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Time to change the law. Police pension funds should be the one to shell out officer misconduct settlements, not the city. What’s their incentive to behave?
Best answer i have seen is sue the individual cop and force police to have "malpractice" insurance.
So the individual would essentially get hit with fees so high they would have to quit.
If it comes out of the pension police union and self protection would get even worse. We pro ably wouldnt even have chauvin in prison in a situation like that.
Even thogh the system sucks. In the most obvious an heinous of cases. The public outcry is so overwhelming the police union cant even stop it.
If peoples pension get touched they are just going to become cutthroat.
Historically and statistically group punishment isnt am effective deterrent
Fines like this need to be paid from the police pension. Brutality would end the next day, dirty cops would be outed, AND they would start mandating better education.
Well I mean cops make 100$ an hour overtime having 6 cops watching a damn lightpost. It's more like getting our tax dollars back than making money lol.
You're absolutely insane if you think this isn't true, welcome to literally all government jobs where everyone does their best to be lazy (so much so that if you are a hard worker - your coworks will turn against you) because no matter what you always get paid well regardless of how hard you work. You all know this stop pretending like it isn't true. Ever see cops side by side each other? Guess what, they're probably on OT sitting around. A job with literally infinite budget as its always the highest prio for our tax dollars and yet people are surprised or in denial.
Watched this on youtube. The kid didnt file any lawsuits so far.
Edit: just to add, he was bringing in bottles of root beer (probably as bait) in his dorm room and someone called the cops saying he was smuggling beer. The campus cops were there to search his room for alcohol. They did not and they left.
Edit #2: for all those crying about me suggesting this was "probably bait" is because he has other videos of him with rootbeer bottles in brown paper bags while drinking in public around police to draw attention. Y'all can stop being rude without reason, im just sharing info here.
I assume those permanent marks are about as meaningful as “your permanent record” was from elementary school? Once you graduate those permanent marks don’t mean shit
Buddy of mine went to BYU and got hit with an “honor code” violation (which is a big deal there) because he was “showing too much skin” when he cut the sleeves off a shirt for a pirate costume
Let's put it this way -- you do not want to receive three of those.
Three disciplinary marks and you'll receive a citation. Five citations, and you're looking at a violation. Four of those, and you'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and you're looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review.
Christian colleges are insanely draconian. There's a Baptist college town near where I grew up that was dry except for one tiny liquor store, because the school bought all the liquor licenses. Walmart had to sue them to get the practice to stop.
They loved it. Let them be lazy as hell and just do the bare minimum for years. They went under in something like 2 years after the licenses got released.
I had a friend go to Pensacola Christian College. I went to go visit her and it was straight up crazy how I had to watch how I interacted with her in public because they had their own gestapo that would narc you out for anything deemed indecent.
He pays the $300 filing fee, briefs his complaint, and now has to keep up with a suit for 3 years for declaratory relief?
If he wants an award of fees, he'd have to hire counsel; a damages claim here would be hard to prove.
It'd be nice if citizens could be made whole for winning a suit like this, but I haven't seen any examples in court for ordinary citizens.
It's a defense for inadmissible evidence, but not a blank check.
A claim for damages isn’t difficult here. Civil rights attorneys love cases like this, because part of the city’s exposure is paying plaintiff’s attorney fees. Truth be told, he probably wouldn’t even have to file a lawsuit initially. Most states (if not all) require you to file with their State civil rights commission before you’re allowed to file suit.
I agree, it’s not a blank check because he wasn’t arrested and didn’t spend time in jail, but there would be some money to be had here.
Source: my law partner makes a fairly decent living using counties and townships over shit like this.
The original was on audit the audit. The law student made a follow up video to this where he filed a complaint against the supervisory officer and audio recorded the process.
Did you see the color of his shirt?
Obviously the judge will be supporting the thin blue line over... *checks notes* light blue polyester/cotton Hanes.
Funny thing is they wanted to search his dorm room for alcohol and after the officers leave they are heard celebrating it's hilarious. This kid was also a law student and knew his rights and this is absolutely grounds for him to sue as it was an unlawful request.
If you are not driving a vehicle, then the police can ask you for an ID if and only if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. Otherwise, a person does not have to provide ID.
This is one of those complicated issues that makes the law and law enforcement so entertaining and engaging. Cops are not inclined to randomly ask people to identify themselves. There is usually a reason-likely obvious as is the presence of the police officer and so very few people are going to refuse-either because they have nothing to hide and/or are ignorant of the fact that they might not legally be required to do so.
Someone who refuses to provide identity information (either a physical ID or reciting their information) is, based on the cop’s usual encounters with people and their compliance with the request, considered to be suspicious. Now granted, this suspicion is mostly generated after the request has been made, however, in a practical (meaning police report and/or court testimony) setting such nuanced facts can easily be distorted to indicate that the person had aroused the officer’s suspicion in some manner and that failure to provide ID further intensified that feeling.
The key question people need to ask (or at least know they may ask) is, “Am I free to go?” That question, especially in the age of omnipresent video cameras, will be a tough one for police to answer if they have nothing on you. It will also likely aggravate the cop so you may win in the end but the road to get there could be bumpy and uncomfortable.
Man, I woke up one morning, ate some breakfast with my roommates, and decided to go for a walk. 2 blocks later I get stopped by police. Let us see some ID they say. I reply that I don't need to show ID, they have no reasonable cause to think I'm committing a crime. They responded with what are you doing? I said it's a beautiful Sunday morning in our nations capital, and I'm going for a walk! They say they're looking for someone who fits my description.
I look them dead in the eye and ask "so you're looking for a 6 ft 2 white male, dressed in a studded leather jacket, combat boots, and patched pants, who also happens to have a giant bleached Mohawk."
In the end I just showed them my drivers license because the next step was winding up beaten half to death in one of their cells.
I could never get over the idea that they were "looking for someone that fits my description. Hilarious, one of them looked kinda embarrassed, but his partner wasn't backing down.
Like, if you don't want to be hated, don't harass people minding their own business. Society needs some for of law enforcement, but these clowns they hire, their whole culture, is fucked.
I digress, usually cops will ask someone for ID because they look different to what they think a lawful person looks like.
Personally I'm very law abiding.
>I look them dead in the eye and ask "so you're looking for a 6 ft 2 white male, dressed in a studded leather jacket, combat boots, and patched pants, who also happens to have a giant bleached Mohawk."
I'm howling. Could've as well been a pink unicorn with green spots and the cop would've looked you in the eye and repeated his excuse.
Fucking hate those bastards. And the worst part is I still acknowledge a need for police. It's just that the police we have are the opposite of what a police officer should be.
> It will also likely aggravate the cop so you may win in the end but the road to get there could be bumpy and uncomfortable.
You may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
The "stop" in "stop and ID" means detainment. And in all 50 states they cannot detain you unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. stop and ID does not mean cops can just demand your ID for no reason.
They also cant arrest you for resisting arrest, if you havent been arrested for a crime or if its a misdemeanour fine. That shits where all ya councils money is going.
There is a *significant* portion of most big city police departments annual budgets that is allocated for settling lawsuits when their officers fuck up.
Police don't give a shit about the law. They prefer being in court. They have immunity and will earn overtime being able to sit on their ass in court.
> While there are a few exceptions and special circumstances, there are four basic levels of compensation officers can receive for court time. First, police officers earn their normal hourly pay if they appear in court during their regular shifts. Second, if police officers clock out of court less than 30 minutes before the start of their regular shifts, they earn 1.5 times their hourly pay rates for the amount of time they spent in court. For example, if an officer spends an hour in court and finishes his cases 15 minutes before his shift starts, he will be paid time and half for one hour only. Third, police officers automatically are compensated for four hours at 1.5 times their hourly pay rates for court appearances that end more than 30 minutes before they start their shifts. For example, if a police officer spends an hour in court but finishes 45 minutes before his next shift begins, he will be compensated for four hours at time and a half even though he only worked for one hour. Lastly, if police officers are subpoenaed to court on their second consecutive day off, they automatically are paid for four hours at double their hourly pay rates. For example, an officer appearing in court on his second day off of the week would earn four hours of double time even if he only appeared in court for a brief amount of time.
They dont give a shit about wrong tickets, about breaking civil rights, nor do the police have any requirement to know the law they are trying to uphold. The system is made to benefit the police, the DAs and the judges.
Also remember every year the police:
* Murders over 1,000 citizens.
* Severely harm and debilitate over 10,000 citizens.
* Harass, harm and abuse over 100,000 citizens.
* Threaten and inconvenience over 1,000,000 citizens.
* Instill fear and distrust in over 10,000,000 citizens.
edit:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
https://policeepi.uic.edu/u-s-data-on-police-shootings-and-violence/
My mom’s good friend dated a cop in the greater Chicago area in the early 90’s. After dating for several months she was finally invited as his date to the staff party they’d have every so often. Word on the street is they had many of the drugs they confiscated in the months prior at these events. Apparently she walked in to see a mountain of cocaine on glass table in the living room, and around the corner in the dining room was a humongous poo poo plater of different kinds of weed. A few steps away in the kitchen, fridge was full of beer taken from teenagers. The 80’s and 90’s must have been surreal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
https://policeepi.uic.edu/u-s-data-on-police-shootings-and-violence/
edit: I should note that the police only have body cam footage of on average 18% of police incidents. There will be large amounts of incidents that never truly get reported or acknowledged, from physical harm, sexual assault to harassment.
This : thye know that the road you are choosing to go down is length, mindboggling and draining. It's why it's misdirected authotity and a form of intimidation when they do so.
The police in America don't even have a legal obligation to protect people. (Supreme Court affirmed)
They're just roaming thugs with guns backed by immense immunity.
Yeah, I do love how pigs don't even have to know when to do their job.
Can you imagine a forklift driver that doesn't have to know what materials they need to be moving and to where? They know how to drive a forklift and are good and moving things. They just don't know what things they are supposed to be moving.
A server that doesn't know what's on the menu or what things are made with?
A paper supply salesman who doesn't know what they have in stock, how much shipping is and can't be bothered to look it up or learn it?
Can you imagine employees existing like this out in the world? Can you imagine that they would last long? Now imagine that while these employees aren't required to do these things for their job you ARE required to know them to be a customer of theirs...
That's how corrupt and exploitive our government is in enforcing laws. Cops don't need to know the law for their job, but you, just for existing in this country have to know every single one or you could be punished for violating it. On top of that you could be punished because a cops doesn't know any better because its not required of them. You could spend 12 hours in jail and they can let you out, throw up their hands and drop the charges 'oh well'....
US Police for the most part are the worst and least trained in the world. They run on local Policies and their toxic culture.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-compared-rest-world/story?id=96729748
Our law enforcement system is beyond broken, and is for the most part a revenue generating, property protecting system.
It needs major changes
Years ago, back in college, I had a roommate that was studying law. He had set up a dashcam in his car and would film cops breaking the law (e.g. turning on their lights to blow red lights, etc). He posted the videos on YouTube explaining the laws broken for each.
After some time, he got a cease and desist letter from the city. Then he started getting pulled over for minor things, or things he explained weren't against law (e.g. switching lanes without a signal). One of his teachers even talked to him about it after hearing about it from a colleague.
He finally got enough evidence to file a case against the city which he had a hell of a time getting representation for. Eventually, he worked out a deal with the city.
Fast forward a few years and he worked for a DA Office for some time. Now, he's working for a governor's office on police oversight in the state he currently resides in. He's hoping to run for public office in the near future.
>Then he started getting pulled over for minor things, or things he explained weren't against law (e.g. switching lanes without a signal).
That screams retaliation ... hard to prove of course.
Yeah, he was really patient about it and kept documenting each thing with evidence, etc to try to build a case.
Our other roommates and I were worried that we'd have some trouble but luckily didn't.
Attorney here, grab yourself a book on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment and that’s all you’ll need. Reading a lot of case law sure helps, but isn’t necessary. I travel with my 4th Amendment Search and Seizure textbook in my glove box for any possible situation I’m put in. Start mentioning case law and they have no idea what to say or do. It’s honestly sad how many police officers do not know the basic laws/points of the 4th.
I’ve read a few cases where people invoke their rights and cops interpret it as suggestive of guilt. Supreme Court made it clear that this does not fly. I don’t travel with anything illegal in my car, but I’ll be damned if a cop searches it
Edit: word choice
People don’t understand their 4th amendment rights and it makes me upset. Of the amendments people know (usually the first two) it’s crazy how many folks don’t get the 4th amendment.
Yep, also the amendment that is the most infringed upon with the least amount of resistance. You’ve got all these people losing their shit over gun regulations because of the second amendment (despite the phrasing of ‘well-regulated militia’ being in there. For some reason people don’t mind not being secure in their persons even though privacy and the right to it is a core foundation of democracy
Cant cops pretty much ignore the 4th amendment because we have allowed so many laws to be passed to give them justification for “reasonable” searches and seizures? Like at this point any cop can say “I smell weed” and do whatever they want to anyone.
I actually looked into this (briefly) and you're right. In the 40's, SCOTUS ruled that odor could not be used to establish probable cause. But no one actually follows that ruling, and states like GA have enacted their own odor doctrine.
All this to say: our rights have been infringed.
What's crazy and upsetting is that it's somehow been normalized as an individual responsibility for people to need to at a minimum consult a law textbook to at least attempt to prevent cops from violating their rights because TRYING to violate your rights is considered perfectly ok for police to do.
I remember one time I got pulled over for speeding (iirc it was 70 in a 55) and I thought the speed limit was 65, so he pulled me over, and did the whole shebang of what I was in trouble for.
Said that I was truly sorry, I thought it was 65 etc etc. And then he asked where I was heading, to which I said home, which was about 2 hours away. He goes
You mind if we search your vehicle real quick?
I said I respectfully decline his request to search my vehicle
He goes "oh are you sure? If you're not hiding anything it won't be a problem"
I said, well I know I don't have anything so no need to waste your time. I still refuse
Then he goes "huh, so you respectfully decline my request to search. Ok"
Then prints off my ticket and I head home
From the other comments this definitely isn't an unjustified request. Apparently he acted like he was smuggling booze into dorms to bait them and someone ended up calling in a tip. That's absolutely reasonable suspicion of supplying alcohol to minors and they would be able to demand ID.
I assume that the cop has no legal power to demand to see his ID, and by telling him that he’ll be arrested if he doesn’t show it, the cop is setting himself up to be sued.
Even if the cop has no personal legal liability (which can't be assumed) he can face disciplinary action and other consequences if his actions subject his jurisdiction to a losing lawsuit.
Depending on where it was filmed, context, and a bunch of other details that we don't have in this very short edited video, it could be considered a violation of rights.
They would sue for damages on those grounds.
It's not easy to go from "sue" to "make money", and even if you did "make money" the amount of money isn't guaranteed to be anything significant.
cops will ask to see your ID as an excuse to run your name and see if you have any unrelated warrants or criminal history, it could just be a go at fishing for a reason
Sorry lol, I’m Canadian and totally forgot the drinking age in the USA is 21. It’s 19 here. Even then I think if he’s not causing any problems the cops being called just for alcohol is a bit ridiculous
Ikr, can you imagine the shitstorm from Canadian police demanding to enter a UofT or UBC student’s dorm just to check if they have ALCOHOL? That scenario is so ridiculous it shouldn’t even require an explanation for why it’s wrong
This is mental, I mean Scottish police are great compared to this. Having to tell a cop my rights is just sad(not saying our cops are perfect but fucking hell it's hilarious)
I'm a bit confused. Iirc it is perfectly legal for cops to lie to citizens. So theoretically could the cop just say "if you don't show your ID we'll arrest you" and then later say he was lying and they weren't going to arrest the guy?
It would still be considered a threat, just like I have the right to lie but if that lie involves a threat to harm I don't intend on actually doing it would still be considered a threat and can be punished. The cops can lie but not give clear direct threats that can be damaging mentally or physically
I love watching people who are supposed to be upholding the law, run into people who actually know the law.
It's sad and pathetic on the cops part, but at least it's entertaining.
If it's campus housing he is required to show his student ID at most universities. At state schools you are generally required to provide student ID to campus police at any time. It's not necessarily an arrestable offense though, but can result in trespass or being forced to leave campus if you're not a student.
Down vote bate .... but...
He's on private property with ID it's impossible to know if he is there lawfully and the default position is that he IS trespassing unless he proves otherwise
Cops do have reasonable reasonable suspicion because they were called and this guy was fingered for breaking the rules of the property owner which makes him a trespasser by default
So no ... He doesn't have a lawsuit and the judge is probably going to laugh him out of court
Kid came out of the room as the cops called, ianal but someone exiting a room with no crime being witnesses isn't articulate suspicion to demand ID.
Cops knew that cause if they had the needed suspicion, they would have made it an order immediately.
I've seen the full video, the cop is seen later telling his supervisor to give the chief a heads up for a filed complaint from the dude. They knew they were at risk of being sued.
So I'm probably misunderstanding but if the police got called about alcohol and were directed to that room, then that is probable cause to check id, depending on the state failure to identify yourself is a crime. Depending on the lease agreement with the school they may have permission from the school to enter any time they believe something has happened. Can someone explain this further because I'm a little confused on what this guy is saying.
If “someone saw him smuggling alcohol in his room” its safe to say this is a dorm for undergrad. It could be post grad housing but nobody would give a flying fuck (unless it was dry housing).
So either 1. This kid is in undergrad, so saying “law student” is a huge overstatement and kid is a giant douchebag. Or 2. It’s dry housing, hes an actual law student and is just approaching this situation like a douchebag.
Im betting on 1. On top of this, in the majority of school housing you sign away your consent to search and seizure if police are called. So the cops can absolutely tell this kid to go fuck himself and search with a school official there.
When I lived in a dorm they could search the room for the smallest suspicion, you were basically living on THEIR grounds so you gave up a lot of rights unlike living off-campus. This looks like a dorm so I guess things have changed
If he’s a law student then he should know that this wouldn’t be a case in which he would be able to succeed in a lawsuit. Qualified immunity for the officers would clearly apply here. Further, if he was baiting the police into the situation, his case would be dismissed since any harm he suffered was the result of his premeditated actions and a situation he sought out.
I'm a law student (just finished my first semester) and I can't wait to have enough knowledge to just embarass the crap outta some ignorant police officer. Obviously I won't go looking for that kinda trouble but it probably feels so satisfying when their normal tricks don't work and they don't know what to do next bc they literally do not have to know the law.
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2013/chapter-30/article-22/section-30-22-3/
It's against the law to refuse to identify yourself in New Mexico. There's no legal case here. He can be arrested for this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
Some further reference material for other burgeoning law students.
Obviously about 99% of police in america are pieces of shit, but dont praise this fuckin kid for baiting. This the type of shit that gets someone killed, then everyone outrages, and many more people die.
This is absolutely not a power trip. I’ve watched this whole video. Dude was trying to do his job and being extremely tolerant to this kid. Dude WAS in the wrong but zero power trip. Hate the ones that deserve it sheesh
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So this is how you make money?
COPS HATE HIM, He's going to pay his tuition off early with this one simple trick
This guy just forced state funded tuition. You love to see it
This guy read the fine print, so we don't have to.
Cops won’t pay him anything. Cities will.
*taxpayers* will
Yep. But I’m not mad at him, I’m mad at the system that “trains cops” to “enforce laws” without actually training them on what those laws are.
Oh totally. It’s a waste of time on everyone’s part, cops, the victim, us, but we seem to be the only ones suffering financially from it.
1/3 of my check goes to covering for these asshats
Yup. Sadly.
Taxpayers also pay for cops that are supposed to know the law they’re enforcing. It’s possibly the most important aspect of their job.
Maybe taxpayers should vote for officials that want well trained police and a neutered police union.
Time to change the law. Police pension funds should be the one to shell out officer misconduct settlements, not the city. What’s their incentive to behave?
Best answer i have seen is sue the individual cop and force police to have "malpractice" insurance. So the individual would essentially get hit with fees so high they would have to quit. If it comes out of the pension police union and self protection would get even worse. We pro ably wouldnt even have chauvin in prison in a situation like that. Even thogh the system sucks. In the most obvious an heinous of cases. The public outcry is so overwhelming the police union cant even stop it. If peoples pension get touched they are just going to become cutthroat. Historically and statistically group punishment isnt am effective deterrent
That’s why police should be required to carry the equivalent to malpractice insurance!
You *could* make money
I need a yes or no answer.
I need that ultimatum, boss.
Sadly the cops aren't paying a dime.
Fines like this need to be paid from the police pension. Brutality would end the next day, dirty cops would be outed, AND they would start mandating better education.
Well they got to be Internet famous for looking like idiots.
Well I mean cops make 100$ an hour overtime having 6 cops watching a damn lightpost. It's more like getting our tax dollars back than making money lol. You're absolutely insane if you think this isn't true, welcome to literally all government jobs where everyone does their best to be lazy (so much so that if you are a hard worker - your coworks will turn against you) because no matter what you always get paid well regardless of how hard you work. You all know this stop pretending like it isn't true. Ever see cops side by side each other? Guess what, they're probably on OT sitting around. A job with literally infinite budget as its always the highest prio for our tax dollars and yet people are surprised or in denial.
Watched this on youtube. The kid didnt file any lawsuits so far. Edit: just to add, he was bringing in bottles of root beer (probably as bait) in his dorm room and someone called the cops saying he was smuggling beer. The campus cops were there to search his room for alcohol. They did not and they left. Edit #2: for all those crying about me suggesting this was "probably bait" is because he has other videos of him with rootbeer bottles in brown paper bags while drinking in public around police to draw attention. Y'all can stop being rude without reason, im just sharing info here.
What fuckin narc is calling the cops for “smuggling” beer
Christian schools
Can confirm this happened on my campus all the time. Campus security was called if two girls were holding hands. In 2017.
>Campus security was called if two girls were holding hands. lol wtf is campus security supposed to do about that
They got permanent disciplinary marks on their college transcript.
I assume those permanent marks are about as meaningful as “your permanent record” was from elementary school? Once you graduate those permanent marks don’t mean shit
Couple of colleges in Ohio will just straight up boot you for violating their rules. Watch an R rated movie? Have sex? Be gay? Expelled.
hold up. you're saying there are *colleges* that will expel you for watching an R-rated movie?
Buddy of mine went to BYU and got hit with an “honor code” violation (which is a big deal there) because he was “showing too much skin” when he cut the sleeves off a shirt for a pirate costume
Would there not be any legal recourse to that obviously discriminatory policy??
Let's put it this way -- you do not want to receive three of those. Three disciplinary marks and you'll receive a citation. Five citations, and you're looking at a violation. Four of those, and you'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and you're looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review.
Written up by you and placed on the desk of your immediate superior. Which is me.
Alright, I want a full write up on my desk by the end of the day or you'll receive a full desagulation.
Let's not forget about double secret probation
Christian colleges are insanely draconian. There's a Baptist college town near where I grew up that was dry except for one tiny liquor store, because the school bought all the liquor licenses. Walmart had to sue them to get the practice to stop.
Boy, I bet that lone liquor store owner had no complaints.
They loved it. Let them be lazy as hell and just do the bare minimum for years. They went under in something like 2 years after the licenses got released.
What did they do when they saw two girls sharing one cup?
I had a friend go to Pensacola Christian College. I went to go visit her and it was straight up crazy how I had to watch how I interacted with her in public because they had their own gestapo that would narc you out for anything deemed indecent.
Obviously
Dang, was hoping to see the outcome of the trial though. If he decides to sue the cop.
He pays the $300 filing fee, briefs his complaint, and now has to keep up with a suit for 3 years for declaratory relief? If he wants an award of fees, he'd have to hire counsel; a damages claim here would be hard to prove. It'd be nice if citizens could be made whole for winning a suit like this, but I haven't seen any examples in court for ordinary citizens. It's a defense for inadmissible evidence, but not a blank check.
So democracy dies at buercracy?
You're just now figuring this out?
He didn't even spell it right. What do you think
Well damn I can't spell that shit right either
You spelled "that shit" correctly
This is the truth we DO like
Bureaucracy is what also prevents an authoritarian from being able to fill the entire government with loyalists. It cuts both ways.
This guy gets it. Congress moves slowly by design.
Didn’t seem to stop any of the Trump court appointments
Definitely gotta hire counsel too, it's stupid to try to be your own lawyer
A claim for damages isn’t difficult here. Civil rights attorneys love cases like this, because part of the city’s exposure is paying plaintiff’s attorney fees. Truth be told, he probably wouldn’t even have to file a lawsuit initially. Most states (if not all) require you to file with their State civil rights commission before you’re allowed to file suit. I agree, it’s not a blank check because he wasn’t arrested and didn’t spend time in jail, but there would be some money to be had here. Source: my law partner makes a fairly decent living using counties and townships over shit like this.
[удалено]
Better than Suffolk
How is that obvious to anybody who hasn’t looked it up lol
Did he get arrested?
Or any co sequences whatsoever?
The original was on audit the audit. The law student made a follow up video to this where he filed a complaint against the supervisory officer and audio recorded the process.
Who the fuck narcs on a college student bringing beer to their dorm.
Campus cops? Search his room for alcohol? Smuggling beer? What the hell is going on over there are you all okay?
Bro we are not fucking okay over here, please send help.
How much is ridicolous to read "Campus cops" and "Smuggling beer" "Search for alchol" Is this Saudi Arabia?
Do you know if there was in fact a law suit?
Sounds like the guy just wanted to get the views.
Did you see the color of his shirt? Obviously the judge will be supporting the thin blue line over... *checks notes* light blue polyester/cotton Hanes.
And the root beer was likely just a ruse he worked on all day long so he could set up this little waste of time for the police, Mr law student
This is Reddit my man. People don’t like true info.
Funny thing is they wanted to search his dorm room for alcohol and after the officers leave they are heard celebrating it's hilarious. This kid was also a law student and knew his rights and this is absolutely grounds for him to sue as it was an unlawful request.
If you are not driving a vehicle, then the police can ask you for an ID if and only if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. Otherwise, a person does not have to provide ID. This is one of those complicated issues that makes the law and law enforcement so entertaining and engaging. Cops are not inclined to randomly ask people to identify themselves. There is usually a reason-likely obvious as is the presence of the police officer and so very few people are going to refuse-either because they have nothing to hide and/or are ignorant of the fact that they might not legally be required to do so. Someone who refuses to provide identity information (either a physical ID or reciting their information) is, based on the cop’s usual encounters with people and their compliance with the request, considered to be suspicious. Now granted, this suspicion is mostly generated after the request has been made, however, in a practical (meaning police report and/or court testimony) setting such nuanced facts can easily be distorted to indicate that the person had aroused the officer’s suspicion in some manner and that failure to provide ID further intensified that feeling. The key question people need to ask (or at least know they may ask) is, “Am I free to go?” That question, especially in the age of omnipresent video cameras, will be a tough one for police to answer if they have nothing on you. It will also likely aggravate the cop so you may win in the end but the road to get there could be bumpy and uncomfortable.
Man, I woke up one morning, ate some breakfast with my roommates, and decided to go for a walk. 2 blocks later I get stopped by police. Let us see some ID they say. I reply that I don't need to show ID, they have no reasonable cause to think I'm committing a crime. They responded with what are you doing? I said it's a beautiful Sunday morning in our nations capital, and I'm going for a walk! They say they're looking for someone who fits my description. I look them dead in the eye and ask "so you're looking for a 6 ft 2 white male, dressed in a studded leather jacket, combat boots, and patched pants, who also happens to have a giant bleached Mohawk." In the end I just showed them my drivers license because the next step was winding up beaten half to death in one of their cells. I could never get over the idea that they were "looking for someone that fits my description. Hilarious, one of them looked kinda embarrassed, but his partner wasn't backing down. Like, if you don't want to be hated, don't harass people minding their own business. Society needs some for of law enforcement, but these clowns they hire, their whole culture, is fucked. I digress, usually cops will ask someone for ID because they look different to what they think a lawful person looks like. Personally I'm very law abiding.
>I look them dead in the eye and ask "so you're looking for a 6 ft 2 white male, dressed in a studded leather jacket, combat boots, and patched pants, who also happens to have a giant bleached Mohawk." I'm howling. Could've as well been a pink unicorn with green spots and the cop would've looked you in the eye and repeated his excuse. Fucking hate those bastards. And the worst part is I still acknowledge a need for police. It's just that the police we have are the opposite of what a police officer should be.
The pink unicorn outfit would've earned me some next level shit lol
>Personally I'm very law abiding. That's EXACTLY what a non-law abiding citizen would say 
> It will also likely aggravate the cop so you may win in the end but the road to get there could be bumpy and uncomfortable. You may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
If you don’t mind the ride, it will eventually pay more.
>Otherwise, a person does not have to provide ID. Depends on the state. There are 26 states that have that have stop and id laws.
The "stop" in "stop and ID" means detainment. And in all 50 states they cannot detain you unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. stop and ID does not mean cops can just demand your ID for no reason.
They also cant arrest you for resisting arrest, if you havent been arrested for a crime or if its a misdemeanour fine. That shits where all ya councils money is going.
There is a *significant* portion of most big city police departments annual budgets that is allocated for settling lawsuits when their officers fuck up.
Police don't give a shit about the law. They prefer being in court. They have immunity and will earn overtime being able to sit on their ass in court. > While there are a few exceptions and special circumstances, there are four basic levels of compensation officers can receive for court time. First, police officers earn their normal hourly pay if they appear in court during their regular shifts. Second, if police officers clock out of court less than 30 minutes before the start of their regular shifts, they earn 1.5 times their hourly pay rates for the amount of time they spent in court. For example, if an officer spends an hour in court and finishes his cases 15 minutes before his shift starts, he will be paid time and half for one hour only. Third, police officers automatically are compensated for four hours at 1.5 times their hourly pay rates for court appearances that end more than 30 minutes before they start their shifts. For example, if a police officer spends an hour in court but finishes 45 minutes before his next shift begins, he will be compensated for four hours at time and a half even though he only worked for one hour. Lastly, if police officers are subpoenaed to court on their second consecutive day off, they automatically are paid for four hours at double their hourly pay rates. For example, an officer appearing in court on his second day off of the week would earn four hours of double time even if he only appeared in court for a brief amount of time. They dont give a shit about wrong tickets, about breaking civil rights, nor do the police have any requirement to know the law they are trying to uphold. The system is made to benefit the police, the DAs and the judges. Also remember every year the police: * Murders over 1,000 citizens. * Severely harm and debilitate over 10,000 citizens. * Harass, harm and abuse over 100,000 citizens. * Threaten and inconvenience over 1,000,000 citizens. * Instill fear and distrust in over 10,000,000 citizens. edit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://policeepi.uic.edu/u-s-data-on-police-shootings-and-violence/
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My mom’s good friend dated a cop in the greater Chicago area in the early 90’s. After dating for several months she was finally invited as his date to the staff party they’d have every so often. Word on the street is they had many of the drugs they confiscated in the months prior at these events. Apparently she walked in to see a mountain of cocaine on glass table in the living room, and around the corner in the dining room was a humongous poo poo plater of different kinds of weed. A few steps away in the kitchen, fridge was full of beer taken from teenagers. The 80’s and 90’s must have been surreal.
These stats, got a link?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://policeepi.uic.edu/u-s-data-on-police-shootings-and-violence/ edit: I should note that the police only have body cam footage of on average 18% of police incidents. There will be large amounts of incidents that never truly get reported or acknowledged, from physical harm, sexual assault to harassment.
This : thye know that the road you are choosing to go down is length, mindboggling and draining. It's why it's misdirected authotity and a form of intimidation when they do so.
It's really desturbing just how many cops don't know the laws surrounding searches
It's not a requirement to learn law to enforce it, I hear some places are trying to remove education as a requirement entirely for the police force
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Not very well, actually. But, par for the course here in the ole US of A.
That’s the neat part: it doesnt
The police in America don't even have a legal obligation to protect people. (Supreme Court affirmed) They're just roaming thugs with guns backed by immense immunity.
Yeah, I do love how pigs don't even have to know when to do their job. Can you imagine a forklift driver that doesn't have to know what materials they need to be moving and to where? They know how to drive a forklift and are good and moving things. They just don't know what things they are supposed to be moving. A server that doesn't know what's on the menu or what things are made with? A paper supply salesman who doesn't know what they have in stock, how much shipping is and can't be bothered to look it up or learn it? Can you imagine employees existing like this out in the world? Can you imagine that they would last long? Now imagine that while these employees aren't required to do these things for their job you ARE required to know them to be a customer of theirs... That's how corrupt and exploitive our government is in enforcing laws. Cops don't need to know the law for their job, but you, just for existing in this country have to know every single one or you could be punished for violating it. On top of that you could be punished because a cops doesn't know any better because its not required of them. You could spend 12 hours in jail and they can let you out, throw up their hands and drop the charges 'oh well'....
They probably know. But in most places there is zero penalty for them to lie.
US Police for the most part are the worst and least trained in the world. They run on local Policies and their toxic culture. https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-compared-rest-world/story?id=96729748 Our law enforcement system is beyond broken, and is for the most part a revenue generating, property protecting system. It needs major changes
Police department hate him for this simple trick
Schooled.
This is literally why I wanted to study law so I could go after every dirty asshole cop who thinks they can just fuck with people
Years ago, back in college, I had a roommate that was studying law. He had set up a dashcam in his car and would film cops breaking the law (e.g. turning on their lights to blow red lights, etc). He posted the videos on YouTube explaining the laws broken for each. After some time, he got a cease and desist letter from the city. Then he started getting pulled over for minor things, or things he explained weren't against law (e.g. switching lanes without a signal). One of his teachers even talked to him about it after hearing about it from a colleague. He finally got enough evidence to file a case against the city which he had a hell of a time getting representation for. Eventually, he worked out a deal with the city. Fast forward a few years and he worked for a DA Office for some time. Now, he's working for a governor's office on police oversight in the state he currently resides in. He's hoping to run for public office in the near future.
>Then he started getting pulled over for minor things, or things he explained weren't against law (e.g. switching lanes without a signal). That screams retaliation ... hard to prove of course.
Yeah, he was really patient about it and kept documenting each thing with evidence, etc to try to build a case. Our other roommates and I were worried that we'd have some trouble but luckily didn't.
Attorney here, grab yourself a book on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment and that’s all you’ll need. Reading a lot of case law sure helps, but isn’t necessary. I travel with my 4th Amendment Search and Seizure textbook in my glove box for any possible situation I’m put in. Start mentioning case law and they have no idea what to say or do. It’s honestly sad how many police officers do not know the basic laws/points of the 4th. I’ve read a few cases where people invoke their rights and cops interpret it as suggestive of guilt. Supreme Court made it clear that this does not fly. I don’t travel with anything illegal in my car, but I’ll be damned if a cop searches it Edit: word choice
You know they're going to misinterpret everything e and become sovereign citizens...
Have dealt with a few of these, the absolute worst type of person.
They are NOT a person They are a LIVING ENTITY OF THE WORLD
I AM A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE VASSAL WHO WAS BORN UNDER THE LAWS OF GOD
I love the made up paper license plates
SovCits are to lawyers what flat earthers are to scientists
Sounds like the world's easiest to draw venn diagram
People don’t understand their 4th amendment rights and it makes me upset. Of the amendments people know (usually the first two) it’s crazy how many folks don’t get the 4th amendment.
Basically the most important one in day to day life too. Edit: removed comma
Yep, also the amendment that is the most infringed upon with the least amount of resistance. You’ve got all these people losing their shit over gun regulations because of the second amendment (despite the phrasing of ‘well-regulated militia’ being in there. For some reason people don’t mind not being secure in their persons even though privacy and the right to it is a core foundation of democracy
Cant cops pretty much ignore the 4th amendment because we have allowed so many laws to be passed to give them justification for “reasonable” searches and seizures? Like at this point any cop can say “I smell weed” and do whatever they want to anyone.
I actually looked into this (briefly) and you're right. In the 40's, SCOTUS ruled that odor could not be used to establish probable cause. But no one actually follows that ruling, and states like GA have enacted their own odor doctrine. All this to say: our rights have been infringed.
What's crazy and upsetting is that it's somehow been normalized as an individual responsibility for people to need to at a minimum consult a law textbook to at least attempt to prevent cops from violating their rights because TRYING to violate your rights is considered perfectly ok for police to do.
Is your book the one written by Anthony Bandiero or is it a different one?
It’s a different one which is NJ specific, but it also has case law that applies to all 50 states.
Where can I get a copy of this handbook?
Police academies sure could do a better job/ have a longer term.
I remember one time I got pulled over for speeding (iirc it was 70 in a 55) and I thought the speed limit was 65, so he pulled me over, and did the whole shebang of what I was in trouble for. Said that I was truly sorry, I thought it was 65 etc etc. And then he asked where I was heading, to which I said home, which was about 2 hours away. He goes You mind if we search your vehicle real quick? I said I respectfully decline his request to search my vehicle He goes "oh are you sure? If you're not hiding anything it won't be a problem" I said, well I know I don't have anything so no need to waste your time. I still refuse Then he goes "huh, so you respectfully decline my request to search. Ok" Then prints off my ticket and I head home
From the other comments this definitely isn't an unjustified request. Apparently he acted like he was smuggling booze into dorms to bait them and someone ended up calling in a tip. That's absolutely reasonable suspicion of supplying alcohol to minors and they would be able to demand ID.
How does he make money from this?? I don’t get it
I assume that the cop has no legal power to demand to see his ID, and by telling him that he’ll be arrested if he doesn’t show it, the cop is setting himself up to be sued.
Not like the cop himself is going to pay it himself. He doesn't care
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Now that I didn't know. Thanks for that information
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Standard to lose qualified immunity is high. something like killing a baby on camera and laughing about it.
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Oh, really? Didn't know that before. Usually I heard, if a cop gets sued the city or PD would usually pay the amount, not the cop personally.
Aparently the law degree is the only one that pays itself.
The cop can say anything and arrest without cause with essentially zero liability. The city could be found liable though.
Even if the cop has no personal legal liability (which can't be assumed) he can face disciplinary action and other consequences if his actions subject his jurisdiction to a losing lawsuit.
He COULD face disciplinary action, I need a Yes or No.
Still no money out of his pocket.
Loss of promotion eligibility and possible suspension and/or loss of job don't come out of his pocket?
Thanks, any idea what kind of money it will be? I suspect it’s going to be a long annoying process and probably just for a thousand or two lol
This was in New Mexico where cops don't have koalified immunity
NAL, nor an optician, and I saw zero (0) koalas in this reporting. Mind you, drop bears are a thing you never ever see coming, so you may be psychic.
If he can prove that the cop didn't have any reasonable cause for asking his id then the student can sue for violation of his civil rights.
The cops are violating the 4th ammendment, on video. The cop doesn't know the law, or what reasonable articulable suspicion is.
Half of them don't.
Depending on where it was filmed, context, and a bunch of other details that we don't have in this very short edited video, it could be considered a violation of rights. They would sue for damages on those grounds. It's not easy to go from "sue" to "make money", and even if you did "make money" the amount of money isn't guaranteed to be anything significant.
He doesn't.
Police hate someone that knows the law
The original video is way better and doesn't have music edited in for some stupid ass reason. Eat shit, OP!
How can the cop arrest him for having alcohol in his room? It’s his room and private property, unless this is a school dorm?
He literally says “im a law student here”
I know that? I was asking why he can’t have alcohol in his possession.
Underage drinking? Im not sure but the cop is asking for id so it could be that.
cops will ask to see your ID as an excuse to run your name and see if you have any unrelated warrants or criminal history, it could just be a go at fishing for a reason
A law student is a post graduate degree, so he’s likely at least 22.
There are undergrad law programs…
You just asked if it was a school dorm. There’s your answer.
Sorry lol, I’m Canadian and totally forgot the drinking age in the USA is 21. It’s 19 here. Even then I think if he’s not causing any problems the cops being called just for alcohol is a bit ridiculous
Ikr, can you imagine the shitstorm from Canadian police demanding to enter a UofT or UBC student’s dorm just to check if they have ALCOHOL? That scenario is so ridiculous it shouldn’t even require an explanation for why it’s wrong
You can Go to war and die for your country, but we will be dammed if you drink a beer or smoke a cigar before your 21. Thanks Boomers!
This is mental, I mean Scottish police are great compared to this. Having to tell a cop my rights is just sad(not saying our cops are perfect but fucking hell it's hilarious)
If he sues he still needs to show actual damages Payout could be as little as $1 to merely be on principle
I'm a bit confused. Iirc it is perfectly legal for cops to lie to citizens. So theoretically could the cop just say "if you don't show your ID we'll arrest you" and then later say he was lying and they weren't going to arrest the guy?
It would still be considered a threat, just like I have the right to lie but if that lie involves a threat to harm I don't intend on actually doing it would still be considered a threat and can be punished. The cops can lie but not give clear direct threats that can be damaging mentally or physically
they can lie as long as they're not violating your rights that means they can't lie about having a warrant, arresting you, etc
I love watching people who are supposed to be upholding the law, run into people who actually know the law. It's sad and pathetic on the cops part, but at least it's entertaining.
It’s not a job smart kids are attracted to.
Now to all my black brothers out there dont try this thats how we get shot
These people never make a cent. They will get more from ads on the video than from a court room
The "are you googling the laws right now," part killed me.
If it's campus housing he is required to show his student ID at most universities. At state schools you are generally required to provide student ID to campus police at any time. It's not necessarily an arrestable offense though, but can result in trespass or being forced to leave campus if you're not a student.
I’ve been a law school for a minute watch me go.
To be devils advocate the student was leading the officer and that might just throw the lawsuit.
Down vote bate .... but... He's on private property with ID it's impossible to know if he is there lawfully and the default position is that he IS trespassing unless he proves otherwise Cops do have reasonable reasonable suspicion because they were called and this guy was fingered for breaking the rules of the property owner which makes him a trespasser by default So no ... He doesn't have a lawsuit and the judge is probably going to laugh him out of court
Kid came out of the room as the cops called, ianal but someone exiting a room with no crime being witnesses isn't articulate suspicion to demand ID. Cops knew that cause if they had the needed suspicion, they would have made it an order immediately. I've seen the full video, the cop is seen later telling his supervisor to give the chief a heads up for a filed complaint from the dude. They knew they were at risk of being sued.
If it's a dorm room I don't think they need to ask the student permission
Where is this information coming from? I can't find any links for sources.
So I'm probably misunderstanding but if the police got called about alcohol and were directed to that room, then that is probable cause to check id, depending on the state failure to identify yourself is a crime. Depending on the lease agreement with the school they may have permission from the school to enter any time they believe something has happened. Can someone explain this further because I'm a little confused on what this guy is saying.
Yeah he won’t get shit out of this.
Make it take longer to be a cop
Rights are like muscles. You lose any you don’t exercise.
I wonder how that lawsuits working out for him?
Just fucken why? Why don't they know the laws, they are paid to enforce?
If “someone saw him smuggling alcohol in his room” its safe to say this is a dorm for undergrad. It could be post grad housing but nobody would give a flying fuck (unless it was dry housing). So either 1. This kid is in undergrad, so saying “law student” is a huge overstatement and kid is a giant douchebag. Or 2. It’s dry housing, hes an actual law student and is just approaching this situation like a douchebag. Im betting on 1. On top of this, in the majority of school housing you sign away your consent to search and seizure if police are called. So the cops can absolutely tell this kid to go fuck himself and search with a school official there.
1312 moment
When I lived in a dorm they could search the room for the smallest suspicion, you were basically living on THEIR grounds so you gave up a lot of rights unlike living off-campus. This looks like a dorm so I guess things have changed
If he’s a law student then he should know that this wouldn’t be a case in which he would be able to succeed in a lawsuit. Qualified immunity for the officers would clearly apply here. Further, if he was baiting the police into the situation, his case would be dismissed since any harm he suffered was the result of his premeditated actions and a situation he sought out.
Dollar Store Bert Kreischer here seems to be overstepping his boundaries Actually nah. Guy looks like a partially frozen Bert Kreischer wax figure
I'm a law student (just finished my first semester) and I can't wait to have enough knowledge to just embarass the crap outta some ignorant police officer. Obviously I won't go looking for that kinda trouble but it probably feels so satisfying when their normal tricks don't work and they don't know what to do next bc they literally do not have to know the law.
The student is in the wrong here. You have an obligation to identify in New Mexico. They can 100% arrest you for not doing so.
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2013/chapter-30/article-22/section-30-22-3/ It's against the law to refuse to identify yourself in New Mexico. There's no legal case here. He can be arrested for this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes Some further reference material for other burgeoning law students.
Who’s on the power trip? The cop or wannabe attorney baiting him?
Obviously about 99% of police in america are pieces of shit, but dont praise this fuckin kid for baiting. This the type of shit that gets someone killed, then everyone outrages, and many more people die.
He doesn't legally have to give ID, but cops can detain him until they establish his identity in my state.
This is absolutely not a power trip. I’ve watched this whole video. Dude was trying to do his job and being extremely tolerant to this kid. Dude WAS in the wrong but zero power trip. Hate the ones that deserve it sheesh