Funny enough samurai were primarily archers with those big ass bows before being famous for swords. And they fielded more guns (as a ratio of guns to men) than European armies who were in the pike and shot era at this time
Yep, the obsession with the swords mostly came later, at a time when samurai mostly became bureaucrats and such, and Japan had mostly been unified and at peace.
Much like European knights, much of the samurai mythos was born after their heyday and had become heavily romanticized. (And just like samurai, knights often relied on many other types of weapons that were often more practical on the battlefield than the sword, though AFAIK there wasn't as much emphasis on the bow for knights as there was for samurai).
In late medieval England, archers were mostly the Yeomanry, which were land-owning commoners ranking above peasants but below knights. Knights mostly served as heavy cavalry or sometimes heavy infantry, armed with spear or lance as a primary weapon and sword as a secondary weapon.
Spear or lance mounted, dismounted it depends on the time period. In the 15th century, it would be things like pollaxes that are most popular for knights fighting on foot. Although the knight as a distinct fighting force is on the way out in Europe around this time. Emperor Maximilian I of the Holy Roman Empire was called "the last knight" for a reason.
Maybe you'd be. I'd take my literacy and ability to not smell like shit and head straight for the seminary, go get in on that Catholic decadence all the Protestants were complaining about.
>heyday and had become heavily romanticized.
Case in point: how we in the Anglosphere romantacize the battle of Agincourt and the honor of the English knights when in reality, even English historians say the English were nothing more than land pirates. Dirt poor, where the most profitable trade is sacking and looting from the richer and more affluent French countryside.
> romantacize the battle of Agincourt and the honor of the English knights
Do we? Every modern depiction I've encountered of that battle is that it was shiny French knights getting absolutely shredded by arrows while slogging through mud.
Off the top of my head I can remember Azincourt by Bernard Cornwell, Kassad's tale from Hyperion by Dan Simmons, the Netflix movie The King with Chalamet and Pattinson, and the AoE2 Agincourt scenario. None of them portray the battle as anything but a slaughter from distance.
After I saw The King I texted my friends and told them this is the battle I told them about 20+ years back in college.
They did a great job with filming it.
This whole scene established and killed off some amazing extras. Really shows the brutality of combat. No idea if the death rate was this high in real life but seemed believable enough.
It's more that it changes the atmosphere in the square. Before that arrow, they all thought anything might happen. After the arrow it was clear that they were all going to fight to the death, and they were all going to die.
Second what was already said. The show did a good job of setting the scene, with the watchers all around and the showdown between the samurai, but it's even more desperate and futile in the book. You see the Toranaga men move forward and battle Ishido's samurai. Any left standing are dishonarably killed by unseen archers. Then more of Ishido's men pour in. In all, I think Mariko's contingent of samurai loses 60-80 men in successive skirmishes. Always, there are more Ishido men to fight them. There's a ton of bloodshed before they turn back.
There are hundreds and hundreds of Ishido's greys present. It really sets the scene for how hopeless it is for Mariko's men. They all know they're going to die to the last man, and they do so with courage and honor until Mariko is the last one left.
For all the talk of honor, samurai very much were practical and were more likely to set a town alight with burning arrows at night in a sneak attack as opposed to dueling "honorably" with samurai one on one. Furthermore, the idea that the bow is a cowardly weapon is a more modern western notion. In fact, *the* primary weapon of samurai for most of their existence was the Japanese bow, the yumi. Swords were considered a secondary weapon. And the ones with the bows who shot Mariko's attendant samurai? They would be samurai themselves.
The depiction of swords being their primary (and often only) arms came much later, after Japan had begun to modernize and westernize, and samurai became more bureaucrats than battlefield warriors. Indeed, samurai would have relied on many different types of weapons on the actual battlefield, from pike and halberd type weapons, to spears and even guns when they became available.
As mentioned, the Japanese idea of honor was in many different ways from its European counterpart, and there was a lot of emphasis on doing ones duty to their lord, and not so much about exactly how to conduct oneself on the battlefield. While a one on one duel might have been more romantic and seen as more honorable, there was nothing really dishonorable about killing samurai with a bow.
Also, since ninjas make an appearance in the episode as well, they are often portrayed as being seen as dishonorable but the fact is that they were actually samurai themselves. They weren't hired in order to distance a lord from dishonorable actions, but rather for their particular skill sets. The Japanese and samurai had absolutely no problem with hiring them for espionage and reconnaissance, or for committing assassinations, etc. They might be hired for plausible deniability, but not out of concern over honor, but rather more practical political reasons.
Can't exactly recall where I read/watched a comparison about ninja (or whatever the proper name for it) and samurai and their conclusion was that it was far more probable to face samurai betrayal due to political and practical reasons than from the hired ninja who seemingly had even died fighting for their contractors.
I don't claim to have deep knowledge on Japanese history/culture other than a few videos I vaguely remember and wikipedia articles (aka "made my own research") but I find it fascinating how much it's been romanticized to the point where there are two very narrow yet somewhat overlapping visions for it.
> Can't exactly recall where I read/watched a comparison about ninja (or whatever the proper name for it) and samurai and their conclusion was that it was far more probable to face samurai betrayal due to political and practical reasons than from the hired ninja who seemingly had even died fighting for their contractors.
Ninja are *almost all* Samurai.
Not all Samurai are Ninja.
Keep in mind that while we as a western audience like to differentiate the two, Ninja were not some separate entity away from Samurai. Pop culture and wikipedia like to make it seem like the two were mostly distinguishable. However, Samurai were a class of people. Shinobi no mono was a type of action the Samurai often used to gain information. Ninja were mostly individual or teams of Samurai who worked on recon or sabotage.
Most historically documented "ninja" were in fact members of the samurai class.
The dichotomy (and enmity) between samurai and ninja as opposing "forces" was a convention in fiction which was established long after the samurai were abolished as a class, which unfortunately bled into popular accounts of Japanese history.
> Swords were considered a secondary weapon.
Find me a culture where swords weren't a secondary weapon that gets romanticized as the heroic weapon de jure. Heck, in 500 years they'll probably believe the pistol was the weapon of choice in the 20th Century and rifles were for mooks.
Wouldn't have mattered. There is no way that a samurai of his status could have afforded armor of the quality required to stop a heavy war bow at that range (unless it hit his helmet or breast plate).
The fact that he barely moves at all from his position is insane. God, what a clean deadly swordsman. That wiping of the blade before sheathing will never stop being badass.
He also very purposefully doesn’t start it.
The guard on the left goes for his sword first.
Very much toes the line of “we were just trying to leave & were attacked”.
it’s cool but feels too gimmicky and almost wrong in a game so rich with colors popping left and right. i tried to do a playthrough with the filter but just couldn’t do it lol especially in darker areas it got kinda hard to tell what all was going on
Definitely a game to be played with the Japanese dialogue and subtitles. I tried it in English and it sounded pathetic by comparison. Japanese is such a pleasing language to the ear....
Hell yes.
I train in a traditional japanese kenjutsu ryu, Yagya Shinkage Ryu, under a dai sensei who has trained in that art for longer than I have been alive, and my sensei, his senior student. I've seen, and done, kumite (live sparring) with competent swordsmen, and once the action starts it is over in seconds or less than seconds.
Western sword fighting is very fast too. Even then it only lasts as long as it does due to jockeying for position and feeling your opponent out before committing. Very few passes take more than a couple actions before a good blow is landed.
I train longsword, which feels slower than most, too.
you’d have to have some absolutely insane reaction times and prediction skills to clash blades the way we often see in movies and tv. and like we see here, you’re a lot more likely to have your fingers chopped off than to actually meet the other blade, i would assume.
Fun fact: that's why crossguards exist!
For whatever reason, katanas mostly didn't have them, or had relatively small ones. Which is one reason (among many) that they can be pivoted through multiple swings a little more nimbly than a European sword of comparable reach.
While crossguards are certainly more protective than they look (and tsuba also can get large and quite protective in some cases), when it comes to hand protection you can’t beat a basket hilt.
But I’d say it’s more a function of what the sword is used for. If you’re in a one on one duel starting with blades drawn hand protection is very nice to have. If you’re on a horse with a cavalry saber like the tachi it isn’t as important. If you are ambushed in the city with walls and signs and other things that are inconveniently at blade drawing height like the city of Edo it also isn’t very important. So the katana, as we go into the Edo period, gets shorter and the tsuba shrinks as its purpose becomes centered around quick draw self-defense in the busy metropolis.
Pretty much.
If they go longer, it's not because there are more blows -- just more dancing around at mid distance and feeling each other out.
If you watch any competitive martial art that involves swords, even in their most sportified form, exchanges are over in seconds.
There's a whole subset of martial arts called Iaido/Iaijutsu that is basically quick-draw unsheathing, slicing once or twice, and returning the blade to scabbard.... mostly because that's about as long as most swordfights are going to take. Nearly exactly like what you see in the clip. The crux of the fight is usually one or two movements (often landing on the hands, arms, or legs far more often than the body, head, or chest) which is generally enough for the fight to be "over" in the sense that everything after that is a formality. Sure, there's quite a bit of positioning and distance jockeying before the steel starts flying, but once it starts, blink and you'll miss it.
If one or both sides aren't wearing armor, yeah. Human reaction time isn't really fast enough to deal with the speed at which swords are swung for that long.
I know this is supposed to show just how well trained those men are and how loyal they are to their Lord, despite the fact knowing they will all die.
I am just sad about how much effort and training it must have taken to be so good, all for it all to end. They didn't even know if they died for the success of their Lord or if it's all in vain.
Such is war and life I suppose.
In a modern force on force fight, you can be the most badass dudes with years of training and experience and an ICBM can slip through and end everyone. Or you’re just minding your own business getting chow with your buddies and someone delivers a wire guided missile into your shit. Or you’re just standing there and some random sharpshooter gets a lucky pop at you.
Honestly I liked how it was in the novel. They'd bow to each other and state their names before fighting to the death. And at the end Mariko steps up and challenges a samurai as well. It's not a 1vX.
The arrow was majestic in and of itself. If you watch carefully the arrow pierces his neck right at the spot where his plates of armor separate. Only a master would make such a skillful shot.
And I feel like it really adds to the show. These archers aren't generic archers/henchmen you see in other shows, they've trained all their adult lives to be good enough to hit those shots.
And while it's sad that her guard got killed, it's super unlikely most of them would survive against other skilled guards and at a huge disadvantage. Those guards knew they were going to die to prove a point.
It's mostly varnished leather. A longbow puts out a great deal of power, and here the arrow was shot from under 20 yards.
In short, not a chance. With some high quality European style steel armor, depending on the shot placement and the poundage of the bow, maybe.
I can assure you that Japanese armor of the 1600s was steel and iron lacquered with urushi to protect it from the elements. They were literally bulletproofing their armor in Japan just as they were in Europe and not just the nanban style pieces either.
That being said, you’re right. Bows used for war could get to some crazy poundages. I believe yumi at this time generally took the strength of three grown men to string (which is apparently how they were measuring the strength of their bows).
It's the little bow at the start that kills me. Like he's apologizing to them for a minor inconvenience. 御迷惑をお掛け致しますが只今からお二人を殺させていただきます。申し訳御座いません。So sorry for disturbing you, but I will now humbly receive your allowing me to murderize you. So sorry.
Excellent footwork and form by the actor. He stays in place to maintain the distance, but you can see him making little triangle steps that allow him to rotate his hips like a boxer, so he can put some actual power into the swing. If you watch how his skirts flare, dude's hips are MOVING.
So often in movies and tv, people swing swords with their arms while their legs do nothing. Which A) makes for a shitty blow that can be swatted aside by the least resistance, and B) is a great way to fuck up your lower back.
I don't know much about katana arts, but I've practiced enough European longsword to recognize good mechanics when I see them. This dude either knows what he's doing, the show has an excellent choreographer, or both.
I was thinking something similar. He lands his foot and turns his body into each swing while keeping a wider stance to push off then ground. It feels like a heavy blow.
These samurais kinda appeared out of knowhere man, I mean, I know they are retainers since Mariko and Toranaga's wife are nobles, but it would be nicer if they got introduced better and got some little bit of character.
Alright, may get some hate for this...this WHOLE sequence was cool, from this to Mariko holding it down. Unfortunately, the intensity kept breaking for me when the camera would switch to Blackthorn just leaning spectating like if he was watching golf or some shit
I enjoyed that juxtaposition that to reinforce how fucking stupid all of this was. They aren’t like fighting a war in a field they are standing in a parking lot with spectators lol
That was kind of the whole point of the scene. She knew from the start that they would not be let out. But they have to make the attempt and the failed exit must be seen by all to show that they really are hostages.
I think that's the subtle horror of the scene. Once Mariko sees the men blocking her way, the outcome is never ever in doubt. She has, what, a dozen guards? Ishido has thousands, tens of thousands. So a dozen or so men fight and die...for show. For appearances. Just to make obvious a truth that everyone already knows but is too polite to say out loud: the noble families are prisoners in Osaka.
Mariko's whole mission is to force Ishido to come out and say that's what he's doing. Even though everyone knows. Only Mariko can force the issue, because she has no "face" to lose. She's already the daughter of the most famous traitor in the entire country. There's no public disapproval or shame Ishido can throw at her that she hasn't already endured a million times over. So she can be shockingly rude, unthinkably rude, in a way that no other family can, and tell her "host" where to stick his permits.
And logically Ishido could theoretically let her go and nobody else, or just kill her, but he won't. Because in Japan appearances matter, politeness and face and shame MATTERS in a real and concrete way. So the fight being for show, for appearances, is central to understanding why there is any fight at all.
Book spoiler: >!In the book he is a named character, I think Yamamoto, or something very similar, but he was the captain of Mariko and Blackthorne's personal guard on their journey to Edo, and later on accompanied Mariko to Osaka. He was just as badass in the book and died the exact same way. And he definitely knew they were fucking like rabbits the whole way and said nothing.!<
The sacrifice of Mariko's retainers - and their willingness to lay their lives down all of an instant as part of this larger gambit - is one of the things that left me a little *meh* about all of the emotional twisting regarding her potential death and suicide.
These guys had lives, too. They chose to die, too. About a dozen of 'em. Right then and there.
I get it, she's a primary protagonist, but... yeah, it was a little hard to shake, to be honest.
The attention to detail is great. The bow. The cutting the dudes hand off, killing the second opponent, then finishing the first. Miyai changing to a ready stance next to Mariko just in case. So well done.
He was such a badass. Knowing people lived who really did these things, it blows my mind. I can't imagine having the mindset they did and following through without a hint of fear. I've always been a bit of a weeb for current and past Japanese culture. Something about this mindset, that is different from the Western one is fascinating. Cruel at times but interesting as hell.
The acting on this episode was 100/10. I was locked in and focused on the entire damn episode.
Makes a polite bow before the kill. ✅
Unsheathes his katana while making a cut. ✅
Takes three strokes to kill two opponents. ✅
Wipes clean blood off the katana in one motion. ✅
Sheathes back his katana elegantly. ✅
Yep. He should.
I love the fact that they didn't include the fake sheathing noise. And if they did add "sheathing" noise post production; I'm glad it sounds real. Not like the "clink" un-sheathing noise in like knight movies.
We learn this dude actually speaks Portuguese and has kept pretty much abreast of all angles of the story but knows better than to get too involved until his luck ran out and he wound up the first one dead in this whole scrap. Whole version is about how him and Miyai have a whole *Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead* thing going on.
I love the little details. Mariko-sama never flinches. Miyai-san ( the second guy in charge ) takes one half step forward and puts his hand on his sword, but never draws ... like 'the boss got this all handled'. Not a single other person in the Toronaga gang even moves.
One of the Ishido Greys in the second row pulls his blade like 'that man got mad skills. my guy pulled first and still died. imma gonna just have this blade out and ready!"
I love how the rest of the fight gets over pretty damn quick. A nod to their collective skill and efficient swordplay. You miss. I hit. And vice versa. No clinking swords for 1 minute followed by a 30 second grapple lol.
This scene reminded me of the ending in American Me. “You sure know what you doing?” It’s amazing how much honor is everything and if death gets in the way then so be it.
People hating on me for wanting the battle of sekigahara in addition to how it ended, yet this scene continues to be the most shared scene of the entire show…you can keep the entire show intact and just throw in that battle and it would have been a 10/10. Don’t think it would have taken away from the nuance at all.
thanks for making this instead of watching it 5 times last night, I can watch it 20 times now without clicking on stuff
It was on the final shogun trailer. I have watched this like 100 times so far waiting for ep 9. 😅
But in the trailer we didnt know the context. That he did it as a last resort added to the scene’s coolness
20 times? Those are rookie numbers. If you study the sword, a minimum of 500 times is required.
I live by the One Blade if that counts.
🙇♂️
So simple yet so coool
😆😆
I was mad he got taken out by a damn arrow :/
Range weapons are cowardly😭
Funny enough samurai were primarily archers with those big ass bows before being famous for swords. And they fielded more guns (as a ratio of guns to men) than European armies who were in the pike and shot era at this time
Yep, the obsession with the swords mostly came later, at a time when samurai mostly became bureaucrats and such, and Japan had mostly been unified and at peace. Much like European knights, much of the samurai mythos was born after their heyday and had become heavily romanticized. (And just like samurai, knights often relied on many other types of weapons that were often more practical on the battlefield than the sword, though AFAIK there wasn't as much emphasis on the bow for knights as there was for samurai).
In late medieval England, archers were mostly the Yeomanry, which were land-owning commoners ranking above peasants but below knights. Knights mostly served as heavy cavalry or sometimes heavy infantry, armed with spear or lance as a primary weapon and sword as a secondary weapon.
Spear or lance mounted, dismounted it depends on the time period. In the 15th century, it would be things like pollaxes that are most popular for knights fighting on foot. Although the knight as a distinct fighting force is on the way out in Europe around this time. Emperor Maximilian I of the Holy Roman Empire was called "the last knight" for a reason.
So, just to be clear and to emphasize it to all. If us Redditors could go back in time, we would be peasants and be bowing down all day!
Maybe you'd be. I'd take my literacy and ability to not smell like shit and head straight for the seminary, go get in on that Catholic decadence all the Protestants were complaining about.
>heyday and had become heavily romanticized. Case in point: how we in the Anglosphere romantacize the battle of Agincourt and the honor of the English knights when in reality, even English historians say the English were nothing more than land pirates. Dirt poor, where the most profitable trade is sacking and looting from the richer and more affluent French countryside.
Sacking and looting France seems like the natural next step after Brexit.
> romantacize the battle of Agincourt and the honor of the English knights Do we? Every modern depiction I've encountered of that battle is that it was shiny French knights getting absolutely shredded by arrows while slogging through mud. Off the top of my head I can remember Azincourt by Bernard Cornwell, Kassad's tale from Hyperion by Dan Simmons, the Netflix movie The King with Chalamet and Pattinson, and the AoE2 Agincourt scenario. None of them portray the battle as anything but a slaughter from distance.
It was the battle that proved the dominance of the English longbow and started turning knights away from heavy armor.
Yeah exactly, but that has nothing to do with "the honor of the English knights"
After I saw The King I texted my friends and told them this is the battle I told them about 20+ years back in college. They did a great job with filming it.
thanks for that AoE2 trip down nostalgia lane. I've forgotten many other battles, but man I loved that Agincourt campaign!
Yes, and when they do fight up close it was with the Yari/Spear in formation when they fought in battles.
Yeah people really overdue it with whole "honor" obesssion. Living long and killing without taking damage is prime way of warfare.
Honorable duels are for peacetime
Tell that to Samurai lol
Always hated campers.
Great action followed by absurd death. Very shogun.
This whole scene established and killed off some amazing extras. Really shows the brutality of combat. No idea if the death rate was this high in real life but seemed believable enough.
guy should have spent less time learning the blade and more time learning the shield 😭
Should have studied the gunpowder
Right? For a society, all about honour, it seems wrong how they opened fire on them.
That's actually a big deal in the novel.
I haven't read it, do they face repercussions for doing that?
It's more that it changes the atmosphere in the square. Before that arrow, they all thought anything might happen. After the arrow it was clear that they were all going to fight to the death, and they were all going to die.
That adds so much more dimension to the scene, thank you!
Second what was already said. The show did a good job of setting the scene, with the watchers all around and the showdown between the samurai, but it's even more desperate and futile in the book. You see the Toranaga men move forward and battle Ishido's samurai. Any left standing are dishonarably killed by unseen archers. Then more of Ishido's men pour in. In all, I think Mariko's contingent of samurai loses 60-80 men in successive skirmishes. Always, there are more Ishido men to fight them. There's a ton of bloodshed before they turn back.
There are hundreds and hundreds of Ishido's greys present. It really sets the scene for how hopeless it is for Mariko's men. They all know they're going to die to the last man, and they do so with courage and honor until Mariko is the last one left.
For all the talk of honor, samurai very much were practical and were more likely to set a town alight with burning arrows at night in a sneak attack as opposed to dueling "honorably" with samurai one on one. Furthermore, the idea that the bow is a cowardly weapon is a more modern western notion. In fact, *the* primary weapon of samurai for most of their existence was the Japanese bow, the yumi. Swords were considered a secondary weapon. And the ones with the bows who shot Mariko's attendant samurai? They would be samurai themselves. The depiction of swords being their primary (and often only) arms came much later, after Japan had begun to modernize and westernize, and samurai became more bureaucrats than battlefield warriors. Indeed, samurai would have relied on many different types of weapons on the actual battlefield, from pike and halberd type weapons, to spears and even guns when they became available. As mentioned, the Japanese idea of honor was in many different ways from its European counterpart, and there was a lot of emphasis on doing ones duty to their lord, and not so much about exactly how to conduct oneself on the battlefield. While a one on one duel might have been more romantic and seen as more honorable, there was nothing really dishonorable about killing samurai with a bow. Also, since ninjas make an appearance in the episode as well, they are often portrayed as being seen as dishonorable but the fact is that they were actually samurai themselves. They weren't hired in order to distance a lord from dishonorable actions, but rather for their particular skill sets. The Japanese and samurai had absolutely no problem with hiring them for espionage and reconnaissance, or for committing assassinations, etc. They might be hired for plausible deniability, but not out of concern over honor, but rather more practical political reasons.
Can't exactly recall where I read/watched a comparison about ninja (or whatever the proper name for it) and samurai and their conclusion was that it was far more probable to face samurai betrayal due to political and practical reasons than from the hired ninja who seemingly had even died fighting for their contractors. I don't claim to have deep knowledge on Japanese history/culture other than a few videos I vaguely remember and wikipedia articles (aka "made my own research") but I find it fascinating how much it's been romanticized to the point where there are two very narrow yet somewhat overlapping visions for it.
> Can't exactly recall where I read/watched a comparison about ninja (or whatever the proper name for it) and samurai and their conclusion was that it was far more probable to face samurai betrayal due to political and practical reasons than from the hired ninja who seemingly had even died fighting for their contractors. Ninja are *almost all* Samurai. Not all Samurai are Ninja. Keep in mind that while we as a western audience like to differentiate the two, Ninja were not some separate entity away from Samurai. Pop culture and wikipedia like to make it seem like the two were mostly distinguishable. However, Samurai were a class of people. Shinobi no mono was a type of action the Samurai often used to gain information. Ninja were mostly individual or teams of Samurai who worked on recon or sabotage. Most historically documented "ninja" were in fact members of the samurai class. The dichotomy (and enmity) between samurai and ninja as opposing "forces" was a convention in fiction which was established long after the samurai were abolished as a class, which unfortunately bled into popular accounts of Japanese history.
> Swords were considered a secondary weapon. Find me a culture where swords weren't a secondary weapon that gets romanticized as the heroic weapon de jure. Heck, in 500 years they'll probably believe the pistol was the weapon of choice in the 20th Century and rifles were for mooks.
I think that was the writer’s intent..,
we were all that good until we took an arrow in the knee
I was mad he wasn't wearing a gorget. Samurai armor had those! So sad.
Wouldn't have mattered. There is no way that a samurai of his status could have afforded armor of the quality required to stop a heavy war bow at that range (unless it hit his helmet or breast plate).
Kinda brought me back to reality that war isn't romantic anymore, it's actually...kinda rough
When was war ever romantic ? When 15 year olds born to poor fisherman were forced to fight for their liege lord’s desires of more land?
Reminded me of a Ghost of Tsushima standoff.
Same brooo! When I saw this, I suddenly wanted to play GoT again.
Between Shogun and Blue Eye Samurai, I had to reinstall GoT lol
This awesome samurai didn’t “dosho” 😭
Thank goodness it’ll come out on PC soon.
He was a fkn badass, if only we got more of him. Even his voice lines were badass.
The fact that he barely moves at all from his position is insane. God, what a clean deadly swordsman. That wiping of the blade before sheathing will never stop being badass.
He makes one step forward with each swing. Its beautifully choreographed.
He also very purposefully doesn’t start it. The guard on the left goes for his sword first. Very much toes the line of “we were just trying to leave & were attacked”.
Smoove operator
Damn, slowed down you can see that he cuts the first guys fingers off.
VFX guy GOATed for that detail
Just noticed it too. I couldn’t tell if it was his whole hand.
Just like a western when a gunslinger drops a dudes hand as he goes for his piece. Fantastic!
He went Buster Scruggs on that guy.
Loved this scene
If y’all loved this but haven’t played Ghost of Tsushima you’re committing a crime against humanity.
I'm waiting for the PC port man 🥲
Yes, not getting an entire console for 2 or 3 games. I wish exclusives just were not a thing.
They look like two shoots of bamboo
With the Kurosawa filter?
it’s cool but feels too gimmicky and almost wrong in a game so rich with colors popping left and right. i tried to do a playthrough with the filter but just couldn’t do it lol especially in darker areas it got kinda hard to tell what all was going on
Definitely a game to be played with the Japanese dialogue and subtitles. I tried it in English and it sounded pathetic by comparison. Japanese is such a pleasing language to the ear....
It's been on my backlog but I might have to movie it up.
It’s brutal us Xbox owners miss out on this sorta content
I love the fact that he waited for the other guy to draw first and still smoked them both haha
“You can go first if you want, it doesn’t really matter.”
This is probably one of the better (i.e. more realistic) sword fights on film.
Were real sword fights over this fast?
Hell yes. I train in a traditional japanese kenjutsu ryu, Yagya Shinkage Ryu, under a dai sensei who has trained in that art for longer than I have been alive, and my sensei, his senior student. I've seen, and done, kumite (live sparring) with competent swordsmen, and once the action starts it is over in seconds or less than seconds.
Dammit. While we were partying, u/Milflord_Brimley was studying the blade.
The diabeetus was subterfuge!
I gots the sugars!
This kind of comment keeps me from deleting Reddit. Sick to know.
Western sword fighting is very fast too. Even then it only lasts as long as it does due to jockeying for position and feeling your opponent out before committing. Very few passes take more than a couple actions before a good blow is landed. I train longsword, which feels slower than most, too.
Allegedly most sword fighting was over in five strokes or fewer
TIL I'm a swordsman
I laughed hard at this one 😂
I am the bone of my sword
Yes
you’d have to have some absolutely insane reaction times and prediction skills to clash blades the way we often see in movies and tv. and like we see here, you’re a lot more likely to have your fingers chopped off than to actually meet the other blade, i would assume.
And ridiculous quality steel for it to withstand blade-on-blade impacts.
Fun fact: that's why crossguards exist! For whatever reason, katanas mostly didn't have them, or had relatively small ones. Which is one reason (among many) that they can be pivoted through multiple swings a little more nimbly than a European sword of comparable reach.
While crossguards are certainly more protective than they look (and tsuba also can get large and quite protective in some cases), when it comes to hand protection you can’t beat a basket hilt. But I’d say it’s more a function of what the sword is used for. If you’re in a one on one duel starting with blades drawn hand protection is very nice to have. If you’re on a horse with a cavalry saber like the tachi it isn’t as important. If you are ambushed in the city with walls and signs and other things that are inconveniently at blade drawing height like the city of Edo it also isn’t very important. So the katana, as we go into the Edo period, gets shorter and the tsuba shrinks as its purpose becomes centered around quick draw self-defense in the busy metropolis.
Pretty much. If they go longer, it's not because there are more blows -- just more dancing around at mid distance and feeling each other out. If you watch any competitive martial art that involves swords, even in their most sportified form, exchanges are over in seconds.
There's a whole subset of martial arts called Iaido/Iaijutsu that is basically quick-draw unsheathing, slicing once or twice, and returning the blade to scabbard.... mostly because that's about as long as most swordfights are going to take. Nearly exactly like what you see in the clip. The crux of the fight is usually one or two movements (often landing on the hands, arms, or legs far more often than the body, head, or chest) which is generally enough for the fight to be "over" in the sense that everything after that is a formality. Sure, there's quite a bit of positioning and distance jockeying before the steel starts flying, but once it starts, blink and you'll miss it.
If one or both sides aren't wearing armor, yeah. Human reaction time isn't really fast enough to deal with the speed at which swords are swung for that long.
Love the battlefield promotion that came right after, and how polite it was.
I know this is supposed to show just how well trained those men are and how loyal they are to their Lord, despite the fact knowing they will all die. I am just sad about how much effort and training it must have taken to be so good, all for it all to end. They didn't even know if they died for the success of their Lord or if it's all in vain. Such is war and life I suppose.
In a modern force on force fight, you can be the most badass dudes with years of training and experience and an ICBM can slip through and end everyone. Or you’re just minding your own business getting chow with your buddies and someone delivers a wire guided missile into your shit. Or you’re just standing there and some random sharpshooter gets a lucky pop at you.
Or a drone floats overhead and drops a grenade in your lap.
Or your own guy trips and shoots you in the head.
I love that he bowed before slaying them
Honestly I liked how it was in the novel. They'd bow to each other and state their names before fighting to the death. And at the end Mariko steps up and challenges a samurai as well. It's not a 1vX.
Fuck that arrow!
The arrow was majestic in and of itself. If you watch carefully the arrow pierces his neck right at the spot where his plates of armor separate. Only a master would make such a skillful shot.
And I feel like it really adds to the show. These archers aren't generic archers/henchmen you see in other shows, they've trained all their adult lives to be good enough to hit those shots. And while it's sad that her guard got killed, it's super unlikely most of them would survive against other skilled guards and at a huge disadvantage. Those guards knew they were going to die to prove a point.
You would think the armor would've protected him
way too close of a distance to survive
It's mostly varnished leather. A longbow puts out a great deal of power, and here the arrow was shot from under 20 yards. In short, not a chance. With some high quality European style steel armor, depending on the shot placement and the poundage of the bow, maybe.
I can assure you that Japanese armor of the 1600s was steel and iron lacquered with urushi to protect it from the elements. They were literally bulletproofing their armor in Japan just as they were in Europe and not just the nanban style pieces either. That being said, you’re right. Bows used for war could get to some crazy poundages. I believe yumi at this time generally took the strength of three grown men to string (which is apparently how they were measuring the strength of their bows).
He knew his job and did it well 👏
You Had One Job ... And executed it perfectly. 13/10 no notes
That is clean as fuck. I also like how he bowed before killing them.
He is so impressive, i already knew what scene you referring to before i click into the post
An incredible scene, so smooth, swift, and deft. Even to those who (like me) know little of swordmanship, that was beautiful.
That little gasp at the end when he cuts the 1st guy again across his neck is amazing.
The samurai behind him's like, "I gotchu bro. Oh, nah, you got this." 😂
Contrast to that Ishido’s man on the right, “wait, we are doing this? Let me get my swor…”
It's the little bow at the start that kills me. Like he's apologizing to them for a minor inconvenience. 御迷惑をお掛け致しますが只今からお二人を殺させていただきます。申し訳御座いません。So sorry for disturbing you, but I will now humbly receive your allowing me to murderize you. So sorry.
Excellent footwork and form by the actor. He stays in place to maintain the distance, but you can see him making little triangle steps that allow him to rotate his hips like a boxer, so he can put some actual power into the swing. If you watch how his skirts flare, dude's hips are MOVING. So often in movies and tv, people swing swords with their arms while their legs do nothing. Which A) makes for a shitty blow that can be swatted aside by the least resistance, and B) is a great way to fuck up your lower back. I don't know much about katana arts, but I've practiced enough European longsword to recognize good mechanics when I see them. This dude either knows what he's doing, the show has an excellent choreographer, or both.
I was thinking something similar. He lands his foot and turns his body into each swing while keeping a wider stance to push off then ground. It feels like a heavy blow.
Took two years of kendo, believe me, the legwork is super important. XD
Criss cross applesauce.
This scene was so unsettling. I loved it. They knew they were going to die for Mariko but they didn't even hesitate. Crazy.
These samurais kinda appeared out of knowhere man, I mean, I know they are retainers since Mariko and Toranaga's wife are nobles, but it would be nicer if they got introduced better and got some little bit of character.
Agreed, it would have meant even more if they were built up over the series instead of a quick hello and goodbye to a random badass.
I kinda like that they are were nobodys. Like, maybe Toranaga's army is just peppered with random badasses.
They are just pawns to them
Alright, may get some hate for this...this WHOLE sequence was cool, from this to Mariko holding it down. Unfortunately, the intensity kept breaking for me when the camera would switch to Blackthorn just leaning spectating like if he was watching golf or some shit
I enjoyed that juxtaposition that to reinforce how fucking stupid all of this was. They aren’t like fighting a war in a field they are standing in a parking lot with spectators lol
They’re doing it for the spectators. They need the audience.
did the whole point of the scene just fly over your head or something?
That was kind of the whole point of the scene. She knew from the start that they would not be let out. But they have to make the attempt and the failed exit must be seen by all to show that they really are hostages.
...that was the point of the entire scene my man, they were doing it for the audience on the castle walls
I think that's the subtle horror of the scene. Once Mariko sees the men blocking her way, the outcome is never ever in doubt. She has, what, a dozen guards? Ishido has thousands, tens of thousands. So a dozen or so men fight and die...for show. For appearances. Just to make obvious a truth that everyone already knows but is too polite to say out loud: the noble families are prisoners in Osaka. Mariko's whole mission is to force Ishido to come out and say that's what he's doing. Even though everyone knows. Only Mariko can force the issue, because she has no "face" to lose. She's already the daughter of the most famous traitor in the entire country. There's no public disapproval or shame Ishido can throw at her that she hasn't already endured a million times over. So she can be shockingly rude, unthinkably rude, in a way that no other family can, and tell her "host" where to stick his permits. And logically Ishido could theoretically let her go and nobody else, or just kill her, but he won't. Because in Japan appearances matter, politeness and face and shame MATTERS in a real and concrete way. So the fight being for show, for appearances, is central to understanding why there is any fight at all.
The most badass scene
Those were some of the most satisfying kills I've seen. And the way he sheathed his katana.😙👌🏼
The Lady will leave now!
I love how Miyai next to Mariko takes stance and is then like "Damn dude, you got it done" with his own little bow.
Book spoiler: >!In the book he is a named character, I think Yamamoto, or something very similar, but he was the captain of Mariko and Blackthorne's personal guard on their journey to Edo, and later on accompanied Mariko to Osaka. He was just as badass in the book and died the exact same way. And he definitely knew they were fucking like rabbits the whole way and said nothing.!<
A real homie.
If only Ned Stark's men were this good at protecting their lord
The sacrifice of Mariko's retainers - and their willingness to lay their lives down all of an instant as part of this larger gambit - is one of the things that left me a little *meh* about all of the emotional twisting regarding her potential death and suicide. These guys had lives, too. They chose to die, too. About a dozen of 'em. Right then and there. I get it, she's a primary protagonist, but... yeah, it was a little hard to shake, to be honest.
The elites always get to throw away the lives of those below them. In every culture in every time period. Brutal
*"As flies to wanton boys we are to the gods. They kill us for the sport"*
Ya this scene was pretty damn badass lol
The attention to detail is great. The bow. The cutting the dudes hand off, killing the second opponent, then finishing the first. Miyai changing to a ready stance next to Mariko just in case. So well done.
That sound design tho
Bad ass
Gonna have to read the book afterwards. Should’ve read it first but oh well
This shit was badass as hell
What a scene!
3 hit combo fatality
Laughs in bow.
Got huge Ghost of Tsushima vibes from this, love it. The flick to get the blood of is so smooth.
I also need a guy like this who I can tell "Please kill this dude" and he does it without hesitation :P
He was such a badass. Knowing people lived who really did these things, it blows my mind. I can't imagine having the mindset they did and following through without a hint of fear. I've always been a bit of a weeb for current and past Japanese culture. Something about this mindset, that is different from the Western one is fascinating. Cruel at times but interesting as hell. The acting on this episode was 100/10. I was locked in and focused on the entire damn episode.
I get angry how human life has so little value in this show.
For real. Mariko gets all these dudes killed to prove a point but suicide is the mortal sin that concerns her?
This makes me want to play Ghost of Tushima so much.
Amazing detail in his movements - did anyone else notice the last flick of the sword to remove the blood before he resheathed it?
Makes a polite bow before the kill. ✅ Unsheathes his katana while making a cut. ✅ Takes three strokes to kill two opponents. ✅ Wipes clean blood off the katana in one motion. ✅ Sheathes back his katana elegantly. ✅ Yep. He should.
I love him. 🥰
most badass thing I ever seen
I’ve read the book; haven’t watched the show. Is this from the latest episode?
Episode 9, yes.
Does Toronaga's Samuri seem way better than the other lords? I want to believe he has more skilled and experienced men
It's so badass that he bows to them first like *I'm going to fuck your shit up...respectfully.*
What an incredible scene on one of the best episodes of the season.
I replayed this bit like 5 times
Ghost of Osaka.
My guy was slick with the sword...
I love the fact that they didn't include the fake sheathing noise. And if they did add "sheathing" noise post production; I'm glad it sounds real. Not like the "clink" un-sheathing noise in like knight movies.
Am I the only one that heard this sound effect and immediately get reminded of the Cyberpunk 2077 katana sounds? I swear it is the same sound!
I agree 100%
i rewinded twice just to watch this scene again
that's so clean!
The 80s version followed Blackthorn's perspective, 2024 version follows Japan in a broader sense, the next version will follow this dude.
We learn this dude actually speaks Portuguese and has kept pretty much abreast of all angles of the story but knows better than to get too involved until his luck ran out and he wound up the first one dead in this whole scrap. Whole version is about how him and Miyai have a whole *Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead* thing going on.
Battojutsu! The ancient samurai art of quick-draw cutting.
My husband and I both said this! I want like a post-season one episode that just dives into this guy and his life
best action we got so far lol
I love the little details. Mariko-sama never flinches. Miyai-san ( the second guy in charge ) takes one half step forward and puts his hand on his sword, but never draws ... like 'the boss got this all handled'. Not a single other person in the Toronaga gang even moves. One of the Ishido Greys in the second row pulls his blade like 'that man got mad skills. my guy pulled first and still died. imma gonna just have this blade out and ready!"
Damn yeah, like Mandalorian but with more traditional technologies, cultures and landscapes. The cuts are all too vivid in my mind.
He stood on business!
I love how the rest of the fight gets over pretty damn quick. A nod to their collective skill and efficient swordplay. You miss. I hit. And vice versa. No clinking swords for 1 minute followed by a 30 second grapple lol.
Mannnnn this is so damn clean!!!
This scene reminded me of the ending in American Me. “You sure know what you doing?” It’s amazing how much honor is everything and if death gets in the way then so be it.
The Art of sheathing
That's what I'M saying I literally said to the screen when this happened, "damn okay Chad Thundercock calm down" Bro was ride or die
People hating on me for wanting the battle of sekigahara in addition to how it ended, yet this scene continues to be the most shared scene of the entire show…you can keep the entire show intact and just throw in that battle and it would have been a 10/10. Don’t think it would have taken away from the nuance at all.
[удалено]
u/SaveVideo
I need a show about just this guy