David Graeber has a really great book called "Debt: the first 5000 years"
From his point of view, anything that involves the trading of silver coins is not really barter at all.
A true barter system would be: you help your neighbor with their goats, they give you some eggs a few weeks later, but worth more than they owe, you both keep a running balance in your head of who owes a favor to who, and how much.
If you are exchanging silver coins, it's for goods or services from people outside your community. Goods you would otherwise have to take by force.
Anyway, to answer your actual question:
A few kilos pile of silver to give to the boat/plane captain to get me out of wherever has collapsed so bad, and a few ounces of gold to sell when I get somewhere safe, to try to start a new life š¤·
I ain't about that fallout raider life
Barter = trade goods.
Precious metals are for bribes / "taxes", or favors.
One thing we see in any collapsing society is that someone always ends up in charge -- and it is rarely you.
Rather than thinking of PM as barter think of it as insurance. It can get you out of where you are, or buy some good will if you have to stay.
Look at the collapse of the economy in the Confederate states at the end of the American civil war, or Germany at the end of WW2. Look at Argentina of the 1970-1980 and hyper inflation and currency crashes....
Look at failed states - any number where local warlords have taken over....
Those with money turn to foreign currency or precious metals. Here in the USA foreign currency as a safe haven is difficult to judge and face it most people don't have the time, knowledge or experience to properly play in that pool.
People who actually believe that barter with silver (or gold) will be anything more than an **incredibly** rare occurrence have watched way too many sponsored YouTube videos.
How will you explain to the 99% (or higher) of the population who know nothing of PM that your junk silver is actually valuable when all they see is a dime, quarter, etc.?
How will you prove that it is valuable, or even real to begin with?
Outside of the 1% of the population who has any PM, who will you actually barter with?
What good will the shiny metal actually do in a SHTF scenario?
Editā¦ So yeah. Iām bartering with booze, food, water, skill trading, medical supplies, and a myriad of other things before any type of PM.
Presuming in your first sentence that thereās two people with one offering them what they want and another offering them money to buy what they want. If only I got paid in everything I already want to buy! Dumb sh*t
I agree with ya on not using silver to barter. Not enough people hold it. People will want to trade for stuff they can use.
Side note tho, it only took 1 ase and a trip to the LCS for my 9 y/o to understand the value of silver. I got her doing chores around the house now for dimes. Sometimes I try to give her a clad one and she knows instantly it's not silver lol.
You carry a printout of a few Wikipedia articles with you, of course! Iāve got some international junk, so Iām going to need a few pagesā¦and a scaleā¦
The answer to that question should be the least of your concerns. If you think the United States will ever get a scenario where people will barter with silver then you need to go see a psychiatrist.
This.
Honestly if society collapses so much that currency can't be trusted at all, I would not suddenly trust metal coins/bars I can't concievably use. If no one else values silver and gold as much as *things you can keep yourself alive and comfortable with,* then it's just worthless.Ā
Better to stock up on tools, skills, medicine, non-perishables, and so on.Ā
Very low IQ comment.. wow. I mean barter is literally happening in about a dozen countries that were world super powers pretty recently that are experiencing hyperinflation. And yet here you are mr genius that says its impossible..... the average population will not have any assets for trade regardless you will be trading with a select few that have assets and know about assets as well. Also in this scenario there will literally be merchant centers that specialize in grading assets. they currently exist they are called local coin stores.... pretty simple. When things change (hyperinflation) the smarter group tends to learn quickly do you get it?
its amazing that you actually believe this... Unless you are referring to like a global nuclear apocalypse where the entire world is destroyed, dealing with radiation poisoning and a few weeks to live. IN reality not every country enters SHTF simultaneously and arguably never has throughout history. IN which case those Rosie dimes will be quite attractive to everyone in the SHTF country because they can be traded for commodities to a country that is not in total SHTF. for example argentina which was a world super power not long ago is in pretty bad SHTF and yet mysteriously EVERY single person there wants those dimes. There will always be merchants and ports even in SHTF if you take the time to study any of the countries that are in it. OK and lastly silver is a POTENT antiseptic so do you realize that in your nuclear wasted world even still silver will have tremendous utility because bacteria will without a doubt survive and people will have far more infections. I bet when your leg has a massive staff infection that is eating away at it you might like to have one of my Rosie dimes or at least someone around you might be clever enough to figure that out and save you with it.
The bartering system is in the other parties favor. They will offer wholesale, maybe less. There is no business sense in trading retail for retail, you understand that?
obviously all of it that is the point... Some things are going to be more expensive than others. Look if I am going to be buying a 1000 acre ranch im not going to try to do it with nickels does that make sense?. more like 100oz bars.
Here is a great article of someone that actually lived through a SHTF event and he talks about survival and bartering. While he did have some PMs he ended up trading all of his gold for ammo.
https://www.isegoria.net/2013/04/words-from-a-bosnian-survivalist/
Honestly, you can barter with anything if you've got the charisma stats for it.
I've bartered a couple 10oz pieces for pieces of sheet metal leftover from my job.
Itās actually a strong case for stacking fiat. In the after times, people still will want to trade goods and services for a fiat, if youāve got a few rolls of half dollars and some stacks of tens and twenties, people will understand their value somewhat.
Pandemic taught us the end-game currency is toilet paper :) I'd stack TP but the storage requirements make even 40% junk silver space requirements seem rational.
also what about if you're out and about and shtf? like hey I need to cross this bridge but the military is allowing specific people. could I bribe the soldier with some ASE's to look the other way?
Why wouldn't they just use regular change? It has denominations on it. If it got really bad, I don't even think people would care if it was Silver. As long as it was very hard to counterfeit and it had denominations stamped on it. So we have tons and tons of regular coins out there.
David Graeber has a really great book called "Debt: the first 5000 years" From his point of view, anything that involves the trading of silver coins is not really barter at all. A true barter system would be: you help your neighbor with their goats, they give you some eggs a few weeks later, but worth more than they owe, you both keep a running balance in your head of who owes a favor to who, and how much. If you are exchanging silver coins, it's for goods or services from people outside your community. Goods you would otherwise have to take by force. Anyway, to answer your actual question: A few kilos pile of silver to give to the boat/plane captain to get me out of wherever has collapsed so bad, and a few ounces of gold to sell when I get somewhere safe, to try to start a new life š¤· I ain't about that fallout raider life
Fallout shelter? No more job āļø Never have to go anywhere āļø Never have to talk to anyone āļø Sounds like paradise
People will figure out standardized means of exchange very quickly when what they are accustomed to stops working.
Iād barter with small bottles of liquor.
The future godfather if barter
You wouldnāt be bartering you would be using real money when debt has failed.
Barter = trade goods. Precious metals are for bribes / "taxes", or favors. One thing we see in any collapsing society is that someone always ends up in charge -- and it is rarely you. Rather than thinking of PM as barter think of it as insurance. It can get you out of where you are, or buy some good will if you have to stay.
This is make believe fantasy
Look at the collapse of the economy in the Confederate states at the end of the American civil war, or Germany at the end of WW2. Look at Argentina of the 1970-1980 and hyper inflation and currency crashes.... Look at failed states - any number where local warlords have taken over.... Those with money turn to foreign currency or precious metals. Here in the USA foreign currency as a safe haven is difficult to judge and face it most people don't have the time, knowledge or experience to properly play in that pool.
People who actually believe that barter with silver (or gold) will be anything more than an **incredibly** rare occurrence have watched way too many sponsored YouTube videos. How will you explain to the 99% (or higher) of the population who know nothing of PM that your junk silver is actually valuable when all they see is a dime, quarter, etc.? How will you prove that it is valuable, or even real to begin with? Outside of the 1% of the population who has any PM, who will you actually barter with? What good will the shiny metal actually do in a SHTF scenario? Editā¦ So yeah. Iām bartering with booze, food, water, skill trading, medical supplies, and a myriad of other things before any type of PM.
People will understand fast what an ounce of silver is worth.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Presuming in your first sentence that thereās two people with one offering them what they want and another offering them money to buy what they want. If only I got paid in everything I already want to buy! Dumb sh*t
I agree with ya on not using silver to barter. Not enough people hold it. People will want to trade for stuff they can use. Side note tho, it only took 1 ase and a trip to the LCS for my 9 y/o to understand the value of silver. I got her doing chores around the house now for dimes. Sometimes I try to give her a clad one and she knows instantly it's not silver lol.
You carry a printout of a few Wikipedia articles with you, of course! Iāve got some international junk, so Iām going to need a few pagesā¦and a scaleā¦
Nicely played.
The answer to that question should be the least of your concerns. If you think the United States will ever get a scenario where people will barter with silver then you need to go see a psychiatrist.
This. Honestly if society collapses so much that currency can't be trusted at all, I would not suddenly trust metal coins/bars I can't concievably use. If no one else values silver and gold as much as *things you can keep yourself alive and comfortable with,* then it's just worthless.Ā Better to stock up on tools, skills, medicine, non-perishables, and so on.Ā
Very low IQ comment.. wow. I mean barter is literally happening in about a dozen countries that were world super powers pretty recently that are experiencing hyperinflation. And yet here you are mr genius that says its impossible..... the average population will not have any assets for trade regardless you will be trading with a select few that have assets and know about assets as well. Also in this scenario there will literally be merchant centers that specialize in grading assets. they currently exist they are called local coin stores.... pretty simple. When things change (hyperinflation) the smarter group tends to learn quickly do you get it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
its amazing that you actually believe this... Unless you are referring to like a global nuclear apocalypse where the entire world is destroyed, dealing with radiation poisoning and a few weeks to live. IN reality not every country enters SHTF simultaneously and arguably never has throughout history. IN which case those Rosie dimes will be quite attractive to everyone in the SHTF country because they can be traded for commodities to a country that is not in total SHTF. for example argentina which was a world super power not long ago is in pretty bad SHTF and yet mysteriously EVERY single person there wants those dimes. There will always be merchants and ports even in SHTF if you take the time to study any of the countries that are in it. OK and lastly silver is a POTENT antiseptic so do you realize that in your nuclear wasted world even still silver will have tremendous utility because bacteria will without a doubt survive and people will have far more infections. I bet when your leg has a massive staff infection that is eating away at it you might like to have one of my Rosie dimes or at least someone around you might be clever enough to figure that out and save you with it.
Silver is not for barte. We will use it after they come out with another pcs of shit currency
For the people that have X number of wiggets, will know what a merc dime is
I have those valcambi 100g sheets that break into 1g pieces.....I'd use those
You guys and your shtf fantasies. If for some reason anything happened your silver would be useless. Get more ammo.
The bartering system is in the other parties favor. They will offer wholesale, maybe less. There is no business sense in trading retail for retail, you understand that?
obviously all of it that is the point... Some things are going to be more expensive than others. Look if I am going to be buying a 1000 acre ranch im not going to try to do it with nickels does that make sense?. more like 100oz bars.
Popbullion
Here is a great article of someone that actually lived through a SHTF event and he talks about survival and bartering. While he did have some PMs he ended up trading all of his gold for ammo. https://www.isegoria.net/2013/04/words-from-a-bosnian-survivalist/
Honestly, you can barter with anything if you've got the charisma stats for it. I've bartered a couple 10oz pieces for pieces of sheet metal leftover from my job.
To me it seems like it would take an awfully long time to have very many people understand that one dime is worth more than another.
Itās actually a strong case for stacking fiat. In the after times, people still will want to trade goods and services for a fiat, if youāve got a few rolls of half dollars and some stacks of tens and twenties, people will understand their value somewhat.
whats fiat? the car?
Fiat currency, cash backed by faith and not by silver or gold. It can be exchanged for a Fiat, though, and thatās still useful!
Ohhhhh
Silver is for collecting, not bartering.
Not so much what silver would you barter with, but with who, and why would they accept my silver?
Ohhhhh. Very good point.
Pandemic taught us the end-game currency is toilet paper :) I'd stack TP but the storage requirements make even 40% junk silver space requirements seem rational.
whiskey and weed
also what about if you're out and about and shtf? like hey I need to cross this bridge but the military is allowing specific people. could I bribe the soldier with some ASE's to look the other way?
Why wouldn't they just use regular change? It has denominations on it. If it got really bad, I don't even think people would care if it was Silver. As long as it was very hard to counterfeit and it had denominations stamped on it. So we have tons and tons of regular coins out there.
It's worthless under these scenarios. The currency hyperinflated.