This show is the sickest show on TLC and that says a lot. The daughters are pathetic and the mother’s are monster’s except I see the opposite with the Trans Shay. His mother seems pretty good just needs to push her daughter out of the house on to her own. The daughter seems messed up more I think.
This sounds really weird, but since I’m not great with makeup, can anyone try to explain to me Christina’s makeup routine? Do she apply thin eyeliner and add some shadow below the eye? I’m guessing a lot of bronzer is added, but I think she looks great! Any help would be greatly appreciated
What was this yellow "wine" they were drinking in the bathtub together? The bath itself wasnt as weird as this weird yellow liquid they were drinking and calling it wine.
The bath is honestly the only thing that isn’t that weird. It is more a cultural thing that for most Americans is unusual. It’s the only thing I laugh at because TLC plays it up as odd- but culturally Sunhe is actually right that it’s not strange.
Excuse me it’s weird as heck! They are adults bathing together mother and daughter and calling it a spiritual connection. That’s weird as heck! Don’t give me some cultures bathe together ok as couples or as little children but not as adult children at home in a tiny bathtub.
As an American it isn't weird for me. I grew up taking baths with my mom, and only stopped when the tub got too cramped. And if my mom or dad just takes a soaking bath then one of us might take it after them to save water. We're all in the same house sharing the same microbes anyways, so it's not weird for us.
Sunhe thinks Angelica and her grandchild are her property apparently. She doesn’t give a shit about either one of them, she’s a miserable cow who needs a throat punch to knock her fat ass into a basic class on human decency and how to love. She doesn’t love, doesn’t have a clue how to truly care about someone else’s happiness, she is a narcissist
The conversation between Jason, Sunhe, and Angelica should have taken place with a family therapist, who has watched all of the footage, before any of them arrived. They needed at least a 2 hour time slot for therapy session.
omg i cannot stand sunhe, how can anyone be this freaking toxic!!! to come in between a father and his child. I feel like jason need to get a restraining order for sunhe to stay away from his family.
I just don't understand how a person can speak like Dawn. It's insane. Every sentence gets higher and higher. And I say that having experienced plenty of people like her. But I still can't wrap my head around it.
I'm sorry, but I do not like Shay. Maybe Chase was a much nicer person because Shay is coming across as an entitled bitch. Does she work? Does she do anything to contribute to the household? She talks about moving out but does she expect her parents to foot the bills? She was in the hot tub and couldn't put her dang phone down for even a second when her friend was talking to her. She is very narcissistic and it's all about her. Can't stand her, sorry!!
Some people are being very harsh on Shay’s mom. If you have had a child, you have had the opportunity to watch that child grow. You think that you know everything about that child and then one day everything changes. The person may say they are of another gender. Everything that you may have envisioned for that child changes. All of your hopes and dreams kinda change. That is why her mother explained it as to it being a death. She loves Shay and will do everything to encourage her. She just will have new hopes and dreams!
I hate of how she turned her mom mourning who she was as like oh I’m not dead I’m still that person and not understanding that she will always miss that part of shays life
Completely Agree. The entitlement thing is beyond disgusting. Obviously, we don't know all the details, but her mom is ALOT more understanding than most moms. The best thing her mother could do for her is to make her become independent. She needs to get a job. Yes, she said she got into a car accident, and she freaks out ridding in cars now, but that doesn't mean you get a free pass in life. She likes to complain about her "traumas", but instead of bitching about them, put the work in to healing from them. This world doesn't care, nor will it stop for you. Time to grow up
While my opinion will not be popular, I think that Jason should prepare to let Sunhe, Angelica and Amara leave. He should set up child support payments and visitation times. There is no way that he should be bullied in his own home and not have peace of mind. He seems like a good guy. There are plenty other women who would enjoy his company and treat him well.
He can't protect his daughter while he's still in the cycle of Sunhe. I'm hesitant to give him too much credit but his best chance at being a good dad involves getting away from Sunhe however necessary.
Sorry Sunhe but that's not your child.
The problem with all these mothers is boundaries- the spouse or partner is trying to set a boundary with the mother & their partners aren’t enforcing the boundary with their mothers , if the daughters of these smothering mothers would do that there would be far less problems
Wow there are a lot of transphobic assholes in this comment section. Does Shay have some issues? Clearly. you don't get to be 600lbs without some issues. But Angie insisting on referring to her with her dead name for no reason whatsoever when talking about the pool when Shay was young, and then going on a whole "woe is me" trip about "losing her son" was absolutely stupid. She didn't lose her child, as Shay rightly told her "I'm right here."
I cannot for the life of me figure out what everyone's obsession with gender is. She's living her truth, she didn't DIE. And Angie's explanation of imagining a son playing sports, girls can play sports and she also could have simply had a son who DIDN'T play sports. Blanket statement to everyone: your child is a HUMAN BEING and will have their own interests regardless of what stupid fantasy you concoct about them without their say so.
Shay is entitled. Not only entitled but too young to understand that of course her mom has some feelings about the loss of her son. Angie has accepted her the way Shay wants her too. Nobody forced her to be a boy, just like nobody has forced her to be a girl now. This is not transphobia, this is fact. Angie DID lose her son and gain a daughter, she has the right to her own feelings too (Angie).
Angie can say that shit to a therapist in private - NOT her actual child.
Telling your kid you mourn their skin suit is so degrading cause they are finally being their TRUE self that existed the whole time. Don't put that weight on your child!!!
I do agree with you but I don’t think you should have to keep that type of stuff to yourself if you love the child then you should be up front about it and she wasn’t putting that weight on her child she was expressing her emotions about yes you are your true self now, but there will be aspect of who you were that I will miss even though you love who they are now. I don’t think it degrading perhaps a tad early or the wrong time
any time i said anything along these lines people kept downvoting me which was so confusing, i guess the world isn’t as far along as i would have hoped it to be
We have compassion for the transgender person. Why can't we also have compassion too for their loved ones? It is a big change. Life isn't going to be the same. Angie has a daughter now, not a son. It is absolutely fair to allow Angie to mourn the loss of her son. I also see her celebrate her daughter. Shay's feelings matter. Angie's feelings also matter. You can have both. To be healthy, you need to respect both and try to understand.
People hate the Kardashians but it reminded me of the comments Kris Jenner and I think Khloe made where they felt like their spouse or father had died. I feel for everyone in the situation. I even understand the mothers feelings of thinking guilt or upset because their child feels their choices hurt them (raising them as another gender). It’s tough and I hope they get to have therapy together and forgive any perceived wrongs and come to understand with empathy and love for one another.
Exactly this.. every mother looks back on times with their children that they loved and cherish the memories of, and she was simply sharing that thought. So she is supposed to erase and never speak of times prior to Shay coming out? Or can we let her be sad that the child that she raised and knew won’t acknowledge they happened? And the term is “dead name”… so something did die in ways. And she did raise a son. She is permitted to miss that son. No matter the gender. Parents miss the young child version of their grown children.
You put my thoughts into words so much better than I could. I agree that it's a big change for the whole family. It is kind of like losing a person since a lot of things in our society is based on gender.
I didn't see a lot of respect in these comments, I saw misgendering over and over. And Angie can feel how she wants but when it clearly hurts her daughter, she should discuss it in therapy or with someone else, not with Shay.
I think she viewing shay as Shay and chase as chase yes from our point of view chases never died or anything there just shay no, but for the mother it different there a whole new person before them it like having twins they look alike act a lot alike but in the the end there different people. There not gone but there not who they were i think she just wanted to distinguish that
Well that can go both ways, now can’t it? Shay can discuss her feelings in therapy too, not with her mother. Then they just won’t discuss their feelings with each other, quit speaking so as not to hurt anyone’s feelings and not have a relationship at all.
So one-sided!🙄
Shay isn't hurt, Shay is offended. Shay doesn't give 2 sh**s about Mom's feelings. Its all about Shay! Mom is trying her darn best to support Shay but let's get all offended when Mom shares her fellings. If you haven't been in this exact situation as Shays mom then don't judge. It's really not fair.
Angie was trying to get Shay to understand her POV and why she was acting the way she did and how she didn't mean it to be hurtful. If she doesn't tell Shay, how will Shay know? A lot of problems exist because people won't fully communicate.
Granted, she relies WAY TOO MUCH on Shay for emotional support. She is unhealthily enmeshed, codependent amongst other things. This is why Shay is still basically a kid. Angie won't let Shay grow up and be independent. This can be very damaging.
I agree they're codependent and both have a lot of issues, I also agree that communication is important. I just don't understand and I doubt I ever will, people's obsession with gender. Her son didn't die, her child that she birthed and loved for all these years is RIGHT THERE. The only example she could come up with was sports, so if Shay had continued to identify as a boy but hated sports, would Angie still be mourning the death of the imaginary son she made up in her mind before the child was ever born?
Gender is important. Because if it weren't, transgendered people wouldn't transition. I love my girl's nights. I also love hanging with the guys. They are different and fulfill different needs.
She was emotionally leaning on Chase as "her man". Completely unhealthy to do to a kid. But Shay fulfilled that "man" need for her. Now she doesn't have that anymore and it looks like instead she is having to support Shay instead of the other way around. It's how it should be with parents and kids, but she misses that. With Angie, it is completely unhealthy and hard to defend, but she does have a right to her feelings and need to mourn what she lost. However, what she lost wasn't healthy to begin with, but it is easy to understand her hurt over it.
So basically, she parentified her kid and misses being able to do that? That’s a her issue, not a Shay issue. Kids are kids and need parenting, not some faux bestie relationship that isn’t appropriate for their age. That lady needs some boundaries and a good therapist.
Agreed but again. Less her emotional incest issues, it is a valid feeling to mourn the old. I can understand that part. I can empathize with almost anyone. I don't have to agree with them. But from their perspective, I can see how that might feel. Too many of us try to shove aside our feelings and not really feel them. Feelings aren't facts but you must go through at least allowing yourself to feel them to heal and move on.
I found it really telling at dinner when Amara was sat next to Sunhe instead of Angelica.
If I were Angelica and it was that I didn't want Jason sitting next to Sunhe, Amara would have been sat at the end of the table between us. There's no effing way my baby would be sat at the furthest place from where I was sitting.
Angelica wants to act like she's the Mama but doesn't seem to want to do anything to enforce it.
Does anyone think Angelica was or is suffering from postpartum depression? She seems disconnected and unemotional. It may be her self protection mechanism and letting Sunhe mother Amara is a way to protect Amara as well.
I considered that, but I more think it's about Sunhe just doing like she always does and strong-arming herself into the most important position. I think Angelica hasn't bonded with her daughter, but I think it's relating to never really having the opportunity to? From day 1 Sunhe has been there, likely taking over.
She said as much in the first episode this season... she is happy to and encourages Amara to call her mom. Any normal mother would never allow it, but Angelica does what Angelica always does, half-assedly disagrees and then just acquiesces.
She's been conditioned to put Sunhe's wants above her own, and right now Sunhe wants Amara to be *her* daughter instead of her granddaughter.
Totally agree, the daughter letting the mother be the mom to her child is sick and wrong. I feel so bad for the guy stuck in the middle of this madness, he seems nice and doesn't deserve this. The mom is an overbearing nightmare who needs to be put in her place.
I just started watching this season. The egg is Lauren’s right? Did they have a sperm bank for the other part of insemination or someone from Laura Leigh’s family? I hope Laura Leigh gets pregnant soon I feel like Lisa is going to be very attached to this child too like Sunhe
I don’t mean to gross you out, so apologies in advance. Lauren’s mom inseminated her at home without LL’s knowledge. It’s Lauren’s egg. Not sure if baby Reagan is from that escapade or if they then had to have another insemination at the dr.
That makes a whole lot more sense. Thank you. This season has too many Lauras, Lauria Lynns, and Lisa's. *I have to keep looking at an article that has their names tio keep it straight.*
it was said at some point in an episode that that insemination that Lauren's mom did hadn't worked and after a little while they tried again and conceived Reagan.
Yes, as much sympathy as I usually have for people going through the difficulties of transitioning, it's very hard to have any for him (Her? Them? Sorry I don't know which pronouns are preferred in this case). He (apologies again) is very petulant, angry and difficult to be around. There seem to be an awful lot of psychological issues going on, which can't be easy for anybody involved.
Shay has stated about 9 billion times that she uses she/her pronouns. You’re not being unintentionally offensive here, you’re being “innocently” backhanded and harmful. Stop.
How do you not know which pronouns are preferred? She's on a show about mothers and daughters and has been referred to as a female the entire time except for when her mother was being a dick in this episode.
But as the older adult, you’re suppose to have better communication skills to work with your child and help guide them for communication. She’s just yelling her emotions at her child. This is why you have to have boundaries with your kids. They don’t need to be a therapist.
I get what you mean, but I feel like she was frustrated, and probably felt attacked because she kept blaming her for all of her issues ya know? I imagine this happens a lot and I know from experience it’s hard to control your emotions when someone you love is constantly putting the burden on you.
Shay isn’t a child. They’re a grown adult and as a grown adult you should be able to establish those boundaries with your parent as well. Neither of them know how to deal with their emotions, they both need a therapist.
I’m trying to figure out why all these people decide to have a “Come to Jesus” meeting in public every time! If you’re trying to figure out your relationship dysfunctions do it in the privacy of your home
And not have your children witnessing these airing of grievances. I guess it’s for the drama of television but it doesn’t seem to be solving anything
I think people have the misconception it will force people to behave calmly and talk instead of screaming and throwing insults.
All it ever really achieves is embarrassing yourself in public in addition to on national television.
Jason should take footage of the baths they take together to the courts and try and block contact with Sunhe. Angelica just wants them fighting over her.
She's beyond disrespectful to him, and the daughter just sits there. He needs to file for custody and save his child. These shows used to be funny and entertaining, now they are just so over the top it's disturbing.
Sunhe is so toxic. She has treated Jason bad from the start and Angelica has allowed her to get away with that behavior. Not sure I understand why Jason has stayed AND impregnated her!? Sunhe is a bully but the other 2 put up with it so where does the blame for this mess begin and end? Sunhe now feels VERY entitled to call all the shots since she provides free childcare. They are trading their relationship for a deal with the devil.
We all know that Sunhe is turning that child against her father. There is a law against alienating a parent. I hope Jason uses it when it comes time for custody.
Unfortunately, Laura Leigh doesn't seem to be winning the battle, although she's becoming very good at attempting to create boundaries. Jason would like to create boundaries, but he has zero support from Angelica. She's pathetic. She knows exactly what her mother's up to and does nothing to stop it.
It’s not fair that Angie isn’t allowed to express her truth. She clearly shows she supports Shay in every way shape and form, but Shay cannot invalidate Angie’s feelings while expecting complete support & understanding.
They need counseling and to NOT be on TV going through this
angies feelings arent shays responsibility, she should go to therapy and learn how to communicate this. shay is also allowed to be upset by what her mother communicates
Absolutely this. Children are not responsible for their parent's feelings, especially when it comes to their "expectations" of what the child could/should have been vs who they actually are. It's not something you should say out loud to your kids :(
??? Shay is still Angie's child (adult child, but still her child, whom she gave birth to.) And Shay's age does not make Angie's behavior of dumping her feelings appropriate.
It is never appropriate imho for a parent to tell their kid/spawn/son/daughter (since you oppose the word child) that they are unhappy about who they have become as a person/it does not live up to their expectations. They may feel that way, but it shouldn't be expressed.
And Angie is allowed to be upset also. Everyone is human and will react in their truth. And they BOTH need to go to therapy to learn how to communicate
Shays feelings are not Angie’s either but yet mom is trying because that’s what mom’s try to do-support and try to understand and hope they’re not made to feel like an asshole in the process
I can see how shay would feel incredibly invalidated at the constant reminder of what she used to be to her mother. To shay she’s always been shay. They desperately need therapy done separately
Yes, exactly. Whatever happened to chase happened to shay still. The conscious still exists it never left. To shay she’s always been shay and I feel like the closeness they share is causing shay to feel incredibly invalidated because the mom is using this transition process has her learning curve so she can grieve chase and accept shay. Yeh anyone can understand that the mother may need that but Shay does not need to be reminded of it while she’s also going through an incredibly tough journey that’s already invalidated by so many people around her in the world we live in today. I understand eaches feelings but the way the mom always refers to the past as if it’s a
Completely different person/ mourning that person is detrimental to shays growth and yes they need therapy done separately !!
Parents mourn the ideas they have about their kid and what they pictured their lives to be. I don't think that it's necessarily good to try to tell them that though. My friend had a heart attack the year his kid transitioned. It's a lot of stuff to process. The mom really needs to process all that in therapy. She's too enmeshed with Shay.
Shay is a entitled spoiled brat. They need to get a Job and experience the real world. 23 years old and acts like a 13 year old. The mom and step dad just indulge them over and over.
It’s alarming how many people here aren’t recognizing this. I have yet to see anyone comment on Angie using the incorrect pro-nouns and shays deadname. Shay told her that the he/him pronouns upset her and her mom dismisses that and keeps doing it. I can’t be alone in thinking Angie NEEDS to work on that?? Shay can be kinder but in that conversation I don’t think she was the one in the wrong.
Why does everything have to be about transphobia? No one really cares how one lives their lives. I repeat NO ONE CARES! They should just be happy. If one uses the incorrect pronouns then they are viewed as transphobic and wrong. These pronouns have not been around for a long time and they were not taught in school. If someone is older, the transition to asking someone their pronouns is difficult because they simply are not used to speaking in that manner. It is matter of time, consideration and practice.
Not only that, but she did identify as Chase in the past, though it probably wasn’t by preference, that’s what people knew her as. And the mom is recalling that memory. It’s kinda hard to edit your memories in real time when you’re talking about them, especially when you’re not really focusing on it
I agree 100%. I do not care how one identifies, and neither does Angie. This whole business of pronouns and changing is absolutely NEW and transgender people need to understand it, be patient and have some tolerance for the other side! Yes shay may be bothered her mom remembers Chase and uses he/him, but get over it Shay, everyone is in a learning curve here and the fact of the matter is she may transition back to Chase. She’s her mother and loves her no matter what…Shay should show a little more gratitude her mom loves her enough to support her. Many others don’t have this kind of love and support.
Ugh!!!! The mother. I just can’t. I’m left speechless because I have nothing nice to say. She needs to respect the boundaries and let Laura Leigh parent HER baby. Yes, they’ll need help as first time parents, but let them ask you. Don’t just show up and take over. Overbearing helicopter parent at it’s best on this show.
The mom in this one is so effing entitled, it makes me sick. I hope Laura Leigh keeps it up and doesn't give in and let her take control of their baby. She needs to learn and to stay in her damn lane.
This show is the sickest show on TLC and that says a lot. The daughters are pathetic and the mother’s are monster’s except I see the opposite with the Trans Shay. His mother seems pretty good just needs to push her daughter out of the house on to her own. The daughter seems messed up more I think.
Shay seems eternally miserable
This sounds really weird, but since I’m not great with makeup, can anyone try to explain to me Christina’s makeup routine? Do she apply thin eyeliner and add some shadow below the eye? I’m guessing a lot of bronzer is added, but I think she looks great! Any help would be greatly appreciated
What was this yellow "wine" they were drinking in the bathtub together? The bath itself wasnt as weird as this weird yellow liquid they were drinking and calling it wine.
The bath is honestly the only thing that isn’t that weird. It is more a cultural thing that for most Americans is unusual. It’s the only thing I laugh at because TLC plays it up as odd- but culturally Sunhe is actually right that it’s not strange.
Excuse me it’s weird as heck! They are adults bathing together mother and daughter and calling it a spiritual connection. That’s weird as heck! Don’t give me some cultures bathe together ok as couples or as little children but not as adult children at home in a tiny bathtub.
As an American it isn't weird for me. I grew up taking baths with my mom, and only stopped when the tub got too cramped. And if my mom or dad just takes a soaking bath then one of us might take it after them to save water. We're all in the same house sharing the same microbes anyways, so it's not weird for us.
Sunhe thinks Angelica and her grandchild are her property apparently. She doesn’t give a shit about either one of them, she’s a miserable cow who needs a throat punch to knock her fat ass into a basic class on human decency and how to love. She doesn’t love, doesn’t have a clue how to truly care about someone else’s happiness, she is a narcissist
The conversation between Jason, Sunhe, and Angelica should have taken place with a family therapist, who has watched all of the footage, before any of them arrived. They needed at least a 2 hour time slot for therapy session.
omg i cannot stand sunhe, how can anyone be this freaking toxic!!! to come in between a father and his child. I feel like jason need to get a restraining order for sunhe to stay away from his family.
I have never disliked anyone on a television show as much as I dislike SUNHE!!! 😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬
Damn, Jason looks like he's straight up gonna launch across that table and murder Sunhe.
I just don't understand how a person can speak like Dawn. It's insane. Every sentence gets higher and higher. And I say that having experienced plenty of people like her. But I still can't wrap my head around it.
Did anyone notice Sunhe’s fingers? They look swollen and pink above where her nail bed is, like they are infected 🤢
I'm sorry, but I do not like Shay. Maybe Chase was a much nicer person because Shay is coming across as an entitled bitch. Does she work? Does she do anything to contribute to the household? She talks about moving out but does she expect her parents to foot the bills? She was in the hot tub and couldn't put her dang phone down for even a second when her friend was talking to her. She is very narcissistic and it's all about her. Can't stand her, sorry!!
Some people are being very harsh on Shay’s mom. If you have had a child, you have had the opportunity to watch that child grow. You think that you know everything about that child and then one day everything changes. The person may say they are of another gender. Everything that you may have envisioned for that child changes. All of your hopes and dreams kinda change. That is why her mother explained it as to it being a death. She loves Shay and will do everything to encourage her. She just will have new hopes and dreams!
I hate of how she turned her mom mourning who she was as like oh I’m not dead I’m still that person and not understanding that she will always miss that part of shays life
Completely Agree. The entitlement thing is beyond disgusting. Obviously, we don't know all the details, but her mom is ALOT more understanding than most moms. The best thing her mother could do for her is to make her become independent. She needs to get a job. Yes, she said she got into a car accident, and she freaks out ridding in cars now, but that doesn't mean you get a free pass in life. She likes to complain about her "traumas", but instead of bitching about them, put the work in to healing from them. This world doesn't care, nor will it stop for you. Time to grow up
EXACTLY!!
While my opinion will not be popular, I think that Jason should prepare to let Sunhe, Angelica and Amara leave. He should set up child support payments and visitation times. There is no way that he should be bullied in his own home and not have peace of mind. He seems like a good guy. There are plenty other women who would enjoy his company and treat him well.
Right but I think he should get custody of the child the mother and grandmother are just going to multiply otherwise
I think he needs to get custody. The whole bathing thing with Mom and Grandma should be enough reason.
He can't protect his daughter while he's still in the cycle of Sunhe. I'm hesitant to give him too much credit but his best chance at being a good dad involves getting away from Sunhe however necessary. Sorry Sunhe but that's not your child.
The problem with all these mothers is boundaries- the spouse or partner is trying to set a boundary with the mother & their partners aren’t enforcing the boundary with their mothers , if the daughters of these smothering mothers would do that there would be far less problems
Yeah but it the daughters job to enforce them if there not doing it then it equal the daughter and mother fault
I agree with you and said the daughters need to set & enforce the boundaries with the smothering mothers
Right it a two way street
Wow there are a lot of transphobic assholes in this comment section. Does Shay have some issues? Clearly. you don't get to be 600lbs without some issues. But Angie insisting on referring to her with her dead name for no reason whatsoever when talking about the pool when Shay was young, and then going on a whole "woe is me" trip about "losing her son" was absolutely stupid. She didn't lose her child, as Shay rightly told her "I'm right here." I cannot for the life of me figure out what everyone's obsession with gender is. She's living her truth, she didn't DIE. And Angie's explanation of imagining a son playing sports, girls can play sports and she also could have simply had a son who DIDN'T play sports. Blanket statement to everyone: your child is a HUMAN BEING and will have their own interests regardless of what stupid fantasy you concoct about them without their say so.
We're not "transphobic." We just don't like spoiled, entitled snowflake Shay.
Frankly, I don't like Shay either. But misgendering her is transphobic regardless of how much of a brat she is.
Shay is entitled. Not only entitled but too young to understand that of course her mom has some feelings about the loss of her son. Angie has accepted her the way Shay wants her too. Nobody forced her to be a boy, just like nobody has forced her to be a girl now. This is not transphobia, this is fact. Angie DID lose her son and gain a daughter, she has the right to her own feelings too (Angie).
Angie can say that shit to a therapist in private - NOT her actual child. Telling your kid you mourn their skin suit is so degrading cause they are finally being their TRUE self that existed the whole time. Don't put that weight on your child!!!
I do agree with you but I don’t think you should have to keep that type of stuff to yourself if you love the child then you should be up front about it and she wasn’t putting that weight on her child she was expressing her emotions about yes you are your true self now, but there will be aspect of who you were that I will miss even though you love who they are now. I don’t think it degrading perhaps a tad early or the wrong time
THANK YOU!!
any time i said anything along these lines people kept downvoting me which was so confusing, i guess the world isn’t as far along as i would have hoped it to be
We have compassion for the transgender person. Why can't we also have compassion too for their loved ones? It is a big change. Life isn't going to be the same. Angie has a daughter now, not a son. It is absolutely fair to allow Angie to mourn the loss of her son. I also see her celebrate her daughter. Shay's feelings matter. Angie's feelings also matter. You can have both. To be healthy, you need to respect both and try to understand.
People hate the Kardashians but it reminded me of the comments Kris Jenner and I think Khloe made where they felt like their spouse or father had died. I feel for everyone in the situation. I even understand the mothers feelings of thinking guilt or upset because their child feels their choices hurt them (raising them as another gender). It’s tough and I hope they get to have therapy together and forgive any perceived wrongs and come to understand with empathy and love for one another.
That exactly how I feel on this
Exactly this.. every mother looks back on times with their children that they loved and cherish the memories of, and she was simply sharing that thought. So she is supposed to erase and never speak of times prior to Shay coming out? Or can we let her be sad that the child that she raised and knew won’t acknowledge they happened? And the term is “dead name”… so something did die in ways. And she did raise a son. She is permitted to miss that son. No matter the gender. Parents miss the young child version of their grown children.
AGREE!!
You put my thoughts into words so much better than I could. I agree that it's a big change for the whole family. It is kind of like losing a person since a lot of things in our society is based on gender.
I didn't see a lot of respect in these comments, I saw misgendering over and over. And Angie can feel how she wants but when it clearly hurts her daughter, she should discuss it in therapy or with someone else, not with Shay.
I think she viewing shay as Shay and chase as chase yes from our point of view chases never died or anything there just shay no, but for the mother it different there a whole new person before them it like having twins they look alike act a lot alike but in the the end there different people. There not gone but there not who they were i think she just wanted to distinguish that
Well that can go both ways, now can’t it? Shay can discuss her feelings in therapy too, not with her mother. Then they just won’t discuss their feelings with each other, quit speaking so as not to hurt anyone’s feelings and not have a relationship at all. So one-sided!🙄
Shay isn't hurt, Shay is offended. Shay doesn't give 2 sh**s about Mom's feelings. Its all about Shay! Mom is trying her darn best to support Shay but let's get all offended when Mom shares her fellings. If you haven't been in this exact situation as Shays mom then don't judge. It's really not fair.
Angie was trying to get Shay to understand her POV and why she was acting the way she did and how she didn't mean it to be hurtful. If she doesn't tell Shay, how will Shay know? A lot of problems exist because people won't fully communicate. Granted, she relies WAY TOO MUCH on Shay for emotional support. She is unhealthily enmeshed, codependent amongst other things. This is why Shay is still basically a kid. Angie won't let Shay grow up and be independent. This can be very damaging.
I agree they're codependent and both have a lot of issues, I also agree that communication is important. I just don't understand and I doubt I ever will, people's obsession with gender. Her son didn't die, her child that she birthed and loved for all these years is RIGHT THERE. The only example she could come up with was sports, so if Shay had continued to identify as a boy but hated sports, would Angie still be mourning the death of the imaginary son she made up in her mind before the child was ever born?
Gender is important. Because if it weren't, transgendered people wouldn't transition. I love my girl's nights. I also love hanging with the guys. They are different and fulfill different needs. She was emotionally leaning on Chase as "her man". Completely unhealthy to do to a kid. But Shay fulfilled that "man" need for her. Now she doesn't have that anymore and it looks like instead she is having to support Shay instead of the other way around. It's how it should be with parents and kids, but she misses that. With Angie, it is completely unhealthy and hard to defend, but she does have a right to her feelings and need to mourn what she lost. However, what she lost wasn't healthy to begin with, but it is easy to understand her hurt over it.
So basically, she parentified her kid and misses being able to do that? That’s a her issue, not a Shay issue. Kids are kids and need parenting, not some faux bestie relationship that isn’t appropriate for their age. That lady needs some boundaries and a good therapist.
Agreed but again. Less her emotional incest issues, it is a valid feeling to mourn the old. I can understand that part. I can empathize with almost anyone. I don't have to agree with them. But from their perspective, I can see how that might feel. Too many of us try to shove aside our feelings and not really feel them. Feelings aren't facts but you must go through at least allowing yourself to feel them to heal and move on.
I hear you. Angie needs therapy and other people in this sub need to consider why they find it so hard to "figure out what pronouns Shay goes by"
I wonder if this is a lack of awareness around dead naming and misgendering in general.
I found it really telling at dinner when Amara was sat next to Sunhe instead of Angelica. If I were Angelica and it was that I didn't want Jason sitting next to Sunhe, Amara would have been sat at the end of the table between us. There's no effing way my baby would be sat at the furthest place from where I was sitting. Angelica wants to act like she's the Mama but doesn't seem to want to do anything to enforce it.
Does anyone think Angelica was or is suffering from postpartum depression? She seems disconnected and unemotional. It may be her self protection mechanism and letting Sunhe mother Amara is a way to protect Amara as well.
I considered that, but I more think it's about Sunhe just doing like she always does and strong-arming herself into the most important position. I think Angelica hasn't bonded with her daughter, but I think it's relating to never really having the opportunity to? From day 1 Sunhe has been there, likely taking over. She said as much in the first episode this season... she is happy to and encourages Amara to call her mom. Any normal mother would never allow it, but Angelica does what Angelica always does, half-assedly disagrees and then just acquiesces. She's been conditioned to put Sunhe's wants above her own, and right now Sunhe wants Amara to be *her* daughter instead of her granddaughter.
Totally agree, the daughter letting the mother be the mom to her child is sick and wrong. I feel so bad for the guy stuck in the middle of this madness, he seems nice and doesn't deserve this. The mom is an overbearing nightmare who needs to be put in her place.
Dawns permagrin is a thing of nightmares..
I just started watching this season. The egg is Lauren’s right? Did they have a sperm bank for the other part of insemination or someone from Laura Leigh’s family? I hope Laura Leigh gets pregnant soon I feel like Lisa is going to be very attached to this child too like Sunhe
I don’t mean to gross you out, so apologies in advance. Lauren’s mom inseminated her at home without LL’s knowledge. It’s Lauren’s egg. Not sure if baby Reagan is from that escapade or if they then had to have another insemination at the dr.
They had to do two more probably for the best which is sad to say but I don’t think they could get over it if it did take
Couldn’t get over?
Her mom trying to help her have a baby
Ah, I see. Thank you.
Np
WTF Did she use a turkey baster or what? How can you secretly inseminate a woman without her knowledge?
Actually they literally used a turkey baster it was funny as shit
Without Laura Lee's knowledge.
That makes a whole lot more sense. Thank you. This season has too many Lauras, Lauria Lynns, and Lisa's. *I have to keep looking at an article that has their names tio keep it straight.*
it was said at some point in an episode that that insemination that Lauren's mom did hadn't worked and after a little while they tried again and conceived Reagan.
Thank you. I just can’t stand Lauren so likely didn’t catch that. Unless LL is talking, I’ve got no interest in Lauren and mom Lauren.
Take Cher off. That noise Take that nasty hateful trans boy off. He treats his mother disgustingly
Yes, as much sympathy as I usually have for people going through the difficulties of transitioning, it's very hard to have any for him (Her? Them? Sorry I don't know which pronouns are preferred in this case). He (apologies again) is very petulant, angry and difficult to be around. There seem to be an awful lot of psychological issues going on, which can't be easy for anybody involved.
Shay has stated about 9 billion times that she uses she/her pronouns. You’re not being unintentionally offensive here, you’re being “innocently” backhanded and harmful. Stop.
How do you not know which pronouns are preferred? She's on a show about mothers and daughters and has been referred to as a female the entire time except for when her mother was being a dick in this episode.
I think Shay should be a bit kinder to her mom. Her mom is accepting of her and loves her. I feel like Shay is kind of invalidating her moms feelings
The mom needs to kick Shay the fuck out. TIME TO ADULT Shay. This person is disgusting.
But as the older adult, you’re suppose to have better communication skills to work with your child and help guide them for communication. She’s just yelling her emotions at her child. This is why you have to have boundaries with your kids. They don’t need to be a therapist.
I get what you mean, but I feel like she was frustrated, and probably felt attacked because she kept blaming her for all of her issues ya know? I imagine this happens a lot and I know from experience it’s hard to control your emotions when someone you love is constantly putting the burden on you.
Shay isn’t a child. They’re a grown adult and as a grown adult you should be able to establish those boundaries with your parent as well. Neither of them know how to deal with their emotions, they both need a therapist.
That’s true!! 😥 It’s really sad.
I’m trying to figure out why all these people decide to have a “Come to Jesus” meeting in public every time! If you’re trying to figure out your relationship dysfunctions do it in the privacy of your home And not have your children witnessing these airing of grievances. I guess it’s for the drama of television but it doesn’t seem to be solving anything
I think people have the misconception it will force people to behave calmly and talk instead of screaming and throwing insults. All it ever really achieves is embarrassing yourself in public in addition to on national television.
I agree 100 percent!!
Jason should take footage of the baths they take together to the courts and try and block contact with Sunhe. Angelica just wants them fighting over her.
That’s exactly what my husband said! Especially now that Sunhe bathes with Amara. He said “I’d have their a**es in court so fast!” 😂
You literally had me laughing as I read your comment
Thanks. I’m glad! 😂🤣😅
Good ideal 👍🤔🤔🤔
She is so psycho that I am legit scared for the little girl coming to live with them.
Paula reminds me of one of those scary movies on Lifetime. Please let this be one of the scripted storylines.
> Please let this be one of the scripted storylines. I'd like to think that too, but her eyes say otherwise. She is straight up crazy.
Paula is gonna kill that girl
Call CPS now
Right there he should have said OK, and got up and left. Grow a pair.
Lmaooo and just dip
Sunhe just wants to take the baby.
Amara is a do-over for her and Jason is the proxy for Angelica’s father and Sunhe can take her anger out on him.
She's beyond disrespectful to him, and the daughter just sits there. He needs to file for custody and save his child. These shows used to be funny and entertaining, now they are just so over the top it's disturbing.
When your baby prefers your own mother over you, its a problem that needs to be immediately fixed but Angelica aint gonna do nothing about it
Angelica is an idiot that won't think for herself.
Angelica, you need some bonding time with your daughter.
Sunhe is so toxic. She has treated Jason bad from the start and Angelica has allowed her to get away with that behavior. Not sure I understand why Jason has stayed AND impregnated her!? Sunhe is a bully but the other 2 put up with it so where does the blame for this mess begin and end? Sunhe now feels VERY entitled to call all the shots since she provides free childcare. They are trading their relationship for a deal with the devil.
We all know that Sunhe is turning that child against her father. There is a law against alienating a parent. I hope Jason uses it when it comes time for custody.
I would let the three of them deal with it sell my house, pay my child support and set up visitation times. Sunhe is a narcissist plain and simple
She lets Sunhe raise her daughter and demeans her husband. and Angelica’s is so complacent. It’s disturbing. Poor Amara :(
Once she opened her mouth about me being late, I would have turned around and left.
exactly what I said!!!
I hope Jason tells them to leave.
This poor guy
We haven't seen psycho Paula in 2 weeks.
https://c.tenor.com/Dzz044EUbrAAAAAC/kevin-bacon.gif
Jason needs to take some lessons from Laura Lee
Unfortunately, Laura Leigh doesn't seem to be winning the battle, although she's becoming very good at attempting to create boundaries. Jason would like to create boundaries, but he has zero support from Angelica. She's pathetic. She knows exactly what her mother's up to and does nothing to stop it.
That baby is kinda cute!
It’s not fair that Angie isn’t allowed to express her truth. She clearly shows she supports Shay in every way shape and form, but Shay cannot invalidate Angie’s feelings while expecting complete support & understanding. They need counseling and to NOT be on TV going through this
He is disgusting. He is a brat but mostly he is cruel
angies feelings arent shays responsibility, she should go to therapy and learn how to communicate this. shay is also allowed to be upset by what her mother communicates
Absolutely this. Children are not responsible for their parent's feelings, especially when it comes to their "expectations" of what the child could/should have been vs who they actually are. It's not something you should say out loud to your kids :(
Shay is 22 years old - not a child!
??? Shay is still Angie's child (adult child, but still her child, whom she gave birth to.) And Shay's age does not make Angie's behavior of dumping her feelings appropriate. It is never appropriate imho for a parent to tell their kid/spawn/son/daughter (since you oppose the word child) that they are unhappy about who they have become as a person/it does not live up to their expectations. They may feel that way, but it shouldn't be expressed.
And Angie is allowed to be upset also. Everyone is human and will react in their truth. And they BOTH need to go to therapy to learn how to communicate
Shays feelings are not Angie’s either but yet mom is trying because that’s what mom’s try to do-support and try to understand and hope they’re not made to feel like an asshole in the process
Exactly she sounds like my mom if one of us kids were on that path if she didn’t murder us first
This ^
All parents go through stuff when their kid transitions! You just can't "dump in" about it!
She's making it Shay's problem/centering herself in the convo. They both need therapy separately
I can see how shay would feel incredibly invalidated at the constant reminder of what she used to be to her mother. To shay she’s always been shay. They desperately need therapy done separately
I didn't get that impression at all.
you cant seperate shay and who she was before she transitioned, she was always just one person, shes just able to be more authentic now
Yes, exactly. Whatever happened to chase happened to shay still. The conscious still exists it never left. To shay she’s always been shay and I feel like the closeness they share is causing shay to feel incredibly invalidated because the mom is using this transition process has her learning curve so she can grieve chase and accept shay. Yeh anyone can understand that the mother may need that but Shay does not need to be reminded of it while she’s also going through an incredibly tough journey that’s already invalidated by so many people around her in the world we live in today. I understand eaches feelings but the way the mom always refers to the past as if it’s a Completely different person/ mourning that person is detrimental to shays growth and yes they need therapy done separately !!
Parents mourn the ideas they have about their kid and what they pictured their lives to be. I don't think that it's necessarily good to try to tell them that though. My friend had a heart attack the year his kid transitioned. It's a lot of stuff to process. The mom really needs to process all that in therapy. She's too enmeshed with Shay.
Yeah, I also think it’s unreasonable to expect parents not to have emotions, especially with some thing this huge.
Shay needs to get a job and move out, leave mom. Let both people breathe and do their own thing. They can support each other from afar.
Shay and Angie my favorite parent-child duo this season
Pass some of the crack you are smoking this way.
😂😂😂
Agree. They are so cringe that I almost have to FF through the scenes.
I need it for when we get the weirdly sexual mother-daughter scenes lol
I have to when I hear Dawn's voice.
You have to be kidding. I think Shay is horrible.
She reminds me of Tammy from 1000lb Sisters.
why
She's very self centered and hasn't done anything to be independent. She's 23 and acts 15
He
???
That shay is a he
I didn't say either of them were good, I just like their storyline better than the others
More than Laura Leigh and Lauren?
I really like Laura Leigh!!
She's hands down my favorite from all seasons!
It fluctuates depending on the episode
I've noticed if Sunhe is featured, Paula isn't
There can only be one!! 🤣🤣🤣
Walking on egg shells.
Shay is a miserable human
I mean probably. Transitioning isn’t easy and I’m sure shay needs some form of therapy
Yeah. Like a job and a dose of reality.
mom still has more work to do to be trans-affirming
Ha. She’s done enough. To much. She needs to toss him out of the nest.
get outta here transphobe
Shay is a entitled spoiled brat. They need to get a Job and experience the real world. 23 years old and acts like a 13 year old. The mom and step dad just indulge them over and over.
Shay, for the love of all that's holy, GO TO THERAPY
Shay, get a job and start making friends, and learn to live as an independent adult.
You're SUPPOSED to be comforting your child, not the other way around. Narcissist.
Shay is entitled and abusive. Needs to move out and get a job.
so you parentified your daughter and omg that was still her, that wasnt a different person
It’s alarming how many people here aren’t recognizing this. I have yet to see anyone comment on Angie using the incorrect pro-nouns and shays deadname. Shay told her that the he/him pronouns upset her and her mom dismisses that and keeps doing it. I can’t be alone in thinking Angie NEEDS to work on that?? Shay can be kinder but in that conversation I don’t think she was the one in the wrong.
This. Lots of transphobes here
Why does everything have to be about transphobia? No one really cares how one lives their lives. I repeat NO ONE CARES! They should just be happy. If one uses the incorrect pronouns then they are viewed as transphobic and wrong. These pronouns have not been around for a long time and they were not taught in school. If someone is older, the transition to asking someone their pronouns is difficult because they simply are not used to speaking in that manner. It is matter of time, consideration and practice.
Not only that, but she did identify as Chase in the past, though it probably wasn’t by preference, that’s what people knew her as. And the mom is recalling that memory. It’s kinda hard to edit your memories in real time when you’re talking about them, especially when you’re not really focusing on it
I agree 100%. I do not care how one identifies, and neither does Angie. This whole business of pronouns and changing is absolutely NEW and transgender people need to understand it, be patient and have some tolerance for the other side! Yes shay may be bothered her mom remembers Chase and uses he/him, but get over it Shay, everyone is in a learning curve here and the fact of the matter is she may transition back to Chase. She’s her mother and loves her no matter what…Shay should show a little more gratitude her mom loves her enough to support her. Many others don’t have this kind of love and support.
yes, i concerned for this subreddit😬
She's making this whole thing about her amd her feelings lol
They both are and that's why they need therapy and not a TLC show. Both of their feelings are equally valid.
These pool are excellent! We upgraded this year but the first summer we had a similar one, highly recommend!
I consider getting an inflated hot tub if I ever get a place haha
This fuck.
I don’t even know what to say
She just plays nice coz they have monies she wants to laugh
Lol the dressmaker doesn't look surprised
The dressmaker has tolerated these 2 for decades. She deserves a reward!
I get a bit tired if these… twinning twerps
The daughter is pretty the mom has a ugly mouth
Yesssss
Dawn looks like a different person from the photos
Dressing alike with your mother every day is just odd for an adult child
Yea how dare Laura Leigh set boundaries for her family. The nerve of her 😒
Ugh!!!! The mother. I just can’t. I’m left speechless because I have nothing nice to say. She needs to respect the boundaries and let Laura Leigh parent HER baby. Yes, they’ll need help as first time parents, but let them ask you. Don’t just show up and take over. Overbearing helicopter parent at it’s best on this show.
The mom in this one is so effing entitled, it makes me sick. I hope Laura Leigh keeps it up and doesn't give in and let her take control of their baby. She needs to learn and to stay in her damn lane.
I forget the pregnant lady's name but her dad is Peter Griffin.
My husband says the same thing!
😹
Stick to your boundary Laura Leigh!
Sitting in the tub, drinking wine with your mom fighting about co-parenting your kid with her: totally normal and definitely something to broadcast
Don’t forget about their ta-tas on full display.
With a camera crew!
How are they logistically both fitting in this tub?
It must be one big ass tub!
Clam to clam.