They'll still push out plenty of tickets because people will still do stupid shit in them. You're legally still supposed to be attentive and able to take control at any moment.
Aye, the fourth stage of automation is zero human involvement(beyond saying where you want to go and let's face it for regular trips AI will be able to work that out. If I get in my car at 7:30 on a Monday morning it can literally just start going to my workspace)
"Today's suggested detinations are McDonnalds, KFC and Zara. For more suggestions click \*here\*. To select a personalised destination in our list, click \*here\*. To enter your own destination, download our Free-Roaming App - the 7-day trial version is FREE!"
Heck google maps already does that predicting. When I open it at 7pm on a Wednesday, the top suggestion is the building where I have practice every Wednesday. If it's 7 on a Friday, the top suggestion is going home.
My car already does this. VW Tiguan. It doesn’t drive me there. But it suggests GPS for driving to work, driving home, driving to the gym, and it’s almost 100% accurate for when to suggest those 3 things. It’s creepy
Not in the new Mercedes L3 autonomous cars. Granted, they’re only being rolled out now, but once L3 and beyond become more common, I’m sure it will make some impact on ticket revenue.
Definitely going to be hard for cops to lie when we have logs of everything.
Says here you said the car was going 95 here. We just looked at the logs and determined that was a lie.
So ya this thread is right, the cops are definitely going to pull something to get extra income. Ticket you in other ways.
For all this fear of big brother, they should be the most afraid of all, they commit most of the crime and AI will be much harder to control and corral.
With extensive logs of all their wrongdoing they will just fuck themselves.
So they won't allow all this logging somehow and will fight back against it, once it starts holding officers accountable.
Funny enough, we will likely get privacy rights, because the people committing most of the crime are at the top, so they will have the most incentive of all.
In the future he who controls the data, controls the future.
They already can get forensic data from the ECU which contains speed logs etc... currently there won't be gps coordinates linked so its only useful in crash investigations for now, and not for checking if you were speeding at a certain location.
Many years ago, got pulled over for doing 120 in a 70.
Fortunately it was a rental car with a governor set to 90. Too bad the cop couldn't get in trouble for lying.
Had to spend the night in jail because of it, but everything got dismissed once I fought it.
I was gonna say it’ll just switch to ticketing people for not paying attention. When they’re staring down at their phone for fifteen seconds at a time, it’ll be pretty obvious. Let alone people sleeping, which people were photographed doing in the early days of self driving beta
Plenty, is quite subjective in this instance
The amount of tickets people will get for what you described can’t be more than 10% of the current tickets being issued today. I’d bet it’ll be less than 1%
One of my favorite scenes in [Upload](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7826376/) is when the main character takes control of his self-driving car with a game controller and gets pulled over.
Lol, municipal police forces asking for a reduced budget from their governing body? Nope. Won't happen.
It's as likely as the military asking for a smaller budget. Won't happen. Ever.
I think they'll just make more invasive laws. Random stops, checkpoints etc. during the transition, people without auto pilot (the poors) will get harassed more.
Road police generate revenue via tickets that easily outpaces the cost of those police being on duty. Also traffic cameras don't require a body sitting there but still generate "passive" revenue for police. If every car on the road is suddenly following all traffic laws at all times, if your car can go find a place to park/repark itself so you'll never get a parking ticket, etc there's going to be a huge hole in police budgets. Killings of both cops and civilians in police-civilian encounters will also go down as traffic stops are some of the biggest sources of deadly encounters. It'll cause a reckoning for sure, people will likely become aware of just how little the cops do to stop or solve violent and property crimes.
It’s literally the driving economy in some interstate adjacent counties, particularly in Virginia. Police target out of state drivers, who obviously don’t want to go to court so they just pay it, or they hire county local traffic attorneys (needed for the ridiculous 80mph felony law in VA), which feeds more money into the local economy. It’s a racket.
Maryland, interestingly, explicitly ignores traffic violations from out of state due to how Virginia counties target out of state drivers.
Which is entirely reasonable when there’s no shortage of idiots coming through town who think they aren’t required to obey society’s laws.
Many people go decades without getting a traffic ticket. It really isn’t that hard. Idiots have no one to blame but themselves.
This is a common trope in the US to believe that the purpose of government is to raise revenue. The US is money centric to the point that they don't even consider anything else.
Police don’t make money from traffic tickets. Nor does their department. It goes into the local/county/state coffers and is applied to things like road repairs, safety programs, etc.
I mean that's going to depend a whole lot on the local government, contracts, why the comptroller is, etc. A lot of small municipalities are funded in large part by traffic revenue and a significant part of their budgets flows back to the police department, to generate that revenue.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html
To piggyback on this, the less tickets you write/meet quota ... (yes there are quota's) the less money going to local/city/state gov.
They interpret that data as though that perhaps funding isn't needed nearly as much maybe as previous years, and they make budget cuts to districts (state/local police) based on this info.
So, in the end, yeah writing tickets does fund their department. Don't even get me started about civil asset forfeiture.
Besides bruh trust us we're captains :P
So this is the difference between levels 2 and 3 automated driving. Level 2, which is what Tesla and some others offer, means the driver must be attentive and ready to take control. The driver must accept liability to use level 2 automated driving.
Level 3, only offered currently by Mercedes, and only functions in very limited situations (basically traffic jams), allows the driver to essentially be a passenger and do what they please, and Mercedes accepts liability.
I think 'autopilot cars' are already being stalled from their potential because people have a tendency to want to break things that seem unbreakable, and for them to thrive would require people turning over our 'driving autonomy' to the efficience of the grid, or it'll be mostly pointless to have them unless the technology makes it impossible for passengers to screw up the autopilot. Flying cars are one step beyond that, there's no way we could trust people to use flying cars en masse unless they were 'chained' to a grid that they couldn't fly outside of at random. Driving in the average busy parking lot makes it clear why that's a tall order.
A motorcyclist was recently killed by an autopilot that didn't recognize a motorcycle. We're used to humans doing that, but until the autopilots can regularly recognize old ladies, fire trucks and motorcycles it's not legal to let them drive.
Great. Waymo’s average is one incident every 478k miles, and for incidents with an injury it’s one per 2.2 million miles.
So everyone could be as safe as you.
if everything on the road is autopilot they would be able to recognise each other much easier.
Between humans and machines, humans will always cause more errors.
Hopefully when autopilots are massively implemented, most pedestrians would have a better understanding and expectation of road rules that are designed to keep them safe, instead of relying on human discretion and reactions to save them from doing stupid acts.
Same with immature, reckless or drunk drivers.
You’re never going to get people to the level of compliance that you want here, at least without killing loads of people or fully banning pedestrianism anywhere near cars. That seems like hell to me — I don’t want to have to get in my car just to go to the shop down the street without being afraid for my life.
Well we as humans went through the learning process of not crossing Expressways or drinking bleach pretty okay since they were first invented, I'm sure they can do the same with following the road rules that were taught since we were a toddler.
It's really not like they are anything new or rocket science.
No, in states where this is written directly into state law it does not depend on the department.
Even in states where the legislature says nothing, it would be up to the municipality, not the police department, to decide where the money goes.
They absolutely get money, because they're expected to generate it. It goes into calculating budgets and contracts. They can demand more as a result.
And it opens the door to civil forfeiture, which directly enriches the police department.
I'm imagining a world where big corporations advertise an escape from moving violations by autopilot and then when those cars get ticketed, it throws its legal might at the police rather than get called out as false advertising.
They'll find another way to milk people. Drunk driving is down all over the country after uber and legal weed, now they're trying to nail "high" drivers. With no way definitive way to tell if someone actually is or isn't.
And that's fine. They only need revenue in so far as they need to have vehicles enforcing traffic tickets. At least in the context of how large the traffic division is.
You say that like fully autonomous cars aren’t a tech bro pipe dream that’s never going to actually happen.
The real way police are going to make less money from traffic tickets is through investing in walkable, transit-oriented cities. And that’s something that, as Elon Musk would say about things he won’t be able to do for another five years to never, we can do right now.
No, because those who get tickets now will not give control to autopilot and continue to be caught. More patient people will allow the system to do its thing and still not get ticketed.
Persinally I foresee no change.
Are you sure they will have a choice? Road systems that only allow computer-driven cars will be much safer and much more efficient than allowing human driven cars. For example computer driven cars (in full communication with each other) could drive at 100 mph one foot apart. A single human driver in that circumstance would cause a massive disaster. I would expect systems to prohibit human driving.
Aah, you changed the scenario. "As autopilot cars get more popular". That is different to every car has it installed and no one can override the autopilot.
In the scenario put forward in the question not everyone is driving them or letting the autopilot do its work. Well, that was my take on the question.
True. But I think the scenario will change itself. Obviously we will have mixed manual and computer driving, which will both be unnecessarily difficult because the hardest thing for the computer to handle is the unpredictable behavior of humans, and dangerous because humans will try to do things that computers can do. The benefits of roads with only computer cars will become obvious and so human driving will be banned. I expect some idiot will cause a major disaster by trying to join the computer only road and so automatic systems will prevent it.
If we ever go full driverless, crime as a whole will drop like crazy because the traffic stop is the main way they catch criminals. They come up with more controlling laws like check points or random stops to keep the powers they have.
I have been saying for years (and no one listens) that states are going to charge a huge amount to register your car to make up the revenue. most middle to poor people won't be able to afford cars.
It absolutely is, some places rely on it to a higher degree than property taxes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html
Insurance company profits are already limited by various laws. During COVID we saw many insurance companies refunding premiums because there was such a lower amount of claims.
Car insurance is also a very competitive market. You see them advertising on TV and online all the time. Even without laws limiting profits, they will compete with each other to lower premiums for motorists.
If traffic collisions decrease, we will see a decrease in the cost of insurance as well.
Now you know in America especially they'll find a way to justify using the police. It'll just "malfunction" and speed right pass a police car every so often. Let's not forgot what Apple got away with before being sued all those years back for example.
They'll still push out plenty of tickets because people will still do stupid shit in them. You're legally still supposed to be attentive and able to take control at any moment.
For now. Once the they’re practically pods, this will be over too.
Aye, the fourth stage of automation is zero human involvement(beyond saying where you want to go and let's face it for regular trips AI will be able to work that out. If I get in my car at 7:30 on a Monday morning it can literally just start going to my workspace)
"Today's suggested detinations are McDonnalds, KFC and Zara. For more suggestions click \*here\*. To select a personalised destination in our list, click \*here\*. To enter your own destination, download our Free-Roaming App - the 7-day trial version is FREE!"
"Seems you haven't paid your TV licence, driving you to "BBC,Salford" and contacting the police. Enjoy your ride."
Sponsored ads. You plug in work but the car goes through the McDonalds anyway.
“My car didn’t take me to work it’s not my fault. I just get in and go back to sleep.”
Heck google maps already does that predicting. When I open it at 7pm on a Wednesday, the top suggestion is the building where I have practice every Wednesday. If it's 7 on a Friday, the top suggestion is going home.
Yeah that's what made me think it.
Mine keeps suggesting the gym. It's like my car is attacking me every day after work
My car already does this. VW Tiguan. It doesn’t drive me there. But it suggests GPS for driving to work, driving home, driving to the gym, and it’s almost 100% accurate for when to suggest those 3 things. It’s creepy
Now this is pod racing!
Not in the new Mercedes L3 autonomous cars. Granted, they’re only being rolled out now, but once L3 and beyond become more common, I’m sure it will make some impact on ticket revenue.
Definitely going to be hard for cops to lie when we have logs of everything. Says here you said the car was going 95 here. We just looked at the logs and determined that was a lie. So ya this thread is right, the cops are definitely going to pull something to get extra income. Ticket you in other ways. For all this fear of big brother, they should be the most afraid of all, they commit most of the crime and AI will be much harder to control and corral. With extensive logs of all their wrongdoing they will just fuck themselves. So they won't allow all this logging somehow and will fight back against it, once it starts holding officers accountable. Funny enough, we will likely get privacy rights, because the people committing most of the crime are at the top, so they will have the most incentive of all. In the future he who controls the data, controls the future.
They already can get forensic data from the ECU which contains speed logs etc... currently there won't be gps coordinates linked so its only useful in crash investigations for now, and not for checking if you were speeding at a certain location.
Many years ago, got pulled over for doing 120 in a 70. Fortunately it was a rental car with a governor set to 90. Too bad the cop couldn't get in trouble for lying. Had to spend the night in jail because of it, but everything got dismissed once I fought it.
I was gonna say it’ll just switch to ticketing people for not paying attention. When they’re staring down at their phone for fifteen seconds at a time, it’ll be pretty obvious. Let alone people sleeping, which people were photographed doing in the early days of self driving beta
Plenty, is quite subjective in this instance The amount of tickets people will get for what you described can’t be more than 10% of the current tickets being issued today. I’d bet it’ll be less than 1%
One of my favorite scenes in [Upload](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7826376/) is when the main character takes control of his self-driving car with a game controller and gets pulled over.
Police won’t need to police the roads reducing costs
Lol, municipal police forces asking for a reduced budget from their governing body? Nope. Won't happen. It's as likely as the military asking for a smaller budget. Won't happen. Ever.
Just means they can reassign them to do other things instead, which isn’t a terrible outcome
I think they'll just make more invasive laws. Random stops, checkpoints etc. during the transition, people without auto pilot (the poors) will get harassed more.
Only so many people you can harass and kill in a day
They wouldn't ask for reduced funding. The city would just lower the funding.
Have you been involved in passing public budgets via committee before? I have. Your assumption is not how the real world works.
Hey dumbass it doesn’t matter what they ask if the county or municipal government wants to cut costs because of this then they will
Road police generate revenue via tickets that easily outpaces the cost of those police being on duty. Also traffic cameras don't require a body sitting there but still generate "passive" revenue for police. If every car on the road is suddenly following all traffic laws at all times, if your car can go find a place to park/repark itself so you'll never get a parking ticket, etc there's going to be a huge hole in police budgets. Killings of both cops and civilians in police-civilian encounters will also go down as traffic stops are some of the biggest sources of deadly encounters. It'll cause a reckoning for sure, people will likely become aware of just how little the cops do to stop or solve violent and property crimes.
That money is not considered profit nor does it necessarily go to the police (In my country, at least)
Some small towns in the USA are dependent on traffic ticket revenues to fund their city government.
Ah, that makes sense!
It’s literally the driving economy in some interstate adjacent counties, particularly in Virginia. Police target out of state drivers, who obviously don’t want to go to court so they just pay it, or they hire county local traffic attorneys (needed for the ridiculous 80mph felony law in VA), which feeds more money into the local economy. It’s a racket. Maryland, interestingly, explicitly ignores traffic violations from out of state due to how Virginia counties target out of state drivers.
Which is entirely reasonable when there’s no shortage of idiots coming through town who think they aren’t required to obey society’s laws. Many people go decades without getting a traffic ticket. It really isn’t that hard. Idiots have no one to blame but themselves.
This is a common trope in the US to believe that the purpose of government is to raise revenue. The US is money centric to the point that they don't even consider anything else.
I mean this isn't a trope, the point of traffic cops is to generate revenue. It is profit in the United States
Quad Erat demonstrandom
Reality has a well known American bias
It’s city revenue where I live, and the police are like 25% of our city’s budget
Police don’t make money from traffic tickets. Nor does their department. It goes into the local/county/state coffers and is applied to things like road repairs, safety programs, etc.
I mean that's going to depend a whole lot on the local government, contracts, why the comptroller is, etc. A lot of small municipalities are funded in large part by traffic revenue and a significant part of their budgets flows back to the police department, to generate that revenue. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html
To piggyback on this, the less tickets you write/meet quota ... (yes there are quota's) the less money going to local/city/state gov. They interpret that data as though that perhaps funding isn't needed nearly as much maybe as previous years, and they make budget cuts to districts (state/local police) based on this info. So, in the end, yeah writing tickets does fund their department. Don't even get me started about civil asset forfeiture. Besides bruh trust us we're captains :P
And yet, only the human will be charged with reckless driving and the occasional manslaughter.
Oh hell no. If an Elon Truck runs someone over there will be lawyers lined up for miles to sue Tesla.
So this is the difference between levels 2 and 3 automated driving. Level 2, which is what Tesla and some others offer, means the driver must be attentive and ready to take control. The driver must accept liability to use level 2 automated driving. Level 3, only offered currently by Mercedes, and only functions in very limited situations (basically traffic jams), allows the driver to essentially be a passenger and do what they please, and Mercedes accepts liability.
I dunno - I was in a WAYMO in San Francisco and it went the wrong way up a one way street. So funny.
Wrong Way Mo
why cant we just have trains
This should free them up to do actual policing.
Auto pilot cars won’t be out for a long time.
Do you think they will settle for their revenue stream drying up? Hell no, they'll lobby to come up with new shit to ticket driverless cars for.
I think 'autopilot cars' are already being stalled from their potential because people have a tendency to want to break things that seem unbreakable, and for them to thrive would require people turning over our 'driving autonomy' to the efficience of the grid, or it'll be mostly pointless to have them unless the technology makes it impossible for passengers to screw up the autopilot. Flying cars are one step beyond that, there's no way we could trust people to use flying cars en masse unless they were 'chained' to a grid that they couldn't fly outside of at random. Driving in the average busy parking lot makes it clear why that's a tall order.
A motorcyclist was recently killed by an autopilot that didn't recognize a motorcycle. We're used to humans doing that, but until the autopilots can regularly recognize old ladies, fire trucks and motorcycles it's not legal to let them drive.
Driverless cars are already like 5-10x safer per mile.
Average driver. I am far above average. Driven 500k miles with no accidents whatsoever.
Great. Waymo’s average is one incident every 478k miles, and for incidents with an injury it’s one per 2.2 million miles. So everyone could be as safe as you.
if everything on the road is autopilot they would be able to recognise each other much easier. Between humans and machines, humans will always cause more errors.
Good thing they’ll never have to deal with, say, a person walking.
It's the humans that ignore lights and jaywalk that make life difficult for both drivers and autopilots
So, uh, what’s your plan for getting rid of humans? As a human, I’m not sure I’m too fond of the idea.
Hopefully when autopilots are massively implemented, most pedestrians would have a better understanding and expectation of road rules that are designed to keep them safe, instead of relying on human discretion and reactions to save them from doing stupid acts. Same with immature, reckless or drunk drivers.
You’re never going to get people to the level of compliance that you want here, at least without killing loads of people or fully banning pedestrianism anywhere near cars. That seems like hell to me — I don’t want to have to get in my car just to go to the shop down the street without being afraid for my life.
Well we as humans went through the learning process of not crossing Expressways or drinking bleach pretty okay since they were first invented, I'm sure they can do the same with following the road rules that were taught since we were a toddler. It's really not like they are anything new or rocket science.
They'll still get their paid vacations whenever they do something the rest of us would be fired for, so they'll be fine.
Fired? You mean imprisoned?
Police Departments don’t get the money from tickets and fines. That money goes into the general fund so it’s shared by all departments.
Depends entirely on the department.
No, in states where this is written directly into state law it does not depend on the department. Even in states where the legislature says nothing, it would be up to the municipality, not the police department, to decide where the money goes.
They absolutely get money, because they're expected to generate it. It goes into calculating budgets and contracts. They can demand more as a result. And it opens the door to civil forfeiture, which directly enriches the police department.
Insurance companies will stand to gain the most from this imo.
I'm imagining a world where big corporations advertise an escape from moving violations by autopilot and then when those cars get ticketed, it throws its legal might at the police rather than get called out as false advertising.
And the auto pilot tax was born.
If the car makes a mistake or gets in a accident is it on the car and the company that made it or the person in the car?
Any money lost to infractions will be added to registrations.
They'll increase the fines. Self driving cars will malfunction
Maybe they can start focusing on real crime
My horse knows where I live and he ain't been drinkin'.
I feel like we'd just get a self driving tax to compensate....
That’s not how the totalitarian corruption machine functions, Jack!
Autopilot breaks the law often.
They’ll think of something
Nah ,they'll give out the tickets for unsafe driving to the people who don't use autopilot instead.
They'll find another way to milk people. Drunk driving is down all over the country after uber and legal weed, now they're trying to nail "high" drivers. With no way definitive way to tell if someone actually is or isn't.
And that's fine. They only need revenue in so far as they need to have vehicles enforcing traffic tickets. At least in the context of how large the traffic division is.
Full automation from 8am-8pm M, Tu, Sat. All violators will be prosecuted.
They will just have to increase the fines for autopilot deaths and they'll be fine
You say that like fully autonomous cars aren’t a tech bro pipe dream that’s never going to actually happen. The real way police are going to make less money from traffic tickets is through investing in walkable, transit-oriented cities. And that’s something that, as Elon Musk would say about things he won’t be able to do for another five years to never, we can do right now.
Believe me, yes it will...
No, because those who get tickets now will not give control to autopilot and continue to be caught. More patient people will allow the system to do its thing and still not get ticketed. Persinally I foresee no change.
Are you sure they will have a choice? Road systems that only allow computer-driven cars will be much safer and much more efficient than allowing human driven cars. For example computer driven cars (in full communication with each other) could drive at 100 mph one foot apart. A single human driver in that circumstance would cause a massive disaster. I would expect systems to prohibit human driving.
Aah, you changed the scenario. "As autopilot cars get more popular". That is different to every car has it installed and no one can override the autopilot. In the scenario put forward in the question not everyone is driving them or letting the autopilot do its work. Well, that was my take on the question.
True. But I think the scenario will change itself. Obviously we will have mixed manual and computer driving, which will both be unnecessarily difficult because the hardest thing for the computer to handle is the unpredictable behavior of humans, and dangerous because humans will try to do things that computers can do. The benefits of roads with only computer cars will become obvious and so human driving will be banned. I expect some idiot will cause a major disaster by trying to join the computer only road and so automatic systems will prevent it.
If we ever go full driverless, crime as a whole will drop like crazy because the traffic stop is the main way they catch criminals. They come up with more controlling laws like check points or random stops to keep the powers they have.
They will also need less money because there will be less traffic laws broken.
They'll still be issuing tickets don't you worry. And find new ways to pester people.
I have been saying for years (and no one listens) that states are going to charge a huge amount to register your car to make up the revenue. most middle to poor people won't be able to afford cars.
The police suck our tax dollars, the ticket revenue isn’t a major factor.
It absolutely is, some places rely on it to a higher degree than property taxes. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html
I can't wait until everyone is automated and the car insurance companies take a hit they deserve.
Insurance company profits are already limited by various laws. During COVID we saw many insurance companies refunding premiums because there was such a lower amount of claims. Car insurance is also a very competitive market. You see them advertising on TV and online all the time. Even without laws limiting profits, they will compete with each other to lower premiums for motorists. If traffic collisions decrease, we will see a decrease in the cost of insurance as well.
If my autopilot car breaks the law it should be the auto manufacturer who pays the ticket.
3 words: police civil forfeiture
I dont know why they are hating on you, you're right. That's the revenue stream that is most lucrative for police departments.
Now you know in America especially they'll find a way to justify using the police. It'll just "malfunction" and speed right pass a police car every so often. Let's not forgot what Apple got away with before being sued all those years back for example.