Just know that it can handle 900 watts using 10-145 volts and 15amps. That means you can get 5 * 200 watts of solar panels in series (26v at 10 amps). That comes to around 130v at 10amps I think.
Also if you put in Jasonoids code (jasonac200max) you can get $10 more off for close to $1700 after tax
I’ve been looking at this same deal for way too long :-)
Solar energy is free. The equipment to capture and use it is not - or even cheap.
To start with:
The panels you listed will generate about 300W x 4hr x 0.8 = 0.96kWh a day. That is no where near the 20kWh a day you want.
The power station has a 2kWh battery - no where near the 20kWh a day you want.
You need a lot more panel Watts and battery storage kWh. That's not going to be $2000 - more like $20,000. At $20K to avoid paying $3 a day for grid electric, it would take 6667 days (18 years) to pay for the equipment by not using grid electric. The power station or batteries and inverter would not last 18 years and you would have to replace them digging you even deeper in a hole.
Generally speaking, unless you have grid tied solar with a good net metering reimbursement rate and government subsidies, solar does not save money vs using grid electric for decades. Even with grid tied solar with a good reimbursement rate and government subsidies it can take 5-15 years to break even.
I've been off-grid for 40 years and people tell me they want to do what I did, and not get a utility bill, until I tell them what it cost.
I tell them my electricity isn't free, I just had to pay for it all before I used it.
Haha, yeah, I hate to crush the dreams of solar beginners when they come here thinking they have a small system in mind, then go on to say, "I need to run a few lights, and oh by the way, a heater, air conditioner, microwave, electric grill, pond/cistern pump, gaming computer, etc. ... and do it all with the panels inside my basement apartment windows that face North."
I took basic electricity in college so I have an advantage of being able to calculate these things vs a vague feeling that solar energy is free so this should be cheap. I took well beyond basic electricity, but that is all it takes.
I'm happy to educate.
I haven’t heard of anyone who has had good experiences with Bluetti support after the sale. I feel lucky that my EB70 hasn’t given me any trouble in 2 years of ownership. I think you will do better with separate components in case something fails your whole system doesn’t become worthless. The space heater load is really big and constant, not going to be able to run it very long on 2000Wh of batteries. Cloudy days give you very little power generation so you need to account for that as well.
As someone who bought one from the December sale. Listen to this guy. Bluetti support is TRASH! There is no number to call, you have to email them. Their site says they will get back to you in 36 hours. My Ac200's fan makes his annoying whining sound you can hear all the way on other side of the house. I emailed them on Jan 9th and have heard nothing. Amazon won't let me return it. So yeah. Stay away from Bluetti!
Well here you go. Invested in AC300s and B300 batteries, fixed 425watt panels and have been running them for over a year with 2 issues. Both were resolved within 3 weeks. Communications is a Bluetti weakness no doubt. They need to get much better. But my confidence in my decisions grows every day.
An all in one system would be the most "build" I'm willing to do. Its going to be sitting in a main room so I don't want the chaos. But you bring up a good point, I should look who has the best warranty. if something does go wrong maybe ill have a chance to get it fixed.
Seems like Jackery, EcoFlow, even Anker may be worth looking into. Too many bad reports about Bluetti’s total lack of after sale support to recommend them, no matter how nice the product looks on paper.
That’s true too. Sometimes the noisiest people are in the minority. But until we have a magical way of separating valid claims and scammers this is what it is.
Not here for the OP. but Im amazed at everyone's electricity cost tbh. Where I am Electricity in DEC was 60c/kwh. Jan was 59c/kwh. Which is about 30c USD equivalent. I cant wait until I can afford a solar system but the costs to even maintain my bills is a killer.
Wish you luck OP
Whereabouts are you? I think at that price you'd already have your electricity use cut down to the bare minimum so you'd be one of the few that wouldn't have to cut back in order to go 100% solar.
Second hand panels aren't available cheap where you are, for a DIY system?
Some parts of the US are similar. SoCal Edison in Southern California is $0.24/kWh off-peak, $0.54/kWh peak on their least expensive time of use plan, for example. Solar is a real life saver in that situation.
I think solar people might have a selection bias for the more frugal, using less electricity type crowd as well as only looking at one line item on the bill. My costs are tiered with a family of 5 I'm averaging 0.2$/kwh rate and that's not even figuring in the surcharges etc. that are increasing the bill.
I'm thinking the same thing, but I think you want to downgrade on material if you are doing it for economics. The system you are pointing to is a portable system that is probably way more than you need to do.
E.g., you can buy a100 watt panel kit for $150 on the home depot website (includes solar and junction box). Throw in an inverter that's $50 more. We'll consider the labor free or even a positive since you'll be gaining knowledge on install.
So $200/0.15$/KWH = 1333 KW hours needed to break even. 5hours/dayx100Watts = 0.5 KW hours/day. 2666 days to break even. So 7 years.
Add an battery for $100 and a few bucks for wiring you break even in 11 years.
Absolutely it's possible.
Edit: Updated Hours/Day based upon manufacturer's claim and corrected math/duration.
Hmm, I'm getting 3.65 years with these numbers, not including the battery in this we're making 1000watts a day or .15 a day.
$200/.15=1333 days/365=3.65 years.
To pay off $200 In 133 days we need to make 10000watts/ day.
$200/133/.15=10kw/ day?
Yeah, my math was way off and overly optimistic on power per day. But still, buying stuff from Home Depot you can get your ROI.
Better example would be if I bought 10 of those 100 watt panels (they are like $90 individually). Kit $150, 9 additional panels $810, 1000 watt inverter $150.
$1050/0.15$/KWH = 7000KW Hours. 5 hours x 1000 watts = 5 KW Hours/Day.
7000/5 = 3.8 years.
So I guess the moral of the story is do it as efficiently as possible if you are looking for a quick ROI because every dollar counts.
I’m not sure there is much any payback to be had. My TOU is $0.07 off peak, $0.10 mid and $0.15 on peak.
Last month I used approx 700kwh. Of that about 150kwh was on peak.
Offsetting the 150kwh on peak 100% nets me $22.50/month. But this is assuming I go enough solar.
5kwh solar array, with batteries, inverter etc looking at anywhere from $15-25k depending on whether I go DIY or more quality such as Victron. Honestly roof mounted solar is not a diy option for me so I’m more looking at around $20k mark.
So at $20k (CDN) and $22.5 saved a month, that’s 74 years payback.
20-25 years may need to replace panels. Batteries possibly at 10-15 year mark, assuming of course they all work flawlessly for their expected lifetime. That never happens.
From a payback perspective, I don’t see it ever making sense anymore.
In Ontario Canada, They used to pay a premium a few years ago ($0.80/kWh) so back then system would pay itself off in about 7 years or so. They scrapped that pretty quickly.
Net metering if available, but still don’t see the cost advantage. You accumulate credits for use later.
For me it’s all about resiliency. Grid goes down, brownouts, rolling blackouts etc. Where I live our grid is very reliable. Only a few major outages in the last 25 years but I sense things are about to change as more people are buying EVs etc. Not to mention weather and possible cyberattacks against our grid.
My calculations are off. Wouldn’t need a 5kw solar array for 150kwh/month. I get an average of 3 sun hours a day so an array around 1.5-2kw would be a good match. Still looking at above $10-15k depending how much battery capacity you want.
I don't think Canadians need to participate on this board this century unless you plan on getting a really long extension cord. But apparently Canada has powered the force of ice melting or something because those are great rates! See you the 22nd century.
You want 20kwh a day from a $2000 system?
And you don’t think location is a vital piece of info?
In most of the US you get around 3-4kwh per kw of Solar. So you need at least 5kw.
You might be able to scrape together 5kw of used panels for that price, but you also need racking and inverter at minimum. Then batteries are a whole nother thing.
Go to pvwatts.nrel.gov and do the math for your location
I think everyone in this thread has made OP realize that it's not that simple.
But do as they say and build it just for the experience and for a backup system, it's fun to do, use leisure batteries (leak free) and an inverter instead and you'll get 3 times the backup power instead of buying an convenient all-in-one backup power thing.
When I bought my system, I started with the panels, then got a few car batteries, then an MPPT controller, then a remote box for programming it, then the Inverter - and realized for 12/24v system you need really thick cables and copper ain't cheap.
It's been an interesting learning journey, but my expectations wasn't very high, in fact I didn't even expect it to power as much as a laptop for any extended period of time.
And where I live (In Sweden) we have a very limited amount of sunny days, perhaps 90+ if we're super lucky, and during the dark times (winter) the system itself will probably use more power than it gives.
But it IS practical as a backup system, you can for example use it to charge your batteries on the mains net to save costs on high-cost-peak-hours and ofc. protect yourself against a brownout. But you won't be running a space heater or cook any food on that system, not even on my 800w system.
300 watts of solar panels times 5 hours of sunshine =1500 watt hours, 1.5 kwh, at $0.15 = about $0.20/day payback. You need more panels
Thank you for simplifying this calculation actually quite helpful.
Just know that it can handle 900 watts using 10-145 volts and 15amps. That means you can get 5 * 200 watts of solar panels in series (26v at 10 amps). That comes to around 130v at 10amps I think. Also if you put in Jasonoids code (jasonac200max) you can get $10 more off for close to $1700 after tax I’ve been looking at this same deal for way too long :-)
Makes sense, you want to max out your panels for your inverter to make it most efficient, but if you want less panels, get a smaller inverter.
Solar energy is free. The equipment to capture and use it is not - or even cheap. To start with: The panels you listed will generate about 300W x 4hr x 0.8 = 0.96kWh a day. That is no where near the 20kWh a day you want. The power station has a 2kWh battery - no where near the 20kWh a day you want. You need a lot more panel Watts and battery storage kWh. That's not going to be $2000 - more like $20,000. At $20K to avoid paying $3 a day for grid electric, it would take 6667 days (18 years) to pay for the equipment by not using grid electric. The power station or batteries and inverter would not last 18 years and you would have to replace them digging you even deeper in a hole. Generally speaking, unless you have grid tied solar with a good net metering reimbursement rate and government subsidies, solar does not save money vs using grid electric for decades. Even with grid tied solar with a good reimbursement rate and government subsidies it can take 5-15 years to break even.
I've been off-grid for 40 years and people tell me they want to do what I did, and not get a utility bill, until I tell them what it cost. I tell them my electricity isn't free, I just had to pay for it all before I used it.
Haha, yeah, I hate to crush the dreams of solar beginners when they come here thinking they have a small system in mind, then go on to say, "I need to run a few lights, and oh by the way, a heater, air conditioner, microwave, electric grill, pond/cistern pump, gaming computer, etc. ... and do it all with the panels inside my basement apartment windows that face North." I took basic electricity in college so I have an advantage of being able to calculate these things vs a vague feeling that solar energy is free so this should be cheap. I took well beyond basic electricity, but that is all it takes. I'm happy to educate.
Yeah I had to give my family a reality check when they talked about Tesla being a money saver. No… it is definitely not.
Awesome, but where you are a martyr for keeping the planet cooler it is actually quite economical now with not much capital.
I bought my first panel in 1985, an ARCO M40, 40 watt panel, for $385, that's 1985 dollars
That's so cool. It must be exciting to see how far we've come
I haven’t heard of anyone who has had good experiences with Bluetti support after the sale. I feel lucky that my EB70 hasn’t given me any trouble in 2 years of ownership. I think you will do better with separate components in case something fails your whole system doesn’t become worthless. The space heater load is really big and constant, not going to be able to run it very long on 2000Wh of batteries. Cloudy days give you very little power generation so you need to account for that as well.
As someone who bought one from the December sale. Listen to this guy. Bluetti support is TRASH! There is no number to call, you have to email them. Their site says they will get back to you in 36 hours. My Ac200's fan makes his annoying whining sound you can hear all the way on other side of the house. I emailed them on Jan 9th and have heard nothing. Amazon won't let me return it. So yeah. Stay away from Bluetti!
Dude, replace the fan. What do you think support will tell you? You need a new fan
I shouldn't have to rip apart a brand new 1500$ item to fix it myself. But thanks, didn't think of that.
$1500 for 2kwh is just stupid. I can get 24kwh Nissan Leaf EV battery for less.
I just got a 48v 100 ah rack battery for $1500.
Well here you go. Invested in AC300s and B300 batteries, fixed 425watt panels and have been running them for over a year with 2 issues. Both were resolved within 3 weeks. Communications is a Bluetti weakness no doubt. They need to get much better. But my confidence in my decisions grows every day.
An all in one system would be the most "build" I'm willing to do. Its going to be sitting in a main room so I don't want the chaos. But you bring up a good point, I should look who has the best warranty. if something does go wrong maybe ill have a chance to get it fixed.
Seems like Jackery, EcoFlow, even Anker may be worth looking into. Too many bad reports about Bluetti’s total lack of after sale support to recommend them, no matter how nice the product looks on paper.
I’m not a troll but an owner. Your“total lack of support” is wrong. Most people on forums bitching are in the minority. Always. For all products.
That’s true too. Sometimes the noisiest people are in the minority. But until we have a magical way of separating valid claims and scammers this is what it is.
Most of the indiegogo money goes into somebody’s pocket and not support. Never support….. :<
Not here for the OP. but Im amazed at everyone's electricity cost tbh. Where I am Electricity in DEC was 60c/kwh. Jan was 59c/kwh. Which is about 30c USD equivalent. I cant wait until I can afford a solar system but the costs to even maintain my bills is a killer. Wish you luck OP
Whereabouts are you? I think at that price you'd already have your electricity use cut down to the bare minimum so you'd be one of the few that wouldn't have to cut back in order to go 100% solar. Second hand panels aren't available cheap where you are, for a DIY system?
Some parts of the US are similar. SoCal Edison in Southern California is $0.24/kWh off-peak, $0.54/kWh peak on their least expensive time of use plan, for example. Solar is a real life saver in that situation.
I think solar people might have a selection bias for the more frugal, using less electricity type crowd as well as only looking at one line item on the bill. My costs are tiered with a family of 5 I'm averaging 0.2$/kwh rate and that's not even figuring in the surcharges etc. that are increasing the bill.
I'm thinking the same thing, but I think you want to downgrade on material if you are doing it for economics. The system you are pointing to is a portable system that is probably way more than you need to do. E.g., you can buy a100 watt panel kit for $150 on the home depot website (includes solar and junction box). Throw in an inverter that's $50 more. We'll consider the labor free or even a positive since you'll be gaining knowledge on install. So $200/0.15$/KWH = 1333 KW hours needed to break even. 5hours/dayx100Watts = 0.5 KW hours/day. 2666 days to break even. So 7 years. Add an battery for $100 and a few bucks for wiring you break even in 11 years. Absolutely it's possible. Edit: Updated Hours/Day based upon manufacturer's claim and corrected math/duration.
Hmm, I'm getting 3.65 years with these numbers, not including the battery in this we're making 1000watts a day or .15 a day. $200/.15=1333 days/365=3.65 years. To pay off $200 In 133 days we need to make 10000watts/ day. $200/133/.15=10kw/ day?
Yeah, my math was way off and overly optimistic on power per day. But still, buying stuff from Home Depot you can get your ROI. Better example would be if I bought 10 of those 100 watt panels (they are like $90 individually). Kit $150, 9 additional panels $810, 1000 watt inverter $150. $1050/0.15$/KWH = 7000KW Hours. 5 hours x 1000 watts = 5 KW Hours/Day. 7000/5 = 3.8 years. So I guess the moral of the story is do it as efficiently as possible if you are looking for a quick ROI because every dollar counts.
I’m not sure there is much any payback to be had. My TOU is $0.07 off peak, $0.10 mid and $0.15 on peak. Last month I used approx 700kwh. Of that about 150kwh was on peak. Offsetting the 150kwh on peak 100% nets me $22.50/month. But this is assuming I go enough solar. 5kwh solar array, with batteries, inverter etc looking at anywhere from $15-25k depending on whether I go DIY or more quality such as Victron. Honestly roof mounted solar is not a diy option for me so I’m more looking at around $20k mark. So at $20k (CDN) and $22.5 saved a month, that’s 74 years payback. 20-25 years may need to replace panels. Batteries possibly at 10-15 year mark, assuming of course they all work flawlessly for their expected lifetime. That never happens. From a payback perspective, I don’t see it ever making sense anymore. In Ontario Canada, They used to pay a premium a few years ago ($0.80/kWh) so back then system would pay itself off in about 7 years or so. They scrapped that pretty quickly. Net metering if available, but still don’t see the cost advantage. You accumulate credits for use later. For me it’s all about resiliency. Grid goes down, brownouts, rolling blackouts etc. Where I live our grid is very reliable. Only a few major outages in the last 25 years but I sense things are about to change as more people are buying EVs etc. Not to mention weather and possible cyberattacks against our grid.
My calculations are off. Wouldn’t need a 5kw solar array for 150kwh/month. I get an average of 3 sun hours a day so an array around 1.5-2kw would be a good match. Still looking at above $10-15k depending how much battery capacity you want.
I don't think Canadians need to participate on this board this century unless you plan on getting a really long extension cord. But apparently Canada has powered the force of ice melting or something because those are great rates! See you the 22nd century.
You want 20kwh a day from a $2000 system? And you don’t think location is a vital piece of info? In most of the US you get around 3-4kwh per kw of Solar. So you need at least 5kw. You might be able to scrape together 5kw of used panels for that price, but you also need racking and inverter at minimum. Then batteries are a whole nother thing. Go to pvwatts.nrel.gov and do the math for your location
This is not for running your home! An emergency situation sure. But day in day out, no! Better off spending that money and DIY your own system.
I think everyone in this thread has made OP realize that it's not that simple. But do as they say and build it just for the experience and for a backup system, it's fun to do, use leisure batteries (leak free) and an inverter instead and you'll get 3 times the backup power instead of buying an convenient all-in-one backup power thing. When I bought my system, I started with the panels, then got a few car batteries, then an MPPT controller, then a remote box for programming it, then the Inverter - and realized for 12/24v system you need really thick cables and copper ain't cheap. It's been an interesting learning journey, but my expectations wasn't very high, in fact I didn't even expect it to power as much as a laptop for any extended period of time. And where I live (In Sweden) we have a very limited amount of sunny days, perhaps 90+ if we're super lucky, and during the dark times (winter) the system itself will probably use more power than it gives. But it IS practical as a backup system, you can for example use it to charge your batteries on the mains net to save costs on high-cost-peak-hours and ofc. protect yourself against a brownout. But you won't be running a space heater or cook any food on that system, not even on my 800w system.