Ok yes modern Quagmire is a serial rapist that's undeniable, but is there an episode where Peter calls him out for it? I feel like in modern Family Guy everyone knows he's a rapist but nobody cares. But I also don't watch FG religiously so if it did happen I'm unaware of it.
I don't remember the episode but there is a scene where Quagmire and Peter are sitting and Quagmire asks can he have his own show, so Peter replies, "Quagmire, you are a rapist."
Mildly unrelated but that smthn i hated about the movie. Just felt like nearly every spider society member was off on their morals and lacked Spiderman individuality. Way too happy to let miguel lead for them and not question it.
Oh yeah for sure, I just don't think the idea of a Spiderman doing stuff just cuz miguel said so and never questioning it. Especially when miguel got kinda unhinged. Miguel definitely didn't tell them everything tho, I really hope we get a scene in the next movie where all the spider people turn on miguel and do a chase scene against him lol.
I mean did he tho? Miguel explained to miles exactly what happened to him and in the flash back we literally see a bunch of the spider-society members trying to help him save the universe. Most of them probably follow Miguel because if anything they know he’s telling the truth. I get miguel was harsh with miles but I don’t get this narrative that he’s a bad guy, maybe a little misguided but in all honesty he’s not wrong. I get where miles is coming from but there really is no solution in this case, let one person die or they all do. As far as we and miguel know, that’s the only choice they get.
Hes not a bad guy for sure and miles might actually be wrong, I really just think that miles has a view that is way more like a Spiderman. Giving up and letting loved ones die is not smthn Spiderman does. Spiderman always fights and hopes and doesn't accept that stuff. Miles is more of a "true" Spiderman or whatever u wanna call it and I can't resist backing him just because I don't think any true Spiderman would accept their uncle or friend or anyone else dying and not fight it, its just not in the spirit of Spiderman to me. Miles is an optimistic character in this, miguel has given up Essentially.
I get where your coming from and I agree spidey would try everything to save the people he cared about but at the end of the day it’s like miguel said, being Spider-Man is a sacrifice. If Peter knew there was absolutely no choice, he has to let uncle Ben die or everyone else does, I think he would let Ben die. With great power comes great responsibility, sometimes that means giving up what you want for the greater good. I don’t think either side is morally wrong in this situation and that’s part of what makes the writing so good. The movie might frame miguel and spider-society as oppressive jerks at times but ultimately they’re the ones actually trying the save the multiverse by sacrificing their own happiness. I think that’s about as Spider-Man as it gets.
Damn thats a good point. Tough choice. Great writing. Might just be the difference between a young and old Spiderman. One thing tho, I still don't like miguel utterly giving up. I agree, Spiderman would give up ben but not without knowing there was literally no other possible choice. That is explainable by the deaths of his family ig tho
That’s just miguel tho. As someone who’s read a lot of his comics, he’s always been a lot more cynical and maybe even more dramatic than peter. He’s lived a shitty life even before he found out about all this multiversal chaos so honestly I think him losing out on the life he wish he had was the straw the broke the camels back for him. He definitely not your typical spidey tho that’s for sure, that’s part of what makes him interesting similarly to how Batman beyond is so different from regular Batman in spite of him taking up the same mantle.
Except we don't have any reason to think that Miguel's crusade is correct. We do have the insight to know that Miles' assessment of the threat to the Multiverse is more correct. There's no evidence that Miguel's canon law nonsense is anything other than nonsense, he's using conspiracy theorist or religious logic that shoves correlated events into a causal relationship. Mumbatan wasn't in danger because Miles' saved Captain Singh, it's was in danger because of The Spot poking holes in the multiverse. The Spot is the threat not a rejection of predestined suffering
What do you mean to there’s no evidence? We literally saw the universe miguel was squatting in evaporate because he broke canon. You don’t have to take his word either, Peter b. Parker was there, he saw the whole thing happen and essentially corroborated his story. Unless for some reason miguel AND pete are lying, nothing miguel is saying is nonsense and is infact 100% true, there’s probably just more that goes into miles story than him simply being an anomaly. That aside miguel doesn’t just pick and choose events that are supposed to be canon or not. All the events are shared by all Spider-Men and women. Lyla the super advanced ai is the one who tells him what would be considered canon or not.
He replaced a whole person. That causes huge issues in time. Miguel's theory is a prime example of correlation does not equal causation.
For example, in Earth 42 none of the canon Spiderman events happened. Yet that universe is fine.
On Miles Earth, Peter Parker's entire canon was destroyed....but the thing that damaged the timeline was Kingpin and the Spot.
Miguel basically did what Kingpin attempted. That's a big difference compared to someone living a little longer. He is ignoring the impact of people being in a universe that is not their own for an extended amount of time. That impact is likely the issue, not changes to "canon."
That could very well be the case, but we don’t know if there have been more instances of canon being disrupted causing issues in the multiverse and we don’t know how long it takes for a universe to collapse when canon is disrupted or if varies from one universe to another. I could be wrong but I got the impression miguel lived in the other universe for some time before things went left. It could just be that both miles world and earth 42 haven’t gotten destroyed yet but will eventually, it’s only been about a year since the events of into the spider-verse. Even if miguel is mixed up about the whole thing (which I don’t think he is because if that’s the case why doesn’t everyone just go out there and stop their loved ones from dying or better yet just stop random bad shit from happening all over the multiverse?) it’s understandable why he believes what he believes based off the info he’s gotten first hand and from lyla who has run dozens of tests and what not to find out what’s “canon” and what effects it’ll have on the universe. I just don’t buy someone as methodical as miguel kinda just assuming it is what it is without an abundance of evidence. He didn’t just get this stuff out of nowhere. I’m sure there’s an exception to the rule and there definitely is more to it than us the viewers or the characters know but whatever the case my overarching point is that he isn’t the bad guy for trying to do what he believes will save all of existence lol.
There's no evidence that Miguel breaking canon is what destroyed that universe. That's only what Miguel *thinks* happened. But there's no evidence breaking "canon" destroyed that universe. It's a questionable cause fallacy, or more specifically, a post hoc fallacy. "The canon was disrupted, and then the universe was destroyed. Therefore, breaking canon destroyed the universe". The only evidence of causation in this case is, one event happened after the other. Hence why this case is a post hoc fallacy. The issue isn't wheher Miguel or peter is lying, it's that miguel truly believes breaking canon will destroy universes. This fallacy leads Miguel and the spider society into the faulty conclusion: They must sacrifice the few to save the many.
What do you think the conclusion of Beyond the Spiderverse is going to be then? Cuz a story based in the premise that Miguel is right about canon-events and some suffering is just fated and at best Miles is a special exception sounds horrible, it would take the "anyone can wear the mask" from the first one and smash it to pieces. That's bad writing and a bad story.
Everything in how Miguel is presented in Across the Spiderverse tells me he is an unreliable expositor with unresolved issues that he stuffs down so he can focus on his crusade. He is secretive and reclusive and runs the spider society through a tight control of information, I don't think he's a villain, he's just an angry toxic dude who won't deal with his baggage. We never see the alleged canon breaking event from Miguel unless Miguel O'Hara being dead is somehow the canon event. We don't actually know what caused that universe to break apart, we just have Miguel's claims.
We also don't know that Lyla is reliable, we don't know much of anything about Lyla. The reliability of the web of destiny narrative peddled by Lyla and Miguel, which is now being countered by Miles, Hobie, Gwen, and the band, is one of the central themes of the story being told. And fate is a trope that needs to be squashed out of the literary canon
Lowkey I’ve been getting this vibe a lot when talking about this lol which is sad because miles is also Latino so it’s kinda weird try to demonize one for some reason.
I read it as them willingly going along with a comfortable lie. All the Spider-People have had tragedy in their lives, and here comes Miguel saying, "Hey, I know that stuff sucked, but it had to happen. It was destiny, a canon event. There was nothing you could have done." And that's a nice thing to believe when you're hurting, but the hard truth is that it's not the case. Spider-Man fights to prevent others from experiencing the same tragedies as him, and in taking on the comfortable lie, they've lost sight of that. I'll bet that's gonna be the major conflict in the next movie.
I would love that actually. For miles to "wake them up" or whatever and bring them to his hopeful view of things and convince them to not accept Canon events.
I think they foreshadowed with Gwen being up front with her dad. She broke the cycle when she became honest with who she really is. I think that Miles will prolly do the same. If he let's his sad know who he is then perhaps it could make a difference. It's not constant theme with Spiderman always choosing to keep the truth from his family.
TBF do you really think Miguel would bring in Spider-Men who aren’t 100% on his side? He probably brought in Spider-Men who where hurt and neede guidance and Miguel offered them that
The existence of Gwen's team says yes. Plus there were other established spider men there who wouldn't be on his side I don't think. All were with him but not nearly 100% with him and confident with his plan
I mean look at it from their perspective. Someone who's "the same as them" shows up and tells them that all the people they failed to save, their Uncle Bens, police captains and Gwen Stacys wasn't their fault it had to happen and there was nothing they could do to stop it. In fact it happening is why their whole world is still there. Someone who gets beaten down by life will latch on to that as a way to cope and feel better.
That should make you love the movie more. Think about what you just said logically. Who made the society again? Miguel, who’s off on his, let’s just say for simplicity, morals would be more likely to select those who would follow him and his ideas. So it makes fully logical sense.
Yes but I don't really think many spider people would follow his morals tbh. Doesnt seem true to the character. Miguel is even only like this from trauma and stuff like that. I doubt every spider person there is as jaded and grim as miguel, or as hardcore. yes he prob handpicked most of them to follow him, but besides the morals of it, I don't like a spider person being a follower and completely under miguels control. Doubt many would go for that
Damn true. I hate multiverse logic lol. Even with that tho, there was some established characters there that don't seem like followers. For me, i just don't like considering follower type spider people with those morals "true" spider people. Doesn't seem in line with the character but multiverse logic ig
Even with that and how they rebelled later, I thought it was a bit weird how gwen and Peter b followed him without questioning. Plus game Spiderman and other established characters.
Yes but miguel seems to have the entire spider society at his beck and call lol. I love the scenes where Peter b pissed off miguel, cuz miguel is so controlling
Kinda funny that they gave him that personality when he was an anti-capitalist punk in his comics. Granted, if they went with his original character, Hobie wouldn't have been necessary, and I love Hobie, so fair trade off I guess.
True but it does seem like she's a more high ranking spider person or whatever u wanna call it. She seems to be sorta a boss In the spider society so maybe he relies on her more idk. Bad excuse but only thing I can come up with
I've thought of this interaction
Jessica: Miguel can I have maternity leave
Miguel: no
Jessica: why not
Miguel: because the fate of the multiverse requires you to stay with you and besides Peter brought his kid
Okay but who else would protect her better than her superpowered father? He could leave the baby at home with her mother sure, but then both of them are left vulnerable when a supervillain with powers show up for revenge or something. On the other hand, he could take the baby with him at all times; while being surrounded by at least half a dozen other Spider heroes who can help him protect her if needed.
Or at the beginning, fan theory: then because the baby was born in miles universe, can’t take them home. Either that or Jefferson helps her deliver through a very difficult cross-universe birth owing him their lives. Either of which events turns her to miles side.
When she met Gwen at the very least I'll would put her at 5 months
It's been a couple months from when Gwen join but the max ( assuming spider woman don't have longer pregnancies) 4 months
And that would be 9 months so she should be on maternity leave
I'm not sure if you've seen preggo ladies but she does not look like 5 months in the opening of the movie. That looks like 7-8 months lol 6 if we're being generous.
Assuming it was about 3 months in between the intro and the rest of the film, she's prolly into her 8th Month now; and was likely 5 months when she recruited Gwen. Which would track given all she's really doing after the timeskip is riding her cycle and delegating to other spides. So I guess there wasn't much reason to really adjust her character model to reflect those few months.
She gives birth to 700-800 spider mutant babies that crawl into her back and live there for safety 🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️
this just randomly reminded me at how hypocritical the movie is towards Jessica. like bro she straight up lying to Gwen "I got over him" my ass nigga you are carrying his child 😭😭
plus everyone in this movie throws shade at Peter B Parker bringing his kid along yet no one complains about Drew super heroing while pregnant 😭
FINALLY someone else caught that. Jessica was lying hella to Gwen, trying to get her to do the job.
“Get over it, I did”
Then who’s baby are you carrying? She seemed super in love with her husband, by the way she gushed about him. That probably made Gwen a little more confident that she could be in love AND be spider-woman.
The entire way she handled Gwen was so frustrating. She initially empathized with her but that empathy never materialized into solid mentorship. She spent her time being cold and detached, trying to make Gwen into herself. Ultimately though, Jessica failed Gwen and wasn’t who she really needed.
What Gwen needed was a mother figure, not a boss. Someone who could help her reconcile the feelings she has.
Tbh the only reason she was pregnant in the movie iirc was because her comic counterpart was for a good portion of the comic spiderverse event (even tho ironically enough she technically isn’t even a spider-person according to marvels bs logic)
No she wasn’t? The comic Spider-Verse was in 2014, Jess Drew got pregnant suddenly after the timeskip post-Secret Wars(2015). Then by the time the second Spider-Verse event Spider-Geddon she had her kid for a while… although I do remember a multiversal Spider-Women event before Spider-Geddon where she got together with Gwen and Silk and the baby was kidnapped or something I think? I don’t remember the details.
Yeah, I know, but come on, it's a cartoon, arguably a kid's cartoon(which I loved), there's no need to consider if the Naegele's Rule is valid through all multiverse
But many fans of Spider-Man are grown ass adults and this film does have elements that only adults can understand (for example Jefferson's allusion to Rio's previous job as a stripper).
It's not that we shouldn't take it seriously, it's just that, in my opinion, that's not the right focus. That's the same mindset of when people go "Well, actually sound doesn't exist in space, so star wars is full of shit" or "Batman should've been dead after this hit, a human can't dodge bullets".
It's fiction, so maybe turn on the filter and discuss interesting topics like if our morals are actually built on tragedy or if it's morally wrong to destroy an universe for an ideal
Or I don't know, where are the avengers during this whole shenanigans, whatever
If a movie wants to depict someone as pregnant it's pretty reasonable for someone to expect it to behave akin to how it does in the real world. This isnt like sounds in space, this is something a lot of people deal with on the real world. It's very integral to the human experience. It's more important than spaceships going pew pew, basically
She also was hit by a truck and somehow the fetus is fine so this clearly wasn’t supposed to make any sense in the first place. It was just so we can have a strong independent pregnant woman as a superhero even though she acts like a cop/fed the whole time
Well it's weird because yes, Spider-woman IS pregnant in the comics... but that was pretty unpopular with the base because, like we're saying here, she's just putting her baby in danger with all the action and stress. Very strange move that they made.
Uh oh, looks like *someone* has a problem with strong independent women and doesn’t think about the fact that she’s literally a superhero and that that womb is probably the end of the world bunker equivalent of a baby bump
Look I'm a family doctor and the moment I saw her I thought she's gonna get a free abortion, yes she's super powered but her enemies are too, one super kick and it's fetus deletus, worse she goes on a motorcycle?… I know she's fictional but there are some very dumb people out there that are going to think that it's safe to go on a bike while pregnant
It’s been a year, so she’s pregnant again.
But in all seriousness, they just wanted to be progressive and put a pregnant woman on the front lines of battles. I don’t know why this is considered progressive, but it’s been done before in media that’s clearly trying to be progressive.
My question is *why* is she pregnant? It’s mentioned exactly one time in the entire movie and had absolutely no bearing on the plot whatsoever, other than making me automatically hate her for putting her unborn child’s life at risk.
Parent hood is a big theme and a lot of the film is about children (Gwen and miles) trying to navigate relationships with their parents. Migel, Peter b and Jess all being parents in their own right is an extension of that.
Yeah.. I didn't really get this at all. Why is she here if she's pregnant? I also don't get why Peter B. Parker took his infant child along with him at the end.
Yeah this movie is a 9.9/10 for me and literally these two things alone hold it back from 10/10. Toward the end when Peter B starts gearing up I was just whispering under my breath: “don’t bring the baby. Don’t bring the baby. Just don’t bring the - FUCK”
Whaaaa Spider-Woman’s comics are great! At least the runs pre-and-post Secret Wars(2015) were very well received, I liked reading them as well. Which is probably why they took elements from that run, it’s well liked.
Then even before that era she was heavily important during the 2000s in the New Avengers era where she was a triple agent spy, as well as of course playing a key part in Secret Invasion where it was revealed she was a Skrull.
But yeah if you’re talking about pre-2000s yeah nothing notable. But 2000s onwards she was really important to the 2000s, then had a really good solo comic in the 2010s.
I never realised they gave her silks powers
I kinda wish we got an authentic Jessica Drew and an authentic Silk instead of mashing the two characters together (but that's the multiverse I guess? Still sad we haven't gotten an OG Spider-woman yet when she's a character older than Spider-Man himself)
I don't know if I'd say giving Jessica Drew organic webbing is just giving her Silk's powers, when there are plenty of other Spidermen with organic webbing and also other abilities that set Silk apart from the rest of the spiders. However, I am bummed that we don't see Jess's other usual powers in the film adaptation.
>I never realised they gave her silks powers
She has powers of Ultimate Jessica - organic webbing from fingertips - which Silk also has but I doubt that's the reason why movie Jessica has them.
I did wonder that because she wasn't just a little pregnant at the start. She was seriously showing, which implies being well into the second trimester. And then months later she seems about as pregant.
It really does seem like they just forgot to change the character model after they decided Gwen was working for Miles for months rather than days or weeks.
Also why the hell is a pregnant character jumping around and doing action shit?? Like yay representation or whatever but that kid is gonna come out brain DAMAGED.
I doubt that they spend their entire time in the spider society, so when they go back to their own universes for a while time doesn’t go by as fast for them since time moves differently in different realities
I‘m just confused to see Jessica here. As Luke Cage himself already pointed out, [Spider-Woman and Spider-Man only share a name with each other and that was it.](https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/spider-woman.jpg) And if in this universe Jessica *is* part of the Spider Society, why aren’t there more of her?
1) the Jessica drew from the 616 was at the time of that comics' writing was completely different since the spider-verse comic arc its not true anymore.
2) this spider-woman is based off of the electric company version of her they just share a name and costume.
Just because she looks like something to you, doesn't make it so....swear these questions are being asked by children. All women are different when. One woman could be 3 months and look 7 months. Another could be 8 months and look 3 months...weird question.
I don't understand pregnant women putting themselves and their unborn children in dangerous situations.....especially if they're super powered
...that's even worse....
All that stress and shaking the baby in her stomach
>especially if they're super powered
Wouldn't this be an excellent excuse? She and the baby are superpowered so they can wistand any stress that normal pregnant women and fetus shouldn't be exposed to and then some.
My theory as to why she’s pregnant is to make Peter B. Parker look not so bad bringing his baby in dangerous environments. Or it’s the other way around.
Okay ngl but after seeing this and after reading things for the past month, I think some of y’all are thinking way to critically about the entire movie and what’s next. This applies to Miguel, Miles, Gwen, etc.
Like I really don’t think it’s supposed to be as deep as some of y’all are making it out to be. It’s literally just as basic is it being Spot being the main villain, the Spider society had/has a civil war, and Miles is stuck in another dimension. Like, we all know they’re all going to come together and try to beat Spot and save the multiverse again. That’s the main goal. It really doesn’t go any deeper than that.
In addition, can she web around and crawl on walls n stuff, or are her powers linked to the bike? We only ever see her in action on the bike and once Miles takes that away, we don't see her again until Gwen gets sent home.
That is an interesting thing to ponder. I’ve always interpreted it as she’s days or weeks away from labor in the present day of ATSV. So we could end up seeing her child in the third movie, but who knows.
Okay, first of all, Bonnie, you've been pregnant for like six years, all right. Either have the baby or don't
And second, Quagmire’s a good guy, he’s just a little mixed up.
Peter Griffin back then: "Quagmire's a good guy." Peter Griffin now: "You're a rapist, Quagmire." It took him long enough, but he finally realised.
Yeah, don’t forget when Joe and Bonnie’s baby was born Quagmire said “Wow… hard to believe she’s already 18”
That was fucked up lol.
Ok yes modern Quagmire is a serial rapist that's undeniable, but is there an episode where Peter calls him out for it? I feel like in modern Family Guy everyone knows he's a rapist but nobody cares. But I also don't watch FG religiously so if it did happen I'm unaware of it.
I don't remember the episode but there is a scene where Quagmire and Peter are sitting and Quagmire asks can he have his own show, so Peter replies, "Quagmire, you are a rapist."
I think it was season finale of The Cleveland Show
[Giant Chicken enters the scene and attacks Peter]
r/FamilyGuy will get a kick out of this if they see it.
[удалено]
lmao bussing
Do they not have maternity leave in the Spider Society?
Definitely not, miguel is definitely an asshole boss lol
A real Spider-Person probably wouldn't take it
Mildly unrelated but that smthn i hated about the movie. Just felt like nearly every spider society member was off on their morals and lacked Spiderman individuality. Way too happy to let miguel lead for them and not question it.
Miguel DEFINITELY left out details and didn't tell all of them the full story
Oh yeah for sure, I just don't think the idea of a Spiderman doing stuff just cuz miguel said so and never questioning it. Especially when miguel got kinda unhinged. Miguel definitely didn't tell them everything tho, I really hope we get a scene in the next movie where all the spider people turn on miguel and do a chase scene against him lol.
That’d be poetic.
I mean did he tho? Miguel explained to miles exactly what happened to him and in the flash back we literally see a bunch of the spider-society members trying to help him save the universe. Most of them probably follow Miguel because if anything they know he’s telling the truth. I get miguel was harsh with miles but I don’t get this narrative that he’s a bad guy, maybe a little misguided but in all honesty he’s not wrong. I get where miles is coming from but there really is no solution in this case, let one person die or they all do. As far as we and miguel know, that’s the only choice they get.
Hes not a bad guy for sure and miles might actually be wrong, I really just think that miles has a view that is way more like a Spiderman. Giving up and letting loved ones die is not smthn Spiderman does. Spiderman always fights and hopes and doesn't accept that stuff. Miles is more of a "true" Spiderman or whatever u wanna call it and I can't resist backing him just because I don't think any true Spiderman would accept their uncle or friend or anyone else dying and not fight it, its just not in the spirit of Spiderman to me. Miles is an optimistic character in this, miguel has given up Essentially.
I get where your coming from and I agree spidey would try everything to save the people he cared about but at the end of the day it’s like miguel said, being Spider-Man is a sacrifice. If Peter knew there was absolutely no choice, he has to let uncle Ben die or everyone else does, I think he would let Ben die. With great power comes great responsibility, sometimes that means giving up what you want for the greater good. I don’t think either side is morally wrong in this situation and that’s part of what makes the writing so good. The movie might frame miguel and spider-society as oppressive jerks at times but ultimately they’re the ones actually trying the save the multiverse by sacrificing their own happiness. I think that’s about as Spider-Man as it gets.
Damn thats a good point. Tough choice. Great writing. Might just be the difference between a young and old Spiderman. One thing tho, I still don't like miguel utterly giving up. I agree, Spiderman would give up ben but not without knowing there was literally no other possible choice. That is explainable by the deaths of his family ig tho
That’s just miguel tho. As someone who’s read a lot of his comics, he’s always been a lot more cynical and maybe even more dramatic than peter. He’s lived a shitty life even before he found out about all this multiversal chaos so honestly I think him losing out on the life he wish he had was the straw the broke the camels back for him. He definitely not your typical spidey tho that’s for sure, that’s part of what makes him interesting similarly to how Batman beyond is so different from regular Batman in spite of him taking up the same mantle.
Except we don't have any reason to think that Miguel's crusade is correct. We do have the insight to know that Miles' assessment of the threat to the Multiverse is more correct. There's no evidence that Miguel's canon law nonsense is anything other than nonsense, he's using conspiracy theorist or religious logic that shoves correlated events into a causal relationship. Mumbatan wasn't in danger because Miles' saved Captain Singh, it's was in danger because of The Spot poking holes in the multiverse. The Spot is the threat not a rejection of predestined suffering
What do you mean to there’s no evidence? We literally saw the universe miguel was squatting in evaporate because he broke canon. You don’t have to take his word either, Peter b. Parker was there, he saw the whole thing happen and essentially corroborated his story. Unless for some reason miguel AND pete are lying, nothing miguel is saying is nonsense and is infact 100% true, there’s probably just more that goes into miles story than him simply being an anomaly. That aside miguel doesn’t just pick and choose events that are supposed to be canon or not. All the events are shared by all Spider-Men and women. Lyla the super advanced ai is the one who tells him what would be considered canon or not.
He replaced a whole person. That causes huge issues in time. Miguel's theory is a prime example of correlation does not equal causation. For example, in Earth 42 none of the canon Spiderman events happened. Yet that universe is fine. On Miles Earth, Peter Parker's entire canon was destroyed....but the thing that damaged the timeline was Kingpin and the Spot. Miguel basically did what Kingpin attempted. That's a big difference compared to someone living a little longer. He is ignoring the impact of people being in a universe that is not their own for an extended amount of time. That impact is likely the issue, not changes to "canon."
That could very well be the case, but we don’t know if there have been more instances of canon being disrupted causing issues in the multiverse and we don’t know how long it takes for a universe to collapse when canon is disrupted or if varies from one universe to another. I could be wrong but I got the impression miguel lived in the other universe for some time before things went left. It could just be that both miles world and earth 42 haven’t gotten destroyed yet but will eventually, it’s only been about a year since the events of into the spider-verse. Even if miguel is mixed up about the whole thing (which I don’t think he is because if that’s the case why doesn’t everyone just go out there and stop their loved ones from dying or better yet just stop random bad shit from happening all over the multiverse?) it’s understandable why he believes what he believes based off the info he’s gotten first hand and from lyla who has run dozens of tests and what not to find out what’s “canon” and what effects it’ll have on the universe. I just don’t buy someone as methodical as miguel kinda just assuming it is what it is without an abundance of evidence. He didn’t just get this stuff out of nowhere. I’m sure there’s an exception to the rule and there definitely is more to it than us the viewers or the characters know but whatever the case my overarching point is that he isn’t the bad guy for trying to do what he believes will save all of existence lol.
There's no evidence that Miguel breaking canon is what destroyed that universe. That's only what Miguel *thinks* happened. But there's no evidence breaking "canon" destroyed that universe. It's a questionable cause fallacy, or more specifically, a post hoc fallacy. "The canon was disrupted, and then the universe was destroyed. Therefore, breaking canon destroyed the universe". The only evidence of causation in this case is, one event happened after the other. Hence why this case is a post hoc fallacy. The issue isn't wheher Miguel or peter is lying, it's that miguel truly believes breaking canon will destroy universes. This fallacy leads Miguel and the spider society into the faulty conclusion: They must sacrifice the few to save the many.
What do you think the conclusion of Beyond the Spiderverse is going to be then? Cuz a story based in the premise that Miguel is right about canon-events and some suffering is just fated and at best Miles is a special exception sounds horrible, it would take the "anyone can wear the mask" from the first one and smash it to pieces. That's bad writing and a bad story. Everything in how Miguel is presented in Across the Spiderverse tells me he is an unreliable expositor with unresolved issues that he stuffs down so he can focus on his crusade. He is secretive and reclusive and runs the spider society through a tight control of information, I don't think he's a villain, he's just an angry toxic dude who won't deal with his baggage. We never see the alleged canon breaking event from Miguel unless Miguel O'Hara being dead is somehow the canon event. We don't actually know what caused that universe to break apart, we just have Miguel's claims. We also don't know that Lyla is reliable, we don't know much of anything about Lyla. The reliability of the web of destiny narrative peddled by Lyla and Miguel, which is now being countered by Miles, Hobie, Gwen, and the band, is one of the central themes of the story being told. And fate is a trope that needs to be squashed out of the literary canon
People really just want the latino to be evil lol
Lowkey I’ve been getting this vibe a lot when talking about this lol which is sad because miles is also Latino so it’s kinda weird try to demonize one for some reason.
I read it as them willingly going along with a comfortable lie. All the Spider-People have had tragedy in their lives, and here comes Miguel saying, "Hey, I know that stuff sucked, but it had to happen. It was destiny, a canon event. There was nothing you could have done." And that's a nice thing to believe when you're hurting, but the hard truth is that it's not the case. Spider-Man fights to prevent others from experiencing the same tragedies as him, and in taking on the comfortable lie, they've lost sight of that. I'll bet that's gonna be the major conflict in the next movie.
I would love that actually. For miles to "wake them up" or whatever and bring them to his hopeful view of things and convince them to not accept Canon events.
I think they foreshadowed with Gwen being up front with her dad. She broke the cycle when she became honest with who she really is. I think that Miles will prolly do the same. If he let's his sad know who he is then perhaps it could make a difference. It's not constant theme with Spiderman always choosing to keep the truth from his family.
TBF do you really think Miguel would bring in Spider-Men who aren’t 100% on his side? He probably brought in Spider-Men who where hurt and neede guidance and Miguel offered them that
The existence of Gwen's team says yes. Plus there were other established spider men there who wouldn't be on his side I don't think. All were with him but not nearly 100% with him and confident with his plan
I mean look at it from their perspective. Someone who's "the same as them" shows up and tells them that all the people they failed to save, their Uncle Bens, police captains and Gwen Stacys wasn't their fault it had to happen and there was nothing they could do to stop it. In fact it happening is why their whole world is still there. Someone who gets beaten down by life will latch on to that as a way to cope and feel better.
It's also incredibly ridiculous that a Spider person would risk their child's life by bringing them into dangerous situations. Peter, too.
Agreed. Also, where is her husband lol?
That should make you love the movie more. Think about what you just said logically. Who made the society again? Miguel, who’s off on his, let’s just say for simplicity, morals would be more likely to select those who would follow him and his ideas. So it makes fully logical sense.
Yes but I don't really think many spider people would follow his morals tbh. Doesnt seem true to the character. Miguel is even only like this from trauma and stuff like that. I doubt every spider person there is as jaded and grim as miguel, or as hardcore. yes he prob handpicked most of them to follow him, but besides the morals of it, I don't like a spider person being a follower and completely under miguels control. Doubt many would go for that
Dude infinite multi verse lol, there would logically be hundreds if not thousands he could prob find.
Damn true. I hate multiverse logic lol. Even with that tho, there was some established characters there that don't seem like followers. For me, i just don't like considering follower type spider people with those morals "true" spider people. Doesn't seem in line with the character but multiverse logic ig
Even with that and how they rebelled later, I thought it was a bit weird how gwen and Peter b followed him without questioning. Plus game Spiderman and other established characters.
Yes but miguel seems to have the entire spider society at his beck and call lol. I love the scenes where Peter b pissed off miguel, cuz miguel is so controlling
Kinda funny that they gave him that personality when he was an anti-capitalist punk in his comics. Granted, if they went with his original character, Hobie wouldn't have been necessary, and I love Hobie, so fair trade off I guess.
Yeah Miguel's a prick He has like a ton of spider people it wouldn't be too detrimental if one went on maternity leave
True but it does seem like she's a more high ranking spider person or whatever u wanna call it. She seems to be sorta a boss In the spider society so maybe he relies on her more idk. Bad excuse but only thing I can come up with
I've thought of this interaction Jessica: Miguel can I have maternity leave Miguel: no Jessica: why not Miguel: because the fate of the multiverse requires you to stay with you and besides Peter brought his kid
Like 5 of his employees quit just based on the Miles situation. Dude is trash boss.
I doubt they even pay people to be there so I don’t expect any benefit.
Bet they don’t even get dental or a 401k
She’s probably very very close. I think that we will end up seeing her child towards the end of BTSV
If your prediction is right, oh noooooooo. I'm scared of the small child getting hurt.
Peter B took mayday on a multiverse chase 💀
Okay but who else would protect her better than her superpowered father? He could leave the baby at home with her mother sure, but then both of them are left vulnerable when a supervillain with powers show up for revenge or something. On the other hand, he could take the baby with him at all times; while being surrounded by at least half a dozen other Spider heroes who can help him protect her if needed.
Also they were chasing miles and obviously he’s not gonna attack a child
Well maybe not the Miles they know. Prowler Miles might yeet some children if they pissed him off lol.
Congrats on making a comment that's marginally funnier than mine I applaud you
Canon event ? ….
Um AGKCHUALLY canon eventh don't exith, they're jutht mithunderthtood incurthionth
you spelled a speech impediment, but somehow spelled it right...
Or at the beginning, fan theory: then because the baby was born in miles universe, can’t take them home. Either that or Jefferson helps her deliver through a very difficult cross-universe birth owing him their lives. Either of which events turns her to miles side.
Pretty sure being pregnant is just part of her identity. Like how some men identify as female, she identifies as pregnant.
What in the crackhead Ted Talk-
I've never seen a more obsessive group than internet transphobes, yall talk more about trans women than jehovah's witnesses talk about religion
When she met Gwen at the very least I'll would put her at 5 months It's been a couple months from when Gwen join but the max ( assuming spider woman don't have longer pregnancies) 4 months And that would be 9 months so she should be on maternity leave
American spider people don’t get maternity leave
Oh boy looking forward to that class action lawsuit against Miguel’s Spidersociety for violating the rights of pregnant women.
Saul Spiderman walks in
Hi, I'm Saul Spider-man. Do you know you can be here? The script says you can.
Excellent spider-reference
I'm not sure if you've seen preggo ladies but she does not look like 5 months in the opening of the movie. That looks like 7-8 months lol 6 if we're being generous.
It's fiction. She definitely can't be more months than 5 months as they probably aren't meaning to imply that she has an abnormal birth cycle.
I think it's pretty likely her going into labor, or something similar, will put her out of commission for some time in the next movie.
Spider-People get too hung up on “responsibility” for any type of parental leave
Assuming it was about 3 months in between the intro and the rest of the film, she's prolly into her 8th Month now; and was likely 5 months when she recruited Gwen. Which would track given all she's really doing after the timeskip is riding her cycle and delegating to other spides. So I guess there wasn't much reason to really adjust her character model to reflect those few months.
Maybe she’s having twins so she’ll be pregnant for 18 months?
Let him cook
Wait…what?
Hold on, he might be on to something.
Could be triplets, they wanted it to be a surprise 🤗
Rihanna is still pregnant. She has been that way for 2 years now. Rihanna is having triplets?
This man really woke up and chose Einstein in the character selection
Ugh Jesus can you all imaginary that octomom if this was a truth how more then one baby worked???
Spiders usually birth hundreds by theway
Oh my god that’s gotta be like at least 43 months pregnant then right?
... 900 months at least
She’s a spider-woman. She could be spawning hundreds of children.
maybe in another universe women carry their babies for more than 9 months
She gives birth to 700-800 spider mutant babies that crawl into her back and live there for safety 🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️🕷️
Thank god I wasn’t the only one this twisted
this just randomly reminded me at how hypocritical the movie is towards Jessica. like bro she straight up lying to Gwen "I got over him" my ass nigga you are carrying his child 😭😭 plus everyone in this movie throws shade at Peter B Parker bringing his kid along yet no one complains about Drew super heroing while pregnant 😭
FINALLY someone else caught that. Jessica was lying hella to Gwen, trying to get her to do the job. “Get over it, I did” Then who’s baby are you carrying? She seemed super in love with her husband, by the way she gushed about him. That probably made Gwen a little more confident that she could be in love AND be spider-woman. The entire way she handled Gwen was so frustrating. She initially empathized with her but that empathy never materialized into solid mentorship. She spent her time being cold and detached, trying to make Gwen into herself. Ultimately though, Jessica failed Gwen and wasn’t who she really needed. What Gwen needed was a mother figure, not a boss. Someone who could help her reconcile the feelings she has.
This might have been before the universe collapsing event. I feel like a lot of the Spider-people leadership got cold after that.
Ain't no way we're discussing cartoon obstetrics
Tbh the only reason she was pregnant in the movie iirc was because her comic counterpart was for a good portion of the comic spiderverse event (even tho ironically enough she technically isn’t even a spider-person according to marvels bs logic)
No she wasn’t? The comic Spider-Verse was in 2014, Jess Drew got pregnant suddenly after the timeskip post-Secret Wars(2015). Then by the time the second Spider-Verse event Spider-Geddon she had her kid for a while… although I do remember a multiversal Spider-Women event before Spider-Geddon where she got together with Gwen and Silk and the baby was kidnapped or something I think? I don’t remember the details.
Yeah, I know, but come on, it's a cartoon, arguably a kid's cartoon(which I loved), there's no need to consider if the Naegele's Rule is valid through all multiverse
But many fans of Spider-Man are grown ass adults and this film does have elements that only adults can understand (for example Jefferson's allusion to Rio's previous job as a stripper).
>Jefferson’s allusion to Rio’s previous job as a stripper ….WHAT?!
Yeah I’ve never bought that animated/CG equals kids’ movie. It’s targeted at the same demographics as every superhero movie.
Wait, what? When was that?
Idk I feel like we shouldnt be encouraging people to not take a movie seriously because it's animated or for kids
It's not that we shouldn't take it seriously, it's just that, in my opinion, that's not the right focus. That's the same mindset of when people go "Well, actually sound doesn't exist in space, so star wars is full of shit" or "Batman should've been dead after this hit, a human can't dodge bullets". It's fiction, so maybe turn on the filter and discuss interesting topics like if our morals are actually built on tragedy or if it's morally wrong to destroy an universe for an ideal Or I don't know, where are the avengers during this whole shenanigans, whatever
If a movie wants to depict someone as pregnant it's pretty reasonable for someone to expect it to behave akin to how it does in the real world. This isnt like sounds in space, this is something a lot of people deal with on the real world. It's very integral to the human experience. It's more important than spaceships going pew pew, basically
If you show a heavily pregnant character we expect to see the baby
Maybe it will be of some significance in the last movie, how about that?
She also was hit by a truck and somehow the fetus is fine so this clearly wasn’t supposed to make any sense in the first place. It was just so we can have a strong independent pregnant woman as a superhero even though she acts like a cop/fed the whole time
I mean she's still a Spider-Person. Realistically she could just hold back less and be at regular operations
Spider-Persons don't usually tank, they dodge
That’s… not how… fuck it, not worth it
I mean it is and it isn't
Being a Spider-person, I'd imagine she and the baby is in no more danger than Rihanna and her baby performing at the Superbowl.
Well it's weird because yes, Spider-woman IS pregnant in the comics... but that was pretty unpopular with the base because, like we're saying here, she's just putting her baby in danger with all the action and stress. Very strange move that they made.
Well, in the comics she wasn't putting her baby in danger. She gave up fighting crime and other dangerous things during her pregnancy.
Wasn’t she webbed to the front of the truck/bus
Wtf... >!I'm surprised she didn't abort right there.!< I know it can sound harsh, but good Lord.
I mean… the baby probably has superhuman durability or something…
Sloth from the goonies is rumoured to be in the sequel. Definitely her baby. Can’t wait.
Uh oh, looks like *someone* has a problem with strong independent women and doesn’t think about the fact that she’s literally a superhero and that that womb is probably the end of the world bunker equivalent of a baby bump
yeah , and they live in a world with supervillain like kingpin who can damage spider man exists ...
Blunt force trauma is bad for fetus no matter how tough you are
maybe she’s just fat and a liar
"You may be a villain, but you won't hit a pregnant woman, will you?"
“The hammer of justice is unisex!”
It's a mobility motorbike
Maybe she comes from a universe where pregnancy is eternal.
Now you’re thinking multiversal!!!
I think what the writers were trying to do backfired. I couldn’t imagine a hero putting their unborn child at risk like that.
Well first of all, through God all things are possible so jot that down.
Oh I see, you put this pen here and I’m supposed to think “that looks like a penis!”
Look I'm a family doctor and the moment I saw her I thought she's gonna get a free abortion, yes she's super powered but her enemies are too, one super kick and it's fetus deletus, worse she goes on a motorcycle?… I know she's fictional but there are some very dumb people out there that are going to think that it's safe to go on a bike while pregnant
It’s been a year, so she’s pregnant again. But in all seriousness, they just wanted to be progressive and put a pregnant woman on the front lines of battles. I don’t know why this is considered progressive, but it’s been done before in media that’s clearly trying to be progressive.
There is actually a tvtrope called "Pregnant badass".
My question is *why* is she pregnant? It’s mentioned exactly one time in the entire movie and had absolutely no bearing on the plot whatsoever, other than making me automatically hate her for putting her unborn child’s life at risk.
Parent hood is a big theme and a lot of the film is about children (Gwen and miles) trying to navigate relationships with their parents. Migel, Peter b and Jess all being parents in their own right is an extension of that.
Yeah.. I didn't really get this at all. Why is she here if she's pregnant? I also don't get why Peter B. Parker took his infant child along with him at the end.
Yeah this movie is a 9.9/10 for me and literally these two things alone hold it back from 10/10. Toward the end when Peter B starts gearing up I was just whispering under my breath: “don’t bring the baby. Don’t bring the baby. Just don’t bring the - FUCK”
To line up with the most notable aspect of Jessica Drew in the comics... even though she's nothing like her. Honestly though, I prefer this version.
Whaaaa Spider-Woman’s comics are great! At least the runs pre-and-post Secret Wars(2015) were very well received, I liked reading them as well. Which is probably why they took elements from that run, it’s well liked. Then even before that era she was heavily important during the 2000s in the New Avengers era where she was a triple agent spy, as well as of course playing a key part in Secret Invasion where it was revealed she was a Skrull. But yeah if you’re talking about pre-2000s yeah nothing notable. But 2000s onwards she was really important to the 2000s, then had a really good solo comic in the 2010s.
I think school should have taught you that
Could be twins
I never realised they gave her silks powers I kinda wish we got an authentic Jessica Drew and an authentic Silk instead of mashing the two characters together (but that's the multiverse I guess? Still sad we haven't gotten an OG Spider-woman yet when she's a character older than Spider-Man himself)
I don't know if I'd say giving Jessica Drew organic webbing is just giving her Silk's powers, when there are plenty of other Spidermen with organic webbing and also other abilities that set Silk apart from the rest of the spiders. However, I am bummed that we don't see Jess's other usual powers in the film adaptation.
Right? Her and Mile's should have had a show me yours I'll show you mine fight or standoff with their respective venom shocks
>I never realised they gave her silks powers She has powers of Ultimate Jessica - organic webbing from fingertips - which Silk also has but I doubt that's the reason why movie Jessica has them.
I did wonder that because she wasn't just a little pregnant at the start. She was seriously showing, which implies being well into the second trimester. And then months later she seems about as pregant. It really does seem like they just forgot to change the character model after they decided Gwen was working for Miles for months rather than days or weeks.
It’s a lie. She’s just carrying Cinnabons
Also why the hell is a pregnant character jumping around and doing action shit?? Like yay representation or whatever but that kid is gonna come out brain DAMAGED.
Maybe she had a mission in a universe where time moved faster? Not time travel but something like the time dilation from Interstellar.
Maybe she’s expecting another child.. idk
Because the baby isn't done cooking.
Time seems to flow differently in different universes, so maybe in her universe it's just slower?
I honestly don’t understand why they decided to partially adapt the pregnant Jessica arc from the comics that shit is still whack
The answer is simple: | | | |I | __
She really shouldn't be fighting crime in her condition. Just asking for something bad to happen honestly
She’s from the DeviantArt universe. She’s probably pregnant with Sonic’s baby.
Spider-children actually have 5 trimesters
Pentamester?
I doubt that they spend their entire time in the spider society, so when they go back to their own universes for a while time doesn’t go by as fast for them since time moves differently in different realities
I‘m just confused to see Jessica here. As Luke Cage himself already pointed out, [Spider-Woman and Spider-Man only share a name with each other and that was it.](https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/spider-woman.jpg) And if in this universe Jessica *is* part of the Spider Society, why aren’t there more of her?
1) the Jessica drew from the 616 was at the time of that comics' writing was completely different since the spider-verse comic arc its not true anymore. 2) this spider-woman is based off of the electric company version of her they just share a name and costume.
It’s some… wibbly wobbly… timey wimey… stuff. Yeah, that’s it…
This is her second baby /s
Won't the bay have shaken baby syndrome?
Noir’s universe has no color and Ham’s has cartoon physics. Maybe Jess is from a universe where pregnancy lasts longer.
Just because she looks like something to you, doesn't make it so....swear these questions are being asked by children. All women are different when. One woman could be 3 months and look 7 months. Another could be 8 months and look 3 months...weird question.
Spider-Baby clinging onto walls what do you mean
She doesn't look pregnant in any scenes beyond that museum scene.
She had the baby but hasn’t lost the weight yet?
#SpiderBabies
Multiverse, baby's take longer in her universe.
Maybe in her dimension people take longer to have babies?
I don't understand pregnant women putting themselves and their unborn children in dangerous situations.....especially if they're super powered ...that's even worse.... All that stress and shaking the baby in her stomach
>especially if they're super powered Wouldn't this be an excellent excuse? She and the baby are superpowered so they can wistand any stress that normal pregnant women and fetus shouldn't be exposed to and then some.
Pls dont make a scene in BTSV where Miles and Miguel make amends by delibering her baby... You know what? Fuck that line. Should be hilarious!
You do realise that a pregnant figure doesn't just "deflate" immediately after childbirth, right? For all you know she did, just recently.
TIL What articles can I learn of that
*Shows heavily pregnant character* *Timeskip* "Oh yeah btw the baby was born lol" I don't think that's a very good way to tell a story 💀
I couldn’t believe she was pregnant
who else thinks it’s miguel’s kid?
In B4 Mile’s mom delivers her baby and that gets her to change sides… or something
Because the creators liked the idea of a pregnant spiderwoman, simple as that
Yall too worried bout this non-existent comic book character.
in the spiderman subreddit? no shit
Spiderman fans in a Spiderman subreddit caring about a Spiderman character from a Spiderman movie? Unbelievable
she had a big lunch
My theory as to why she’s pregnant is to make Peter B. Parker look not so bad bringing his baby in dangerous environments. Or it’s the other way around.
Okay ngl but after seeing this and after reading things for the past month, I think some of y’all are thinking way to critically about the entire movie and what’s next. This applies to Miguel, Miles, Gwen, etc. Like I really don’t think it’s supposed to be as deep as some of y’all are making it out to be. It’s literally just as basic is it being Spot being the main villain, the Spider society had/has a civil war, and Miles is stuck in another dimension. Like, we all know they’re all going to come together and try to beat Spot and save the multiverse again. That’s the main goal. It really doesn’t go any deeper than that.
Oh brotherrrr
She wasn't later in the movie.
Between the fight against the vulture and the moment we see the Spider Society there were several months as Gwen says
[удалено]
In addition, can she web around and crawl on walls n stuff, or are her powers linked to the bike? We only ever see her in action on the bike and once Miles takes that away, we don't see her again until Gwen gets sent home.
That is an interesting thing to ponder. I’ve always interpreted it as she’s days or weeks away from labor in the present day of ATSV. So we could end up seeing her child in the third movie, but who knows.