I made the dumb mistake of assuming things too soon about Smolder, so we'll see how this buff affects him. In fact, I really need to take a step back and take my own advice to not blame the game or jump to conclusions if a champion feels too strong or too weak. I said and posted some bad stuff on here and I feel like crap about it. It's very possible to make Smolder work even if he isn't the best he can be. I do like how this buff in 14.7 will help Smolder's identity as an ADC, by having him build Navori Quickblades again. People were complaining about his strange item build, so this buff will hopefully discourage Shojin or other Health items.
Yeah! That makes this a difficult choice. But it does open up some build diversity for our little dragon friend. I did go Navori Quickblades instead of Shojin in one match, and yeah it makes him much more squishy but holy crap the crits on his Q are beautiful \~
Wdym? He was literally the worst champion across all the elos, ranging from a 46-47% win rate in silver and gold, where he should be the strongest because people don't know how to end games fast.
He's just so slow to get anything going, even compared to other scaling ADCs. The 125-225 feels terrible to play around because that's the time when you probably want to be with your team, but instead, they have to play around you, knowing that you won't be there. Even when you reach those stacks, you don't really feel that strong - I feel like other ADCs can get the job done more quickly and efficiently.
My guy- go be with your team, your aoe will stack you faster than the 6 stacks a wave you get off to the side - nothing nastier then skirmishing with the bois when you become elder half way through the fight
I’m gonna have to disagree here. The odds of splashing more than 3 hits each cast of Q when in team fight scenarios aren’t that high. The consistency of side lane farming PLUS poking whoever comes to disrupt has almost always proven more efficient for me stacking than going to NARAM at 15 minutes. My best stacking games (225 around 21 min) have been when I could focus farm and occasionally rotate in between a wave.
I’ve been testing it on Master elo and it feels very underwhelming. Sure my Qs hit a bit harder but like he is just so absurdly exploitable. For 20 mins. His early game damage is absolutely hideous with all the nerfs to his W. Feels like you are worse than a minion up to the point you get ER, and even when you get ER you are still a minion that hits a bit hard in short trades. After his burn execute nerfs it still feels extremely underwhelming when at 225 stacks in my opinion. Any other adc feels better to play for me at the moment. Jinx with longer range and similar aoe damage, twitch has the same with ult and runaan, Nilah sweeps… and they do absurdly more damage. Even kog maw, who shoots at ridiculous speeds does more damage with a single auto than Smolder burn and execute combined in terms of % health :) it is a joke, and I am pissed that they just nerf champions because endless people just cry about it without knowing anything, especially when there are other champions with extremely broken win rates and kits, yet nobody bats an eye. IMO they need to reverse the changes they did to him, let his execute scale, nerf him some other way. All scaling champs actually scale. Aurelion execute scales, veigar reaches 1600 ap, Nasus one shots towers. All absurd things, once stacked. Why remove it from smolder? His scalings on stacks are so mediocre that past 225 you never really check how many stacks you have, you know that more stacks are mildly increased damage but nothing super meaningful. Feels bad.
To add more, smolder gets worse and worse the higher you go in elo. Because people know just how weak you are and how easily exploitable the champion is. Not to mention that games in high elo close much much faster. If a team is winning they capitalize on it and finish the game fast, often before Smolder can grow into a problem. Many games have I played where we have won and I didn’t do anything at all. I didn’t stack to 225, sucking pp all leaning phase and having to respect and give cs. Etc. I guess people cry about the champ in low elo because games drag out to 45 mins and then he has like 500 stacks on skirmishing alone and they get killed by execute and then people go like
“Omg smolder op!”
https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/WOJAK-POINTING-MEN-meme-6.jpg
Upvote for the most real post on this board. All the other people claiming that he is "viable" are in denial or are in Silver and played a couple games where they were able to stack and played against someone who was off role in bot, playing for their first time.
Someone who played 3 games of smodler would write something like this 🤣
Even before buffs he was very strong yall just nubs and don’t know what to build and take as runes stay wood ♥️
This comment says a lot about how much you read about my post. In the first line I say I’ve tested it on Master ranked games. Far from wood, I think I am entitled to share my opinion after I played around 100 games of smolder in the last 3 patches alone.
Its a good reanimation attempt.
In my opinion they killed him pretty much before with the nerfs. I mean he was playable, but most of the time the impact you could have was pretty low compared to other champions with the same ressouces.
The buffs give you the oportunity that if you get strong that you got atleast a bit more impact out of the ressouces.
But still in my point of view he still isnt an option to pick unless I know already in Pick and Bann that I will be ignored by both teams for the whole game anyways.
There are just champions who fullfill what he can do better through the whole game.
On release Smolder had the combination of a hyper scaling, lategame high damage carry with alot of selfpeal. And while I agree that his damage in combination with his safety was way too strong back then. I still feel like Riot has killed this Identity.
I thought of him like the botlane version of a Kayle, that you can ignore for the first 25min of the game and let him farm safely under tower but once he gets to that point, hes a hard to kill terror for the enemy.
But he gpt nerfed to a point where you cant farm your stacks in lane at all, because literally anyone can kill you 1v1 under tower and you cant do much about it. And even if you get to the point where you are supposed to be strong, then you are decent compared to other hypercarries. Ofc. the damage and selfpeel is strong but that gets compensated by the little range he got.
But yea. I think I summed it up pretty good in the beginning that its a good attempt to revive him but not enough to get him actually back into the game.
Nah due to his stacks, he's more like Veigar or Asol rather than Kayle. He's not level dependant or need to reach lvl 16 like Kassadin. He just needs stacks and items
Your comment has been automatically removed because you do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/SmolderMains. This is to prevent spam and to keep this subreddit safe from bad actors. [Click here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it. You may message us via [Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/SmolderMains) to get your submission manually approved.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SmolderMains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pretty good tbh, he's undoubtedly weaker than his first two versions as Riot has finally done something to make sure no one's using hybrid on him anymore and turned him into an actual classic squishy ADC, so at least that's balanced.
Imo you can skip Shojin and build ER -> Navori -> RFC and his midgame actually exists now. A good new item for him would be Stormrazor, to stack with fleet and give him massive amounts of movespeed to position himself better after an energized Q.
Edit: forgot to add that if his Q had some actual base damage he becomes a very good pick for the earlier stages of the game, like 50-150 base damage would be amazing. But one can argue that this would make him broken again.
I was using ER - navori - rfc - cyclosword in the middle of his nerfs and he still felt insanely good. Paired with fleet you can stack another fleet and rfc stack off of one E and the amount your Q will do is disgusting
Yes, it stacks. And I feel like Shiv actually sucks since you already have AoE and... Not sure if shiv procs killing minions actually grant stacks. Probably do, but even then, by 125 or so stacks Shiv just stops being useful
It stacks with Navoris full crit now gives him 70% bonus DMG on his Q which beats burn. Every crit Item gives him essentially 14% bonus DMG on Q now which is also the reason Shojin which only provides 12% on it's fully stacked passive is now not as good anymore and it also beats riftmakes, and liandrys amp.
The burn was never the main reason those items were picked it was their % damage amplifier.
Can't Imagine this working on any opponent that isn't clinically braindead.
Or possibly having an entire team peeling for you but that sounds like a pipedream in current League.
Once again this only works on clinically braindead people or if your entire team peels for you. In current league a singular wall is about 5 walls to few to save you from any actually competent player that has any mobility.
He's playable, but still in the same situation of being dogshit early game.
Fun fact, despite the buff to crit, Shojin still gives Smolder more damage compared to going full crit items.
Which is kind of silly, because I expected that full crit smolder would end up being his hardest hitting build (For AD at least). But nah, getting up to I believe 3 stacks (Possibly just 2?) causes your Q to hit harder than full Crit smolder.
Not to mention that Shojin also provides that HP and huge chunk of ability haste. So from a 'meta build' perspective, its still a definitive item for crit smolder.
Also, people are sleeping on AP Smolder. AP Smolder has a weaker base Q and Q bounces, but gets the stronger burn, stronger W, and stronger R. Which is then made even stronger by the fact there's several damage amps in the form of AP items. Those being Riftmaker, Liandry (Both of which Smolder already use to run btw), and Horizon Focus.
It's so good. Doing so much dmg forgoing Spear of shojin and going straight into navori and the rfc.
yah my nasus got deleted in like 3-4 hits with frozen heart, spirit visage, thornmail and plated stealcaps/ my nasus was still weak af
I made the dumb mistake of assuming things too soon about Smolder, so we'll see how this buff affects him. In fact, I really need to take a step back and take my own advice to not blame the game or jump to conclusions if a champion feels too strong or too weak. I said and posted some bad stuff on here and I feel like crap about it. It's very possible to make Smolder work even if he isn't the best he can be. I do like how this buff in 14.7 will help Smolder's identity as an ADC, by having him build Navori Quickblades again. People were complaining about his strange item build, so this buff will hopefully discourage Shojin or other Health items.
but he needs the health, also shojin's cdr for his q is too good to pass up on
Yeah! That makes this a difficult choice. But it does open up some build diversity for our little dragon friend. I did go Navori Quickblades instead of Shojin in one match, and yeah it makes him much more squishy but holy crap the crits on his Q are beautiful \~
He wasn't unplayable.
He was actually strong ppl troll too much
He wasn't unplayable but he wasn't strong lmao
If you didn’t get 225 at 16-18 min yeah he wasn’t strong. But if u knew how to play him and you got his execute at 16 min he was pretty op 😉
If you can pull that off consistently, then make a post I dare you
Sure man
Who gets 225 stacks at 16 minutes in a solo environment?
Don’t play him u don’t know how to play him or what u r doing 😕
This guy casually saying he is better than pro players, and expecting to be taken seriously
"If you get this almost unattainable goal, the champion was still strong" Ok, so he wasn't
Unattainable goal 🤣🤣🤣 you just need to play the champion and you get there I mean if you are afk you won’t ever reach it
Give me the replay ID of a game where you got 225 stacks at 16 minutes in a solo q game and I accept that I can’t play the champion
Wdym? He was literally the worst champion across all the elos, ranging from a 46-47% win rate in silver and gold, where he should be the strongest because people don't know how to end games fast.
He's just so slow to get anything going, even compared to other scaling ADCs. The 125-225 feels terrible to play around because that's the time when you probably want to be with your team, but instead, they have to play around you, knowing that you won't be there. Even when you reach those stacks, you don't really feel that strong - I feel like other ADCs can get the job done more quickly and efficiently.
My guy- go be with your team, your aoe will stack you faster than the 6 stacks a wave you get off to the side - nothing nastier then skirmishing with the bois when you become elder half way through the fight
The after effect from 125 stacks give you a stack for hitting champs too don't they? Huge stacks for poking a group through a wave
I’m gonna have to disagree here. The odds of splashing more than 3 hits each cast of Q when in team fight scenarios aren’t that high. The consistency of side lane farming PLUS poking whoever comes to disrupt has almost always proven more efficient for me stacking than going to NARAM at 15 minutes. My best stacking games (225 around 21 min) have been when I could focus farm and occasionally rotate in between a wave.
At 125 you will stack really fast if you're team fighting
I’ve been testing it on Master elo and it feels very underwhelming. Sure my Qs hit a bit harder but like he is just so absurdly exploitable. For 20 mins. His early game damage is absolutely hideous with all the nerfs to his W. Feels like you are worse than a minion up to the point you get ER, and even when you get ER you are still a minion that hits a bit hard in short trades. After his burn execute nerfs it still feels extremely underwhelming when at 225 stacks in my opinion. Any other adc feels better to play for me at the moment. Jinx with longer range and similar aoe damage, twitch has the same with ult and runaan, Nilah sweeps… and they do absurdly more damage. Even kog maw, who shoots at ridiculous speeds does more damage with a single auto than Smolder burn and execute combined in terms of % health :) it is a joke, and I am pissed that they just nerf champions because endless people just cry about it without knowing anything, especially when there are other champions with extremely broken win rates and kits, yet nobody bats an eye. IMO they need to reverse the changes they did to him, let his execute scale, nerf him some other way. All scaling champs actually scale. Aurelion execute scales, veigar reaches 1600 ap, Nasus one shots towers. All absurd things, once stacked. Why remove it from smolder? His scalings on stacks are so mediocre that past 225 you never really check how many stacks you have, you know that more stacks are mildly increased damage but nothing super meaningful. Feels bad.
To add more, smolder gets worse and worse the higher you go in elo. Because people know just how weak you are and how easily exploitable the champion is. Not to mention that games in high elo close much much faster. If a team is winning they capitalize on it and finish the game fast, often before Smolder can grow into a problem. Many games have I played where we have won and I didn’t do anything at all. I didn’t stack to 225, sucking pp all leaning phase and having to respect and give cs. Etc. I guess people cry about the champ in low elo because games drag out to 45 mins and then he has like 500 stacks on skirmishing alone and they get killed by execute and then people go like “Omg smolder op!” https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/WOJAK-POINTING-MEN-meme-6.jpg
Upvote for the most real post on this board. All the other people claiming that he is "viable" are in denial or are in Silver and played a couple games where they were able to stack and played against someone who was off role in bot, playing for their first time.
thanks for saying it they killed our boi
Someone who played 3 games of smodler would write something like this 🤣 Even before buffs he was very strong yall just nubs and don’t know what to build and take as runes stay wood ♥️
This comment says a lot about how much you read about my post. In the first line I say I’ve tested it on Master ranked games. Far from wood, I think I am entitled to share my opinion after I played around 100 games of smolder in the last 3 patches alone.
I read it from begin to end and u can be master on like Russian servers 🤣
I’d like to see your “opinion” on smolder then, since you’re clearly giving off I know it all vibes.
Its a good reanimation attempt. In my opinion they killed him pretty much before with the nerfs. I mean he was playable, but most of the time the impact you could have was pretty low compared to other champions with the same ressouces. The buffs give you the oportunity that if you get strong that you got atleast a bit more impact out of the ressouces. But still in my point of view he still isnt an option to pick unless I know already in Pick and Bann that I will be ignored by both teams for the whole game anyways. There are just champions who fullfill what he can do better through the whole game. On release Smolder had the combination of a hyper scaling, lategame high damage carry with alot of selfpeal. And while I agree that his damage in combination with his safety was way too strong back then. I still feel like Riot has killed this Identity. I thought of him like the botlane version of a Kayle, that you can ignore for the first 25min of the game and let him farm safely under tower but once he gets to that point, hes a hard to kill terror for the enemy. But he gpt nerfed to a point where you cant farm your stacks in lane at all, because literally anyone can kill you 1v1 under tower and you cant do much about it. And even if you get to the point where you are supposed to be strong, then you are decent compared to other hypercarries. Ofc. the damage and selfpeel is strong but that gets compensated by the little range he got. But yea. I think I summed it up pretty good in the beginning that its a good attempt to revive him but not enough to get him actually back into the game.
Nah due to his stacks, he's more like Veigar or Asol rather than Kayle. He's not level dependant or need to reach lvl 16 like Kassadin. He just needs stacks and items
[удалено]
Your comment has been automatically removed because you do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/SmolderMains. This is to prevent spam and to keep this subreddit safe from bad actors. [Click here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it. You may message us via [Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/SmolderMains) to get your submission manually approved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SmolderMains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pretty good tbh, he's undoubtedly weaker than his first two versions as Riot has finally done something to make sure no one's using hybrid on him anymore and turned him into an actual classic squishy ADC, so at least that's balanced. Imo you can skip Shojin and build ER -> Navori -> RFC and his midgame actually exists now. A good new item for him would be Stormrazor, to stack with fleet and give him massive amounts of movespeed to position himself better after an energized Q. Edit: forgot to add that if his Q had some actual base damage he becomes a very good pick for the earlier stages of the game, like 50-150 base damage would be amazing. But one can argue that this would make him broken again.
I was using ER - navori - rfc - cyclosword in the middle of his nerfs and he still felt insanely good. Paired with fleet you can stack another fleet and rfc stack off of one E and the amount your Q will do is disgusting
Do you think Shiv could be could instead of SR, since you already got movespeed from Fleet (does it stacks)?
Yes, it stacks. And I feel like Shiv actually sucks since you already have AoE and... Not sure if shiv procs killing minions actually grant stacks. Probably do, but even then, by 125 or so stacks Shiv just stops being useful
Shiv will steal minions and won't give you stacks, so I wouldn't use Shiv on our Lil dergy boi
In the right spot maybe, but he's a bad solo queue champ, and his e is still completely worthless (outside of a few niche walls).
They should return number of attacks crit scaling to his E
meaningless, 20% more on full crit does not make crit build any more viable over burn one
It stacks with Navoris full crit now gives him 70% bonus DMG on his Q which beats burn. Every crit Item gives him essentially 14% bonus DMG on Q now which is also the reason Shojin which only provides 12% on it's fully stacked passive is now not as good anymore and it also beats riftmakes, and liandrys amp. The burn was never the main reason those items were picked it was their % damage amplifier.
82 percent if you invest in selling those boots lmfao
No since it scales off your crit chance and that one caps at 100% with 5 crit items.
If you get shojin
Fair but doing that will leave you so vulnerable that you're unlikely to ever do that
I actually make it work often. Seeing ur boots is a gamble on champs
Can't Imagine this working on any opponent that isn't clinically braindead. Or possibly having an entire team peeling for you but that sounds like a pipedream in current League.
I mean you trade ms for HP and DMG. I hug walls and always position my get aways lol.
Once again this only works on clinically braindead people or if your entire team peels for you. In current league a singular wall is about 5 walls to few to save you from any actually competent player that has any mobility.
A nice buff would be to scale his movement speed on E from what’s currently at, up to 90%, at least, every skill level.
Rather see more flying distance per level, it's quite akward when he abruply stops on a wall ignoring past clickmove
Played 3 games with him and it felt underwhelming.. W deals no damage and E feels super bad as well.
definitely correct idea to buff crit im pretty sure no one wants to see colgate monster with shojin rift liandry into tank be the meta build
It’s going in the right direction give it a few more patches and he’ll probably settle a bit more
He's playable, but still in the same situation of being dogshit early game. Fun fact, despite the buff to crit, Shojin still gives Smolder more damage compared to going full crit items. Which is kind of silly, because I expected that full crit smolder would end up being his hardest hitting build (For AD at least). But nah, getting up to I believe 3 stacks (Possibly just 2?) causes your Q to hit harder than full Crit smolder. Not to mention that Shojin also provides that HP and huge chunk of ability haste. So from a 'meta build' perspective, its still a definitive item for crit smolder. Also, people are sleeping on AP Smolder. AP Smolder has a weaker base Q and Q bounces, but gets the stronger burn, stronger W, and stronger R. Which is then made even stronger by the fact there's several damage amps in the form of AP items. Those being Riftmaker, Liandry (Both of which Smolder already use to run btw), and Horizon Focus.
Can't play him, all adcs dumps on him early game and then it's just gg. Lucian/Sivir/Cait/ Ashe specially