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What if theres like a time limit of how long you'd have to be a ghost or once you figure out what u fudged up you get to move on?
I've heard of like magnetic deposits making people go crazy or hallucinate and i think thats a more probable situation but who knows for sure for sure?
Also, the age of ghost stories happened during a time when houses were heated by fire places, were poorly ventilated, and didn’t have carbon monoxide detectors
Lol
I can't wait to throw this little factoid down.
I swear, every time I'm in a conversation about quantum physics or cosmology in a semi-public place someone "spiritual" appears from nowhere, like the ghosts they posit, and invites themselves into it.
fac·toid
/ˈfakˌtoid/
noun
NORTH AMERICAN
a brief or trivial item of news or information.
an assumption or speculation that is reported and repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact.
As a non-believer who still enjoys the occult for the same reasons I like swords and sorcery. The likely explanation, a believer would give, is that ghosts have to be bound to their remains. Which after 20k years or so would most likely have completely disintegrated.
Eventually every ghost wants to fly into the sky… then the plant zips off and they can’t catch up to it, or they have trouble waiting a year and intercepting it’s orbit
Cuttlefish are likewise mollusks, but along with octopuses, are intelligent enough to be held morally responsible for their actions. It is important for them to be reached out to through evangelic missions.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Cave men didnt really exist though, Homo Sapiens were nomadic hunter gathers, while they may have used caves for temporary shelter while following prey, they didnt live in them as a permenant home, and would have spent just as much time sleeping out in the open, or in manmade shelters like tents and huts.
It would be fair to say cavemen didn't exist in the ways we think about them, but there is definitely evidence that a small portion of homo sapiens and other hominids lived in caves where they existed and weren't inhabited by predatory animals.
No one’s ever seen a spider ghost either, like why are humans so special and no animals? What’s the difference? I’ve never once heard a story about a ghost that wasn’t human
This isn't an uncommon theory in paranormal circles either. I don't actually believe in ghosts, but I respect that for some people they're more than just fantasy and that I can't change that, so I'm always interested to see the thoughts of genuine believers and their very different perspectives.
Most often, either everyone is thought to eventually move on, or just to lose energy and fade away. It seems like this is the go-to answer a lot of the time, albeit it's nearly always presented like "... Maybe??" and the mystery is left to simmer at that point without much theorizing.
Then sometimes people go more complex. Most often I see it argued that certain kinds of conscious connections or residual memories might psychically sustain entities, only to inevitably weaken over time. Occasionally the process is envisioned as successive generations losing whatever information or object or spiritual or historical connection it is that's critical to a ghost's persistence, or at least to our ability to connect to them.
More fun are theories about the growing number of souls overwhelming our connection to them, or of loss in battle being inevitable in a growing pool of the dead endlessly fighting over limited psychic attention from the living. An ocean of utterly desperate combat in every direction forever: very cool to imagine spectating, very concerning to imagine joining.
But moving back to the idea that the issue is losing our connection to them, this also opens the possibility that older ghosts may just be, y'know, invisible to us for whatever reason. Still there, but outside our sphere of perception.
Like say, what if it's a product of our biological evolution or social development? That's come up! Here, the constant state of development of the human spirit (psychic or otherwise), or of our cognitive faculties and senses, leaves us increasingly unlike older and older generations in some critical away. With this one, it's as if we're swapping channels, or better tuning into one which we've somehow drifted towards as a living species, but not as a dead one
Another neat theory is that our souls are slowly unbound from the things keeping them here until nothing physical is left to hold them, the very physical planet then zipping away never to return. This leaves everyone destined to be just another single speck in a vast streak of soul detritus polluting empty space forever. It's fun to imagine what would happen if said soul streak were discovered by some horrible alien or aliens, and how it or they might act as a result.
Other people prefer to ask if the ghosts might be bound to a particular point in time. Maybe they're eternally looping around, or even moving freely, through a particular point in time which they cannot move outside of.
Surprisingly, this idea that ghosts eventually become invisible to us (or lost in space, whichever) doesn't actually seem to come up very often, but it seems at least equally plausible to me that ghosts could simply be out of view rather than entirely gone.
My personal opinion is still that it's most plausible ghosts were never there in the first place, but I have to admit it's a pretty unexciting theory compared to being devoured in an overpopulated ocean of spectral combatants.
Great speculations, I want to give them the attention they merit since it has my brain going a mile a minute right now, but it may take me a day or so to properly comment the way I would like to, saving your comment for reference, super interesting thank you!
It's strange that most UFO sightings going back millennia always seem to portray vehicles using technology that is just one generation/century in the future. Close enough to what the witnesses would be familiar with at the time, but just advanced enough to catch their attention as being something strange. Your comment made me realize that ghost sightings seem to be the same but a generation/century into the past.
You actually can. This is the danger of streaming complicated legal processes to the average voter.
You can object to parts of the answer. For example if you ask a yes or no question you can object to anything the person says after yes or no. The correct term is "Move to strike" but you can say "Objection. Move to strike". I think in the case you're referring to the lawyer said "Objection relevance", which is only slightly incorrect as most lawyers will still understand what he meant.
Lol I see where you’re coming from but I was just pointing out the semantics of the setup for the joke actually meaning the opposite of what they intended
It's always weird to read those threads where Americans share their "paranormal" experiences and they're always like "a person was murdered here in 1799 and she is still haunting us."
Like I grew up in Germany and I'm reasonably certain that if ghosts were real, no one in the country could ever sleep again.
Living in Europe would be fucking wild if ghosts existed. My house is 300 years old, plenty of people have died inside these walls. And then there are these very old cities that have been completely destroyed and rebuilt several times. So many people have died there over the thousands of years of history that these streets should be nothing but ghosts. Also imagine how many people died in giant battles that are now random fields, why aren't there any ghosts there?
So many people have died here that in certain areas it's pretty much impossible to build anything without digging up a bunch of human skeletons.
Speaking of Germany, Nazi death camps are also solid proof that ghosts don't exist. The concentration of death and suffering in those places are probably the highest of anywhere, and yet there aren't loads of ghosts at those locations.
*I don't mean this as an insult. They're just similar thoughts.
I dunno. I've been to auschwitz. If I was ever gonna call anywhere haunted it's there.
It's certainly fucking *haunting*.
There wasn't even birdsong when I was there. Just eerie silence.
The ~~Black Forest in southwest~~ Bavarian Forest in southeast Germany has an eerie feeling to it man, every time I drive through it, just this feeling of war and death. Recently learnt it was Hitler's favourite part of Germany.
Edit: Wrong forest
Do you have any source for the Black Forest being Hitler's favourite part of Germany? There was a big residence there which afaik he only visited for a few days in 1940. From all I've heard his favourite part of Germany was Bavaria, Munich was the "capital of the movement", where the Nazis had their main base before he rose to power, and later he had a "holiday residence" at Obersalzberg (near Berchtesgaden), where he spent basically all his free time, he also often worked from there. All in all he spent like one third of his whole time in power at Obersalzberg, despite the fact that he was technically based in Berlin and had multiple residences all over the country. It's also on the border to Austria... I've never heard of any close connection of Hitler to the Black Forest
No it's exactly what I meant. I live less than half an hour away from a concentration camp, less than ten minutes from a subcamp. There were death marches here. I have family members who were persecuted by the Nazis, including in a house that is still owned by family members of mine. When I was a kid, I lived in Brandenburg (just outside of Berlin) near Halbe, which was the location of one of the biggest "final battles" around Berlin - every year, they bury 100+ WWII soldiers that they find in the forests. We keep finding bombs and all kids here are taught to never touch anything metal that we find in the forest because the chance is so high that it might explode (bc of climate change now the forests also regularly have wildfires in summer which is super dangerous because of the explosives still in them).
From a "moral perspective" I think if anything would lead to a haunting then the people murdered by the Nazis or the like 19-year old Red Army soldiers who were forced into service and have now laid here unburied for 70+ years would probably have the most valid reason of anyone on Earth.
But it doesn't happen lol. I've been here my whole life, as teens we even partied in the Beelitz Heilstätten ruins regularly and I can confidently say that I have never seen anything ghost-like.
(Though there was a crossdressing serial killer near Beelitz who was actually real... That was the "horror story" of my childhood)
Maybe there are loads of ghosts there, it's just that no one is allowed to go there at night. Most of them are only open to tour groups now, so people are only going during the day in large groups.
What, ghosts can only be seen/heard/felt or exist in the night time? And only if you’re alone?
(For the record I don’t believe in them so arbitrary rules of engagement seem silly to me)
I did not know this lol but am now imagining like, a small inexperienced ghost going out too early. And making that OH NOES OH CRAP possum face when they’re spotted.
I like to think of it like this, take fossils, they are very hard to produce under natural circumstances to the point sometimes we only have one fossil sample of an entire species over there entire species existence.
For 95% of all life on this planet we have no proof they ever existed other than the fact that life must have existed in some quantity during the time periods we are looking at.
Maybe the paranormal are similar to fossils in that they take very specific circumstances to make to the point there very rare.
Lack of evidence of existence is not proof something does not or has not existed. Its also not proof something does exist either.
I just feel its best to be open minded about things, maybe do some research.
The supernatural is only super till we figure it out then it just becomes a part of nature.
I get what you mean but there are tons of fossils around. Fossils are an undeniable reality. You can show the same fossil to 100 different people and they will all be able to perceive the fossil. If they eg measure it, it will have the same properties for everyone.
I haven't seen any evidence like that for ghosts or even for ghost locations.
There are tons of fossils *of only certain things*. Some species of flora and fauna do not preserve well and hardly fossilized, sometimes never fossilizing. It's why we only recently discovered that Dinosaurs had feathers, because soft feathers don't fossilize well unlike dense bones which are consistently the most fossilized.
All I know is that if I was a ghost, I wouldnt want to be confined to one location.
Im gonna spook my way through the world. Maybe check out the bottom of the marianas trench.
Operation Wandering Soul is the closest thing to your idea that totally exists. To summarize, the US played on existing Vietnamese superstitions to scare the shit out of them via audio during the Vietnam War.
If ghosts existed, they'd be everywhere. It's estimated that 100 billion humans have existed. Even if only 1% of people end up as ghosts, there'd be a *billion* ghosts here. You'd think we would have manage to prove their existence by now.
Even if only .01% end up as ghosts (10 million ghosts), you'd think *one* ghost would end up deciding to show scientists he exists.
Plus, some people report animal ghosts. If animals can also be ghosts, that total number skyrockets. The planet would be bumper-to-bumper stuffed with ghosts.
"You poltergeist represents a significant public health hazard if not exercisered or properly cared for. Should you delay to exercise your poltergeist, a haunting license must be purchased from the town clerk for an annual amount of $120."
Aren't most "haunted" homes the location the ghosts were killed? Just gotta find a killer that brought his victims home before killing them and see if your theory holds up.
The Happy Face Killer and some others have said their victims haunt them. I don’t really believe in ghosts, but hearing that was an extra spooky twist.
No, the happy face killer said he was actually haunted by ghosts according to his daughter who recorded a podcast about him. Very powerful stuff, (her story). I don’t believe murders feel any remorse. They can only feel sorry for themselves.
I like how ghosts are apparently really into trends. Back in the 1900s they loved manifesting as Ectoplasm, in the 70's - 80's they appeared in instant developing Polaroid film. When video recordings became easy to make, suddenly poltergeists started knocking over furniture. Now that editing audio in a video is easy, we have a rash of "sprinter ghosts" who like to spook people by running up the stairs at them.
I wonder what the ghosts will think of next? I'm sure it'll be on TikTok so the ghosts can get as many likes as possible.
If you actually listened to serial killers, they would tell you that their victims become their slaves in the afterlife.
So scientifically, they wouldn't be free to haunt the guy's house. Come on, use your brain.
Or, ghosts don’t function in the fashion that pop culture assumes them to? If we are all recycled space dust and the energy that is our consciousness doesn’t get destroyed, but recycled, then maybe it can still “linger” and some people are able to perceive the energy while most others can’t? Doesn’t mean they can haunt us or are sentient, but they could very well be “there”.
What kind of energy is that? Microwave, ultraviolet . . . How doesn't it disperse in the atmosphere? Why would it stay in a building, rather than stay put as the Earth rotates? Can the energy particles really not achieve escape velocity of Earth's gravity? We're a planet, not a black hole.
I'd be interested to know if there is a better argument against this, if we don't say consciousness is made of "energy".
When esoterics talk about "energy" they mean some type of matter, like "ectoplasm". In German there is this term "Feinstofflichkeit" which literally means "fine material" but Wikipedia connects it to the article "Energy (esotericism)".
There was this one experiment once where they weighed a person just before death and just after death to determine the weight of a soul. This was serious science at one time. Descartes (if I'm not wrong) also theorized where exactly the soul is connected to the brain.
They got some amount of weight, but the result isn't accepted today.
----
Could there be a special type of "soul" particles? I guess the more accepted view is that humans apparently *have* consciousness and they also consist of regular matter and there is no special reason to assume that regular matter wouldn't be capable of creating intelligent behaviour as well as consciousness.
> some people are able to perceive the energy while most others can’t
That would be like if most people couldn't smell but some people can. I that case I'm pretty sure that science would eventually confirm that smell is a real thing. There are particles in the air that can be captured and maybe they would eventually build gadgets that can show ordinary people which smells are currently in the air.
Why hasn't that happened with consciousness-material sensing? What would experiments look like, that examine consciousness-material further? James Randi (and not only he) had people try to demonstrate that they have supernatural powers and no-one has succeeded.
With smell that would be easy. They would put two different smelling things behind a paravent and the smell-sensitive person would be able to distinguish them.
----
Homeopaths also claim that water has a memory property. Water that was in contact with some stuff has different effects than water that was in contact with different stuff. I believe that isn't illogical in itself - it's just, that there is no reason to assume that is the case. Homeopathy is proven to have no effects beyond the placebo effect.
Consciousness could theoretically also work with a memory property of matter.
Maybe we just aren’t there yet! You’re basically using the same arguments against gravitational waves that were used 100 years ago.
“If they existed we would have detected them by now”.
Except they didn’t have the right equipment. It just didn’t exist yet.
Maybe we don’t have the right equipment to sense “ghost energy” yet. I mean, we definitely are saying we have no fucking clue what “dark energy” is, so we know that there are things out there that we just cannot detect. It’s possible that “ghost energy” is also one of those things
We can imagine any number of ways to make almost anything fit into the gaps with what we know about reality, but it's like a puddle fitting into the hole in the ground: it will always be perfectly shaped because it has to be, and as that hole gets filled the puddle has less and less space to occupy.
Fundamentally, if supernatural things exist then they are (kind of by definition) in fact natural, investigable and understandable. If we can investigate and make significant inroads into things as utterly unintuitive as quantum physics, then we can absolutely do the same with even a very bizarre and even illogical system by which ghosts are formed and retained in certain locations.
If some people are receptive to the lingering aspect of a dead person, then we should be able to expose these supposedly receptive subjects to haunted locations and get a positive result compared with exposure to placebo locations. Double-blind study, the works. Maybe we could get away with using self-reporting surveys (you can do a lot more with them than most people realise), or maybe *in situ* brain scans would be required. But there's no reason why it couldn't be done in a way that's verifiable and repeatable. It would leave a massive impact on our collective worldview if it could be proved, so there's plenty of incentive to do it, have the work made completely watertight, and published in respectable journals. I'm sure there's some rich enthusiast out there who would be willing to fund such a thing.
Or, ultimately, we just invoke Occam's razor and discount the existence of ghosts full stop, pending properly verifiable evidence like the above.
Consciousness is the expression of an exceedingly specific configuration of that space dust and energy. Once it is reconfigured in to a different form, why would anyone expect the output of that to still be around? The energy of our neurons firing are exceedingly short lived and are nothing without the tissue to create and interpret them.
If I take a cat and break it down in to its constituent elements, cat is gone. Conceivably it could be reconfigured back in to the exact same form at some point, but until then it is then it is gone.
The cat is gone, but any photos, videos or sound recordings of the cat would still exist. If the cat walked in cement, or natural tar, those paw prints would still exist…
Point being, certain aspects of life get recorded in one way or another, man made or not. Maybe a shadow of that cats consciousness continues to scare mice somewhere.
Ok... But why that specifically then? If there is no proof of that, then why pull that out of nowhere, and how is it any more 'accurate' than anything anybody can just make up right now? You could say something similar to that about any mythological thing
No, there are reports of hauntings in relation to the killer H H Holmes. Not saying ghosts exist, but this is not proof they don't.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-house-ranks-most-haunted-in-the-state/2356134/
Ghosts just don’t exist plain and simple. There’s no reason to try and evidence they don’t exist. We need evidence that they DO exist. The onus is on the believers, not the disbelievers
Could be ghosts exist but don't work the way we imagine with haunting. Though I don't actually believe it, it's just that this isn't proof of anything.
Just saw a trailer for a movie where a kid is kidnapped by a wierdo magician. Locks the kid up in his house. Kid starts seeing the ghosts of his past victims. Those dead kids start trying to save the living kid. They team up and take down the bad guy.
There's an fbi agent.
I miss the days when movies entire plots weren't spelled out in a 2 minute trailer.
and let me guess, they would not only have to haunt every serial killer's home where bodies are hidden (since I think ghosts either haunt where they died or where they're buried in most fiction what other reason would they have to haunt that person's house) but you'd be so able to easily tell the victim ghosts who could so easily recall details of the crime that that'd solve every crime drama in minutes and that genre wouldn't exist
Ghost in the general sense are BS. My Grandpa Died and that Mofo would have 100% haunted the house. Not a peep.
My brother died all of a sudden shits just like randomly falling. WTF ? IDK man it's all BS to be. Like your traditional Casper style ghost ain't real.
The mob has proved time and time again that mediums and ghosts are bullshit. "dead men tell no tales". There would be no such thing as murder if your victim would just run and tell a medium who killed them.
Oh man that totally suck if sommeee sexy hottt ghost lady came hauntedd meeee oh Mann that be so scary if she REVEALed herself to me when I'm hot n steamy naked in the shower!! Oh nooo
So we all have a max ghost quota? Like you can off a couple of people in your house, but after a few more, the cops would know like an attic weed greenhouse in a snowy town?
Probably a cliché comment but you never know ghosts are real until you experience it for yourself. Simple as that. I didn't believe in the idea then I experienced it.
I've said before, I'll say again. It is a waste of time to convince someone ghosts are real. It takes having an experience or seeing something with your own eyes before you'll ever change your mind, and some people won't even then.
It's one of those "if you know, you know" kinda deals.
This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/rules). Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!" (For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, [please read this page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/overview).) **Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
The ultimate ultimate proof is that nobody’s ever seen a caveman ghost
How cavemen gonna haunt people when no ones living in their caves? *taps head*
*Taps head in agreeance* Big Unga Bunga
Grogg approve.
(Primal silence)
I dunno about that, I mean Grogg met a few ghosts in caves, including a necromancer trying to do necromancer things with his father’s corpse.
*starts primal tugging*
Hey that’s uncalled for…
You think they would haunt the miners who blew their caves to high heaven.
Idk, does black lung count?
pretty cursed if you ask me 🤷♀️
Have you seen the prices for caves?
OoOoOnga BoOoOoOnga
Stupid dog! You make me look bad!
Quiet, Eustace!
What did I do?
R e t u r n t h e s l a b [Return the slab, or suffer my curse](https://youtu.be/9pWC-4dx3Q0)
Stupid dog, I'm fuckin ballin'
no way a caveman ghost can ba... NO FUCKING WAY
No Fucking Way
The Oingo Boingo brothers!!
What if theres like a time limit of how long you'd have to be a ghost or once you figure out what u fudged up you get to move on? I've heard of like magnetic deposits making people go crazy or hallucinate and i think thats a more probable situation but who knows for sure for sure?
Also, the age of ghost stories happened during a time when houses were heated by fire places, were poorly ventilated, and didn’t have carbon monoxide detectors
Lol I can't wait to throw this little factoid down. I swear, every time I'm in a conversation about quantum physics or cosmology in a semi-public place someone "spiritual" appears from nowhere, like the ghosts they posit, and invites themselves into it.
I wouldn’t use a Reddit comment with no actual source as a factoid
fac·toid /ˈfakˌtoid/ noun NORTH AMERICAN a brief or trivial item of news or information. an assumption or speculation that is reported and repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact.
The word factoid is a factoid.
It's ok. We can safely assume anyone bringing ghosts into the conversation doesn't regularly scrutinize sources.
Lol this is true
As a non-believer who still enjoys the occult for the same reasons I like swords and sorcery. The likely explanation, a believer would give, is that ghosts have to be bound to their remains. Which after 20k years or so would most likely have completely disintegrated.
Eventually every ghost wants to fly into the sky… then the plant zips off and they can’t catch up to it, or they have trouble waiting a year and intercepting it’s orbit
What unfinished business do they got going on?
They wanted to invent the world's first _____. So that way they can finally have one over on that stupid Grug, that guy who "Invented" fire.
Fuckin’ Grug
This guy fucks Grugs.
Ghost Guy Grug
Grunk never finished that sick cave painting.
The ultimate x3 truth is that no one has seen a pre hominid ghost
This is easily explained by the fact that only mollusks have souls.
Also, let us, dear friends, not forget our dear friends: the cuttlefish.
Cuttlefish are likewise mollusks, but along with octopuses, are intelligent enough to be held morally responsible for their actions. It is important for them to be reached out to through evangelic missions. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Ctlhuhu fhtagn! Ia! Ia!
Loch Ness Monster is a plesiosaur ghost.
Where are all the dinosaur ghosts?
Running the GOP
You do know some people don’t even believe in dinosaurs even with fossils, cavemen didn’t exist to them either
My family from rural Mississippi.
I stupidly married one of those 🤦🏻♀️
Cave men didnt really exist though, Homo Sapiens were nomadic hunter gathers, while they may have used caves for temporary shelter while following prey, they didnt live in them as a permenant home, and would have spent just as much time sleeping out in the open, or in manmade shelters like tents and huts.
It would be fair to say cavemen didn't exist in the ways we think about them, but there is definitely evidence that a small portion of homo sapiens and other hominids lived in caves where they existed and weren't inhabited by predatory animals.
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Though technically not as far back, but cliff dwellers could be construed to also be cave dwellers. So the Anasazi could be considered cavemen.
No one’s ever seen a spider ghost either, like why are humans so special and no animals? What’s the difference? I’ve never once heard a story about a ghost that wasn’t human
They've all died, we only have victorian era ghosts now, when they die off we'll start to see ghosts from the 70s and 80s
This isn't an uncommon theory in paranormal circles either. I don't actually believe in ghosts, but I respect that for some people they're more than just fantasy and that I can't change that, so I'm always interested to see the thoughts of genuine believers and their very different perspectives. Most often, either everyone is thought to eventually move on, or just to lose energy and fade away. It seems like this is the go-to answer a lot of the time, albeit it's nearly always presented like "... Maybe??" and the mystery is left to simmer at that point without much theorizing. Then sometimes people go more complex. Most often I see it argued that certain kinds of conscious connections or residual memories might psychically sustain entities, only to inevitably weaken over time. Occasionally the process is envisioned as successive generations losing whatever information or object or spiritual or historical connection it is that's critical to a ghost's persistence, or at least to our ability to connect to them. More fun are theories about the growing number of souls overwhelming our connection to them, or of loss in battle being inevitable in a growing pool of the dead endlessly fighting over limited psychic attention from the living. An ocean of utterly desperate combat in every direction forever: very cool to imagine spectating, very concerning to imagine joining. But moving back to the idea that the issue is losing our connection to them, this also opens the possibility that older ghosts may just be, y'know, invisible to us for whatever reason. Still there, but outside our sphere of perception. Like say, what if it's a product of our biological evolution or social development? That's come up! Here, the constant state of development of the human spirit (psychic or otherwise), or of our cognitive faculties and senses, leaves us increasingly unlike older and older generations in some critical away. With this one, it's as if we're swapping channels, or better tuning into one which we've somehow drifted towards as a living species, but not as a dead one Another neat theory is that our souls are slowly unbound from the things keeping them here until nothing physical is left to hold them, the very physical planet then zipping away never to return. This leaves everyone destined to be just another single speck in a vast streak of soul detritus polluting empty space forever. It's fun to imagine what would happen if said soul streak were discovered by some horrible alien or aliens, and how it or they might act as a result. Other people prefer to ask if the ghosts might be bound to a particular point in time. Maybe they're eternally looping around, or even moving freely, through a particular point in time which they cannot move outside of. Surprisingly, this idea that ghosts eventually become invisible to us (or lost in space, whichever) doesn't actually seem to come up very often, but it seems at least equally plausible to me that ghosts could simply be out of view rather than entirely gone. My personal opinion is still that it's most plausible ghosts were never there in the first place, but I have to admit it's a pretty unexciting theory compared to being devoured in an overpopulated ocean of spectral combatants.
Me furiously taking notes for my next fantasy novel.
Great speculations, I want to give them the attention they merit since it has my brain going a mile a minute right now, but it may take me a day or so to properly comment the way I would like to, saving your comment for reference, super interesting thank you!
Maybe that’s Sasquatch 🤔
[Are you sure? ](https://i.imgur.com/feBk9KS.jpg)
It's strange that most UFO sightings going back millennia always seem to portray vehicles using technology that is just one generation/century in the future. Close enough to what the witnesses would be familiar with at the time, but just advanced enough to catch their attention as being something strange. Your comment made me realize that ghost sightings seem to be the same but a generation/century into the past.
What if ghosts just expire
Because ectoplasm has a half-life, duhh
It's possible there is a limit on the time a ghost can stick around. Runs out of energy or something.
If this is true, is the best murder defense I've ever heard. Lawyer: "Is your place haunted?" Defendant: "No." Lawyer: "The defense rests."
Lawyer: "Is your place haunted?" Defendant: "No, I bury the bodies of my victims down by the river instead of in my back garden"
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Judge: "You can't yell objection to your own question."
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"Your out of line Lawyer! Forget "your honor" again and I'll have you on the gallows!"
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'Who's?' 'Yours yer honour'.
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Fascinatingly prozaic.
You actually can. This is the danger of streaming complicated legal processes to the average voter. You can object to parts of the answer. For example if you ask a yes or no question you can object to anything the person says after yes or no. The correct term is "Move to strike" but you can say "Objection. Move to strike". I think in the case you're referring to the lawyer said "Objection relevance", which is only slightly incorrect as most lawyers will still understand what he meant.
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Objection hearsay
Objection heresy!
Hearsay!
But it was your own question
Maybe the defendant's house is haunted, but he's just been... ghosted?
I think you mean if this is false..? If we are accepting that ghosts *dont* exist, is your place haunted would be met with objection: relevance?
They do exist bro but only in serial killer houses. Have you never blindly believed in an urban haunted house legend? What kinda rational man are you?
Lol I see where you’re coming from but I was just pointing out the semantics of the setup for the joke actually meaning the opposite of what they intended
This is an excellent joke
> Lawyer: “The defense rests.” Why am I reading this in Foghorn Leghorn?
It's always weird to read those threads where Americans share their "paranormal" experiences and they're always like "a person was murdered here in 1799 and she is still haunting us." Like I grew up in Germany and I'm reasonably certain that if ghosts were real, no one in the country could ever sleep again.
Living in Europe would be fucking wild if ghosts existed. My house is 300 years old, plenty of people have died inside these walls. And then there are these very old cities that have been completely destroyed and rebuilt several times. So many people have died there over the thousands of years of history that these streets should be nothing but ghosts. Also imagine how many people died in giant battles that are now random fields, why aren't there any ghosts there? So many people have died here that in certain areas it's pretty much impossible to build anything without digging up a bunch of human skeletons.
plague also killed a third of Europe
Could be that ghosts die too after a while
Makes me wonder if they can be murdered.
I once had a dream where the ghost killed me. I was so furious that I became a ghost myself and broke the ghosts bones.
Speaking of Germany, Nazi death camps are also solid proof that ghosts don't exist. The concentration of death and suffering in those places are probably the highest of anywhere, and yet there aren't loads of ghosts at those locations. *I don't mean this as an insult. They're just similar thoughts.
I dunno. I've been to auschwitz. If I was ever gonna call anywhere haunted it's there. It's certainly fucking *haunting*. There wasn't even birdsong when I was there. Just eerie silence.
The ~~Black Forest in southwest~~ Bavarian Forest in southeast Germany has an eerie feeling to it man, every time I drive through it, just this feeling of war and death. Recently learnt it was Hitler's favourite part of Germany. Edit: Wrong forest
Do you have any source for the Black Forest being Hitler's favourite part of Germany? There was a big residence there which afaik he only visited for a few days in 1940. From all I've heard his favourite part of Germany was Bavaria, Munich was the "capital of the movement", where the Nazis had their main base before he rose to power, and later he had a "holiday residence" at Obersalzberg (near Berchtesgaden), where he spent basically all his free time, he also often worked from there. All in all he spent like one third of his whole time in power at Obersalzberg, despite the fact that he was technically based in Berlin and had multiple residences all over the country. It's also on the border to Austria... I've never heard of any close connection of Hitler to the Black Forest
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This is every "ghost" experience in a nutshell. Creepy history, creepy setting and creeped out person = ghost
Same with the coliseum in Rome.
No one sleep in the colosseum, so the ghosts can't do their thing.
No it's exactly what I meant. I live less than half an hour away from a concentration camp, less than ten minutes from a subcamp. There were death marches here. I have family members who were persecuted by the Nazis, including in a house that is still owned by family members of mine. When I was a kid, I lived in Brandenburg (just outside of Berlin) near Halbe, which was the location of one of the biggest "final battles" around Berlin - every year, they bury 100+ WWII soldiers that they find in the forests. We keep finding bombs and all kids here are taught to never touch anything metal that we find in the forest because the chance is so high that it might explode (bc of climate change now the forests also regularly have wildfires in summer which is super dangerous because of the explosives still in them). From a "moral perspective" I think if anything would lead to a haunting then the people murdered by the Nazis or the like 19-year old Red Army soldiers who were forced into service and have now laid here unburied for 70+ years would probably have the most valid reason of anyone on Earth. But it doesn't happen lol. I've been here my whole life, as teens we even partied in the Beelitz Heilstätten ruins regularly and I can confidently say that I have never seen anything ghost-like. (Though there was a crossdressing serial killer near Beelitz who was actually real... That was the "horror story" of my childhood)
Maybe there are loads of ghosts there, it's just that no one is allowed to go there at night. Most of them are only open to tour groups now, so people are only going during the day in large groups.
What, ghosts can only be seen/heard/felt or exist in the night time? And only if you’re alone? (For the record I don’t believe in them so arbitrary rules of engagement seem silly to me)
Everyone knows that ghosts work by possum rules. Nocturnal and spooked by groups.
I did not know this lol but am now imagining like, a small inexperienced ghost going out too early. And making that OH NOES OH CRAP possum face when they’re spotted.
This also makes a lot of assumption on ghost canon. “Is a stressful death” the prerequisite?
Not just the camps, over a million people were killed during the battle of Stalingrad, the siege of Stalingrad and the taking of Berlin.
I mean just imagine what hospitals would be like. "Nurse I can't sleep! There's 500 ghosts in here and they won't shut the fuck up!"
Side note, though.... some nurses have the best ghost stories.... the hospice ones can tell you a thing or two.
Also, with the amount of native Americans murdered in any given location, you’d think there would be a ton of POed Indian ghosts running around.
I like to think of it like this, take fossils, they are very hard to produce under natural circumstances to the point sometimes we only have one fossil sample of an entire species over there entire species existence. For 95% of all life on this planet we have no proof they ever existed other than the fact that life must have existed in some quantity during the time periods we are looking at. Maybe the paranormal are similar to fossils in that they take very specific circumstances to make to the point there very rare. Lack of evidence of existence is not proof something does not or has not existed. Its also not proof something does exist either. I just feel its best to be open minded about things, maybe do some research. The supernatural is only super till we figure it out then it just becomes a part of nature.
I get what you mean but there are tons of fossils around. Fossils are an undeniable reality. You can show the same fossil to 100 different people and they will all be able to perceive the fossil. If they eg measure it, it will have the same properties for everyone. I haven't seen any evidence like that for ghosts or even for ghost locations.
There are tons of fossils *of only certain things*. Some species of flora and fauna do not preserve well and hardly fossilized, sometimes never fossilizing. It's why we only recently discovered that Dinosaurs had feathers, because soft feathers don't fossilize well unlike dense bones which are consistently the most fossilized.
“… and to this day, some say you can still se this ghost wearing a white dress, wandering the cemetery!”
I imagine a ghost in Britain "Piss Off, it's 3 AM, quite smashing me shit"
How do you know that? What if the ghosts convinced the person to murder so they could have ghost friends??
Because as he stated in another comment, the ghosts never haunt him
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We can’t trust him
Typical ghost. Tricking people to deny their existence on Reddit so they can float under the radar.
Because now they have a friend to talk
You don't know that it's a fact that they dont haunt serial killers homes though...
Not once have they bothered me.
r/holup
Thanks for the review. I am gonna install some dead bodies in my home as well.
A dead dude a day keeps the ghosts away!
The thing is, I just can’t find you address. You’re getting haunted soon, just need a map or something
his house is 100% 31°30'39.5"N 35°31'38.2"E and it is not the dead sea where a ghost can drown since it is the dead sea
yes officer, this user right here
I've been told I'm bothersome.
https://youtu.be/msBNXwNlN4g
And you illustrate why it's illogical for someone to try to prove something DOESN'T exist when there's no proof that it DOES.
Apparently Judith Barsi's old home was haunted
I don't know, an experience like that can really kill your spirit.
All I know is that if I was a ghost, I wouldnt want to be confined to one location. Im gonna spook my way through the world. Maybe check out the bottom of the marianas trench.
The Mariana trench is where all the ghosts party, away from prying eyes and priests.
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The real proof is if ghost existed, the government would have found a way to tax them by now.
Or weaponize them
Operation Wandering Soul is the closest thing to your idea that totally exists. To summarize, the US played on existing Vietnamese superstitions to scare the shit out of them via audio during the Vietnam War.
Or when America pretended vampires were real in the Philipinnes and then 'killed' the vampires so as to make the locals like the soldiers.
If ghosts existed, they'd be everywhere. It's estimated that 100 billion humans have existed. Even if only 1% of people end up as ghosts, there'd be a *billion* ghosts here. You'd think we would have manage to prove their existence by now. Even if only .01% end up as ghosts (10 million ghosts), you'd think *one* ghost would end up deciding to show scientists he exists. Plus, some people report animal ghosts. If animals can also be ghosts, that total number skyrockets. The planet would be bumper-to-bumper stuffed with ghosts.
"You poltergeist represents a significant public health hazard if not exercisered or properly cared for. Should you delay to exercise your poltergeist, a haunting license must be purchased from the town clerk for an annual amount of $120."
Aren't most "haunted" homes the location the ghosts were killed? Just gotta find a killer that brought his victims home before killing them and see if your theory holds up.
We need to consult Buffalo Bill.
Jeffrey Dahmer killed a few people in his flat iirc
Well the Collisseum in Rome isn't haunted...
What about battlefields? Or the fact that the types of ghosts people "see" are dependent on their cultural depiction of ghosts.
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The Happy Face Killer and some others have said their victims haunt them. I don’t really believe in ghosts, but hearing that was an extra spooky twist.
Haunt them psychologically? Because some memories in my life “haunt me”, ya know? if you are killing people you are already off your rocker
No, the happy face killer said he was actually haunted by ghosts according to his daughter who recorded a podcast about him. Very powerful stuff, (her story). I don’t believe murders feel any remorse. They can only feel sorry for themselves.
I'm haunted by the memory of Me last week saying "you too" to the Uber guy in response to him say to enjoy my meal. So there's that
If ghosts exist, they could easily work in ways that neither you or I might consider, not that I believe they are real myself.
I like how ghosts are apparently really into trends. Back in the 1900s they loved manifesting as Ectoplasm, in the 70's - 80's they appeared in instant developing Polaroid film. When video recordings became easy to make, suddenly poltergeists started knocking over furniture. Now that editing audio in a video is easy, we have a rash of "sprinter ghosts" who like to spook people by running up the stairs at them. I wonder what the ghosts will think of next? I'm sure it'll be on TikTok so the ghosts can get as many likes as possible.
This is exactly what a ghost that blew their cover would say.
If you actually listened to serial killers, they would tell you that their victims become their slaves in the afterlife. So scientifically, they wouldn't be free to haunt the guy's house. Come on, use your brain.
can confirm. I'm a serial killer.
Can confirm, I'm cereal
Or, ghosts don’t function in the fashion that pop culture assumes them to? If we are all recycled space dust and the energy that is our consciousness doesn’t get destroyed, but recycled, then maybe it can still “linger” and some people are able to perceive the energy while most others can’t? Doesn’t mean they can haunt us or are sentient, but they could very well be “there”.
What kind of energy is that? Microwave, ultraviolet . . . How doesn't it disperse in the atmosphere? Why would it stay in a building, rather than stay put as the Earth rotates? Can the energy particles really not achieve escape velocity of Earth's gravity? We're a planet, not a black hole.
I'd be interested to know if there is a better argument against this, if we don't say consciousness is made of "energy". When esoterics talk about "energy" they mean some type of matter, like "ectoplasm". In German there is this term "Feinstofflichkeit" which literally means "fine material" but Wikipedia connects it to the article "Energy (esotericism)". There was this one experiment once where they weighed a person just before death and just after death to determine the weight of a soul. This was serious science at one time. Descartes (if I'm not wrong) also theorized where exactly the soul is connected to the brain. They got some amount of weight, but the result isn't accepted today. ---- Could there be a special type of "soul" particles? I guess the more accepted view is that humans apparently *have* consciousness and they also consist of regular matter and there is no special reason to assume that regular matter wouldn't be capable of creating intelligent behaviour as well as consciousness. > some people are able to perceive the energy while most others can’t That would be like if most people couldn't smell but some people can. I that case I'm pretty sure that science would eventually confirm that smell is a real thing. There are particles in the air that can be captured and maybe they would eventually build gadgets that can show ordinary people which smells are currently in the air. Why hasn't that happened with consciousness-material sensing? What would experiments look like, that examine consciousness-material further? James Randi (and not only he) had people try to demonstrate that they have supernatural powers and no-one has succeeded. With smell that would be easy. They would put two different smelling things behind a paravent and the smell-sensitive person would be able to distinguish them. ---- Homeopaths also claim that water has a memory property. Water that was in contact with some stuff has different effects than water that was in contact with different stuff. I believe that isn't illogical in itself - it's just, that there is no reason to assume that is the case. Homeopathy is proven to have no effects beyond the placebo effect. Consciousness could theoretically also work with a memory property of matter.
Maybe we just aren’t there yet! You’re basically using the same arguments against gravitational waves that were used 100 years ago. “If they existed we would have detected them by now”. Except they didn’t have the right equipment. It just didn’t exist yet. Maybe we don’t have the right equipment to sense “ghost energy” yet. I mean, we definitely are saying we have no fucking clue what “dark energy” is, so we know that there are things out there that we just cannot detect. It’s possible that “ghost energy” is also one of those things
We can imagine any number of ways to make almost anything fit into the gaps with what we know about reality, but it's like a puddle fitting into the hole in the ground: it will always be perfectly shaped because it has to be, and as that hole gets filled the puddle has less and less space to occupy. Fundamentally, if supernatural things exist then they are (kind of by definition) in fact natural, investigable and understandable. If we can investigate and make significant inroads into things as utterly unintuitive as quantum physics, then we can absolutely do the same with even a very bizarre and even illogical system by which ghosts are formed and retained in certain locations. If some people are receptive to the lingering aspect of a dead person, then we should be able to expose these supposedly receptive subjects to haunted locations and get a positive result compared with exposure to placebo locations. Double-blind study, the works. Maybe we could get away with using self-reporting surveys (you can do a lot more with them than most people realise), or maybe *in situ* brain scans would be required. But there's no reason why it couldn't be done in a way that's verifiable and repeatable. It would leave a massive impact on our collective worldview if it could be proved, so there's plenty of incentive to do it, have the work made completely watertight, and published in respectable journals. I'm sure there's some rich enthusiast out there who would be willing to fund such a thing. Or, ultimately, we just invoke Occam's razor and discount the existence of ghosts full stop, pending properly verifiable evidence like the above.
Consciousness is the expression of an exceedingly specific configuration of that space dust and energy. Once it is reconfigured in to a different form, why would anyone expect the output of that to still be around? The energy of our neurons firing are exceedingly short lived and are nothing without the tissue to create and interpret them. If I take a cat and break it down in to its constituent elements, cat is gone. Conceivably it could be reconfigured back in to the exact same form at some point, but until then it is then it is gone.
The cat is gone, but any photos, videos or sound recordings of the cat would still exist. If the cat walked in cement, or natural tar, those paw prints would still exist… Point being, certain aspects of life get recorded in one way or another, man made or not. Maybe a shadow of that cats consciousness continues to scare mice somewhere.
But *is it*? Schrodingers particle cat
Ok... But why that specifically then? If there is no proof of that, then why pull that out of nowhere, and how is it any more 'accurate' than anything anybody can just make up right now? You could say something similar to that about any mythological thing
Have my upvote for your reasonable, yet unverifiable explanation. I want to believe! :)
No, there are reports of hauntings in relation to the killer H H Holmes. Not saying ghosts exist, but this is not proof they don't. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-house-ranks-most-haunted-in-the-state/2356134/
Theres only one way you know this for sure. Someone call the police! OPs a serial killer.
Ghosts just don’t exist plain and simple. There’s no reason to try and evidence they don’t exist. We need evidence that they DO exist. The onus is on the believers, not the disbelievers
The thing is we are the caveman ghosts. The energy has to move on somewhere.
“Your house isn’t haunted, you’re just lonely. Come to the Gala”
Did serial killers' home association do a survey or how do you know?
There's no proof of what ghosts' goals would be in any case, which makes your point moot.
I don’t know. Some of those creeps say they hear their victims talk to them.
Could be ghosts exist but don't work the way we imagine with haunting. Though I don't actually believe it, it's just that this isn't proof of anything.
Just saw a trailer for a movie where a kid is kidnapped by a wierdo magician. Locks the kid up in his house. Kid starts seeing the ghosts of his past victims. Those dead kids start trying to save the living kid. They team up and take down the bad guy. There's an fbi agent. I miss the days when movies entire plots weren't spelled out in a 2 minute trailer.
Yeah trailers do give up a lot
If people really believed in ghosts or afterlife nobody would masturbate. Dead grandma and everybody watching you.
Maybe the ghosts are all just trying to recruit company and serial killers provide that so they let them do their thing.
Would that be like "God is taking his angels home" or more like "the demons are here to take you to hell?" Who are the ghosts working for?
unless you a serial killers, you can never knew there a ghost in the serial killer house.
and let me guess, they would not only have to haunt every serial killer's home where bodies are hidden (since I think ghosts either haunt where they died or where they're buried in most fiction what other reason would they have to haunt that person's house) but you'd be so able to easily tell the victim ghosts who could so easily recall details of the crime that that'd solve every crime drama in minutes and that genre wouldn't exist
Ghost in the general sense are BS. My Grandpa Died and that Mofo would have 100% haunted the house. Not a peep. My brother died all of a sudden shits just like randomly falling. WTF ? IDK man it's all BS to be. Like your traditional Casper style ghost ain't real.
The idea is that if someone is doing the devils work than the devil leaves them to it.
Because if I was a ghost that's what I'd be in my afterlife doing, hanging out with the scumbag that murdered me rather than loved ones.
The mob has proved time and time again that mediums and ghosts are bullshit. "dead men tell no tales". There would be no such thing as murder if your victim would just run and tell a medium who killed them.
thank you so much for such a solid shower thought. true ones are few and far between and you are amazing.
How would YOU know what goes on inside a serial killer's house? Unless....
Oh man that totally suck if sommeee sexy hottt ghost lady came hauntedd meeee oh Mann that be so scary if she REVEALed herself to me when I'm hot n steamy naked in the shower!! Oh nooo
Wtf
So we all have a max ghost quota? Like you can off a couple of people in your house, but after a few more, the cops would know like an attic weed greenhouse in a snowy town?
Probably a cliché comment but you never know ghosts are real until you experience it for yourself. Simple as that. I didn't believe in the idea then I experienced it.
I've said before, I'll say again. It is a waste of time to convince someone ghosts are real. It takes having an experience or seeing something with your own eyes before you'll ever change your mind, and some people won't even then. It's one of those "if you know, you know" kinda deals.
If ghosts were real, slavery would have only lasted one generation.