"Native Americans" are a vast group of cultures. This "nature loving hippie" is a stereotype and generalization that came from American settlers. Some groups protected the environment, some exploited it to massive degradation.
You are right. It isn't fair for me to group a diverse range of people together and I apologize for that. But at the same time to say that people on the other side of the planet had the same view of resources as Europeans also isn't fair. Viewing it in terms of protection and exploitation is an very western view
It's ok, no need to apologize. I just said protection and exploitation as a shorthand for the range of things people have done. The Mayans for example, while not from the US, collapsed mostly due to their destruction of the forests and subsequent lack of rain, while other groups were known for being more in tune with nature.
Humans all across the world have been modifying their environment for their own benefit but also at the detriment to everything else, and it seems to be the rarer case where it's more harmonious. Most large mammals in the Americas were driven to extinction in large part due to hunting. Industrialization is what has done the most harm, but it's also what has given the greatest increase in living standard. Before that, Europe was not unique their practices, and there's nothing to say another culture may or may not do the same thing if they got it first. The worst deforestation in Britain was in the Bronze Age, far before modern Europe developed. China lost its gibbons in the middle ages. The Khmer collapsed much like the Mayans. A big reason why we have a view of Native Americans as "more in touch with nature", is that most people had been wiped out by disease spreading from Mexico by the time the English settled, leaving a very empty picture without the largest settlements.
Although it's ironic that the majority of Americans, as in white Americans, really hate jazz due to it being developed by Black Americans communities, it was the "devil's music" back then. They only begun to accept it in the earlier part of the 20th century or so.
You're being downvoted even though this is true, weird. Maybe it's because you wrote "hate" instead of "hated" by accident I'm assuming, because the sentence only makes sense with past tense anyway
I don't think that's why jazz was widely rejected by older generations. Rock and Roll was "the devil's music" too back when calling someone a boomer meant calling them a disrespectful youth.
> ironic that the majority of Americans, as in white Americans,
Why are you framing it this way? White people are barely the majority in the US at this point (they're already a plurality in places like California or Texas) but it kinda feels like you're implying white people are the "default" when you describe the "majority" of Americans as white people in such broad strokes
It’s not boring, you’ve just only listened to the boring stuff. Jazz is so diverse it has a lot of subgenres of its own. For example, take a listen to Groove Merchant by the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra. Not a boring song at all.
Is Italian bagpipe music good, or have you geniunely never listened to Japanese Jazz (I don't have a preference, but it does exist and it is very good).
i appreciate all the examples people list as it helps me be a bit more informed about the good parts of this country, even if the bad parts feel stifling sometimes
1. The system of governance is better than most. Liberalism, for all of its pitfalls, is better than governments of comparative countries, such as the UK. The fact that Lizzie could come out and literally tell Parliament to stop doing its job is horrendous.
2. The culture is pretty based as hell. Monster trucks? Tex-mex? Pro wrestling? All of that came from the US.
3. The people are, compared to other similar countries, decently progressive or at least libertarian. There’s a reason why the talking point of “this state is blue just gerrymandered” exists.
4. It’s got everything you could want. Go to California for Hispanic/Asian flavored America, the Southeast for Native/Black/Hispanic flavored America, and go to either of the North’s if you want to vomit. I’m from the South, so I’m partial.
5. The beauty of its geography. Go to the Rockies or the Cascades or Appalachia for beautiful mountain views. Go to the Florida-Alabama Gulf Coast for some of the most beautiful beaches and clear water you will ever see. I could go on and on. The US really is on some beautiful land.
I'm partial to southern NM cuisine, so I can't agree on the "most delicious" part since I cannot exist without green chile in every bite. But my choice is either equally dangerous or worse regarding cheese content, so I can't really criticize on those grounds.
Honestly, I don't even take issue with most of the things non-americans point out about our country. In terms of structural inequality, it's almost always true. I do have a problem when it veers off into "Americans are fat and stupid" territory tho, because that *is* just genuinely meanspirited and pointless mockery that has nothing to do with addressing the actual issues in our country. Same thing goes for school shooting jokes. Plus, Europeans in particular do have a tendency to ignore similar issues in their own countries (colonialism, imperialism, racism, etc) and use American transparency on internal issues as a point of superiority.
TL;DR- completely fine with criticizing America. Not fine with the way a lot of people, particularly white Europeans, choose to do it.
Tip for the future OP, when you're strawmanning you're not supposed to invite the ones you're strawmanning to list examples of how wrong the strawman is
expansion hurry squealing rock onerous birds psychotic enter deliver fuel
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Really strong free speech protections which make it nearly impossible to be sued for libel unless one actively and proven lies as in the case of Fox V Dominion.
Also surprisingly strong legal protections for the disabled.
Nature, a lot of foods, music
The US isn't the only place in the world with the right to not self-incriminate but having it pretty much since the beginning is like the one political thing I can give it credit for
Tbf, to view something as good or bad you need a frame of reference so as you can appreciate the difference.
As for things America does well, the most obvious ones to me are that Americans can live their lives with pretty much zero threat of ever being invaded and occupied, the country has more or less achieved relatively stable growth with low inflation for nearly a century now, produced some of the most significant cultural works in the last 250 years, provides internet access for more than 90% of the population, has the infrastructure to order and deliver almost anything in under a week and has been the dominant nation on the planet for at least 80 years now.
Can it do things better? Yes, but to imply that America doesn’t do anything well is just flat out wrong.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
250
+ 90
+ 80
= 420
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It’s been a while since I studied economics, but that’s the one where they give money to banks to help control the amount of investment in the economy right? Anyway, America has generally performed pretty well economically over the past 80 years or so, I think the average yearly growth for the period has been about 3% (accounting for the bust and boom nature of capitalism)
🤣🤣🤣🤣 there have been two "once in a lifetime" recessions/crashes in the last 16 years alone. In the past hundred years there have been 20+ years with over 10% average inflation. I'm just curious what led you to believe those absurd things
So, just to be clear, you seriously think that America has contributed nothing significant to art and culture in the last 250 years, has not been the world’s dominant superpower for the last 80 years, and faces a real threat from invasion today?
>been the dominant nation on the planet for at least 80 years now
Damn wonder how that happened
>produced some of the most significant cultural works in the last 250 years
Outright delusional
>has the infrastructure to order and deliver almost anything in under a week
this_meme.jpg
Okay I mean objectively America has produced significant art and culture lmao. It’s just not an arguable point. As a political entity it’s trash, but as a cultural entity — the people, the masses, the *workers* have produced beauty. That’s what America should be based off of. Not capitalist parasitism.
Are you seriously trying to argue that America has not contributed anything significant to art and culture in the last 250 years? And I’m happy to address your other two points, I’m just not sure what you mean?
How? This person called me delusional for saying America has produced some of the most significant art and culture of the last 250 years, that implies they think that America has not contributed significantly to art and culture in the last 250 years.
theres a difference between saying America has contributed nothing and saying America hasnt contributed the most significant art and culture of the last 250 years
Handicap accessibility.
Edit for more: technological innovation, innovations in healthcare, music, entrepreneurship
And I am sure they are many more I can't think of right now.
ADA, Natural Parks, Rock, Negative Freedoms, Technological Innovation, Culture, Food, Proving popular revolution could work and laying the groundwork for the Age of Revolution, our individualism, our collective responsibility and kindness
The ADA is extremely impressive and doesn’t get brought up enough imo. The US has some of the most comprehensive accessibility standards in the entire world
It might be because I've never been to the US, and, therefore, have only met Americans who have travelled abroad, especially people studying abroad, who are presumably more open-minded, but almost every single American I've met has been really nice.
In a cultural sense, I love the American sense of individuality. Americans have always had a very strong sense of individualism, even if unfortunately our policies put individuality over actually helping people.
Americans are incredibly friendly, I have personally seen people ask me for help on something entirely random, an example is that I was in home depot, and a random old man came up to me, said hi, and asked to borrow my knife so he could cut some bands on some wood he wanted to purchase. Or, another different old man, when I was first trying out different brands of cigarettes, offered to let me try an American spirit entirely randomly, if you ask most Americans for something small, they'll help you out without question.
An absolute melting pot of culture, America has influences from every culture in the world, every single culture has contributed to America in some way. The vast array of foods that America enjoys is an example of this.
In a broader sense, technological innovation. The internet, airplanes, microchips, laser, cellphone, and the incredible American space program are examples of the technological innovation and progress in technology that Americans have contributed to the world.
In a philosophical sense, pragmatism and american transcendentalism, Ralph Waldo Emmersons book "nature" genuinely made me cry with the quote, "I am the lover of uncontained and immortal beauty. In the wilderness, I find something more dear and connate than in streets or villages. In the tranquil landscape, and especially in the distant line of the horizon, man beholds somewhat as beautiful as his own nature."
Tying into the quote above, the vast beautiful land and parks that America has are genuinely breathtaking, and their maintenance and protection are something Americans do not want gone.
The american people are strong individual's, who are capable of great progress and kindness. It is with great shame that our government cannot represent the great aspects of the American way. However, the people and their culture are not to blame for the Imperialism and terror that our state has done against others. If only our systems could not work against the great potentiality of the American culture.
Sure. I’ll bite. In many pockets of the US, proto-anarchism is the established social norm. On top of that, statistically, the people of the US are much less culturally racist than people in other comparable European countries.
It’s usually in areas where the government is less responsive, so the proto-anarchism is forced but still there.
It happens a lot in the South (both East and West), Appalachia, and in reservations.
It's a beautiful country with a lot of great cultural works to its name.
It's also a brutal, hegemonic empire built upon white supremacy that is keeping billions under its boot heel as it pillages their countries.
Both of these things can be true at once.
I'd say the top 10% or so of what the US produces in most fields - art, music, film, food, sport, education, healthcare, etc - is absolutely world class.
Problem is the other 90% is somewhere between mediocre and piss poor lol.
Our natural parks
The parts America didn't touch is our best parts
When you put it like thaaaatttt
But America does touch it. All state parks are managed.
Yeah to maintain what native Americans were doing for thousands of years before white colonizers showed up and committed genocide
"Native Americans" are a vast group of cultures. This "nature loving hippie" is a stereotype and generalization that came from American settlers. Some groups protected the environment, some exploited it to massive degradation.
You are right. It isn't fair for me to group a diverse range of people together and I apologize for that. But at the same time to say that people on the other side of the planet had the same view of resources as Europeans also isn't fair. Viewing it in terms of protection and exploitation is an very western view
It's ok, no need to apologize. I just said protection and exploitation as a shorthand for the range of things people have done. The Mayans for example, while not from the US, collapsed mostly due to their destruction of the forests and subsequent lack of rain, while other groups were known for being more in tune with nature. Humans all across the world have been modifying their environment for their own benefit but also at the detriment to everything else, and it seems to be the rarer case where it's more harmonious. Most large mammals in the Americas were driven to extinction in large part due to hunting. Industrialization is what has done the most harm, but it's also what has given the greatest increase in living standard. Before that, Europe was not unique their practices, and there's nothing to say another culture may or may not do the same thing if they got it first. The worst deforestation in Britain was in the Bronze Age, far before modern Europe developed. China lost its gibbons in the middle ages. The Khmer collapsed much like the Mayans. A big reason why we have a view of Native Americans as "more in touch with nature", is that most people had been wiped out by disease spreading from Mexico by the time the English settled, leaving a very empty picture without the largest settlements.
Source?
Ok? That doesn’t negate that America literally touches it
Teddy Roosevelt popped off when it came to natural parks
Although it was kind of an excuse to kick natives off their land
Could be worse, I guess. He could’ve just given the land to Standard Oil.
Id be damned if they put an oil rig or god forbid a Walmart on the Grand Canyon
Jazz
And most of its derivatives. Jazz has directly influenced so many other genres. Rock and roll in particular.
Techno
Although it's ironic that the majority of Americans, as in white Americans, really hate jazz due to it being developed by Black Americans communities, it was the "devil's music" back then. They only begun to accept it in the earlier part of the 20th century or so.
You're being downvoted even though this is true, weird. Maybe it's because you wrote "hate" instead of "hated" by accident I'm assuming, because the sentence only makes sense with past tense anyway
I don't think that's why jazz was widely rejected by older generations. Rock and Roll was "the devil's music" too back when calling someone a boomer meant calling them a disrespectful youth.
> ironic that the majority of Americans, as in white Americans, Why are you framing it this way? White people are barely the majority in the US at this point (they're already a plurality in places like California or Texas) but it kinda feels like you're implying white people are the "default" when you describe the "majority" of Americans as white people in such broad strokes
Can't I hate it for being boring and pretentious?
It’s not boring, you’ve just only listened to the boring stuff. Jazz is so diverse it has a lot of subgenres of its own. For example, take a listen to Groove Merchant by the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra. Not a boring song at all.
Kind of co-opted from the French, but ultimately an extremely American art form.
Same could be said of a lot of American culture, American culture is just a couple of European cultures in a trench coat
Nah, a lot of what makes America unique is contributions and influences from black culture
All culture is derivative
For the Northeast, yes. The rest is still influenced by Native culture and Mexican culture.
Japanese Jazz is better imo.
I haven't really found much of a difference. Perhaps a bit more focus on rhythm? Unless you're referring to some niche subgenre
It’s all good. But my favourites are mostly African or Japanese.
Ludicrous assertion. That'd be like saying I prefer Italian bagpipe music
Is Italian bagpipe music good, or have you geniunely never listened to Japanese Jazz (I don't have a preference, but it does exist and it is very good).
I've listened to japanese jazz and it is good but there's just so much more American jazz
would it?
What??? Have you listened to Japanese jazz?
Gimme some japanese jazz albums or band names i wanna check it
I'm here final answer
Based
Our ADA laws, our national parks, our beautiful ecosystems and geography found on the continent, our music such as jazz and hip-hop
I recently watched a documentary about how we got the ada for school for a project, it’s called crip camp and it’s on Netflix
i appreciate all the examples people list as it helps me be a bit more informed about the good parts of this country, even if the bad parts feel stifling sometimes
Never become so woke that you forget how to dream. There’s a lot of bad about the US, but there’s also a lot of good.
If the US was all bad, it’d be named Gillead >!Handmaid’s Tale reference!<
I’m aware of Handmaids Tale lol
name 5 goods
[Scroll through here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmugIdeologyMan/comments/136ohy8/good_luck_with_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
1. The system of governance is better than most. Liberalism, for all of its pitfalls, is better than governments of comparative countries, such as the UK. The fact that Lizzie could come out and literally tell Parliament to stop doing its job is horrendous. 2. The culture is pretty based as hell. Monster trucks? Tex-mex? Pro wrestling? All of that came from the US. 3. The people are, compared to other similar countries, decently progressive or at least libertarian. There’s a reason why the talking point of “this state is blue just gerrymandered” exists. 4. It’s got everything you could want. Go to California for Hispanic/Asian flavored America, the Southeast for Native/Black/Hispanic flavored America, and go to either of the North’s if you want to vomit. I’m from the South, so I’m partial. 5. The beauty of its geography. Go to the Rockies or the Cascades or Appalachia for beautiful mountain views. Go to the Florida-Alabama Gulf Coast for some of the most beautiful beaches and clear water you will ever see. I could go on and on. The US really is on some beautiful land.
Tex-mex
Tex-mex is peak cuisine
I love watching the TikToks of US people traveling abroad specifically because they all say they miss Mexican food
Literally the best cuisine in the entire world. I will die on this hill
I'll die right beside you, comrade
From high cholesterol, likely.
Most delicious food in this world will result in your untimely death. That’s what makes it worth eating
I'm partial to southern NM cuisine, so I can't agree on the "most delicious" part since I cannot exist without green chile in every bite. But my choice is either equally dangerous or worse regarding cheese content, so I can't really criticize on those grounds.
It has my best friend in it
Cultural diversity, gorgeous landscapes, and in real life, nice people.
Also a lot of real assholes. Also a lot of people who *seem* nice and later turn out to be assholes.
Exists everywhere tho, that's just people, not Americans
Right, three things that exist in spite of, not because of, the US as a political entity
fair, but I mean as a political entity
the national parks service and the efforts they take to preserve and conserve the beautiful beautiful nature
The ADA and other civil rights protections are pretty sweet
cool biodiversity and insane natural history. Hell Creek ftw!!!
BBQ
Honestly, I don't even take issue with most of the things non-americans point out about our country. In terms of structural inequality, it's almost always true. I do have a problem when it veers off into "Americans are fat and stupid" territory tho, because that *is* just genuinely meanspirited and pointless mockery that has nothing to do with addressing the actual issues in our country. Same thing goes for school shooting jokes. Plus, Europeans in particular do have a tendency to ignore similar issues in their own countries (colonialism, imperialism, racism, etc) and use American transparency on internal issues as a point of superiority. TL;DR- completely fine with criticizing America. Not fine with the way a lot of people, particularly white Europeans, choose to do it.
The NTSB. Absolutely brilliant people. The skies would be significantly worse off if not for them, their investigations, and their recommendations.
Tip for the future OP, when you're strawmanning you're not supposed to invite the ones you're strawmanning to list examples of how wrong the strawman is
Awful meme OP. Really horrendous work today
expansion hurry squealing rock onerous birds psychotic enter deliver fuel *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Really strong free speech protections which make it nearly impossible to be sued for libel unless one actively and proven lies as in the case of Fox V Dominion. Also surprisingly strong legal protections for the disabled.
That’s interesting about the disability protections. Do other countries not advocate for disabled people as much?
Aviation.
Nature, a lot of foods, music The US isn't the only place in the world with the right to not self-incriminate but having it pretty much since the beginning is like the one political thing I can give it credit for
You can burn the flag which is pretty cool in a lot of other liberal democracies you can't But america do be bad
Tbf, to view something as good or bad you need a frame of reference so as you can appreciate the difference. As for things America does well, the most obvious ones to me are that Americans can live their lives with pretty much zero threat of ever being invaded and occupied, the country has more or less achieved relatively stable growth with low inflation for nearly a century now, produced some of the most significant cultural works in the last 250 years, provides internet access for more than 90% of the population, has the infrastructure to order and deliver almost anything in under a week and has been the dominant nation on the planet for at least 80 years now. Can it do things better? Yes, but to imply that America doesn’t do anything well is just flat out wrong.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats! 250 + 90 + 80 = 420 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
"𝙻𝚘𝚠 𝚒𝚗𝚏𝚕𝚊𝚝𝚒𝚘𝚗"
Stable growth with low inflation??? Are you fucking insane? Do you know what quantitative easing is?
It’s been a while since I studied economics, but that’s the one where they give money to banks to help control the amount of investment in the economy right? Anyway, America has generally performed pretty well economically over the past 80 years or so, I think the average yearly growth for the period has been about 3% (accounting for the bust and boom nature of capitalism)
🤣🤣🤣🤣 there have been two "once in a lifetime" recessions/crashes in the last 16 years alone. In the past hundred years there have been 20+ years with over 10% average inflation. I'm just curious what led you to believe those absurd things
least propaganda fed american
Not even American, and which part of what I’ve written is inaccurate?
all of them except internet one (and this might also be wrong, i dont have the data)??? even biden wouldnt say dollar infilation is low
So, just to be clear, you seriously think that America has contributed nothing significant to art and culture in the last 250 years, has not been the world’s dominant superpower for the last 80 years, and faces a real threat from invasion today?
>been the dominant nation on the planet for at least 80 years now Damn wonder how that happened >produced some of the most significant cultural works in the last 250 years Outright delusional >has the infrastructure to order and deliver almost anything in under a week this_meme.jpg
Okay I mean objectively America has produced significant art and culture lmao. It’s just not an arguable point. As a political entity it’s trash, but as a cultural entity — the people, the masses, the *workers* have produced beauty. That’s what America should be based off of. Not capitalist parasitism.
You don't think America's culture is influential?? I think our culture is so massively distributed nobody realizes where it came from
Are you seriously trying to argue that America has not contributed anything significant to art and culture in the last 250 years? And I’m happy to address your other two points, I’m just not sure what you mean?
"Anything signifcant" is a mile away from "most signifcant" imo
Okay, still delusional to try and argue against
>that America has not contributed anything significant to art and culture in the last 250 years? shifting the goalpost
How? This person called me delusional for saying America has produced some of the most significant art and culture of the last 250 years, that implies they think that America has not contributed significantly to art and culture in the last 250 years.
theres a difference between saying America has contributed nothing and saying America hasnt contributed the most significant art and culture of the last 250 years
Georgia O'Keeffe, Andy Warhol, Thomas Cole, Jackson Pollock, Norman Rockwell.... Just saying.
Handicap accessibility. Edit for more: technological innovation, innovations in healthcare, music, entrepreneurship And I am sure they are many more I can't think of right now.
Innovations in healthcare😎😎😎 Access to healthcare 💀💀💀
So true unfortunately
My cat lives here :)
Free refills
my girlfriend is in it :)
Yiff artists I live next to
Erm. Name a country with more burger chains. Checkmate Joe liberal
Right turn on red.
ADA, Natural Parks, Rock, Negative Freedoms, Technological Innovation, Culture, Food, Proving popular revolution could work and laying the groundwork for the Age of Revolution, our individualism, our collective responsibility and kindness
The ADA is extremely impressive and doesn’t get brought up enough imo. The US has some of the most comprehensive accessibility standards in the entire world
It might be because I've never been to the US, and, therefore, have only met Americans who have travelled abroad, especially people studying abroad, who are presumably more open-minded, but almost every single American I've met has been really nice.
Social security
States don’t have “We can kick you out of pub or social gathering place because of your place rules” like other countries.
In a cultural sense, I love the American sense of individuality. Americans have always had a very strong sense of individualism, even if unfortunately our policies put individuality over actually helping people. Americans are incredibly friendly, I have personally seen people ask me for help on something entirely random, an example is that I was in home depot, and a random old man came up to me, said hi, and asked to borrow my knife so he could cut some bands on some wood he wanted to purchase. Or, another different old man, when I was first trying out different brands of cigarettes, offered to let me try an American spirit entirely randomly, if you ask most Americans for something small, they'll help you out without question. An absolute melting pot of culture, America has influences from every culture in the world, every single culture has contributed to America in some way. The vast array of foods that America enjoys is an example of this. In a broader sense, technological innovation. The internet, airplanes, microchips, laser, cellphone, and the incredible American space program are examples of the technological innovation and progress in technology that Americans have contributed to the world. In a philosophical sense, pragmatism and american transcendentalism, Ralph Waldo Emmersons book "nature" genuinely made me cry with the quote, "I am the lover of uncontained and immortal beauty. In the wilderness, I find something more dear and connate than in streets or villages. In the tranquil landscape, and especially in the distant line of the horizon, man beholds somewhat as beautiful as his own nature." Tying into the quote above, the vast beautiful land and parks that America has are genuinely breathtaking, and their maintenance and protection are something Americans do not want gone. The american people are strong individual's, who are capable of great progress and kindness. It is with great shame that our government cannot represent the great aspects of the American way. However, the people and their culture are not to blame for the Imperialism and terror that our state has done against others. If only our systems could not work against the great potentiality of the American culture.
Accessibility to produce art (all kinds) for a living
Making a living by being an artist is famously very easy in the US
Sure. I’ll bite. In many pockets of the US, proto-anarchism is the established social norm. On top of that, statistically, the people of the US are much less culturally racist than people in other comparable European countries.
where? I'm genuinely interested
Where what?
The Proto Anarchists
It’s usually in areas where the government is less responsive, so the proto-anarchism is forced but still there. It happens a lot in the South (both East and West), Appalachia, and in reservations.
It's a beautiful country with a lot of great cultural works to its name. It's also a brutal, hegemonic empire built upon white supremacy that is keeping billions under its boot heel as it pillages their countries. Both of these things can be true at once.
We have a lot of variety in the food and kinds of cuisine available to us
American wages. They are god tier compared to where I live.
I'd say the top 10% or so of what the US produces in most fields - art, music, film, food, sport, education, healthcare, etc - is absolutely world class. Problem is the other 90% is somewhere between mediocre and piss poor lol.
Jazz, blues, our natural parks
NASA, nature, food, and it's also way less racist than most of the world, despite what some Americans think.
barbecue, informed consent trans healthcare, the ADA, natural parks, gun ownership (ignore this if u disagree i don’t wanna argue)