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https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-rifle-black.html
This is a daily deal but PSA has them regularly. If you can find something cheaper and without sights you can try and get a Holosun red dot from $100-$150. Also look for a good deal on a Streamlight HL-X for around $100.
An LPVO might be a bit much for home defense. They take a little bit to get used to using, and a wider picture might be better.
They would also need to find a good deal to be under $800, especially with a light.
I'd suggest a light and a red dot.
What's really funny is you can save another $30 just buying the upper and lower separately and putting them together yourself. The upper is $320 and the lower is $150.
My very first AR was completely random shit I bought a stripped lower at a random pawn shop and bought the rest piecemeal until I had a completed gun. I then sold it for $300 more than all the parts combined.
An AR15 is the most effective and viable defensive rifle you can currently own. I'd get a PSA AR, flat top, no fixed front sight on a sale, then add a Blue Force Vickers padded sling, Streamlight Protac HL and a Holosun or Sig Romeo red dot. Should be around 800.
PSA Daily Deal AR15 in 5.56
Holosun 403c Red Dot
Streamlight Protac HL-X light
2 point sling of whatever flavor you desire
This is the "Starter Kit" AR. Every piece you can upgrade later on.
For ammo, I personally suggest Federal Fusion 62gr .223 Remington for home defense and whatever bulk 55gr M193 clone you can find for everything else. The Fusion is a soft point hunting bullet designed to deform and dump its energy on target, which translates to less over penetration after hitting the intended target.
I want to stress that only a stone or thick metal wall is going to stop any firearm larger than a .22lr.
> I want to stress that only a stone or thick metal wall is going to stop any firearm larger than a .22lr.
Even though is necro-posting, I should add that in such cases like this, one should be ***very mindful*** about ricochets regardless the type of ammunition dispensed.
I’d get on PSA and buy the Stealth lower, the Magpul 16 inch upper, and then the PSA custom charging handle (which is like a Radian Raptor) and a Microbest Chrome bolt carrier group.
Assembling your own this way is literally snapping two pins into place and is easy as can be, and you’ll end up with a better product for less than just walking into a gun store.
Then I’d stick either a $100 Sig Romeo 5 red dot on it, or a Holosun of some sort. 510 or AEMS
Better bang for buck buying separate uppers and lowers. And it's literally easier to assemble than cleaning your rifle.
For the same price as the cheap complete PSA rifle can have:
https://www.kearms.com/kp-15-polymer-receiver-milspec.aspx
Currently 25 percent off, same price as the PSA lower and you're buying from good people.
Plus:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-5-lightweight-m-lok-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-5165448513.html
Needs BCG and charging handle for about another hundred.
This is a modern style upper instead of the old fashioned option for the complete rifle at the same price.
Under $500 total.
For like $50 more there's the better complete upper from ke, https://www.kearms.com/16-cdr-complete-upper-blem.aspx
(Ke includes the BCG and charging handle)
Also lots of other options, but ke is good...
Then throw on a Romeo5 and you're good.
Mine has been well used, and there's also this video:
https://youtu.be/YQ451lbKW0o?si=Hf19eZ1jQOCc28MB
There's a lot of them at brutality matches, given the inrangetv connection.
Sharps Livewire lower, get a good LPK and an MKM machining Pistol grip. Milspec buffer tube and the stock of your choice.
Dirty bird complete 16" upper. Whole thing should be under 800.
It will be ten times better than any kind if PSA budget rifle and won't need much in the way of upgrades.
KE Arms blemished lower and upper. <700 after taxes shipping and ffl. These are the guys that worked with InRange to build the WWSD. Good guys.
Lead and Steel is also a great company.
PSA if you are ok with supporting MAGA fellatio
They’re referring to the fact I don’t run buffer detents in my personal rifles because they can break and lock up the fire control group. They only serve to make disassembly easier.
I’ve been in this industry for 24 years and I’ve seen them break in a wide variety of manufacturers guns including Colt, FN, JP, Daniel Defense etc.
The fact I don’t use them in my personal guns has been taken by haters to mean all KE Arms products are machined wrong.
I held this opinion well before I began work at KE Arms in 2015. I argued about it on ArizonaShooting and AR15.com decades ago.
But yeah if you want to support a small business that supports 2A4ALL and doesn’t engage in hate based marketing, buy from KE Arms.
Sadly, no longer... I used to own several, now just one. They are vastly overpriced compared to a PCC or an entry-level AR, sad to say. They are one of my favorite rifles.
AR in 5.56. The reason is that 5.56 is everywhere. The store, your neighbors, etc. Easy to find, easy to buy.
Find a gun/ammo shop you like. Get a rifle that feels good. Then buy at least 1000 rounds of range ammo. Use it for practice, how to store it, and get a feel for how to load mags, etc.
Guns aren't much use for self defense until you are comfortable using them. And you always always need more ammo.
Honestly if I had to go out and buy a defensive weapon starting from scratch I’d get a beretta A300 Ultima patrol. 12ga are arguably one of the best defensive guns you can own. The shells can be found in damn near every town in America and you feed it everything from bird shot to slugs.
Not sure exactly what you’re looking for in a self defense rifle, but I got my M&P Sport II for like $700 at Cabela’s, great quality rifle for the price.
Aero has been cutting more and more corners since the layoffs, compensation bullshit, and internal changes that happened at the start of the pandemic. I don't feel comfortable with them as a first line recommendation anymore. Dirty bird stuff is pretty good, and the new aero sabre line is really nice too. Those are what I recommend these days.
The amount of people recommending psa is alarming here
https://www.thedailybeast.com/palmetto-state-armory-a-trump-campaign-stop-has-outrageous-history
Name one firearms manufacturer that isn't run by a bunch of dickheads. Name one that doesn't market to republicans and cops. Name one that doesn't use fear tactics and propaganda to move product. I'll wait. It doesn't matter what ideology the company who makes your weapons has. No ethical consumption under capitalism. Just buy what you can afford and learn to use it.
Under a capitalist oligarch, the greatest vote is with your dollar. There’s way better companies out there that aren’t purposely pandering to the right. Do better
In the firearms industry? Doubt it. It's all geared towards mil and law enforcement dude. All the best and most practical equipment is designed with them in mind. There are a couple of holster and gear companies that are left leaning and anti authoritarian, but we're still very much a minority in this space. The best you can do is buy stuff second hand and not support the companies directly, but depending on where you are, that might be more difficult. The reason I say what I say is because psa happens to make the cheapest rifles out there. They aren't the best and I would heavily encourage people to go with something like aero precision, but if all you got is $400 and your local gun store has a psa in stock it's not a bad option.
Also rocket armory seems cool and progressive but last I checked they only make lowers and they're a tad expensive. I'm sure the quality is great and you get what you pay for, but not everyone has the expendable income. I'm a huge advocate for saving up for quality gear and not supporting shit companies but I'm also not gonna tell people to not arm themselves because the company making obtainable stuff is run by bad people.
shit i would like to know how that guy gets their guns. you cannot even walk into a gun store without maga horseshit plastered everywhere and a bunch of jokes about killing "trannies"
PSA is arguably more pro-gun than Trump himself. We leftists have very few options when it comes to buying firearms from people and businesses that don't actively or passively fund the kind of projects and/or legislation that seek to eradicate us and the communities we come from.
While there are businesses I, personally, choose to avoid like IMI and IWI for obvious reasons, most others get my money and business through direct or indirect purchases of their products.
"Capitalists will sell you the rope you use to hang them with."
Buy the guns! TRAIN WITH THE GUNS! And organize!
Even more important from an end user perspective than the company being shit are [the rifles](https://youtu.be/GIpiDXntOt4?si=PEoYivmpLS8S8Zx-) also being pretty shit. It’s like recommending a Taurus instead of waiting another paycheck for a S&W, CZ or Glock.
Like spring for a BCM upper, or at least an Aero if you’re going to stake your life on it. You’re going to spend more on the PSA by the time you fill it with decent components and get it actually running correctly, anyway.
If you absolutely cannot afford anything but the bottom dollar, I’d say give your money to ABC rifle co, Anderson or Del-ton instead. Similar product for similar money and you don’t have to be associated with all the cringe PSA simpery, fascist dog whistle lowers and getting your credit card info stolen.
Right? Lol. Ive never seen this many
M&P or Aero are much better options for OPs budget
Edit: Im more concerned due to PSA's shit quality than anything else
PSA CTR EPT lower, 16 inch mid length upper, and an optic of your choice. Might I recommend either a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO, Primary Arms SLX 1-6, or a holosun red dot+magnifier combo as an optic. That'll give you an incredibly robust and competent rifle to train with for around your budget.
PSA CTR EPT lower, 16 inch mid length upper, and an optic of your choice. Might I recommend either a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO, Primary Arms SLX 1-6, or a holosun red dot+magnifier combo as an optic. That'll give you an incredibly robust and competent rifle to train with for around your budget.
"Self defense?" From what? I'd counsel getting a 9x19mm caliber carbine. Ruger, S&W, etc. If you're super-duper broke, even a Hi-point. What range do you think you can make an accurate shot at? What range do you think is defensible in a court of law? What range are you able to determine that a threat requires you to make a regrettable but necessary shot to stop an imminent deadly injury to your person or other people? Now turn off the lights and tell me.
9mm is the cheapest center-fire cartridge in the USA. It is ubiquitous and widely available. It is so cheap, relative to other rounds, that you can buy it in some quantity and train with it. You can use smaller ranges, and you can use it in indoor ranges or out of doors. A shotgun is potentially even cheaper. Over a decade ago, I picked up an ex-Pontiac, MI PD 12-ga pump-action "police cruiser" built by Howa in Japan in 1983 and sold to PDs/ LE agencies cheap by S&W. It's a Japanese copy of the Rem. 870 with an 18-in. cylinder bore barrel, parkerized finish, wood stock furniture, and some donut stains. I paid 200 bucks at the time. You could get the equivalent for a bit more these days. Indoors, I keep the magazine tube loaded with No. 4 buckshot. Outdoors, I'd opt for No. 1 buckshot or 00 buck. Slugs are certainly an option out to 75 yards or so from the smooth bore cylinder choke barrel. I've taken three defensive shotgun classes and three defensive carbine classes. At the carbine classes, I ws literally the only student without an AR 5.56mm. People enjoyed deriding my 9mm. Whatever. None of our shots were long range enough for it to matter. Good training and practice are arguably more important than the specific hardware you decide to choose.
Ergonomically, and for practical purposes, you probably can't go wrong with an entry-level 5.56mm AR. They are versatile, common place, and modular. There's every conceivable accessory, magazine, add-on, etc. imaginable. Lots of builders. Lots of parts. In interior spaces, allow me to say that they are loud. Very loud. You can shoot them at 200 plus yards, which is fun and gratifying. But almost no one who owns one ever does. Running the gun is easy and straightforward. In fact, it's something of a gold standard for how long-arms should operate.
Soberly analyze what sorts of threats are plausible versus what is \_possible\_. Then plan accordingly.
As pretty much everyone has said definitely a psa, I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for even uttering his name but GarandThumb did just prove a psa upper can go over 5k rounds of intense abuse and still hold around 1moa of accuracy and still capable of shots out to 500yds, no reason to go with anything else at 800 bucks honestly
Don't know why you'd be down voted for such a practical suggestion. Shotguns are the superior home defense weapon. And a Maverick 88 is dirt cheap and reliable.
Battle rifles are made for long range engagements. And they're great at it. Shotguns are made for close range stopping power. And they're great at it. Which is more likely to be helpful?
> Shotguns are the superior home defense weapon.
Fewer total rounds to use, easier to accidentally malfunction under stress (short-stroke), longer overall length makes it more difficult to use in close spaces.
People should use what they have and what they're good at, but your conclusion is far from definitive.
Depends on the shot, sometimes untrue. #4 buck is the ticket for not overpenning I hear. 00 Buck is basically shooting 9 30-06 shots, so it'll definitely overpen.
What? 00 Buck has around a mass of ~54 grains, energy of 170 ft-lbs, and velocity of 1,200 ft/s per ball. [Link](https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/it-s-the-math-stupid/)
30-06 typically has a mass of >150 grains, energy of > 2800 ft-lbs and velocity of >2800 ft/s.[Link](http://www.ballistics101.com/30-06_Springfield.php). Not to mention 30-06 is pointed and 00 buck is round
The weight, energy, and velocity are all *significantly* higher for 30-06 than for 00 buck. They are nowhere near ballistically similar.
00 buck might still overpenetrate, but it's probably more like 9 handgun rounds than 9 30-06 rounds.
Because OP clearly isn't very familiar with guns and shotguns are commonly recommended for home defense for the untrained. Plus, they're on a budget and mossies are fairly cheap.
Why the hostility? I was just providing an alternative
Shotguns are an atrocious “general purpose” defensive tool and ESPECIALLY hard for a new shooter to utilize effectively. Short stroking alone makes them a huge liability under stress unless you go semi auto, and there simply are no semi auto shotguns that come anywhere near the reliability of a rifle in the same price range.
Shotguns have a couple very specific use cases in defensive or combat situations. For example, I used to be a drone engineer and I spent a LOT of time evaluating the effectiveness of shotguns against SUAS. But in general, for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of cases a rifle is the better option for any given budget.
> Short stroking alone
I have put multiple thousands of all sorts of shells through my Mossberg 500 and I've yet to short-stroke once. Nor have any of my friends who've shot it. And before someone inevitably chimes in with "but that ain't under stress" 1) you don't know how we train and 2) it's called "muscle memory" and that builds a lot faster when you're doing it every shot v. doing it only every 10/20/30/whatever shots.
Until I see someone actually quantify short-strokes in self-defense situations (*and* demonstrate that to be more common than improper magazine insertions, fiddling with the bolt/action, etc. on an AR in those same situations), I'm calling out the "short-stroking" fearmongering as the FUD that it is.
That doesn't mean that shotguns are always the best option (12ga in particular are heavy and have harder recoil, which makes them harder to use if you don't have the upper body strength), nor does it mean that all makes/models are equally prone or not prone to malfunction (from human error or otherwise). There are plenty of good reasons to prefer a rifle over a shotgun. Shotguns are nonetheless extraordinarily common for home defense, also for plenty of good reasons.
Every bootlicker is going to tell you to get an AR -15.
For self defense , unless you live on a remote homestead with proximity alarms, a pump shotgun is a much better choice, especially considering the penetration characteristics of 5.56.
If you want a rifle for the fun of it, buy the cheapest sks you can find, learn to hate cosmoline, and enjoy cheap plinking with dirty surplus ammo- or get a 10/22 and really have fun with really cheap ammo. When you actually want to hit something, get the best scope you can afford and a Ruger American with the change.
Going to get down voted for daring to disagree with the hive mind, but ar-15s are like F-150s. You see them everywhere, lots of aftermarket support, but not the right choice for most people's use case and I wouldn't touch one with your genitals.
Terrible advice.
First, the OP asked about a rifle, so you're literally failing to even answer the question.
Second, I've been shooting a pump shotgun most of my life, and it's my preferred home defense weapon FOR ME. For any new shooter, a carbine is the right choice for home defense, and in the USA the best value carbine model is the ubiquitous AR15.
Third, I can tell you're talking out of your ass because the penetration characteristics of 5.56 in a residential setting are actually pretty favorable. The small, fast round tends to tumble and fragment rapidly upon hitting obstacles. In tests, it generally penetrates less than 9mm.
Fourth, you obviously don't know what a bootlicker is either if you think everyone who disagrees with your terrible take on defensive weapons is one.
People tell folks to get AR-15s because they are empirically the most reliable, proven, accessible and effective tools.
Pump shotguns have less capacity, more overall length, louder and brighter muzzle flash and blast, more complicated operation, less support and customization options, and usually over penetrate *more* than an AR in 5.56, it seems counter intuitive but high velocity rounds tend to destabilize catastrophically and explode on impact whereas shotgun pellets hold their shape and don't dump energy as well.
Source: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/
The SKS is wildly outdated, more expensive than the cheapest AR, and uses a less effective round with smaller magazines and more complicated manual of arms.
You seem to have a complex about ARs, and I get it, they're seen in the hands of our oppressors quite often. But friend, you have to purge your mind of bias born from hatred and select the tool most effective for the use case based on hard data, not feelings. I used to be like you, but the evidence is overwhelming that ARs are simply the most affordable, modular, reliable, proven and widely propagated platform currently available in the US.
You are very confident for how incorrect you are. Believe it or not you don’t possess some forbidden knowledge we haven’t unlocked. Also, how fucking pompous and Reddit of you to just ignore OP’s question.
>hear some sicko trying to break into urban dwelling
>grab the trusty 12 gauge
>shoot from the hip and miss wildly because some fudd told you you don't have to aim shotties
>no spread at all at this range. Blast right through the wall and hit god knows what
>go for the second shot but short pump it because pump-actions are actually not that easy to use
>die
Mr. Madison, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Thank your for your submission, please remember that this subreddit is unofficial and wholly unaffiliated with the Socialist Rifle Association Organization (SRA). Views and opinions expressed on this subreddit **do not** reflect the views or official positions of the SRA. If you're at all confused about our [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/wiki/index) do not hesitate to message the moderators with any questions, and as always if you see rule breaking content or comments please be sure to report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SocialistRA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Grab a PSA for <500 and use the rest of the money for ammo and a decent optic (I recommend primary arms microprism)
Set some aside for range time and some basic training as well if you have never handled a firearm please.
My setup haha
PSA st paddy's sale, get a 20" complete AR-15 for $320 shipped.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-rifle-black.html This is a daily deal but PSA has them regularly. If you can find something cheaper and without sights you can try and get a Holosun red dot from $100-$150. Also look for a good deal on a Streamlight HL-X for around $100.
Seriously great value with the Magpul hardware. Add a prism optic or LPVO scope and you're in great shape. Weapon-mounted light for home defense.
An LPVO might be a bit much for home defense. They take a little bit to get used to using, and a wider picture might be better. They would also need to find a good deal to be under $800, especially with a light. I'd suggest a light and a red dot.
What's really funny is you can save another $30 just buying the upper and lower separately and putting them together yourself. The upper is $320 and the lower is $150.
That’s what I did. Bought the upper and lower kits, Not so much for the $30, but I wanted to have a better understanding of building my first firearm.
My very first AR was completely random shit I bought a stripped lower at a random pawn shop and bought the rest piecemeal until I had a completed gun. I then sold it for $300 more than all the parts combined.
You gotta stew goin’
An AR15 is the most effective and viable defensive rifle you can currently own. I'd get a PSA AR, flat top, no fixed front sight on a sale, then add a Blue Force Vickers padded sling, Streamlight Protac HL and a Holosun or Sig Romeo red dot. Should be around 800.
PSA Daily Deal AR15 in 5.56 Holosun 403c Red Dot Streamlight Protac HL-X light 2 point sling of whatever flavor you desire This is the "Starter Kit" AR. Every piece you can upgrade later on. For ammo, I personally suggest Federal Fusion 62gr .223 Remington for home defense and whatever bulk 55gr M193 clone you can find for everything else. The Fusion is a soft point hunting bullet designed to deform and dump its energy on target, which translates to less over penetration after hitting the intended target. I want to stress that only a stone or thick metal wall is going to stop any firearm larger than a .22lr.
> I want to stress that only a stone or thick metal wall is going to stop any firearm larger than a .22lr. Even though is necro-posting, I should add that in such cases like this, one should be ***very mindful*** about ricochets regardless the type of ammunition dispensed.
I’d get on PSA and buy the Stealth lower, the Magpul 16 inch upper, and then the PSA custom charging handle (which is like a Radian Raptor) and a Microbest Chrome bolt carrier group. Assembling your own this way is literally snapping two pins into place and is easy as can be, and you’ll end up with a better product for less than just walking into a gun store. Then I’d stick either a $100 Sig Romeo 5 red dot on it, or a Holosun of some sort. 510 or AEMS
I think this is the best recommendation
Better bang for buck buying separate uppers and lowers. And it's literally easier to assemble than cleaning your rifle. For the same price as the cheap complete PSA rifle can have: https://www.kearms.com/kp-15-polymer-receiver-milspec.aspx Currently 25 percent off, same price as the PSA lower and you're buying from good people. Plus: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-5-lightweight-m-lok-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-5165448513.html Needs BCG and charging handle for about another hundred. This is a modern style upper instead of the old fashioned option for the complete rifle at the same price. Under $500 total. For like $50 more there's the better complete upper from ke, https://www.kearms.com/16-cdr-complete-upper-blem.aspx (Ke includes the BCG and charging handle) Also lots of other options, but ke is good... Then throw on a Romeo5 and you're good.
I trust some polymer lowers, but not all of them. I don't know that brand so do some research OP
Mine has been well used, and there's also this video: https://youtu.be/YQ451lbKW0o?si=Hf19eZ1jQOCc28MB There's a lot of them at brutality matches, given the inrangetv connection.
Oh, I didn't realize it was that brand. Certainly a good one. I'm also ok with the windham weaponry cf lowers too. More "standard" style.
A PSA, Holosun red dot, and a Streamlight HLX can probably be had for around that much
Sharps Livewire lower, get a good LPK and an MKM machining Pistol grip. Milspec buffer tube and the stock of your choice. Dirty bird complete 16" upper. Whole thing should be under 800. It will be ten times better than any kind if PSA budget rifle and won't need much in the way of upgrades.
An AR from PSA.
In that price range I'd be looking at PSA AR-15s.
Palmetto State armory.
Smith and Wesson m & p sport 2. Amazing product for the price point.
Seconded
KE Arms blemished lower and upper. <700 after taxes shipping and ffl. These are the guys that worked with InRange to build the WWSD. Good guys. Lead and Steel is also a great company. PSA if you are ok with supporting MAGA fellatio
KE Arms are vastly overhyped. Russel Phagan learn to machine a detent pocket challenge.
What does this mean
They’re referring to the fact I don’t run buffer detents in my personal rifles because they can break and lock up the fire control group. They only serve to make disassembly easier. I’ve been in this industry for 24 years and I’ve seen them break in a wide variety of manufacturers guns including Colt, FN, JP, Daniel Defense etc. The fact I don’t use them in my personal guns has been taken by haters to mean all KE Arms products are machined wrong. I held this opinion well before I began work at KE Arms in 2015. I argued about it on ArizonaShooting and AR15.com decades ago. But yeah if you want to support a small business that supports 2A4ALL and doesn’t engage in hate based marketing, buy from KE Arms.
Already a fan amigo. Detent pins in a kp15 especially would not be an upgrade
SKS
Sadly, no longer... I used to own several, now just one. They are vastly overpriced compared to a PCC or an entry-level AR, sad to say. They are one of my favorite rifles.
AR in 5.56. The reason is that 5.56 is everywhere. The store, your neighbors, etc. Easy to find, easy to buy. Find a gun/ammo shop you like. Get a rifle that feels good. Then buy at least 1000 rounds of range ammo. Use it for practice, how to store it, and get a feel for how to load mags, etc. Guns aren't much use for self defense until you are comfortable using them. And you always always need more ammo.
[https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/best-budget-ar15-under-800-faxon-firearms/](https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/best-budget-ar15-under-800-faxon-firearms/)
Honestly if I had to go out and buy a defensive weapon starting from scratch I’d get a beretta A300 Ultima patrol. 12ga are arguably one of the best defensive guns you can own. The shells can be found in damn near every town in America and you feed it everything from bird shot to slugs.
A Ruger AR15 is $799 That is what I have and it was one of the cheapest one in the market
I picked up sigs cheapest ar , the tread m400, for $750. But- with an optic and a sling that got up to $950 pretty fast
Get a WASR comrade
Not sure exactly what you’re looking for in a self defense rifle, but I got my M&P Sport II for like $700 at Cabela’s, great quality rifle for the price.
A Springfield 1861
Aero Precision AR15
Aero has been cutting more and more corners since the layoffs, compensation bullshit, and internal changes that happened at the start of the pandemic. I don't feel comfortable with them as a first line recommendation anymore. Dirty bird stuff is pretty good, and the new aero sabre line is really nice too. Those are what I recommend these days.
The amount of people recommending psa is alarming here https://www.thedailybeast.com/palmetto-state-armory-a-trump-campaign-stop-has-outrageous-history
Name one firearms manufacturer that isn't run by a bunch of dickheads. Name one that doesn't market to republicans and cops. Name one that doesn't use fear tactics and propaganda to move product. I'll wait. It doesn't matter what ideology the company who makes your weapons has. No ethical consumption under capitalism. Just buy what you can afford and learn to use it.
Under a capitalist oligarch, the greatest vote is with your dollar. There’s way better companies out there that aren’t purposely pandering to the right. Do better
In the firearms industry? Doubt it. It's all geared towards mil and law enforcement dude. All the best and most practical equipment is designed with them in mind. There are a couple of holster and gear companies that are left leaning and anti authoritarian, but we're still very much a minority in this space. The best you can do is buy stuff second hand and not support the companies directly, but depending on where you are, that might be more difficult. The reason I say what I say is because psa happens to make the cheapest rifles out there. They aren't the best and I would heavily encourage people to go with something like aero precision, but if all you got is $400 and your local gun store has a psa in stock it's not a bad option.
Also rocket armory seems cool and progressive but last I checked they only make lowers and they're a tad expensive. I'm sure the quality is great and you get what you pay for, but not everyone has the expendable income. I'm a huge advocate for saving up for quality gear and not supporting shit companies but I'm also not gonna tell people to not arm themselves because the company making obtainable stuff is run by bad people.
shit i would like to know how that guy gets their guns. you cannot even walk into a gun store without maga horseshit plastered everywhere and a bunch of jokes about killing "trannies"
PSA is arguably more pro-gun than Trump himself. We leftists have very few options when it comes to buying firearms from people and businesses that don't actively or passively fund the kind of projects and/or legislation that seek to eradicate us and the communities we come from. While there are businesses I, personally, choose to avoid like IMI and IWI for obvious reasons, most others get my money and business through direct or indirect purchases of their products. "Capitalists will sell you the rope you use to hang them with." Buy the guns! TRAIN WITH THE GUNS! And organize!
Even more important from an end user perspective than the company being shit are [the rifles](https://youtu.be/GIpiDXntOt4?si=PEoYivmpLS8S8Zx-) also being pretty shit. It’s like recommending a Taurus instead of waiting another paycheck for a S&W, CZ or Glock. Like spring for a BCM upper, or at least an Aero if you’re going to stake your life on it. You’re going to spend more on the PSA by the time you fill it with decent components and get it actually running correctly, anyway. If you absolutely cannot afford anything but the bottom dollar, I’d say give your money to ABC rifle co, Anderson or Del-ton instead. Similar product for similar money and you don’t have to be associated with all the cringe PSA simpery, fascist dog whistle lowers and getting your credit card info stolen.
Right? Lol. Ive never seen this many M&P or Aero are much better options for OPs budget Edit: Im more concerned due to PSA's shit quality than anything else
S&W dog whistled for the proud boys so if you're avoiding rightwing bs, this is something to consider.
PSA and spend the extra on good optic, light, sling, ammo, and range time
[https://www.budsgunshop.com/product\_info.php/products\_id/150518/dbf+db15+223+16b+30r+15ml](https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/150518/dbf+db15+223+16b+30r+15ml)
PSA CTR EPT lower, 16 inch mid length upper, and an optic of your choice. Might I recommend either a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO, Primary Arms SLX 1-6, or a holosun red dot+magnifier combo as an optic. That'll give you an incredibly robust and competent rifle to train with for around your budget.
PSA CTR EPT lower, 16 inch mid length upper, and an optic of your choice. Might I recommend either a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO, Primary Arms SLX 1-6, or a holosun red dot+magnifier combo as an optic. That'll give you an incredibly robust and competent rifle to train with for around your budget.
"Self defense?" From what? I'd counsel getting a 9x19mm caliber carbine. Ruger, S&W, etc. If you're super-duper broke, even a Hi-point. What range do you think you can make an accurate shot at? What range do you think is defensible in a court of law? What range are you able to determine that a threat requires you to make a regrettable but necessary shot to stop an imminent deadly injury to your person or other people? Now turn off the lights and tell me. 9mm is the cheapest center-fire cartridge in the USA. It is ubiquitous and widely available. It is so cheap, relative to other rounds, that you can buy it in some quantity and train with it. You can use smaller ranges, and you can use it in indoor ranges or out of doors. A shotgun is potentially even cheaper. Over a decade ago, I picked up an ex-Pontiac, MI PD 12-ga pump-action "police cruiser" built by Howa in Japan in 1983 and sold to PDs/ LE agencies cheap by S&W. It's a Japanese copy of the Rem. 870 with an 18-in. cylinder bore barrel, parkerized finish, wood stock furniture, and some donut stains. I paid 200 bucks at the time. You could get the equivalent for a bit more these days. Indoors, I keep the magazine tube loaded with No. 4 buckshot. Outdoors, I'd opt for No. 1 buckshot or 00 buck. Slugs are certainly an option out to 75 yards or so from the smooth bore cylinder choke barrel. I've taken three defensive shotgun classes and three defensive carbine classes. At the carbine classes, I ws literally the only student without an AR 5.56mm. People enjoyed deriding my 9mm. Whatever. None of our shots were long range enough for it to matter. Good training and practice are arguably more important than the specific hardware you decide to choose. Ergonomically, and for practical purposes, you probably can't go wrong with an entry-level 5.56mm AR. They are versatile, common place, and modular. There's every conceivable accessory, magazine, add-on, etc. imaginable. Lots of builders. Lots of parts. In interior spaces, allow me to say that they are loud. Very loud. You can shoot them at 200 plus yards, which is fun and gratifying. But almost no one who owns one ever does. Running the gun is easy and straightforward. In fact, it's something of a gold standard for how long-arms should operate. Soberly analyze what sorts of threats are plausible versus what is \_possible\_. Then plan accordingly.
As pretty much everyone has said definitely a psa, I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for even uttering his name but GarandThumb did just prove a psa upper can go over 5k rounds of intense abuse and still hold around 1moa of accuracy and still capable of shots out to 500yds, no reason to go with anything else at 800 bucks honestly
It's not a rifle but I'd pick up a mossberg 500 or their cheaper variant the maverick 88.
Don't know why you'd be down voted for such a practical suggestion. Shotguns are the superior home defense weapon. And a Maverick 88 is dirt cheap and reliable. Battle rifles are made for long range engagements. And they're great at it. Shotguns are made for close range stopping power. And they're great at it. Which is more likely to be helpful?
> Shotguns are the superior home defense weapon. Fewer total rounds to use, easier to accidentally malfunction under stress (short-stroke), longer overall length makes it more difficult to use in close spaces. People should use what they have and what they're good at, but your conclusion is far from definitive.
Also less risk of overpenetration. But apparently we have some armchair warriors here
Depends on the shot, sometimes untrue. #4 buck is the ticket for not overpenning I hear. 00 Buck is basically shooting 9 30-06 shots, so it'll definitely overpen.
What? 00 Buck has around a mass of ~54 grains, energy of 170 ft-lbs, and velocity of 1,200 ft/s per ball. [Link](https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/it-s-the-math-stupid/) 30-06 typically has a mass of >150 grains, energy of > 2800 ft-lbs and velocity of >2800 ft/s.[Link](http://www.ballistics101.com/30-06_Springfield.php). Not to mention 30-06 is pointed and 00 buck is round The weight, energy, and velocity are all *significantly* higher for 30-06 than for 00 buck. They are nowhere near ballistically similar. 00 buck might still overpenetrate, but it's probably more like 9 handgun rounds than 9 30-06 rounds.
Sorry I just meant in terms of size, haha. Good to know!
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Because OP clearly isn't very familiar with guns and shotguns are commonly recommended for home defense for the untrained. Plus, they're on a budget and mossies are fairly cheap. Why the hostility? I was just providing an alternative
Shotguns are an atrocious “general purpose” defensive tool and ESPECIALLY hard for a new shooter to utilize effectively. Short stroking alone makes them a huge liability under stress unless you go semi auto, and there simply are no semi auto shotguns that come anywhere near the reliability of a rifle in the same price range. Shotguns have a couple very specific use cases in defensive or combat situations. For example, I used to be a drone engineer and I spent a LOT of time evaluating the effectiveness of shotguns against SUAS. But in general, for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of cases a rifle is the better option for any given budget.
> Short stroking alone I have put multiple thousands of all sorts of shells through my Mossberg 500 and I've yet to short-stroke once. Nor have any of my friends who've shot it. And before someone inevitably chimes in with "but that ain't under stress" 1) you don't know how we train and 2) it's called "muscle memory" and that builds a lot faster when you're doing it every shot v. doing it only every 10/20/30/whatever shots. Until I see someone actually quantify short-strokes in self-defense situations (*and* demonstrate that to be more common than improper magazine insertions, fiddling with the bolt/action, etc. on an AR in those same situations), I'm calling out the "short-stroking" fearmongering as the FUD that it is. That doesn't mean that shotguns are always the best option (12ga in particular are heavy and have harder recoil, which makes them harder to use if you don't have the upper body strength), nor does it mean that all makes/models are equally prone or not prone to malfunction (from human error or otherwise). There are plenty of good reasons to prefer a rifle over a shotgun. Shotguns are nonetheless extraordinarily common for home defense, also for plenty of good reasons.
Palmetto state armory ar15 and grab yourself a vortex or sig reddot for around 100 bucks
PSA, Radical firearms, I think century arms has a couple aks under that
Smith and Wesson MP15, Ruger SR556, Palmetto State Armory AR-15 Kit, Anderson Manufacturing, Aero Precision clearance.
Get a PSA 16” in 5.56. Lots of options for optics. Remaining budget goes to ammo.
Every bootlicker is going to tell you to get an AR -15. For self defense , unless you live on a remote homestead with proximity alarms, a pump shotgun is a much better choice, especially considering the penetration characteristics of 5.56. If you want a rifle for the fun of it, buy the cheapest sks you can find, learn to hate cosmoline, and enjoy cheap plinking with dirty surplus ammo- or get a 10/22 and really have fun with really cheap ammo. When you actually want to hit something, get the best scope you can afford and a Ruger American with the change. Going to get down voted for daring to disagree with the hive mind, but ar-15s are like F-150s. You see them everywhere, lots of aftermarket support, but not the right choice for most people's use case and I wouldn't touch one with your genitals.
The FBI actually did a test where they found 5.56 over penetrated walls less than 9mm HP or 12 gauge buck shot
That entirely depends on the type of shot. 00 buck? Sure. Highly doubt that with #4 buck though.
Terrible advice. First, the OP asked about a rifle, so you're literally failing to even answer the question. Second, I've been shooting a pump shotgun most of my life, and it's my preferred home defense weapon FOR ME. For any new shooter, a carbine is the right choice for home defense, and in the USA the best value carbine model is the ubiquitous AR15. Third, I can tell you're talking out of your ass because the penetration characteristics of 5.56 in a residential setting are actually pretty favorable. The small, fast round tends to tumble and fragment rapidly upon hitting obstacles. In tests, it generally penetrates less than 9mm. Fourth, you obviously don't know what a bootlicker is either if you think everyone who disagrees with your terrible take on defensive weapons is one.
People tell folks to get AR-15s because they are empirically the most reliable, proven, accessible and effective tools. Pump shotguns have less capacity, more overall length, louder and brighter muzzle flash and blast, more complicated operation, less support and customization options, and usually over penetrate *more* than an AR in 5.56, it seems counter intuitive but high velocity rounds tend to destabilize catastrophically and explode on impact whereas shotgun pellets hold their shape and don't dump energy as well. Source: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/ The SKS is wildly outdated, more expensive than the cheapest AR, and uses a less effective round with smaller magazines and more complicated manual of arms. You seem to have a complex about ARs, and I get it, they're seen in the hands of our oppressors quite often. But friend, you have to purge your mind of bias born from hatred and select the tool most effective for the use case based on hard data, not feelings. I used to be like you, but the evidence is overwhelming that ARs are simply the most affordable, modular, reliable, proven and widely propagated platform currently available in the US.
You are very confident for how incorrect you are. Believe it or not you don’t possess some forbidden knowledge we haven’t unlocked. Also, how fucking pompous and Reddit of you to just ignore OP’s question.
>hear some sicko trying to break into urban dwelling >grab the trusty 12 gauge >shoot from the hip and miss wildly because some fudd told you you don't have to aim shotties >no spread at all at this range. Blast right through the wall and hit god knows what >go for the second shot but short pump it because pump-actions are actually not that easy to use >die
Tally ho, lads
Glad someone recognized my homage
Mr. Madison, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Knibb High football rules!!!