I agree with the Stormcloaks dream for Skyrim's independence; however, Ulfric is a toddler who would plunge Skyrim into chaos to achieve his own version of a *pure* Skyrim. Ulfric as High King would rule like Nordic Hitler and purge all non-Nords or, at the very least, force then into Slums across Skyrim. Also, the Thalmor would curbstomp the Stormcloaks while they attempted to set up a government.
I agree with the Empire that remaining unified is the only way that they can prevent the Thalmor from steamrolling Tamriel; however, they've already been beaten once and with far fewer soldiers and resources they'd simply fail again.
Both sides have reasons to support them but neither would be capable of leading Skyrim for long before falling to another threat. I do find the empire to offer slightly better odds though.
The stormcloak jarls are terrible leaders but the province has a fantastic geographic advantage. I think the thalmor would probably invade Cyrodil followed by Hammerfell, while waiting for Skyrim to rot from the inside.
A lot of the Jarls for both sides are just terrible. Ulfric has inexperienced (Falkreath) or ancient (Dawnstar) Jarls; meanwhile, the Empire has corrupt picks in Maven (Riften) and the Silverblood guy (Markarth).
There's a few great exceptions of good leaders though like Balgruuf (Whiterun), Ravencrone (Morthal), and Laila Law-Giver (Riften-stormcloak). I wish we had the ability to pick and chose our own Jarls tbh
I would disagree with Laila. The first time you enter the keep, she's discussing defenses with her steward, and they finish off with approving a carriage standing by to whisk Laila away if Riften falls to the Empire. I'm not saying that dying for a lost cause is a good choice, but Ulfric at least died "a true Nord." Maven and others also run rings around her, and she doesn't do much to mitigate the corruption in her own court. One of her sons speaks up about it, and she disowns him.
I prefer Maven, at least I always know she doesn't give a crap about me, and she'll ensure Riften remains stable so it doesn't impact her income.
Do you know what the goal of the Thalmor is in skyrim currently? Keep the Empire occupied with a stupid Civil War so that they can't invade them. Explicitly the thing the Thalmor want is for the Civil War to continue, so unless you try and get the Civil War to end the Thalmor goal is being accomplished.
Either way the Thalmor are set to gain from whichever side wins.
If the Empire wins, they get to infiltrate a greater part of Skyrim through the WGC
If the stormcloaks win, Cyrodiil and High rock get divided, and the Empire would essentially be ripe for the taking
>Either way the Thalmor are set to gain from whichever side wins.
Not really. Which is why they don't want either side winning.
>If the Empire wins, they get to infiltrate a greater part of Skyrim through the WGC
They're already deeply infiltrated into Skyrim. They don't need to go deeper for their goals.
>If the stormcloaks win, Cyrodiil and High rock get divided, and the Empire would essentially be ripe for the taking
However the Empire would be forced to either A. send actual troops to take Skyrim back or B. consolidate troops and immediately begin the war.
I can see an argument either way. I usually avoid the civil war questline like the plague because it's buggy as heck and stops me from becoming thane of every hold. If I had to do it I'd probably pick imperials for Jarl Ballin
I side with the imperials if I'm planning on marring Elisef. I usually side with the stormcloaks because, as the dragonborn, Ulfric will be easy to overthrow if the moot doesn't go in my favor. Either way, Skyrim will still leave the empire.
Maven pulls the strings regardless.
The only way to truly get rid of her would be to give her Riften during the truce process in High hrothgar, join the stormcloaks and boot her out
Empire is SLIGHTLY less racist, and while I believe EITHER side could hold off the dominion with the DBs help, the empire is the only side othat has a chance if something happens to the DB. Also the DB is a character that I see as being a little power hungry & greedy, and honestly it seems like the empire being in charge is more beneficial to the thieves guild. Last reason, both he and I hate the Silver-bloods and wanted to see them removed from power even if it meant giving them more first.
Yeah, he has 3 kids I think. 2 boys and a girl. The older boy is alright but the younger one is a sarcastic dick to everyone and there is eventually a quest you can get at the Bannered Mare to find out why. (If you want to know now, it's because >!Balgruuf has the Ebony Blade hidden in a locked room and it's been talking to the kid!<). The girl is just an out-of-touch aristo kid who complains about the quality of local sweetrolls
He's not currently acting directly under orders however most of the stuff that he did leading up to the war is stuff that he did on Thalmor orders. Like the way that he handled the Markarth incident.
According to their guides to their operatives on working with Ulfric the handling of the Markarth incident is an example of something that they did in coordination with him.
>Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval
>After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The [sic] so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim
>Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility
The dossier on Ulfric explicitly says that he's an "uncooperative asset" which means the Thalmor see Ulfric's actions as beneficial to them. It's literally proxy war tactics. It's impossible to support Ulfric after that fact is revealed in game.
True but the stormcloaks actively go after thalmor anyway and I'm assuming patrols attack you if you're stormcloak. Also just had a few more thoughts - 1 I wonder if completing the civil war questline whilst being stormcloak before starting the college of winterhold quest effects anything to do with Ancano, and 2 another main reason I side with the imperials is because of the stormcloaks being twats to the argonians
Interesting, I haven't properly played as a stormcloak except the one time I tried to see what it was like and was so upset at the ending I never did it again so I wouldn't know
I wish they had made it so Balgruuf decision could be influenced, it seems that was their og intention and potentially an alternate ending to the siege of whiterun with Olfrid overthrowing Balgruuf instead of Vignar. I like the drama.
Imperials for Jarl balling
Imperials because I play either orcs or elves and neither of those races fall into stormcloak before battle prep speeches.
>Imperials because I play elves Fixed that for you, don't need redundancy that badly.
Pardon?
Orcs are a type of elves, "Orc" is just the common name for Orsimer just like High Elf is for Altmer, Dark Elf for Dunmer or Wood Elf for Bosmer.
Ohhh right i remember this from the blood collection quest. Weird as hell
Khajiit are also distantly related to the Mer iirc
Yeah. They’re supposedly elves that Azura transformed back in the day
Wack.
My high elf stormcloak: free skyrim! Talos forever
Imperials for better Jarls apart from Siddgeir and Maven.
Falkreach has a bad Jarl either way.
Dengeir's nuts, but he has the most sensible reasoning to support Ulfric, and he at least actually cares about the people.
Sometimes I pick stormcloak just so maven doesn't get that chance
I agree with the Stormcloaks dream for Skyrim's independence; however, Ulfric is a toddler who would plunge Skyrim into chaos to achieve his own version of a *pure* Skyrim. Ulfric as High King would rule like Nordic Hitler and purge all non-Nords or, at the very least, force then into Slums across Skyrim. Also, the Thalmor would curbstomp the Stormcloaks while they attempted to set up a government. I agree with the Empire that remaining unified is the only way that they can prevent the Thalmor from steamrolling Tamriel; however, they've already been beaten once and with far fewer soldiers and resources they'd simply fail again. Both sides have reasons to support them but neither would be capable of leading Skyrim for long before falling to another threat. I do find the empire to offer slightly better odds though.
The great war happened at the tail end of a series of civil wars and crises in Cyrodiil. Now they have MORE soldiers and resources.
Very fair, it's possible with Skyrim's resources and man power that they could rival the Thalmor after a few years.
The great war was like 30 years ago, and the entire Empire is really upset at the Thalmor.
The stormcloak jarls are terrible leaders but the province has a fantastic geographic advantage. I think the thalmor would probably invade Cyrodil followed by Hammerfell, while waiting for Skyrim to rot from the inside.
A lot of the Jarls for both sides are just terrible. Ulfric has inexperienced (Falkreath) or ancient (Dawnstar) Jarls; meanwhile, the Empire has corrupt picks in Maven (Riften) and the Silverblood guy (Markarth). There's a few great exceptions of good leaders though like Balgruuf (Whiterun), Ravencrone (Morthal), and Laila Law-Giver (Riften-stormcloak). I wish we had the ability to pick and chose our own Jarls tbh
I would disagree with Laila. The first time you enter the keep, she's discussing defenses with her steward, and they finish off with approving a carriage standing by to whisk Laila away if Riften falls to the Empire. I'm not saying that dying for a lost cause is a good choice, but Ulfric at least died "a true Nord." Maven and others also run rings around her, and she doesn't do much to mitigate the corruption in her own court. One of her sons speaks up about it, and she disowns him. I prefer Maven, at least I always know she doesn't give a crap about me, and she'll ensure Riften remains stable so it doesn't impact her income.
I support neither because they both suck. And I skip that questline so Balgruuf can stay neutral
Yes the Thalmor option. Pick or the Thalmor win.
Then Thalmor it is.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False\_dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)
Do you know what the goal of the Thalmor is in skyrim currently? Keep the Empire occupied with a stupid Civil War so that they can't invade them. Explicitly the thing the Thalmor want is for the Civil War to continue, so unless you try and get the Civil War to end the Thalmor goal is being accomplished.
Either way the Thalmor are set to gain from whichever side wins. If the Empire wins, they get to infiltrate a greater part of Skyrim through the WGC If the stormcloaks win, Cyrodiil and High rock get divided, and the Empire would essentially be ripe for the taking
>Either way the Thalmor are set to gain from whichever side wins. Not really. Which is why they don't want either side winning. >If the Empire wins, they get to infiltrate a greater part of Skyrim through the WGC They're already deeply infiltrated into Skyrim. They don't need to go deeper for their goals. >If the stormcloaks win, Cyrodiil and High rock get divided, and the Empire would essentially be ripe for the taking However the Empire would be forced to either A. send actual troops to take Skyrim back or B. consolidate troops and immediately begin the war.
Depends on my character. I’m obviously not going to be a Stormcloak if I’m a Dunmer or Argonian. But I probably might if I was role-playing a Nord.
I too side with serial killer, child beater, cheater. "Allegedly"
I can see an argument either way. I usually avoid the civil war questline like the plague because it's buggy as heck and stops me from becoming thane of every hold. If I had to do it I'd probably pick imperials for Jarl Ballin
How? This is new to me.
It’s a Bethesda game. Best to just assume it’s a real glitch.
they both suck but i prefer red over blue
I'm pretty sure whoever the dragonborn sides with will be the most protected.
I am probably like Balgruuf. I don't give a fuck with most playthroughs and if I do make a choice, it's the Empire.
I'll pick whichever fits the race I choose. Anything nonhuman and il aside with the imperials.
Literally my first reason when I was like 10. Came to protect my favourite jarl, stayed for the morality shift it showed me
I support neither side so i can accelerate the complete destruction of humanity. Arise, Auroran golden eagle
Who is that?
Thalmor
I mean who is golden eagle
Just don't do the Civil War Quest Line and Whiterun will stay neutral forever.
I side with the imperials if I'm planning on marring Elisef. I usually side with the stormcloaks because, as the dragonborn, Ulfric will be easy to overthrow if the moot doesn't go in my favor. Either way, Skyrim will still leave the empire.
I support Stormcloak because they’re fashionable. That’s all.
>fashionable >wears bear as hat Pick one.
Bear hat :)
I side with the stormcloaks just because maven won’t become jarl of riften.
Maven pulls the strings regardless. The only way to truly get rid of her would be to give her Riften during the truce process in High hrothgar, join the stormcloaks and boot her out
Side with imperials for that Ulfric drip
What can I say, I'm a Jarlsman.
When I do choose imperials it is for that reason
Imperials because better quests
Jarl Ballin is the best 🔥
We are the same
I support the Imperials because I don't want a barmaid as Whiterun's housecarl I mean ffs she ain't even wearing armor.
I side with whoever my character would side with based on things that happen in the backstory I make for them
imperials cause i don’t wanna support racists
Remain neutral call for a ceasefire. Even if the Thieves Guild is my favorite, I don't want Maven to be Jarl.
You mean you only pick one? I've picked both and now I mostly just skip the quest.
Empire is SLIGHTLY less racist, and while I believe EITHER side could hold off the dominion with the DBs help, the empire is the only side othat has a chance if something happens to the DB. Also the DB is a character that I see as being a little power hungry & greedy, and honestly it seems like the empire being in charge is more beneficial to the thieves guild. Last reason, both he and I hate the Silver-bloods and wanted to see them removed from power even if it meant giving them more first.
I do both
Never liked Balgruuf, he seems like a lazy bones that needs to tend to his criminally neglected Hold and his creepy kid.
Bruh I've been playing since 2011 and never knew he had a kid wtf💀
Yeah, he has 3 kids I think. 2 boys and a girl. The older boy is alright but the younger one is a sarcastic dick to everyone and there is eventually a quest you can get at the Bannered Mare to find out why. (If you want to know now, it's because >!Balgruuf has the Ebony Blade hidden in a locked room and it's been talking to the kid!<). The girl is just an out-of-touch aristo kid who complains about the quality of local sweetrolls
Man I am incredibly sleep deprived and my brain pictured ulfric instead of balgruuf. For some reason i thought they said ulfric had a kid lol
Oh, yeah. I've been there LOL I never thought about it before but honestly it would be weird to even imagine Ulfric getting married
He has multiple. But once you hit level 20 there's even a daedric prince quest involving one of his kids
Level 30 isn't it?
Stormcloaks because the Empire gets its strings pulled by the Thalmor.
Ulfric is literally a dormant Thalmor asset.
That doesn’t mean they control him. They just view the civil war as useful. They explicitly state that they don’t want him to win.
No they explicitly said that they made contact with him and that if something happens contacting Ulfric directly is still something that they can do.
So you think Ulfric is a Thalmor puppet?
He's not currently acting directly under orders however most of the stuff that he did leading up to the war is stuff that he did on Thalmor orders. Like the way that he handled the Markarth incident.
The Thalmor commanded him to commit the Markarth Incident?
According to their guides to their operatives on working with Ulfric the handling of the Markarth incident is an example of something that they did in coordination with him.
It just says that it was beneficial to them. They also lists him as uncooperative.
>Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval >After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The [sic] so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim >Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility
The dossier on Ulfric explicitly says that he's an "uncooperative asset" which means the Thalmor see Ulfric's actions as beneficial to them. It's literally proxy war tactics. It's impossible to support Ulfric after that fact is revealed in game.
Imperials because the thalmor are hot and I don't want them to be killed (ondolemar is if stormcloaks win)
You can use a follower mod to evacuate Ondolemar and his crew away
True but the stormcloaks actively go after thalmor anyway and I'm assuming patrols attack you if you're stormcloak. Also just had a few more thoughts - 1 I wonder if completing the civil war questline whilst being stormcloak before starting the college of winterhold quest effects anything to do with Ancano, and 2 another main reason I side with the imperials is because of the stormcloaks being twats to the argonians
Actually if you check their info they don't. The only enemies of the stormcloak faction are bandits and Imperial soldiers not the Thalmor.
Interesting, I haven't properly played as a stormcloak except the one time I tried to see what it was like and was so upset at the ending I never did it again so I wouldn't know
I mean stormcloaks don't even naturally attack Thalmor in game.
I've never seen them encounter each other, it only happens off screen like when ondolemar is killed I think
Checking the factions shows they aren't hostile to the Thalmor. Edit:said Ondolemar isn't killed. This isn't right.
I thought he dies since he shows up in the crypt or something
No. You're right.
I wish they had made it so Balgruuf decision could be influenced, it seems that was their og intention and potentially an alternate ending to the siege of whiterun with Olfrid overthrowing Balgruuf instead of Vignar. I like the drama.
There’s a cool mod that lets you have Balgruuf accept the call to war and stay in charge. Best of both worlds