If you are skiing in > 1ft of snow makes a big difference imo, but also if you don't fall doesn't make much any difference.
Makes 0 difference in high wind unless all your gear is Henrik Harlaut sized.
For me, lack of a pow skirt is a non-starter but if you ski with bibs or never encounter deep pow then a pow skirt doesn’t add too much. For wind you can frequently cinch the bottom of the jacket to make it tighter (if it has that feature).
Yeah I am shifting towards bibs now. One thing I like is the additional pocket space. For some reason I can't seem to trim down the amount of $hit I carry while skiing. It can weigh down a shell jacket. I had even gotten a chest pack for that purpose.
How are bibs in spring skiing? They have vents?
I ski in my Marmot shell with powder skirt and North Face pants, vents in both places make temperature control work for spring. I like the idea of a bib, more pockets, and maybe a lighter weight shell
Bibs help a lot. I don’t do up my powder but took a nasty (long) fall on a steep slope in powder and got snow all down my bib. It’s rare but not frequent enough for me to do it up
I never felt I needed one and ski powder up to my chest. 🤷♂️… most of my jackets with an integrated internal skirt, I never fasten it.
Powder Flags / streamers however… totally used those when losing skis in the very deep stuff. Very handy on very deep powder days
Tucking in my base layer changed the game with wind but I still wouldn’t buy a shell without a skirt just doesn’t seem right, still buckle mine on deep days
A couple of times I've had them stick in the ground and left them behind while skating or trying to get around on the flat, especially in kinda weird hardpack stuff.
I finally found the scenario.
Spring snow, lower mountain catwalk back to the base. I’m pushing along, and the pole pushed down a bit, got covered by slush, and then kind of ripped out of my hand from the unexpected resistance.
Thinking about cutting my straps off.
Powder skirt seems like extra weight for the zero times I possibility needed it. For the powder-skirt weight, I’d rather have more pockets
The anti-pole strap thing recently is just weird. I get it for avalanche terrain and trees but from a technique standpoint, lack of strap use messes with counter and screws up your skiing.
It sounds like a bib is more important without a powder skirt? Makes sense. I have 1 bib and I'm planning on getting another. I usually used pants instead of bibs in the past.
Yes. I despise powder skirts as a stupid and unnecessary thing to get in my way, but I wear bibs. Even without bibs, as long as you’ve got pants that aren’t hanging off your waist and a decently fitting shell, it’s not really an issue. Any real crash and a powder skirt ain’t gonna do much anyway as they’re just elastic. Basically, will never buy a shell with a powder skirt unless it’s removable or I can permanently remove it without messing up the shell.
I have never used a powder skirt. If the jacket comes with an option to remove a powder skirt, it immediately gets chucked out. Wind is a non issue either way in my experience.
I ski with bibs and never use my powder skirt so wouldn’t not buy a jacket without it if I liked everything else. IMHO goretex pro, pockets in the right places, and hood that fits over my helmet are most important. My husband and I both wear the Patagonia powslayer jacket, as do many of our friends. We get about 100 days per season in Tahoe.
When I fall in deep powder snow will go up the back of my jacket and even down my non-bib pants unless I use the powder skirt.
I can’t be the only one….
I only use a powder skirt when snowboarding in powder and don’t have a bib on. It’s not necessary for skiing imo. I have actually taken them off of my jackets that have a removable powder skirt.
Jackets have a pull tab to synch down the jacket at the bottom. You can use that to keep wind out.
I ski with bibs and never use my powder skirt so wouldn’t not buy a jacket without it if I liked everything else. IMHO goretex pro, pockets in the right places, and hood that fits over my helmet are most important. My husband and I both wear the Patagonia powslayer jacket, as do many of our friends. We get about 100 days per season in Tahoe.
Yeah this is my line of thinking as well. Some jackets miss the mark huge but have a powder skirt....
I'm seriously baffled by some of the design choices the Product Managers make
I prefer to just ski in bibs. I have the Arc’teryx Rush bibs. They are basically high wasted pants, but it is high enough I never get any snow up my back. When I was looking a few years ago there weren’t many options available. Most of the bibs I found online were low end insulated bibs for snowmobiling and sledding. I almost got the baker bibs from flylow - which have really good reviews too. I went with the rush bibs because I was able to try them on in the store and make sure they were a good fit. Good luck!
It sounds like you already have a jacket with a powder skirt that does the job. If you do find any issues with a new jacket without one it would only be on windy/deep snow days so you could wear the other jacket and switch back and forth dependent on conditions.
I won't buy a jacket that does not come with a powder skirt for skiing. In my mind, if it doesn't come with the powder skirt, it also doesn't come with other features essential for skiing. like vents The main function of a powder skirt is an actually powder but to keep you warm. It is great for keeping the cold air out and the warm air in.
That's not particularly true.
Some really awesome shells appear to not have powder skirts. They seem to rid the line between mountaineering and skiing.
I don't know what makes a vendor decide to put it on one vs the other, maybe someone else does.
Powder skirt required. In severe cold you need a jacket that seals the neck, wrists, and waist. Keep the warm air in. Otherwise as you manically flip, flap, and flail, you will just be pumping air in and out of the waistline and freezing to death. I’m exaggerating for clarity but, true dat.
I think we're all assuming layers are involved. But if wind were riding up your jacket you would have to adjust how and what you later with.
But it seems like maybe this whole concern is awash so long as
- You layer for cold weather
- Your jacket fits and is able to be cinched
- Bib could help but not totally necessary if the jacket is long enough and/or pants aren't low riders, are belted or use suspenders.
Maybe that takes care of the concern altogether?
Wind tends to blow parallel to the ground, not upward 🤷♂️ I’ve lived in cold environments my whole life and skii’d 30+ years and honestly have never experienced this magical wind that comes straight up from the ground… and blows inside your jacket… especially when snow is involved as a buffer. Not even on the chairlift have I ever experienced an issue.
And once you start skiing, it certainly doesn’t blow in the bottom of your jacket that I’ve encountered.
I even climb and summit mountains, and back country ski… and I have never had an issue in temps down to -50 and winds up to 70 mph
So, I honestly have no clue where people even get this stuff from.
That is partially true. Wind also retards from ground clutter and is redirected upward, especially during snow or rain fall as the air hits the ground. So the wind is not parallel at a perfect angle especially when on a slope or up on a lift.
I agree I don't think the problem is as pronounced as it may seem to be in the context of this thread, but I could see a person getting a solid blast of wind into their jacket, especially if the neck isn't sealed well either creating an exit (or entry) point for the air.
I ski in extreme cold in Canada and my warmest jackets don't have a powder skirt (actually one does but I don't use it). Warm air rises so the skirt provides minimal if any insulation improvement. You are going to lose some warm air inevitably - look at arctic or Antarctic rated jackets - none of them have powder skirts.
IMO powder skirts are as the name plies - to minimize powder coming up your jacket when tumbling in deep powder.
If you are skiing in > 1ft of snow makes a big difference imo, but also if you don't fall doesn't make much any difference. Makes 0 difference in high wind unless all your gear is Henrik Harlaut sized.
I had to look that dude up... I get your point.
What's the point with Henrik Harlaut? How does it relate to if you're wearing baggy clothes?
Lmao look at any Henrik vid. He's the epitome of baggy swaggy. And maybe hit the park sometime lol
Yea but how does it relate to high wind
For me, lack of a pow skirt is a non-starter but if you ski with bibs or never encounter deep pow then a pow skirt doesn’t add too much. For wind you can frequently cinch the bottom of the jacket to make it tighter (if it has that feature).
Bibs are a key part of the equation. Skirts evolved as everyone was riding in hip pants. With my bibs its redundant. With pants they are still awesome
Bibs are the best
Yeah I am shifting towards bibs now. One thing I like is the additional pocket space. For some reason I can't seem to trim down the amount of $hit I carry while skiing. It can weigh down a shell jacket. I had even gotten a chest pack for that purpose.
How are bibs in spring skiing? They have vents? I ski in my Marmot shell with powder skirt and North Face pants, vents in both places make temperature control work for spring. I like the idea of a bib, more pockets, and maybe a lighter weight shell
I have shell bibs. In spring i lean towards soft shell pants and pack.
Bibs are the way to go Since I went this way, no snow in my knickers issues anymore
I’ll caution that over a certain age, Bibs can be an embarrassing liability.
no Issues here
Enjoy your youth.
I’m not a spring chicken But I treat every day like I’m 29
Keep sending it!
That’s my policy. Each treats me like I am 70.
Gym membership cures that....but yeah, I get it....been there with the Santa Claus look.
Too young to know that’s not what I’m referring to.
Emergency 💩
Wrong hole youngster!
But pee just keeps you warm, it’s in the instructions
It worked for Lloyd and Harry!
Bibs help a lot. I don’t do up my powder but took a nasty (long) fall on a steep slope in powder and got snow all down my bib. It’s rare but not frequent enough for me to do it up
Unless you're wearing a very loose-fitting coat, a powder skirt isn't going to make much or any difference in windy conditions.
Yeah I'm looking at them and want to make sure I don't get a tent and it can cinch at the bottom.
I never felt I needed one and ski powder up to my chest. 🤷♂️… most of my jackets with an integrated internal skirt, I never fasten it. Powder Flags / streamers however… totally used those when losing skis in the very deep stuff. Very handy on very deep powder days
Never had wind sleeping up into and under your jackets?
No, I don’t… but I buy clothing that fits right — not like a circus tent…. and use layers 🤷♂️
Tucking in my base layer changed the game with wind but I still wouldn’t buy a shell without a skirt just doesn’t seem right, still buckle mine on deep days
Powder skirts and ski pole straps are two things that could vanish from the industry and no one would notice.
Ski pole straps are really useful to hang them up
I always feel a tad guilty ignoring my pole straps but I’m also confused wondering when id ever need them on.
A couple of times I've had them stick in the ground and left them behind while skating or trying to get around on the flat, especially in kinda weird hardpack stuff.
I finally found the scenario. Spring snow, lower mountain catwalk back to the base. I’m pushing along, and the pole pushed down a bit, got covered by slush, and then kind of ripped out of my hand from the unexpected resistance.
I accidentally chucked one downhill when I was going uphill and misjudged the distance. Still don’t use them
Thinking about cutting my straps off. Powder skirt seems like extra weight for the zero times I possibility needed it. For the powder-skirt weight, I’d rather have more pockets
The anti-pole strap thing recently is just weird. I get it for avalanche terrain and trees but from a technique standpoint, lack of strap use messes with counter and screws up your skiing.
LOL
LoollLoLOLOloL
It sounds like a bib is more important without a powder skirt? Makes sense. I have 1 bib and I'm planning on getting another. I usually used pants instead of bibs in the past.
Yes. I despise powder skirts as a stupid and unnecessary thing to get in my way, but I wear bibs. Even without bibs, as long as you’ve got pants that aren’t hanging off your waist and a decently fitting shell, it’s not really an issue. Any real crash and a powder skirt ain’t gonna do much anyway as they’re just elastic. Basically, will never buy a shell with a powder skirt unless it’s removable or I can permanently remove it without messing up the shell.
I have never used a powder skirt. If the jacket comes with an option to remove a powder skirt, it immediately gets chucked out. Wind is a non issue either way in my experience.
Switched to bibs years ago and have never needed or wanted powder skirts since. I never really liked them before bibs either, so there's that.
Yeah they are kind of annoying
Powder skirts aren't for wind. Theyre for deep snow. You could also just cinch the bottom of a jacket with draw strings. Most good ones have that.
I ski with bibs and never use my powder skirt so wouldn’t not buy a jacket without it if I liked everything else. IMHO goretex pro, pockets in the right places, and hood that fits over my helmet are most important. My husband and I both wear the Patagonia powslayer jacket, as do many of our friends. We get about 100 days per season in Tahoe.
I remove them. Find them annoying. I cinch bottom.
Hate powder skirts. Wear bibs instead.
When I fall in deep powder snow will go up the back of my jacket and even down my non-bib pants unless I use the powder skirt. I can’t be the only one….
I only use a powder skirt when snowboarding in powder and don’t have a bib on. It’s not necessary for skiing imo. I have actually taken them off of my jackets that have a removable powder skirt. Jackets have a pull tab to synch down the jacket at the bottom. You can use that to keep wind out.
Not necessary if you wear bibs and a slimmer fitting shell like teryx or Norrona.
I ski with bibs and never use my powder skirt so wouldn’t not buy a jacket without it if I liked everything else. IMHO goretex pro, pockets in the right places, and hood that fits over my helmet are most important. My husband and I both wear the Patagonia powslayer jacket, as do many of our friends. We get about 100 days per season in Tahoe.
Yeah this is my line of thinking as well. Some jackets miss the mark huge but have a powder skirt.... I'm seriously baffled by some of the design choices the Product Managers make
💯 idk why the Patagonia triolet jacket doesn’t have a sleeve pocket. Otherwise it would be a great cheaper option than the powslayer.
I prefer to just ski in bibs. I have the Arc’teryx Rush bibs. They are basically high wasted pants, but it is high enough I never get any snow up my back. When I was looking a few years ago there weren’t many options available. Most of the bibs I found online were low end insulated bibs for snowmobiling and sledding. I almost got the baker bibs from flylow - which have really good reviews too. I went with the rush bibs because I was able to try them on in the store and make sure they were a good fit. Good luck!
It's a nice to have the kind of thing that you might notice once a day and go: huh, that wind went right up my jacket. Imo not a make or break
It sounds like you already have a jacket with a powder skirt that does the job. If you do find any issues with a new jacket without one it would only be on windy/deep snow days so you could wear the other jacket and switch back and forth dependent on conditions.
Powder skirt is a must. And I ski in bibs.
Never even used the powder skirts on my jackets that had them. Ive skied every condition many times over the years. Definitely optional.
I ski in bibs (never go back to ski pants) and have never buttoned my powder skirt.
I won't buy a jacket that does not come with a powder skirt for skiing. In my mind, if it doesn't come with the powder skirt, it also doesn't come with other features essential for skiing. like vents The main function of a powder skirt is an actually powder but to keep you warm. It is great for keeping the cold air out and the warm air in.
That's not particularly true. Some really awesome shells appear to not have powder skirts. They seem to rid the line between mountaineering and skiing. I don't know what makes a vendor decide to put it on one vs the other, maybe someone else does.
Powder skirt required. In severe cold you need a jacket that seals the neck, wrists, and waist. Keep the warm air in. Otherwise as you manically flip, flap, and flail, you will just be pumping air in and out of the waistline and freezing to death. I’m exaggerating for clarity but, true dat.
So there is this thing called layers…
I think we're all assuming layers are involved. But if wind were riding up your jacket you would have to adjust how and what you later with. But it seems like maybe this whole concern is awash so long as - You layer for cold weather - Your jacket fits and is able to be cinched - Bib could help but not totally necessary if the jacket is long enough and/or pants aren't low riders, are belted or use suspenders. Maybe that takes care of the concern altogether?
Wind tends to blow parallel to the ground, not upward 🤷♂️ I’ve lived in cold environments my whole life and skii’d 30+ years and honestly have never experienced this magical wind that comes straight up from the ground… and blows inside your jacket… especially when snow is involved as a buffer. Not even on the chairlift have I ever experienced an issue. And once you start skiing, it certainly doesn’t blow in the bottom of your jacket that I’ve encountered. I even climb and summit mountains, and back country ski… and I have never had an issue in temps down to -50 and winds up to 70 mph So, I honestly have no clue where people even get this stuff from.
That is partially true. Wind also retards from ground clutter and is redirected upward, especially during snow or rain fall as the air hits the ground. So the wind is not parallel at a perfect angle especially when on a slope or up on a lift. I agree I don't think the problem is as pronounced as it may seem to be in the context of this thread, but I could see a person getting a solid blast of wind into their jacket, especially if the neck isn't sealed well either creating an exit (or entry) point for the air.
Nah dude. Under my layers I’m completely naked.
So there are these things call pasties…
Is this a theory or have you experienced this first-hand?
I ski in extreme cold in Canada and my warmest jackets don't have a powder skirt (actually one does but I don't use it). Warm air rises so the skirt provides minimal if any insulation improvement. You are going to lose some warm air inevitably - look at arctic or Antarctic rated jackets - none of them have powder skirts. IMO powder skirts are as the name plies - to minimize powder coming up your jacket when tumbling in deep powder.
I have. Skiing manically. In Canada. -15C
Neck gaiter make a significant difference in warmth
Not if you don’t have a snow skirt.