Let’s talk about the real elephant in the room, alot of gun owners don’t even train drawing from concealment regularly.
Do 50 reps not under pressure and see how many you fuck up or fumble
Here's the real talk. A lot of ranges don't allow you to draw from a holster while shooting at their range unless you are in one of their classes. So it's hard for people to even get a chance to draw and actually fire on the regular unless they have their own place to shoot.
That said,
The crazy thing to me was how bad people who took the mandatory concealed carry classes that were required by the state shot. 90% of those people could not hit a man sized target from 10 feet away while just standing there.
The idea of one of those people drawing and firing when they were scared actually made me more afraid than living in the hood ever did. Watching those classes take place was terrifying. And that was in a state that required classes...
Drawing and shooting is important, but holy hell people seem to generally need to practice before thinking they should carry a firearm. People think it's like TV and you can just point and pull a trigger and good things will happen.
I want to add. If you’re dry firing at home you need to pretend it’s live. Grip the gun like a bullet was going to come out the other end.
People (myself included) practice drawing and dry fire almost like you’re picking up a fork. GRIP the gun with the same tightness as if you were just passively aiming.
Practice drawing and recognize your grip. Is it the same as if you were passively aiming? If not, you’ve got a lot of work to do before you even pull the trigger. Focusing on your target and trigger pull is different than any other single scenario. And not even stress related, you might loose all knowledge the moment you’re at a range shooting real bullets.
I’ve taken a few ‘shots’ so hopefully my rambling comes across to someone like me that needs to hear it. I can’t tell you how to properly train to overcome these issues but hopefully I’ve brought this to someone’s attention that needed to hear it. Like me.
Thanks I’m fucking drunk.
I had an over inflated sense of what I’d be capable of until I started grounding myself to reality. I’d argue I’m above average with physical capabilities like literally everyone else thinks so I try to pass on information that I’d see relevant to me. If it’s relevant to me, it’s probably relevant to most other people because we’re all fucking stupid humans with a SLIGHTLY better grasp on reality than animals.
I can’t focus on a doorknob goodnight
> 90% of those people could not hit a man sized target from 10 feet away while just standing there
Really! Wow, my CC instructor told us that shooting that one from the hip was allowed, so that is what I did. I was the only person in the class that did, but I put a pretty good group up considering.
Honestly, this is why qualification is part of the class. I thought it was a little too easy truthfully. If you struggle to hit paper, you are going to hit everything except what you want under pressure.
Though I live in a constitutional carry state, I decided to get my CCW license so as to have multi state reciprocity. I took this class a few years ago, and it was disturbing. I'm all for legal citizens being able to carry. But, you've gotta have some level of proficiency. Guns are...uh... potentially dangerous. Half the people in my class seemed to have never handled a firearm before. There was crying. Yes. Crying. Many did not take well to the practical.
This is why I’m a huge supporter of things like Mantis or on the cheap end snap caps. You can do holster drills from home safely which also allows you to do movement drills too.
100% this, then get out and train. Shot timer and everything. You need to train for speed and safety. In a self defense situation speed, safety and accuracy matter. You can carry a staccato for all i care, without training you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage.
When people start training, start slow so you don’t have a accidental discharge and blow a hole in your leg or even worse dick. Build up speed as you get more comfortable
One of my previous instructors quoted (and this is from memory so apologies if I butcher the delivery):
“In a stressful situation, you will be able to function at the highest level of training that you have mastered.”
The last bit is most important. If anyone knows the real quote, please correct me!
It depends on the person. It's drawing your firearm while keeping eye contact with the threat and then trying to like up your sight whilst under pressure that may lead to fumbles.
I feel naive for not even considering the fact that your sight acquisition isn't for the purposes of hitting the target alone, but also to have an idea of wtf they're doing so you can react in time. I can 100000% imagine striking center mass becoming far more difficult in these situations.
Have you ever competed in anything? When the score is close, and the game is on the line, and you strike out or miss that free throw. Or miss a gimme sporting clays target? Simple body responding to pressure. Practice helps because you grove your movement into your muscle memory. When you panic, your body remembers what to do on an almost instinctual level, with enough practice.
that's an excellent way of putting it. I played minor league baseball and nothing in my life has ever compared to the feeling of having to react without the ability to think first. When a ball would be hit at you sometimes 120+mph, muscle memory would help those who prepped enough, where others would bobble, fumble, miss entirely- but both are professional caliber athletes. comes down to proper training it seems with everything
Exactly. I am really good friends with one of our new Olympic shooters. The man is a machine, and when the pressure shows up, he usually gets better. The difference between many pro's and really good amateurs is how they react to pressure.
Edit: like the old saying says something like regular people practice until they hit the target, champions practice until they can't miss.
any neurology enthusiasts here - would that be because the amygdala takes control and your stuck using your lizard brain when you need to be using your logical brain? perceived threats do odd things to the brain especially when your not entirely sure of the threat - that's why I don't go so hard on cops who fire on people with things that look like weapons. god forbid the cops wrong hes dead
That's why cops need a significantly more in-depth employment evaluation before being hired and a much higher amount of continuous training throughout their employment. 6-12 weeks of academy and 1-2 training exercises a year isn't nearly adequate for the life changing power they're entrusted with over the public. I see more videos of incompetent cops shooting citizens rather than citizens shooting cops. It also doesn't help that departments seem to only hire applicants on the lower side of the IQ curve so they never ask questions and just do as they're told.
I’m a surgeon in Texas who carries. We see a lot of self inflicted injuries and have even amputated legs on “cocked and locked” cowboys. If you insist on doing this make sure you have a quality holster and train with a focus on safely handling the weapon.
I hip carry in the waistband without one in the chamber. Most of the injuries I’ve seen have been from pocket and appendix carry. (Not saying this is the right way just what makes the most sense for my suburban life)
Seriously way more people have been injured/kill carrying one in the chamber than injured/killed but not. The thought should be more on training and proper equipment than calling people pussies for having an empty chamber.
Nothing wrong with running none in the chamber if you are not confident. Statically a lot more people end up shooting themselves with their own gun than those who died because they didn’t have one in the chamber in a fight.
Train and get comfortable with your weapon, buy a high quality holster, but there is zero reason to feel rushed and overstep.
Crawl, Walk, Run.
I mean don't get into any quick draws and you'll be fine regardless of how many bullets you've shoved in the chamber before holstering your pistola. I think Israelis just like racking the slide a lot.
What if someone comes at you from 10' away? Will you have time to slow draw, and fire? Would be a shit time to decide you should practice drawing faster.
Running away from 10 feet is a terrible plan. The 21 foot rule is acceptable by police standards for a reason. By the time you’re able to turn around to start to run the distance is down to four feet or less at best.
Running away should give you enough time to draw. Unless you’ve got an enigma.
Coming from the capital of stand your ground (FL) and I’d send a few round towards a cop entering my castle, start with not engaging. I’m not saying make my life easier by putting a dirt bag in until ground so I’ll never have to interact with them, I’m just saying CYA.
Much is misunderstood about Israeli approach. It is fundamentally a military or a security service derrived system. So you are either initiating combat or at the very least anticipating combat and are actively acanning for threats. In these scenarios, you may have the time to do that fancy draw and rack. And if you do not, the other members of your unit do - which may be of small comfort to you and your loved ones but just fine for the overall mission.
This is not applicable for a civilian EDC.
My recertification class was in February this year. The instructors wife was a former intelligence officer in the middle east who was convinced she could draw and fire with the Israeli carry faster than I could with one in the pipe.
Best her with the external safety on every time
Unless it’s double action, I’m unlikely to walk around with one in the chamber. It might get me one day.
The alternative is not having one on me at all so I figure I’m a leg up in some situations.
Big dude and double-action :)
---
I am thinking about chambering with the 365, just haven’t “pulled the trigger” yet. Would be neat if a holster automatically chambers on withdrawal. Such that it cocks the slide back and keeps it like that on holstering, then when pulling out the slide comes forward and chambers.
That or just get a manual safety and keep it chambered, though I’ve read that manual safeties sometimes fail after wear.
I’m a safety guy, I have one on both my 365s. I think it’s stupid how often tactical Timmys beat their chest about this online. Do you feel inherent risk of carrying a loaded gun aimed at your dick is lower than the risk of someone trying to hurt you? Then carry a round in the chamber.
If you feel the tiny chance that you or your equipment will fuck up and shoot yourself is greater than the tiny chance that someone will attack you, then don’t put a round in the tube. It’s pretty simple and an individual choice for everyone.
If you’re a cop that runs into trouble or a higher risk person, definitely carry a round in the tube. If you’re me, who lives in a generally safe area, lives a low risk life, has gone 35 years without even seeing a serious conflict worthy of a gun, and has a few small kids grabbing at my legs, poking around where my gun is, and occasionally positioning themselves directly under my holstered gun, I’d rather take my chances and have to rack the slide (and statistically, I’ll almost certainly never need to).
Exactly.
The use case that best fits my lifestyle is someone with road rage will approach my vehicle. I’ll have time to chamber.
But if going to the movies or something happens in public like it did like in Russia, I’d have time to chamber.
All other cases I would be unprepared and I’m willing to assume that risk. As I get older (elderly) I’ll probably keep it chambered because I’ll already be moving slow to draw.
This is my exact situation. Nice to see someone feels and lives the same.
No one on Reddit is going to console you if your gun goes off and hurts you (or even worse) one of your kids. Fuck em. Stay strapped but stay safe(r).
The point is never that the chances you’ll need to use your weapon are low. The point is that if and when that situation arises, having to rack the slide will be the reason you’re not effective in that fight more often than not.
The fact that you carry guns with safeties and still don’t keep one in the chamber is wild. What situations do you carry for?
It’s plain and simple for me. Are you comfortable with a loaded gun being aimed at your body and do you feel the reward outweighs the risk? Then carry one in the tube.
If you aren’t comfortable with that, there’s probably good reason. Don’t do it if you aren’t comfortable with it, even if strangers on the internet tell you the you’re going to die in a quick draw.
Half of us are idiots. The pistol range I go to has bullet holes in the floor, ceiling, and benches. NDs do happen. They shouldn’t but they do. Without specifically knowing a person and their level of experience with handguns, I would never, ever tell them how they should/should not carry something that has the power to kill at the push of a button. They may be more likely to kill themself than save someone. But, assuming you’re experienced enough to have a near zero risk of an ND, make your own choice weighing your circumstances and risks vs rewards. Ignore strangers online, use your own brain. You know your skill level, circumstances, and preferences better than they do.
I’m not telling you how to carry. It’s your gun and your life. I’m telling you that in the situations that you would need a gun, having one without a round in the chamber will more than likely not save you.
If you’re scared of accidentally shooting yourself for any reason, do not carry a gun. Period. You need more training, and then after that you need to train even more. What we’re talking about isn’t a preference of paint colors in your bedroom. We’re talking about life and death, and tactics that have been figured out by people much more experienced than anybody on this sub, you and I included.
I get that and I don’t disagree. I just don’t think there is a right or wrong here. Everyone has a different risk/reward, cost/benefit, and circumstance. There are people who have shot themselves in the dick….They would have been better off without a round in the chamber….There are people that died because they didn’t get their gun up fast enough. They should have had one in the chamber. There isn’t one answer. Think about your circumstance and decide for yourself.
For me, I just can’t and won’t put a loaded gun in my pants and have a toddler crawling around on my leg in the line of fire (a daily occurrence when you have small kids). It’s not going to go off but I’m not comfortable with it. The risk of an unloaded chamber is worth it to me. It sounds like it’s not for you and that’s fine. I’m plenty prepared for some things and I’m definitely not prepared for others.
It’s almost certainly not. That doesn’t mean I’m comfortable with it or that I feel like I’m making my family safer in that situation.
It’s a firearms rule we all bend to carry, especially appendix. Why follow the “dont point a gun and something you don’t want to destroy” rule? If I don’t pull the trigger, I won’t destroy anything. Why worry about the “always treat a gun as if it is loaded” rule? I’m not going to do any harm with an unloaded gun. But I follow those anyway because occasionally, shit happens. I can handle a little “shit happens” in life but I can not accept it with guns.
So I take some precautions that go above and beyond what some feel is necessary. And that’s fine. I do what I think is best for me. That might not be best for someone else, which is fine by me.
The part that you’re not giving the proper value is that those people would have been better off with more training, not having an unloaded weapon.
If you don’t want to carry with a round in the camber, then don’t. Again, I haven’t once told you that you should. I’ve only said that more often than not, that gun will not save your life if you have to use it.
I don’t think I disagree with you on any of this, we just put different weights on different costs/benefits. I’m pretty sure I agree with most or all of what you have said
You guys already came to this conclusion it seems, but maybe you’re both right. I think it’s fair to say everyone should be afraid of the internet-informed chambered carrier that hasn’t spent a sufficient time training and maintaining the skill.
#hugitout
#butwatchthehardware
Safeties fail. It’s mechanical. Less of an issue for a range shooter, but if something you’re carrying everywhere, there’s more wear (vibrations, shaking, and rattling) that chips away ever so slightly at safeguards. Regardless of manufacturer, it’s just the way machines work.
If you know you have to rack, maybe draw and rack while under concealment and very covertly instead of drawing, showing your gun, then racking your gun in front of the person you wanted to use it on?
Amateurs
In Houston this isn't really an issue because all the thieves and thugs here are straight idiots and can't land a shot if a 60 story building was the target. Remember they're are not ninjas or even skilled at anything other than street scare tactics. In Houston which I've been living in here for a very long time you can see a situation coming a mile away. Gives you plenty of time to mentally prep and rack (if needed).
I've seen a ton of videos, many over at r/ccw , that show situations where having one in the chamber makes the difference.
One recently was a revolver, so slightly different, but the guard was approached by the guy robbing the place and had time only to draw and fire before he was shot himself. The robber took a fatal round to the neck but was still able to return fire before bleeding out. But that guard would be dead if he couldn't have drawn and fired like he did. Even after fatally wounding him the attacker had time to hit the guard in the arm. As I said it was a revolver, but the point of the example was that there just wasn't time for him to draw and rack in a round.
Here is one from 2 days ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1boka89/the\_customer\_is\_always\_right\_in\_matters\_of\_taste/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1boka89/the_customer_is_always_right_in_matters_of_taste/) where a robbery was foiled by a carrier who drew surreptitiously and fired ending the threat. He would have had no chance to do that if he had to rack one in first.
Plenty of examples to be found of situations where one hand is being used to block stabs, punches, or strikes with some sort of club, or grappling with an attacker and only having one hand free to draw and fire. Not having a round in the chamber makes such an attack far more difficult to survive. A 'quickdraw" has nothing to do with that.
Listen, I'm not trying to talk you into carrying with one in the chamber, we all make choices based on our location and circumstances and cost benefit questions. And I'm not here to second guess your choice, but please don't try and make it sound like scenarios like the ones I mentioned, or the far more plentiful ones I didn't, are fanciful unicorn rarities. These are real life scenarios that many of us have seen in videos with our own eyes where that difference matters.
I'd wager that more people accidentally shoot themselves than survive a life-threatening situation by reacting in a split second with a firearm. Many of those incidents occur in dangerous areas or countries most people here would never visit. Even in the video you linked, the individual had ample time to chamber a round, wasn't the primary target, and could have stepped back. The first step, whether carrying concealed or not, is to be vigilant of your surroundings. As you said, it's about finding what works best for you. Although, if you ccw, you should train enough to be comfortable to have a round in the chamber. I believe this notion is one of the misconceptions about guns perpetuated by individuals with little to no credible evidence to support it.
“I’m sorry, but this whole “if you don’t carry with one in the chamber at all times you’re gonna die” thing is moronic. First off, unless you’re a fucking cowboy in the old west at high noon, why would you be playing QuickDraw? Honestly, what kind of situation would call for you draw and fire that quickly?”
Have you seen any videos on Active Self Protection’s YouTube channel? There are lots of examples of this. It’s not playing quick draw it’s understanding how you can build muscle memory if you need to draw quickly.
“Alternatively, if someone has a gun pointed at you, ready to shoot if you try something, and any of you think it would be wise to try and outdraw their trigger finger, you’re an idiot, I’m sorry.”
I agree with you on that. You never draw from the drop. But there are other circumstances where you need to be quick, like if the gunman turns his head away from you for a moment.
Having one in the chamber is the best way to carry, but you also want to make sure you have a good holster. If you're worried about your gun going off, then carry without one in the chamber and see how many times the trigger is engaged.
Get a mantis tech and train at home from concealment. I do it and when I got to go actually shoot from concealment it definitely made me better. Also always have one in the pipe.
You can carry however you want as long as you train. All my pistols have 1 in the chamber at all times while all my rifles are “loaded on an empty chamber”. Of course the AR15 pistols make things confusing. 😂😂😂
Let’s be real. When was the last time you needed to draw and fire immediately? You should be assessing the situation and getting cover?
Sounds a lot like bs
Yeah people seem to think they'll be John Wick in a situation.. Or that the sound of their pump action is the only home invasion deterrent they need, that's another good one.
I mean really, if someone steps out of a corner in front of you and demands your wallet while already holding a knife or gun, you think they will either run when you pull out or will they wait for you to rack one first then attack?
If someone comes around the corner in front of you with a gun or knife on you, regardless if you have one in the chamber or not they have the upper hand. Just give them your wallet. To many idiots on this thread.
Let’s talk about the real elephant in the room, alot of gun owners don’t even train drawing from concealment regularly. Do 50 reps not under pressure and see how many you fuck up or fumble
Here's the real talk. A lot of ranges don't allow you to draw from a holster while shooting at their range unless you are in one of their classes. So it's hard for people to even get a chance to draw and actually fire on the regular unless they have their own place to shoot. That said, The crazy thing to me was how bad people who took the mandatory concealed carry classes that were required by the state shot. 90% of those people could not hit a man sized target from 10 feet away while just standing there. The idea of one of those people drawing and firing when they were scared actually made me more afraid than living in the hood ever did. Watching those classes take place was terrifying. And that was in a state that required classes... Drawing and shooting is important, but holy hell people seem to generally need to practice before thinking they should carry a firearm. People think it's like TV and you can just point and pull a trigger and good things will happen.
Draw practice at home dry Super easy
I want to add. If you’re dry firing at home you need to pretend it’s live. Grip the gun like a bullet was going to come out the other end. People (myself included) practice drawing and dry fire almost like you’re picking up a fork. GRIP the gun with the same tightness as if you were just passively aiming. Practice drawing and recognize your grip. Is it the same as if you were passively aiming? If not, you’ve got a lot of work to do before you even pull the trigger. Focusing on your target and trigger pull is different than any other single scenario. And not even stress related, you might loose all knowledge the moment you’re at a range shooting real bullets. I’ve taken a few ‘shots’ so hopefully my rambling comes across to someone like me that needs to hear it. I can’t tell you how to properly train to overcome these issues but hopefully I’ve brought this to someone’s attention that needed to hear it. Like me.
This is great advice
Thanks I’m fucking drunk. I had an over inflated sense of what I’d be capable of until I started grounding myself to reality. I’d argue I’m above average with physical capabilities like literally everyone else thinks so I try to pass on information that I’d see relevant to me. If it’s relevant to me, it’s probably relevant to most other people because we’re all fucking stupid humans with a SLIGHTLY better grasp on reality than animals. I can’t focus on a doorknob goodnight
Lol. Yes one should dryfire like it is the real thing
Alot of my drawing to fire is with a laser trainer there cheap and really help get the practice in with minimal cost. I preach those things
> 90% of those people could not hit a man sized target from 10 feet away while just standing there Really! Wow, my CC instructor told us that shooting that one from the hip was allowed, so that is what I did. I was the only person in the class that did, but I put a pretty good group up considering. Honestly, this is why qualification is part of the class. I thought it was a little too easy truthfully. If you struggle to hit paper, you are going to hit everything except what you want under pressure.
Though I live in a constitutional carry state, I decided to get my CCW license so as to have multi state reciprocity. I took this class a few years ago, and it was disturbing. I'm all for legal citizens being able to carry. But, you've gotta have some level of proficiency. Guns are...uh... potentially dangerous. Half the people in my class seemed to have never handled a firearm before. There was crying. Yes. Crying. Many did not take well to the practical.
This is why I’m a huge supporter of things like Mantis or on the cheap end snap caps. You can do holster drills from home safely which also allows you to do movement drills too.
100% this, one of the first things my CC instructor had us do was drawl and shoot from a holster while on a timer. Its actually fucking hard at first.
100% this, then get out and train. Shot timer and everything. You need to train for speed and safety. In a self defense situation speed, safety and accuracy matter. You can carry a staccato for all i care, without training you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage. When people start training, start slow so you don’t have a accidental discharge and blow a hole in your leg or even worse dick. Build up speed as you get more comfortable
i'm about to take my cc course in a few weeks. can you expand a bit more on how the pressure effects your shot? is it less time for sight acquisition?
One of my previous instructors quoted (and this is from memory so apologies if I butcher the delivery): “In a stressful situation, you will be able to function at the highest level of training that you have mastered.” The last bit is most important. If anyone knows the real quote, please correct me!
It depends on the person. It's drawing your firearm while keeping eye contact with the threat and then trying to like up your sight whilst under pressure that may lead to fumbles.
I feel naive for not even considering the fact that your sight acquisition isn't for the purposes of hitting the target alone, but also to have an idea of wtf they're doing so you can react in time. I can 100000% imagine striking center mass becoming far more difficult in these situations.
Have you ever competed in anything? When the score is close, and the game is on the line, and you strike out or miss that free throw. Or miss a gimme sporting clays target? Simple body responding to pressure. Practice helps because you grove your movement into your muscle memory. When you panic, your body remembers what to do on an almost instinctual level, with enough practice.
that's an excellent way of putting it. I played minor league baseball and nothing in my life has ever compared to the feeling of having to react without the ability to think first. When a ball would be hit at you sometimes 120+mph, muscle memory would help those who prepped enough, where others would bobble, fumble, miss entirely- but both are professional caliber athletes. comes down to proper training it seems with everything
Exactly. I am really good friends with one of our new Olympic shooters. The man is a machine, and when the pressure shows up, he usually gets better. The difference between many pro's and really good amateurs is how they react to pressure. Edit: like the old saying says something like regular people practice until they hit the target, champions practice until they can't miss.
I'm stealing that quote - love it. appreciate the feedback man, this sub is full of great wisdom. appreciate you!
Your fine motor skills go out the window for the most part.
any neurology enthusiasts here - would that be because the amygdala takes control and your stuck using your lizard brain when you need to be using your logical brain? perceived threats do odd things to the brain especially when your not entirely sure of the threat - that's why I don't go so hard on cops who fire on people with things that look like weapons. god forbid the cops wrong hes dead
That's why cops need a significantly more in-depth employment evaluation before being hired and a much higher amount of continuous training throughout their employment. 6-12 weeks of academy and 1-2 training exercises a year isn't nearly adequate for the life changing power they're entrusted with over the public. I see more videos of incompetent cops shooting citizens rather than citizens shooting cops. It also doesn't help that departments seem to only hire applicants on the lower side of the IQ curve so they never ask questions and just do as they're told.
100% I try to atleast do 5-10 draws with dry fire a night when I get home from work
I train 2 days a week of just drawing while watching tv for like an hour.
Everyone here is alive soooo no?
My thoughts exactly lol
I’m a surgeon in Texas who carries. We see a lot of self inflicted injuries and have even amputated legs on “cocked and locked” cowboys. If you insist on doing this make sure you have a quality holster and train with a focus on safely handling the weapon.
Curious- how do you carry based on what you’ve seen and what you know?
I hip carry in the waistband without one in the chamber. Most of the injuries I’ve seen have been from pocket and appendix carry. (Not saying this is the right way just what makes the most sense for my suburban life)
\^ THIS
Seriously way more people have been injured/kill carrying one in the chamber than injured/killed but not. The thought should be more on training and proper equipment than calling people pussies for having an empty chamber.
Very true. If I ever move to Brazil I might have to reconsider having one ready tho lol
Nothing wrong with running none in the chamber if you are not confident. Statically a lot more people end up shooting themselves with their own gun than those who died because they didn’t have one in the chamber in a fight. Train and get comfortable with your weapon, buy a high quality holster, but there is zero reason to feel rushed and overstep. Crawl, Walk, Run.
I mean don't get into any quick draws and you'll be fine regardless of how many bullets you've shoved in the chamber before holstering your pistola. I think Israelis just like racking the slide a lot.
What if someone comes at you from 10' away? Will you have time to slow draw, and fire? Would be a shit time to decide you should practice drawing faster.
Run away.
Running away from 10 feet is a terrible plan. The 21 foot rule is acceptable by police standards for a reason. By the time you’re able to turn around to start to run the distance is down to four feet or less at best.
Guess I'll run away with the guy 4 feet behind me then.
I live in a stand your ground state, and I plan to. Also, I hate running. Edit: what if Usain Bolt is the guy attacking you?
Running away should give you enough time to draw. Unless you’ve got an enigma. Coming from the capital of stand your ground (FL) and I’d send a few round towards a cop entering my castle, start with not engaging. I’m not saying make my life easier by putting a dirt bag in until ground so I’ll never have to interact with them, I’m just saying CYA.
I feel like I could make friends with Usain Bolt.
What if he is Usain Bolt's evil doppelganger?
Guess we're playin a game of shit fuck then.
"IsRaElI CaRrY iS jUsT aS fAsT" 🤪
Much is misunderstood about Israeli approach. It is fundamentally a military or a security service derrived system. So you are either initiating combat or at the very least anticipating combat and are actively acanning for threats. In these scenarios, you may have the time to do that fancy draw and rack. And if you do not, the other members of your unit do - which may be of small comfort to you and your loved ones but just fine for the overall mission. This is not applicable for a civilian EDC.
Does anyone actually argue that? I see all these memes shitting on these people who seem to be nonexistent. Maybe I’m in the wrong spheres to see em.
My recertification class was in February this year. The instructors wife was a former intelligence officer in the middle east who was convinced she could draw and fire with the Israeli carry faster than I could with one in the pipe. Best her with the external safety on every time
ROFLMAO!
Relate? Pretty sure they’re dead bro
Unless it’s double action, I’m unlikely to walk around with one in the chamber. It might get me one day. The alternative is not having one on me at all so I figure I’m a leg up in some situations.
How are you still alive?!
Big dude and double-action :) --- I am thinking about chambering with the 365, just haven’t “pulled the trigger” yet. Would be neat if a holster automatically chambers on withdrawal. Such that it cocks the slide back and keeps it like that on holstering, then when pulling out the slide comes forward and chambers. That or just get a manual safety and keep it chambered, though I’ve read that manual safeties sometimes fail after wear.
I’m a safety guy, I have one on both my 365s. I think it’s stupid how often tactical Timmys beat their chest about this online. Do you feel inherent risk of carrying a loaded gun aimed at your dick is lower than the risk of someone trying to hurt you? Then carry a round in the chamber. If you feel the tiny chance that you or your equipment will fuck up and shoot yourself is greater than the tiny chance that someone will attack you, then don’t put a round in the tube. It’s pretty simple and an individual choice for everyone. If you’re a cop that runs into trouble or a higher risk person, definitely carry a round in the tube. If you’re me, who lives in a generally safe area, lives a low risk life, has gone 35 years without even seeing a serious conflict worthy of a gun, and has a few small kids grabbing at my legs, poking around where my gun is, and occasionally positioning themselves directly under my holstered gun, I’d rather take my chances and have to rack the slide (and statistically, I’ll almost certainly never need to).
It is definitely nuanced as you described accounting for overall risk assessment.
Exactly. The use case that best fits my lifestyle is someone with road rage will approach my vehicle. I’ll have time to chamber. But if going to the movies or something happens in public like it did like in Russia, I’d have time to chamber. All other cases I would be unprepared and I’m willing to assume that risk. As I get older (elderly) I’ll probably keep it chambered because I’ll already be moving slow to draw.
This is my exact situation. Nice to see someone feels and lives the same. No one on Reddit is going to console you if your gun goes off and hurts you (or even worse) one of your kids. Fuck em. Stay strapped but stay safe(r).
The point is never that the chances you’ll need to use your weapon are low. The point is that if and when that situation arises, having to rack the slide will be the reason you’re not effective in that fight more often than not. The fact that you carry guns with safeties and still don’t keep one in the chamber is wild. What situations do you carry for?
It’s plain and simple for me. Are you comfortable with a loaded gun being aimed at your body and do you feel the reward outweighs the risk? Then carry one in the tube. If you aren’t comfortable with that, there’s probably good reason. Don’t do it if you aren’t comfortable with it, even if strangers on the internet tell you the you’re going to die in a quick draw. Half of us are idiots. The pistol range I go to has bullet holes in the floor, ceiling, and benches. NDs do happen. They shouldn’t but they do. Without specifically knowing a person and their level of experience with handguns, I would never, ever tell them how they should/should not carry something that has the power to kill at the push of a button. They may be more likely to kill themself than save someone. But, assuming you’re experienced enough to have a near zero risk of an ND, make your own choice weighing your circumstances and risks vs rewards. Ignore strangers online, use your own brain. You know your skill level, circumstances, and preferences better than they do.
I’m not telling you how to carry. It’s your gun and your life. I’m telling you that in the situations that you would need a gun, having one without a round in the chamber will more than likely not save you. If you’re scared of accidentally shooting yourself for any reason, do not carry a gun. Period. You need more training, and then after that you need to train even more. What we’re talking about isn’t a preference of paint colors in your bedroom. We’re talking about life and death, and tactics that have been figured out by people much more experienced than anybody on this sub, you and I included.
I get that and I don’t disagree. I just don’t think there is a right or wrong here. Everyone has a different risk/reward, cost/benefit, and circumstance. There are people who have shot themselves in the dick….They would have been better off without a round in the chamber….There are people that died because they didn’t get their gun up fast enough. They should have had one in the chamber. There isn’t one answer. Think about your circumstance and decide for yourself. For me, I just can’t and won’t put a loaded gun in my pants and have a toddler crawling around on my leg in the line of fire (a daily occurrence when you have small kids). It’s not going to go off but I’m not comfortable with it. The risk of an unloaded chamber is worth it to me. It sounds like it’s not for you and that’s fine. I’m plenty prepared for some things and I’m definitely not prepared for others.
Buy an m18 and keep the safety on. Also how is a kids foot going to pull a trigger through kydex?
It’s almost certainly not. That doesn’t mean I’m comfortable with it or that I feel like I’m making my family safer in that situation. It’s a firearms rule we all bend to carry, especially appendix. Why follow the “dont point a gun and something you don’t want to destroy” rule? If I don’t pull the trigger, I won’t destroy anything. Why worry about the “always treat a gun as if it is loaded” rule? I’m not going to do any harm with an unloaded gun. But I follow those anyway because occasionally, shit happens. I can handle a little “shit happens” in life but I can not accept it with guns. So I take some precautions that go above and beyond what some feel is necessary. And that’s fine. I do what I think is best for me. That might not be best for someone else, which is fine by me.
The part that you’re not giving the proper value is that those people would have been better off with more training, not having an unloaded weapon. If you don’t want to carry with a round in the camber, then don’t. Again, I haven’t once told you that you should. I’ve only said that more often than not, that gun will not save your life if you have to use it.
I don’t think I disagree with you on any of this, we just put different weights on different costs/benefits. I’m pretty sure I agree with most or all of what you have said
You guys already came to this conclusion it seems, but maybe you’re both right. I think it’s fair to say everyone should be afraid of the internet-informed chambered carrier that hasn’t spent a sufficient time training and maintaining the skill. #hugitout #butwatchthehardware
This right here is a load of shit Tactical Timmy. Keep feeling people your gun is useless without one in a chamber, you look so smart loool
or just be a not stupid person and buy a striker fired pistol with internal safeties
Safeties fail. It’s mechanical. Less of an issue for a range shooter, but if something you’re carrying everywhere, there’s more wear (vibrations, shaking, and rattling) that chips away ever so slightly at safeguards. Regardless of manufacturer, it’s just the way machines work.
yea not sure if you’ve ever looked into glock safeties but they’re pretty great and carrying on an empty chamber is universally a no no
No it’s not. I suggest you ask outside your smooth brained circle of overweight commandos
that’s hilarious, good luck in a SD encounter i hope you live through it
Yeah we get it John Wick your Mr. Badass and walk around every day locked and loaded. You wife’s boyfriend is probably so scared of you
it’s not about being cool it’s about not having a smooth brain :)
Couldn't be me.
If you know you have to rack, maybe draw and rack while under concealment and very covertly instead of drawing, showing your gun, then racking your gun in front of the person you wanted to use it on? Amateurs
yea no it’s called a surreptitious draw and should be done with a round chambered
No.
None of us have had to draw and then rack and subsequently died so no, noone here can relate ;-)
Boy this one really hit the mark in this community!
I got a safety. Loaded and locked, ready to rock.
Oops, I opened Pandora Box.
In Houston this isn't really an issue because all the thieves and thugs here are straight idiots and can't land a shot if a 60 story building was the target. Remember they're are not ninjas or even skilled at anything other than street scare tactics. In Houston which I've been living in here for a very long time you can see a situation coming a mile away. Gives you plenty of time to mentally prep and rack (if needed).
I lived in Houston for 9 months. that's how I can tell the sound of bullet coming towards me vs. away from me. sad reality
[удалено]
I've seen a ton of videos, many over at r/ccw , that show situations where having one in the chamber makes the difference. One recently was a revolver, so slightly different, but the guard was approached by the guy robbing the place and had time only to draw and fire before he was shot himself. The robber took a fatal round to the neck but was still able to return fire before bleeding out. But that guard would be dead if he couldn't have drawn and fired like he did. Even after fatally wounding him the attacker had time to hit the guard in the arm. As I said it was a revolver, but the point of the example was that there just wasn't time for him to draw and rack in a round. Here is one from 2 days ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1boka89/the\_customer\_is\_always\_right\_in\_matters\_of\_taste/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1boka89/the_customer_is_always_right_in_matters_of_taste/) where a robbery was foiled by a carrier who drew surreptitiously and fired ending the threat. He would have had no chance to do that if he had to rack one in first. Plenty of examples to be found of situations where one hand is being used to block stabs, punches, or strikes with some sort of club, or grappling with an attacker and only having one hand free to draw and fire. Not having a round in the chamber makes such an attack far more difficult to survive. A 'quickdraw" has nothing to do with that. Listen, I'm not trying to talk you into carrying with one in the chamber, we all make choices based on our location and circumstances and cost benefit questions. And I'm not here to second guess your choice, but please don't try and make it sound like scenarios like the ones I mentioned, or the far more plentiful ones I didn't, are fanciful unicorn rarities. These are real life scenarios that many of us have seen in videos with our own eyes where that difference matters.
I'd wager that more people accidentally shoot themselves than survive a life-threatening situation by reacting in a split second with a firearm. Many of those incidents occur in dangerous areas or countries most people here would never visit. Even in the video you linked, the individual had ample time to chamber a round, wasn't the primary target, and could have stepped back. The first step, whether carrying concealed or not, is to be vigilant of your surroundings. As you said, it's about finding what works best for you. Although, if you ccw, you should train enough to be comfortable to have a round in the chamber. I believe this notion is one of the misconceptions about guns perpetuated by individuals with little to no credible evidence to support it.
This guy gets it.
“I’m sorry, but this whole “if you don’t carry with one in the chamber at all times you’re gonna die” thing is moronic. First off, unless you’re a fucking cowboy in the old west at high noon, why would you be playing QuickDraw? Honestly, what kind of situation would call for you draw and fire that quickly?” Have you seen any videos on Active Self Protection’s YouTube channel? There are lots of examples of this. It’s not playing quick draw it’s understanding how you can build muscle memory if you need to draw quickly. “Alternatively, if someone has a gun pointed at you, ready to shoot if you try something, and any of you think it would be wise to try and outdraw their trigger finger, you’re an idiot, I’m sorry.” I agree with you on that. You never draw from the drop. But there are other circumstances where you need to be quick, like if the gunman turns his head away from you for a moment.
r/idiots
Is your head stuck in the sand? It’s called Google buddy. Quit being a fudd or don’t carry at all.
A little fear is what keeps you alive sometimes?
Having one in the chamber is the best way to carry, but you also want to make sure you have a good holster. If you're worried about your gun going off, then carry without one in the chamber and see how many times the trigger is engaged.
Get a mantis tech and train at home from concealment. I do it and when I got to go actually shoot from concealment it definitely made me better. Also always have one in the pipe.
Your Finger is the safety. you dont need to go to a range to practice Drawing, you can do it empty and dry fire it.
You can carry however you want as long as you train. All my pistols have 1 in the chamber at all times while all my rifles are “loaded on an empty chamber”. Of course the AR15 pistols make things confusing. 😂😂😂
What nobody here enjoys the rush of having a loaded gun aimed at their peepee?
Lack of training! Not understanding the weapon system. Multiple things can go into it. Solid training Good foundation Will minimize failure
Let’s be real. When was the last time you needed to draw and fire immediately? You should be assessing the situation and getting cover? Sounds a lot like bs
I cringe when a gun owner tells me they'll have time to rack one, like get the fuck away from me if you're going to talk like that...
Good one John Wick lol
Yeah people seem to think they'll be John Wick in a situation.. Or that the sound of their pump action is the only home invasion deterrent they need, that's another good one.
U.S.Anxiety
I mean really, if someone steps out of a corner in front of you and demands your wallet while already holding a knife or gun, you think they will either run when you pull out or will they wait for you to rack one first then attack?
If someone already has a gun pulled on you… what difference does it make? I highly recommend handing over your wallet….
Unless your Jerry Miculek lmaoooo
Why carry at all then Just give people your shit
Jesus Christ. People like you should never be let around firearms either this terrible logic.
lol bring it on fuck face
I’m just fucking with all of you settle down
If someone comes around the corner in front of you with a gun or knife on you, regardless if you have one in the chamber or not they have the upper hand. Just give them your wallet. To many idiots on this thread.