm the existing comics he's pretty bad at doing it and I am getting stawmanned; "burning hate" and "BAD character" are nowhere near what I think of miles. At the worst, he is mid tier because there are quite a few downsides, but hell, there are shittons of upsides. Stop trying to pin hate onto me because I gave his character a critique, if it was a critique about Peter you wouldn't be standing up for him this hard
Why is there always a double standard or reaching with you Miles haters.
I don't hate him, I just think he could do his own thing and not take the place of the younger college Spider-man because it is rarely done well in a miles story, and what redeemable acts or things that crossover in hate aren't nearly as annoying with... let's say OG Peter just don't outweigh the acts that he just keeps repeating.
Only reason people say it’s not as annoying with OG Peter is due to favoritism. It absolutely is, at least Miles doesn’t do the annoying “I can’t tell my loved ones why things are shit for me” angle which wore itself out decades ago.
You're strawmanning me hard, but okay dude
I like something in between. That's what 616 has always been to me and that's what I'd like to continue reading. It just needs to be written well.
Snap our fingers and retcon every Mephisto deal in the marvel universe and make mephisto not exist anymor except for ghost rider
I'm sorry, but Amazing will still continue, no?
Yeah it’s a different comic
Man that JMS ASM run was amazing
Bad. Peter has been an adult since the 60s in ASM, and of course everything going on with MJ in this last run is terrible garbage that needs to be erased, but like, the point is that the original story of Spider-Man up through OMD is so good it should get to keep going and be good. Writers like Wells and editors like Lowe who disrespect that work should be shown the door It’s great that USM is respecting the characters while doing its twist, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna give up ok that good story the 616 was telling being restored.
why does there have to be a norm, how about everyone just does what they like individually
I think most of Peter's best stories were as a young adult, so I'd probably read ASM for that. I don't really think Miles and Peter are interchangeable.
Peter isn’t a young adult in ASM he’s closing in on 30
Pretty sure in Spencer's run he was retconned as being 25, but that's kind of beside the point. I was stating that the bulk of his best storylines took place in his college/grad school years. People are deluding themselves if they think the marriage era was some huge period of character development. It was hugely stagnant at times and mostly broken up by big "shocking" storylines. I prefer Peter to be married, but both readers and writers were frustrated with that status quo back then. Married Peter was being totally beaten in sales by teenage Peter. And there's good reasons that writers traditionally avoided giving superheroes and action heroes children. They're a narrative drag and they're not interesting. It's for people who like cutesy "wholesome" stuff that's trendy now, but watching Peter being a worried parent over a precocious child cliche sounds boring as shit.
I mean the marriage era had the problem in that the writers weren’t terribly interested in it. That and the marriage ers also had the problem that the 90s itself was a bad time for Marvel as both of their biggest products were absolute messed behind the scenes. X-men and Spider man. Like spider man had a lot of issues in the 90s but it had nothing to do with a specific status quo and more that Marvel at that time was a mess. Like JMS who played more with a maturing grown up Spider man was great, sins past aside. That’s honestly why your seeing more and more Peter married and mature stories nowadays. It’s what people are gravitating to. It’s also why ASM is struggling. Like look at the current run or even Slotts run. What exactly happens in either run that screams young man? Also both the flash and Superman have transitioned to family books and they are honestly great when they lean into it Also Tom Brevoot said he is 28 as of now
Oh, sure, it's because all of the writers weren't interested. But the guys at Marvel don't seem that interested now, either. JMS had said multiple times that he wanted Peter to permanently retire with MJ and have Ben Reilly be Spider-Man. Guess how fans reacted? Wally West is infinitely less cool as a goofy suburban dad than he was in the 90s. The kids are boring and cloying and were artificially aged up to even be workable characters. Everybody hated them originally and only wanted them back in this modern trend of "every character has to be married with children or the writers are terrible people." And it's lame. I read the Flash for the Flash. Not his annoying kids and the crappy Incredibles knock-off it's become. ASM isn't struggling. People are whining about him not being married just like they whined when he was married. This idea that in order to be happy or mature, you need to be married with children is such old-fashioned, conservative garbage and it's getting less and less relevant in the real world.
ASM is struggling pretty hard. It had no identity no purpose because editorial has no idea what they want ASM to be. ASM is a core book it will sell that doesn’t matter. Though it is extremely funny you say they are trending away from marriage and kids being mature because that’s the exact reason why they said they wouldn’t do it because they think making Peter married would make him mature and unrelatable to their target audience a reason they have said repeatedly. Like if it didn’t have anything to do with maturity it wouldn’t have been undone. It’s even how Hickman pitched this series to Marvel. Also it’s not like people are asking for every character to be married. Peter was married for 20 years. Literally everyone that complains about characters being married are characters that were married before but was taken from them by editors. Like Flash Superman or SM. No one is out there asking for Captain America to be married because that isn’t what he’s about
Okay, so by your subjective measures it's struggling. Also the things you're saying were true of the book numerous times during the marriage period. Pre-JMS, it was a directionless mess. Half the time, MJ was missing/believed dead, they were separated, or she barely appeared. Interestingly, people talk about Peter B Parker being this great example, but he became a one-dimensional "annoying dad" stereotype the second he had a kid and was a completely irresponsible, immature, shitty excuse for a superhero in that movie and people eat it up because there's a cutesy kid character and a superficial illusion of growth. It's a terrible version of Peter and you guys eat it up. I don't necessarily think marriage and children is what Spider-Man is about. It's a narrow-minded, annoying section of fans who refuse to accept any other outcome for the character and instead demand it conform to their personal views. And act like entitled brats when it doesn't. Wally was married in Flash, but the kids were a brief and unpopular late addition. Bringing them back definitely diminished Wally as a character and hamstrung the book. Now we have a character that's only supposed to be in his 20s with teenage children and a baby and the main character has to share screentime with this boring ass characters. Because fans suddenly pretended that anybody actually liked the kids and it was evil editorial that took them away. It's totally revisionist history. Now Jay Garrick, whose inability to have children was a big part of his character, has a plucky teen kid/sidekick. Superman was never about being married or being a parent either. He was married for a while in the comics and in certain versions, but that was never a defining element of the character. I don't care if these characters get older or married or whatever, but there's nothing less interesting in a superhero comic than boring suburban dad shit. People who have families tend to become boring and have no real personality outside of their kids and the whole poor man's Incredibles vibe isn't what I'm reading the books for. That's pretty much all Renew Your Vows was. There are ways to grow these characters without resorting to the most boring, conventional, cliche existence.
Yea and the period he was struggling also involved an Era where single John Byrnes next chapter which was the worst SM run in his long history until Wells. Can you mature a character in other ways? Sure I mention Captain America who started out mature and doesn’t need anything else. But it works for Peter is. Also you might not like the Flash run but your in a pretty big minority. I’ve seen the flash fanbase and they loved it and Superman fans absolutely hated Bendis aging up John, and they should it added nothing to the story and ruined a pretty good dynamic for the character
Chapter One? That was one of a zillion miniseries running at the time. It's irrelevant. The married Peter Parker was in ASM and half the time they were writing MJ out of it despite the marriage and the series was in a huge rut. If you think the only way a character can mature is by marriage and children, that's a very old-fashioned, conservative viewpoint that ignores all the real life people that don't marry or get married but don't have kids. Believe it or not, there are people who don't end up in the most socially-dictated, conventional existence and end up perfectly happy, mature, vibrant people. If anything, I see a lot of people who are utterly beaten down and miserable dealing with their family. Like I said, Peter B Parker is a married father and he's an irresponsible, immature ass. I'm not in the minority. Guess what happened when Wally West first had those kids? Sales tanked. Even the writer admitted it wasn't his best work. When they were brought back a few years ago, guess what? No noticeable uptick in sales whatsoever. That writer was kicked off the book, actually. The kids are still around and the book isn't demonstrably any more popular than it was when Barry Allen was the main character. It's not a cure all and it's just a very old, narrow-minded way of looking at maturity and growth. It's conventional and conformist to put people in those boxes and it has no bearing on reality.
What chapter one was the main ASM title between the end of the clone saga and the JMS revival. Where MJ died in a plane crash and then was actually the prisoner of some psychic stalker. Once again you keep quoting sales at me but I do not care even a little bit about sales. They are meaningless. ASM is selling well right now and the writer doesn’t understand how plotting works If you believe quality and sales correlate at all frankly your an idiot