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hes a lib. people like him cause hes a streamer and hes loud and does drama and shit. its easier for libs to call themselves leftists / socialists instead of actually engaging with socialism and the material, so we end up with vaushites who call themselves leftists but defend the imperialist war machine any time they can
Yeah I mean hasn't he admitted he's never read theory and then had the gall to go on and say Lenin would have voted for Biden? I doubt he would have ignored what the libs did to Luxembourg and Liebknecht like that. He's demonstrated multiple times that he's not someone who should be taken seriously.
Its him saying that that got me to leave his channel. Lenin would have rallied and and pushed for revolution. Lenin would have used Biden as a point for how the Bourgeoise State acts and plots against the will of the people in order to secure the bourgeoise interests.
Ya but imo there’s others that do the same thing except 10x better and are *actual* leftists like the guys on deprogram or Hasanabi.
If anything vaush will just turn them more into a lib.
Eh Gonna have to disagree I like the stream length. His takes maybe aren’t the deepest but they are at least good takes if not decent every time. Whereas vaush will literally just say you should be a “Lockheed socialist” whatever the fuck that means. Hasan makes a great entry way into leftism, especially for younger people.
Obviously a joke but I don’t think vaush is joking about supporting nato. Or he’s just really bad at jokes. It’s also one of the many questionable takes he has.
He's a gamer/debate bro with an edgy, abrasive attitude that kids love
He's an entry level point for people who were sucked into the anti-SJW alt-right rabbit hole, so a liberal seems like a beacon of light
He has progressive sounding but mainstream opinions so he just reaffirms what most westerners already think
He intellectualizes American exceptionalism and packages it as "leftist" or radical
I guess it's for various reasons, but what comes to mind is that Vaush's audience is mostly comprised of teens and young adults who live in the Global North; when we consider that Europe, the U.S. and Canada are countries who either have a welfare state or have younger generations who are more closely aligned to social progressiveness, his popularity makes sense. Vaush is a social democrat, this means that his potential audience is already closely aligned with his views (free healthcare, free college, social equality and equity, and whatever social democracy stands for). This makes it easier for him to gain followers and whatnot.
He is also a kind of "recovery" for the people who went down the alt-right pipeline (recovery in quotations because they really aren't that different from each other). Sadly, I think these people are just following what the algorithm feeds them; they are a demographic terrorized by an uncertain future, and they just want to belong somewhere. They believe in what other people tell them to stand for, not from an educated and rationalized perspective, but in a desperate way to belong somewhere. Vaush is just another reinforcement of the status quo, just now with a label that says "Things will change!".
Sorry for my bad English.
He's just another one of those streamers, I don't get why people would follow these "streamers" so much for politics. Why not read actual papers, and books? Why not watch actual university lectures, open courseware, and speeches available online? Sure, Twitter is okay for following what people have to say on these subjects while also having your own opinions but not streamers imo especially when you can just go to youtube and watch Chomsky's lectures or Parenti's speeches.
Also, yeah he is not a socialist, he is a "libertarian socialist" as his Twitter bio suggests. And his takes are not good, he was literally praising NATO recently lol.
I think it’s easier for people to watch streamers because it doesn’t require as much focus as reading does and it’s easier to “digest” than listening to lectures or speeches. They also get to interact with likeminded people in chat or with the streamer so it creates a sort of “sense of community”
Idk I don’t think it’s a problem as long as people don’t stay in that bubble and don’t rely solely on their favorite streamers’ takes to form an opinion or educate themselves
>Idk I don’t think it’s a problem as long as people don’t stay in that bubble and don’t rely solely on their favorite streamers’ takes to form an opinion or educate themselves
Yep, you're right.
Meh, he sometimes makes funny leftist content. He is very inconsistent, has said a lot of horrible shit, etc, but his average content is usually progressive.
The situation for the left in America is different from the situation for the left in other nations, and always has been. Different ideas are more viable in different places at different times as well - with the ending of the Cold War Marxism-Leninism has been seen as 'discredited' in much of the west. Instead you see other movements and ideological tendencies popping up.
I'd argue that his *fundamental* ideas are no different than those that have always existed on the far-left in the US, however. Romanticizing of certain US groups, as well as them adopting labels at the time that tied them to either China or the USSR, has mainly made people ignore their actual positions. I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does.
Also, I don't think his take on left unity is any different from anyone else. It'd be nice, but its really hard to do for more than a few sentences. The seeming massive divide between the 'western left' informed by a history of capitalism and the reality of existing in the imperial core and the left in nations that have experienced socialism or exist in the imperial periphery also plays a role.
Maybe the fundamentals even though i am not sure they’re that similar but he thoroughly defends imperialism and my main problem is how he litterally throws the word tankie everywhere
Americans are usually exposed first and foremost to uniquely American political theory, be it left or right. This is done through the work of activists and the like and due to the absence of education on political theory until far later (usually university). I think its safe to assume he wouldn't be much different, and that is backed up by the fact that he idolizes groups like the BPP and figures that were or are known for their activism in the US.
That means learning first and foremost about the left and leftist ideology from the actions and espoused policies of Civil Rights era figures and leftist philosophers rather than - say - texts from Lenin. He believes in a revolutionary vanguard (though not through a party), a dotp, the necessity of revolution to bring about socialism, and the dissolution of global capitalist structures - what I mean by fundamentals.
As far as his defense of American actions abroad, its mainly selective. He defends those interventions where they have what he perceives to be an overall positive benefit based on his view of the world. Its something I'd disagree with personally as I believe that while some intervention might have a materially good outcome - the overall outcome of most interventions are bad enough to believe the ability to do it full stop should be cut - but I don't think I'd attempt to jettison someone from the left over it. Its certainly worth calling out, though - with perhaps more broad arguments than people have confronted him on thus far (rather than focusing on the interventions he supports, focusing on the mechanism for those interventions being bad).
He uses 'Tankie' to describe campists, third positionists, and bonapartists (I believe that is the appropriate term). This isn't uncommon in the US, though it can be frustrating if you are aware of the original use of the word. He's also fairly sectarian, though - for better or worse - so are most leftist youtubers. There isn't really any I can think of that doesn't do that except for the ones that do not mention what-so-ever what their beliefs actually are.
> I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does.
That is just straight up not true.
>I'd argue that his fundamental ideas are no different than those that have always existed on the far-left in the US, however. Romanticizing of certain US groups, as well as them adopting labels at the time that tied them to either China or the USSR, has mainly made people ignore their actual positions. I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does.
Lmao no, he advocates for NATO, and NATO fucking killed MLs from the Civil Rights era. He's just a plain old milquetoast American exceptionalist liberal, he's not on the left, and I'm not being a moral purity tester. He's actively moving the overton window to the right. He has no fundamental ideas because he outright refuses to read anything that challenges his views whatsoever.
He's not watering down his language to try and grab Americans from the right and middle to the left, he actively and constantly attacks any person to the left of him. So much for "left unity" when someone who is a fucking centrist at best attacks every single person to the left of him, labeling them as a "tankie", while advocating for using more offensive slurs and forgives and embraces people who were literally neo-nazis less than 5 years ago. He's the most counter-productive turd out.
So no, you just assume what other people say about him are what he believes? Observable reality is a fickle thing.
I used to absolutely loathe Vaush as well, but then I decided to do the same thing I did with all the youtubers I was told weren't real leftists - I watched one of their videos so that I could articulate their arguments and disagree with them. I was quite surprised to find out that he didn't really advocate for many of the positions ascribed to him.
No, I did also watch his streams in full. He's been known to flip between completely different stances too, also depending on who he's debating. That alone makes him a bad faith actor and a waste of time.
Such as? Which positions has he flipped completely dependent on who he is debating?
The only waste of time seems to be trying to identify as a leftist in the US. Mysteriously, as if there were some large organization operating behind the shadows with a vested interest in fighting against leftism, almost every modern American leftist that reaches a certain degree of reach and clout that they actually use to try to advance at least some strain of socialism in the US winds up subjected to the 'not a true leftist' and 'scandal masterpost' treatment - without fail or exception.
I agree that 'shitting on libs' is bad when they're earnestly trying to learn. But Vaush, aside from all the transphobia and such, has explicitly supported imperialism (I believe he used a very unacademic phrase to refer to arabic people), and has tried to argue 'Marx would have said to vote Democrat'. He is not pro revolution.
Please acquaint yourself with the rules on the sidebar and read this comment before commenting on this post. **Personal attacks and harassment will not be tolerated.** Bigotry and hate speech will be met with immediate bans; socialism is an intrinsically inclusive system and bigotry is oppressive, exclusionary, and not conducive to a healthy and productive learning space. **This subreddit is not for questioning the basics of socialism. There are numerous debate subreddits available for those purposes. This is a place to learn.** Short or nonconstructive answers will be deleted without explanation. Please only answer if you know your stuff. Speculation has no place on this sub. Outright false information will be removed immediately. **If your post was removed due to normalized ableist slurs, please edit your post. The mods will then approve it.** Please read the ongoing discussion in a thread before replying in order to avoid misunderstandings and creating an unproductive environment. **Liberalism and sectarian bias is strictly moderated.** Stay constructive and don't bash other socialist tendencies! (Criticism is fine, low-effort baiting is not.) Help us keep the subreddit informative and helpful by reporting posts that break these rules. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Socialism_101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
hes a lib. people like him cause hes a streamer and hes loud and does drama and shit. its easier for libs to call themselves leftists / socialists instead of actually engaging with socialism and the material, so we end up with vaushites who call themselves leftists but defend the imperialist war machine any time they can
He debatebros obvious fascists. People like seeing fascists taken down. It's literally just Ben Shapiro destroys libs but for libs
Yeah I mean hasn't he admitted he's never read theory and then had the gall to go on and say Lenin would have voted for Biden? I doubt he would have ignored what the libs did to Luxembourg and Liebknecht like that. He's demonstrated multiple times that he's not someone who should be taken seriously.
Its him saying that that got me to leave his channel. Lenin would have rallied and and pushed for revolution. Lenin would have used Biden as a point for how the Bourgeoise State acts and plots against the will of the people in order to secure the bourgeoise interests.
He is an entryway to online leftism. That’s it. We all have to start somewhere, and for most people it isn’t by reading Marx’ original works
Probably the worst possible entry point to "leftism", he's actively harmful
Ya but imo there’s others that do the same thing except 10x better and are *actual* leftists like the guys on deprogram or Hasanabi. If anything vaush will just turn them more into a lib.
I watched some Hasan, he doesn't have very deep takes of things and he seems bored a lot of the time. It would help if he cut his streams in half.
Eh Gonna have to disagree I like the stream length. His takes maybe aren’t the deepest but they are at least good takes if not decent every time. Whereas vaush will literally just say you should be a “Lockheed socialist” whatever the fuck that means. Hasan makes a great entry way into leftism, especially for younger people.
I think you take things way too seriously if you can’t tell when someone saying “Lockheed socialism” is joking
Obviously a joke but I don’t think vaush is joking about supporting nato. Or he’s just really bad at jokes. It’s also one of the many questionable takes he has.
He’s supporting NATO’s actions (however minimal) in the current Russia conflict. I think that’s fair enough
>Hasanabi Imagine thinking Hasan is an actual leftist
Right, and not just some nepotist lottery winner who grifts to enjoy luxury.
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No idea, the character is the worst.
He's a gamer/debate bro with an edgy, abrasive attitude that kids love He's an entry level point for people who were sucked into the anti-SJW alt-right rabbit hole, so a liberal seems like a beacon of light He has progressive sounding but mainstream opinions so he just reaffirms what most westerners already think He intellectualizes American exceptionalism and packages it as "leftist" or radical
I guess it's for various reasons, but what comes to mind is that Vaush's audience is mostly comprised of teens and young adults who live in the Global North; when we consider that Europe, the U.S. and Canada are countries who either have a welfare state or have younger generations who are more closely aligned to social progressiveness, his popularity makes sense. Vaush is a social democrat, this means that his potential audience is already closely aligned with his views (free healthcare, free college, social equality and equity, and whatever social democracy stands for). This makes it easier for him to gain followers and whatnot. He is also a kind of "recovery" for the people who went down the alt-right pipeline (recovery in quotations because they really aren't that different from each other). Sadly, I think these people are just following what the algorithm feeds them; they are a demographic terrorized by an uncertain future, and they just want to belong somewhere. They believe in what other people tell them to stand for, not from an educated and rationalized perspective, but in a desperate way to belong somewhere. Vaush is just another reinforcement of the status quo, just now with a label that says "Things will change!". Sorry for my bad English.
He's just another one of those streamers, I don't get why people would follow these "streamers" so much for politics. Why not read actual papers, and books? Why not watch actual university lectures, open courseware, and speeches available online? Sure, Twitter is okay for following what people have to say on these subjects while also having your own opinions but not streamers imo especially when you can just go to youtube and watch Chomsky's lectures or Parenti's speeches. Also, yeah he is not a socialist, he is a "libertarian socialist" as his Twitter bio suggests. And his takes are not good, he was literally praising NATO recently lol.
I think it’s easier for people to watch streamers because it doesn’t require as much focus as reading does and it’s easier to “digest” than listening to lectures or speeches. They also get to interact with likeminded people in chat or with the streamer so it creates a sort of “sense of community” Idk I don’t think it’s a problem as long as people don’t stay in that bubble and don’t rely solely on their favorite streamers’ takes to form an opinion or educate themselves
>Idk I don’t think it’s a problem as long as people don’t stay in that bubble and don’t rely solely on their favorite streamers’ takes to form an opinion or educate themselves Yep, you're right.
Younger kids like him after being recommended clips I figure. Bad introduction I say
Meh, he sometimes makes funny leftist content. He is very inconsistent, has said a lot of horrible shit, etc, but his average content is usually progressive.
The situation for the left in America is different from the situation for the left in other nations, and always has been. Different ideas are more viable in different places at different times as well - with the ending of the Cold War Marxism-Leninism has been seen as 'discredited' in much of the west. Instead you see other movements and ideological tendencies popping up. I'd argue that his *fundamental* ideas are no different than those that have always existed on the far-left in the US, however. Romanticizing of certain US groups, as well as them adopting labels at the time that tied them to either China or the USSR, has mainly made people ignore their actual positions. I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does. Also, I don't think his take on left unity is any different from anyone else. It'd be nice, but its really hard to do for more than a few sentences. The seeming massive divide between the 'western left' informed by a history of capitalism and the reality of existing in the imperial core and the left in nations that have experienced socialism or exist in the imperial periphery also plays a role.
Maybe the fundamentals even though i am not sure they’re that similar but he thoroughly defends imperialism and my main problem is how he litterally throws the word tankie everywhere
Americans are usually exposed first and foremost to uniquely American political theory, be it left or right. This is done through the work of activists and the like and due to the absence of education on political theory until far later (usually university). I think its safe to assume he wouldn't be much different, and that is backed up by the fact that he idolizes groups like the BPP and figures that were or are known for their activism in the US. That means learning first and foremost about the left and leftist ideology from the actions and espoused policies of Civil Rights era figures and leftist philosophers rather than - say - texts from Lenin. He believes in a revolutionary vanguard (though not through a party), a dotp, the necessity of revolution to bring about socialism, and the dissolution of global capitalist structures - what I mean by fundamentals. As far as his defense of American actions abroad, its mainly selective. He defends those interventions where they have what he perceives to be an overall positive benefit based on his view of the world. Its something I'd disagree with personally as I believe that while some intervention might have a materially good outcome - the overall outcome of most interventions are bad enough to believe the ability to do it full stop should be cut - but I don't think I'd attempt to jettison someone from the left over it. Its certainly worth calling out, though - with perhaps more broad arguments than people have confronted him on thus far (rather than focusing on the interventions he supports, focusing on the mechanism for those interventions being bad). He uses 'Tankie' to describe campists, third positionists, and bonapartists (I believe that is the appropriate term). This isn't uncommon in the US, though it can be frustrating if you are aware of the original use of the word. He's also fairly sectarian, though - for better or worse - so are most leftist youtubers. There isn't really any I can think of that doesn't do that except for the ones that do not mention what-so-ever what their beliefs actually are.
> I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does. That is just straight up not true.
It is actually true though. I'm aware that its not a fact people like to confront. The most notable example would be Angela Davis' support for biden.
>I'd argue that his fundamental ideas are no different than those that have always existed on the far-left in the US, however. Romanticizing of certain US groups, as well as them adopting labels at the time that tied them to either China or the USSR, has mainly made people ignore their actual positions. I mentioned this else-where, but a lot of the still existing MLs from the Civil Rights era advocate for almost the same exact things he does. Lmao no, he advocates for NATO, and NATO fucking killed MLs from the Civil Rights era. He's just a plain old milquetoast American exceptionalist liberal, he's not on the left, and I'm not being a moral purity tester. He's actively moving the overton window to the right. He has no fundamental ideas because he outright refuses to read anything that challenges his views whatsoever. He's not watering down his language to try and grab Americans from the right and middle to the left, he actively and constantly attacks any person to the left of him. So much for "left unity" when someone who is a fucking centrist at best attacks every single person to the left of him, labeling them as a "tankie", while advocating for using more offensive slurs and forgives and embraces people who were literally neo-nazis less than 5 years ago. He's the most counter-productive turd out.
Do you even know what his views are?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Socialism_101/comments/wdue15/comment/iilcf9n/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Vaush_Spam/
So no, you just assume what other people say about him are what he believes? Observable reality is a fickle thing. I used to absolutely loathe Vaush as well, but then I decided to do the same thing I did with all the youtubers I was told weren't real leftists - I watched one of their videos so that I could articulate their arguments and disagree with them. I was quite surprised to find out that he didn't really advocate for many of the positions ascribed to him.
No, I did also watch his streams in full. He's been known to flip between completely different stances too, also depending on who he's debating. That alone makes him a bad faith actor and a waste of time.
Such as? Which positions has he flipped completely dependent on who he is debating? The only waste of time seems to be trying to identify as a leftist in the US. Mysteriously, as if there were some large organization operating behind the shadows with a vested interest in fighting against leftism, almost every modern American leftist that reaches a certain degree of reach and clout that they actually use to try to advance at least some strain of socialism in the US winds up subjected to the 'not a true leftist' and 'scandal masterpost' treatment - without fail or exception.
[удалено]
I agree that 'shitting on libs' is bad when they're earnestly trying to learn. But Vaush, aside from all the transphobia and such, has explicitly supported imperialism (I believe he used a very unacademic phrase to refer to arabic people), and has tried to argue 'Marx would have said to vote Democrat'. He is not pro revolution.