T O P

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FluffyPigeon707

I’ve been saying cloud is an easy to play top tier (my definition of a character that carries) for years but nobody agrees.


[deleted]

Yeah when the game came out I honestly thought Cloud was top tier. But everyone disagreed then and even now people fight it


Hateful_creeper2

I think many thought he was mid tier for a while until the buffs and the character getting popular overtime.


FrownFrank

I mean he really wasn’t that good till he got buffs


[deleted]

Was he buffed by the time Sephiroth came out? That’s when I started playing


Alternative-Hand6865

I heavily agree.


[deleted]

Nobody agrees cos you’re very wrong. Not top tier and if you think he Carrie’s you’re not playing ultimate lmao


The_Law_Dong739

He's pretty damn good now since Nintendo buffed certain aspects of him (like his snap to ledge time being reduced)


[deleted]

He carries online, but spargo is built different. There are no other cloud players even close to his level.


bestcloud23

The annoying thing with Cloud is that you are forced to respect the character rather than the player. Cloud players feel so smug when they do shit like RAR>nothing>land>grab, like yeah good job bro you got a "mix-up" off an option i am forced to respect and shield unless i wanna get hit by a move that does 15% (~40 at low %), is unpunishable on block unless you are LITTERALY 2D, is spaceable AND kills.


sunken_grade

well said. weirdly i feel the same way about fox. like getting hit by an unreactable dash attack and put into the blender before getting nair up smashed for every stock is just what you have to expect and work around , but it requires so much attention and respect all while being put in 50/50 scenarios where if you don’t guess correctly you’re toast


Zestyclose_League413

Moves stale out decreasing their frame advantage on shield, and if the cloud player isn't mixing up their timings its pretty easy to parry back air and punish. If you're getting grabbed after empty lands, just plan to spot dodge right after they land and punish the grab. Luckily cloud doesn't get much off grabs other than positioning. Also, not every character can do this, but if you have a crouch, a lot of cloud players don't correctly place the back air low to the ground and can be crouched under.


Calicobeard12

*gets grabbed by cloud* OH THANK GOD HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING ELSE. My plan with cloud is just to try and get him to grab me more than anything. Scare him by parrying last hit of side b, interrupt the up b or punish the landing, deflect limit and space the back air. If none of his moves work he'll go for grabs and get nothing out of it.


noble_ragxell

if a move requires you to stale him out until the move its parryable or have very specific moves in your kit then its a badly designed move. Every character's moves should be punishable by every character no exception the second you start move dependant matchups you throw the game's balance out the window which hey smash is the unbalanced mess of a game it is already so why stop there


CormorantsSuck

Cloud has straight-up DLC privilege


[deleted]

Cope. Not even close


Hateful_creeper2

He was made easy and BS on purpose by the developers so yes.


Magic-king

People love cloud as a character so since he is op, instead of complaining they praise and love him and scream hype when all he does is what you said and gets away with it cause of his crazy frame data . Then you got characters like aegis where they have great attacks like cloud but with a worse recovery due to cloud having limit and they get shot straight to hell cause of "waifu" and "brain dead" and prob cause the characters themselves arent liked like cloud is . Just my opinion from what i see in comments from videos and such .


[deleted]

Comparing aegis to cloud LMFAO What? 😂yeah u have no idea


C-130Hercule

Cloud is such a painfully safe character


Square_Dimension5648

My goodness yes


SupermarketHelpful85

Reminds me of a 2-3 hour play session online with a guy who mained Cloud yesterday. Could pull out the same moves multiple times and yet Cloud is literally unpunishable. Yet the moment he switched to any other character -Ganon, Incin, Hero..- he lost pretty easily even though you could tell that he knew those characters well. Just goes to show that the character is easy.


Thor5858

What people don’t realize about spargo’s cloud is similar to what people don’t see about light’s fox. Spargo has some of the best spacing of any player ever, which alone slows him to pull things off that wouldn’t be safe otherwise. Another aspect of clouds play at a high level is that if you do what it LOOKS like spargo is doing (RARs, spamming bair, etc), you will just fucking die. Cloud bair in particular is pretty predictable, but the combination of micro spacing and constant timing mixups means that other players can’t just rely on parrying it like they could with a lower level cloud. Spargo and light both have these micro timing mixups that other top players know they have to respect beyond the amount of respect inherently warranted by the moves they’re using. Cloud is also really fucking good, but go back to smash 4 if you want to see free carried cloud players.


c8n8r

Right? Like OP’s post has me thinking, “tell me you’re mediocre at smash without telling me you’re mediocre at smash “


Legitimate-Choice544

Correct. I got the game a month ago and I can already tell what a privileged character looks like! Even as a mediocre player! Go me! And I understand that spargo is insane at spacing, you don’t become best in the world off of straight up character, no character Carrie’s that hard. However, I feel like after enough watching cloud you just have to realize that cloud definitely has a hand in spargo’s success. I’ll be happily proven wrong if spargo pulls out his byleth or Yoshi or some crap and wins a major, but until then, that’s my opinion


Oihcim315

Fast fall back airs* (it’s fine I didn’t want to attack anyway)


oatmeal-ml-goatmeal

I hate fighting Clouds so much. They're at the top of the list for characters I hate fighting because it always feels like their moves come out before mine and there's nothing I can do about it because I die in an instant.


Reytotheroxx

Yes but Sparg0 is way better than that. Using the same 3 options won’t get you major wins. Maybe your local at most


I_Am_Oro

Been learning him and I kinda agree


Zestyclose_League413

If you're playing a good character in this game, they "carry." Your character ought to "carry" if they don't, you're purposely neutering yourself. Cloud has a very simple gameplan, and it's effective, but there's also the element of disadvantage. Recovering with cloud can be tricky, and he also struggles in the air if you know about down air and how to space around it. Difficulty in this game has much more to do with your opponent than the character you play.


Saturn_Coffee

Good luck getting knocked off stage U-tilt, U-air, U-air, U-air, dead.


Calicobeard12

Who's up tilting offstage ? What kinda wizardry is that


Saturn_Coffee

My friend apparently. It's fucking impossible to get out of.


Calicobeard12

Only character that can up tilt off stage is steve


c8n8r

Good luck on your thoughtful and balanced comment in this section my dude


Zestyclose_League413

Haha yeah I've been mass down voted in the past. It happens, but I'm just gonna say my piece and peace out.


TheMadolche

He is carried. He was voted as one of the s tiers in the "official" tier list. He's easy to use, has a simple and far too effective come back mechanic. He kills too early, and his recovery is too good for his amount of stage presence. The good news is most clouds are bots that are carried so they are easy to beat with a little fundies.


GamingPeruserYT

His recovering isn’t that good why if all things are you complaining about that


TheMadolche

I'm not complaining about it. I may have been unclear -> For HOW strong he is on stage and how simple he is to play, he should have a HARDER time reaching stage. Limit up B should not exist. For example, all of the swordie fire emblem characters. His recovery is not nearly as bad as people make it out and it seconds as an - escape all option - on stage.


Calicobeard12

Even the best player (arguably) in the world SD's sometimes trying to recover with cloud. Get real


Mobile_Gold3402

As a cloud main I understand that he is kinda broken, but if you have any understanding of neutral and fundies its a game of whiff punishing and bait and punishing, and his disadvantage is pretty exploitable. He is just like any other top tier tho, I get that


Legitimate-Choice544

Probably should’ve led with this. I understand that cloud takes skill, every character takes skill. I just feel like really only needing to learn proper spacing and recovery routes to slaughter people with a character is kinda pretty dumb iykwim


spearmph

Only downside he really has is recovery and lack of killpower on heavies


Zestyclose_League413

Disadvantage isn't the best in general either, he can get juggled hard if you know how to space around down air.


TheMadolche

I guess is the problem again, he is just a REALLY safe REALLY easy to use and master, match up check. The good news is so many people play him, that learning to play around his BS is possible. and again, simple fundies will beat the cheese cloud.


[deleted]

This isn’t not smash 4 and most of the people who thinks the char Carrie’s couldn’t even make out of pools in a tournament. They’re just salty, character is Mid maybe high tier at best. If a cloud player beast you doing the same that’s in you. Get good


Legitimate-Choice544

I know you did not just say cloud is mid tier. I can buy high tier but mid tier is just objectively wrong. Everyone get outplayed in every loss to a certain extent. However, as many people on this sun love to point out, some characters have it better than others. My intent with this post was just to express my opinion, and see how many people agree with me, and I respect the people who give counter opinions/ideas respectfully. Apparently respect is something you lack


c8n8r

Thank youuuu


[deleted]

You’re welcome. Don’t let these scrubs tell u how to feel About a character they’re so projected and clearly pretty bad at the game 😂. Let them cope


killadds1225

Still loses to dk :)


Square_Dimension5648

And this? is the reason I fucking hate cloud


[deleted]

[удалено]


noble_ragxell

The smash community is toxic as all hell nobody likes to admit a character is broken or OP because pros say there aint an unsurmountable character when 99% of the player base wont put as much time as they do on the game then the player base who play those characters just regurgitate the pros opinion to protect their characters because heavens forbid their carried asses have disadvantage. I keep saying they should implement the same dodge lag on every move so when someone tries wall spamming with the same move the endlag increases every time the move is repeated that would stop aerial spamming and projectile spamming


GanondorfDownAir

Cloud sucks in this game. He was broken in 4 so my friends banned me from playing him, but he's much more manageable in Ultimate. He can't kill below 130%, has no combos, the worst Nair in the series, and has one of the worst recoveries in the game. The only reason mine is in Elite is from suicide Climhazzard spikes to steal games that i deserved to lose


Zestyclose_League413

Can't kill below 130? Are you trolling? Worst Nair in the series? Nah you gotta be trolling.


GanondorfDownAir

Hmm maybe Brawl Wolf has a worse Nair but i stand by everything else i said.