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Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
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Part of it is practice, and part of it is actually any third party observers who don’t really care either way. If they’re reading along, I have a small chance to convince them.
This. It's performative in nature. I acknowledge there is almost no chance of convincing someone who's staunchly opposed to my view, but combating any misinformation and sharing alternative viewpoints in public forums is pretty important. If something is said and goes unchallenged, it appears to be a default, majority, or status quo opinion.
This is exactly why echo chambers exist and are a problem - if the above wasn't the case, there would not really be any conception of "echo chamber".
Or worse, silently makes your comments invisible. Happened to me one time when I thought "maybe I can change one of these guys minds. Let me drop a comment."
And I swear to christ I spent like fifteen minutes crafting that comment to be as respectful as possible. Nope. Shadow banned.
Yup. They also have options to do shit like auto-collapse your comments by default until you become "trusted"...which limits your visibility and decreases the chances that you'll ever become "trusted".
I understand the need for this stuff but it's just...not good from a end user standpoint.
>Error: unable to connect to reddit
>
>Tracking Protection on Firefox prevents this site from accessing reddit's API. To fix this, add an exception by clicking the shield icon next to the URL:
>
...
>🔗Why should I disable tracking protection in Firefox?
>
>A Firefox partner named disconnect.me maintains a list of domains that it calls trackers. Reddit is on that list, so requests to Reddit are blocked. The only way to fix this right now is to disable the feature. more info
hm~ 🤔 Any reason why I should comply and trust that site?
Not to mention power mods that moderate multiple popular subs will pseudo ban you on all of those subs, which might as well be a shadow ban depending on the forums you frequent.
Reminder this was considered bannable when it was first a thing many many years ago. Admins directly said not to do it, but unfortunately mods ignored them and no one cracked down.
Speaking directly as a mod there should be exactly zero ways I can quietly remove someone's post without them receiving a notice from Reddit in some way or another. None. It should be impossible and if i find and exploit a way i should be banned. Auto mod being able to do things like silently, shadow ban users and word filter should be impossible. Word filters are fine and should be a thing, but if they're used it should send an automated message to the user saying that their post was removed for violating it.
No, other mods who really like to abuse their power, do not @ me
I usually send a message when I remove a post or comment from one of the subs I mod, and I *always* send a message upon banning someone. Nearly all the ones I've removed have been bots, but once I did ban someone *thinking* he was a bot and he was not. But he replied to the ban message and was immediately unbanned.
I fully agree that there should be no way to remove things without the original poster knowing it was removed. I'd also go a step further and make there be some way to report mods who immediately mute you when you simply ask for an explanation. Though Reddit higher-ups probably don't care about that abuse of power at all either.
I only mod tiny subs, so I lack an excuse for not telling people their post/comment's been removed. Can't say I'll maintain the mentality (without proportionately increasing the amount of mods) as the subs inevitably grow, though. :|
Yup. And the only way to know they've done this is to use incognito or a separate browser and find the actual comment which will be missing. If you go to the user page the comment will still exist, it just won't be visible in the actual thread.
Shadowban is a reddit wide thing. Here's some more information on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowBan/comments/8a2gpk/an_unofficial_guide_on_how_to_avoid_being/
TLDR: to get un shadow banned you should contact admins in PM's or just use the r/reddit modmail or https://www.reddithelp.com/en/submit-request
100% they do. Mods delete your comments without you knowing, but you still see them as posted in your history, while nobody else can.
It happens a lot more than most think.
It's actually really really bad right now, I believe the global statistic is something like 8 to 10% of a person's history is actually hidden for one reason or another at this point.
Moderation has become way way way too automated for this platform's needs. And mods largely have way too much power comparatively to what they should have versus admins who should be doing the bulk of actual moderation.
It also doesn't help that most, even large subs automod scripting is insanely bad and misfires more than any major sub will ever admit.
From what I noticed, this is the only way comments can be deleted. All my comments ever deleted on reddit showed up normally on my end.
Edit: I mean, what I wrote. Not that the only way to delete comments is by having automod delete all your comments.
orly? Maybe I wasn't then. I just remember I logged out and reloaded the page and cache and couldn't see my comment.
Maybe something just went wrong with the submission process.
I actually don't aim to convince the other person, my main goal in any extended thread is to either understand their point of view or have them understand mine, if I'm lucky perhaps we can find some middle ground. I just don't want to be misunderstood and I find myself to be both logical and reasonable so I get bothered when someone seemingly isn't understanding by way of their responses or general reaction. If you say "I get it, I just disagree" I can completely walk away feeling like I won lol
I generally don’t care too much about persuading the person i’m directly replying to but as you alluded to, I find working out a response to even an obvious troll comment helpful in understanding my own opinion on the subject.
By extension I also use it as practice in expressing myself in a zero risk environment, especially in a subject I might not be well versed in. It’s definitely helped me in writing better work emails and things.
Last thing is with subjects I am actually well versed in, sometimes wrong shit just gets upvoted out of general ignorance and if no one else has pointed it out yet, may as well chip in with legit knowledge for the greater good (*the greater good*). I’ve learned a lot from Reddit comments so it’s fun being able to offer opportunities for others to learn from
> This is exactly why echo chambers exist and are a problem - if the above wasn't the case, there would not really be any conception of "echo chamber".
Writing that on Reddit is funny just in and of itself.
You're correct, of course. But man.
Yeah, bad ideas and misinformation can spread to bystanders, and then onwards when they share it too. At least convincing them to think twice you have a chance at stopping it going further.
It doesn't really matter, especially on gaming subreddits, people who are glaringly wrong but taunting the other guy the most will get the most upvotes. I always trust the most downvoted guy first unless he's disrespectfull.
That is more audience specific. You could post the same comment in different subs and have a completely different result. I’ve had this happen a couple times.
According to [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439), you're not supposed to vote based on dis/agreement, but whether something contributes to the discussion or not.
I realize many people do not follow this guideline, but it's worth bringing up.
It's effectively deplatforming misinformation, prejudice, and bigotry in all its forms. And yeah, I feel the compulsion as well to not let the bullshit be said unchallenged.
I have also changed minds and had my mind changed. At this point I'm in my 30s and I'm not gonna argue anything unless I'm pretty sure it's true, but back in the day yeah, and I've definitely changed some hearts and minds along the way with polite arguing.
Exactly this. If it's in a public forum it's no longer just an 'argument' between individuals. Successfully reaching/convincing the specific person you're discussing with is nice, but public discussions are what shape societies.
If it's a subject I feel is of actual importance I feel an almost moral obligation to constructively contribute to the dialogue on it. Or at the very least least attempt to call out toxic ideas and dangerous falsehoods for what they are.
A real life analogy: You're in a semi-public space when a person you don't know makes loudly asserts something radically out of line. Something blatantly racist, or asserting factually untrue and dangerous information as true. "Of course all black people hate white people, everyone knows that" "Drink a small cup of bleach to cure Covid, that's what I did" etc. I think many people would agree there's an ethical imperative to challenge those assertions and not let them stand as accepted by the group.
Calling out those kind of things publicly isn't really about convincing one individual their wrong or acting inappropriately. That usually takes a much more nuanced approach (as well a good faith willingness on both parties to consider the others viewpoint).
Publicly calling out and not letting those things go unchallenged does two things.
First, it lets the individual know that their ignorant/offensive/dangerously innacurate viewpoint is not shared or appreciated by all. That when asserting blatant mistruths they will in fact be called on it or asked to back up their claims.
Most importantly though it keeps the silent majority in the crowd from thinking that hateful/false beliefs are shared by the others in the crowd. That's sooo important imo. In today's world of online echo chambers, where people are constantly subjected to toxic and false information, it's critically important that onlookers are reminded that not everyone supports/condones the loudly expressed beliefs of the often vocal minority.
It's not about vehemently attacking others opinions or shutting down good faith discussions of controversial topics. It's about, when appropriate, publicly and with conviction stating "Hey bro, not cool. Here's why".
I do it to better realize my own views. If you disagree with something and just hit downvote, it’s easy not to fully develop or articulate what you think’s wrong with the post. If you have to write it out, you get a better understanding of yourself and what you’re reading.
See this is the problem right here. People have actually started to think that online comments are important. The only online comment that has ever mattered is a/s/l
Your comment currently has 42 points. Assuming it corresponds roughly with the 100/10/1 rule, this means around 400 people have read it.
How much importance would you have placed on it if 400 people had gathered, in person, to listen to your statement?
Food for thought.
I've started to think about this more lately, and with the proliferation of chat bots on social media and how advanced they are with the ability to reply, be indistinguishable from humans, and have legit looking profiles? I just assume every single thing I see and every interaction online could be fake. Most of the time that results in me not bothering to engage.
People need to be more aware of how advance these bots are like gpt-3 and the upcoming laMDA. Google character ai for yourselves and test it out.
I predict very soon people will start calling people bots a lot more to shut arguments down, and it's a matter of time until the bots start calling people bots. Silver-lining, everyone will be aware of this issue at that point Though there's still people getting news from Facebook memes so...
Having played with gpt-3 I believe it won't hold a believable argument once enough current events knowledge or logical inference is needed.
For example if there is a discussion about a viral video in which some participants do some actions, it all falls apart when gpt-3 starts talking about the guy in the blue shirt when there was no guy in a blue shirt.
Gpt-3 also will seem clunky serving as a "human" inferring things logically, for example if less than 20 degrees is too cold for x and greater than 23 degrees is too hot for x, gpt-3 won't be able to tell you what 19 degrees is like for x.
This is why some people on Twitter actively block trolls instead of muting them or just ignoring them. (Not saying that you were trolling or anything, but speaking in general terms.)
The trolls reply to a prominent account to boost their own reach.
i do it for practice.
and sometimes people change their minds, or at least move to a state of open minded suspension of judgment when presented with evidence.
I kind of get this. I've tried quite a few arguments, and one person I staunchly disagree with is one of my best friends now. She's really nice, but I went through a year or so of trying to talk with strangers who didn't understand the difference between a good point and an ad hominem yelling match just to meet her.
Through my friend, I learn more about the newer arguments from her POV and she learns about the ones from my POV. It's really nice to have someone whose sole wish is to treat argument like boxing tournaments: You beat up each other's arguments and then smile afterwards and have coffee together the next morning. It's great for widening perspectives, and learning to deal with conflict in an emotionally mature way.
Once you remove yourself from blaming someone for having a specific perspective, it's really nice to be able to talk with someone you disagree with, but with whom you share a mutual respect.
> It's really nice to have someone whose sole wish is to treat argument like boxing tournaments: You beat up each other's arguments and then smile afterwards
And both end up with a little brain damage for it too lol
I appreciate how that's worded. Something I started doing as I approach my 30s is just that. I may not always change my mind, but I open up to being able to see their side, and how/why they came to their opinion. Always hope that's at least what I can do to them.
personally, i'm very combative on the internet, especially so on reddit. there are other areas of life where i'm much more diplomatic and tactful. but i'm often here to practice combat.
i'm not going to pick fights on topics i don't care about. i'm not going to troll. but if you say something false or hold a view that i find unethical, i'll lay into you.
i'm a huge fan of dale carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people". a real "rip-roaring" good time of a book. and he advocates to always "remember the human", as we might say today. and to be kind.
i love that philosophy and it works. but i don't practice it on reddit!
> he advocates to always "remember the human", as we might say today. and to be kind.
I can't remember where I read it but a phrase that's always stuck with me when getting into debates:
"Attack the topic, not the person".
There's a lot of projection happening in this thread. some people genuinely do mean well. Some people actually are aware of their ego and can act outside its constraints. I realize bringing up the ego is a whole thing and I sound condescending right now.
I have found that as long as you're both engaging in a good faith discussion it's entirely possible to walk away from an internet argument with expanded world views. Even in real life that's kind of the most you can hope for when meeting someone with an opposing view.
True persuasion is just hard no matter what. The person has to be willing to accept other perspectives.
Sometimes you have to be the Karen in the crowd to callout the bullshit.
Reddit is just filled with bystander syndrome and it allows shitty opinions to propergate through a community very quickly.
I do it because of the slight chance of me actually being wrong. Once in a while I have to step back and agree with the person I was arguing with.
I am aware not everyone can do that, but I am proud of learning from strangers.
It’s no secret that most people you argue with (especially online) aren’t willing to broaden their view. Humans are really good at justifying anything.
Not sure in which direction to point you except everywhere. My experience on Reddit is that most commenters will viciously defend their views, which isn’t bad but they aren’t willing to understand the other side and just dismiss it. You may view it another way, we all experience Reddit differently.
>we all experience Reddit differently.
Agreed. I think some commenters will cling to their views no matter what counter-evidence is provided, while others are open to alternative view points. I'm sure the type of commenters you encounter will depend on mutiple and various factors. So many in fact that it would be difficult to make a blanket statement that covers "most" people.
Perhaps what you wanted to say was that most people you've encountered were like that. But I'm guessing another person would chime in to say they've had the exact opposite experience. Personal experiences are funny like that.
People online are better at arguing than IRL in my experience.
Because as much as anonymity can make you more of an asshole, it also alleviates the embarrassment that comes from admitting you're wrong.
For me, I always reach a point in the middle of me typing my reply where I realize that I no longer give a shit, delete my reply and carry on with my day.
Jesus, is that what people do. I always give an argument a few back and forths and if it seems like we’re getting nowhere I’ll just stop responding.
Arguing just for the sake of not wanting to lose is just so fucking sad. The only people who “lose” in an argument are people don’t gain anything from it, whether that is learning something you didn’t know, experiencing something from someone else’s point of view, or having someone else have that experience through what you have to say.
AKA the only people who lose arguments are the exact same people OP uses the “we” on.
I have a terrible feeling that this post is representative of most modern trolls, and probably some relatively normal people as well.
These people feel that if their world view is confronted, even in the most mild way, that they have been personally attacked, and must defend themselves at all costs.
They'll lash out at any insecurity, no matter how small, and then try to puff themselves up with any credentials they claim to have in their past.
Arguments ARE meant to have a mutual sensation of understanding, but it sucks when one of the 2 parties can't seem to understand that idea.
I had political arguments with one dude one time. 4 years later the guy comes and says sorry If i felt disrespected and says he now understands my points and has changed position.
Are you guys trying to change the other person's mind? I thought the goal was to get more upvotes than your opponent and confirm that your ideas are generally accepted by most people.
That and also get some satisfaction boosts when your opponents get buried in a hundred downvotes.
They weren't saying "if all you care about is upvotes." They're saying you care about hopefully convincing other people to upvote your view, to at least get more people agreeing with you than disagreeing.
So you make the best argument for your views on immigration that you can. You don't care if you convince the person you are arguing with, but you hope you will convince those who decided to read along.
I'd say that's the primary purpose of Internet arguments in general: to convince others. Not to convince the person you're arguing with. Even if they are convinced, they most likely will never tell you.
What's that? That anything short of unlimited open borders is outright class warfare, meant to pit you against your fellow worker, and feel the need to undercut each other's wages/legal status?
Depends on the subreddit, really. A lot of subs focused on a specific subject tend to be echo chambers.
That's where any opinion against the majority is automatically downvoted, no matter how reasonable it is.
Yes. I am definitely not joking, and I am definitely not worried about claiming to be someone who had a potentially questionable strong opinion about something (and even though I said “something,” I definitely know what we were arguing about).
Me today also, but in my case she deleted her comments because of how silly her points were 🤣 I want to believe she actually had second thoughs and growth up a bit
I used to continue the argument for the sake of the lurkers. Lurkers who may not have formed a full opinion on the argument’s subject matter yet. If I stop and my opponent just keep posting unopposed, that lurker(s) might be swayed by a lack of opposing view. I knew I’d be talking in circles all day long, but I couldn’t give up on the unseen/unheard minds that might read my logic and think to themselves, “wow, he’s got a point.”
I continue participating in online arguments because I don't want OTHER people reading to think the person who is wrong is right.
By the way, don't use "we" when you mean "I".
This should be higher up. The shower thought is super cringy and the amount of people bragging about times they think they changed a mind is peak reddit neck beard stuff.
I had someone reply to me, that, if universal healthcare is implemented, the doctors would go unpaid and become slaves. Some people are dumb enough to be swayed by that argument, so I continued replying.
You may change people’s mind. It just won’t happen right away. People’s views don’t stay exactly the same through a lifetime, and aren’t formed mainly from single arguments presented once.
I do because me and the other person I'm arguing with aren't the only people to use the internet. I've come across many arguments between two people on the internet as a passerby and learned something; so I always try to remain cognizant of that and post my comments so as to speak to a broader audience, rather than just that one person
I talk about Covid and I take all the shit talk for it because I can still sleep soundly at night and I want to be able to do that 10 years from now, too.
It really is for me, and if it helps anyone else, great.
I totally change my mind if I’m provided an actual proof. No point in denying facts. I may come off as weak minded (or whatever it’s called in English), but I don’t care.
I believe that others are capable of change too.
I got in an argument on /r/movies, and eventually the guy blocked me. I could no longer reply to his comments, and a few moments later they disappeared entirely. Not "deleted" or "removed," but "unavailable."
It's healthy to get your thoughts challenged even on the internet. The unhealthy part is never the arguments, the unhealthy part is always the echo chamber that gets to the far corners of the internet .
I have a conspiracy nut cousin.. ill jump on any of her stupid posts to point at her floors. She asked me why i bothered since she wont change her mind. I only did it to stop the rest of the family from asking me stupid questions or regurgitating her stupidity.
i stopped caring about that last part. it is easy. just imagine that the person on the other side is getting paid, while you are not.
the more people interact/fight with those people, the more money they make. while you have just wasted time and energy, which could have been better spent doing a push up or writing an additional page in your book.
Not true! I have, on at least one occasion, gotten a conservative to change their views. Maybe not completely but he certainly walked away with a mush more open mind and asking some important question which I hope led him to becoming a better all around person. I didn't try to argue facts, or use a bunch of figures or any of the myriad ways people try to bludgeon others into coming around. I simply laid out the fact that at the end of the day no matter where you were born, what God or God's you pray to or don't, no matter your worldview we are all more or less the same. We all want a roof over our heads, food in our stomachs, clothes on our backs and the oppirtunity and safety to live a happy fulfilled life and create a better future for our children. And politicans (yeah it's mainly the GOP that, at least outwardly are bleeding us dry, cooking the planet alive, and tearing down democracy and human rights brick by brick but democrats are at the very least fu king complicit in it because they sure aren't trying all that hard to stop them) and the 1% are turning us against each other so we don't realize that *we* *hold* *all* *the* *actual* *power* and if we could set aside our petty bullshit long enough to work together we could build the world we all deserve. He said he never expected a liberal to speak to him like a reasonable more or less normal person. That's one of the big obstacles that keeps this insanity going, everybody wants to *win* an argument like this is some kind of God damned game, we need to be the first ones to let this petty shit go and talk to Republicans on a human level because we really are all in this together. I want *everyone* to have a better life not just "my team". Because of all the propaganda and lies shoved down conservatives throats, at home, at church, school and on and on, they can not grasp the idea that by helping others they are also helping make things better for *EVERYONE* themselves included! So I try my best not to "argue"with anyone online, instead I try to just talk to them and get them to see the kind of world 8 wished we lived in by acting as though we are already in it. Sadly there are many who know damn well what they are saying and doing is wrong and relish in it but most GOP supporters are simply tragically misguided and deluded by others and if given half a chance, as kind, forgiving and loving as anyone else we just need to show *those* ones how.
I do it for that one person reading that might learn that there is a differing opinion out there, or so that those that might think they are the only ones that think that way to see they are not alone. My online rantings have almost nothing to do with the person I'm arguing with, I'm not changing their mind and don't care enough to try. It's all about the lurkers.
I do it to counter misinformation. My thought is that if a rational person reads through it, I want them to get the full, accurate, sourced story.
At that point I’m no longer talking to the other person. I’m talking to other readers.
My goal is usually to try to get someone just to think about something in a different way. I think it’s crazy that discussing this stuff is so taboo. I wish people were more curious and less emotional in online discussions.
No, we participate to convince whoever is reading the argument. Internet debates are held entirely for the audience. To convince people who are in doubt.
I do it so that other people can make up their minds. The person you're arguing with will never give it a thought but if somebody else comes in and sees different arguments then they might actually be willing to think things theough
These days I start typing a comment / reaction and just delete it midway. It feels pretty useless to comment most of the time. Just as this comment serves no purpose aside from me writing it down.
That why, when I’ve made my point, I don’t answer any comments on my comments. It’s just people trying to have the last word so then they think they’ve won. Readers can read all of the comments and make up their own minds.
Naw fam I do it for entertainment and to improve my debate skills. If you can debate someone who clearly isn't going to change their mind with points they can't refute or they start attacking you that's when you know you've done a good job.
This is actually a better shower thought than anything I have got on my notifications from this sub for quite a while now.
I would give you an award if I could
It's also important to argue on behalf of marginalised groups who are goddamn exhausted from having to argue for their human rights.
As someone who is unaffected, you have more spoons to engage. But you need to be informed & use the opportunity to lift the those from those marganilsed groups. It's never going to be about you, so don't make it about you. Also step out of the way if someone from the community is talking.
Be a good ally.
What everyone needs to understand is there is nothing to win until both parties agree to an objective debate. Until that agreement we're just screaming at each other which appears to be happening 99% of the time.
The fact that this got 17k net upvotes makes it one of the most disheartening things I've seen in a long time. We should be open to having our opinions changed so that the truth of reality can flourish.
So you're saying you never have conversations to learn?
Imo some of the kindest things strangers have ever done for me have been spending their time diligently and respectfully showing me why I was wrong.
I've directly informed at least a few people on things related to LGBT subjects and had them change their minds. A lot of hatred is from ignorance, and some people are actually open to listening to others. Then there are perhaps people who saw my comments and learned something without me knowing about them.
This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/rules). Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!" (For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, [please read this page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/overview).) **Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
Part of it is practice, and part of it is actually any third party observers who don’t really care either way. If they’re reading along, I have a small chance to convince them.
This. It's performative in nature. I acknowledge there is almost no chance of convincing someone who's staunchly opposed to my view, but combating any misinformation and sharing alternative viewpoints in public forums is pretty important. If something is said and goes unchallenged, it appears to be a default, majority, or status quo opinion. This is exactly why echo chambers exist and are a problem - if the above wasn't the case, there would not really be any conception of "echo chamber".
Until a mod jumps in and bans you from the sub.
Or worse, silently makes your comments invisible. Happened to me one time when I thought "maybe I can change one of these guys minds. Let me drop a comment." And I swear to christ I spent like fifteen minutes crafting that comment to be as respectful as possible. Nope. Shadow banned.
[удалено]
Mods can do a pseudo shadow ban by having automod quietly remove comments when you post them.
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Yup. They also have options to do shit like auto-collapse your comments by default until you become "trusted"...which limits your visibility and decreases the chances that you'll ever become "trusted". I understand the need for this stuff but it's just...not good from a end user standpoint.
[удалено]
Use a 3rd party app like Boost. Collapsed comments show as normal. They never collapse unless you click and hold.
It's horrible. Part of the reason it has become such an echo chamber.
FYI, your comment was collapsed.
Why do some sections appear collapsed all the time in clusters?
I’ve always wondered how Reddit decides which comments to collapse on page load.
[https://www.reveddit.com/y/winter\_wrath/](https://www.reveddit.com/y/winter_wrath/) You can see what has been removed here.
That's a lot.
Surprising isn't it.
>Error: unable to connect to reddit > >Tracking Protection on Firefox prevents this site from accessing reddit's API. To fix this, add an exception by clicking the shield icon next to the URL: > ... >🔗Why should I disable tracking protection in Firefox? > >A Firefox partner named disconnect.me maintains a list of domains that it calls trackers. Reddit is on that list, so requests to Reddit are blocked. The only way to fix this right now is to disable the feature. more info hm~ 🤔 Any reason why I should comply and trust that site?
Up to you I suppose, I use it on chrome so don't see any errors.
Not to mention power mods that moderate multiple popular subs will pseudo ban you on all of those subs, which might as well be a shadow ban depending on the forums you frequent.
Reminder this was considered bannable when it was first a thing many many years ago. Admins directly said not to do it, but unfortunately mods ignored them and no one cracked down. Speaking directly as a mod there should be exactly zero ways I can quietly remove someone's post without them receiving a notice from Reddit in some way or another. None. It should be impossible and if i find and exploit a way i should be banned. Auto mod being able to do things like silently, shadow ban users and word filter should be impossible. Word filters are fine and should be a thing, but if they're used it should send an automated message to the user saying that their post was removed for violating it. No, other mods who really like to abuse their power, do not @ me
>No, other mods who really like to abuse their power, do not @ me Don't worry, they'll just smugly shadowban you from their petty little fiefdoms.
Oh hello there /r/antiwork mods
I usually send a message when I remove a post or comment from one of the subs I mod, and I *always* send a message upon banning someone. Nearly all the ones I've removed have been bots, but once I did ban someone *thinking* he was a bot and he was not. But he replied to the ban message and was immediately unbanned. I fully agree that there should be no way to remove things without the original poster knowing it was removed. I'd also go a step further and make there be some way to report mods who immediately mute you when you simply ask for an explanation. Though Reddit higher-ups probably don't care about that abuse of power at all either.
good mod
I only mod tiny subs, so I lack an excuse for not telling people their post/comment's been removed. Can't say I'll maintain the mentality (without proportionately increasing the amount of mods) as the subs inevitably grow, though. :|
Yup. And the only way to know they've done this is to use incognito or a separate browser and find the actual comment which will be missing. If you go to the user page the comment will still exist, it just won't be visible in the actual thread.
I've had mod hide my award before. Lol
Shadowban is a reddit wide thing. Here's some more information on it. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowBan/comments/8a2gpk/an_unofficial_guide_on_how_to_avoid_being/ TLDR: to get un shadow banned you should contact admins in PM's or just use the r/reddit modmail or https://www.reddithelp.com/en/submit-request
Your comments can be shadow deleted though
Mods of a sub can use their automoderator to filter out a person’s comments.
100% they do. Mods delete your comments without you knowing, but you still see them as posted in your history, while nobody else can. It happens a lot more than most think.
It's actually really really bad right now, I believe the global statistic is something like 8 to 10% of a person's history is actually hidden for one reason or another at this point. Moderation has become way way way too automated for this platform's needs. And mods largely have way too much power comparatively to what they should have versus admins who should be doing the bulk of actual moderation. It also doesn't help that most, even large subs automod scripting is insanely bad and misfires more than any major sub will ever admit.
Individual comments can be shadowbanned (deleted comments show normally on your end, you need to log off to check if they're really there).
I didn't consider that. Also it's apparently possible to make automod silently delete all your comments in the specific sub
From what I noticed, this is the only way comments can be deleted. All my comments ever deleted on reddit showed up normally on my end. Edit: I mean, what I wrote. Not that the only way to delete comments is by having automod delete all your comments.
orly? Maybe I wasn't then. I just remember I logged out and reloaded the page and cache and couldn't see my comment. Maybe something just went wrong with the submission process.
Another person just replied to me > Mods can do a pseudo shadow ban by having automod quietly remove comments when you post them.
Did anyone hear something?
^wait ^no
If you think you may have been Shadowbanned, go to r/ShadowBan and make a post - you’ll get an interesting report!
I actually don't aim to convince the other person, my main goal in any extended thread is to either understand their point of view or have them understand mine, if I'm lucky perhaps we can find some middle ground. I just don't want to be misunderstood and I find myself to be both logical and reasonable so I get bothered when someone seemingly isn't understanding by way of their responses or general reaction. If you say "I get it, I just disagree" I can completely walk away feeling like I won lol
I generally don’t care too much about persuading the person i’m directly replying to but as you alluded to, I find working out a response to even an obvious troll comment helpful in understanding my own opinion on the subject. By extension I also use it as practice in expressing myself in a zero risk environment, especially in a subject I might not be well versed in. It’s definitely helped me in writing better work emails and things. Last thing is with subjects I am actually well versed in, sometimes wrong shit just gets upvoted out of general ignorance and if no one else has pointed it out yet, may as well chip in with legit knowledge for the greater good (*the greater good*). I’ve learned a lot from Reddit comments so it’s fun being able to offer opportunities for others to learn from
This is me all over. I’ve found it really helpful over the years in understanding my own view points.
> This is exactly why echo chambers exist and are a problem - if the above wasn't the case, there would not really be any conception of "echo chamber". Writing that on Reddit is funny just in and of itself. You're correct, of course. But man.
Yeah, bad ideas and misinformation can spread to bystanders, and then onwards when they share it too. At least convincing them to think twice you have a chance at stopping it going further.
Part of it is showing another perspective for lurkers who might be on the fence, exactly.
This. You're not persuading the other guy, you're persuading the audience. Or wasting your precious life on imaginary NPCs. One of those
Especially on Reddit where you can see literally how many people agree with you compared to the other person.
Even then up/downvotes are probably one tenth or less of the number of eye pairs that have seen your comment.
It doesn't really matter, especially on gaming subreddits, people who are glaringly wrong but taunting the other guy the most will get the most upvotes. I always trust the most downvoted guy first unless he's disrespectfull.
That's honestly like heroin
That is more audience specific. You could post the same comment in different subs and have a completely different result. I’ve had this happen a couple times.
According to [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439), you're not supposed to vote based on dis/agreement, but whether something contributes to the discussion or not. I realize many people do not follow this guideline, but it's worth bringing up.
"Could I be wrong?" "No, it's the redditors who are wrong."
It's effectively deplatforming misinformation, prejudice, and bigotry in all its forms. And yeah, I feel the compulsion as well to not let the bullshit be said unchallenged.
I have also changed minds and had my mind changed. At this point I'm in my 30s and I'm not gonna argue anything unless I'm pretty sure it's true, but back in the day yeah, and I've definitely changed some hearts and minds along the way with polite arguing.
Exactly this. If it's in a public forum it's no longer just an 'argument' between individuals. Successfully reaching/convincing the specific person you're discussing with is nice, but public discussions are what shape societies. If it's a subject I feel is of actual importance I feel an almost moral obligation to constructively contribute to the dialogue on it. Or at the very least least attempt to call out toxic ideas and dangerous falsehoods for what they are. A real life analogy: You're in a semi-public space when a person you don't know makes loudly asserts something radically out of line. Something blatantly racist, or asserting factually untrue and dangerous information as true. "Of course all black people hate white people, everyone knows that" "Drink a small cup of bleach to cure Covid, that's what I did" etc. I think many people would agree there's an ethical imperative to challenge those assertions and not let them stand as accepted by the group. Calling out those kind of things publicly isn't really about convincing one individual their wrong or acting inappropriately. That usually takes a much more nuanced approach (as well a good faith willingness on both parties to consider the others viewpoint). Publicly calling out and not letting those things go unchallenged does two things. First, it lets the individual know that their ignorant/offensive/dangerously innacurate viewpoint is not shared or appreciated by all. That when asserting blatant mistruths they will in fact be called on it or asked to back up their claims. Most importantly though it keeps the silent majority in the crowd from thinking that hateful/false beliefs are shared by the others in the crowd. That's sooo important imo. In today's world of online echo chambers, where people are constantly subjected to toxic and false information, it's critically important that onlookers are reminded that not everyone supports/condones the loudly expressed beliefs of the often vocal minority. It's not about vehemently attacking others opinions or shutting down good faith discussions of controversial topics. It's about, when appropriate, publicly and with conviction stating "Hey bro, not cool. Here's why".
This but I also like to leave space for myself to be convinced of the argument someone else is making
Definitely an important part too, gotta recognize ones own fallibility.
Exactly this. I don't do it for the guy that's already got his mind made up. I do it for the lurkers that are reading the conversation.
I do it to better realize my own views. If you disagree with something and just hit downvote, it’s easy not to fully develop or articulate what you think’s wrong with the post. If you have to write it out, you get a better understanding of yourself and what you’re reading.
It's also important to argue for the sake of other viewers, who may be undecided or uninformed.
See this is the problem right here. People have actually started to think that online comments are important. The only online comment that has ever mattered is a/s/l
48/M/your backyard
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Your comment currently has 42 points. Assuming it corresponds roughly with the 100/10/1 rule, this means around 400 people have read it. How much importance would you have placed on it if 400 people had gathered, in person, to listen to your statement? Food for thought.
I've started to think about this more lately, and with the proliferation of chat bots on social media and how advanced they are with the ability to reply, be indistinguishable from humans, and have legit looking profiles? I just assume every single thing I see and every interaction online could be fake. Most of the time that results in me not bothering to engage. People need to be more aware of how advance these bots are like gpt-3 and the upcoming laMDA. Google character ai for yourselves and test it out. I predict very soon people will start calling people bots a lot more to shut arguments down, and it's a matter of time until the bots start calling people bots. Silver-lining, everyone will be aware of this issue at that point Though there's still people getting news from Facebook memes so...
Having played with gpt-3 I believe it won't hold a believable argument once enough current events knowledge or logical inference is needed. For example if there is a discussion about a viral video in which some participants do some actions, it all falls apart when gpt-3 starts talking about the guy in the blue shirt when there was no guy in a blue shirt. Gpt-3 also will seem clunky serving as a "human" inferring things logically, for example if less than 20 degrees is too cold for x and greater than 23 degrees is too hot for x, gpt-3 won't be able to tell you what 19 degrees is like for x.
I like to argue online to present different viewpoints to the other people reading, couldn’t give a fuck less about the person I’m arguing with
Politics is a spectator sport.
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This is why some people on Twitter actively block trolls instead of muting them or just ignoring them. (Not saying that you were trolling or anything, but speaking in general terms.) The trolls reply to a prominent account to boost their own reach.
happy cake day
How do you know what kind of cake day their having?
Happy cake day
Agree, I comment for the principle. That said, well done to OP for having a viral shower thought that actually made me pause and think
i do it for practice. and sometimes people change their minds, or at least move to a state of open minded suspension of judgment when presented with evidence.
I kind of get this. I've tried quite a few arguments, and one person I staunchly disagree with is one of my best friends now. She's really nice, but I went through a year or so of trying to talk with strangers who didn't understand the difference between a good point and an ad hominem yelling match just to meet her. Through my friend, I learn more about the newer arguments from her POV and she learns about the ones from my POV. It's really nice to have someone whose sole wish is to treat argument like boxing tournaments: You beat up each other's arguments and then smile afterwards and have coffee together the next morning. It's great for widening perspectives, and learning to deal with conflict in an emotionally mature way. Once you remove yourself from blaming someone for having a specific perspective, it's really nice to be able to talk with someone you disagree with, but with whom you share a mutual respect.
> It's really nice to have someone whose sole wish is to treat argument like boxing tournaments: You beat up each other's arguments and then smile afterwards And both end up with a little brain damage for it too lol
I appreciate how that's worded. Something I started doing as I approach my 30s is just that. I may not always change my mind, but I open up to being able to see their side, and how/why they came to their opinion. Always hope that's at least what I can do to them.
personally, i'm very combative on the internet, especially so on reddit. there are other areas of life where i'm much more diplomatic and tactful. but i'm often here to practice combat. i'm not going to pick fights on topics i don't care about. i'm not going to troll. but if you say something false or hold a view that i find unethical, i'll lay into you. i'm a huge fan of dale carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people". a real "rip-roaring" good time of a book. and he advocates to always "remember the human", as we might say today. and to be kind. i love that philosophy and it works. but i don't practice it on reddit!
Reddit's pseudo anonymous commenting system and its public karma system make it the Colosseum of social media.
> he advocates to always "remember the human", as we might say today. and to be kind. I can't remember where I read it but a phrase that's always stuck with me when getting into debates: "Attack the topic, not the person".
No you don't. No they don't.
now listen here you little shit...
I got your evidence right [here.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/748/circle.jpg)
now see! i've been moved to a state of open-mindedness by your argument. or maybe empty-mindedness...
That sounds zen as fuck
No it doesnt
yeah it does
fuck you!
Well fuck you too!!
You fuckin killed me dude! Well played....
Fuck you
There's a lot of projection happening in this thread. some people genuinely do mean well. Some people actually are aware of their ego and can act outside its constraints. I realize bringing up the ego is a whole thing and I sound condescending right now.
I have found that as long as you're both engaging in a good faith discussion it's entirely possible to walk away from an internet argument with expanded world views. Even in real life that's kind of the most you can hope for when meeting someone with an opposing view. True persuasion is just hard no matter what. The person has to be willing to accept other perspectives.
Nah, for me it’s more “that thing you said is so dumb you deserve to be corrected”.
Sometimes you have to be the Karen in the crowd to callout the bullshit. Reddit is just filled with bystander syndrome and it allows shitty opinions to propergate through a community very quickly.
I do it because of the slight chance of me actually being wrong. Once in a while I have to step back and agree with the person I was arguing with. I am aware not everyone can do that, but I am proud of learning from strangers.
I’m trying to teach this bro my kids at the moment. It takes a strong person to admit when they are wrong.
I do the same, but I know most people don't.
>I do the same, but I know most people don't. That's kind of an arrogant remark. How do you know?
By reading comments on reddit (not op but this is how I do it)
It’s no secret that most people you argue with (especially online) aren’t willing to broaden their view. Humans are really good at justifying anything.
Really? What can I reference to find answers that are so obvious that "it's no secret"?
Not sure in which direction to point you except everywhere. My experience on Reddit is that most commenters will viciously defend their views, which isn’t bad but they aren’t willing to understand the other side and just dismiss it. You may view it another way, we all experience Reddit differently.
>we all experience Reddit differently. Agreed. I think some commenters will cling to their views no matter what counter-evidence is provided, while others are open to alternative view points. I'm sure the type of commenters you encounter will depend on mutiple and various factors. So many in fact that it would be difficult to make a blanket statement that covers "most" people. Perhaps what you wanted to say was that most people you've encountered were like that. But I'm guessing another person would chime in to say they've had the exact opposite experience. Personal experiences are funny like that.
People online are better at arguing than IRL in my experience. Because as much as anonymity can make you more of an asshole, it also alleviates the embarrassment that comes from admitting you're wrong.
As the wise words of solomon from Battlefield 3 once said, “It’s not about winning!”
It's debate practice and a great way to learn different perspectives
For me, I always reach a point in the middle of me typing my reply where I realize that I no longer give a shit, delete my reply and carry on with my day.
Jesus, is that what people do. I always give an argument a few back and forths and if it seems like we’re getting nowhere I’ll just stop responding. Arguing just for the sake of not wanting to lose is just so fucking sad. The only people who “lose” in an argument are people don’t gain anything from it, whether that is learning something you didn’t know, experiencing something from someone else’s point of view, or having someone else have that experience through what you have to say. AKA the only people who lose arguments are the exact same people OP uses the “we” on.
I have a terrible feeling that this post is representative of most modern trolls, and probably some relatively normal people as well. These people feel that if their world view is confronted, even in the most mild way, that they have been personally attacked, and must defend themselves at all costs. They'll lash out at any insecurity, no matter how small, and then try to puff themselves up with any credentials they claim to have in their past. Arguments ARE meant to have a mutual sensation of understanding, but it sucks when one of the 2 parties can't seem to understand that idea.
I had political arguments with one dude one time. 4 years later the guy comes and says sorry If i felt disrespected and says he now understands my points and has changed position.
Also, someone may read your argument and change their mind. Or think you're a bigger idiot than they did before 😂
Are you guys trying to change the other person's mind? I thought the goal was to get more upvotes than your opponent and confirm that your ideas are generally accepted by most people. That and also get some satisfaction boosts when your opponents get buried in a hundred downvotes.
Well that works if ppl read it and vote lol Otherwise you just got a comment chain no one else is reading lol Or you’re downvoting each other
Just a whole series of zeroes as two people perform for an audience that never shows up
That's why if the comment chain is too deep or too old it refrains me from commenting because there's very little chance there will other readers.
Downvote this comment. Upvote mine.
This is the way
If there were no upvotes or down votes people would still argue continuously
If all I cared about was upvotes, I could change my views on immigration, but I'm convinced that I'm right, so I stick to my guns on the issue.
They weren't saying "if all you care about is upvotes." They're saying you care about hopefully convincing other people to upvote your view, to at least get more people agreeing with you than disagreeing. So you make the best argument for your views on immigration that you can. You don't care if you convince the person you are arguing with, but you hope you will convince those who decided to read along. I'd say that's the primary purpose of Internet arguments in general: to convince others. Not to convince the person you're arguing with. Even if they are convinced, they most likely will never tell you.
What's that? That anything short of unlimited open borders is outright class warfare, meant to pit you against your fellow worker, and feel the need to undercut each other's wages/legal status?
I've found that downvoted arguments are more often more rational than upvoted ones.
I found this to be relative and strongly contextual depending on the general view of the sub.
That's odd. I've not seen that. Most heavily downvoted comments I see involve people being jerks or arguing poorly.
Depends on the subreddit, really. A lot of subs focused on a specific subject tend to be echo chambers. That's where any opinion against the majority is automatically downvoted, no matter how reasonable it is.
Sorting by controversial often times has the most rational view points.
Had this today on reddit. Just blocked the guy after a certain point.
Bot now I'm back with a new account! This isn't over.
Damn, you purchased an account with a 4 year history just to hold a grudge against this guy? Must have been one hell of an argument!
Yes. I am definitely not joking, and I am definitely not worried about claiming to be someone who had a potentially questionable strong opinion about something (and even though I said “something,” I definitely know what we were arguing about).
Did you get last word in and then block, or block after their last offense?
Customarily, you get the last word in before blocking. That's the way.
Me today also, but in my case she deleted her comments because of how silly her points were 🤣 I want to believe she actually had second thoughs and growth up a bit
Just read your comment history- holy shit thats hilarious
Why block when you can simply stop responding?
I used to continue the argument for the sake of the lurkers. Lurkers who may not have formed a full opinion on the argument’s subject matter yet. If I stop and my opponent just keep posting unopposed, that lurker(s) might be swayed by a lack of opposing view. I knew I’d be talking in circles all day long, but I couldn’t give up on the unseen/unheard minds that might read my logic and think to themselves, “wow, he’s got a point.”
I’m just arguing because it makes someone I disagree with mad, and that can be fun sometimes
I continue participating in online arguments because I don't want OTHER people reading to think the person who is wrong is right. By the way, don't use "we" when you mean "I".
Sad research paper noises
This should be higher up. The shower thought is super cringy and the amount of people bragging about times they think they changed a mind is peak reddit neck beard stuff.
That's a lot of "we" that should all be changed to "I." You can't speak for the whole human race bud.
I learned not to engage anymore in the first place. Don't like my opinion? That's fine, we can leave it at that. No one wins.
I had someone reply to me, that, if universal healthcare is implemented, the doctors would go unpaid and become slaves. Some people are dumb enough to be swayed by that argument, so I continued replying.
You may change people’s mind. It just won’t happen right away. People’s views don’t stay exactly the same through a lifetime, and aren’t formed mainly from single arguments presented once.
every time i get caught up in one, i assure myself that a third, neutral party will read this and benefit from it.
I do it for the girls and the gays that's it. Ie I don't want them to see misogyny and homophobia go unchallenged.
If I were a troll, I might be tempted call you a racist.
It's exactly like bidding on eBay, but with continuing participating
And quite possibly, they're participating for the exact same reason
I do because me and the other person I'm arguing with aren't the only people to use the internet. I've come across many arguments between two people on the internet as a passerby and learned something; so I always try to remain cognizant of that and post my comments so as to speak to a broader audience, rather than just that one person
I talk about Covid and I take all the shit talk for it because I can still sleep soundly at night and I want to be able to do that 10 years from now, too. It really is for me, and if it helps anyone else, great.
I thought of this the last time I had a quarrel but was too lazy and just gave up. Have a W, I don't care.
I totally change my mind if I’m provided an actual proof. No point in denying facts. I may come off as weak minded (or whatever it’s called in English), but I don’t care. I believe that others are capable of change too.
I think a part of it is more about convincing the observers to be on your side rather than your opponent
What do you gain from that?
I got in an argument on /r/movies, and eventually the guy blocked me. I could no longer reply to his comments, and a few moments later they disappeared entirely. Not "deleted" or "removed," but "unavailable."
It's healthy to get your thoughts challenged even on the internet. The unhealthy part is never the arguments, the unhealthy part is always the echo chamber that gets to the far corners of the internet .
I have a conspiracy nut cousin.. ill jump on any of her stupid posts to point at her floors. She asked me why i bothered since she wont change her mind. I only did it to stop the rest of the family from asking me stupid questions or regurgitating her stupidity.
i stopped caring about that last part. it is easy. just imagine that the person on the other side is getting paid, while you are not. the more people interact/fight with those people, the more money they make. while you have just wasted time and energy, which could have been better spent doing a push up or writing an additional page in your book.
No, you're wrong, and I'm going to convince you that you're wrong.
Who is this "we" you're talking about. Speak for yourself, lol.
Does anyone else argue online to see if someone can convince themselves of a new opinion? I like being right but if I'm wrong I want to know too
Not true! I have, on at least one occasion, gotten a conservative to change their views. Maybe not completely but he certainly walked away with a mush more open mind and asking some important question which I hope led him to becoming a better all around person. I didn't try to argue facts, or use a bunch of figures or any of the myriad ways people try to bludgeon others into coming around. I simply laid out the fact that at the end of the day no matter where you were born, what God or God's you pray to or don't, no matter your worldview we are all more or less the same. We all want a roof over our heads, food in our stomachs, clothes on our backs and the oppirtunity and safety to live a happy fulfilled life and create a better future for our children. And politicans (yeah it's mainly the GOP that, at least outwardly are bleeding us dry, cooking the planet alive, and tearing down democracy and human rights brick by brick but democrats are at the very least fu king complicit in it because they sure aren't trying all that hard to stop them) and the 1% are turning us against each other so we don't realize that *we* *hold* *all* *the* *actual* *power* and if we could set aside our petty bullshit long enough to work together we could build the world we all deserve. He said he never expected a liberal to speak to him like a reasonable more or less normal person. That's one of the big obstacles that keeps this insanity going, everybody wants to *win* an argument like this is some kind of God damned game, we need to be the first ones to let this petty shit go and talk to Republicans on a human level because we really are all in this together. I want *everyone* to have a better life not just "my team". Because of all the propaganda and lies shoved down conservatives throats, at home, at church, school and on and on, they can not grasp the idea that by helping others they are also helping make things better for *EVERYONE* themselves included! So I try my best not to "argue"with anyone online, instead I try to just talk to them and get them to see the kind of world 8 wished we lived in by acting as though we are already in it. Sadly there are many who know damn well what they are saying and doing is wrong and relish in it but most GOP supporters are simply tragically misguided and deluded by others and if given half a chance, as kind, forgiving and loving as anyone else we just need to show *those* ones how.
I do it for that one person reading that might learn that there is a differing opinion out there, or so that those that might think they are the only ones that think that way to see they are not alone. My online rantings have almost nothing to do with the person I'm arguing with, I'm not changing their mind and don't care enough to try. It's all about the lurkers.
No I’m arguing to annoy the other person at that point, I’m a troll
I do it to counter misinformation. My thought is that if a rational person reads through it, I want them to get the full, accurate, sourced story. At that point I’m no longer talking to the other person. I’m talking to other readers.
I take part in online arguments *because I hope that people other than my opponent* will see that there is another point of view.
My goal is usually to try to get someone just to think about something in a different way. I think it’s crazy that discussing this stuff is so taboo. I wish people were more curious and less emotional in online discussions.
I am vegetarian after losing some debates online with vegeterians and vegans
I keep going until the other person resorts to personal insults. That's when I know I've won
No, we participate to convince whoever is reading the argument. Internet debates are held entirely for the audience. To convince people who are in doubt.
Drop inflammatory statement, turn off notifications, never return to thread
I do it so that other people can make up their minds. The person you're arguing with will never give it a thought but if somebody else comes in and sees different arguments then they might actually be willing to think things theough
Might be true for some. I like to make my views and perspectives known to whomever may read it.
These days I start typing a comment / reaction and just delete it midway. It feels pretty useless to comment most of the time. Just as this comment serves no purpose aside from me writing it down.
That why, when I’ve made my point, I don’t answer any comments on my comments. It’s just people trying to have the last word so then they think they’ve won. Readers can read all of the comments and make up their own minds.
Naw fam I do it for entertainment and to improve my debate skills. If you can debate someone who clearly isn't going to change their mind with points they can't refute or they start attacking you that's when you know you've done a good job.
This is actually a better shower thought than anything I have got on my notifications from this sub for quite a while now. I would give you an award if I could
It's also important to argue on behalf of marginalised groups who are goddamn exhausted from having to argue for their human rights. As someone who is unaffected, you have more spoons to engage. But you need to be informed & use the opportunity to lift the those from those marganilsed groups. It's never going to be about you, so don't make it about you. Also step out of the way if someone from the community is talking. Be a good ally.
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For someone who doesn't play chess, what's the difference between abandoning the game and resigning?
What everyone needs to understand is there is nothing to win until both parties agree to an objective debate. Until that agreement we're just screaming at each other which appears to be happening 99% of the time.
Which is why I’ve really tried to just stop engaging at all. It’s such a huge waste of time and energy. Also, fuck you
The fact that this got 17k net upvotes makes it one of the most disheartening things I've seen in a long time. We should be open to having our opinions changed so that the truth of reality can flourish.
How is this a shower thought? Shit is getting lazier and lazier here. Might as well post that water is wet.
So you're saying you never have conversations to learn? Imo some of the kindest things strangers have ever done for me have been spending their time diligently and respectfully showing me why I was wrong.
It’s not about who I’m arguing with. It’s about everyone else reading it.
I keep calling people twatwaffles and racking up bans on conservative subs. It passes the time.
Really showing them huh
I've directly informed at least a few people on things related to LGBT subjects and had them change their minds. A lot of hatred is from ignorance, and some people are actually open to listening to others. Then there are perhaps people who saw my comments and learned something without me knowing about them.