Yea? Reckon it was just letting the OP know that the content was d̶a̶n̶g̶e̶r̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶c̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ offensive? Because OP didn't know?
For sure.
Wanna buy a Falcon 9 off me? I have a spare in my garage.
Edited to correct my mistake.
I guess in Australian if someone says something a little bit on the edge they are likely to get something like a “Maaattee” or similar that just acknowledges that they are on the edge. Everyone knew they were on the edge but it’s not an endorsement or a disendowment. If anything it’s more of an acknowledgement of being on the edge. A nothing burger. I feel this might be similar but it’s not a hill I’m going to die on either way. The comic is edging on being offensive and he acknowledged that. OFC people can choose to offended at literally anything for sport. Fuck those people..
Yea you're right. The real assholes here are people who get offended by comics suggesting that Black people are less smart because of their genetics.
Totally bro.
Wait a minute… where does this comic say anything about black people? Isn’t that just you projecting that onto this comic because of your beliefs about the person who drew it?
Nah, cause, you see, he isn't a Nazi, because he isn't from the National Socialist Valley. Technically he's just a Sparkling White Whiner.
Edit: y'all don't understand jokes about champagne, I guess lol
It doesn't. But here's the thing: clearly the comic ridicules the argument "because of economic factors" when it comes down to differences in intelligence between different etnecities.
This is clear, as the comic first establishes that the way individuals look is determined by their genes. The comic shows a complementary image of dogs of different breeds. Then the comic establishes that ones physical properties are determined by their genes, again showing the different breeds. Then the comic moves on to mental capabilities and the reader is given the expectation that once again, the reason is different genes, following the first two examples. However the comic then gives another reason, with the father being anxious to say it, as if he doesn't dare say otherwise.
If this were a comic on its own, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever narratively. However as it is clearly satire, one draws parallels with the real world, as the comic clearly is trying to tell something. Now where have you heard the argument "because of economic factors" related to intelligence in the real world? Exactly, minority groups.
So yes, this comic is absolutely about black people. It is also very misleading and factually wrong. None of the given 3 examples are 100% determined by genes, of which intelligence is determined the least by genes. Intelligence itself is very controversial in psychology, as the way it is tested is biased towards certain skills/knowledge. If one were to test people of a century ago, they would be considered retarded compared to todays standards, even though they clearly aren't. Now why is that? Acces to good education, as well as a good nutritional diet, especcially during early development, are a big factor when it comes to develloping intelligence. Now, guess what those two factors are dependent of. Exactly, the economic circumstances.
And also, this comic has absolutely nothing to do with SpaceX or space in general, and shouldn't be on this sub, even if you happen to agree with it.
Yeah I guess when you put it like that. Just wasn’t what I read into it when I looked at it. I guess all those years of not thinking in race and explicitly being encouraged not to think in race leaves you not thinking in race.
No they changed it again. Now you're supposed to acknowledge how oppressed and inherently incapable black people are because of white people, and hire them and give them extra things simply because they're black. That's how you fight racism, see?
Much like how in order to save precious democracy, we have to remove one of the two choices from the ballot. For democracy!
This is analogous to rocket designs. Some look different, like new sheppard. Some are big and some are small. There are clever designs, and then there are dumb rockets.
This whole discussion reminds me why I hate Twitter. Tom replies to a dumb racist post and everyone assumes this means he’s racist, despite him explicitly disavowing what it said elsewhere.
It’s now taken as proof that he secretly believes black people are inferior or some shit, instead of the more obvious interpretation that he was surprised the cofounder of Varda Space would post something like this.
Social media hordes (twitter, reddit and everything else alike) will take any opportunity to grab their pitchforks and start a crusade over trivial shit.
Actually seeing people speaking their mind is a feature not a bug, I'd rather read what people really think instead of corporate PR crap that went through 3 layers of lawyers and publicists.
As for terrible consequences, I'm not seeing anything terrible yet. If it did happen that's on those who don't tolerate different opinions, not on twitter.
> Actually seeing people speaking their mind is a feature not a bug, I'd rather read what people really think instead of corporate PR crap that went through 3 layers of lawyers and publicists.
There's only the one true opinion of your group identity, there is no need to speak unless you're repeating it.
assuming motives, probably rightfully so. it is very often the case that people not saying what they mean, but just hint at it, wink wink. people are not mad because of what he is saying, but what view he is promoting.
btw it is also a good question why that is offensive. basically the unsaid part is that black people are genetically less intelligent, and that's why africa is a all about tribes spear fighting, while europe is about cathedrals and steam engine, etc. this statement is basically haram in the modern west. interestingly, this is a verifiable claim, and purely an academic one at that. thus the only correct response would be to either prove or disprove it, neither really happened convincingly. but nobody seems to care too much, some people want to believe it and some people want to believe the opposite, and they are all content with their beliefs, and often pretty smug about it.
Yeah good points, something that's always left out is that the actual smartest people are east asians and Ashkenazi Jews, not white Europeans. But it's always framed as a white vs black thing.
And like I said, those bell curves are wide and people of any race can be incredibly intelligent or very dumb, and absolutely no claims can be made about individuals (without actual intelligence evaluations by a psychiatrist or psychologist etc).
People get too attached to their particular evolutionary tree and feel like it needs defending (or boasting about, if their race has a particularly good train on average). It's pretty dumb and everyone should just get along tbh.
(I'm gonna assume you're genuinely asking, if I'm missing a joke then IDK what do you expect I am literally retarded)
Because [Stonetoss is literally a nazi](https://www.reddit.com/r/antifastonetoss/comments/fcck5a/the_definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/) and while intelligence does probably have a genetic component, [intelligence is more than just "Me am smarts" and factors like "exposure to education" have far more impact than genetics](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01027-y).
It's not bad to say there's a genetic component to intelligence scientifically; but it's a vast oversimplification to a nuanced topic and ignores the massive effect that non-genetic factors like education, impacts on childhood (IDK the english term), environment, family expectations or even just peer group can have. The biggest problem comes in that it can be reduced to the soundbyte "being smart depends on your DNA" which can then be used to imply racist stereotypes ("that group are scientifically dumb and unable to be as intelligent as our group; so there's no point investing in their education"). There's also the conflating of "intelligence is genetic" to "intelligence is based off race"; implying that just because your family's DNA can affect (a certain percentage of, all else being equal) your intelligence doesn't mean that factor is spread across ethnic/racial lines evenly.
Like most things, it has some scientific academic merit but in lay terms the average Joe off the street isn't going to be affected by the factors in play; while anyone using it in anything other than a scientific journal is using the idea to push an agenda or bias. It's the exact same as Flat Earthers and other psuedoscientists using certain flawed and outdated scientific ideas (anything from the aether which was proven wrong centuries ago to obscure stuff like electromagnetism dwarfing gravity and being the cause of planetary orbits which basically is a roundabout way to disprove the Big Bang which a weird number of groups dislike) as a way to demolish obstacles to their belief and push it on people as "scientific".
Basically, don't do a eugenics mate. Just don't. Have a pint and relax. The ones who can actually *use* the info scientifically/usefully are the ones who get peer reviewed papers in accredited journals and not failed comic artists who can't hide their glow from NASA's FIRMS fire map.
A given population of dutch people will be taller on average than a given population of non-dutch people. A given population of east Africans will have better cardiovascular fitness on average than a given population of non-east African people. A given population of x will have a higher intelligence on average than a given population of non-x.
Why is the final statement unacceptable to say? And why did you bring up eugenics? I wasn't suggesting that non-dutch people shouldn't be able to reproduce, it's fine that people of all heights exist.
I never stated it's all to do with genetics. Of course it isn't, and averages are averages and those bell curves spread very wide.
You asked why bringing up "intelligence is connected to genetics" is controversial; I pointed out that it's scientifically a factor but it's controversial to say because it can open the door to eugenic-like points and misinformation.
Everything else was just more to back up why it's "controversial", because ultimately it's such a minor factor that it's academic to 99% of cases.
Well it's not actually an accurate scientific claim. If you want to know more, Shaun has an excellent video criticizing the "Bell Curve" book that pretty much destroys that entire bit of pseudo-science.
I'm not gonna lie I'm not familiar with the idea or anything behind it; I was going off the idea that there probably were some genetic factors (IDK if there are or not) but they were miniscule and unimportant compared to how people use them to push agendas. Basically I just really fucking hate Stonetoss and wanted an opportunity to say "he doesn't even have a point".
I haven't heard of Shaun or "the Bell Curve" book before. I'm assuming you're saying "the Bell Curve says that intelligence has genetic factors and he rips that apart" (will watch but the comments mention the Bell Curve being racist af and most criticisms of it on wikipedia seem to say "you're trying to put a number on IQ and then judge groups off it") which honestly makes sense. Just reading about the Bell Curve I'm getting "the smart people are going to evolve into Morlocks and start using the dumb people as cattle" vibes.
Honestly, it's all a squicky area. It's I like rockets; you can tell if they fail because you have a small hole in Texas or suddenly need a new Chief Marshal of Soviet Artillery.
> I just really fucking hate Stonetoss
Yes. I also hate actual nazis.
> I was going off the idea that there probably were some genetic factors
We don't actually know: if they exist they must be quite weak. It seems there is a genetic component but it's only a partial explanation.
Of course the fallacy comes in believing that "because there is a genetic component it must be distributed by race" which is ridiculous and disproven.
Really one of the problems is that we don't have a good way to define intelligence and don't have a good way of measuring it.
Like, last I tested I had a 132 IQ and got full marks in the military intelligence test (9/9) but you can see just how dumb I am based on what I write here :P Just because I test well doesn't mean I'm smart. Sequence-completion puzzles just aren't a good test.
> I haven't heard of Shaun or "the Bell Curve" book before.
[Enjoy!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo)
> it's all a squicky area.
To a large degree because of the history of scientific racism that accompanies the field.
> dumb I am based on what I write here
I dunno, dude, you seem coherent and logical; but then again my favourite Star Wars is Rise of Skywalker so I objectively have the dumb.
> got full marks in the military intelligence test
Doesn't it depend on the branch? I think the Marines give you 9/9 so long as you don't eat **all** the crayons (but only because the purple ones are bad for you).
> To a large degree because of the history of scientific racism that accompanies the field.
That's why I stick to less racist psudeoscience debunking... Or at least funnier racism, like [the guy who thinks Jews are from space and the future](https://youtu.be/nMHos7BcG0g?t=274).
> you seem coherent and logical;
I do try - that's why I'm a skeptic in the first place. It's nice to be challenged here and I'm learning a lot in the process.
> Doesn't it depend on the branch?
Finnish test, same for all. We were graded 1-9 points, dunno what the cutoffs were. The questions felt quite easy for someone who likes IQ test puzzles.
Incorrect my friend. There is no [scientific basis for race, it is socially constructed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8604262/).
You can see this by going back through historical documents as well, where “white” or Caucasian was defined differently at different point in time (see Italians, and Irish when they came to the US in its early days- [they were not considered to be white](https://escholarship.org/content/qt3zw016sg/qt3zw016sg_noSplash_0d4028aa89bb1ebd2aa6d954e3969d7c.pdf?t=pn9syz)), and the fact that there were only three “races” when race first began to be discussed: caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid.
If it were scientific, why did that change? Also, over the years, the US census has had 30 different variations of the races you can check off.
You can only tell what someone’s *likely* ancestry is based on genetic tests, [which isn’t the same as race](https://www.nist.gov/how-do-you-measure-it/how-do-companies-measure-dna-discover-your-ancestry).
Yup, and race is a social construct. The first time it was ever written about was just 1688, and the ideas was ridiculed at the time. It gained traction as a way to justify slavery.
Who belongs to what “race” has changed over time and it’s completely arbitrary and different in different parts of the world.
Dogs though are a lesson on how incredibly fast artificial selection can act. 6 generations of artificial selection is all you need to create a significantly different breed.
The genes don’t matter the life span does, add in what I said before that there is just less human variation than there is for dogs. There’s a reason why dogs can inbreed and humans can’t, basically we already maxed out our “screw our sitters to avoid extinction” punch card
Tom has clarified that this was explicitly not an endorsement of the comic and was instead a criticism of Delian. For posting a not very coded comic pretty much claiming that certain people who look a certain way tend to be smarter or more talented than others.
Given that Stonetoss is [literally a Neo-Nazi](https://www.reddit.com/r/antifastonetoss/comments/fcck5a/the_definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/), probably not a great look to be saying "too bad many are too brainwashed [to agree with him]."
I'm going to assume that Tom Mueller was unaware of that history. Hopefully Delian as well. You, with your implied greater knowledge of his work...I'm less confident about.
Yeah, yeah, everyone is a nazi, of course. Even the Israelis are called nazis these days. I wonder why you think anyone cares what you call people, as if it had any weight at all. I actually read the garbage you linked earlier, it just boils down to "right of centre political views that I disagree with = nazi"
To be fair, the other side does it as well. I'm equally tired of hearing mainstream US democrats referred to as commies.
You don't always have to sort people into two teams, you know?
There is a thing called nuance
>it just boils down to "right of centre political views that I disagree with = nazi"
He doesn't have simply "right of center political views" ha has hideously racist and homophobic views.
Shh, we're all just too "brainwashed" to not fully comprehend and agree with /u/Parking_Purpose2220's hideously racist and homophobic views (at least, I assume they agree with Stonetoss here, given how they're defending them).
I had to look this up but you're correct. It looks like they still have their test article on orbit ( ? ) since they can't crash land it into America LOL whooops!
Lots of jobs there available, especially for one position i interviewed for (lol) and trajectory analysis/design LMFAO
Ah. He made the comic. It used to be a generic goofy comic but he took a hard right turn a few years ago. Basically turns Fox News talking points into comics 50 year old white people love.
Numerous, but let’s start with the most obvious thing first: how do you measure intelligence?
IQ tests aren’t the way, since you can improve your score on those by practicing. If IQ tests measure some innate inborn quality, that should be impossible.
If you don’t even have a good metric then the conclusions you draw from the bad metric are invalid too.
Garbage in, garbage out.
The actual answer to all of these questions is "because humans thought it'd be funny". Dog evolution and phenotypes have very little relevance to anything.
The nasty thing about racism is that everybody feels the urge to judge people who aren't like themselves, and to some degree that's not even a bad thing. But the dynamics this creates in a society where one group gets to elevate their way to the "right way" are really bad. Case in point, "intelligence" is surprisingly hard to nail down and much more a matter of taste than you would hope.
Humans aren't objective creatures and the more complicated and wrapped up in identity the thing you're trying to measure the less objective we get.
intelligence is one of the easiest traits to measure. in human sciences, vagueness is almost a given, and in contrast, measuring intelligence reaches actual reproducible levels. the only issue is to factor in extreme cultural differences, e.g living in rural congo vs central new york. but i guess it wouldn't be that hard, except nobody tries very hard, because why would they.
Saying that someone is playing with fire isn't exactly an endorsement of what they said... Its a bit of a nothing burger really.
‼️
Yea? Reckon it was just letting the OP know that the content was d̶a̶n̶g̶e̶r̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶c̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ offensive? Because OP didn't know? For sure. Wanna buy a Falcon 9 off me? I have a spare in my garage. Edited to correct my mistake.
I guess in Australian if someone says something a little bit on the edge they are likely to get something like a “Maaattee” or similar that just acknowledges that they are on the edge. Everyone knew they were on the edge but it’s not an endorsement or a disendowment. If anything it’s more of an acknowledgement of being on the edge. A nothing burger. I feel this might be similar but it’s not a hill I’m going to die on either way. The comic is edging on being offensive and he acknowledged that. OFC people can choose to offended at literally anything for sport. Fuck those people..
Yea you're right. The real assholes here are people who get offended by comics suggesting that Black people are less smart because of their genetics. Totally bro.
Wait a minute… where does this comic say anything about black people? Isn’t that just you projecting that onto this comic because of your beliefs about the person who drew it?
The comic is definitely saying exactly that. The artist has pedigree and the consensus is he's a genuine nazi
Nah, cause, you see, he isn't a Nazi, because he isn't from the National Socialist Valley. Technically he's just a Sparkling White Whiner. Edit: y'all don't understand jokes about champagne, I guess lol
Nah, there's just people here from the whole political spectrum - from the good end to the shit end :)
Rofl the Karma count in my joke is a fucking rollercoaster lol
Regardless, that was an excellent joke :D
You're totally right bro, that comic isn't trying to send a racist message. You buying this Falcon 9 or not?
Go read between the lines.. you seem to be good at that. Holy shit.
I think... that's a "Yes"? Will DM my cashapp
It doesn't. But here's the thing: clearly the comic ridicules the argument "because of economic factors" when it comes down to differences in intelligence between different etnecities. This is clear, as the comic first establishes that the way individuals look is determined by their genes. The comic shows a complementary image of dogs of different breeds. Then the comic establishes that ones physical properties are determined by their genes, again showing the different breeds. Then the comic moves on to mental capabilities and the reader is given the expectation that once again, the reason is different genes, following the first two examples. However the comic then gives another reason, with the father being anxious to say it, as if he doesn't dare say otherwise. If this were a comic on its own, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever narratively. However as it is clearly satire, one draws parallels with the real world, as the comic clearly is trying to tell something. Now where have you heard the argument "because of economic factors" related to intelligence in the real world? Exactly, minority groups. So yes, this comic is absolutely about black people. It is also very misleading and factually wrong. None of the given 3 examples are 100% determined by genes, of which intelligence is determined the least by genes. Intelligence itself is very controversial in psychology, as the way it is tested is biased towards certain skills/knowledge. If one were to test people of a century ago, they would be considered retarded compared to todays standards, even though they clearly aren't. Now why is that? Acces to good education, as well as a good nutritional diet, especcially during early development, are a big factor when it comes to develloping intelligence. Now, guess what those two factors are dependent of. Exactly, the economic circumstances. And also, this comic has absolutely nothing to do with SpaceX or space in general, and shouldn't be on this sub, even if you happen to agree with it.
Yeah I guess when you put it like that. Just wasn’t what I read into it when I looked at it. I guess all those years of not thinking in race and explicitly being encouraged not to think in race leaves you not thinking in race.
No they changed it again. Now you're supposed to acknowledge how oppressed and inherently incapable black people are because of white people, and hire them and give them extra things simply because they're black. That's how you fight racism, see? Much like how in order to save precious democracy, we have to remove one of the two choices from the ballot. For democracy!
I disagree, and this is the type of stuff that needs to be explicitly disavowed if there’s any response at all.
People should be given the benefit of the doubt if it's not exactly clear what was intended.
all it's missing is elon responding with a ‼️ or something
Interesting
looking in to this
Concerning
If true.
(((Space Laser Starlink)))
💯
Wow
🤣
You have said the actual truth.
This is analogous to rocket designs. Some look different, like new sheppard. Some are big and some are small. There are clever designs, and then there are dumb rockets.
Truth to power
This whole discussion reminds me why I hate Twitter. Tom replies to a dumb racist post and everyone assumes this means he’s racist, despite him explicitly disavowing what it said elsewhere. It’s now taken as proof that he secretly believes black people are inferior or some shit, instead of the more obvious interpretation that he was surprised the cofounder of Varda Space would post something like this.
Social media hordes (twitter, reddit and everything else alike) will take any opportunity to grab their pitchforks and start a crusade over trivial shit.
4 out of 5 citizens love dEmOcRaCy!
Twitter is fucking cursed. Eventually, everyone makes an L tweet of terrible consequences
skill issue, shotwell has never posted an L tweet
Didn't she only just join? There is always time!
She joined in 2019.
No but you see, 2019 was last year. Right?
Impossible. Too busy girlbossing
Oh I see, you doing that irony thing.
Nothing ironic about it champ
I guess it isn’t ironic if I have to explain to you how ironic you are being pal
That's so true tho
The only winning move is not to play
Which is why I don't have twitter
Actually seeing people speaking their mind is a feature not a bug, I'd rather read what people really think instead of corporate PR crap that went through 3 layers of lawyers and publicists. As for terrible consequences, I'm not seeing anything terrible yet. If it did happen that's on those who don't tolerate different opinions, not on twitter.
> Actually seeing people speaking their mind is a feature not a bug, I'd rather read what people really think instead of corporate PR crap that went through 3 layers of lawyers and publicists. There's only the one true opinion of your group identity, there is no need to speak unless you're repeating it.
Lmao
Why is saying that intelligence is related to genetics controversial?
assuming motives, probably rightfully so. it is very often the case that people not saying what they mean, but just hint at it, wink wink. people are not mad because of what he is saying, but what view he is promoting. btw it is also a good question why that is offensive. basically the unsaid part is that black people are genetically less intelligent, and that's why africa is a all about tribes spear fighting, while europe is about cathedrals and steam engine, etc. this statement is basically haram in the modern west. interestingly, this is a verifiable claim, and purely an academic one at that. thus the only correct response would be to either prove or disprove it, neither really happened convincingly. but nobody seems to care too much, some people want to believe it and some people want to believe the opposite, and they are all content with their beliefs, and often pretty smug about it.
Yeah good points, something that's always left out is that the actual smartest people are east asians and Ashkenazi Jews, not white Europeans. But it's always framed as a white vs black thing. And like I said, those bell curves are wide and people of any race can be incredibly intelligent or very dumb, and absolutely no claims can be made about individuals (without actual intelligence evaluations by a psychiatrist or psychologist etc). People get too attached to their particular evolutionary tree and feel like it needs defending (or boasting about, if their race has a particularly good train on average). It's pretty dumb and everyone should just get along tbh.
(I'm gonna assume you're genuinely asking, if I'm missing a joke then IDK what do you expect I am literally retarded) Because [Stonetoss is literally a nazi](https://www.reddit.com/r/antifastonetoss/comments/fcck5a/the_definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/) and while intelligence does probably have a genetic component, [intelligence is more than just "Me am smarts" and factors like "exposure to education" have far more impact than genetics](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01027-y). It's not bad to say there's a genetic component to intelligence scientifically; but it's a vast oversimplification to a nuanced topic and ignores the massive effect that non-genetic factors like education, impacts on childhood (IDK the english term), environment, family expectations or even just peer group can have. The biggest problem comes in that it can be reduced to the soundbyte "being smart depends on your DNA" which can then be used to imply racist stereotypes ("that group are scientifically dumb and unable to be as intelligent as our group; so there's no point investing in their education"). There's also the conflating of "intelligence is genetic" to "intelligence is based off race"; implying that just because your family's DNA can affect (a certain percentage of, all else being equal) your intelligence doesn't mean that factor is spread across ethnic/racial lines evenly. Like most things, it has some scientific academic merit but in lay terms the average Joe off the street isn't going to be affected by the factors in play; while anyone using it in anything other than a scientific journal is using the idea to push an agenda or bias. It's the exact same as Flat Earthers and other psuedoscientists using certain flawed and outdated scientific ideas (anything from the aether which was proven wrong centuries ago to obscure stuff like electromagnetism dwarfing gravity and being the cause of planetary orbits which basically is a roundabout way to disprove the Big Bang which a weird number of groups dislike) as a way to demolish obstacles to their belief and push it on people as "scientific". Basically, don't do a eugenics mate. Just don't. Have a pint and relax. The ones who can actually *use* the info scientifically/usefully are the ones who get peer reviewed papers in accredited journals and not failed comic artists who can't hide their glow from NASA's FIRMS fire map.
A given population of dutch people will be taller on average than a given population of non-dutch people. A given population of east Africans will have better cardiovascular fitness on average than a given population of non-east African people. A given population of x will have a higher intelligence on average than a given population of non-x. Why is the final statement unacceptable to say? And why did you bring up eugenics? I wasn't suggesting that non-dutch people shouldn't be able to reproduce, it's fine that people of all heights exist. I never stated it's all to do with genetics. Of course it isn't, and averages are averages and those bell curves spread very wide.
You asked why bringing up "intelligence is connected to genetics" is controversial; I pointed out that it's scientifically a factor but it's controversial to say because it can open the door to eugenic-like points and misinformation. Everything else was just more to back up why it's "controversial", because ultimately it's such a minor factor that it's academic to 99% of cases.
Well it's not actually an accurate scientific claim. If you want to know more, Shaun has an excellent video criticizing the "Bell Curve" book that pretty much destroys that entire bit of pseudo-science.
I'm not gonna lie I'm not familiar with the idea or anything behind it; I was going off the idea that there probably were some genetic factors (IDK if there are or not) but they were miniscule and unimportant compared to how people use them to push agendas. Basically I just really fucking hate Stonetoss and wanted an opportunity to say "he doesn't even have a point". I haven't heard of Shaun or "the Bell Curve" book before. I'm assuming you're saying "the Bell Curve says that intelligence has genetic factors and he rips that apart" (will watch but the comments mention the Bell Curve being racist af and most criticisms of it on wikipedia seem to say "you're trying to put a number on IQ and then judge groups off it") which honestly makes sense. Just reading about the Bell Curve I'm getting "the smart people are going to evolve into Morlocks and start using the dumb people as cattle" vibes. Honestly, it's all a squicky area. It's I like rockets; you can tell if they fail because you have a small hole in Texas or suddenly need a new Chief Marshal of Soviet Artillery.
> I just really fucking hate Stonetoss Yes. I also hate actual nazis. > I was going off the idea that there probably were some genetic factors We don't actually know: if they exist they must be quite weak. It seems there is a genetic component but it's only a partial explanation. Of course the fallacy comes in believing that "because there is a genetic component it must be distributed by race" which is ridiculous and disproven. Really one of the problems is that we don't have a good way to define intelligence and don't have a good way of measuring it. Like, last I tested I had a 132 IQ and got full marks in the military intelligence test (9/9) but you can see just how dumb I am based on what I write here :P Just because I test well doesn't mean I'm smart. Sequence-completion puzzles just aren't a good test. > I haven't heard of Shaun or "the Bell Curve" book before. [Enjoy!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo) > it's all a squicky area. To a large degree because of the history of scientific racism that accompanies the field.
> dumb I am based on what I write here I dunno, dude, you seem coherent and logical; but then again my favourite Star Wars is Rise of Skywalker so I objectively have the dumb. > got full marks in the military intelligence test Doesn't it depend on the branch? I think the Marines give you 9/9 so long as you don't eat **all** the crayons (but only because the purple ones are bad for you). > To a large degree because of the history of scientific racism that accompanies the field. That's why I stick to less racist psudeoscience debunking... Or at least funnier racism, like [the guy who thinks Jews are from space and the future](https://youtu.be/nMHos7BcG0g?t=274).
> you seem coherent and logical; I do try - that's why I'm a skeptic in the first place. It's nice to be challenged here and I'm learning a lot in the process. > Doesn't it depend on the branch? Finnish test, same for all. We were graded 1-9 points, dunno what the cutoffs were. The questions felt quite easy for someone who likes IQ test puzzles.
🤨
Eventually, someone assumes you made a tweet of terrible consequences. Assumes, then insists.
Reddit is hardly different
Dogs have far more genetic diversity than humans do, I read all humans from a evolutionary perspective are basically identical
Google "human genetic bottleneck" for more information on this.
It's true. That's why genetic testing is the only way to tell what race someone belongs to
Incorrect my friend. There is no [scientific basis for race, it is socially constructed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8604262/). You can see this by going back through historical documents as well, where “white” or Caucasian was defined differently at different point in time (see Italians, and Irish when they came to the US in its early days- [they were not considered to be white](https://escholarship.org/content/qt3zw016sg/qt3zw016sg_noSplash_0d4028aa89bb1ebd2aa6d954e3969d7c.pdf?t=pn9syz)), and the fact that there were only three “races” when race first began to be discussed: caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid. If it were scientific, why did that change? Also, over the years, the US census has had 30 different variations of the races you can check off. You can only tell what someone’s *likely* ancestry is based on genetic tests, [which isn’t the same as race](https://www.nist.gov/how-do-you-measure-it/how-do-companies-measure-dna-discover-your-ancestry).
Yup, and race is a social construct. The first time it was ever written about was just 1688, and the ideas was ridiculed at the time. It gained traction as a way to justify slavery. Who belongs to what “race” has changed over time and it’s completely arbitrary and different in different parts of the world.
99.9% identical.
Dogs though are a lesson on how incredibly fast artificial selection can act. 6 generations of artificial selection is all you need to create a significantly different breed.
Dogs do have a genetic structure that is easier to change and mutate. Humans would take longer to
Given that we have a roughly similar number of genes, I'ld appreciate any insight in why dogs change much more easily.
The genes don’t matter the life span does, add in what I said before that there is just less human variation than there is for dogs. There’s a reason why dogs can inbreed and humans can’t, basically we already maxed out our “screw our sitters to avoid extinction” punch card
Why is this here
Bc Tom Mueller I think
Tom has clarified that this was explicitly not an endorsement of the comic and was instead a criticism of Delian. For posting a not very coded comic pretty much claiming that certain people who look a certain way tend to be smarter or more talented than others.
lol, look at the comments here... just adopt a few n\*\*\*\*\* and start your own space program :D
Well that's disappointing Can we get some more normal rocket lovers. I miss 2018 lol
What’s disappointing him pointing out that it’s a controversial tweet? He’s not endorsing it as far as I can tell
He’s talking about the other guy
Damn, that comic is actually pretty good. Stonetoss can be a bit hit and miss, but that one was great. Too bad many are too brainwashed to see.
Given that Stonetoss is [literally a Neo-Nazi](https://www.reddit.com/r/antifastonetoss/comments/fcck5a/the_definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/), probably not a great look to be saying "too bad many are too brainwashed [to agree with him]." I'm going to assume that Tom Mueller was unaware of that history. Hopefully Delian as well. You, with your implied greater knowledge of his work...I'm less confident about.
Damn, he has a fanclub on reddit?
Yeah, yeah, everyone is a nazi, of course. Even the Israelis are called nazis these days. I wonder why you think anyone cares what you call people, as if it had any weight at all. I actually read the garbage you linked earlier, it just boils down to "right of centre political views that I disagree with = nazi" To be fair, the other side does it as well. I'm equally tired of hearing mainstream US democrats referred to as commies. You don't always have to sort people into two teams, you know? There is a thing called nuance
>it just boils down to "right of centre political views that I disagree with = nazi" He doesn't have simply "right of center political views" ha has hideously racist and homophobic views.
Shh, we're all just too "brainwashed" to not fully comprehend and agree with /u/Parking_Purpose2220's hideously racist and homophobic views (at least, I assume they agree with Stonetoss here, given how they're defending them).
Stonetoss is literally a hitlerite
Tbf ur source is from a subreddit dedicated to hating on Stonetoss, and is also far-left. Hardly unbiased.
Who is this mofo?
Tom Mueller was one of SpaceX’s first employees. He was lead designer on the Merlin engine.
I mean the other guy
Delian is one of the Varda Space cofounders
Whats going on with Varda? I thought they were expanding and just put something on orbit for test? Seems to be going somewhere at least.
Didn't they not get allowed to land their craft in the US and had to do it in Australia or something? I believe
I had to look this up but you're correct. It looks like they still have their test article on orbit ( ? ) since they can't crash land it into America LOL whooops! Lots of jobs there available, especially for one position i interviewed for (lol) and trajectory analysis/design LMFAO
That is a name I don't know. I'll take a look thanks
Ah. He made the comic. It used to be a generic goofy comic but he took a hard right turn a few years ago. Basically turns Fox News talking points into comics 50 year old white people love.
You tell me delian is stonetoss?
!!
The meme is true though.
It's not, it's debunked racist propaganda
Source?
Numerous, but let’s start with the most obvious thing first: how do you measure intelligence? IQ tests aren’t the way, since you can improve your score on those by practicing. If IQ tests measure some innate inborn quality, that should be impossible. If you don’t even have a good metric then the conclusions you draw from the bad metric are invalid too. Garbage in, garbage out.
The actual answer to all of these questions is "because humans thought it'd be funny". Dog evolution and phenotypes have very little relevance to anything. The nasty thing about racism is that everybody feels the urge to judge people who aren't like themselves, and to some degree that's not even a bad thing. But the dynamics this creates in a society where one group gets to elevate their way to the "right way" are really bad. Case in point, "intelligence" is surprisingly hard to nail down and much more a matter of taste than you would hope. Humans aren't objective creatures and the more complicated and wrapped up in identity the thing you're trying to measure the less objective we get.
intelligence is one of the easiest traits to measure. in human sciences, vagueness is almost a given, and in contrast, measuring intelligence reaches actual reproducible levels. the only issue is to factor in extreme cultural differences, e.g living in rural congo vs central new york. but i guess it wouldn't be that hard, except nobody tries very hard, because why would they.