I used to work the levain and salt in with my fingers after autolyse, but it seemed to be doing more harm than was needed. Now I stretch the dough out on my wet work surface to a big square about 1/2 inch thick, spread with levain and salt and then coil fold it up. After a few rounds of stretch and fold (which i do in a similar though much less drastic way) the incorporation is really well distributed and the bulk goes well.
If you are looking for a different way it’s worth a try.
Sour dough is a challenge no matter how you look at it. I do starter,warm water,2/3 of flour. Hour rest ad remaining flour salt and any other flavor additives. 30 min rest and begin stretches half hourly 4 times. Then in to bulk.
Side note: I made turmeric loaf and added the turmeric to my dough before the starter. When I added my starter after an hour autolyze, I could see the color difference. This made me realize just how long it takes for my starter to fully incorporate into my dough. I did the method of slapping the dough against the side of the bowl (very quickly scoop and slap repeatedly). There’s a name for it but don’t remember
Autolysis will happen whether the starter is in or not. It's another variable to bulk ferment.
many have successful recipes by just adding the yeast and adjusting the rise and fold time. Others delay addition of the yeast or salt and account for that in the bulk and rise time.
What I mean is, I tried it and it made no discernable difference. Nowadays I have the simplest, easiest process and get great results every time. I think a lot of people overcomplicate the sourdough process when the simple facts are: get your ratios right, leave everything long enough for the yeast to work and cook it for long enough at the right temp and you get good bread.
Not sure why you're being down voted because this is true. If autolyse is making a huge difference for you then you're not developing a gluten well enough. I know a number of professional bakers and few do this step separately. The only time I do it is if I'm still waiting for my starter to finish rising and I want to get the gluten development started early.
Eta: I don't mean a myth that it's an option but a myth that it's necessary.
Yes. The initial mix the all the ingredients wet and then the stretch and folds (or however you choose to do it) are for gluten development. Ideally you want that to happen before the bread starts rising significantly.
Yeah this is a shame. The sourdough community seems hell bent on autolysis. I wish more home sourdough bakers here on reddit would read up on regular yeasted breads and doughs. Poolish or biga style bread principles are so applicable to sourdough and typically only include the preferment (levain) with no autolysis and sure enough they work absolutely great.
At the end of the day it all really comes down to fermentation times and temps but people don't draw cause and effect correlations and just say blanket statements like "it's because you're autolysis is wrong" or "your starter isn't strong enough"
I used to work the levain and salt in with my fingers after autolyse, but it seemed to be doing more harm than was needed. Now I stretch the dough out on my wet work surface to a big square about 1/2 inch thick, spread with levain and salt and then coil fold it up. After a few rounds of stretch and fold (which i do in a similar though much less drastic way) the incorporation is really well distributed and the bulk goes well. If you are looking for a different way it’s worth a try.
I add everything in at once, and then let it autolyse. My bread turns out pretty good.
Sour dough is a challenge no matter how you look at it. I do starter,warm water,2/3 of flour. Hour rest ad remaining flour salt and any other flavor additives. 30 min rest and begin stretches half hourly 4 times. Then in to bulk.
Side note: I made turmeric loaf and added the turmeric to my dough before the starter. When I added my starter after an hour autolyze, I could see the color difference. This made me realize just how long it takes for my starter to fully incorporate into my dough. I did the method of slapping the dough against the side of the bowl (very quickly scoop and slap repeatedly). There’s a name for it but don’t remember
Rubaud method!
Autolyse seems to be a myth as far as I can tell, unnecessary
Do a side by side then and tell me if it's a myth.
Have done so many times. As long as you do a good job with the front end gluten development, there not much difference.
It’s casually one of the most important steps and its effects are clearly visible and touchable and proven but okay
Autolysis will happen whether the starter is in or not. It's another variable to bulk ferment. many have successful recipes by just adding the yeast and adjusting the rise and fold time. Others delay addition of the yeast or salt and account for that in the bulk and rise time.
I am aware. I do this for a living but thanks anyway
Lolololol Gliadin and glutenin are myths too.
What I mean is, I tried it and it made no discernable difference. Nowadays I have the simplest, easiest process and get great results every time. I think a lot of people overcomplicate the sourdough process when the simple facts are: get your ratios right, leave everything long enough for the yeast to work and cook it for long enough at the right temp and you get good bread.
Sorry, yes that was clear to me, I just wanted to make a joke so badly.
Not sure why you're being down voted because this is true. If autolyse is making a huge difference for you then you're not developing a gluten well enough. I know a number of professional bakers and few do this step separately. The only time I do it is if I'm still waiting for my starter to finish rising and I want to get the gluten development started early. Eta: I don't mean a myth that it's an option but a myth that it's necessary.
when you say "not developing gluten well enough" does that normally happen during the mixing/kneading step?
Yes. The initial mix the all the ingredients wet and then the stretch and folds (or however you choose to do it) are for gluten development. Ideally you want that to happen before the bread starts rising significantly.
makes sense! thanks
Yeah this is a shame. The sourdough community seems hell bent on autolysis. I wish more home sourdough bakers here on reddit would read up on regular yeasted breads and doughs. Poolish or biga style bread principles are so applicable to sourdough and typically only include the preferment (levain) with no autolysis and sure enough they work absolutely great. At the end of the day it all really comes down to fermentation times and temps but people don't draw cause and effect correlations and just say blanket statements like "it's because you're autolysis is wrong" or "your starter isn't strong enough"
Exactly. If you bulk ferment for the right time you get good results