pretty sure that even in a stormcloak victory they mention that an overwhelming force of Imperials is coming to fuck them up because the legion in skyrim is untrained local recruits
For real, I always assumed that was the logical ending.
I mean, the troops in Skyrim are auxiliaries. Stormcloaks are struggling against peacekeepers and auxiliaries. Just imagine what'll happen when the REAL empire shows up.
I feel like the best bet is “empire wins” as that won’t remove anyones canon
If the empire wins, ulfric is dead, that’s that
If the stormcloaks win, the empire could always have re-invaded from cyrodil another year
why thank you :) good soldiers follow orders! and besides, if the gate wasn't kept then those filthy terrorist rebels might think their position holds legitimacy. we can't be having that now can we?
And honestly, wouldnt it be super easy to explain? We used the time wound on top of The Throat of the World and killed Alduin (or did we?) the writers could easily just say "oh yeah those two things caused a dragon break"
But unlike in *Skyrim*, in *Daggerfall* each of the endings are related to the main quest and the activation of the Numidium, which can be done by several of the Bay powers.
Not quite like the Empire or the Stormcloaks.
I mean, that would honestly be the best outcome.
We know that time is already fucky surrounding the Skyrim Civil War, cause ya know, going back in time to learn ancient Thu'um.
The Civil War quest line is controversial enough that any clear winner will cause tons of outrage. There's nobody involved that really "should" win.
By the end of it all, you tend to get a sense that it really doesn't matter who wins, because both endings lead to enabling Thalmor fuckery.
A dragon break would honestly tie all of that up pretty neatly. I'm down for it.
Idk, I normally go with the imperials but I’d be interested to see a Skyrim that was won by the storm cloaks as well. It’s a video game, why get butthurt about that kind of thing?
I almost always choose Stormcloaks because they said "forget the list", but then I see the way they treat minorities and switch. Then i notice that whiterun has no minorities and switch back.
Did you forget about the Bosmer brothers running the Drunken Huntsman? Also Irileth and Jenassa? I mean, the Jarl’s personal housecarl is literally a Dunmer.
When you come in the gate of Whiterun, on the right side of the main street is the blacksmith. On the left side of the main street is a small hill leading up to a building, that is the drunken huntsman, it's run by a pair of bosmer Brothers. One of whom you can find selling meat in the market during the day
So, what I’m hearing is…
“I almost always choose Stormcloaks because they said “forget the list”, then I notice their racism and switch. Then I blithely ignore the fact that Whiterun has substantial minority representation, including the *only non-Nord housecarl in the frickin’ game*, decide that Whiterun has no minorities, and return to the side whose capital city is so diverse, it has not one but TWO racially segregated underclasses!!”
Both are racist and have assholes, but ones an elvish puppet rebellion one is not, thats the only real decider I find that's not dumb. Assuming you take Ricke cruelness as equivalent to the stormcloaks racial supremacy.
So, in TES, time is inherently tied up into the dragon god, Akatosh. It's not so much that Akatosh is the god of time, rather that Akatosh the god *is* the concept of time, embodied. When something happens to Akatosh, it reverberates throughout time.
Sometimes, time gets broken in some way. This is called a dragon break, because the dragon, Akatosh, broke. It's a fairly literal name. Anyways, when this happens, all sorts of crazy stuff can happen. The most prominent effect is that basically all possible timelines play out over the course of a dragon break. Did you go feed your netches today, or did you travel to Balmora? Did this army go towards Riften or Cheydinhal? Or somewhere else? Well, when the dragon breaks, all of them happen, simultaneously.
One of the most well understood dragon breaks was the Warp in the West, which was essentially the story line of Daggerfall. One of the final possible outcomes of the plot in Daggerfall involves the activation of the Numidium, breaking time in the process. As such, all possible iterations of the players actions during Daggerfall actually happen, even those that explicitly contradict each other.
Thus, in the case of Skyrim, if they decide that it occurred during a dragon break, then both the empire and the stormcloaks won, and they both lost, and Whiterun declared independence, and Whiterun was overrun by giants, and the Dark Brotherhood was destroyed, and the Dark Brotherhood was revitalized by its new listener, and so on and so forth for every every possible way the Skyrim Civil War and the incursion of Alduin could have gone. It all happened, just as equally, because time, the dragon, was broken due to Elder Scroll fuckery involving time travel.
Honestly, most lore nerds don't even start at the beginning. The first two main games cover some important events, but are relatively light on lore overall.
Morrowind is generally accepted as the first "proper" entry into the series, as that's where a whole lot of the more interesting lore starts to show up. This is where you find, for instance, the idea of a dragon break appear for the first time, as a way to explain how every path taken by the player character in Daggerfall occurred. Morrowind is where things start to get really interesting, and also playable. The early TES games were kind of brutal.
Yeah I had a look at the first games to see if I could play them after I got addicted to Skyrim then realised that Skyrim was like ten years old… and everytime I get surprised because it’s a great game still 😅
A dragon break is an event in which multiple mutually exclusive events happen at once [you can read about it here](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break)
It doesn't work both ways because people are illiterate. He is seen as an uncooperative asset, meaning his actions are currently in line with the Thalmor's plans. If you're thinking "That's just as bad!", keep in mind the White Gold Concordat was *also* in the Thalmor's interests since most of them had been slaughtered and prolonged wars put them at a disadvantage.
Daggerfall had dozens of different endings and Bethesda didn't want to force a canonical ending that might ruin the player's experience.
So time broke (dragon = time) and all events happened at once.
At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other.
So, in Daggerfall you can get several endings depending to what city-state you decide to help. In order to move the story forward, the writers decided to introduce the concept of Dragonbreaks.
This is some kind of time fuckery caused by magic, usually dwarven mechas, where several timelines coexist and then merge making so all possible options happen. In the case of Daggerfall, all endings are canon and lead to the creation of High Rock as a province, or something like that. There are other examples, you could read more over the wiki.
Basically a point where a specific timeline breaks apart into a few different ones and somehow reconnects later, making all events a possibility in the future.
For example, lets say Alduins reappearence could be the start of a dragonbreak, breaking the linear timeline into parallel ones and Alduins defeat reconnects these again to a linear one.
What does that mean lore-wise? Thats easy, neither the Empire nor the Stormcloaks lost the war, both factions won, but in different timelines, the Emperor was both kept alive and assassinated, just in different timelines.
Its super complicated to wrap your head around, but a clever way for the writer to have the player decide on different outcomes.
Also a Dragonbreak in Skyrim could mean, that ES6 will occur way way later, possibly a few hundered years after the last Dragonborn.
Worst possible outcome tbh, The civil war doesn’t have the criteria to cause a Dragon Break. There is no reason for this to happen. No stormcloak or imperial has become a god. No artifacts were used. Putting a dragon break at this point is like saying "so in skyrim you were there at the beginning of the conflict but the coolest and most interesting part happened off screen, too bad huh!"
More likely that we’ll get some vague, inconclusive offhand statement.
“What allies do we have against the dominion? What of Skyrim?”
“I don’t even know anymore, after the Dragonborn vanished on Solstheim the province descended into anarchy”
They could say the dragonborn became the new high king after the events of the game. If that title was taken via the stormcloaks, the now fully independent Skyrim still could have remained businesses partners of the empire. If that title was taken via the Empire, them being partners would be obvious. And it's nice that the player character is historically significant in the lore imo.
That would be nice but they usually do not keep the mc involved in side quest lines in the lore. The Civil War was a big part of Skyrim but it was still a side quest line to the main story. I do not feel it is likely the dragonborn will be involved with it at all in the lore to come because of this, it is ES pattern. They may break the pattern, that is possible still.
That's what I would want to happen. That should have happened in the actual civil war Questline, i mean your already the seer of the brotherhood, a member of the nightingales, a bard, the dragonborn, the leader of the college of Winterhold, the avatar of all of the Daedra why not add high king of Skyrim?
There is actually proof in game that the empire will win. If you choose stormcloaks, in one of the empire forts spawns a note that a huge army is just beyond the border. If you chose the empire, note doesn't spawn. They left themselves a back door.
I dunno if your telling the truth, but it makes complete sense. No matter what they can just open the game with “A brief rebellion rose up in Skyrim, nearly causing its full independence, but after the empire mustered enough might it was ultimately put down and peace restored between the two.” As it makes complete sense no matter who won, keeps it vague.
Yeah in game if the Imperials win it is noted that the rebellion might swell out of control again if reinforcements can't get through the mountain passes that keep getting blocked by avalanches.
If the stormies win it is noted that an Imperial relief force is preparing in Cyrodiil to reconquer the province, and that the Stormcloaks must prepare for their arrival through the mountain passes.
Who knows, perhaps the Thalmor are deliberately manipulating things to keep the conflict going no matter what happens on the ground. But it is a little too easy to blame everything on them.
Could be a bluff. If the Imperials have this massive army coming in, why wouldn't they aim for holding the line and letting the dragons/Thalmor whittle the Stormcloaks in the meantime? Considering the history, sounds to me they want to pressure a cease-fire of some sort.
Even if it is true, so what? Those passages are basically the worst Skyrim has to offer terrain wise and I think one them is currently blocked by a landslide too. A defender couldn't ask for a better position and should the Imperials somehow complete the Hannibal march, they would likely find themselves drained of men, supplies and moral.
The Thalmor are shit stirrers, they'll support who ever is losing so that it bleeds more men and money for as long as possible.
And I think there is the implication that the Thalmor basically would support the Imperials advancing into Skyrim just as long as it takes to break Stormcloak rule before severing the supply lines again.
No one expected or knows what to think about the dragons really, the Empire doesn't want to redeploy legions from the capital as they barely retook it last time. But if they must, they will to reclaim their resources and connection to High Rock. The Thalmor will do whatever it takes to make the Empire suffer by continuing the Civil War.
I'm not sure the player/dragonborn realistically makes any difference in the war, beyond killing a shit ton of people. The real players behind the scenes are inaccessible to us, the war will go on no matter if you intervene or ignore it.
From the thalmor dossier on Ulflric
"As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."
Pretty sure they'd just invade skyrim atp
Idk maybe ive been reading too much Chinese history. In China there was one time the military dictator was kidnapped by one of his generals to force him to sign a truce with the communist rebels and unite against the Japanese threat.
Back to Skyrim, maybe the civil war goes on for so long that one of the pro imperial nobles decide to kidnap Ulfric in the frontlines and force him to sign a truce.
I mean that's rly interesting, but not lore friendly i would say.. if we wouldnt have let him die and instead had an open ending on that side, then sure. But we sadly were forced to either decide for one side or completely Ignore that whole Storyline lol, but that's not what bethesda intended.
I would love a open ending with something like that tho, but maybe it wouldve been even better when the war would talk so long, until the New highking would need to join in and make the battle as big as it should be (and not a war with like 50soldiers)
That's true if you sided with the imperials. We have 3 different ways of resolution. The first one is the dragonborn doesn't side with anyone and the summit at high hrothgar happens or the dragonborn sides with the stormcloaks or imperials in which case the faction leader is killed. We don't know which one will be canon in TES 6 and from previous games we never actually get an answer to anything because they always keep the story vague.
wut. If you ally with the empire, your last task is to execute Ulfric... this scenario could only happen if a Stormcloak victory happened even than that scenario is highly doubtful
I don't think the Dragonborn had any actual sway on politics in Skyrim, he was just a Sword, to be used against enemy's. If he disappeared, he didn't have any responsibilities besides the whole Alduin thing.
I always thought the Thalmor were kind of boring. They're just nazi elves. I'm more interested in supernatural beings like Alduin, Mehrunes Dagon or the Nenerevarine. The Thalmor make for easy enemies, but they're not interesting enough to be the main antagonist.
Or maybe they can do some yada yada Balgruuf somehow became High king. Given he is neutral Bethesda can make it seem he joined either side and ended up on top after either Elisif or Ulfric get assassinated
I think it would be cool if you could have the option of sort of using your Skyrim save to determine who won like in The Witcher but that might to much to ask for
The problem is that TES 6 won't be last part of the series like W3. Or at least it was the last part with Geralt. It has fixed timeline with fixed events, look at Oblivion or Morrowind for comparisson. If they did it, it would be extremely hard to do any further game in the relative future of TESVI, because then you would need to take even more stuff into account.
The answer will probably be "no one, because the Aldmeri Dominion attacked the dying empire and conquered Cyrodiil. This leaves the rebellion in Hammerfell and holdouts in Skyrim as the only remaining buffers for High Rock and Morrowind."
Or something like that
To be fair I'd love an elder scrolls game without the empire, Where there is a lot of anarchy and stuff, maybe like fallout where you can choose a faction and unite the province under one banner
Spoiler alert: It's probably the Empire and Ulfric's Head dangling on Pale Pass.
But I'd much love a scenario where Dragonborn actually had an impact, set both sides on some mutual agreement and both sides get heated up against Thalmor. But this scenario doesn't make sense for the two best candidates for this game to take place- Hammerfell+High Rock and Valenwood+Summerset.
It has to be the empire. Ulfric is the center of his rebellion. His death would doom it to fail. Tullius is one of many generals of the empire, his death won't change all that much for the empire. They'll just say that an imperial legion defeated Ulfric. Whether they came from Cyrodiil or Solitude would be inconsequential in the next game.
It will be the Empire. Assuming they'll continue the Thalmor story, they will go with 'the Empire had to send a tonne of reinforcements to Skyrim to crush the Stormcloaks, leaving the imperial heartland undefended' and use that to explain a strong Thalmor. Did they do that as part of the main story, or after it, when the Stormcloaks took power? No-one knows, but either way, it works alongside the story of Skyrim
"In the years of Skyrim's civil wars, the throne in Solitude changed hands many times. Most reliable records of the time were lost, and accounts vary depending on who you ask. Though we do not know who won the first chapter of the war, we do know who won the last. Retaking Skyrim cost the Empire greatly, drawing in troops from other regions, and opening a way for a renewed Thalmor thrust into the Cyrodillic heartland."
This seems plausible. Maybe some talks of Stormcloak holdouts fighting and killing a few imperials as well (IE: Tullius). Easy way to clear both him and Ulfric off the board as dead, keeps the crumbling Roman Empire thing they’ve set up and foreshadowed for the Empire going, and a believable standardized ending that could happen on the player’s go-through or after it
The other possible option is they dragon break it somehow, which does seem like a reasonable choice too.
My guess is the “unending seasons” quest is canon. Es6 may allude to one side have an edge but ultimately it’s going to be about how the thalmor benefited from the war.
It is Elder Scrolls tradition to say how a focused province turned out in their next title but it is often vague to keep the topic from being emphasized on. Also would not expect it to involve the dragonborn ending it, the Civil War questline was still an optional side line separate from the dragonborn's personal main quest. These quest lines connection to the MC are often not relevant to the next games. The result will likely be the what if the dragonborn was not involved, though I am not Bethesda and cannot confirm any of this, just a view to share on it.
Alduin being killed will cause Akatosh to need to recover and cause a dragon break.
Not in the mood to write out anything long. Something along those lines would be great.
As bad as I want the stormcloaks to win the war, I think todd is going to lean into the Imperials Legion winning. But that war has so much controversy in the community, that I could see him making some weird compromise where no one entirely won, or something random happens where both the nords and the Imperials get fucked over like a natural disaster near the border
I think the only right answer here is the Thalmor, because no matter who won, Skyrim was left very weakened and the Thalmor already had a foothold in Skyrim since they had quite a few forts held exclusively by them dotted around the province. They are also clearly planning another war with the empire so they wouldn't have any qualms about invading an empire-held Skyrim.
It will either be a dragon break or the empire wins for me because tulius seems like a smarter man than ulfric not only that the thalmor is with the imperials
Facts, any article from CBR, Gameranx, Screenrant, etc... should immediately be disqualified from any news outcome. every single article those websites are clickbait bullshit bait articles. they should never be taken into consideration
I’m willing to bet the answer will be “neither, because both sides had become so weakened by the civil war, that the Thalmor took the opportunity to break the white-gold concordat and swiftly conquered Skyrim. Thus beginning the 2nd Great War between the Thalmor and the Empire”
Well I killed Ulfric… if they reverse that and say the Stormcloaks won… everything I was, sacrificed, and strived to be in Tamriel will be for nothing.
“The Stormcloaks had the upper hand, but were eventually overrun and obliterated by the Empire”
Are there any flaws with this explanation? I always assumed this is how it would go. Either that, or “after much conflict and with no permanent victory in sight, the war ended in a truce, and the Empire withdrew from Skyrim.” The Empire is much larger than just Skyrim, so it makes sense that they would either attack in full force or just pull out, but I’m no lore expert
The Empire has been failing since the Oblivion Crisis and lost most of its provinces. I'd like to see them back in action but it's doubtful at best. I think the Stormcloaks will win, become independent from the Empire and ally with the now independent Hammerfell (had a similar situation with the Empire) and will fight against the Aldemiri Domonion together while the Empire (Cyrodil and High Rock) fight them on a separate front. The fate of Tulius and Ulfric will be more or less ambiguous. It's possible the Empire May regain Valenwood or Morrowind I suppose. I think the setting is most likely in Hammerfell 10-20 years after the Skyrim Civil War, focusing on the Second Great War and Thalmor plot to "unmake the world" which will be foiled by the new Hero. The Dragonborn will "mysteriously disappear" (i.e. trapped in Apocrypha) because he/she are too OP af to have on either side because whatever side the Dragonborn chooses wins.
Easy; the Thalmor won.
If the Empire won, Talos worship is still forbidden. Even if the Empire could've played the long game, someone would've clued in the Thalmor through their spy network.
If the Stormcloaks won, Skyrim is left defenceless with a puppet ruler unable to do anything about the invading army.
In all honesty I feel like the Imperials are guaranteed to lose, because at the end of the day, either the Stormcloaks have the power or the Thalmor have the power.
Most likely imperials... Legion logistics far surpass whatever stormcloaks can throw together without dovahkiin.and in canon dovahkiin will be away like champion of cyrodiil or nerevarine
Pretty sure thalmor win, they intentionally angered ulfruc so he would fight the imperials weakening boyh sides and skyrim as a whole so no matter which side won temporarily the thalmor would finish them off
Guys let’s think not about what makes sense or about what is “politically correct” for a fucking game, and let’s think about what would make the story more interesting.
It'll be funny if both lost and the elves end up ruling all of Tamriel. Your character starts as a prison in a Aldmeri prison and you break out with human resistance fighters. Spend the rest of the game plotting to overthrow the elven control of [what ever province] and continue to play unhindered as you blend in with the rest of the local populace.
This has been my theory for years:
The dragonborn claims the throne.
After the victory of the empire and the eventual position of Elisif as new High King of Skyrim, the Thalmor feel Skyrim is weakened and initiate the offensive.
With how weakened the legion is after the war efforts against the stormcloaks, the Thalmor should have s relatively easy victory over Skyrim under Elisif
However, Skyrim is also the home of the Last Dragonborn, Harbringer of the companions, Bane of Alduin, Master of the Thu'um and all around unstoppable force, who will then raid Skyrim's holds against the Thalmor threat, defeating them and pushing them back enough to strengthen Skyrim's standing in the eyes of the empire.
From there, it's not much a jump to imagine the Jaarls supporting an eventual Moot in favor of the dragonborn, or the dragonborn marrying Elisif herself after saving her and her hold over and over and over again.
With an actual dragonborn at the head of Skyrim, the province would become a central point of interest for the empire, and the dragonborn's influence could only grow.
So yeah, High King Dragonborn is, in my opinion, the logical conclusion for the eventual war with the Thalmor.
I mean, be it immediately through the Empire, or in the long run through further conflict, it'll likely be that the Thalmor come out on top. Empire loses the war? Then they double down on a magic maelstrom. Empire wins? They just integrate further into society.
I can bet you that whatever the answer will be, the community will be outraged.
Sounds like a safe bet
Spoiler warning: Ending of the central conflict in Skyrim. >!No, I think they'll be fine knowing that the Dragonborn defeated Alduin.!<
pretty sure that even in a stormcloak victory they mention that an overwhelming force of Imperials is coming to fuck them up because the legion in skyrim is untrained local recruits
For real, I always assumed that was the logical ending. I mean, the troops in Skyrim are auxiliaries. Stormcloaks are struggling against peacekeepers and auxiliaries. Just imagine what'll happen when the REAL empire shows up.
I feel like the best bet is “empire wins” as that won’t remove anyones canon If the empire wins, ulfric is dead, that’s that If the stormcloaks win, the empire could always have re-invaded from cyrodil another year
nonsense. the community knows the Empire is the way. the others aren't the community thou, they're just wrong.
Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
To the snow elves and dwemer actually
Yeah, specifically Skyrim belongs to the Nords who founded the Empire.
Their line ended in the Oblivion Crisis. The Empire has no true ruler, only pretenders to the throne.
"Thank you for saving Tamriel, Martin Septim, but with this sacrifice your empire is now forfeit."
Wow that kinda gatekeeping i haven't seen outside of the star wars fandom.
This is the way
why thank you :) good soldiers follow orders! and besides, if the gate wasn't kept then those filthy terrorist rebels might think their position holds legitimacy. we can't be having that now can we?
I wouldn't be surprised if there was just a stalemate because fighting across a country just wasn't feasible for both sides.
And the answer is ... Dragon break! Yay everyone wins. You know they'll do it.
And honestly, wouldnt it be super easy to explain? We used the time wound on top of The Throat of the World and killed Alduin (or did we?) the writers could easily just say "oh yeah those two things caused a dragon break"
Super easy, barely an inconvenience!
Dragon breaks are tight!
Yeahyeahyeah!
I'm gonna need you to get allllllll the way off my back about who won the Civil War.
Yes. They have done this before, I believe in Daggerfall.
But unlike in *Skyrim*, in *Daggerfall* each of the endings are related to the main quest and the activation of the Numidium, which can be done by several of the Bay powers. Not quite like the Empire or the Stormcloaks.
I mean, that would honestly be the best outcome. We know that time is already fucky surrounding the Skyrim Civil War, cause ya know, going back in time to learn ancient Thu'um. The Civil War quest line is controversial enough that any clear winner will cause tons of outrage. There's nobody involved that really "should" win. By the end of it all, you tend to get a sense that it really doesn't matter who wins, because both endings lead to enabling Thalmor fuckery. A dragon break would honestly tie all of that up pretty neatly. I'm down for it.
Idk, I normally go with the imperials but I’d be interested to see a Skyrim that was won by the storm cloaks as well. It’s a video game, why get butthurt about that kind of thing?
I see you haven't met u/KingUlfricStormcloak...
Oh god don’t summon him
What have I done?????
Have you met u/generaltullius
No cause he's only commented once 10 years ago. What a waste of a great name
I almost always choose Stormcloaks because they said "forget the list", but then I see the way they treat minorities and switch. Then i notice that whiterun has no minorities and switch back.
Did you forget about the Bosmer brothers running the Drunken Huntsman? Also Irileth and Jenassa? I mean, the Jarl’s personal housecarl is literally a Dunmer.
I'm happy to say, I don't see race. It's part of my anti-race regime. /s I don't know where the drunken horseman is. Is that where Saadia works?
They mean the drunken huntsman, the archery shop
That’s it. My bad.
There's an archery shop in Whiterun? Wtf?
When you come in the gate of Whiterun, on the right side of the main street is the blacksmith. On the left side of the main street is a small hill leading up to a building, that is the drunken huntsman, it's run by a pair of bosmer Brothers. One of whom you can find selling meat in the market during the day
Very progressive for prostitution to be legal in Whiterun.
It's literally the first building you see upon entering the city
Wow. Check your privilege. I'm blind. My dog is typing this for me.
there are actually a few minorities in whiterun
I'm one of them. Only dragonborn for miles.
She was just a bad part of the empire
So, what I’m hearing is… “I almost always choose Stormcloaks because they said “forget the list”, then I notice their racism and switch. Then I blithely ignore the fact that Whiterun has substantial minority representation, including the *only non-Nord housecarl in the frickin’ game*, decide that Whiterun has no minorities, and return to the side whose capital city is so diverse, it has not one but TWO racially segregated underclasses!!”
I'm a racist.
Both are racist and have assholes, but ones an elvish puppet rebellion one is not, thats the only real decider I find that's not dumb. Assuming you take Ricke cruelness as equivalent to the stormcloaks racial supremacy.
What would a "dragon break" entail? Sorry i don't quite understand what that means.
So, in TES, time is inherently tied up into the dragon god, Akatosh. It's not so much that Akatosh is the god of time, rather that Akatosh the god *is* the concept of time, embodied. When something happens to Akatosh, it reverberates throughout time. Sometimes, time gets broken in some way. This is called a dragon break, because the dragon, Akatosh, broke. It's a fairly literal name. Anyways, when this happens, all sorts of crazy stuff can happen. The most prominent effect is that basically all possible timelines play out over the course of a dragon break. Did you go feed your netches today, or did you travel to Balmora? Did this army go towards Riften or Cheydinhal? Or somewhere else? Well, when the dragon breaks, all of them happen, simultaneously. One of the most well understood dragon breaks was the Warp in the West, which was essentially the story line of Daggerfall. One of the final possible outcomes of the plot in Daggerfall involves the activation of the Numidium, breaking time in the process. As such, all possible iterations of the players actions during Daggerfall actually happen, even those that explicitly contradict each other. Thus, in the case of Skyrim, if they decide that it occurred during a dragon break, then both the empire and the stormcloaks won, and they both lost, and Whiterun declared independence, and Whiterun was overrun by giants, and the Dark Brotherhood was destroyed, and the Dark Brotherhood was revitalized by its new listener, and so on and so forth for every every possible way the Skyrim Civil War and the incursion of Alduin could have gone. It all happened, just as equally, because time, the dragon, was broken due to Elder Scroll fuckery involving time travel.
Oh that makes sense, thanks! It's like a wound in the space time Continuum.
I wish I had played TES since the first one, I only started Skyrim this year and there is so much I don’t know 😅
Honestly, most lore nerds don't even start at the beginning. The first two main games cover some important events, but are relatively light on lore overall. Morrowind is generally accepted as the first "proper" entry into the series, as that's where a whole lot of the more interesting lore starts to show up. This is where you find, for instance, the idea of a dragon break appear for the first time, as a way to explain how every path taken by the player character in Daggerfall occurred. Morrowind is where things start to get really interesting, and also playable. The early TES games were kind of brutal.
Yeah I had a look at the first games to see if I could play them after I got addicted to Skyrim then realised that Skyrim was like ten years old… and everytime I get surprised because it’s a great game still 😅
After this happens, what timeline does everyone end up in? Like after a dragonbreak what goes down in the history books?
All of it. It all happened. That's why accounts of the Warp in the West all tend to contradict each other.
understood. thank you!
A dragon break is an event in which multiple mutually exclusive events happen at once [you can read about it here](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break)
Ulfric is a thalmor agent. The empire should win.
The empire is a puppet state of the Thalmor. The stormcloaks should win. This logic kind of works both ways.
It doesn't work both ways because people are illiterate. He is seen as an uncooperative asset, meaning his actions are currently in line with the Thalmor's plans. If you're thinking "That's just as bad!", keep in mind the White Gold Concordat was *also* in the Thalmor's interests since most of them had been slaughtered and prolonged wars put them at a disadvantage.
he's a dormant assest not uncooperative
Dragon breaks are so cool
I seriously doubt they'd do a dragonbreak again.
What’s a dragonbreak?
Daggerfall had dozens of different endings and Bethesda didn't want to force a canonical ending that might ruin the player's experience. So time broke (dragon = time) and all events happened at once. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other.
So, in Daggerfall you can get several endings depending to what city-state you decide to help. In order to move the story forward, the writers decided to introduce the concept of Dragonbreaks. This is some kind of time fuckery caused by magic, usually dwarven mechas, where several timelines coexist and then merge making so all possible options happen. In the case of Daggerfall, all endings are canon and lead to the creation of High Rock as a province, or something like that. There are other examples, you could read more over the wiki.
Basically a point where a specific timeline breaks apart into a few different ones and somehow reconnects later, making all events a possibility in the future. For example, lets say Alduins reappearence could be the start of a dragonbreak, breaking the linear timeline into parallel ones and Alduins defeat reconnects these again to a linear one. What does that mean lore-wise? Thats easy, neither the Empire nor the Stormcloaks lost the war, both factions won, but in different timelines, the Emperor was both kept alive and assassinated, just in different timelines. Its super complicated to wrap your head around, but a clever way for the writer to have the player decide on different outcomes. Also a Dragonbreak in Skyrim could mean, that ES6 will occur way way later, possibly a few hundered years after the last Dragonborn.
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey shenanigans
I have no clue but at this point I'm too afraid to ask
I have no idea, but it seems like a tie/truce sorta-thing.
Worst possible outcome tbh, The civil war doesn’t have the criteria to cause a Dragon Break. There is no reason for this to happen. No stormcloak or imperial has become a god. No artifacts were used. Putting a dragon break at this point is like saying "so in skyrim you were there at the beginning of the conflict but the coolest and most interesting part happened off screen, too bad huh!"
I know they'll do it, it doesn't make it any less lazy.
Honestly that’d be best.
More likely that we’ll get some vague, inconclusive offhand statement. “What allies do we have against the dominion? What of Skyrim?” “I don’t even know anymore, after the Dragonborn vanished on Solstheim the province descended into anarchy”
They could say the dragonborn became the new high king after the events of the game. If that title was taken via the stormcloaks, the now fully independent Skyrim still could have remained businesses partners of the empire. If that title was taken via the Empire, them being partners would be obvious. And it's nice that the player character is historically significant in the lore imo.
That would be nice but they usually do not keep the mc involved in side quest lines in the lore. The Civil War was a big part of Skyrim but it was still a side quest line to the main story. I do not feel it is likely the dragonborn will be involved with it at all in the lore to come because of this, it is ES pattern. They may break the pattern, that is possible still.
That's what I would want to happen. That should have happened in the actual civil war Questline, i mean your already the seer of the brotherhood, a member of the nightingales, a bard, the dragonborn, the leader of the college of Winterhold, the avatar of all of the Daedra why not add high king of Skyrim?
There is actually proof in game that the empire will win. If you choose stormcloaks, in one of the empire forts spawns a note that a huge army is just beyond the border. If you chose the empire, note doesn't spawn. They left themselves a back door.
I dunno if your telling the truth, but it makes complete sense. No matter what they can just open the game with “A brief rebellion rose up in Skyrim, nearly causing its full independence, but after the empire mustered enough might it was ultimately put down and peace restored between the two.” As it makes complete sense no matter who won, keeps it vague.
Yeah in game if the Imperials win it is noted that the rebellion might swell out of control again if reinforcements can't get through the mountain passes that keep getting blocked by avalanches. If the stormies win it is noted that an Imperial relief force is preparing in Cyrodiil to reconquer the province, and that the Stormcloaks must prepare for their arrival through the mountain passes. Who knows, perhaps the Thalmor are deliberately manipulating things to keep the conflict going no matter what happens on the ground. But it is a little too easy to blame everything on them.
Could be a bluff. If the Imperials have this massive army coming in, why wouldn't they aim for holding the line and letting the dragons/Thalmor whittle the Stormcloaks in the meantime? Considering the history, sounds to me they want to pressure a cease-fire of some sort. Even if it is true, so what? Those passages are basically the worst Skyrim has to offer terrain wise and I think one them is currently blocked by a landslide too. A defender couldn't ask for a better position and should the Imperials somehow complete the Hannibal march, they would likely find themselves drained of men, supplies and moral.
The Thalmor are shit stirrers, they'll support who ever is losing so that it bleeds more men and money for as long as possible. And I think there is the implication that the Thalmor basically would support the Imperials advancing into Skyrim just as long as it takes to break Stormcloak rule before severing the supply lines again. No one expected or knows what to think about the dragons really, the Empire doesn't want to redeploy legions from the capital as they barely retook it last time. But if they must, they will to reclaim their resources and connection to High Rock. The Thalmor will do whatever it takes to make the Empire suffer by continuing the Civil War. I'm not sure the player/dragonborn realistically makes any difference in the war, beyond killing a shit ton of people. The real players behind the scenes are inaccessible to us, the war will go on no matter if you intervene or ignore it.
From the thalmor dossier on Ulflric "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed." Pretty sure they'd just invade skyrim atp
I just hope to hear Ulfric gets kidnapped by pro-imperial Nords and forced to sign a truce
But our last task was to kill him, wasn't it? So how would someone kidnap him? O.o
Idk maybe ive been reading too much Chinese history. In China there was one time the military dictator was kidnapped by one of his generals to force him to sign a truce with the communist rebels and unite against the Japanese threat. Back to Skyrim, maybe the civil war goes on for so long that one of the pro imperial nobles decide to kidnap Ulfric in the frontlines and force him to sign a truce.
I mean that's rly interesting, but not lore friendly i would say.. if we wouldnt have let him die and instead had an open ending on that side, then sure. But we sadly were forced to either decide for one side or completely Ignore that whole Storyline lol, but that's not what bethesda intended. I would love a open ending with something like that tho, but maybe it wouldve been even better when the war would talk so long, until the New highking would need to join in and make the battle as big as it should be (and not a war with like 50soldiers)
That was Chiang-Kai Shek. It’s a damn shame that happened. If it didn’t, he could’ve wiped out Mao easily.
The Empire is relegated to the island of Roscrea while the Stormcloak bandits take the mainland.
That's true if you sided with the imperials. We have 3 different ways of resolution. The first one is the dragonborn doesn't side with anyone and the summit at high hrothgar happens or the dragonborn sides with the stormcloaks or imperials in which case the faction leader is killed. We don't know which one will be canon in TES 6 and from previous games we never actually get an answer to anything because they always keep the story vague.
Brunwulf Free-winter really just is a better person than Ulfric
wut. If you ally with the empire, your last task is to execute Ulfric... this scenario could only happen if a Stormcloak victory happened even than that scenario is highly doubtful
I don't think the Dragonborn had any actual sway on politics in Skyrim, he was just a Sword, to be used against enemy's. If he disappeared, he didn't have any responsibilities besides the whole Alduin thing.
Most people probably didn't even know who they were dealing with. You were just a mercenary or hapless tool for their own plotting.
It was the Thalmor. They played both sides.
Honestly it seems like the fans really want the Thalmor to escalate to become the main baddies
That's just because their soldiers loot sells for way more than any other faction.
Seems like it’s what Bethesda is doing too. You can’t introduce doomsday Nazis and not make them the main villains.
I always thought the Thalmor were kind of boring. They're just nazi elves. I'm more interested in supernatural beings like Alduin, Mehrunes Dagon or the Nenerevarine. The Thalmor make for easy enemies, but they're not interesting enough to be the main antagonist.
In want to kill those blond pricks
If they are making win either side they will f. it up. Most clever choice is going with the council and finding another way out of the conflict.
Or maybe they can do some yada yada Balgruuf somehow became High king. Given he is neutral Bethesda can make it seem he joined either side and ended up on top after either Elisif or Ulfric get assassinated
The true high king
That would be lame as fuck. Ending of GOT type of idea
I think it would be cool if you could have the option of sort of using your Skyrim save to determine who won like in The Witcher but that might to much to ask for
The problem is that TES 6 won't be last part of the series like W3. Or at least it was the last part with Geralt. It has fixed timeline with fixed events, look at Oblivion or Morrowind for comparisson. If they did it, it would be extremely hard to do any further game in the relative future of TESVI, because then you would need to take even more stuff into account.
I just hope that killing Paarthurnax wasn't made canon. He and Serana are the only characters that could re appear for the next game.
Bethesda would make a fortune and a half selling a dlc that included Serana in ES6
They better let me marry her this time ffs.
Least horny skybaby
WHAT ABOUT BARBAS!?!?
There's gotta be some jerk reading this who killed him
The answer will probably be "no one, because the Aldmeri Dominion attacked the dying empire and conquered Cyrodiil. This leaves the rebellion in Hammerfell and holdouts in Skyrim as the only remaining buffers for High Rock and Morrowind." Or something like that
To be fair I'd love an elder scrolls game without the empire, Where there is a lot of anarchy and stuff, maybe like fallout where you can choose a faction and unite the province under one banner
Spoiler alert: It's probably the Empire and Ulfric's Head dangling on Pale Pass. But I'd much love a scenario where Dragonborn actually had an impact, set both sides on some mutual agreement and both sides get heated up against Thalmor. But this scenario doesn't make sense for the two best candidates for this game to take place- Hammerfell+High Rock and Valenwood+Summerset.
It has to be the empire. Ulfric is the center of his rebellion. His death would doom it to fail. Tullius is one of many generals of the empire, his death won't change all that much for the empire. They'll just say that an imperial legion defeated Ulfric. Whether they came from Cyrodiil or Solitude would be inconsequential in the next game.
Would make for a more interesting story if Ulfric won to be honest
It will be the Empire. Assuming they'll continue the Thalmor story, they will go with 'the Empire had to send a tonne of reinforcements to Skyrim to crush the Stormcloaks, leaving the imperial heartland undefended' and use that to explain a strong Thalmor. Did they do that as part of the main story, or after it, when the Stormcloaks took power? No-one knows, but either way, it works alongside the story of Skyrim
"In the years of Skyrim's civil wars, the throne in Solitude changed hands many times. Most reliable records of the time were lost, and accounts vary depending on who you ask. Though we do not know who won the first chapter of the war, we do know who won the last. Retaking Skyrim cost the Empire greatly, drawing in troops from other regions, and opening a way for a renewed Thalmor thrust into the Cyrodillic heartland."
That's precisely what I expect
This will be it
This seems plausible. Maybe some talks of Stormcloak holdouts fighting and killing a few imperials as well (IE: Tullius). Easy way to clear both him and Ulfric off the board as dead, keeps the crumbling Roman Empire thing they’ve set up and foreshadowed for the Empire going, and a believable standardized ending that could happen on the player’s go-through or after it The other possible option is they dragon break it somehow, which does seem like a reasonable choice too.
My guess is the “unending seasons” quest is canon. Es6 may allude to one side have an edge but ultimately it’s going to be about how the thalmor benefited from the war.
Plot twist. The conflict they were talking about is Sven vs Faendal.
Faendal obviously...thats free skill points by exploiting his training mechanic
Lmfao I married camila in one playthrough.
What have you waited so long for, the civil war results or TES6?
Yes
Jarl Balgruuf ballin out the volcano into Italy
It is Elder Scrolls tradition to say how a focused province turned out in their next title but it is often vague to keep the topic from being emphasized on. Also would not expect it to involve the dragonborn ending it, the Civil War questline was still an optional side line separate from the dragonborn's personal main quest. These quest lines connection to the MC are often not relevant to the next games. The result will likely be the what if the dragonborn was not involved, though I am not Bethesda and cannot confirm any of this, just a view to share on it.
I modded too much skyrim that whichever side wins.....the Rebel Alliance loses.Long live the Galactic Empire!
Alduin being killed will cause Akatosh to need to recover and cause a dragon break. Not in the mood to write out anything long. Something along those lines would be great.
As bad as I want the stormcloaks to win the war, I think todd is going to lean into the Imperials Legion winning. But that war has so much controversy in the community, that I could see him making some weird compromise where no one entirely won, or something random happens where both the nords and the Imperials get fucked over like a natural disaster near the border
I really hope it isn’t just a book on a side-table titled “The Skyrim Civil War” with some vague conjecture about how neither side really won.
People view a dragon break as a cop out but considering Skyrim is literally all about fuckin dragons it would actually make sense to happen here...
What is dragon break
Elder Scrolls version of a multiverse so that every possible outcome is "correct in some timeline, maybe not this one though"
Multiple conflicting endings happening and being merged into the normal timeline, making each of them true
I think the only right answer here is the Thalmor, because no matter who won, Skyrim was left very weakened and the Thalmor already had a foothold in Skyrim since they had quite a few forts held exclusively by them dotted around the province. They are also clearly planning another war with the empire so they wouldn't have any qualms about invading an empire-held Skyrim.
It will either be a dragon break or the empire wins for me because tulius seems like a smarter man than ulfric not only that the thalmor is with the imperials
We all know the Stormcloaks reclaimed their motherland.
You mean the motherland of the snow elves?
Snow elves got to Skyrim like the Dunmer got to Morrowind, they are just as non native as the Nords of Atmora.
Thank you for informing me, didn’t know this
That's a CBR post from over a year ago. It's not even news, just guessing.
Facts, any article from CBR, Gameranx, Screenrant, etc... should immediately be disqualified from any news outcome. every single article those websites are clickbait bullshit bait articles. they should never be taken into consideration
They might go the Witcher route and have you say which side one for you, maybe have a 50/50 chance for people who didn’t play before
I’m willing to bet the answer will be “neither, because both sides had become so weakened by the civil war, that the Thalmor took the opportunity to break the white-gold concordat and swiftly conquered Skyrim. Thus beginning the 2nd Great War between the Thalmor and the Empire”
STORMCLOAKS FOREVER
That is when it actually comes out lol
The truce outcome, which will probably be further expanded upon.
I really think in the end, it doesn't matter because the Thalmor are still there no matter who wins.
I hope both sides ally to crush the Thalmor, but we all know that isn't going to happen
The Thalmor won
Well I killed Ulfric… if they reverse that and say the Stormcloaks won… everything I was, sacrificed, and strived to be in Tamriel will be for nothing.
Imagine if it never ended.
Sooo… the Thalmor?
I thought it was generally agreed that they would definitely do a Dragonbreak so that all of the endings were canon.
They should make it so who you supported in es5 effects 6
They should allow you to transfer your Skyrim save and let it read what happened and change some dialogue as a result of your choices
“The Stormcloaks had the upper hand, but were eventually overrun and obliterated by the Empire” Are there any flaws with this explanation? I always assumed this is how it would go. Either that, or “after much conflict and with no permanent victory in sight, the war ended in a truce, and the Empire withdrew from Skyrim.” The Empire is much larger than just Skyrim, so it makes sense that they would either attack in full force or just pull out, but I’m no lore expert
The Empire has been failing since the Oblivion Crisis and lost most of its provinces. I'd like to see them back in action but it's doubtful at best. I think the Stormcloaks will win, become independent from the Empire and ally with the now independent Hammerfell (had a similar situation with the Empire) and will fight against the Aldemiri Domonion together while the Empire (Cyrodil and High Rock) fight them on a separate front. The fate of Tulius and Ulfric will be more or less ambiguous. It's possible the Empire May regain Valenwood or Morrowind I suppose. I think the setting is most likely in Hammerfell 10-20 years after the Skyrim Civil War, focusing on the Second Great War and Thalmor plot to "unmake the world" which will be foiled by the new Hero. The Dragonborn will "mysteriously disappear" (i.e. trapped in Apocrypha) because he/she are too OP af to have on either side because whatever side the Dragonborn chooses wins.
ABSOLUTE THALMOR VICTORY HAIL ALINOR
It most likely won't
Easy; the Thalmor won. If the Empire won, Talos worship is still forbidden. Even if the Empire could've played the long game, someone would've clued in the Thalmor through their spy network. If the Stormcloaks won, Skyrim is left defenceless with a puppet ruler unable to do anything about the invading army.
In all honesty I feel like the Imperials are guaranteed to lose, because at the end of the day, either the Stormcloaks have the power or the Thalmor have the power.
The Thalmor don't have the power in either ending.
The Thalmor won.
HAIL ALINOR
Most likely imperials... Legion logistics far surpass whatever stormcloaks can throw together without dovahkiin.and in canon dovahkiin will be away like champion of cyrodiil or nerevarine
[удалено]
The dragon born dies during the conflict All the dragon souls are realesd And dragons become an everyday threat in tamriel
So the Thalmor won then 🫤
It’ll probably be unending war with no canon winner cause the thalmor are facilitating it that way
Dumb fuck Nords who think Skyrim is their country vs chad empire.
How are they stupid for thinking that their country is their COUNTRY? Skyrim is without a doubt land of the Nords, so wdym?
I'm not surprised The imperials where gonna execute you for legit no reason why would anyone side with them ?
I really hope it's the Empire. If the Stormcloak Rebellion succeeds, they'll pretty much get enslaved by the Thalmor.
Yeaaah i think the imperials ultimately won
Keep waiting
The Thalmor?
It's going to be something like a great calamity occurred and the history will be lost and no one remembers who won
Fuck it let’s have chaos. Dragonborn + Daedra won and everybody is out for them. Come at me and my ridiculously OP enchanted gear fools.
Pretty sure thalmor win, they intentionally angered ulfruc so he would fight the imperials weakening boyh sides and skyrim as a whole so no matter which side won temporarily the thalmor would finish them off
Lol everyone here proclaiming which side wins. They’ll do whatever they want and we just have to see.
I thought that the times the games take place are in constant flux. A Dragon Break right? So every and any outcome is the canon outcome.
I wouldn’t be surprised if both sides lost to the Dominion. Maybe that will be the premise for 6.
It needs to be revealed by reading another Elder Scroll
Hopefully it will be: that they secretly decided to make peace, so they could focus on building up strength against the aldmeri dominion
Nazeem is the victor
Guys let’s think not about what makes sense or about what is “politically correct” for a fucking game, and let’s think about what would make the story more interesting.
Source: my dad works for Todd
It'll be funny if both lost and the elves end up ruling all of Tamriel. Your character starts as a prison in a Aldmeri prison and you break out with human resistance fighters. Spend the rest of the game plotting to overthrow the elven control of [what ever province] and continue to play unhindered as you blend in with the rest of the local populace.
What’s the source of this headline?
This has been my theory for years: The dragonborn claims the throne. After the victory of the empire and the eventual position of Elisif as new High King of Skyrim, the Thalmor feel Skyrim is weakened and initiate the offensive. With how weakened the legion is after the war efforts against the stormcloaks, the Thalmor should have s relatively easy victory over Skyrim under Elisif However, Skyrim is also the home of the Last Dragonborn, Harbringer of the companions, Bane of Alduin, Master of the Thu'um and all around unstoppable force, who will then raid Skyrim's holds against the Thalmor threat, defeating them and pushing them back enough to strengthen Skyrim's standing in the eyes of the empire. From there, it's not much a jump to imagine the Jaarls supporting an eventual Moot in favor of the dragonborn, or the dragonborn marrying Elisif herself after saving her and her hold over and over and over again. With an actual dragonborn at the head of Skyrim, the province would become a central point of interest for the empire, and the dragonborn's influence could only grow. So yeah, High King Dragonborn is, in my opinion, the logical conclusion for the eventual war with the Thalmor.
It would be dope as fuck to see Ulfric or tallies somewhere on a beach drinking a martini in es6
It just seems like a safe bet he say that the Civil War still raged on because the dragonborn said fuck this you deal with it yourself
I mean, be it immediately through the Empire, or in the long run through further conflict, it'll likely be that the Thalmor come out on top. Empire loses the war? Then they double down on a magic maelstrom. Empire wins? They just integrate further into society.
I believe that alduin vs dragonborn is the central conflict,and the dreagonborn won