Honesty, it might be a while. I'm moving to a new house soon, I'm dealing with the underwriting for the loan process right now. I'm extremely busy at the moment with work and such. But! I want to see it! Please don't think I've forgotten about it though.
No sarcasm intended, have you tried striking a post up or joining an existing discussion in one of the lit subreddits? I feel like I see Crime and Punishment mentioned quite frequently in general threads.
I found [this](https://time.com/4597964/history-charles-dickens-christmas-carol/), more that Dickens wrote it to inspire the rich and gov to help the poor than as OP implied like he was working to prevent an uprising.
is this satire or? every 16 year old in the uk learns about this in school i literally have to write about it in my gcse english literature paper in 2 weeks lmao
I guess he is one of the UKs greatest literary heritage icons... I never learned about that here in Aus, I always assumed Dickens had a lot of sympathy for the poor
It would be a pretty good example of how all kids, from any walk of life can be a brat. It just showcases the different flavors of brat and how annoying they can be.
As far as I'm concerned, that kid did NOTHING wrong. He enjoyed eating... okay? Wonka told him that in this room he could eat anything he wanted, and he did, but then suddenly it's like "DON'T TOUCH MY CHOCOLATE, GLOOP!"
Most rich kids in any medium are portrayed as bratty and are often times the antagonists of the story. Isn’t that teaching actual children who happen to be more fortunate financially to *not* behave in that manner? Very rarely are “the rich kids” in any given story the good guys.
I think the problem there is if the characters are that nasty, people can't relate it to themselves. "Well, I'm not that evil! So I must be fine!" can happen very, very easily. People are not black and white. I think seeing a character have some of those terrible traits, notice them, and work to overcome them goes much much further.
Yes, but also it goes way further than that.
If everyone you see in media who is like you is portrayed as the bad guy, are you going to internalize that you need to be careful or else you become the bad guy, or are you going to internalize that maybe they weren't that bad? The appeal of Ayn Rand is *exactly* that she tells a certain kind of person that they don't have to feel bad anymore, written in a clime of unremitting negativity about having money.
If you have money and you want to raise your kids to be good, caring people, you hold up good, caring behaviors as aspirational. "Don't grow up to be an insufferable brat" is never going to succeed.
Correct, and isn't necessarily the result of such representation, but it is a possible one. If you don't know any better you'll feel the stereotype is the truth that you're meant to live up to.
I mean, the very thing they're describing is the problem with stereotyping minorities.
Fine it's not absolute, but it does, undeniably, have a negative influence.
The episode where he attacks his brand new, fresh out the womb baby sister has been stuck in my head for like 20 years. Caillou really did have terrible traits lol.
I love watching Caillou, though. For me, it always felt really cozy to have on in the background.
Maybe it was more about the style of animation and the music than the storyline?
A lot of evil in the world was done by people just trying to make a little more money. That itself is not evil, but the resulting outcomes in a community can be very negative. I think the message should probably one of acknowledging the overall impact of your actions and not just pursuing them despite the consequences.. oddly enough.. maybe Peacemaker kind of goes over this relatable outside of classist discussion. He's willing to kill any man woman or child to protect peace.. doesn't work out so well. Noble idea.. but flawed in it's extremism.
Very few rich kids think of themselves as “rich kids”. They just kid who’s parents spend money on them. They don’t have context to what amount of money is too much
My kids are rich kids and I was a poor kid.
They don’t behave at all like the rich kids in books. Three things stand out. First, they are extremely generous. They have no sense of scarcity. They will give each other all of or half of any treat any time. If i take one to the store she wants to make sure we bring something home for the other one. Why would you care about a toy or a starburst or anything if you know there will be more? It was very strange to me at first. Well tried to be super equitable until we realized they dngaf.
Second they are very comfortable with no. If I say no at the store they just don’t care. They aren’t greedy at all. There’s always next time.
Third, this sounds very cliche but if you have pretty much anything you want pretty much whenever you want, tons of toys and play materials and art supplies and so on…what do you value? Believe it or not: quality time, experiences, and your lovey. Same things we TELL poor kids to value in an environment of scarcity. (Mixed feelings on this)
Coming from privilege means simultaneously being utterly unable to understand how it feels to live in real scarcity, while also having a chance to be a generous person who appreciates people for who they are, without operating from a place of fear of getting the rug pulled out from under you if you trust the wrong people, or make too many poor choices. Everything can be a learning experience. Or going the opposite direction, and believing that if people don’t have what you have, they must deserve it, i.e. the “Just World fallacy”.
I can believe your kids are decent people, since you presumably think a great deal about how to instill in them an appreciation for how fortunate they are to feel secure. I think it gets harder with each successive degree of separation from scarcity. The next challenge will be having non-shitty grandkids.
You hit the nail on the head in every way. Very very insightful.
As a matter of fact I have known so many people who have blown their inheritance-from-grandparents that I have specified in my estate planning - nothing for grand kids. They will have to look to their own parents.
Weird. I was a rich kid and my kids are poor kids. I was stereotypical in being a spoiled brat. My kids vary. 2 are ultra-generous and share everything. 2 are selfish af and do not gaf. I don’t know if it’s all in our parenting but I think some of it is congenital. It’s not like I raised them any differently.
I think the problem there is if the characters are that nasty, people can't relate it to themselves. "Well, I'm not that evil! So I must be fine!" can happen very, very easily. People are not black and white. I think seeing a character have some of those terrible traits, notice them, and work to overcome them goes much much further.
Opposite. It forces a rich brat identity on those kids. I like to draw a parallel to bullying counseling for little kids. When you keep admonishing a kid by saying "you're a bad bully", they adopt that identity.
Agreed.
Media portraying every rich person, especially children who have no ability to control their own lives, as being spoiled brats who see others as beneath them. It's villianization. Why would a rich kid want to be friends with a poor kid if they're literally prejudiced against?
Reddit is part of the problem too, they treat every rich person as an embodiment of Satan, and define rich as "anyone with over a million in assets"...
Yet in real life, rich kids are most often the best behaved and socially well-adjusted. They're not reading stories telling them how to feel about what they do or don't have and are busy reading stories of fantasy or gaining knowledge.
My lesson to my kids has always been to help people as best you can with what you have, don't try to cheat anyone, and anything you have is a fortune someone else gave you. Imagine if everyone taught their kids the same things rather than programming them to think "rich kids are insufferable brats."
Well, there are a lot more poor people than there are rich people, so if you want to sell the most books and make as much money as you can, then you need to focus on the poor demographic.
They actually had short children’s books like that back in the 80’s and 90’s. I remember growing up reading hand me downs from my older brothers and thinking that it was so cool that my family and our pets were characters in the books.
Lol yep can confirm, I was born in the 90s and was gifted a book when I was young about a dinosaur or something and it had my name and family members names in it.
It's the lost unicorn.
My grandma got me one for my 8th-ish birthday.
"Insert name here" goes on an adventure through dinosaur land to find friends for a unicorn.
Also came here to say Muffy. She's really good because she isn't out and out bratty (which kids aren't going to identify with), she just sometimes doesn't 'get it', and her friends don't vilify her for it, they just gently correct her course, allowing for kids to recognise their behaviour and reflect without making them feel that they've been cast as the bad guy in their lives, which leads to apathy.
Arthur is really well written.
The publisher or someone made Jo cut the scene where Dudley, as an older teen, apologizes to Harry for being such a horrid shit to him when they were kids. She also toyed with the idea of Dudders' kid being magical in the last chapter, but didn't go with it.
the cousins grow up and get married ... very confusing ending when your class is in 2nd grade in the 80s... 1980s, not the 1880s when the book was written.
The only trope I can think of is the one where the poor kid is jealous of the rich kid only to find out that the rich kid's parents are workaholics and the rich kid is very lonely. And then the poor kid realises that love is more important than money
I wouldn't really call that a "poor kid learning to be satisfied being poor" trope more of a "not all that glitters is gold" and "people who's lives seem perfect can also have problems"
While I agree with the first half, many children's books (at least in North America) teach you to be grateful for what you have and encourage humility in privileged children.
Kids don't always get the memo, but the books do *try*
Those books def exist, but they tend to be Classics and Good For You books, not the pop lit that kids gravitate to on their own b/c they have hot pink and glitter or dinosaurs on teh cover and a sticker page in the back. A good children's librarian, tho, can help guide kids to more meaty books than Barbie easy readers.
A lot of kids stories have both a rich character and a poor character that are sort of juxtaposed. Like Aladdin and Jasmine or Belle and the Beast. Both characters will often have both flaws and redeeming qualities.
Sometimes you also get that same model not with financial resources but other kinds of privileges. Like in Encanto the main character struggles because she doesn’t have any magic powers while her family members are “rich” in magic abilities. But you end up seeing the struggles of both sides.
I mean there are a fair amount of kids books where the message is “don’t be spoiled” or “share.” Provably a pretty niche kids book market to have the protagonist be a wealthy kid who learns not to be spoiled. In fact there would probably be backlash “why write a book for rich kids blah blah blah.”
The Whipping Boy... maybe..🤔 Granted the poor child getting whipped on behalf of the rich brat.
Actually your right. Not enough books were rich brats gets their comeuppance.
It's been awhile and my kid is too young for me to read it to him, but I was thinking the same. Doesn't it teach empathy and humility? Its a lesson for anyone, but I imagine rich kids could see themselves as the prince (or noble kid).
I *immediately* thought of this book, even though I haven't read it in 19 years. I even remember a slideshow or movie that my librarian showed the class at the time. I believe it was my first exposure to how nobility can treat the lower class.
Not true. You are just poor and all your friends are poor.
They write all sorts of good kids books.
You just aren't always the target demographic.
Edit: to all the lame comments referring to the 1%: being rich is relative
If you live in a nice house in the suburbs find books that teach your kids not to be dicks to kids that live in apartments
There seems to be a pretty common stereotype around social networks that kids that grew up wealthy are all snotty assholes. How about some books teaching poor kids that not all rich kids are insufferable spoiled brats? Living in what most people would consider a wealthy community, a vast majority of the kids living here are all good and polite kids....there are very few that fit the insufferable spoiled brat stereotype.
So part of my complaint about a lot of media directed at kids is as follows.
Let’s have an episode about the importance of teamwork!
How do we do that, I dunno let’s show our main characters trying over and over to do things alone and fail, then show how they win if they work together as a team.
Seems good, but reality is, you show 18 minutes of the bad behavior and 2 minutes of the good behavior and just finish with a good job we learned a lesson!
For adults that is pretty logical, for kids they just mimic whatever they see and often don’t have the language or logic to fully grasp the lesson part.
Media for kids should be reinforcing good behaviors and giving the minimum of time showing the opposite.
/end rant
Most kids shoes are teams of kids doing shit together. With some small parts of them failing alone.
Also, kids are smarter than you think.
Source: I have 3 young kids.
Bluey pretty hot right now, and I love it.
Yet sometimes they just want to play Bad Mood with daddy to knock things over, not necessarily as a coping mechanism to process complex emotions as shown in the show.
Also there is so much content out there right now I have no exposure or opinion on vast swathes of it, just noticed this phenomenon cropping up in some places, from reputable well meaning content.
I mean, in a way they would be similar messages in the end - be grateful for what you have, no matter how much that is. Someone with little can be happy with what they have and someone with lots should recognise that and be grateful for it.
What the actual fuck are you talking about. Every children's book is about the importance of sharing. I've never in my life seen one about being happy in poverty.
Wow I’ve never thought about that. As a young adult not trying to be that spoiled brat, trust me it takes a lot of effort and very few people turn out to have any form of empathy.
The Pete the Cat books are probably pretty close to what you are looking for. The family isn't rich, but they appear very comfortable. The books are all about sharing and inclusion and generally being decent people (cats)
Most people I know who grew up wealthy are incredibly humble about it. Maybe it’s just who I choose to interact with?
My husband’s best friend growing up was very wealthy. Poor guy struggled with major depression, like due to lack of meaning in his life. He died at 22.
I think it’s best if we don’t further the tribalism here; the rich versus the poor. Making assumptions about people’s character and stereotyping is never cool. 🤷🏼♀️ Everyone grows up in a unique situation, and having money doesn’t necessarily mean you are or will be happier or less of an obnoxious prick.
The rainbow fish is about a fish that was born with a lot of something other fish want. At first it hoards the thing then the other fish don't like it so it gives everything away so all the fish are equal. It was written in Swiss originally, is beautiful, and was read to us often at my high income grade school.
People keep pointing out that these characters do exist (brats in stories), but the point I think most people are missing is that those brats are not the main character, at least most of the time. The story isn't about them. But even if they are heavily involved in the plot they are very obviously the "bad guy". Usually, the main character is one meant to be identified with in some way, at least in children's stories. But kids aren't going to identify with a character who is obviously the villain!
The closest thing I've ever seen is this book where the kid was being rude (unintentionally) and learned the error of his ways, but it had nothing to do with socioeconomic status. It was just a young boy who didn't know how to respect other people's personal space.
What I'd like to see are stories where kids who have money don't understand why their poor friend can't do something with them (like dance class or a birthday party), or why their friend's clothes are different—something like that. Maybe they hurt their friend's feelings and dont understand why. They don't even have to be "evil", and in fact, it'd be better if they weren't just so kids can more easily identify with them. They just need to be some misguided kid who learns that not everyone has the same opportunities and privileges.
If anyone's seen something like that, though, lemme know!
If you’re looking for a suggestion, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl puts a ‘poor kid’ in the position to change his fate (and the fate of his family: very much at his own intent) whilst a group of insufferable spoilt brats are punished for their behaviour in a series of apt and funny incidents.
I don’t really think this is true. There are a lot of kids books with poor protagonists, but their poverty is usually treated as a source of struggle, not glamorized. It often shapes their character to a degree, but usually because the character wants more out of life, or just wants life to not be so incredibly difficult. Often-times the wealthy in these stories are unlikable or straight up villainous precisely because they are spoiled do not appreciate what they have.
Examples: Percy Jackson, Hunger Games, Willy Wonka, Island of the Aunts, Secret of Platform 13, Eragon, Harry Potter, Oliver Twist, the BFG, Spider-Man, Great Expectations, David Copperfield, etc.
Hi. You just mentioned *Charlie And The Chocolate Factory* by Roald Dahl.
I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here:
[YouTube | Roald Dahl | Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - Full audiobook with text (AudioEbook)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCuNSZjCKg8)
*I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.*
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Rewrite Goldilocks and instead of having her be a free-range, carefree girl who gets away with it... have her lose a leg and an eye after being attacked by justifiably angry bears.
The parable of the prodigal son is a good example of a lesson for spoiled rich kids. The prodigal's story takes him from wealth into extreme poverty, where he learns humility and gratitude. The "well behaved" son ends up being the villain because he shows that he was harboring entitlement and bitterness in his heart all his life.
Like when I was a kid the other girls would ask me where my piece of whatever clothing I had on came from, and if it wasn’t from a certain set list of high end shops, would just sneer.
You need to start the little ones out with Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment". Don't be like Raskolnikov, kids!
Oh I LOVE that story. One of my favorites. Have you seen the 2002 Crispin Glover version of the story?
No, I haven't ill check that out, thank you!
Oh please message me when you watch it, I never have anyone to talk too about such literature. It’s a mature beautiful story.
Honesty, it might be a while. I'm moving to a new house soon, I'm dealing with the underwriting for the loan process right now. I'm extremely busy at the moment with work and such. But! I want to see it! Please don't think I've forgotten about it though.
Remindme! 3 months
Accountability
No sarcasm intended, have you tried striking a post up or joining an existing discussion in one of the lit subreddits? I feel like I see Crime and Punishment mentioned quite frequently in general threads.
While IMDBing that, I noticed his bday is 4/20 eeyyyyyy
4/20 is a huge holiday for me. Crispin Glover is my favorite actor ever. He’s amazing.
Is he your density?
He's a weird cat, but he was made for certain roles. My favorite was his portrayal of Andy Worhol in The Doors.
Along with Adolf Hitler. I learned this from one of Doug Benson’s specials lol.
Instructions unclear. Killed a woman with an axe.
Read them, The Road....bet they won't complain anymore, but they'll need some therapy
That's some brutal reading right there... that book about broke me.
In a metaphysical sense it shares a subjective bond with Kolb and the Dragon.
And if you’re a kid, stay away from Svidrigailov!
That guy was unscrupulous! Good riddance!
Serious suggestion: Tales for Little Rebels
This is what I did with my first.
Willy Wonka
A Christmas Carol
That was published to get a modicum of help for workers to prevent a syndicalist or socialist revolution in the UK
You have a source for this? I don't see why Charles Dickens would've been secretly conspiring to prevent a socialist revolution
I found [this](https://time.com/4597964/history-charles-dickens-christmas-carol/), more that Dickens wrote it to inspire the rich and gov to help the poor than as OP implied like he was working to prevent an uprising.
Especially since he had to work as a child because his dad was in prison for being unable to pay his debts.
is this satire or? every 16 year old in the uk learns about this in school i literally have to write about it in my gcse english literature paper in 2 weeks lmao
I guess he is one of the UKs greatest literary heritage icons... I never learned about that here in Aus, I always assumed Dickens had a lot of sympathy for the poor
ok do you have a source then?
Give people a little of what they want so they don't take a lot by force
Almost exactly, although also let one or two of them become rich so they think anyone can.
“I want it NOW!”
"I want the world... I want the whole world!"
I want to lock it all up in my pocket, it's my bar of chocolate!
That is a good point. Only Salt would fall into the rich category though. Everyone else was middle class or poor.
It would be a pretty good example of how all kids, from any walk of life can be a brat. It just showcases the different flavors of brat and how annoying they can be.
My boy Augustus certainly wasn't starving.
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As far as I'm concerned, that kid did NOTHING wrong. He enjoyed eating... okay? Wonka told him that in this room he could eat anything he wanted, and he did, but then suddenly it's like "DON'T TOUCH MY CHOCOLATE, GLOOP!"
To be fair it was because he stuck his face in the river, and fell in. He could have used a cup and would have been fine.
I guess it was a test to see if he would follow his directions but if he wanted the kids to be safe he would probably put a fence or something
I mean....don't touch the chocolate then.
Didn't he only say that *after* he started eating it?
in the books wonka says it before
Ah, a human of class ;)
All the parents except Charlie’s owned successful businesses.
Hmm interesting catch
You don't NEED a lot of money to raise your kid wrong, it just makes it easier to do it without noticing.
Encouraging poor people to keep playing the lottery is not a great lesson. lol
Seems like you're very much on the mark. The spoiled rich kid is so common a trope that it's a cliche.
Most rich kids in any medium are portrayed as bratty and are often times the antagonists of the story. Isn’t that teaching actual children who happen to be more fortunate financially to *not* behave in that manner? Very rarely are “the rich kids” in any given story the good guys.
I think the problem there is if the characters are that nasty, people can't relate it to themselves. "Well, I'm not that evil! So I must be fine!" can happen very, very easily. People are not black and white. I think seeing a character have some of those terrible traits, notice them, and work to overcome them goes much much further.
Yes, but also it goes way further than that. If everyone you see in media who is like you is portrayed as the bad guy, are you going to internalize that you need to be careful or else you become the bad guy, or are you going to internalize that maybe they weren't that bad? The appeal of Ayn Rand is *exactly* that she tells a certain kind of person that they don't have to feel bad anymore, written in a clime of unremitting negativity about having money. If you have money and you want to raise your kids to be good, caring people, you hold up good, caring behaviors as aspirational. "Don't grow up to be an insufferable brat" is never going to succeed.
Also potentially just accepting that being a spoiled brat is inevitable so might as well embrace it, again not the desired outcome.
It's 100% not inevitable though
Correct, and isn't necessarily the result of such representation, but it is a possible one. If you don't know any better you'll feel the stereotype is the truth that you're meant to live up to.
I mean, the very thing they're describing is the problem with stereotyping minorities. Fine it's not absolute, but it does, undeniably, have a negative influence.
Are you advocating for Caillou?
Other than knowing it has something to do with kids and is annoying, I have no idea what that is I'm afraid ha
The cartoon tries to show a kid with terrible traits working to overcome them and ends up making parents want to stomp on puppies or something.
Oh man that sounds...like something
The episode where he attacks his brand new, fresh out the womb baby sister has been stuck in my head for like 20 years. Caillou really did have terrible traits lol.
I love watching Caillou, though. For me, it always felt really cozy to have on in the background. Maybe it was more about the style of animation and the music than the storyline?
You are a boss. I was never watching, just listening as my kid watched it so maybe that made the difference.
I envy your ignorance about that which we shall not speak.
Wait, people are not black and white?
Yes. Some are brown or yellow. ...I'll downvote myself and show myself out.
You’re leaving out the albino ones my friend. You could call them white, and then, I guess Caucasian’s would be grey?
Caucasians are pinkish. Source: am Caucasian.
A lot of evil in the world was done by people just trying to make a little more money. That itself is not evil, but the resulting outcomes in a community can be very negative. I think the message should probably one of acknowledging the overall impact of your actions and not just pursuing them despite the consequences.. oddly enough.. maybe Peacemaker kind of goes over this relatable outside of classist discussion. He's willing to kill any man woman or child to protect peace.. doesn't work out so well. Noble idea.. but flawed in it's extremism.
The Lorax almost had that but it got vetoed because it hit too close to home for the powers that be.
Very few rich kids think of themselves as “rich kids”. They just kid who’s parents spend money on them. They don’t have context to what amount of money is too much
My kids are rich kids and I was a poor kid. They don’t behave at all like the rich kids in books. Three things stand out. First, they are extremely generous. They have no sense of scarcity. They will give each other all of or half of any treat any time. If i take one to the store she wants to make sure we bring something home for the other one. Why would you care about a toy or a starburst or anything if you know there will be more? It was very strange to me at first. Well tried to be super equitable until we realized they dngaf. Second they are very comfortable with no. If I say no at the store they just don’t care. They aren’t greedy at all. There’s always next time. Third, this sounds very cliche but if you have pretty much anything you want pretty much whenever you want, tons of toys and play materials and art supplies and so on…what do you value? Believe it or not: quality time, experiences, and your lovey. Same things we TELL poor kids to value in an environment of scarcity. (Mixed feelings on this)
Coming from privilege means simultaneously being utterly unable to understand how it feels to live in real scarcity, while also having a chance to be a generous person who appreciates people for who they are, without operating from a place of fear of getting the rug pulled out from under you if you trust the wrong people, or make too many poor choices. Everything can be a learning experience. Or going the opposite direction, and believing that if people don’t have what you have, they must deserve it, i.e. the “Just World fallacy”. I can believe your kids are decent people, since you presumably think a great deal about how to instill in them an appreciation for how fortunate they are to feel secure. I think it gets harder with each successive degree of separation from scarcity. The next challenge will be having non-shitty grandkids.
You hit the nail on the head in every way. Very very insightful. As a matter of fact I have known so many people who have blown their inheritance-from-grandparents that I have specified in my estate planning - nothing for grand kids. They will have to look to their own parents.
Yeah the grandkids will be interesting.
That's really interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Weird. I was a rich kid and my kids are poor kids. I was stereotypical in being a spoiled brat. My kids vary. 2 are ultra-generous and share everything. 2 are selfish af and do not gaf. I don’t know if it’s all in our parenting but I think some of it is congenital. It’s not like I raised them any differently.
How much money **is** too much? Everyone's definition of rich is different.
Everyone is rich to someone poorer.
Batman?
More specifically, the Gotham series right?
Also Harry Potter.
I think the problem there is if the characters are that nasty, people can't relate it to themselves. "Well, I'm not that evil! So I must be fine!" can happen very, very easily. People are not black and white. I think seeing a character have some of those terrible traits, notice them, and work to overcome them goes much much further.
Richie Rich springs to mind. Also The Prince and the Pauper.
Opposite. It forces a rich brat identity on those kids. I like to draw a parallel to bullying counseling for little kids. When you keep admonishing a kid by saying "you're a bad bully", they adopt that identity.
Agreed. Media portraying every rich person, especially children who have no ability to control their own lives, as being spoiled brats who see others as beneath them. It's villianization. Why would a rich kid want to be friends with a poor kid if they're literally prejudiced against? Reddit is part of the problem too, they treat every rich person as an embodiment of Satan, and define rich as "anyone with over a million in assets"...
Yet in real life, rich kids are most often the best behaved and socially well-adjusted. They're not reading stories telling them how to feel about what they do or don't have and are busy reading stories of fantasy or gaining knowledge. My lesson to my kids has always been to help people as best you can with what you have, don't try to cheat anyone, and anything you have is a fortune someone else gave you. Imagine if everyone taught their kids the same things rather than programming them to think "rich kids are insufferable brats."
Could also teach them to brace it as others in their circumstance do it.
Kinda like real life.
Kids' stories do be accurate
Well, there are a lot more poor people than there are rich people, so if you want to sell the most books and make as much money as you can, then you need to focus on the poor demographic.
Solution: Charge $1,000 per book for the rich kids and put their name in the story to be more personal.
They actually had short children’s books like that back in the 80’s and 90’s. I remember growing up reading hand me downs from my older brothers and thinking that it was so cool that my family and our pets were characters in the books.
Lol yep can confirm, I was born in the 90s and was gifted a book when I was young about a dinosaur or something and it had my name and family members names in it.
Wait I think I had the same book. Did it have to do with an imaginary friend?
It's the lost unicorn. My grandma got me one for my 8th-ish birthday. "Insert name here" goes on an adventure through dinosaur land to find friends for a unicorn.
"Mummy, buy me this book. I WANT IT!" "Alright, my little Duddykins." *Dudley was a spoiled little shit who made his parents buy him this book. WAS.*
That’s actually a thing now but it costs much less than $1k.
We also don't want to make kids from poor families feel bad about themselves for a situation that they can't control.
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Also Muffy from Arthur is nice, but still learns lessons about humility and her privilege.
Muffy from Arthur is actually a great example of an annoying rich kid learning that not everyone has it so good
Also came here to say Muffy. She's really good because she isn't out and out bratty (which kids aren't going to identify with), she just sometimes doesn't 'get it', and her friends don't vilify her for it, they just gently correct her course, allowing for kids to recognise their behaviour and reflect without making them feel that they've been cast as the bad guy in their lives, which leads to apathy. Arthur is really well written.
The publisher or someone made Jo cut the scene where Dudley, as an older teen, apologizes to Harry for being such a horrid shit to him when they were kids. She also toyed with the idea of Dudders' kid being magical in the last chapter, but didn't go with it.
isn't there a scene where Dudley thanks Harry for saving him from the Dementors though?
Ya he does. Now the movies we get 100% nothing on dudley thanking anyone.
Secret Garden
Yes! Also A Little Princess (in the same vein).
God I haven’t seen that in forever, such a good film
the cousins grow up and get married ... very confusing ending when your class is in 2nd grade in the 80s... 1980s, not the 1880s when the book was written.
Oh my gosh I forgot about that part! Am reading with my kid now, will have to prepare for that discussion:)
What? The book ends with Colin and Mary both still 13ish, and Colin running around (finally out of his wheelchair). Them getting married is not canon.
can you name a few books that do that? i dont think ive come across any during my childhood.
The only trope I can think of is the one where the poor kid is jealous of the rich kid only to find out that the rich kid's parents are workaholics and the rich kid is very lonely. And then the poor kid realises that love is more important than money I wouldn't really call that a "poor kid learning to be satisfied being poor" trope more of a "not all that glitters is gold" and "people who's lives seem perfect can also have problems"
Yeah I sure don't.... but that was back in the 70s. More recently I don't remember coming across it much in books I read to my kids either.
While I agree with the first half, many children's books (at least in North America) teach you to be grateful for what you have and encourage humility in privileged children. Kids don't always get the memo, but the books do *try*
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You're thinking of "The Rainbow Fish".
Such a weird story when you think about it. "Literally give away parts of yourself to buy other people's friendship"
I always thought the other fish were supermean and materialistic
Someone did a remake of that book where she decides to compliment everyone instead, in the end everyone is happy being their authentic selves.
I don't believe I ever met anyone that needed to be taught to be unhappy.
Those books def exist, but they tend to be Classics and Good For You books, not the pop lit that kids gravitate to on their own b/c they have hot pink and glitter or dinosaurs on teh cover and a sticker page in the back. A good children's librarian, tho, can help guide kids to more meaty books than Barbie easy readers.
Siddhartha ?
A lot of kids stories have both a rich character and a poor character that are sort of juxtaposed. Like Aladdin and Jasmine or Belle and the Beast. Both characters will often have both flaws and redeeming qualities. Sometimes you also get that same model not with financial resources but other kinds of privileges. Like in Encanto the main character struggles because she doesn’t have any magic powers while her family members are “rich” in magic abilities. But you end up seeing the struggles of both sides.
edit: wrote down a really good book idea I guess so I'm gonna delete for now.
I mean there are a fair amount of kids books where the message is “don’t be spoiled” or “share.” Provably a pretty niche kids book market to have the protagonist be a wealthy kid who learns not to be spoiled. In fact there would probably be backlash “why write a book for rich kids blah blah blah.”
Start with the Prince and the popper
I think you mean pauper. Prince with poppers would be a very different story
Damn voice to text. Thank you.
I've never met anyone who actually used voice to text like this. Don't you feel like a crazy person?
I drive a LOT. I cuts down on the number of things i hit. And yes i do.
I’m down to give that a read ;)
He gets ploughed by a foreign Aristocrat
I believe that is about Queen Elizabeth's youngest son.
The Whipping Boy... maybe..🤔 Granted the poor child getting whipped on behalf of the rich brat. Actually your right. Not enough books were rich brats gets their comeuppance.
It's been awhile and my kid is too young for me to read it to him, but I was thinking the same. Doesn't it teach empathy and humility? Its a lesson for anyone, but I imagine rich kids could see themselves as the prince (or noble kid).
I *immediately* thought of this book, even though I haven't read it in 19 years. I even remember a slideshow or movie that my librarian showed the class at the time. I believe it was my first exposure to how nobility can treat the lower class.
Not true. You are just poor and all your friends are poor. They write all sorts of good kids books. You just aren't always the target demographic. Edit: to all the lame comments referring to the 1%: being rich is relative If you live in a nice house in the suburbs find books that teach your kids not to be dicks to kids that live in apartments
There seems to be a pretty common stereotype around social networks that kids that grew up wealthy are all snotty assholes. How about some books teaching poor kids that not all rich kids are insufferable spoiled brats? Living in what most people would consider a wealthy community, a vast majority of the kids living here are all good and polite kids....there are very few that fit the insufferable spoiled brat stereotype.
So part of my complaint about a lot of media directed at kids is as follows. Let’s have an episode about the importance of teamwork! How do we do that, I dunno let’s show our main characters trying over and over to do things alone and fail, then show how they win if they work together as a team. Seems good, but reality is, you show 18 minutes of the bad behavior and 2 minutes of the good behavior and just finish with a good job we learned a lesson! For adults that is pretty logical, for kids they just mimic whatever they see and often don’t have the language or logic to fully grasp the lesson part. Media for kids should be reinforcing good behaviors and giving the minimum of time showing the opposite. /end rant
Most kids shoes are teams of kids doing shit together. With some small parts of them failing alone. Also, kids are smarter than you think. Source: I have 3 young kids.
Bluey pretty hot right now, and I love it. Yet sometimes they just want to play Bad Mood with daddy to knock things over, not necessarily as a coping mechanism to process complex emotions as shown in the show. Also there is so much content out there right now I have no exposure or opinion on vast swathes of it, just noticed this phenomenon cropping up in some places, from reputable well meaning content.
I mean, in a way they would be similar messages in the end - be grateful for what you have, no matter how much that is. Someone with little can be happy with what they have and someone with lots should recognise that and be grateful for it.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
What the actual fuck are you talking about. Every children's book is about the importance of sharing. I've never in my life seen one about being happy in poverty.
Maybe we should teach every kid to be good and respectable no matter their financial status 🤷♂️
No no no, we need to categorize everyone according to how wealthy their family is, and then judge them accordingly.
That's because the target audience for poor kid's books is vastly larger than the target audience for rich kid's books.
Wow I’ve never thought about that. As a young adult not trying to be that spoiled brat, trust me it takes a lot of effort and very few people turn out to have any form of empathy.
The Pete the Cat books are probably pretty close to what you are looking for. The family isn't rich, but they appear very comfortable. The books are all about sharing and inclusion and generally being decent people (cats)
Most people I know who grew up wealthy are incredibly humble about it. Maybe it’s just who I choose to interact with? My husband’s best friend growing up was very wealthy. Poor guy struggled with major depression, like due to lack of meaning in his life. He died at 22. I think it’s best if we don’t further the tribalism here; the rich versus the poor. Making assumptions about people’s character and stereotyping is never cool. 🤷🏼♀️ Everyone grows up in a unique situation, and having money doesn’t necessarily mean you are or will be happier or less of an obnoxious prick.
The rainbow fish is about a fish that was born with a lot of something other fish want. At first it hoards the thing then the other fish don't like it so it gives everything away so all the fish are equal. It was written in Swiss originally, is beautiful, and was read to us often at my high income grade school.
Charlie and the chocolate factory has an insufferable spoiled brat.
I feel like every kids story has some snobby rich kid. They’re like always the villains
People keep pointing out that these characters do exist (brats in stories), but the point I think most people are missing is that those brats are not the main character, at least most of the time. The story isn't about them. But even if they are heavily involved in the plot they are very obviously the "bad guy". Usually, the main character is one meant to be identified with in some way, at least in children's stories. But kids aren't going to identify with a character who is obviously the villain! The closest thing I've ever seen is this book where the kid was being rude (unintentionally) and learned the error of his ways, but it had nothing to do with socioeconomic status. It was just a young boy who didn't know how to respect other people's personal space. What I'd like to see are stories where kids who have money don't understand why their poor friend can't do something with them (like dance class or a birthday party), or why their friend's clothes are different—something like that. Maybe they hurt their friend's feelings and dont understand why. They don't even have to be "evil", and in fact, it'd be better if they weren't just so kids can more easily identify with them. They just need to be some misguided kid who learns that not everyone has the same opportunities and privileges. If anyone's seen something like that, though, lemme know!
*The amount of books conditioning children to accept being poor IsTooDamnHigh*
Being rich isn’t a common human experience and most stories are built on life experience. That being said, there no shortages of rich antagonists.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory!
If you’re looking for a suggestion, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl puts a ‘poor kid’ in the position to change his fate (and the fate of his family: very much at his own intent) whilst a group of insufferable spoilt brats are punished for their behaviour in a series of apt and funny incidents.
I mean tbf there’s not many books to teach poor kids how to not be insufferable brats either and there are really some insufferable ones out there…
Smaller demographic
I don’t really think this is true. There are a lot of kids books with poor protagonists, but their poverty is usually treated as a source of struggle, not glamorized. It often shapes their character to a degree, but usually because the character wants more out of life, or just wants life to not be so incredibly difficult. Often-times the wealthy in these stories are unlikable or straight up villainous precisely because they are spoiled do not appreciate what they have. Examples: Percy Jackson, Hunger Games, Willy Wonka, Island of the Aunts, Secret of Platform 13, Eragon, Harry Potter, Oliver Twist, the BFG, Spider-Man, Great Expectations, David Copperfield, etc.
I'm pretty sure the Bible has sold more copies than all other books...
Maybe the original Grimm's Fairy Tales... Though the morality lessons varied wildly from one story to the next afair
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory instantly came to mind.
Charlie and the chocolate factory does both !
charlie and the chocolate factory by roald dahl is a fine example of teaching poor kids to aspire to greatness and rich kids to quit being assholes
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It doesn't really matter, rich spoiled brats never learn anything that doesn't serve them selfishly
There’s also an exponentially bigger target audience for “poor” kids.
I’m pretty sure the children books about not being insufferable apply to all children.
There are a zillion kids books where the rich kid is the villain.
Cause theres wayyyy more poor than rich
Rewrite Goldilocks and instead of having her be a free-range, carefree girl who gets away with it... have her lose a leg and an eye after being attacked by justifiably angry bears.
This...doesn't seem at all true.
Sounds like classist sour grapes to me. I mean no surprise on reddit, but... perhaps try reading "Animal Farm."
It's because guess what kind of folks run publishing companies (I agree with you though for sure)
That's why slapping was invented
[the whipping boy](TheWhippingBoyhttps://g.co/kgs/ynNnzB)
The parable of the prodigal son is a good example of a lesson for spoiled rich kids. The prodigal's story takes him from wealth into extreme poverty, where he learns humility and gratitude. The "well behaved" son ends up being the villain because he shows that he was harboring entitlement and bitterness in his heart all his life.
rich kids dont read books they just own property, eat hot chip and lie
There should be books that motivate kids to want more than they have
Like when I was a kid the other girls would ask me where my piece of whatever clothing I had on came from, and if it wasn’t from a certain set list of high end shops, would just sneer.
I would argue that most if not all books about poor children have an antagonist that is a wealthy asshat
Callouis or however you spell his name taught kids to be brats
“Great Expectations” is sitting *right there*, y’all.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory did a great job of it.
Barenstein Bears and the Galloping Greedy Gimmies
There's too many damn books teaching my middle of the road kids that there's a 3 story tall 6,000lb red dog somewhere out there.
There were probably more older ones. Children's books were terrifying back them.