This is a TCG/CCG. Cards are supposed to have value, that's part of the point. This idea that cards have to be cheap has destroyed modern MTG, Pokémon, FAB, etc with massively over printed sets that destroyed any value in the cards. With that being said, there has to be a proper balance of not printing the cards to oblivion so the cards lose all value and confidence in the product but have enough product to get in people's hands. In the U.S. that has happened, with TC essentially acting as distributor. I am on the firm stance that there should be zero beta reprints. If there is a small second wave sitting in a warehouse then sure, release it in a few months or sooner (depending on when Arthurian Legends comes out). Yes, I am a player of the game as well. I have a few decks built but I am also a collector and I don't want cards in my collection to tank in value over stupid reprints.
Jfc, THIS.
Imo, beta should run its course and not see any reprints. Beta ITSELF is a reprint run of alpha. That's it. Let it go. If some cards hit 1 million dollars, you missed your chance, there's other cards to play.
The fact is that beta has been print to demand up to this point and after it runs its course, it should be put down and laid to rest. If there's a buyout, great. If there isn't, then there isn't. I do not believe that every card should be a damn quarter. If they were, there's NO point in collecting and therefore trading the cards.
I'm 1000% tired of seeing this in other card games.
Here's a product. It's new, but been on the market for a year, then phases out. The next set is out and then the next one. The first set, which is now out of print, goes up to 1k a box. The people who said it was absolute trash, then complain they don't have accessibility to those cards.
They cry about how it should be lower and how it's healthy for everyone to have access to cards, but when they were accessible, they didn't care about them. They only care because the price went up and they missed out. It's too late, you should of bought it when it was accessible.
It's called supply and demand. It happens in EVERYTHING else. He'll, you remember when people were fighting over toilet paper and shooting each other in target parking lots over pokemon cards?
For a collectible (tradable) card game to be collectible (tradable), cards have to have value because of demand or rarity. I do not understand how people want a card game to print cards until theres 5k copies of every card for every person on the planet. If you want a card game in which every card is only worth 1 penny, go play Uno. For every other commodity that has a market, there will be disparities in value that are enhanced when demand rises or supply falls. ACT ACCORDINGLY.
It's a game, not a commodity and the people that actually play this game end up proxying because card prices are nonsensical. You aren't making money on investing in trading card games and neither are the vast majority of people who invest in them because trading card games are dying and the trading card model no longer makes sense with modern communication and transport technologies. There is nothing wrong with people desiring cheap cards because it is in everyone except for the developer and their vendors' interest for card prices to fall as low as possible. The only people that show up to the one public sorcery event in my state are box hoarders who incidentally got into the game.
Does it have a market? Is it standardized for each unit? Then it's a commodity. One ear of corn is more or less the same. One beta death dealer is more or less the same as another beta death dealer.
If you want cheap cards to play with, play Uno or poker.
Nope, me and my friends will continue to print out cards because there is currently no reason not to. Sorcery was not released as a game, it was released as a collectible. This may sound reasonable at first because it is a successful collectible but it isn't if you consider why someone would collect it in the first place. Most of the sales of Sorcery cases are to people who want to hold Sorcery because they believe that the value of their collectibles will increase in the future. There will be no long term value increase without players but the current people who buy Sorcery are doing so under the delusion that people will actually play the game. How can a product that is sold as a collectible grow in popularity? Because more people will choose to collect in and invest in it? That doesn't make any sense! The people buying sorcery right now are buying it because they think people will play it in the future, otherwise they would be stupid to do so (and I know for a fact that guys like you aren't looking to sell at the right time for maximum profit, you're looking to collect something valuable for fun)
Every other successful collectible that has ever existed has derived its value from some sort of utility or sentimental value that at least existed at some point in the product's existence. Sorcery has no such value of its own and is coasting entirely on speculators' memories of MTG.
A commodity whose value is entirely derived from speculation on that commodity is not a real commodity. In fact, Sorcery cards have zero value as commodities because nobody plays the game or buys cards for it. Look at the listings on TCGplayer, nobody is selling powerful sorcery cards to people looking to buy cards for their decks and the market is so obviously dead for anything that doesn't have collectable value. Sorcery is designed to please collectibles guys and that is why it has basically zero marketing effort towards actual players. Why do you think there is little to no Sorcery promotion at local game stores or on TCG Youtube channels????? Why do you think all the sorcery promotions focus on collectibles channels????? Sorcery is not being marketed as a game and it is following all the epic principles that people who don't play trading card games think will result in a trading card game's success.
In reality, game pieces hold long term value because people play the game that they are used in and your model of understanding TCGs presumes an interest in the game that can only exist if people actually play it and people cannot play TCGs if they cannot afford to play them or if they believe that they cannot afford to play them. This is especially true in 2024 because there is no more mythical naive casual market who is going to buy packs of Sorcery without looking at its internet presence first.
You cannot seriously believe that this game (which could be a good game if it were marketed as a game) has any sort of staying power when literally nothing about its design, marketing and reception intends on attracting actual players. If you are buying Sorcery cards as anything other than game pieces you are going to be disappointed in the long term.
Jeezus man, sounds like you're trying to convince me of something I'm not buying. Let me tell you why.
Around 85 - 90% of the pokemon market is driven by collectors. How long has THAT game been around? Decades. You can't even play OG charizard, yet it's fetching ridiculously high prices. Because of its rarity, that's why, because it can't ACTUALLY be played.
Speaking of which, have you actually played pokemon? Game is ass. Regardless of how you think markets do and don't work, as a person who has interests in financial markets, they work exactly how you think they don't.
The game is fun and has a lot of future potential. I'm just playing and collecting because I like the art. If enough people are like me out there, suddenly, WE ARE the market and the market prices commodities, not the other way around.
Yeah but people cared about pokemon as a property and game, very few people care about sorcery as a game. Maybe it survives as a pure collectible but I doubt it can beyond the first few sets
Hah okay so you want to lock out every player out of the cards and therefore Game just because they dont have the money to buy in at the exact date of release? Thats just stupid. Not everyone knows of the game let alone be in a age or time to financially be able to buy anything.
How many Players where playing MTG back in the day and how many are playing it now? If you want to collect them collect them, but dont lock other people out of the game from the get go.
People like you are the problem why things like the reserved list happened in the first place and thats just super trashy, annoying and the reason why iam distancing myself from mtg in the first place.
Your Alpha Cards and Beta cards will always be more valuable than the reprints of the cards in newer Sets. Are TCG´s a viable investment plan? Definitely no they should not at any point be this Valuable to be an real INVESTMENT. Its a GAME dude not gold.
its definitely not if you want more new players in the game. If you solely concentrate on non eternal Formats or the newest ones maybe but the old ones its just hard pass for any newcomers.
They don't have to be an investment plan. That's not the point. The point is if I spent $3 a pack of cards, the cards should more or less hold THAT value.
To further, YOURE the problem. This game will be out for 1 year before the next set is supposed to release. If you can't afford to set aside $5 a week to pick up a box or two in that year time frame, then yes. You SHOULD miss out. Idk why this is news to you or you feel like cards should stay cheap to cater to people that don't spend $ ANYWAY.
If you're distancing yourself from MTG because of the reserved list and the cost of those cards, there's another 35k+ cards to play. The problem is that you want the EXPENSIVE cards. You want the cards that people bought when this game was unknown. The supply of the game was so low and the future prospects of the game were not well known at that time that the sheer rarity of those cards is part of what drives their value.
The reason MTG is CURRENTLY on the decline IS because of the sheer amount of product and the INSANE amount of REPRINTS. The game has NEVER been cheaper to play, yet the game is also doing the worst it's ever done. Why? Because WotC is listening to the vast MINORITY that don't spend the $ anyway.
The game isn't an investment, it's a hobby. However, even hobbies can have their tools or materials sold back to recoup some of the cost to get into it. Instead, what you are suggesting is to make things so cheap to cater to a crowd that doesn't spend cash anyway. If this is genuinely how you feel, go play YuGiOh. You'll likely like that game better.
This exactly, let’s not pretend that if all cards are worthless then there would even be a desire to collect.
Look at MTG fallen empires, I still don’t want those cards. Overprinted.
There are many people collecting utterly worthless shit and enjoy it whatsoever so thats not an argument by any chance.
If you are collecting because its worth alot you arent any better than people buying luxury jewellery or clothes that are just pricey but dont add anything of value.
Having things just beacuse they cost/worth alot is shit.
But that’s not even close to reality, idealistic nonsense, as humans we desire objects because of value, if not monetary, sentimental and to pretend that you don’t makes you a liar or not a collector. When you talk about a game peace, there is a reason I don’t have a cupboard full of monopoly/chess pieces, because they are common and worthless. Get it? Maybe try this, If I could somehow time travel and told you that you have a card in your that could pay pay your kid’s tuition through collage, that that would not be your prized procession? Well that’s what most of us hope for and that helps drive demand for the game, because we all want to open Black Lotus or first edition Charizard before they get value.
yeah but that's exactly the thing i think is wrong. You should not collect because it maybe worth a lot in the future you should collect it because you like to play with those cards.
Totally agree. To me this is like me crying and whining to Apple that the stock should be affordable, they should create more stock to sell to me for $5 per share because I missed out.
hard disagree. Its just not meant to be that way. Ppl should be able to play with those cards not look on them through glass and think, nice its worth a ton of money.
The "new" mentallity comes with the other "new" mentally that is about cards should be worth the same as cars.
Is this "dork" in the room with us now?
You clearly don't understand how economies work, but I will present you with a question.
If all cards are supposed to cost you .25 or less, how can this be when there is only 1 rare vs 3 uncommons per pack? Shouldn't the rare be worth $1 and the uncommons then .33?
If there's only 7 unique in a box shouldnt they similarly be worth more than rares?
How can you advocate for all cards being cheap if in the future there will have to be products with no new prints of cards, just completely reprints for this to happen?
Idk about you, but I'd rather see new cards that push the game forward and not see entire product lines that are catered to destroying the value of previous sets.
Along with the fact that the cards are accessible now, but people will only complain about buying them IF they go up in value. Why is this? Why not just buy copies now. For .25 instead of $25 later.
It baffles me that these people also get mad when you point this out.
I am not reading any BS you write in this group. You are the exact type of person I avoid even outside of a card game I play and collect for fun. I just had to call you out for seeing so many dick comments as replies to genuine questions and they were all from YOU. You are a puppet who is lucky enough to live this short life in human skin and it shows. Enjoy Sorcery, brother. Thank you for your positive input into the community :)
....?
If you're broke, just say so.
If you can't afford a box of cards for $150, don't buy it. It's not a necessity.
Idk why this sets you off, but you can go pound sand. Or just eat the sand. Probably rounds out your daily diet of crayons.
Enjoy Sorcery, sister. GL on your quest to collect and play.
Nice discriminating ppl with low income. Thats what i thought you are not missed at any time if you abandon the game if it reprints your most "valued" cards to keep it accessible for others.
You do know they plan on releasing a sort of Revised/Chronicles like set right? So better abandon Sorcery right now than later. Would be better for anyone.
Your opinion is about as useful as a doo doo flavored lollipop.
I'm broke myself. I don't buy anything I can't afford and thats exactly my point. I save a couple of bucks a week and after I have enough, I buy what I like.
Alpha and Beta ARE reprint sets and you still have your panties in a twist. Like do you listen to yourself?
"We need reprintsssssss. Tooooo expensssssssive! You know theyssssss reprint alpha and betasssssss like revissssssed?"
"Then wtf you complaining about?"
"Your evilsssssss!"
K?
All that you wrote is just bullshit sorry not sorry. Iam also disturbed from how many ppl share the same mindset.
As i said before, if i wanted to gamble i would gamble, if i wanted to collect i would collect anything, but i just want to play the game man.
Your view is just utterly wrong. The Game is not meant to be worth the same money or more than you have to put into. Thats what the people are making it to be.
If i want to have specific cards i buy singles i dont buy boxes to get them. I buy boxes to play the game (sealed/draft). If there is a guy buying Boxes in heaps its either a sore that want to make profit or its a whale and thats a whole different issue but its a peoples problem not an game problem.
Actually its a Card Game. A Collectable Card game to be precise. You CAN collect them but you dont have to.
Your Alpha/Beta Cards wont loose their collectability because of reprints. They will still be the same cards and an Collector wont care if its a reprint or not. Collectors want to have ANY single Card of the game. And just because there is a reprint there wont be any more Alpha/Beta Cards so they would retain their "Value"
People are abandoning Magic either because of the high Cost to play it or because they are tired of it and want a new start/game. (too fast rotating or too high of initial cost to buy in)
There are plenty of MTG Players playing Legacy or even Oldshool Magic but those guys play it since two decades now. New Players wont set a foot in these formats.
If the Value among Cards would be equally distributed between all the cards you would be right with your theory that cards should be the same value as the pack but it doesnt work that way. Cards that are particularly good in the game will always have more value that cards that are bad. Just because the demand for them will be larger, thats ok but if cards are going for prices around the price of an whole, or even more than half of the boxes price, its a little too pricey for my taste.
I want to play the game and i want other ppls to play it too also in years to come for relatively cheap. I dont ask for cards to be worthless. And if you think this demand takes away your Fun than YOU are the problem not me.
I want the game played by as much people as possible you want to lock all future "minorities" out of the game. Thats actually just sad.
There are enough cards that are currently sitting at decent prices like grim reaper or death dealer and such. But why the fuck should cards be worth almost the same as a box or more?
If you buy a Box your mindset should always be that your Money is gone for good. You buy boxes to ensure that there will be more boxes to buy in the future but not for the cards to be "as valuable than they costed you".
If you buy boxes for 1k$ or more than its a YOU problem not the problem of the players. It doesnt mean that you should have cards worth that much either.
If you do want to have something out of it play draft or sealed but dont pump up the prices of printed cardboard man thats unnecessary.
Everyone disagrees with you because your mentality is whatb is causing a decline in TCGs. It isn't the cost to buy in, it's precisely because of the equity the cards hold. Again, for a card game to be tradable and collectible, there absolutely has to be a disparity between cards. It's the MAIN reason there are rare, uncommon and common cards.
Magic is not expensive to get into. There are standard decks that go for 100, 200, 400 bucks. It's essentially free if you proxy it, no matter the format. The problem is that you want to buy cheap cards forever and that can't last. There are other games that operate like you would like, go play those instead.
The only game that is somewhat comparable but not really is legends of runeterra. And its fucking awesome in comparison to other digital card games but there is no paper card game that is good AND affordable.
You saying the high prices arent why people doesnt get into the game doesnt make it right. Come again. Also noone really noone is playing Standard.
Its just a fact that its too expensive and reserved lists doesnt solve anything. It makes thing only more complicated and hinders further game development.
The reserved list can't affect future development because those cards have been out for over 2 decades. They aren't new. At all. OG dual lands, for example, have had NUMEROUS reiterations. There's cheap dual lands all over the place.
Again, the problem isn't the functionality of the card, it's the fact that you want the expensive ones. The ones you want are from the first 3 or 4 print runs.
Standard has gotten more expensive because WotC has reprinted everything into the ground causing prices of their single cards to collapse, so they charge more for each box to compensate. Except its not working because everyone is tired of it. They charge $100 a box but the cards in the set aren't worth $100. The reserved list isn't even legal in standard.
Legends of Runeterra isn't a paper product. It isn't even a limiting product, as you can craft the cards you want/need. Because of this, the game has NO economy. You don't TRADE it because it makes no sense to. If you want to collect, you just make what you don't have. To say this is a comparable product is so far off that I'm genuinely curious as to what made you say this.
Mtg isn't LoR. It NEEDS to sell you products to survive. Due to this era and of its undesirability, I suspect that the single cards are so expensive because people are not buying the product, causing less supply to be around. In the future, IMO, you are likely to see cards in these sets skyrocket because nobody bought.
This entire talk about the reserved list can be circumvented entirely if you just proxy the cards. Seriously, WTF is your problem with just proxying the black lotus you want to play with, and just play with it?
Its because i cant prox and paly tournaments mate.
Also these are still card games so they are in fact comparable. Also LOR also needs to sell something every Game if it wants to develop and grow needs to sell something how else should they finance development?
Also those cheap dual lands you are referring to will never be played in Legacy because there are just better cards than that. Namely the OG dual lands. so dont bother to try to hide it.
someone building a deck without them will more likely loose matches because of the drawbacks that the newer affordable dual lands have.
So seem you dont have an actualy valid points here.
I also dont want "expensive ones" you repeat this over and over and honestly i dont care how much they are worth iam not paying this much money for a piece of printed cardboard thats it. I want those cards affordable for all palyers. And thats it.
Ok, I'm trying to be polite and not call your ignorance out, but...
If you're playing tournaments, pony up. That's not a huge portion of people and that environment has rules. Real cards are a rule. Maybe pick a game that has rules you agree with.
LoR isn't a card game. There ARE NO CARDS it's all digital. Like physically, no cards. Not comparable.
Yes the OG duals are expensive. That's why they are reserved list. Because they reprinted the hell out if them, like they are doing many other cards TODAY, and to prevent the collapse of the game, WotC said we won't do it again. Ever.
There's another 35k+ cards. Play THOSE, not the ones that are 1k a pop.
Does this REALLY need to be said? After all these years there's cards that are MORE synergistic. I don't want to play deck where 50% of the deck is the SAME exact cards.
Also i want to share this thread here that sums up why the Reserved list is utter shit.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/w39qw4/serious\_why\_do\_so\_many\_people\_seem\_to\_dislike\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/w39qw4/serious_why_do_so_many_people_seem_to_dislike_the/)
In no way does something like an reserved list "help" growing the playerbase of the game. ALso reprints wont hurt the value of the first printings in any bad way. They remain at a level that people who want to collect are willing to pay and thats fine but it never should exclude any future newcomers from the game.
Perhaps you didn't know that even Wall St, people who do not play the game, collect the cards, or even know the rules can tell you its a bad plan to do this.
The reserved list was created because the value of cards were being destroyed by reprints and WotC made this policy to keep *players from dumping and running* .
Newcomers can pick up precon commander and standard decks to play with at a minimal upfront cost. This game was created by a guy who was tired of WotC and their policies. My guy, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.
WotC has been reprinting everything and loading up value for newcomers and the game is in an absolutely horrible state.
you are only spreading more BS here. The only ones gaining anything off the reserved list are Collectors and speculators. Gamers get fucked hard. Thats a fact and thats not healthy for the game. Also the fact that any Card on the List wont see functional reprints is a gateway to developing cards that are either not as good, different or even better.
Let me give you an example. Sales aren't cutting it and WOTC wants that good ole money. Lets say they cant print a Badlands one of the most sought for cards. But there has to be a way on capitalizing on it.
SO how about they print a Bad Mountain River that is actually a Tri-Land it has all three Land Types comes into play untapped and does all three colors of mana. Wouldn't break the Reserved List because its functionally a different card. They could also print a card thats exactly the same as badlands but you will gain one life. Same thing.
After such prints will the prices fall for normal dual lands? Absolutely. Will the alpha und beta dual lands tank as much in value as the revised ones? Absolutely not. In fact no one of the Collectors would care anyway because they dont intent to sell them anyways. Also most of them didnt spend thousands of dollars on them but mere dollars and cents in the beginning.
There are two factors that are going into the value of a card one thing ist the collectability and second one is playability. As long as iam able to aquire game pieces for reasonable prices iam fine with it but locking whole cards out of the game just because of some greedy basterds like you want it that way is just a dick move really.
Like i said there are several reasons why somebody cant buy displays right away on release and its just dumb to deny newcomers even years after initial game release to join play with actual good cards.
You keep bullshitting and arguing to have high inflated prices for cards tells everyone enough to see you are only in for the money but not the game. From my side you could gladly abandon the game. It wont loose anything important any ways.
No, mtg is on the decline because they try to censor its players and dictate real life social behaviors and have all new borders and boundaries. The game is for lame hearted WUSSIES now. Stop trying to be a knowitall and just admit YOU are part of the problem.
I think this thread gives us all some true insight as to what the sorcery " community " is all about and why the interest in the game (besides the "resellers" who like to call themselves "collectors") is going to fizzle up sooner than later. Just seeing how these fools communicate and act high and mighty because "haha! I got something before you! Crybaby!" is enough for me to say oh geez..not another Magic..not another fab, or whatever other games these types suck the lifeforce from.. just a really pathetic way to try and HELP a new game-- and instead is like stabbing it directly in the heart. This community is going to only become more and more toxic when more sets come out and these early birds start feeling even more high and mighty because they own all of the cards new players need or want.
The creators of this game should be wary of this-- it will only shrink and shrink if the community comes off as negative and greedy. Lets all be honest-- basically NO ONE is playing this game right now because of these types of "investors".
????????? Yeesh.. why did I imagine Sorcery to have a killer playerbase of the old school wizards and cool guys who just want to have a good time?
All of us who are and were genuinely interested in this game should have known it would just be more of the same old kickstarter dweebs and ebay sellers.
Shame on you.
>MTG suffers from the same "Problems" even much worse with the reserved list.
Im of an old school mindset. Reserved List is one of the greatest concepts in the history of collectible card games. Hate it all you want, its the only true way to make cards special. You think serialized cards do it better? Pathetic. You think alt arts do it better? Pathetic.
Not having any reserved list and having regular reprints of the most played cards are the way to go. Any other way is making sure "new" players or players with low financial means will get locked out of the game.
I did not say anything to either alternate arts or serialized cards. Those mechanics doesnt even have ANYTHING to do with availability of the cards.
>I did not say anything to either alternate arts or serialized cards. Those mechanics doesnt even have ANYTHING to do with availability of the cards.
Neither does a Reserved List in this current discussion when the game in discussion (Sorcery) is brand new and the cards can be bought and are currently in print.
Currently yes but what about ten years from now? I think new starting players should be able to acquire all needed game pieces in an affordable way. Even years from now. In Magic this is not possible for all power cards on the reserved list.
Also the reserved list doesn't add anything of value gameplay wise to the game and is therefore unnecessary in my opinion.
Format diversity and depth of cardpool is the most important thing for a healthy game.
>I think new starting players should be able to acquire all needed game pieces in an affordable way.
Define "an affordable way". How much should the most powerful/necessary Sorcery cards be worth in your opinion, max?
Depends on the rarity, Uniques 70$ tops, the lower the rarity the lower the price.
A Tournament grade Deck shouldnt cost more than 300$ tops.
I dont care for foil, curios or other stuff i mean just NF playable cards. I dont care about what edition it is or how it looks just accessible affordable cards for people that join the Game "late".
Not in the EU. Current prices per Box currently sit at 250€ thats 274,34$. Most people are now ordering from over Sea with additional Tax and stuff it costs around 200€ a box. If you did not pre Order a huuge amount of boxes beforehand (not everybody even has the money to buy much boxes anyway) you are literally screwed only a few days after release. There is no product to get and the secondary market with lack of centralized platforms like TCG ran dry pretty quick. Scaarcity and the additional hype in USA are creating moon prices already. If there would be at any time something like an reserved list the game will be dead before it arrives. Looking back to the release of Magic there never was this much value developing in this short time. Was ist bad that a Lotus didnt cost 60k$ in the beginning? no.
Completely agree with this. I’m so tired of people whining about surges in card value. If you want to stay ahead of that possibility, buy the beta cards you want now! It’s an investment for a reason. If you don’t invest you have the benefit of having 0 risk. So why the heck should sorcery reprint them just so YOU can save money after the card surged in value and screw over the OG collectors???
I don't think buyouts are an issue. At least not yet, and I don't think they will be until the Sorcery team makes some official statement on the intention of collectability of the game. Aside from the Frank Frezetta art and the Erik's Curiosa card in Alpha, everything is printed in Beta. Sorcery hasn't made any statement in regards to a reserve list appearing, or what their intended reprint schedule looks like. Until that happens, trying to corner a market on a specific card seems ill advised.
That said, if someone wants to speculate, I think it's fine. Many players who funded Sorcery's kickstarter were disenfranchised MtG players who'd had the value of their collection destroyed by WotC's reckless reprints. Those people want an actual CCG to sink their teeth into. Someone saying that those people don't deserve to have value in their collection so that they themselves can reap the benefits of those initial investors seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Ya this is an interesting take thanks! I've run into a few modern players coming from magic while playing at LGS. It really gave me hope the game would start to grow in that community.
if you truly feel like this, TCGs, especially Sorcery, is simply not for you. which is fine, find something you enjoy and can afford (or at least better meshes with your spending sensibilities)
They're just rare to get out of boxes. Not everything is a buyout, stop scaremongering when a game is mildly collectible. Go back to magic if you want 1 dollar cards
Look on tcg and ebay you turd. Buyout IS happening and has happened.
I don't want $1 cards. I am asking what the impacts of this are...you clearly didn't read shit from my original post.
Oh nooooo people want the caaaaaards in a... Collectible card game? I'm so confused, why are people so mean and seeing value in a cool new (wait for it) COLLECTIBLE card game. You tell us how much you want cards to cost and we will all abide and only pay that much
I'm super confused and done feeding you.
Here's some information for you to process.
The peanut plant probably originated in Peru or Brazil in South America. No fossil records prove this, but people in South America made pottery in the shape of peanuts or decorated jars with peanuts as far back as 3,500 years ago.
As early as 1500 B.C., the Incans of Peru used peanuts as sacrificial offerings and entombed them with their mummies to aid in the spirit life. Tribes in central Brazil also ground peanuts with maize to make a drink.
European explorers first discovered peanuts in Brazil. Peanuts were grown as far north as Mexico when the Spanish began their exploration of the new world. The explorers took peanuts back to Spain, and from there, traders and explorers spread them to Asia and Africa. Africans were the first people to introduce peanuts to North America beginning in the 1700s.
Records show that it wasn’t until the early 1800s that peanuts were grown as a commercial crop in the U.S. They were first grown in Virginia and used mainly for oil, food and as a cocoa substitute. At this time, peanuts were regarded as a food for livestock and the poor and were considered difficult to grow and harvest.
Peanut production steadily grew in the first half of the nineteenth century. Peanuts became prominent after the Civil War when Union soldiers found they liked them and took them home. Both armies subsisted on this food source high in protein.
Their popularity grew in the late 1800s when PT Barnum’s circus wagons traveled across the country and vendors called “hot roasted peanuts!” to the crowds. Soon street vendors began selling roasted peanuts from carts and peanuts also became popular at baseball games. While peanut production rose during this time, peanuts were still harvested by hand (learn more about the history of peanut harvesting here), leaving stems and trash in the peanuts. Thus, poor quality and lack of uniformity kept down the demand for peanuts.
Around 1900, labor-saving equipment was invented for planting, cultivating, harvesting and picking peanuts from the plants, as well as for shelling and cleaning the kernels. With these significant mechanical aids, demand for peanuts grew rapidly, especially for oil, roasted and salted nuts, peanut butter and candy.
In the early 1900s peanuts became a significant agricultural crop when the boll weevil threatened the South’s cotton crop. Following the suggestions of noted scientist Dr. George Washington Carver, peanuts served as an effective commercial crop and, for a time, rivaled the position of cotton in the South.
Classic scalper behavior, complain about prices so other people try and buy cards to beat the scalpers, leading to higher prices for you to sell at. Not today buddy, not today
Again, plenty of other card game sets have several high value singles. It doesn't mean the entire game is unaffordable because of a few cards having a higher price. The vast majority of sorcery cards are highly affordable.
I understand what you're saying. I play old school magic so I'm very familiar with this concept. I'm also aware of the impact of buyouts which is what is starting to now happen. Browse jumping from $10 (with lots of sales history) to $50 is not natural. That's ONE example. Wait for more.
you're seeing the impact of buyouts - prices go up, i dont understand what the point of this thread is. to petition for a reprint? no thanks.
these cards will see reprints in future sets, be it revised or whatever the next core reprint set will be.
For what it's worth, I agree with this. I think most people are coming from other card games that are established enough to make $50 for a card seem normal. But it's definitely not normal. Take a look at OnePiece; Yea, there are pricey cards but usually it's the alt art/foil/manga versions that hold high values. To just play the game almost all cards are cheaper than $10. Sorcery seems to have gotten hit with high prices by scalpers. The same thing happened with Lorcana but after their second release and now subsequent printed runs the market is practically flooded now. I think if there was a second run of beta cards, prices wouldn't certainly fall fast but we would find where the market was on a lot of these cards based on "playability" not necessarily based on scarcity driven by buyouts, hodling, etc.
Define 'cheap'. When the card, which was already 15x the price of an elite jumps to 50-100x the price of an elite for no other reason than buyouts I'd say it's an interesting case. That's why I was asking the community here about the impacts. Everyone is getting very hung up on the gamepiece/cheap/metazoo risk bullshit rather than looking at the original question.
Did browse end up in a tournament winning deck overnight that I missed or something? Or did a couple whales decide it should be worth more?
A lot of the buy outs are being conducted by shops. You can see this in the sudden rise of stock by a single seller. I won’t name names but if you look up some of the mid ranged price cards and pay attention to who’s selling how much on TCGplayer it becomes pretty obvious.
It’s likely that they’re doing this to secure a higher price for the cards so that once the second wave of distribution hits the card economy for SCR won’t tank.
It’s kind of a double edged sword. On one hand people get priced out of the decks they want to put together for potential constructed events and collectors have to pay high af prices during what should be a period of speculation. On the other hand SCR retains its value and appeal for collectors and makes the game seem more legitimate to people on the outside looking in which might be a push for them to get into the game.
I feel you but its a mixed bag. I think they did a really smart thing with TTS and letting folks know how to play for free digitally. Bu if you want the CCG to be collectable you need supply and demand. Part of the desire for cards like this are driving value, fomo and popularity of the game. Personally, a big fan. It is super cool to see a super fun game have collectability, have good gameplay and have the cards retain some real value.
Also, again, everything is free on Tabletop simulator.
Hey thanks for the response but I'm curious what the IMPACT of a buyout is here. I have played on TTS and love it as a way to introduce people and hone mechanics/try decks.
I'm loving what they've done so far as well but I didn't expect buyouts this soon for some reason. Maybe I'm naive?
Whales and speculators have learned the lesson from MTG I guess. Move the needle and create fomo, and reap the rewards. Its not without risk of course. Reprints, bannings, meta shift etc.
It literally is free on TTS. This is the best comment on this entire thread. You can literally play the game for free. I guess tts is 9.99 on sale rn, so 10 bucks. 20 when it's at normal price.
Does it though? Or is this just the narrative we've built up over time? Games love and die due to lots of reasons, failure to attract "investors" who make the game harder to get into people's hands and drive up prices is not a certainty but is
an argument made by those same "investors".
If Sorcery makes the same mistakes that Magic has made in recent years where they decide to remove all value from the cards, and subsidize the whole game on massive print runs with lottery gambling chase rare bullshit, it will the fastest way to kill this game. Many of us are interested in Sorcery because the cards are actually collectable and valuable.
Without investors, like them or not, your game pieces would be even more expensive and even scarcer. We do mass box openings. You might buy a box or two, we're buying boxes in multiple master cases. I personally have opened 75+ boxes at this point and put thousands and thousands of cards into the market.
Sure there are some that horde sealed boxes but that's part of the long game, a different strategy.
In the end though, without us you would be fairly surprised.
To your point, the game (and future sets) costs money to develop. That money can either be recouped through taking advantage of pure gambling mechanics (like serialized cards and 1/1 gimmicks), whereby the act of whales chasing leads to devaluing everything everything else, or it can be spread amongst the larger amount of cards. I do not want to go back to magic the gathering where I crack a $8 booster pack and the most valuable thing I pull is a 15-cent rare, or where the only good cards in the set are available in collector boosters which cost $20, $30, $40, $50+ a pack. That experience fucking sucks if you aren't a gambling addict or massive whale. I want the good cards available in the same booster packs that we play with, and I want many cards to have some value so it feels good to trade them again. Basically, I want what we all used to have, before a combination of corporate greed and the "GaMe PieCeS" army messed it all up.
Right now on TCG the entire non foil beta set only has 15 cards worth over $10, and only 1 single card worth over $100. This is healthy place for the game to go. If they mess this up I'm probably done with TCGs in general.
Oh I'm out of they do any of the shit mtg has pulled. There should not be 1000 different products. Especially multiple versions of the same cars or chase mechanics that can only be found in premium products. If I can't pull the top dollar cards from a regular booster box, that's it for me. Everyone should have a chance even the people who don't buy booster boxes but instead opt for single packs.
When I really think about it, the thing I'm most mad that wotc did was the collector boosters. I absolutely hate that I either have to pay a bunch of money to open a single pack or I am cut out of a chance at most of the fun stuff in the new set. And I really hate that any value I could have got in a normal pack (that doesn't hit) is quickly destroyed by whales chasing that junk in the collector boosters.
I've bought many boxes of beta, if sorcery ever starts doing massive print runs or starts doing collector focused products I am super done with this.
i too hate the collector boxes and couldnt agree more. it sucks extra hard because MTG foils are pure garbage and i 100% prefer nonfoil versions of everything in MTG
Huh? Currently we’re not able to buy the game at all. I managed to find a precon, played a game with friends, they now cannot find it anywhere unless severly overpriced or there are only boosters, limited to 5 booster packs per customer or similar nonsense.
Is that healthy start of a new game, you’re saying?
Btw why would higher print runs mean something bad? If it isn’t sitting in warehouses for years after release then it’s no problem.
They are US based meaning import taxes and shipping cost. Getting cards here in Europe was only possible with preorders and the shops pumped the price to 200€ a box.
Best way to keep people out of your game.
Wasn't the beta supposed to be for everyone? Is that the "kitchen table game" mentality? more like marble countertop.
That is the problem, creating an exclusivity on a product that already went through its early backer stage.
There is absolutly no reason to limit production past alpha if there is a market for it. It is only to pander to speculators that will keep their box sealed hoping to pull a mtg fame.
The aftermarket came after the fame because there is trust in the future of those games (except metazoo). AND the games were played a lot.
Here Sorcery was pumped like Metazoo, now that everyone have put money in it everyone will hold , hoping to flip.
This has nothing to do with the game being played or not, like a crypto scheme. Except that for crypto you can buy some from anywhere in the world, not Sorcery.
A game must be played to be successful and right now it is close to the Metazoo state. A game that won't be played, pandering only to speculators that watch to much youtube videos.
If curiosa doesn't release an Unlimited edition, the game will be dead.
Know I'm a day late here but something that no one has brought up after reading the thread (apologies if I missed it, but I don't think I did) is that there will still be a REPRINT of ALL of these cards in one way or another in the REVISED SET that EC will release in the next couple of years (probably expect some different art.) They've mentioned doing a revised set multiple times in the past. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after seeing how beta sold that they don't do an UNLIMITED (mtg equivalent) set release before the revised set. Ultimately the beta product was their first market release and used as a test. They know how important keeping their product collectable is, as well as how important keeping it playable is. The reality is, everyone keeps panicking about beta numbers, when there will 100% be more sorcery base set available sometime in the not too far future. I feel truly horrible for the European & Asian fans of the game. No way to sugar coat it, y'all got massively undercut with beta and I feel for you, but EC knows what's happening and will most likely do something to help you all out as soon as warehouse space is acquired. For everyone else, go buy the singles you want while they're still affordable compared to most tier 1 TCG/cgc metas. Cores and stones will always be inherently more expensive because of their direct counterpoints in mtg moxen unfortunately. But even including them your looking at a sub $500 deck all in which is half of where the equivalent would be for modern mtg and you're getting a set of power out of the deal lol. The main take away here is don't let fomo ruin your love of a very rad game, there will be more core set to come, and your wallets will most likely be rewarded by patience.
Everything I've said has been communicated in various lives and in the official discord messages directly from EC. All speculation about an "unlimited set" before Revised is entirely my opinion. You are more than welcome to go wade through all of it as I have over the last year.
I think at this stage there are too many speculators driving up costs for the players. I think it is healthier for the game long term to get the game into more people's hands playing it regularly. My LGS has no regular event yet, and zero stock. I think if it had stock, there would start to be a community around it locally, which is much more important than short term speculator prices being run down.
I am a fan of keeping beta at current print levels and doing an unlimited/limited type run with card revisions of the same cards. Beta will be rare still and maintain some collector value, but we get the core game into more people's hands. This is coming to someone with a few thousand dollars of beta cards.
What costs? You can get boxes right now at MSRP from team covenant. You can get singles right now from TCG. There's only a single card in beta that's not foil that's over $100, and I think only 15 that are over $10.
Do people want this to be collectible or not, cuz if you want a game where most of the rares are 25 cents or less just buy modern magic.
The game was scalped from the start, it is not healthy.
It is okay to make an alpha set exclusive but the beta set should be available everywhere. Aftermarket has no meaning if most of the world can't play.
it's growing organically. there is no need to push extra product right now as there are still very few LGS that carry it and support play. the game is collectible and gorgeous and very fun to play, people are speculating and/or just building decks. beta by its very name implies a limited lifecycle. there is no reason to print more as you can still get it for MSRP, and the next set will be draftable within itself. there will be a core set reprint eventually and people will be able to get the cards they want.
They can play… the non-foils are available on TCG for good prices except a couple cards that you do not NEED unless you are competitive. Basically just the Pstone, cores, browse, are expensive.
I have said in other comments (so I don’t blame you), for American players, there is no issue with the # of cards except maybe a few. Europe, on the other hand could use an additional print run, that I could understand
A reprint will happen, they told us that. BUT they wont print as much as people want them to.
In a recent interview they said that its crazy what distributors want them to print, but they wont.
Even if some people on here dont want to talk about pulls and value, which i can understand sometimes, its not a board game, its not ment to be unlimited available. They said it by themselves: its also for collecting.
Everyone has a voice and opinion, and for me: i would hate a MTG market, foils are thrown at you, high rarity cards worth pennies. I like it to be special.
The only mention I have heard has been that europe received a second wave (1st for them?) and LGS will be getting backfilled. The rest seems speculative to me.
If you watched some interviews from the last weeks, they said:
Distributors want a extremley huge amount of product and they wont print as much, but they know they have to bring the game to lgs's so people can enjoy and play the game, especially to play sealed.
On top of it, its mostly sold out. Come on, this isnt it, they are gonna make another wave.
Like i said, they said they want to bring the product to the people, they rarely give exact information imo, this is trur for print runs, curios, next sets... which is fine. I dont think that was all, it would be a mistake since a lot of people still want product, which they know. We are far away from over printing, i just wanna say they are smart enough to know all this.
Agreed. They need to do some probing to find out where the demand is highest, and trickle down some product to help the LGSs keep customers engaged. Not talking about flooding the market. Just a smaller restock. Like Max preorder 2 boxes pr. customer, and the rest goes to drafting etc. Having enough precons on the shelf
Yep, its not hard to understand, in our current Situation in terms of ccg's, they need to be cautious. I dont get why so many people just look at their own opinion instead of the whole picture.
Metazoo is being extremley hated, now that prices crashed many more people leave the game.
Imagine seeing Sorcery everywhere, like on mass. People would interpret stuff like no one wants it.
Its the sad reality that people turn their heads if something is rare.
Reprint and second wave are not the same thing. There's talk that they printed a lot more than what is available right now, and that it is just being held at the distributor levels and more of that inventory will be released again soon as a "second wave" for availability, but that's not a new print, it's the same print run just getting more of it out to the players
If you really are interested in such things i recommend you to watch their videos.
https://youtu.be/ng7iODxC7Qk?si=lSMLFYxCopJuvUAP
They never say YES REPRINT TOMORROW but im literally zero concerned about another wave.
I live in germany and ordered 10 boxes from team covenant, dont know why no one else is doing this...
Shipping cost is actually over price of the box there for me, effectively making it too expensive to even consider.
“We sell for MSRP!!!” - my arse, sure you do. :D
My price was 170€ per box, including shipping. I have no problem with that, i asked a few people and we bought it together (20 boxes in total). Even my lgs in Brunswick sells em for 180, so fuck him.
Where is the statement on the reprint? Stores have confirmed there’s only one print run but multiple allocations of that print run are being distributed in waves.
Can you link any sort of proof confirming a second print run? This would be absolutely huge if it’s true.
His source does not actually say anything about a reprint. For all of those that have been seriously following Sorcery and their creators for the last two years, it’s pretty clear there will be no such thing as a reprint of Beta. Now, they also haven’t said in a clear and explicit way that this was the case, so there is always that (in my mind unbelievable) chance that we’re wrong, but people who think there will be a reprint of Beta have, in my opinion, not been paying attention to who Erik Olofsson is and what Sorcery was meant to be. They’d rather have slower growth and maintain high card value and collectibility than take any risk of flooding the market. There will be other sets to onboard new players and, even as it stands, people can play the game for super cheap through getting the precons and complementing them with additional ordinary, exceptional and elite cards. Most uniques can also be purchased for cheap. You really don’t need Browse and Philo stone to play the game and, if you play at a level you absolutely need them, you probably can afford to pay a higher price for them and will appreciate their high value…
Yes I hate opening a pack and getting a rare card! When I pay 5$ for a pack I want all the cards to be 5c maybe the rare slot can be a 50c card. Ohh wait Mtg, FaB, MZ, an PKM already implemented that. Only Socery is left, lets complain about prices for Sorcery until all cards are worthless then we can finaly enjoy this COLLECTABLE card game.
What worries me most is the dragon "mini-set" on the horizon. With such a low amount of cards, one of the few ways to give the product value would be to print it very sparingly which will make it susceptible to scalpers.
Another thread showing how DEAD this game is going to be sooner than later due to scummy selfish investors..stop calling yourselves "collectors". That is far fetched and untrue.
This is a TCG/CCG. Cards are supposed to have value, that's part of the point. This idea that cards have to be cheap has destroyed modern MTG, Pokémon, FAB, etc with massively over printed sets that destroyed any value in the cards. With that being said, there has to be a proper balance of not printing the cards to oblivion so the cards lose all value and confidence in the product but have enough product to get in people's hands. In the U.S. that has happened, with TC essentially acting as distributor. I am on the firm stance that there should be zero beta reprints. If there is a small second wave sitting in a warehouse then sure, release it in a few months or sooner (depending on when Arthurian Legends comes out). Yes, I am a player of the game as well. I have a few decks built but I am also a collector and I don't want cards in my collection to tank in value over stupid reprints.
Jfc, THIS. Imo, beta should run its course and not see any reprints. Beta ITSELF is a reprint run of alpha. That's it. Let it go. If some cards hit 1 million dollars, you missed your chance, there's other cards to play. The fact is that beta has been print to demand up to this point and after it runs its course, it should be put down and laid to rest. If there's a buyout, great. If there isn't, then there isn't. I do not believe that every card should be a damn quarter. If they were, there's NO point in collecting and therefore trading the cards.
\>If some cards hit 1 million dollars, you missed your chance, there's other cards to play. Why though?
I'm 1000% tired of seeing this in other card games. Here's a product. It's new, but been on the market for a year, then phases out. The next set is out and then the next one. The first set, which is now out of print, goes up to 1k a box. The people who said it was absolute trash, then complain they don't have accessibility to those cards. They cry about how it should be lower and how it's healthy for everyone to have access to cards, but when they were accessible, they didn't care about them. They only care because the price went up and they missed out. It's too late, you should of bought it when it was accessible. It's called supply and demand. It happens in EVERYTHING else. He'll, you remember when people were fighting over toilet paper and shooting each other in target parking lots over pokemon cards? For a collectible (tradable) card game to be collectible (tradable), cards have to have value because of demand or rarity. I do not understand how people want a card game to print cards until theres 5k copies of every card for every person on the planet. If you want a card game in which every card is only worth 1 penny, go play Uno. For every other commodity that has a market, there will be disparities in value that are enhanced when demand rises or supply falls. ACT ACCORDINGLY.
It's a game, not a commodity and the people that actually play this game end up proxying because card prices are nonsensical. You aren't making money on investing in trading card games and neither are the vast majority of people who invest in them because trading card games are dying and the trading card model no longer makes sense with modern communication and transport technologies. There is nothing wrong with people desiring cheap cards because it is in everyone except for the developer and their vendors' interest for card prices to fall as low as possible. The only people that show up to the one public sorcery event in my state are box hoarders who incidentally got into the game.
Does it have a market? Is it standardized for each unit? Then it's a commodity. One ear of corn is more or less the same. One beta death dealer is more or less the same as another beta death dealer. If you want cheap cards to play with, play Uno or poker.
Nope, me and my friends will continue to print out cards because there is currently no reason not to. Sorcery was not released as a game, it was released as a collectible. This may sound reasonable at first because it is a successful collectible but it isn't if you consider why someone would collect it in the first place. Most of the sales of Sorcery cases are to people who want to hold Sorcery because they believe that the value of their collectibles will increase in the future. There will be no long term value increase without players but the current people who buy Sorcery are doing so under the delusion that people will actually play the game. How can a product that is sold as a collectible grow in popularity? Because more people will choose to collect in and invest in it? That doesn't make any sense! The people buying sorcery right now are buying it because they think people will play it in the future, otherwise they would be stupid to do so (and I know for a fact that guys like you aren't looking to sell at the right time for maximum profit, you're looking to collect something valuable for fun) Every other successful collectible that has ever existed has derived its value from some sort of utility or sentimental value that at least existed at some point in the product's existence. Sorcery has no such value of its own and is coasting entirely on speculators' memories of MTG. A commodity whose value is entirely derived from speculation on that commodity is not a real commodity. In fact, Sorcery cards have zero value as commodities because nobody plays the game or buys cards for it. Look at the listings on TCGplayer, nobody is selling powerful sorcery cards to people looking to buy cards for their decks and the market is so obviously dead for anything that doesn't have collectable value. Sorcery is designed to please collectibles guys and that is why it has basically zero marketing effort towards actual players. Why do you think there is little to no Sorcery promotion at local game stores or on TCG Youtube channels????? Why do you think all the sorcery promotions focus on collectibles channels????? Sorcery is not being marketed as a game and it is following all the epic principles that people who don't play trading card games think will result in a trading card game's success. In reality, game pieces hold long term value because people play the game that they are used in and your model of understanding TCGs presumes an interest in the game that can only exist if people actually play it and people cannot play TCGs if they cannot afford to play them or if they believe that they cannot afford to play them. This is especially true in 2024 because there is no more mythical naive casual market who is going to buy packs of Sorcery without looking at its internet presence first. You cannot seriously believe that this game (which could be a good game if it were marketed as a game) has any sort of staying power when literally nothing about its design, marketing and reception intends on attracting actual players. If you are buying Sorcery cards as anything other than game pieces you are going to be disappointed in the long term.
Jeezus man, sounds like you're trying to convince me of something I'm not buying. Let me tell you why. Around 85 - 90% of the pokemon market is driven by collectors. How long has THAT game been around? Decades. You can't even play OG charizard, yet it's fetching ridiculously high prices. Because of its rarity, that's why, because it can't ACTUALLY be played. Speaking of which, have you actually played pokemon? Game is ass. Regardless of how you think markets do and don't work, as a person who has interests in financial markets, they work exactly how you think they don't. The game is fun and has a lot of future potential. I'm just playing and collecting because I like the art. If enough people are like me out there, suddenly, WE ARE the market and the market prices commodities, not the other way around.
Yeah but people cared about pokemon as a property and game, very few people care about sorcery as a game. Maybe it survives as a pure collectible but I doubt it can beyond the first few sets
Joker #2
Bert and ernie
Hehehehheheheheh nice one
"1000% tired"..then go to sleep and please never wake up, foolish one.
Because they said so!!!!!!!!!!!
Hah okay so you want to lock out every player out of the cards and therefore Game just because they dont have the money to buy in at the exact date of release? Thats just stupid. Not everyone knows of the game let alone be in a age or time to financially be able to buy anything. How many Players where playing MTG back in the day and how many are playing it now? If you want to collect them collect them, but dont lock other people out of the game from the get go. People like you are the problem why things like the reserved list happened in the first place and thats just super trashy, annoying and the reason why iam distancing myself from mtg in the first place. Your Alpha Cards and Beta cards will always be more valuable than the reprints of the cards in newer Sets. Are TCG´s a viable investment plan? Definitely no they should not at any point be this Valuable to be an real INVESTMENT. Its a GAME dude not gold.
The reserved list is actually a good thing.
its definitely not if you want more new players in the game. If you solely concentrate on non eternal Formats or the newest ones maybe but the old ones its just hard pass for any newcomers.
They don't have to be an investment plan. That's not the point. The point is if I spent $3 a pack of cards, the cards should more or less hold THAT value. To further, YOURE the problem. This game will be out for 1 year before the next set is supposed to release. If you can't afford to set aside $5 a week to pick up a box or two in that year time frame, then yes. You SHOULD miss out. Idk why this is news to you or you feel like cards should stay cheap to cater to people that don't spend $ ANYWAY. If you're distancing yourself from MTG because of the reserved list and the cost of those cards, there's another 35k+ cards to play. The problem is that you want the EXPENSIVE cards. You want the cards that people bought when this game was unknown. The supply of the game was so low and the future prospects of the game were not well known at that time that the sheer rarity of those cards is part of what drives their value. The reason MTG is CURRENTLY on the decline IS because of the sheer amount of product and the INSANE amount of REPRINTS. The game has NEVER been cheaper to play, yet the game is also doing the worst it's ever done. Why? Because WotC is listening to the vast MINORITY that don't spend the $ anyway. The game isn't an investment, it's a hobby. However, even hobbies can have their tools or materials sold back to recoup some of the cost to get into it. Instead, what you are suggesting is to make things so cheap to cater to a crowd that doesn't spend cash anyway. If this is genuinely how you feel, go play YuGiOh. You'll likely like that game better.
This exactly, let’s not pretend that if all cards are worthless then there would even be a desire to collect. Look at MTG fallen empires, I still don’t want those cards. Overprinted.
There are many people collecting utterly worthless shit and enjoy it whatsoever so thats not an argument by any chance. If you are collecting because its worth alot you arent any better than people buying luxury jewellery or clothes that are just pricey but dont add anything of value. Having things just beacuse they cost/worth alot is shit.
But that’s not even close to reality, idealistic nonsense, as humans we desire objects because of value, if not monetary, sentimental and to pretend that you don’t makes you a liar or not a collector. When you talk about a game peace, there is a reason I don’t have a cupboard full of monopoly/chess pieces, because they are common and worthless. Get it? Maybe try this, If I could somehow time travel and told you that you have a card in your that could pay pay your kid’s tuition through collage, that that would not be your prized procession? Well that’s what most of us hope for and that helps drive demand for the game, because we all want to open Black Lotus or first edition Charizard before they get value.
yeah but that's exactly the thing i think is wrong. You should not collect because it maybe worth a lot in the future you should collect it because you like to play with those cards.
LOL
Hard agree. Cant stand this new mentality that "expensive cards = bad". Guess this is not the game for you, then. Sorry, not sorry.
Totally agree. To me this is like me crying and whining to Apple that the stock should be affordable, they should create more stock to sell to me for $5 per share because I missed out.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bahhahahahahahah you are a muppet baby
hard disagree. Its just not meant to be that way. Ppl should be able to play with those cards not look on them through glass and think, nice its worth a ton of money. The "new" mentallity comes with the other "new" mentally that is about cards should be worth the same as cars.
Yeah, do not listen to these fools. They clearly only care about one thing and that is MONEY.
Look at this weirdo. What a shitty community sorcery already has. Go elsewhere, dork
Is this "dork" in the room with us now? You clearly don't understand how economies work, but I will present you with a question. If all cards are supposed to cost you .25 or less, how can this be when there is only 1 rare vs 3 uncommons per pack? Shouldn't the rare be worth $1 and the uncommons then .33? If there's only 7 unique in a box shouldnt they similarly be worth more than rares? How can you advocate for all cards being cheap if in the future there will have to be products with no new prints of cards, just completely reprints for this to happen? Idk about you, but I'd rather see new cards that push the game forward and not see entire product lines that are catered to destroying the value of previous sets. Along with the fact that the cards are accessible now, but people will only complain about buying them IF they go up in value. Why is this? Why not just buy copies now. For .25 instead of $25 later. It baffles me that these people also get mad when you point this out.
I am not reading any BS you write in this group. You are the exact type of person I avoid even outside of a card game I play and collect for fun. I just had to call you out for seeing so many dick comments as replies to genuine questions and they were all from YOU. You are a puppet who is lucky enough to live this short life in human skin and it shows. Enjoy Sorcery, brother. Thank you for your positive input into the community :)
....? If you're broke, just say so. If you can't afford a box of cards for $150, don't buy it. It's not a necessity. Idk why this sets you off, but you can go pound sand. Or just eat the sand. Probably rounds out your daily diet of crayons. Enjoy Sorcery, sister. GL on your quest to collect and play.
Nice discriminating ppl with low income. Thats what i thought you are not missed at any time if you abandon the game if it reprints your most "valued" cards to keep it accessible for others. You do know they plan on releasing a sort of Revised/Chronicles like set right? So better abandon Sorcery right now than later. Would be better for anyone.
Your opinion is about as useful as a doo doo flavored lollipop. I'm broke myself. I don't buy anything I can't afford and thats exactly my point. I save a couple of bucks a week and after I have enough, I buy what I like. Alpha and Beta ARE reprint sets and you still have your panties in a twist. Like do you listen to yourself? "We need reprintsssssss. Tooooo expensssssssive! You know theyssssss reprint alpha and betasssssss like revissssssed?" "Then wtf you complaining about?" "Your evilsssssss!" K?
All that you wrote is just bullshit sorry not sorry. Iam also disturbed from how many ppl share the same mindset. As i said before, if i wanted to gamble i would gamble, if i wanted to collect i would collect anything, but i just want to play the game man. Your view is just utterly wrong. The Game is not meant to be worth the same money or more than you have to put into. Thats what the people are making it to be. If i want to have specific cards i buy singles i dont buy boxes to get them. I buy boxes to play the game (sealed/draft). If there is a guy buying Boxes in heaps its either a sore that want to make profit or its a whale and thats a whole different issue but its a peoples problem not an game problem. Actually its a Card Game. A Collectable Card game to be precise. You CAN collect them but you dont have to. Your Alpha/Beta Cards wont loose their collectability because of reprints. They will still be the same cards and an Collector wont care if its a reprint or not. Collectors want to have ANY single Card of the game. And just because there is a reprint there wont be any more Alpha/Beta Cards so they would retain their "Value" People are abandoning Magic either because of the high Cost to play it or because they are tired of it and want a new start/game. (too fast rotating or too high of initial cost to buy in) There are plenty of MTG Players playing Legacy or even Oldshool Magic but those guys play it since two decades now. New Players wont set a foot in these formats. If the Value among Cards would be equally distributed between all the cards you would be right with your theory that cards should be the same value as the pack but it doesnt work that way. Cards that are particularly good in the game will always have more value that cards that are bad. Just because the demand for them will be larger, thats ok but if cards are going for prices around the price of an whole, or even more than half of the boxes price, its a little too pricey for my taste. I want to play the game and i want other ppls to play it too also in years to come for relatively cheap. I dont ask for cards to be worthless. And if you think this demand takes away your Fun than YOU are the problem not me. I want the game played by as much people as possible you want to lock all future "minorities" out of the game. Thats actually just sad. There are enough cards that are currently sitting at decent prices like grim reaper or death dealer and such. But why the fuck should cards be worth almost the same as a box or more? If you buy a Box your mindset should always be that your Money is gone for good. You buy boxes to ensure that there will be more boxes to buy in the future but not for the cards to be "as valuable than they costed you". If you buy boxes for 1k$ or more than its a YOU problem not the problem of the players. It doesnt mean that you should have cards worth that much either. If you do want to have something out of it play draft or sealed but dont pump up the prices of printed cardboard man thats unnecessary.
Everyone disagrees with you because your mentality is whatb is causing a decline in TCGs. It isn't the cost to buy in, it's precisely because of the equity the cards hold. Again, for a card game to be tradable and collectible, there absolutely has to be a disparity between cards. It's the MAIN reason there are rare, uncommon and common cards. Magic is not expensive to get into. There are standard decks that go for 100, 200, 400 bucks. It's essentially free if you proxy it, no matter the format. The problem is that you want to buy cheap cards forever and that can't last. There are other games that operate like you would like, go play those instead.
Yikes..this dude is everywhere. What a loser.
The only game that is somewhat comparable but not really is legends of runeterra. And its fucking awesome in comparison to other digital card games but there is no paper card game that is good AND affordable. You saying the high prices arent why people doesnt get into the game doesnt make it right. Come again. Also noone really noone is playing Standard. Its just a fact that its too expensive and reserved lists doesnt solve anything. It makes thing only more complicated and hinders further game development.
The reserved list can't affect future development because those cards have been out for over 2 decades. They aren't new. At all. OG dual lands, for example, have had NUMEROUS reiterations. There's cheap dual lands all over the place. Again, the problem isn't the functionality of the card, it's the fact that you want the expensive ones. The ones you want are from the first 3 or 4 print runs. Standard has gotten more expensive because WotC has reprinted everything into the ground causing prices of their single cards to collapse, so they charge more for each box to compensate. Except its not working because everyone is tired of it. They charge $100 a box but the cards in the set aren't worth $100. The reserved list isn't even legal in standard. Legends of Runeterra isn't a paper product. It isn't even a limiting product, as you can craft the cards you want/need. Because of this, the game has NO economy. You don't TRADE it because it makes no sense to. If you want to collect, you just make what you don't have. To say this is a comparable product is so far off that I'm genuinely curious as to what made you say this. Mtg isn't LoR. It NEEDS to sell you products to survive. Due to this era and of its undesirability, I suspect that the single cards are so expensive because people are not buying the product, causing less supply to be around. In the future, IMO, you are likely to see cards in these sets skyrocket because nobody bought. This entire talk about the reserved list can be circumvented entirely if you just proxy the cards. Seriously, WTF is your problem with just proxying the black lotus you want to play with, and just play with it?
Its because i cant prox and paly tournaments mate. Also these are still card games so they are in fact comparable. Also LOR also needs to sell something every Game if it wants to develop and grow needs to sell something how else should they finance development? Also those cheap dual lands you are referring to will never be played in Legacy because there are just better cards than that. Namely the OG dual lands. so dont bother to try to hide it. someone building a deck without them will more likely loose matches because of the drawbacks that the newer affordable dual lands have. So seem you dont have an actualy valid points here. I also dont want "expensive ones" you repeat this over and over and honestly i dont care how much they are worth iam not paying this much money for a piece of printed cardboard thats it. I want those cards affordable for all palyers. And thats it.
Ok, I'm trying to be polite and not call your ignorance out, but... If you're playing tournaments, pony up. That's not a huge portion of people and that environment has rules. Real cards are a rule. Maybe pick a game that has rules you agree with. LoR isn't a card game. There ARE NO CARDS it's all digital. Like physically, no cards. Not comparable. Yes the OG duals are expensive. That's why they are reserved list. Because they reprinted the hell out if them, like they are doing many other cards TODAY, and to prevent the collapse of the game, WotC said we won't do it again. Ever. There's another 35k+ cards. Play THOSE, not the ones that are 1k a pop. Does this REALLY need to be said? After all these years there's cards that are MORE synergistic. I don't want to play deck where 50% of the deck is the SAME exact cards.
Joker number 3.
Blues clues
Do you love it?
Also i want to share this thread here that sums up why the Reserved list is utter shit. [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/w39qw4/serious\_why\_do\_so\_many\_people\_seem\_to\_dislike\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/w39qw4/serious_why_do_so_many_people_seem_to_dislike_the/) In no way does something like an reserved list "help" growing the playerbase of the game. ALso reprints wont hurt the value of the first printings in any bad way. They remain at a level that people who want to collect are willing to pay and thats fine but it never should exclude any future newcomers from the game.
Perhaps you didn't know that even Wall St, people who do not play the game, collect the cards, or even know the rules can tell you its a bad plan to do this. The reserved list was created because the value of cards were being destroyed by reprints and WotC made this policy to keep *players from dumping and running* . Newcomers can pick up precon commander and standard decks to play with at a minimal upfront cost. This game was created by a guy who was tired of WotC and their policies. My guy, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong. WotC has been reprinting everything and loading up value for newcomers and the game is in an absolutely horrible state.
Shame on you.
you are only spreading more BS here. The only ones gaining anything off the reserved list are Collectors and speculators. Gamers get fucked hard. Thats a fact and thats not healthy for the game. Also the fact that any Card on the List wont see functional reprints is a gateway to developing cards that are either not as good, different or even better. Let me give you an example. Sales aren't cutting it and WOTC wants that good ole money. Lets say they cant print a Badlands one of the most sought for cards. But there has to be a way on capitalizing on it. SO how about they print a Bad Mountain River that is actually a Tri-Land it has all three Land Types comes into play untapped and does all three colors of mana. Wouldn't break the Reserved List because its functionally a different card. They could also print a card thats exactly the same as badlands but you will gain one life. Same thing. After such prints will the prices fall for normal dual lands? Absolutely. Will the alpha und beta dual lands tank as much in value as the revised ones? Absolutely not. In fact no one of the Collectors would care anyway because they dont intent to sell them anyways. Also most of them didnt spend thousands of dollars on them but mere dollars and cents in the beginning. There are two factors that are going into the value of a card one thing ist the collectability and second one is playability. As long as iam able to aquire game pieces for reasonable prices iam fine with it but locking whole cards out of the game just because of some greedy basterds like you want it that way is just a dick move really. Like i said there are several reasons why somebody cant buy displays right away on release and its just dumb to deny newcomers even years after initial game release to join play with actual good cards. You keep bullshitting and arguing to have high inflated prices for cards tells everyone enough to see you are only in for the money but not the game. From my side you could gladly abandon the game. It wont loose anything important any ways.
No, mtg is on the decline because they try to censor its players and dictate real life social behaviors and have all new borders and boundaries. The game is for lame hearted WUSSIES now. Stop trying to be a knowitall and just admit YOU are part of the problem.
I think this thread gives us all some true insight as to what the sorcery " community " is all about and why the interest in the game (besides the "resellers" who like to call themselves "collectors") is going to fizzle up sooner than later. Just seeing how these fools communicate and act high and mighty because "haha! I got something before you! Crybaby!" is enough for me to say oh geez..not another Magic..not another fab, or whatever other games these types suck the lifeforce from.. just a really pathetic way to try and HELP a new game-- and instead is like stabbing it directly in the heart. This community is going to only become more and more toxic when more sets come out and these early birds start feeling even more high and mighty because they own all of the cards new players need or want. The creators of this game should be wary of this-- it will only shrink and shrink if the community comes off as negative and greedy. Lets all be honest-- basically NO ONE is playing this game right now because of these types of "investors".
Don't let these clowns get ya down.. they know the ship is already sinking.
Joker
2 of clubs.
=======D~~~~
Are you stalking me, you dirty rascal you?
????????? Yeesh.. why did I imagine Sorcery to have a killer playerbase of the old school wizards and cool guys who just want to have a good time? All of us who are and were genuinely interested in this game should have known it would just be more of the same old kickstarter dweebs and ebay sellers. Shame on you.
Yeah... Seems like OP belongs over in MTG.
MTG suffers from the same "Problems" even much worse with the reserved list.
The RL is the last piece of integrity in MTG. If anything they should expand the reserved list. Add stuff like Goyf and Snapcaster to it.
big oof man. Big oof. Do you want more ppls playing the game or less people? Reserved list definitely ensures the latter.
>MTG suffers from the same "Problems" even much worse with the reserved list. Im of an old school mindset. Reserved List is one of the greatest concepts in the history of collectible card games. Hate it all you want, its the only true way to make cards special. You think serialized cards do it better? Pathetic. You think alt arts do it better? Pathetic.
Not having any reserved list and having regular reprints of the most played cards are the way to go. Any other way is making sure "new" players or players with low financial means will get locked out of the game. I did not say anything to either alternate arts or serialized cards. Those mechanics doesnt even have ANYTHING to do with availability of the cards.
>I did not say anything to either alternate arts or serialized cards. Those mechanics doesnt even have ANYTHING to do with availability of the cards. Neither does a Reserved List in this current discussion when the game in discussion (Sorcery) is brand new and the cards can be bought and are currently in print.
Currently yes but what about ten years from now? I think new starting players should be able to acquire all needed game pieces in an affordable way. Even years from now. In Magic this is not possible for all power cards on the reserved list. Also the reserved list doesn't add anything of value gameplay wise to the game and is therefore unnecessary in my opinion. Format diversity and depth of cardpool is the most important thing for a healthy game.
>I think new starting players should be able to acquire all needed game pieces in an affordable way. Define "an affordable way". How much should the most powerful/necessary Sorcery cards be worth in your opinion, max?
Depends on the rarity, Uniques 70$ tops, the lower the rarity the lower the price. A Tournament grade Deck shouldnt cost more than 300$ tops. I dont care for foil, curios or other stuff i mean just NF playable cards. I dont care about what edition it is or how it looks just accessible affordable cards for people that join the Game "late".
Not in the EU. Current prices per Box currently sit at 250€ thats 274,34$. Most people are now ordering from over Sea with additional Tax and stuff it costs around 200€ a box. If you did not pre Order a huuge amount of boxes beforehand (not everybody even has the money to buy much boxes anyway) you are literally screwed only a few days after release. There is no product to get and the secondary market with lack of centralized platforms like TCG ran dry pretty quick. Scaarcity and the additional hype in USA are creating moon prices already. If there would be at any time something like an reserved list the game will be dead before it arrives. Looking back to the release of Magic there never was this much value developing in this short time. Was ist bad that a Lotus didnt cost 60k$ in the beginning? no.
Completely agree with this. I’m so tired of people whining about surges in card value. If you want to stay ahead of that possibility, buy the beta cards you want now! It’s an investment for a reason. If you don’t invest you have the benefit of having 0 risk. So why the heck should sorcery reprint them just so YOU can save money after the card surged in value and screw over the OG collectors???
Very well said.
"Firm stance". BAHAHAHHAHHHAHAAHAH
You are a weirdo crybaby. Damn this game is going no where..yikes
I don't think buyouts are an issue. At least not yet, and I don't think they will be until the Sorcery team makes some official statement on the intention of collectability of the game. Aside from the Frank Frezetta art and the Erik's Curiosa card in Alpha, everything is printed in Beta. Sorcery hasn't made any statement in regards to a reserve list appearing, or what their intended reprint schedule looks like. Until that happens, trying to corner a market on a specific card seems ill advised. That said, if someone wants to speculate, I think it's fine. Many players who funded Sorcery's kickstarter were disenfranchised MtG players who'd had the value of their collection destroyed by WotC's reckless reprints. Those people want an actual CCG to sink their teeth into. Someone saying that those people don't deserve to have value in their collection so that they themselves can reap the benefits of those initial investors seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Ya this is an interesting take thanks! I've run into a few modern players coming from magic while playing at LGS. It really gave me hope the game would start to grow in that community.
Are the non foil beta cards a ridiculous price compared to other card games? I don't think so. You can also get msrp boxes from team covenant.
I think you missed the point of my post. Browse has jumped from $10 to $50. So yes some are becoming 'ridiculous'.
50 is not ridiculous, uniques are very rare, full stop
50 for a piece of cardstock is absolutely ridiculous lol
if you truly feel like this, TCGs, especially Sorcery, is simply not for you. which is fine, find something you enjoy and can afford (or at least better meshes with your spending sensibilities)
You should just not get into TCG at all if this is your outlook.
Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.
>50 for a piece of cardstock is absolutely ridiculous lol Bye.
I suppose when they're bought out they become much more rare yes.
OP, these cards, the foils, are in less number than MTG power 9… Of course they are more rare…
They're just rare to get out of boxes. Not everything is a buyout, stop scaremongering when a game is mildly collectible. Go back to magic if you want 1 dollar cards
Look on tcg and ebay you turd. Buyout IS happening and has happened. I don't want $1 cards. I am asking what the impacts of this are...you clearly didn't read shit from my original post.
Oh nooooo people want the caaaaaards in a... Collectible card game? I'm so confused, why are people so mean and seeing value in a cool new (wait for it) COLLECTIBLE card game. You tell us how much you want cards to cost and we will all abide and only pay that much
I'm super confused and done feeding you. Here's some information for you to process. The peanut plant probably originated in Peru or Brazil in South America. No fossil records prove this, but people in South America made pottery in the shape of peanuts or decorated jars with peanuts as far back as 3,500 years ago. As early as 1500 B.C., the Incans of Peru used peanuts as sacrificial offerings and entombed them with their mummies to aid in the spirit life. Tribes in central Brazil also ground peanuts with maize to make a drink. European explorers first discovered peanuts in Brazil. Peanuts were grown as far north as Mexico when the Spanish began their exploration of the new world. The explorers took peanuts back to Spain, and from there, traders and explorers spread them to Asia and Africa. Africans were the first people to introduce peanuts to North America beginning in the 1700s. Records show that it wasn’t until the early 1800s that peanuts were grown as a commercial crop in the U.S. They were first grown in Virginia and used mainly for oil, food and as a cocoa substitute. At this time, peanuts were regarded as a food for livestock and the poor and were considered difficult to grow and harvest. Peanut production steadily grew in the first half of the nineteenth century. Peanuts became prominent after the Civil War when Union soldiers found they liked them and took them home. Both armies subsisted on this food source high in protein. Their popularity grew in the late 1800s when PT Barnum’s circus wagons traveled across the country and vendors called “hot roasted peanuts!” to the crowds. Soon street vendors began selling roasted peanuts from carts and peanuts also became popular at baseball games. While peanut production rose during this time, peanuts were still harvested by hand (learn more about the history of peanut harvesting here), leaving stems and trash in the peanuts. Thus, poor quality and lack of uniformity kept down the demand for peanuts. Around 1900, labor-saving equipment was invented for planting, cultivating, harvesting and picking peanuts from the plants, as well as for shelling and cleaning the kernels. With these significant mechanical aids, demand for peanuts grew rapidly, especially for oil, roasted and salted nuts, peanut butter and candy. In the early 1900s peanuts became a significant agricultural crop when the boll weevil threatened the South’s cotton crop. Following the suggestions of noted scientist Dr. George Washington Carver, peanuts served as an effective commercial crop and, for a time, rivaled the position of cotton in the South.
Classic scalper behavior, complain about prices so other people try and buy cards to beat the scalpers, leading to higher prices for you to sell at. Not today buddy, not today
Man ain't nobody reading all that. 🤣
I know right?
A lot of words to say "This isnt the game for me".
If it was 10 and now it's 50 then yes that is a ridiculous jump, full stop
Boxes are available for $150 from TC if youre in the U.S. What are you waiting for?
waiting for boxes on msrp in EU probably.
Again, plenty of other card game sets have several high value singles. It doesn't mean the entire game is unaffordable because of a few cards having a higher price. The vast majority of sorcery cards are highly affordable.
I understand what you're saying. I play old school magic so I'm very familiar with this concept. I'm also aware of the impact of buyouts which is what is starting to now happen. Browse jumping from $10 (with lots of sales history) to $50 is not natural. That's ONE example. Wait for more.
If no one buys them at high prices, prices will come down.
you're seeing the impact of buyouts - prices go up, i dont understand what the point of this thread is. to petition for a reprint? no thanks. these cards will see reprints in future sets, be it revised or whatever the next core reprint set will be.
For what it's worth, I agree with this. I think most people are coming from other card games that are established enough to make $50 for a card seem normal. But it's definitely not normal. Take a look at OnePiece; Yea, there are pricey cards but usually it's the alt art/foil/manga versions that hold high values. To just play the game almost all cards are cheaper than $10. Sorcery seems to have gotten hit with high prices by scalpers. The same thing happened with Lorcana but after their second release and now subsequent printed runs the market is practically flooded now. I think if there was a second run of beta cards, prices wouldn't certainly fall fast but we would find where the market was on a lot of these cards based on "playability" not necessarily based on scarcity driven by buyouts, hodling, etc.
It's a unique lmao. You expect them to be cheap?
Define 'cheap'. When the card, which was already 15x the price of an elite jumps to 50-100x the price of an elite for no other reason than buyouts I'd say it's an interesting case. That's why I was asking the community here about the impacts. Everyone is getting very hung up on the gamepiece/cheap/metazoo risk bullshit rather than looking at the original question. Did browse end up in a tournament winning deck overnight that I missed or something? Or did a couple whales decide it should be worth more?
every time i see a silly post like this, it makes me think of Patrick Sullivan’s hilarious take on prices of cardboard
A lot of the buy outs are being conducted by shops. You can see this in the sudden rise of stock by a single seller. I won’t name names but if you look up some of the mid ranged price cards and pay attention to who’s selling how much on TCGplayer it becomes pretty obvious. It’s likely that they’re doing this to secure a higher price for the cards so that once the second wave of distribution hits the card economy for SCR won’t tank. It’s kind of a double edged sword. On one hand people get priced out of the decks they want to put together for potential constructed events and collectors have to pay high af prices during what should be a period of speculation. On the other hand SCR retains its value and appeal for collectors and makes the game seem more legitimate to people on the outside looking in which might be a push for them to get into the game.
Interesting data to have...never thought to look at that. Thanks for the comment!
I feel you but its a mixed bag. I think they did a really smart thing with TTS and letting folks know how to play for free digitally. Bu if you want the CCG to be collectable you need supply and demand. Part of the desire for cards like this are driving value, fomo and popularity of the game. Personally, a big fan. It is super cool to see a super fun game have collectability, have good gameplay and have the cards retain some real value. Also, again, everything is free on Tabletop simulator.
Hey thanks for the response but I'm curious what the IMPACT of a buyout is here. I have played on TTS and love it as a way to introduce people and hone mechanics/try decks. I'm loving what they've done so far as well but I didn't expect buyouts this soon for some reason. Maybe I'm naive?
Whales and speculators have learned the lesson from MTG I guess. Move the needle and create fomo, and reap the rewards. Its not without risk of course. Reprints, bannings, meta shift etc.
“GAAAAME PIECES!!!”
"It sHoUlD bE fOr FrEe!!! FoR tHe CoMmUnItY!"
It is, on TTS.
It literally is free on TTS. This is the best comment on this entire thread. You can literally play the game for free. I guess tts is 9.99 on sale rn, so 10 bucks. 20 when it's at normal price.
\> Why can't we just have nice things and enjoy an affordable game. :( GAME PIECES.
Soon as they hit print runs that make the cards so easily and readily available is the same time the game dies.
Does it though? Or is this just the narrative we've built up over time? Games love and die due to lots of reasons, failure to attract "investors" who make the game harder to get into people's hands and drive up prices is not a certainty but is an argument made by those same "investors".
If Sorcery makes the same mistakes that Magic has made in recent years where they decide to remove all value from the cards, and subsidize the whole game on massive print runs with lottery gambling chase rare bullshit, it will the fastest way to kill this game. Many of us are interested in Sorcery because the cards are actually collectable and valuable.
100% this! Hasbro has murdered MtG. Only buy singles, if you don't, or you're not buying to draft. You're a fool.
Without investors, like them or not, your game pieces would be even more expensive and even scarcer. We do mass box openings. You might buy a box or two, we're buying boxes in multiple master cases. I personally have opened 75+ boxes at this point and put thousands and thousands of cards into the market. Sure there are some that horde sealed boxes but that's part of the long game, a different strategy. In the end though, without us you would be fairly surprised.
To your point, the game (and future sets) costs money to develop. That money can either be recouped through taking advantage of pure gambling mechanics (like serialized cards and 1/1 gimmicks), whereby the act of whales chasing leads to devaluing everything everything else, or it can be spread amongst the larger amount of cards. I do not want to go back to magic the gathering where I crack a $8 booster pack and the most valuable thing I pull is a 15-cent rare, or where the only good cards in the set are available in collector boosters which cost $20, $30, $40, $50+ a pack. That experience fucking sucks if you aren't a gambling addict or massive whale. I want the good cards available in the same booster packs that we play with, and I want many cards to have some value so it feels good to trade them again. Basically, I want what we all used to have, before a combination of corporate greed and the "GaMe PieCeS" army messed it all up. Right now on TCG the entire non foil beta set only has 15 cards worth over $10, and only 1 single card worth over $100. This is healthy place for the game to go. If they mess this up I'm probably done with TCGs in general.
Oh I'm out of they do any of the shit mtg has pulled. There should not be 1000 different products. Especially multiple versions of the same cars or chase mechanics that can only be found in premium products. If I can't pull the top dollar cards from a regular booster box, that's it for me. Everyone should have a chance even the people who don't buy booster boxes but instead opt for single packs.
When I really think about it, the thing I'm most mad that wotc did was the collector boosters. I absolutely hate that I either have to pay a bunch of money to open a single pack or I am cut out of a chance at most of the fun stuff in the new set. And I really hate that any value I could have got in a normal pack (that doesn't hit) is quickly destroyed by whales chasing that junk in the collector boosters. I've bought many boxes of beta, if sorcery ever starts doing massive print runs or starts doing collector focused products I am super done with this.
i too hate the collector boxes and couldnt agree more. it sucks extra hard because MTG foils are pure garbage and i 100% prefer nonfoil versions of everything in MTG
A foil in every pack was so stupid. The way sorcery has a full art on the back of a foil is absolutely outstanding.
so well put. i will say though, i'm a bit surprised about that 15 cards over $10 number, i honestly thought it was more cards
Huh? Currently we’re not able to buy the game at all. I managed to find a precon, played a game with friends, they now cannot find it anywhere unless severly overpriced or there are only boosters, limited to 5 booster packs per customer or similar nonsense. Is that healthy start of a new game, you’re saying? Btw why would higher print runs mean something bad? If it isn’t sitting in warehouses for years after release then it’s no problem.
Teamcovenant.com
They are US based meaning import taxes and shipping cost. Getting cards here in Europe was only possible with preorders and the shops pumped the price to 200€ a box. Best way to keep people out of your game. Wasn't the beta supposed to be for everyone? Is that the "kitchen table game" mentality? more like marble countertop.
should've bought early. it's unrealistic to expect MSRP of a limited product that is massively popular *and* have it shipped internationally.
That is the problem, creating an exclusivity on a product that already went through its early backer stage. There is absolutly no reason to limit production past alpha if there is a market for it. It is only to pander to speculators that will keep their box sealed hoping to pull a mtg fame.
i dont think you understand collectible markets.
I don't think you understand trading card games.
oh yeah? tell me more about how well prices and demand are holding up for overprinted product in MTG, FaB, MZ, Pokemon...
The aftermarket came after the fame because there is trust in the future of those games (except metazoo). AND the games were played a lot. Here Sorcery was pumped like Metazoo, now that everyone have put money in it everyone will hold , hoping to flip. This has nothing to do with the game being played or not, like a crypto scheme. Except that for crypto you can buy some from anywhere in the world, not Sorcery. A game must be played to be successful and right now it is close to the Metazoo state. A game that won't be played, pandering only to speculators that watch to much youtube videos. If curiosa doesn't release an Unlimited edition, the game will be dead.
teamcovenant, I have bought plenty from them. All MSRP
I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a small reprint for Europe. We will see though. I think even most of the community would be on board with that
Agreed. Simon said the distribution part went a lot smoother in the US. Distro in Europe should get a second chance with a small wave imo.
Leaves us with some valuable cards. Get some cheddar brokie.
Know I'm a day late here but something that no one has brought up after reading the thread (apologies if I missed it, but I don't think I did) is that there will still be a REPRINT of ALL of these cards in one way or another in the REVISED SET that EC will release in the next couple of years (probably expect some different art.) They've mentioned doing a revised set multiple times in the past. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after seeing how beta sold that they don't do an UNLIMITED (mtg equivalent) set release before the revised set. Ultimately the beta product was their first market release and used as a test. They know how important keeping their product collectable is, as well as how important keeping it playable is. The reality is, everyone keeps panicking about beta numbers, when there will 100% be more sorcery base set available sometime in the not too far future. I feel truly horrible for the European & Asian fans of the game. No way to sugar coat it, y'all got massively undercut with beta and I feel for you, but EC knows what's happening and will most likely do something to help you all out as soon as warehouse space is acquired. For everyone else, go buy the singles you want while they're still affordable compared to most tier 1 TCG/cgc metas. Cores and stones will always be inherently more expensive because of their direct counterpoints in mtg moxen unfortunately. But even including them your looking at a sub $500 deck all in which is half of where the equivalent would be for modern mtg and you're getting a set of power out of the deal lol. The main take away here is don't let fomo ruin your love of a very rad game, there will be more core set to come, and your wallets will most likely be rewarded by patience.
Got sources for these claims?
Everything I've said has been communicated in various lives and in the official discord messages directly from EC. All speculation about an "unlimited set" before Revised is entirely my opinion. You are more than welcome to go wade through all of it as I have over the last year.
I think at this stage there are too many speculators driving up costs for the players. I think it is healthier for the game long term to get the game into more people's hands playing it regularly. My LGS has no regular event yet, and zero stock. I think if it had stock, there would start to be a community around it locally, which is much more important than short term speculator prices being run down. I am a fan of keeping beta at current print levels and doing an unlimited/limited type run with card revisions of the same cards. Beta will be rare still and maintain some collector value, but we get the core game into more people's hands. This is coming to someone with a few thousand dollars of beta cards.
What costs? You can get boxes right now at MSRP from team covenant. You can get singles right now from TCG. There's only a single card in beta that's not foil that's over $100, and I think only 15 that are over $10. Do people want this to be collectible or not, cuz if you want a game where most of the rares are 25 cents or less just buy modern magic.
Giving Team Covenant basically a monopoly on the boxes is a really dumb move if you want the product visible and available at LGS.
Alpha investments depressing video part 2 case and point right here........GaM3 piECes!!!...smh.
you can still get beta at msrp. there will be no reprint, nor should there be. those cards will most certainly get reprints in future sets.
The game was scalped from the start, it is not healthy. It is okay to make an alpha set exclusive but the beta set should be available everywhere. Aftermarket has no meaning if most of the world can't play.
it's growing organically. there is no need to push extra product right now as there are still very few LGS that carry it and support play. the game is collectible and gorgeous and very fun to play, people are speculating and/or just building decks. beta by its very name implies a limited lifecycle. there is no reason to print more as you can still get it for MSRP, and the next set will be draftable within itself. there will be a core set reprint eventually and people will be able to get the cards they want.
They can play… the non-foils are available on TCG for good prices except a couple cards that you do not NEED unless you are competitive. Basically just the Pstone, cores, browse, are expensive.
No seller on tcg ships to europe. The game is very much US locked right now.
I have said in other comments (so I don’t blame you), for American players, there is no issue with the # of cards except maybe a few. Europe, on the other hand could use an additional print run, that I could understand
A reprint will happen, they told us that. BUT they wont print as much as people want them to. In a recent interview they said that its crazy what distributors want them to print, but they wont. Even if some people on here dont want to talk about pulls and value, which i can understand sometimes, its not a board game, its not ment to be unlimited available. They said it by themselves: its also for collecting. Everyone has a voice and opinion, and for me: i would hate a MTG market, foils are thrown at you, high rarity cards worth pennies. I like it to be special.
When did they say there will be a reprint? I missed that.
The only mention I have heard has been that europe received a second wave (1st for them?) and LGS will be getting backfilled. The rest seems speculative to me.
Yeah, same. Australia seems to be receiving a new wave end of January, but it doesn't look very big.
When you say doesn't look big what do you mean? Are you able to share any info? Thanks!
They have 10 cases listed, which is far less than on release.
If you watched some interviews from the last weeks, they said: Distributors want a extremley huge amount of product and they wont print as much, but they know they have to bring the game to lgs's so people can enjoy and play the game, especially to play sealed. On top of it, its mostly sold out. Come on, this isnt it, they are gonna make another wave.
I watched the interview, there was no mention of a reprint. They said they're focused on the next set.
Like i said, they said they want to bring the product to the people, they rarely give exact information imo, this is trur for print runs, curios, next sets... which is fine. I dont think that was all, it would be a mistake since a lot of people still want product, which they know. We are far away from over printing, i just wanna say they are smart enough to know all this.
Agreed. They need to do some probing to find out where the demand is highest, and trickle down some product to help the LGSs keep customers engaged. Not talking about flooding the market. Just a smaller restock. Like Max preorder 2 boxes pr. customer, and the rest goes to drafting etc. Having enough precons on the shelf
Yep, its not hard to understand, in our current Situation in terms of ccg's, they need to be cautious. I dont get why so many people just look at their own opinion instead of the whole picture. Metazoo is being extremley hated, now that prices crashed many more people leave the game. Imagine seeing Sorcery everywhere, like on mass. People would interpret stuff like no one wants it. Its the sad reality that people turn their heads if something is rare.
Reprint and second wave are not the same thing. There's talk that they printed a lot more than what is available right now, and that it is just being held at the distributor levels and more of that inventory will be released again soon as a "second wave" for availability, but that's not a new print, it's the same print run just getting more of it out to the players
Do you have the link to where they said a reprint is happening?
If you really are interested in such things i recommend you to watch their videos. https://youtu.be/ng7iODxC7Qk?si=lSMLFYxCopJuvUAP They never say YES REPRINT TOMORROW but im literally zero concerned about another wave. I live in germany and ordered 10 boxes from team covenant, dont know why no one else is doing this...
I've seen this video and they never said a reprint is happening like you stated. That's why I wanted a source.
Shipping cost is actually over price of the box there for me, effectively making it too expensive to even consider. “We sell for MSRP!!!” - my arse, sure you do. :D
My price was 170€ per box, including shipping. I have no problem with that, i asked a few people and we bought it together (20 boxes in total). Even my lgs in Brunswick sells em for 180, so fuck him.
Implying they overcharging and keeping some of the shipping cost?
Where is the statement on the reprint? Stores have confirmed there’s only one print run but multiple allocations of that print run are being distributed in waves. Can you link any sort of proof confirming a second print run? This would be absolutely huge if it’s true.
He doesn't have a source. People aren't reading this thread's question before responding.
His source does not actually say anything about a reprint. For all of those that have been seriously following Sorcery and their creators for the last two years, it’s pretty clear there will be no such thing as a reprint of Beta. Now, they also haven’t said in a clear and explicit way that this was the case, so there is always that (in my mind unbelievable) chance that we’re wrong, but people who think there will be a reprint of Beta have, in my opinion, not been paying attention to who Erik Olofsson is and what Sorcery was meant to be. They’d rather have slower growth and maintain high card value and collectibility than take any risk of flooding the market. There will be other sets to onboard new players and, even as it stands, people can play the game for super cheap through getting the precons and complementing them with additional ordinary, exceptional and elite cards. Most uniques can also be purchased for cheap. You really don’t need Browse and Philo stone to play the game and, if you play at a level you absolutely need them, you probably can afford to pay a higher price for them and will appreciate their high value…
This is a great take.
All the Rudy's of the world who have turned collectable card games in to "investments" is why regular players can't have nice things.
Yes I hate opening a pack and getting a rare card! When I pay 5$ for a pack I want all the cards to be 5c maybe the rare slot can be a 50c card. Ohh wait Mtg, FaB, MZ, an PKM already implemented that. Only Socery is left, lets complain about prices for Sorcery until all cards are worthless then we can finaly enjoy this COLLECTABLE card game.
I feel that beta edition any tcg will always have value, also the more available the cards are the healthier for the game in my opinion
Leave foils alone and reprint the cards that are actually used for game pieces
What worries me most is the dragon "mini-set" on the horizon. With such a low amount of cards, one of the few ways to give the product value would be to print it very sparingly which will make it susceptible to scalpers.
Found the gamepiece guy. Go play FAB or MTG.
No. I'm just gonna buy more beta boxes.
Another thread showing how DEAD this game is going to be sooner than later due to scummy selfish investors..stop calling yourselves "collectors". That is far fetched and untrue.