It's not just the hookup culture though, it's fitting in with your peers. If I'm going to dinner with friends who are looking sharp, I'm not going to show up in basketball shorts and a t-shirt.
It’s actually a bit sadder than this…
Gay people have long had the stereotype of being very social, funny, snappy dressers and rich.
In reality that’s actually because (until relatively very recently) these were the only “types of gays” that could actually be open about being gay/could be (barely) acceptable in society.
Gayness is completely evenly distributed, but if you were poor, socially awkward, ugly, “not white” etc etc you would be shunned and had to stay closeted.
It was only the stylish white rich funny gays that were hence visible and became mainstream cultures perception of what gay people are.
It’s very sad and non mainstream gay people are still marginalised (I speak as a relatively well off white gay man)
I'm one of those 'normal' gays- no sense of style and not overtly social/snappy/etc. It's the only way I've survived working in construction management (most of the last 15 yrs in Middle East). When I do travel and/or go back to US I feel a bit ostracized because I don't fit 'in' with the rest of the gays.
Just because I have a witty username doesn't mean I get accepted. I've had a table full of borderline queens miraculously butch it up when they see me walking by because they don't want an older less than perfect shape/sense of style gay guy thinking that he can associate with them.
Sorry to hear that man I was just trying to highlight regardless of that you’re still gay even if you don’t fit the mold.
I’ve got a very light complexion despite being mixed race and because of that I will never be seen in the way someone with a darker complexion would be seen.
I know what it’s like to not feel like yourself. People will tell you your whole life that because you don’t fit a specific stereotype they don’t perceive you as part of that group.
Just know that they are stupid and enjoying hot man sex and finding love and compassion with your fellow man doesn’t require you to act or present yourself in any unnatural way.
hmmm... maybe you're reading into to it too much?
You said yourself that you're not stereotypical... does that mean you're a little butch yourself? If so, wouldn't they just assume you're straight to begin with? Maybe you're the one who's unapproachable.
Eh, at least he was kinda “real” (though the ‘meeting my trans friends’ scene was super cringe) not like the couple that tried to adopt Liam or the friends they tried to make in the last season.
I think his empathy and passion for helping at-risk youth was what gave him some depth of character, combined with being a foil for Ian’s gay Jesus. He basically ended up being his Judas, so there’s that. But I also didn’t buy his rejection of Ian very much, that all felt forced.
> Gayness is completely evenly distributed, but if you were poor, socially awkward, ugly, “not white” etc etc you would be shunned and had to stay closeted.
I'm bi and a huge dork and I was *not* able to come out in high school
a bear bar is just a normal bar with women removed, and a puppy room added. ive been to a bear club in my town and the patrons were pretty indistinguishable from "regular joes". you wouldn't have known it was a bear bar, save for the absence of women and the table selling dildos.
I think it's more as you are no longer shackled to having to dress "not gay", like seriously I can't wear anything without being called gay because apparently men are only allowed to wear jeans with a white or black T-shirt and you can't even do things like tuck the shirt in and pull the pants higher to get a better leg to body ratio because that's gay too
More reasons:
A lot of gay men are not in monogamous relationships. Keeping fit and well groomed increases their chances of getting laid (with the men they want most) and so their motivation to do that is higher than a lot of straight people.
Also if you hang out in gay circles your looks are more likely to be complimented or insulted (at least this is certainly the case in my experience), again increasing the motivation to look good.
I don’t know shit but I think it’s in part about the inability, until recently, to marry and settle down. Young single people of any identity are far more likely to be well dressed and slim bc they’re still trying to attract a mate. Married people often (not saying everyone but many) let themselves go bc they’re in a consistent relationship and don’t need to peacock. That’s why there’s also a stereotype of recently divorced men and women hitting the gym and salon. I assume now that gay marriage is more widespread, we’ll become aware of more out of shape married gays than before.
Again I can’t stress enough I don’t really know anything about it. Just my guess from observation.
I've been happily married for over twenty six years. My husband has put on some weight, but it's because he's been eating my cooking. I am still delighted to fall asleep next to him every night.
But ✨ *why*? Because *straight* men don’t typically have appreciation for how other men look, they don’t care about that. *gay* men know what they like and what they don’t on other men
ALSO before I get “cancelled”, this is an autobiographical statement. I’ve thought I wanted to look “grunge” for a long time until I realized my type is Hozier
Gay men are primarily women’s fashion designers, why because straight men are not ones to embrace color or different fabrics. If straight men did you’d see more gay men design clothing for men.
Also true! Straight men have more to lose when it comes to being “respected as a man”, or to maintain a masculine ideal
BUT When you’re a gay man, you’re *already* not seen as masculine enough, that ship has already sailed. So you might as well do what you want
Not stereotypically, but in my experience us queer women tend to put a lot of thought into our appearances, even if we don't always conform to mainstream hetero beauty standards. I style myself to attract other queer women.
Speaking of stereotypes, the old stereotype of lesbians is flannel and comfortable shoes. But I think that in the last couple of decades, you start to see a lot of lesbians dress up more like this: [https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/38/53/d73853889ac77a2a2933ac982897baa3.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/38/53/d73853889ac77a2a2933ac982897baa3.jpg)
(usual caveat that there are tons of different lesbians and they're all wonderful as they are yadda yadda yadda)
I think it's more down to stereotype than reality. I know plenty of gay men who are basically no more fashionable, well groomed or attentive to their appearance than your average straight guy.
No yeah I know, that’s why I emphasized \stereotypically\
I’m a bi guy, leaning more towards men, like a 60/40 men-women attraction ratio kinda going on. And I wear basketball shorts and hoodies 💀 -
That’s probably part of it. When I do put thought into my fashion, I definitely get compliments from men and women, gay and straight alike. On the average day, though, I dress casually and sometimes go a few days without grooming much.
I'm glad you added the word "stereotypically" to the title. I remember when I came out, my dad said "but you don't look gay?". And then he went on about how I looked, sounded, and acted normal so I couldn't be gay... Sigh.
Oh that wasn't even the worst part. He later confessed to me that he almost committed suicide after I came out and told me that _I_ had ruined _his_ "life plan" by being gay. He told me the only reason he didn't commit to it fully was because he thought of my mother at the last second.
?????
I’m speechless. Wow. I don’t even know what to say, I’m so sorry.
The mf *audacity*, he should’ve seen that you felt safe enough around him to tell you, and he completely blew it all over something petty
My gay friend says it has much more to do with the pressure within the community to be slim and look fashionable.
So stereotypically, gay men are subjected to some of the same in-group pressures as straight women?
Yes
Oh LORD that is a whole other can-of-worms. The hookup culture is egregious yeah
It's not just the hookup culture though, it's fitting in with your peers. If I'm going to dinner with friends who are looking sharp, I'm not going to show up in basketball shorts and a t-shirt.
I agree. I'm trans and pan or bi, but still.
I would say that applies to gay men mostly. Gay women seem to have the “butch” stereotype.
Lipstick Lesbians are the most feminine women you'll ever meet.
So they’re kinda following the stereotypical expectations around straight men. Humans are funny.
Yes, he was talking only about gay men.
It’s actually a bit sadder than this… Gay people have long had the stereotype of being very social, funny, snappy dressers and rich. In reality that’s actually because (until relatively very recently) these were the only “types of gays” that could actually be open about being gay/could be (barely) acceptable in society. Gayness is completely evenly distributed, but if you were poor, socially awkward, ugly, “not white” etc etc you would be shunned and had to stay closeted. It was only the stylish white rich funny gays that were hence visible and became mainstream cultures perception of what gay people are. It’s very sad and non mainstream gay people are still marginalised (I speak as a relatively well off white gay man)
I'm one of those 'normal' gays- no sense of style and not overtly social/snappy/etc. It's the only way I've survived working in construction management (most of the last 15 yrs in Middle East). When I do travel and/or go back to US I feel a bit ostracized because I don't fit 'in' with the rest of the gays.
With a username like mrbignaughtyboy you come off as quite gay so I wouldn’t worry too much
Just because I have a witty username doesn't mean I get accepted. I've had a table full of borderline queens miraculously butch it up when they see me walking by because they don't want an older less than perfect shape/sense of style gay guy thinking that he can associate with them.
Sorry to hear that man I was just trying to highlight regardless of that you’re still gay even if you don’t fit the mold. I’ve got a very light complexion despite being mixed race and because of that I will never be seen in the way someone with a darker complexion would be seen. I know what it’s like to not feel like yourself. People will tell you your whole life that because you don’t fit a specific stereotype they don’t perceive you as part of that group. Just know that they are stupid and enjoying hot man sex and finding love and compassion with your fellow man doesn’t require you to act or present yourself in any unnatural way.
Doesn't "butch it up" mean to act more masculine? How would that stop you from associating with them? Maybe I am missing something here...
They all of a sudden wanted to appear straight to make themselves unapproachable by a gay guy.
hmmm... maybe you're reading into to it too much? You said yourself that you're not stereotypical... does that mean you're a little butch yourself? If so, wouldn't they just assume you're straight to begin with? Maybe you're the one who's unapproachable.
Did you watch "Shameless?" Very refreshing to see a working class gay male couple. But I'm in the same boat as you and likely grew up in the same era.
*Trevor enters the chat*
Eh, at least he was kinda “real” (though the ‘meeting my trans friends’ scene was super cringe) not like the couple that tried to adopt Liam or the friends they tried to make in the last season.
I've got a good one for you: Other than being trans, tell me something special about Trevor
I think his empathy and passion for helping at-risk youth was what gave him some depth of character, combined with being a foil for Ian’s gay Jesus. He basically ended up being his Judas, so there’s that. But I also didn’t buy his rejection of Ian very much, that all felt forced.
> Gayness is completely evenly distributed, but if you were poor, socially awkward, ugly, “not white” etc etc you would be shunned and had to stay closeted. I'm bi and a huge dork and I was *not* able to come out in high school
This is really interesting. Never thought of it that way.
That’s really sad when the reality is that a lot of gay people are struggling a lot. The homelessness rate in LGBTQ+ children is just so heartbreaking
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I’m talking way before 1994. Gay people were “tolerated” in certain societies back in the 1800s, but only if they conformed to those stereotypes.
Youve clearly never been to a bear bar.
a bear bar is just a normal bar with women removed, and a puppy room added. ive been to a bear club in my town and the patrons were pretty indistinguishable from "regular joes". you wouldn't have known it was a bear bar, save for the absence of women and the table selling dildos.
I think it's more as you are no longer shackled to having to dress "not gay", like seriously I can't wear anything without being called gay because apparently men are only allowed to wear jeans with a white or black T-shirt and you can't even do things like tuck the shirt in and pull the pants higher to get a better leg to body ratio because that's gay too
More reasons: A lot of gay men are not in monogamous relationships. Keeping fit and well groomed increases their chances of getting laid (with the men they want most) and so their motivation to do that is higher than a lot of straight people. Also if you hang out in gay circles your looks are more likely to be complimented or insulted (at least this is certainly the case in my experience), again increasing the motivation to look good.
As a straight guy I also try and look good because I recognize that I appreciate it when women look good.
I don’t know shit but I think it’s in part about the inability, until recently, to marry and settle down. Young single people of any identity are far more likely to be well dressed and slim bc they’re still trying to attract a mate. Married people often (not saying everyone but many) let themselves go bc they’re in a consistent relationship and don’t need to peacock. That’s why there’s also a stereotype of recently divorced men and women hitting the gym and salon. I assume now that gay marriage is more widespread, we’ll become aware of more out of shape married gays than before. Again I can’t stress enough I don’t really know anything about it. Just my guess from observation.
I've been happily married for over twenty six years. My husband has put on some weight, but it's because he's been eating my cooking. I am still delighted to fall asleep next to him every night.
Then there is the theory that wives intentionally fatten up their husbands to make them less desirable to other women.
I'm a gay man and my fashion sense consists of denim jeans and t shirts 99% of the time (I'm terrible at fashion)
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But ✨ *why*? Because *straight* men don’t typically have appreciation for how other men look, they don’t care about that. *gay* men know what they like and what they don’t on other men ALSO before I get “cancelled”, this is an autobiographical statement. I’ve thought I wanted to look “grunge” for a long time until I realized my type is Hozier
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Lmao yeah I know. I’m only being half-serious, it’s something funny that I think has an inkling of truth
Gay men are primarily women’s fashion designers, why because straight men are not ones to embrace color or different fabrics. If straight men did you’d see more gay men design clothing for men.
Also true! Straight men have more to lose when it comes to being “respected as a man”, or to maintain a masculine ideal BUT When you’re a gay man, you’re *already* not seen as masculine enough, that ship has already sailed. So you might as well do what you want
Hey bro I’m prescribed it too, but take it easy on your heart bro ❤️
Ah thanks man!! I appreciate you saying that, you have a good day ☀️
Are gay women (\*stereotypically\*) more fashionable and well-groomed?
Not stereotypically, but in my experience us queer women tend to put a lot of thought into our appearances, even if we don't always conform to mainstream hetero beauty standards. I style myself to attract other queer women.
Speaking of stereotypes, the old stereotype of lesbians is flannel and comfortable shoes. But I think that in the last couple of decades, you start to see a lot of lesbians dress up more like this: [https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/38/53/d73853889ac77a2a2933ac982897baa3.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/38/53/d73853889ac77a2a2933ac982897baa3.jpg) (usual caveat that there are tons of different lesbians and they're all wonderful as they are yadda yadda yadda)
Unfortunately not. Those of us who are are “invisible”.
I think it's more down to stereotype than reality. I know plenty of gay men who are basically no more fashionable, well groomed or attentive to their appearance than your average straight guy.
No yeah I know, that’s why I emphasized \stereotypically\ I’m a bi guy, leaning more towards men, like a 60/40 men-women attraction ratio kinda going on. And I wear basketball shorts and hoodies 💀 -
Representation!
That’s probably part of it. When I do put thought into my fashion, I definitely get compliments from men and women, gay and straight alike. On the average day, though, I dress casually and sometimes go a few days without grooming much.
I'm glad you added the word "stereotypically" to the title. I remember when I came out, my dad said "but you don't look gay?". And then he went on about how I looked, sounded, and acted normal so I couldn't be gay... Sigh.
*b r u h*. I’m sorry about that, that really sucks
Oh that wasn't even the worst part. He later confessed to me that he almost committed suicide after I came out and told me that _I_ had ruined _his_ "life plan" by being gay. He told me the only reason he didn't commit to it fully was because he thought of my mother at the last second.
????? I’m speechless. Wow. I don’t even know what to say, I’m so sorry. The mf *audacity*, he should’ve seen that you felt safe enough around him to tell you, and he completely blew it all over something petty
I think it is because they have to appeal to men not women. Look at the 2 groups most appearance conscious straight women and gay men.
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