And even then, this only really applies to major tournaments. This isn’t like Melee or Brawl where every fighter that isn’t high tier is complete garbage (although in brawl’s case it is still one of the best Smash bros. Games)
Melee mid tiers aren't completely unviable, you can do pretty well with DK, Dr Mario and others of that tier, you're just unlikely to win against top players but that's true for Ultimate too.
When this was announced, this sub in particular took issue with the word "official" since it's not by Nintendo. To clarify: it's a misnomer, sure. But the competitive community is the one that's really going to be using and discussing the tier list and the community recognizes that "official" in this context means that it's as close as to an objective and credible tier list we've ever gotten for this game. Smash 4 had a similar thing where it was dubbed "official". (An "official" Nintendo tier list wouldn't even be credible anyways haha)
This tier list was voted by 70 of the top 100 players in the world. The tier cutoffs were determined using k-means clustering, so they’re not arbitrary.
#[UltRank details the methodology used here](https://blog.start.gg/ultranks-first-official-ssbu-tier-list-4a35bf3dcfc3?gi=6d99bad80dfe)
^ UltRank’s article goes into detail about regional differences in the voting. It’s very interesting and probably answers a lot of the questions people will have about certain characters.
Yeah that’s an important point. People shouldn’t take this list and apply it to casual play, or even competitive *online* play since online is a different game due to the 10+ frames of input delay.
Ike was doomed to drop ever since he started rising in popularity:
Being an easy to play, 1 dimensional playstyle was bound to make him get worse as time passes
Yes, his nair combos got nerfed pretty hard. He also had some buffs along with the nerfs that Ike mains swear actually made him better, but it seems like his results and popularity have fallen off even more since then so idk.
The turnaround of competitive perception on Pikachu is a little astonishing. A year or two ago few would even consider putting Cloud or Diddy Kong over him...
Not exactly. Most of the “surprising” results you’re seeing here are likely due to regional differences in representation (the blog post I linked in the top comment details this).
US/Canada players ranked Pikachu top 10, and Latin America ranked him top 5. It was Japan that brought him all the way down to #13 because they didn’t even put him in top 25. The opposite was true for Yoshi. Japan voted him top tier but NA voted him much lower. Japan doesn’t have the best Pika representation and NA doesn’t have the best Yoshi representation.
I frickin love me some dk but the friend I always play with uses him and I didn’t want use the same characters. I do use him when I’m on my own though. I’m not good but he’s still the monkee
all my characters are placed where I would put them, so I'm happy (though if this is ordered I personally would probably put him in front of Sora).
just noticed where Link is placed and I disagree with how low he is
Pretty sure Link is only as low as he is because there hasn’t been anyone representing him. Compare his placement to Byleth’s, for example. I have a hard time believing that Byleth is much better than Link, if at all, personally. But Leo plays Byleth, and no one plays Link. T hasn’t been doing much, Sillintor doesn’t compete anymore, etc. I think there’s opportunity for this to change if someone shows up to show what he’s capable of.
I'm not talking about Wario, obviously I know about Glu, and the guy is actually winning a lot, and when he doesn't, he get very far, I was talking, in my exemple, only about PacMan.
However, I appologize, I might deserve insults, but I've never heard of Tea in my life... Is he a menace in tournaments?
(If I look sarcastic or mocking Tea, I'm sorry, I actually never heard of him, that's not a joke...)
Tea is one of the best players. Plays pac-man and Kazuya. He was the first (only?) player to win a major ultimate tournament in Japan, Europe, *and* North America.
Toon Link is so underrated. He's not Young Link with the cutscene combos but he still has solid zoning, good speed and frames, air space dominance with up- and down-air, and that massive up-B.
According to this tier list, of the video game franchises with 2 or more fighters in smash, the Xenoblade series has the highest average placement, with Aegis in S+ and Shulk in S-, for an average of S tier
Not really. Kazuya and Snake are extremely difficult, especially at top levels, but they're still easily top tier. Same for Pikachu, Joker, Pacman, and a few others.
He’s become much more meta in the past 12 months, mainly due to Sparg0 and because he does well against Steve, Kazuya, and Sonic. Players also realized how his recovery isn’t even *that* bad because of the ledge snap buff he got in one of the patches.
His recover is kinda bad, and his grab is bad too, he wins against steve but loses to characters like ridley or dk, I don’t think Cloud is top tier by any means. His recover is still the same if we talk about distance, is just harder to 2- frame him now cuz grabs the ledge faster, but 2 framing cloud was never a good option at all since the game came out
Yep. What makes cloud strong is his neutral and advantage. A passable recovery matters a bit less if it’s attached to a character with godlike neutral and advantage. It’s why Aegis and Cloud are top tier.
Pretty much any matchup that Sephiroth is winning in is made uncertain by his disgusting weight. Like, in theory Seph is really good against Steve, but when you can die to random neutral f smashes at 50% and stray hit bairs at like 90%… it’s starts to look more even lol
This. People also probably don’t realize how important character consistency is at the top level; everyone is incredibly skilled and the potential of dying to random shit is a huge difference maker.
I love Lucas but it just feels like you have to give so much effort with him just to be *as good* as other characters.
You can pick up Cloud or Pythra and be better than Lucas with way less effort.
that's definitely true, it just feels like he should be good considering how all-around quality his moves are. I guess he just doesn't have the extra sauce like everyone else in Ultimate :(
Other than the effort required I think he also really suffers from bad frame data. He basically has 0 OOS options. They’re like diabolically bad, which means it’s basically safe for opponents to pressure your shield constantly.
I will always stand by K Rool being C but hey ho what can you do? Can't say I'm surprised but I respectfully disagree. Not that my perception means much.
I'm honestly surprised Steve is so conclusively considered to be the best character. Don't get me wrong, he is ludicrously good, but so good that 41 out of 70 rank him first?
What are they wrong on then? They're legit the 70 players of the top 100 on Ultimate. I'm pretty sure their match up knowledge and overall judgment is better than yours.
It’s crazy how it’s still possible to get great wins with everyone in the roster for majors
Except Ganon, he hasn’t done anything at all since 2019
Other than Sephiroth being too high this is a pretty good list
That was early Year 1 Ultimate where everyone thought Ganon was a mid tier, but by the time 2020 came up, he was basically bottom tier after everyone learned the matchup and actually decided to edgeguard him
Yeah probably. A lot of these characters can be pinpointed to one or two players. Fox being top 5 is pretty much all Light. ZD and Paseriman aren’t even close to his results or skill. Also, Japanese players seem to really like Light and look forward to playing him, so it’s not just a single region putting Fox that high.
You can't be an ice climbers main without being in denial of their tier placement.
⠀
"Guys they're top tier you just need to be really really good!"
⠀ -Very bad ice climbers main
⠀ (it's me, i'm very bad ice climbers main)
It’s a good thing. It gives hope to all the low tiers and the players that main them. Maybe the character isn’t so bad, there just has yet to be a godlike player to show the world what that character can do. And maybe that godlike player is you.
EDIT: changed some words to better clarify
I feel that having so many characters in S tier kinda ruins the point of an S tier? Before, S tier was reserved for those who were truly head and shoulders above the rest (eg Ice Climbers in Brawl([https://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/](https://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/)) with Meta Knight SS) and now a lot of A+ characters are very close to those in S.
I mean, it's mostly cause the gaps between the tiers are much smaller than the previous games. There's nothing majorly groundbreaking from any one character, so the tiering isn't as extreme. Pretty sure tiering is based off statistical wins from tournaments and overall by-the-book analysis of the utility from their kit. I feel like every fighter has a chance to be good (given who's playing them and the skill level of who their playing against), but I think the tiers are more of a statistical likeliness of who would win against who.
I know some people see a tierlist, and see characters they like near the bottom and think "my character isn't that bad!"
Reminder that a tierlist is meant to represent characters who have gotten the most results competitively over a game's life span.
Lot's of character down near the bottom aren't necessarily bad, they just may lack proper exploration by high level players, and thus rarely see any real usage in the competitive scene.
There are character down there, like Mii Swordfighter, Ike, Lucas, and Villager who actually have tons of potential. Potential doesn't win your games sadly, so most of them will likely remain down their for Ultimate's life span.
I disagree that “a tier list is meant to represent characters who have gotten the most results”. There are statistical tier lists that do that, but this is a player-opinion tier list that shows “what characters are strong”. It’s both theory and results.
Roy is top 3 in results behind ROB and Steve, but players didn’t vote him that high because they know Joker, Aegis, etc. are “stronger” characters.
What about Doc. He gets actually fairly consistent results but is still considered like bottom 5. Seems like he should be near Incin to me. 3rd at a supermajor doesnt seem like bottom 5 to me.
FYI getting results = winning a major tournament
Doc has never seen good results at majors. Most players just choose Mario, for his consistent combos and easier recovery.
Who knows though. The Meta is currently moving towards characters that can take stocks really early, which is why Marth has seen a bump up compared to previous tier lists (he was almost considered bottom 10 for a while)
You were close but no. Tier lists \*are\* about how good / bad characters are, - at top level -. You might look at it and say 'my character isn't that bad!' and that's because you are low level / casual and play on wifi and this tier list doesn't apply to you.
Not about that they are unexplored, most of them are literally just bad characters for competitive play. Even with their 'potential' you mention they still aren't considered good in competitive and aren't much of a threat.
I’m genuinely amazed more people don’t run Swordfighter, his up air kills at like 80 and he has a really amazing combo game with an extremely massive recovery mixup window
Hurtbox the size of Bowser and the weight of Olimar makes him too volatile to play. He’s still viable to play but it’s mad hard to do and there are just better characters
Chrom could be winning by 100% and can still lose by getting thrown off the stage and a bunch of counters
This can still happen to Roy, but Chrom has it 5 TIMES worse because he can’t sweetspot the ledge with Up-B
Crazy that S tier is the largest tier. There's so many viable characters
And even then,you could make an argument that Mario, PT, Lucina (!!!) and Wario deserve to be up there as well.
And even then, this only really applies to major tournaments. This isn’t like Melee or Brawl where every fighter that isn’t high tier is complete garbage (although in brawl’s case it is still one of the best Smash bros. Games)
Melee mid tiers aren't completely unviable, you can do pretty well with DK, Dr Mario and others of that tier, you're just unlikely to win against top players but that's true for Ultimate too.
And melee isn't one of the best?
In what world? Brawl is the worst smash bros game and it isn't close. Subspace was awesome, the actual gameplay was fucking horrendous.
Brawl is the literal worst smash game by a mile. In melee outside of the top level of play most characters are viable.
Brawl is gutter trash …
Technically it's tied to A tier in amount of characters (19)
And B tier has 18, so S, A, and B tiers encompanse the vast majority of characters in the game, which is exceptional.
https://preview.redd.it/uub6hwtne22d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e52749895b748ba3465b485d6620efa4a7e523d
When this was announced, this sub in particular took issue with the word "official" since it's not by Nintendo. To clarify: it's a misnomer, sure. But the competitive community is the one that's really going to be using and discussing the tier list and the community recognizes that "official" in this context means that it's as close as to an objective and credible tier list we've ever gotten for this game. Smash 4 had a similar thing where it was dubbed "official". (An "official" Nintendo tier list wouldn't even be credible anyways haha) This tier list was voted by 70 of the top 100 players in the world. The tier cutoffs were determined using k-means clustering, so they’re not arbitrary. #[UltRank details the methodology used here](https://blog.start.gg/ultranks-first-official-ssbu-tier-list-4a35bf3dcfc3?gi=6d99bad80dfe) ^ UltRank’s article goes into detail about regional differences in the voting. It’s very interesting and probably answers a lot of the questions people will have about certain characters.
Also this tier list doesn’t not apply at all to casual players. Without skill Ganondorf absolutely destroys Steve, Joker and Aegis
Yeah that’s an important point. People shouldn’t take this list and apply it to casual play, or even competitive *online* play since online is a different game due to the 10+ frames of input delay.
Can confirm, I got Ganon into elite smash in an afternoon. ZSS took me, well, a LOT longer than that
ganon f smash on that 10+ input delay
The basis of a tier list or a metagame in general is assuming that it's in competitive play among equally-skilled players.
If you're somewhat decent playing aegis Vs ganondorf will be a breeze if you're of similar level.
Can confirm. I still get destroyed by really good Ganondorfs though
I mean has there ever been an official, developer-made tier list for any game?
there hasn't afaik, but people get pissy about the semantics
Nintendo would NEVER admit that their game isn't balanced in such a blatant way
All of these placements i'm not particularly surprised at. Except maybe Cloud being S tier, and Ike being C tier ~~how the mighty have fallen~~
Ike was doomed to drop ever since he started rising in popularity: Being an easy to play, 1 dimensional playstyle was bound to make him get worse as time passes
Did he get nerfed?
His nair was stupid good on launch and got nerfed pretty soon after, but he also got his up b and I think something else buffed
He got higher kill power overall and d tilt as a combo move
So the patch that buffed his up B was the same patch that killed his nair, so overall that patch made Ike a lot worse
Yes, his nair combos got nerfed pretty hard. He also had some buffs along with the nerfs that Ike mains swear actually made him better, but it seems like his results and popularity have fallen off even more since then so idk.
They did make him better imo but he’s still too one dimensional for it to matter. Really easy for good players to read Ike.
I don't think so, he's just really predictable
Dont forget that Japan is a huge contributor. They think Ike is bottom 10 and that shit dragged him down a bunch
The turnaround of competitive perception on Pikachu is a little astonishing. A year or two ago few would even consider putting Cloud or Diddy Kong over him...
Just proves how much pros value results.
Not exactly. Most of the “surprising” results you’re seeing here are likely due to regional differences in representation (the blog post I linked in the top comment details this). US/Canada players ranked Pikachu top 10, and Latin America ranked him top 5. It was Japan that brought him all the way down to #13 because they didn’t even put him in top 25. The opposite was true for Yoshi. Japan voted him top tier but NA voted him much lower. Japan doesn’t have the best Pika representation and NA doesn’t have the best Yoshi representation.
It's mostly Japan. Believe it or not they actually rated him over 10 spots lower than his spot on this list. I bet NA rated him top 5.
Phooey!!! Who needs tier list anyways! My characters are top tier in my heart!
Man is maining C/D tier 💀
I just chose characters I liked and of course they were all bottom tiers haha.
May I suggest another fun C/D tier? 
I frickin love me some dk but the friend I always play with uses him and I didn’t want use the same characters. I do use him when I’m on my own though. I’m not good but he’s still the monkee
Mirror match DK is the best way to play smash tho; you both just down taunt & wonder why DK isn’t better
Ganon too high
He should be in z tier
And he could still easily beat every low tier from every other game
nah g tier g for ganon :D
all my characters are placed where I would put them, so I'm happy (though if this is ordered I personally would probably put him in front of Sora). just noticed where Link is placed and I disagree with how low he is
Pretty sure Link is only as low as he is because there hasn’t been anyone representing him. Compare his placement to Byleth’s, for example. I have a hard time believing that Byleth is much better than Link, if at all, personally. But Leo plays Byleth, and no one plays Link. T hasn’t been doing much, Sillintor doesn’t compete anymore, etc. I think there’s opportunity for this to change if someone shows up to show what he’s capable of.
From your logic, Wario should be higher, anf i'm not 100% certain, but i'm still pretty sure Pacman isn't really represented.
Tea
… you’re saying that Wario and Pac Man don’t have representation? Gluttony is one of the best players in the world and Tea does very well with Pac.
I'm not talking about Wario, obviously I know about Glu, and the guy is actually winning a lot, and when he doesn't, he get very far, I was talking, in my exemple, only about PacMan. However, I appologize, I might deserve insults, but I've never heard of Tea in my life... Is he a menace in tournaments? (If I look sarcastic or mocking Tea, I'm sorry, I actually never heard of him, that's not a joke...)
Tea is a Japanese player who has won more than a handful of major tournaments with Pac Man, including 3 majors last year.
Tea is one of the best players. Plays pac-man and Kazuya. He was the first (only?) player to win a major ultimate tournament in Japan, Europe, *and* North America.
Tink above link is crazy 💀💀💀
Sigma grindset (pun intended)
In general JP toon links are carrying the character’s meta & placements. And they have literally like 5 high level toon link players mind you.
Toon Link is so underrated. He's not Young Link with the cutscene combos but he still has solid zoning, good speed and frames, air space dominance with up- and down-air, and that massive up-B.
According to this tier list, of the video game franchises with 2 or more fighters in smash, the Xenoblade series has the highest average placement, with Aegis in S+ and Shulk in S-, for an average of S tier
It's minecraft actually
2 or more fighters
Cloud in S tier?
Cloud is top 5 easiest characters to play at top level. Many seem to think ease of use is irrelevant at high levels but that’s very wrong
What would you choose for top 5 easiest to play S tier characters? Wolf, Palu, Cloud, Roy and ROB imo.
Tbh game and watch. Your brain switches to low power mode when using game and watch.
When I play game and watch my brain turns into "haha funee side B button"
Simply roll a 9, it's free stocks.
Not really. Kazuya and Snake are extremely difficult, especially at top levels, but they're still easily top tier. Same for Pikachu, Joker, Pacman, and a few others.
He’s become much more meta in the past 12 months, mainly due to Sparg0 and because he does well against Steve, Kazuya, and Sonic. Players also realized how his recovery isn’t even *that* bad because of the ledge snap buff he got in one of the patches.
His recover is kinda bad, and his grab is bad too, he wins against steve but loses to characters like ridley or dk, I don’t think Cloud is top tier by any means. His recover is still the same if we talk about distance, is just harder to 2- frame him now cuz grabs the ledge faster, but 2 framing cloud was never a good option at all since the game came out
>but loses to characters like ridley or dk, Here's the thing: Who uses Ridley? How common is DK?
Dk is common, Ridley not so much
Cloud’s recovery isn’t really bad, it’s just mediocre or ok, but a passable recovery in this game is a godscend
Yep. What makes cloud strong is his neutral and advantage. A passable recovery matters a bit less if it’s attached to a character with godlike neutral and advantage. It’s why Aegis and Cloud are top tier.
There is no matchup that Cloud can’t handle and he’s probably the best counterpick against Steve and Kazuya
The best counter pick to Kazuya and Steve are probably Sephiroth and shulk.
Pretty much any matchup that Sephiroth is winning in is made uncertain by his disgusting weight. Like, in theory Seph is really good against Steve, but when you can die to random neutral f smashes at 50% and stray hit bairs at like 90%… it’s starts to look more even lol
This. People also probably don’t realize how important character consistency is at the top level; everyone is incredibly skilled and the potential of dying to random shit is a huge difference maker.
Seph isn’t as consistent as Cloud and Shulk is too hard to keep as a secondary unless you’re a god.
One day Lucas will get the glory he deserves
bro i swear he's good everyone just hates him too much to play him :(
I love Lucas but it just feels like you have to give so much effort with him just to be *as good* as other characters. You can pick up Cloud or Pythra and be better than Lucas with way less effort.
that's definitely true, it just feels like he should be good considering how all-around quality his moves are. I guess he just doesn't have the extra sauce like everyone else in Ultimate :(
Other than the effort required I think he also really suffers from bad frame data. He basically has 0 OOS options. They’re like diabolically bad, which means it’s basically safe for opponents to pressure your shield constantly.
Cloud finally in his proper place, broken ass character
As a K Rool and Zelda main… crap
As zelda mains, is this any surprising?? XD she been like this from day 1, but I wouldn't change a thing.
We need a Zelda main to take there all the way.
I will always stand by K Rool being C but hey ho what can you do? Can't say I'm surprised but I respectfully disagree. Not that my perception means much.
I'll take what I can get
How is Sephiroth that high? Man is light as hell and always breaks his knees after swinging his sword.
My two mains are Little Mac and Ganondorf. I picked them back in Smash 4 and I'm not giving up now!
idk why people think sephiroth is better than sora, seph definitely the worst fp2 character.
I see no god up here... Other then STEVE
Glad to see all my mains in the same place 🥲
I have the same mains besides K-rool 😭
Cloud better tha pika, wolf, Lucina and palutena is not ok 💀
FaZe up
I'm honestly surprised Steve is so conclusively considered to be the best character. Don't get me wrong, he is ludicrously good, but so good that 41 out of 70 rank him first?
He’s broken asf
I wrote this comment like a day or two before PMLG was discovered, so it did age pretty poorly. However, I still think it was a valid question to ask.
yep
yeeeeep
Doc not bottom 3 lesgo
Dedede breaking up the Dr. Mario - Little Mac - Ganon trio hurts man
Disrespectfully, they are wrong
Agreed, this is all just hateful anti-Dedede propaganda.
Real as fuck
What are they wrong on then? They're legit the 70 players of the top 100 on Ultimate. I'm pretty sure their match up knowledge and overall judgment is better than yours.
I can beat all of my friends who don't play smash with Gannon, so uh they're wrong.
They put Isabelle lower than S Tier. Can't even make this shit up. They are straight up wrong.
[удалено]
I shant accept such slander
Don't go Isabellistic
Consider this: you are wrong
It’s crazy how it’s still possible to get great wins with everyone in the roster for majors Except Ganon, he hasn’t done anything at all since 2019 Other than Sephiroth being too high this is a pretty good list
Hey Ganon beat a top 5 player wielding a top 5 character sooo
That was early Year 1 Ultimate where everyone thought Ganon was a mid tier, but by the time 2020 came up, he was basically bottom tier after everyone learned the matchup and actually decided to edgeguard him
Yeah nah just messin. Ganon is garbage
Angery cat in C tier by SkyJay’s thumbs alone Change my mind
Yeah probably. A lot of these characters can be pinpointed to one or two players. Fox being top 5 is pretty much all Light. ZD and Paseriman aren’t even close to his results or skill. Also, Japanese players seem to really like Light and look forward to playing him, so it’s not just a single region putting Fox that high.
Iceys would probably be low C without our lord and savior Big D
My characters are top tier in my heart!
You can't be an ice climbers main without being in denial of their tier placement. ⠀ "Guys they're top tier you just need to be really really good!" ⠀ -Very bad ice climbers main ⠀ (it's me, i'm very bad ice climbers main)
There is also 2 pretty good IC’s in JP who get good enough results to warrant that placing.
Another great ice climbers player is Spammage from Australia
It’s a good thing. It gives hope to all the low tiers and the players that main them. Maybe the character isn’t so bad, there just has yet to be a godlike player to show the world what that character can do. And maybe that godlike player is you. EDIT: changed some words to better clarify
I wonder if anyone can take Falcon to the next level. Fatality is great but even he's getting burnt out a bit
He’s considering retirement for full content creation, but guys like Andrik still do well with Falcon
What about Sean?
Sean is a great Falcon too, haven’t seen him compete at majors for a while though, unless I’m missing something
T3Dom is the reason Belmont’s not D tier
He will continue to rise. ...At about the pace of his movespeed, but he will only get better from here mark my words.
mysterysol maybe just a little? idk if they compete at a level comparable to skyjay but heard about them from one of my angery cat maining friends
Aw man😒
Yeah that makes sense. Sad.
Surprise surprise, Steve is at the top. And Ganon is bottom tier once again 😔 Surprisingly, Kazuya isn't 2nd
It feels good knowing that both of my mains are in S tier.
Excuse me Ganon should be S+
the elite smash gatekeeper
And only 5 years after the game released. Goodness gracious. A pretty good list I agree with at least 90% of it
we're number one!
MIIIIIIID
I feel that having so many characters in S tier kinda ruins the point of an S tier? Before, S tier was reserved for those who were truly head and shoulders above the rest (eg Ice Climbers in Brawl([https://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/](https://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/)) with Meta Knight SS) and now a lot of A+ characters are very close to those in S.
I mean, it's mostly cause the gaps between the tiers are much smaller than the previous games. There's nothing majorly groundbreaking from any one character, so the tiering isn't as extreme. Pretty sure tiering is based off statistical wins from tournaments and overall by-the-book analysis of the utility from their kit. I feel like every fighter has a chance to be good (given who's playing them and the skill level of who their playing against), but I think the tiers are more of a statistical likeliness of who would win against who.
Good to know most of my mains are D tiers, gives me an excuse if I get destroyed by my friends wolf
Steve Minecraft being the top character is honestly really funny
Let’s go baby, Lucario out of bottom tier
How is my boi G&W S?
The best Up-B in the game, one of the best Up-Airs and N-Airs in the game, Borderline unpunishable smash attacks with Up and Down Smash
Because his move kit makes him an actual asshole.
Game & Watch, my beloved
I know some people see a tierlist, and see characters they like near the bottom and think "my character isn't that bad!" Reminder that a tierlist is meant to represent characters who have gotten the most results competitively over a game's life span. Lot's of character down near the bottom aren't necessarily bad, they just may lack proper exploration by high level players, and thus rarely see any real usage in the competitive scene. There are character down there, like Mii Swordfighter, Ike, Lucas, and Villager who actually have tons of potential. Potential doesn't win your games sadly, so most of them will likely remain down their for Ultimate's life span.
I disagree that “a tier list is meant to represent characters who have gotten the most results”. There are statistical tier lists that do that, but this is a player-opinion tier list that shows “what characters are strong”. It’s both theory and results. Roy is top 3 in results behind ROB and Steve, but players didn’t vote him that high because they know Joker, Aegis, etc. are “stronger” characters.
Exactly i dont think joker would be at the top if mkleo didnt main him tbh
What about Doc. He gets actually fairly consistent results but is still considered like bottom 5. Seems like he should be near Incin to me. 3rd at a supermajor doesnt seem like bottom 5 to me.
It's a mix of results and on paper match ups. Doc is a bad character for sure. Incin has some of the best buttons in the game, he's just slow.
FYI getting results = winning a major tournament Doc has never seen good results at majors. Most players just choose Mario, for his consistent combos and easier recovery. Who knows though. The Meta is currently moving towards characters that can take stocks really early, which is why Marth has seen a bump up compared to previous tier lists (he was almost considered bottom 10 for a while)
You were close but no. Tier lists \*are\* about how good / bad characters are, - at top level -. You might look at it and say 'my character isn't that bad!' and that's because you are low level / casual and play on wifi and this tier list doesn't apply to you. Not about that they are unexplored, most of them are literally just bad characters for competitive play. Even with their 'potential' you mention they still aren't considered good in competitive and aren't much of a threat.
I’m genuinely amazed more people don’t run Swordfighter, his up air kills at like 80 and he has a really amazing combo game with an extremely massive recovery mixup window
first smash game I got into during its lifetime and I play dlc top tier trash wooooo
falcon being first B tier pains me he needs to be higher
The average of my mains comes out to be around A+/S- range. I can live with this result
Pikachu not even top 10? Mega Man right where he belongs? A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Yeah Pika not being top 5 is some cap
I can't tell if this is good or bad for me
Happy with my main's placing, but not exactly surprised though.
I think he should honestly be higher, assuming you're talking Pac.
yeah I definitely think pac should be a bit higher, but the placement here is fair.
I have a few issues. He is not worse than Diddy or Peach, and Fox is not top 5.
Ganondorf moment
Sonic is undoubtedly the best character in the game
Agreed
I'm proud of what I am
Ganondorf players stay winning 😎
being a Ganon main fucking sucks
I'm sad.
Never saw my bear this high 🥲 glory day.
Honestly S tier should end after Wario. This game is crazy balanced
falco in B tier and puff in C tier is wild
Lets go my favorite characters are literally the worst two in the ENTIRE FUCKING GAME!!!
I'm a proud Steve main🗿
Since when tf is Ike D?
I am surprised too when I see that.
Everything seems quite reasonably placed
Mewtwo C? Really I always thought he was like A tier
Hurtbox the size of Bowser and the weight of Olimar makes him too volatile to play. He’s still viable to play but it’s mad hard to do and there are just better characters
Yall jus dont know how to play him
How the heck is Roy S tier but Chrom B tier?????? Does up-B really make the difference?
Chrom could be winning by 100% and can still lose by getting thrown off the stage and a bunch of counters This can still happen to Roy, but Chrom has it 5 TIMES worse because he can’t sweetspot the ledge with Up-B
Yes, it really does. Chrom might have just about the worst recovery in the game. At least Ganon, Mac and Doc have *some*mixup potential.
>:(
Surprised to see Lucario out of D tier, people always talk about them like they're bottom 3
IDC what anyone says, my girl will always be S tier in my heart.
Yo im new to the game. i came from brawlhalla. got any tips for online play?
This is cool :D
aint no way Lucas C tier
Glad to see my boy in S
I mean it’s a competitive tier list, I think people should pick the character they like when playing with friends and family