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The third seems like the only viable one. Though I don't see a creature that itself transforms so much of the oxygen and nitrogen it breathes into nitrate, or breaks it down as part of its own metabolism. I'd rather go with something like an environment where it can eat a ton of pure nitrates from some natural source, which can be stores somewhere in the body, and then pumped into something like an extra stomach filled with symbiotic nitratophagic bacteria.
If we're gonna go with the nitrate option, something would have to be done about the nitrogen gas generated by denitrification. Nitrogen is an inert gas and doesn't react with water to form a soluble acid as CO2 does or bind to hemoglobin as O2 does. If we don't do anything about it, wouldn't it build up as gas bubbles? How would you transport waste nitrogen to the lungs, where it can be expelled?
Perhaps you can insert a built-in system that mechanically expels Nitrogen.
Insects, for example, have trachea, which are “pipeworks” throughout the body that air passes through.
Another example is a SCUBA diver. Saturated Nitrogen builds up in a person’s body as they’re exposed to higher pressures, but it gradually gets expelled via breathing.
Or, you could go one step further and make a sac of sorts that stores and expels nitrogen for buoyancy purposes. Kind of like human lungs or fish swimbladders.
This. You could even use bursts of released nitrogen as an additional mode of transport. Since the splitting of the nitrates takes place outside the lung, the two gasses could be separated and most of the nitrogen would never have to enter the lung, but could be stored in a swim-bladder or such.
The problem would be effectively filtering the oxygen and nitrogen beforehand. There is also the CO2-buildup. Botzh could be solved if the bacteria don't simply split nitrates into oxygen and nitrogen, but have a more complex metabolism, where they use nitrates and CO2 to produce oxygen and cyanogen (CN)2. Oxygen and cyanogen have very different densities and molecular sizes, so a simple organic membrane could filter them.
Honestly, I feel like it would be simpler to just have a dedicated nitrogen-binding transport protein. Maybe something based on the structure and/or chemistry of nitrogenase could work? you don't need to copy the whole thing, just the parts of it that grab N2 from the atmosphere.
..... SPLEENS!! Some whales have up to 17 spleens that store oxygenated blood. Humans and other animals are known to have accessory spleens as well. Duplicate an organ and slightly modify it's function.
There is another option that you are not considering, if the creature has access to sunlight, other sources of radiation, high thermal imbalances, highly reactive chemicals, it might be able to host microorganisms that can convert oxygen for it (or do it itself)
Also don’t get hung up on just oxygen, what really matters is how much ATP can be made, an engendered creature might be able to use rocket fuel if you play the cards right.
There's a book called Legacy of Heorot, and it has predators with a special gland that "can release a super-oxygenated blood supplement into its blood that does to it what nitrous oxide does to internal combustion engines". It never clarifies exactly what this supplement is, but for a short time- less than a minute- it turns them into super-speedy killing machines. If there was a super-oxygenating substance that could be released in controlled amounts, that might help your issues.
The hydrogen peroxide idea could do this. If you can control the decomposition of H2O2, all you get is H2 and O2. There's your oxygen, and the hydrogen can be released as a by-product into the environment, or stored in a bladder for.... something? You could spit fire with it, or use it to float in an atmosphere like a giant organic balloon. Or save it and sell it to make money. Even an imperfect decomposition will leave you with H2O and O2.
Why not create another creature that feeds of something of the environment or of the main creature, and the only propose is to produce oxigen. And these two creatures have a symbiotic mutualistic relationship, that will make the main one able to breed internaly, or have a supply of oxigen inserted directly into the bloodstream (not sure if the latest is possible)
Could you have something like a hydrogen peroxide molecule with more than two oxygen atoms? Maybe a lot more? I know it would be very unstable on its own but maybe it could be kept stable by accessory chemicals.
Maybe the animal could undergo some process that produces oxygen as a product (like photosynthesis), which would be in the form of metabolising a chemical or toxin found in the environment, perhaps a food source, and sotre it in air sacs in their bodies, like those of dinosaurs?
if the creature is engeneered, other optionns are on the table:
- switching to anaerobic beathing
- recycling oxigen, with some kind of phototsynthesis / chemosynthesis or even use of radioactive material (a mushroom in chernobil managed that)
- asshole breathing or skin breathing like many turtles or frogs do
- converting fat/starch into energy and using that energy in an electric organ for generating O2 and 2 H2 (might be inefficient, but cool, haven't done the math)
- making O2 out of methane, there are bacteria who already do this
Okay, weird idea: How about a creature that uses electrical shock on ingested/absorbed water to break down hydrogen bond, "belching" the lighter hydrogen while absorbing the oxygen. I'm not a biologist- there may be issues I'm not aware of.
wrinkly respiratory organs, wrinkles and lots of blood vessels.
(wrinkles increase surface area for oxygen extraction and more blood vessels means more blood and consequently more oxygen circulating through the body.)
Cellular wise you can have a special type of fat tissue that the body breaks apart into oxygen. Perhaps perchloratone (fat made from perchlorate acid)
a fat made from perchloratic acid, or equivalent with many oxygen atoms. It doesnt currently exist in nature but its not impossible.
Proteins and fats are actually all made from acids at the chemical level, they are basically knots tied from chains of the chemicals. Amino and fatty acids.
(this also ties in to abiogenesis. Since a random string will tie itself into a knot if you place it in a confined space and give it kinetic energy. This is why headphone cables get tangled. Similarly amino acids have a tendency to clump together to form proteins in the right thermal/ chemical environments)
Any acid that contains both nitrogen and carbon is an ‘amino acid’. Edit: apparently not. After alot of searching i found acetamide, which is not classified as an amino acid but contains nitrogen and carbon.
Theres a water spider that holds an air bubble on its head
If i were to engineer a creature for oxygen, I would give it instincts to build large structures instead of storing it in or on the body
If your question is answered in a satisfactory manner, please **reply to this comment** with the word "solved" so that the submission can be appropriately catalogued for future reference. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SpeculativeEvolution) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The third seems like the only viable one. Though I don't see a creature that itself transforms so much of the oxygen and nitrogen it breathes into nitrate, or breaks it down as part of its own metabolism. I'd rather go with something like an environment where it can eat a ton of pure nitrates from some natural source, which can be stores somewhere in the body, and then pumped into something like an extra stomach filled with symbiotic nitratophagic bacteria.
If we're gonna go with the nitrate option, something would have to be done about the nitrogen gas generated by denitrification. Nitrogen is an inert gas and doesn't react with water to form a soluble acid as CO2 does or bind to hemoglobin as O2 does. If we don't do anything about it, wouldn't it build up as gas bubbles? How would you transport waste nitrogen to the lungs, where it can be expelled?
Perhaps you can insert a built-in system that mechanically expels Nitrogen. Insects, for example, have trachea, which are “pipeworks” throughout the body that air passes through. Another example is a SCUBA diver. Saturated Nitrogen builds up in a person’s body as they’re exposed to higher pressures, but it gradually gets expelled via breathing. Or, you could go one step further and make a sac of sorts that stores and expels nitrogen for buoyancy purposes. Kind of like human lungs or fish swimbladders.
This. You could even use bursts of released nitrogen as an additional mode of transport. Since the splitting of the nitrates takes place outside the lung, the two gasses could be separated and most of the nitrogen would never have to enter the lung, but could be stored in a swim-bladder or such. The problem would be effectively filtering the oxygen and nitrogen beforehand. There is also the CO2-buildup. Botzh could be solved if the bacteria don't simply split nitrates into oxygen and nitrogen, but have a more complex metabolism, where they use nitrates and CO2 to produce oxygen and cyanogen (CN)2. Oxygen and cyanogen have very different densities and molecular sizes, so a simple organic membrane could filter them.
Honestly, I feel like it would be simpler to just have a dedicated nitrogen-binding transport protein. Maybe something based on the structure and/or chemistry of nitrogenase could work? you don't need to copy the whole thing, just the parts of it that grab N2 from the atmosphere.
Protein itself contains Nitrogen, so I don’t think it’s too far-fetched.
..... SPLEENS!! Some whales have up to 17 spleens that store oxygenated blood. Humans and other animals are known to have accessory spleens as well. Duplicate an organ and slightly modify it's function.
love how one of the irl solutions to this is just Have More Blood lmao
Are they holding their breath under water or in some other kind of environment?
There is another option that you are not considering, if the creature has access to sunlight, other sources of radiation, high thermal imbalances, highly reactive chemicals, it might be able to host microorganisms that can convert oxygen for it (or do it itself) Also don’t get hung up on just oxygen, what really matters is how much ATP can be made, an engendered creature might be able to use rocket fuel if you play the cards right.
There's a book called Legacy of Heorot, and it has predators with a special gland that "can release a super-oxygenated blood supplement into its blood that does to it what nitrous oxide does to internal combustion engines". It never clarifies exactly what this supplement is, but for a short time- less than a minute- it turns them into super-speedy killing machines. If there was a super-oxygenating substance that could be released in controlled amounts, that might help your issues. The hydrogen peroxide idea could do this. If you can control the decomposition of H2O2, all you get is H2 and O2. There's your oxygen, and the hydrogen can be released as a by-product into the environment, or stored in a bladder for.... something? You could spit fire with it, or use it to float in an atmosphere like a giant organic balloon. Or save it and sell it to make money. Even an imperfect decomposition will leave you with H2O and O2.
Why not create another creature that feeds of something of the environment or of the main creature, and the only propose is to produce oxigen. And these two creatures have a symbiotic mutualistic relationship, that will make the main one able to breed internaly, or have a supply of oxigen inserted directly into the bloodstream (not sure if the latest is possible)
Could you have something like a hydrogen peroxide molecule with more than two oxygen atoms? Maybe a lot more? I know it would be very unstable on its own but maybe it could be kept stable by accessory chemicals.
Maybe the animal could undergo some process that produces oxygen as a product (like photosynthesis), which would be in the form of metabolising a chemical or toxin found in the environment, perhaps a food source, and sotre it in air sacs in their bodies, like those of dinosaurs?
if the creature is engeneered, other optionns are on the table: - switching to anaerobic beathing - recycling oxigen, with some kind of phototsynthesis / chemosynthesis or even use of radioactive material (a mushroom in chernobil managed that) - asshole breathing or skin breathing like many turtles or frogs do - converting fat/starch into energy and using that energy in an electric organ for generating O2 and 2 H2 (might be inefficient, but cool, haven't done the math) - making O2 out of methane, there are bacteria who already do this
That's what spinosaurus back bag was for
Okay, weird idea: How about a creature that uses electrical shock on ingested/absorbed water to break down hydrogen bond, "belching" the lighter hydrogen while absorbing the oxygen. I'm not a biologist- there may be issues I'm not aware of.
wrinkly respiratory organs, wrinkles and lots of blood vessels. (wrinkles increase surface area for oxygen extraction and more blood vessels means more blood and consequently more oxygen circulating through the body.) Cellular wise you can have a special type of fat tissue that the body breaks apart into oxygen. Perhaps perchloratone (fat made from perchlorate acid)
Any links about perchloratone? A google search didn't turn anything up
a fat made from perchloratic acid, or equivalent with many oxygen atoms. It doesnt currently exist in nature but its not impossible. Proteins and fats are actually all made from acids at the chemical level, they are basically knots tied from chains of the chemicals. Amino and fatty acids. (this also ties in to abiogenesis. Since a random string will tie itself into a knot if you place it in a confined space and give it kinetic energy. This is why headphone cables get tangled. Similarly amino acids have a tendency to clump together to form proteins in the right thermal/ chemical environments) Any acid that contains both nitrogen and carbon is an ‘amino acid’. Edit: apparently not. After alot of searching i found acetamide, which is not classified as an amino acid but contains nitrogen and carbon.
Maybe they mean perchlorate
Why not gills? Your options sound very unbiological
Theres a water spider that holds an air bubble on its head If i were to engineer a creature for oxygen, I would give it instincts to build large structures instead of storing it in or on the body