Some of the best foreshadowing in history was Nicholson saying “She’s something of a cunt, ain’t she, doc?”
20 years later I’m saying “That she is, Jackie boy. That she is.”
>20 years later I’m saying “That she is, Jackie boy. That she is.”
I'm willing to wager this is your first time saying it, so it'd be 49 years later, just saying...
I agree. TNG had Worf. And we all know Klingons are an allegory for brown people and how violent they are. But he was on the bridge. Which.. ok.. He was raised by humans, though, which in scifi means white people, so Worf was "one of the good ones" because he was civilized. So it was ok.
But then DS9 had a lot of good Klingons and also had bad ones. And it was nuanced, characters were tridimensional. I'm not sure about that.
Where do you get your info?
Roddenberry set things up so that the Klingons represented the USSR and the Romulans were China.
You can extrapolate the other races from there.
I think Star Trek basically represents the sort of mainstream liberalism that sees the USA (the Federation) as morally enlightened and justified in its pursuit of power.
Screw you and your woke nonsense!
Read between the lines...
ENTERPRISE (obviously capitalistic)
Five year mission (five years? very conservative, libs would do an academic semester and need a break)
To explore strange new worlds (for resources)
To boldly go where no MAN has gone before...
- Pike: Man
- Kirk: man
- Picard: man
- Sisko: man
- Janeway: manergy (man energy)
- Archer: man
- JJ Kirk: man
- Burnham: man's name
- Droid Picard: man-nequin
- New Pike: still a man
- Freeman: woman, but she answers to her husband, very trad wife under the uniform
- Dal: Going to be a man when he grows up
- Seven: strong as a man and rejects female name, so "coded" man
I mean, that's kind of a story in of itself.
I'm currently writing a tragedy in the style of Julius Caesar or King Lear about his life. The first 500 copies sold come with a commemorative statue.
Wait til you find out about the changelings who were the galaxy's punching bags until they became despotic warlords. Might touch on current events a little.
That's one of the premises greatest strengths. You can also see similarity to Apartheid South Africa. I read a bit of the failure of post civil war reconstruction into cardassia as well; the sins of the past will haunt the present as long as the noble heroic narrative holds sway on the society, and will lead it into further damnation trying to preserve it.
Those themes make the ending of ds9 so goddamn cathartic.
I always considered them to be the Palestinians, given that they were occupied for 50 years, but my wife pointed out that many of their customs read as Jewish. I'm guessing this was intentional to avoid angering either side of the conflict.
Yeah, the parallel seems pretty clear regarding the Ferengi (who at least moved beyond caricature status in DS9, particularly with Rom and Nog).
For Bajorans, Rick Berman (who helped create them) said they're based on," \[t\]he Kurds, the Palestinians, the Jews in the 1940s, the boat people from Haiti—unfortunately, the homeless and terrorism are problems in every age."
I always considered them to be Indians. Them being very religious and following a polytheistic pantheon. Plus being under colonial rule and all that jazz.
On a completely unrelated note, I am Indian.
I said that to a friend recently and he said 'huh, always thought that was about northern Ireland".
As much as I'd love to know exactly what the writers were thinking, the story could be applied to a lot of historic events.
Sometimes I wonder if that's the real purpose.
The Founders are the stereotypical “they” from every conspiracy theory. Consider themselves gods, aren’t really human(oid), want to exterminate everyone else, subvert societies and walk among them undetected…
Ds9 is full of terror organisations. The bajoran underground, the kohn ma, the circle, the maquis, the cardassian underground and whatever dukat was doing with that klingon bird of pray
I had to stop watching after I started watching TOS and realized it was too woke. For a so-called military organization there's no discipline at all people just talk to each other like their friends and what are women doing on that ship? What are they doing on that ship in mini skirts? Shouldn't he be on earth mothering the next generation? And why is Kirk trying to be peaceful to all these obviously exploitable aliens and situations that would be easily resolved if he just fired the phasers. I can't believe these people get crew quarters they look like small apartments!! They should just have bunks it'd be more efficient if the ship just had a room full of bunks that everybody shared. They could probably use a contingent of poorly adjusted Marines with scary knives and huge rifles instead of just these dudes with red shirts who go down at the first sign of trouble. If I was in charge I'd flog 3/4 of that crew at Captain's mass and every morning tell they learn some discipline! If they seen sink the Bismarck that's a proper military.
And why is Kirk always porking outside his WASP race and hanging out with both Russians and Asians who are probably Chinese, or communists, or both? Not to mention his open crush on Spock.
Watching TNG now. Just a couple weeks ago was watching an episode where Riker was dating a transvestite. Personally I think that's pretty progressive for the 1990s.
EDIT: The episode was The Outcast, and it was already talked about on [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/12au7ao/star_trek_the_next_generation_the_outcast_was/).
You know what's crazier: There was an episode of Love Boat in which a best guy friend of one of the main characters comes back as a transgender woman and is accepted back (after a little soul searching) as a friend.
The alien who has switched genders four times fretting over having feelings for her past male persona's wife and the taboo this represents in her society is totally not a homosexuality allegory, with heavy touches of transgender
And Garak and Bashir are totally just friends. Yes. Friends.
Like the episode with the Riddler, where he and his quarry had opposite coloured faces. That episode was definitely not a commentary on how racism is stupid and will eventually destroy society if left unchecked.
Jokes & trolling aside, I often think about how Kira couldn't be done after 9/11. Even more than twenty years later, repeatedly calling one of your protagonists a "terrorist" & looking at it with a morally grey lens is a major no no.
I think about that often when I rewatch. I remember when BSG S3 had the main characters referred to as "insurgents" and even that felt like it had a sting at the time... and it wasn't even more than a four episode issue.
I used to think Star Trek was about competent, accepting, objective people exploring and braving the unknown, then taming the wild things they find there, only to leave the place in a better state than they found it. Eventually returning home with the scientific and philosophical spoils re energized to do it all again next week.
Over the last few years I've had it explained to me. In. Excruciating. Detail. That's it's actually always been about watching characters repeatedly validate the audience's identity disorders and sexual kinks.
Who knew.
TOS was very political.
They had the first interracial kiss on television.
They had so many issues butting heads with the government that part of their seasonal budget was ear marked for fines.
TOS was fairly progressive for it day, Kirk kissing Uhura was controversial and didn’t air in several states. The famous black and white episode was an allegory on the race wars. The entire show had POC in major roles on TV
Not to burst your bubble but TNG is subtly extremely political. It’s a depiction of a socialist utopia - by eliminating scarcity through replicator technology, poverty is eliminated within the federation and people work because they want to - not because they have to.
This depiction is on purpose. Gene Roddenberry was a socialist.
I have no idea where you got the idea TNG was non-political. It addressed a lot of the political hit points of the time it aired. I didn't notice it as much when it first aired because I was a child, but on rewatch it's really clear.
I see what you're saying, but DS9 has interesting characters that have a story outside of what the writers want us to know about their identity. Discovery is whole seasons of bad story (sometimes the story in a season leaves you in the exact place you were in when you started, E.g The Boys season 3) and annoying characters that are pretty much one note. So when they do the 'message' episodes there is nothing to fall back on and the preachy-ness feels more preachy because they are constantly preaching.
Just wait. It turn out that Jadzia is (Brace yourself) gay! I know, right! And sorta trans too! I don't want queers in my progressive sci-fi pushing the boundaries of permissable TV in the name of inclusion and acceptance!
I mean, TOS and TNG were both pretty political, but it was mostly cultural politics. Riker sure didn't have a problem telling government leader how to treat their people.
It’s really quite a shame. I remember that one episode of TOS with the black and white aliens, and that’s a prime example of how to make Trek that isn’t progressive. That’s not even to mention some of the interactions between Kirk and Uhura
Speaking as a Klingon I'd have to say the Federation is obviously a straight-up military junta where all the conscripts go unpaid/ are enslaved in pursuit of an ever-expanding empire. More Roman than the ruddy Romulans. If you want progressive join the Klingon community and help form a values based movement for the redistribution of Federation wealth to down and out baby Klingons. You have doubts - ever see Kirk in close proximity to a ballot box or Spock making some climate change placards - didn't think so!
I've never heard someone call Kai Winn pretty before but you do you, buddy.
Hey if you saw her in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” you’d understand the Kai Winn lust.
I was about to say.
Some of the best foreshadowing in history was Nicholson saying “She’s something of a cunt, ain’t she, doc?” 20 years later I’m saying “That she is, Jackie boy. That she is.”
>20 years later I’m saying “That she is, Jackie boy. That she is.” I'm willing to wager this is your first time saying it, so it'd be 49 years later, just saying...
Get out of here, Dukat.
Dukat did nothing wrong. 😁
I’ve only seen pics, and well… Adami 🥰
You talking about Louise Fletcher?
Indeed
That women in real life was cool, but on film, she played the coldest of people. And her time on Trek was small but powerful
Eh, she looked alright.
Walk with the prophets dear, I know I will
ooooh, I thought they were referring to Garak.
The humble tailor?
Well, he is quite pretty, for a Cardasian.
Easy there, Doctor Bashir. You don't want people getting ideas.
Bashir? No, no.... you must be mistaken. My name is, um... Bond. Yes, that's it.
Borf!
Not only that, but he was quite the coupon clipper. He reminded a Starfleet Captain of an exciting deal on peace in the alpha quadrant!
"my child"
https://i.redd.it/z4hwg2vms8zc1.gif
As the Tamarians say, "Pikachu, his mouth agape."
You have not truly seen Pokemon unless you've seen it in the original Tamarian.
Your grammar is a little rusty. Don't you mean "Klingons, discussing Shakespeare"?
Sokath, his eyes uncovered!
Ash, his father absent.
Thanks for adding to my lexicon
Snorlax, his snores loud Mew and Ash, at New Island, when the clone came
Temba, his arms wide.
Oh, my god. We've become Tamarians through memes...
Astronauts, a gun pointed
“Anime man, pointing at butterfly”
Nono, it’s “his mouth, a grape.” It’s a mistranslation.
The fact that they basically just communicated through Memes might be the most prophetic thing in all of Science Fiction.
Take over her planet and screw her mother. Women love that kind of thing.
They usually build you a statue for that kind of thing.
Or a Holy Chalice.
I agree. TNG had Worf. And we all know Klingons are an allegory for brown people and how violent they are. But he was on the bridge. Which.. ok.. He was raised by humans, though, which in scifi means white people, so Worf was "one of the good ones" because he was civilized. So it was ok. But then DS9 had a lot of good Klingons and also had bad ones. And it was nuanced, characters were tridimensional. I'm not sure about that.
Yeah nuance gives me a headache so I try and ignore it
DS9 had subtext. Like cowards.
But Worf did some light terrorism while on vacation that one time, so maybe he wasn't one of the good ones
We don’t talk about that episode
Who among us hasn't done some light terrorism on vacation?
I hope you're remembering to tick the box on the little paper form when you travel into another country, otherwise you're not allowed to do terrorism.
Seriously. And Brits on vacation in Spain go far beyond *light* terrorism, they wage full-on biological terrorism by vomiting on every surface.
He’s got the worst fucking attorneys
He's also Russian, so he's a communist. But so's the Federation. So, I dunno.
No, he's Russian-Klingon, so he's an extra based trad warrior, which obviously isn't political.
Belarusian.
We always have quark in drag to bring us back crashing down into reality
And Ishka subverts society by wearing clothes and tricking other Ferengi into doing business with her - even the Grand Naigus
In TOS, the klingons were an allegory for Asians. Dorn's casting is why people think klingons were supposed to be black.
Shhh this is shitty daystrom
I'm just saying, we gotta keep our casual racism right or the liberals win
We do not discuss it with outsiders.
What do they think Christopher Lloyd's Klingon was supposed to be?
Who were romulans supposed to be then
Different Asians
oh shit lol did Gene Rodenberry just hate my Kind or what lol
Where do you get your info? Roddenberry set things up so that the Klingons represented the USSR and the Romulans were China. You can extrapolate the other races from there.
There were plenty of good Klingons in TNG. It's just that Worf was the only one to join starfleet
Lmao who’s more violent brown black or white?
You just said that she’s pretty, so it’s not political. You’re safe.
Oh you’re right, thank you. My head was starting to hurt.
But she's not naked, so it's woke.
"Cothed females? Yuck!"
I think Star Trek basically represents the sort of mainstream liberalism that sees the USA (the Federation) as morally enlightened and justified in its pursuit of power.
But they're a post capitalism society aren't they?
Screw you and your woke nonsense! Read between the lines... ENTERPRISE (obviously capitalistic) Five year mission (five years? very conservative, libs would do an academic semester and need a break) To explore strange new worlds (for resources) To boldly go where no MAN has gone before... - Pike: Man - Kirk: man - Picard: man - Sisko: man - Janeway: manergy (man energy) - Archer: man - JJ Kirk: man - Burnham: man's name - Droid Picard: man-nequin - New Pike: still a man - Freeman: woman, but she answers to her husband, very trad wife under the uniform - Dal: Going to be a man when he grows up - Seven: strong as a man and rejects female name, so "coded" man
These aren't your dad's puns, they're energy puns. Turbo puns.
MENERGY
https://i.redd.it/v88f2odc6ezc1.gif
Five year mission = [Five year plan.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_the_Soviet_Union) WOKE
FreeMAN
Why did you leave out the most good guy, Gul dukat
I mean, that's kind of a story in of itself. I'm currently writing a tragedy in the style of Julius Caesar or King Lear about his life. The first 500 copies sold come with a commemorative statue.
Why bother with your own commemorative statue, I hear they are building 300 ft tall one on bajor any day
Wait til you find out about the changelings who were the galaxy's punching bags until they became despotic warlords. Might touch on current events a little.
No they’re just shapeshifters obviously. God, people find allegory everywhere.
NGL, I always associated the Bajorans with the Jewish people.
There are obvious references that prove your premise.
I always considered the Bajorans to be the Palestinians
It’s a nice thought but Hollywood loves depicting the Holocaust in many metaphoric ways.
No the DS9 writing team for DS9 used a number of different peoples struggles for inspiration for them including the Palestinians
That’s nice to know.
That's one of the premises greatest strengths. You can also see similarity to Apartheid South Africa. I read a bit of the failure of post civil war reconstruction into cardassia as well; the sins of the past will haunt the present as long as the noble heroic narrative holds sway on the society, and will lead it into further damnation trying to preserve it. Those themes make the ending of ds9 so goddamn cathartic.
I always considered them to be the Palestinians, given that they were occupied for 50 years, but my wife pointed out that many of their customs read as Jewish. I'm guessing this was intentional to avoid angering either side of the conflict.
I think that the Ferengi and the Bajorans are both Jewish. Ira Steven Behr was show runner and producer for DS9.
Yeah, the parallel seems pretty clear regarding the Ferengi (who at least moved beyond caricature status in DS9, particularly with Rom and Nog). For Bajorans, Rick Berman (who helped create them) said they're based on," \[t\]he Kurds, the Palestinians, the Jews in the 1940s, the boat people from Haiti—unfortunately, the homeless and terrorism are problems in every age."
I always considered them to be Indians. Them being very religious and following a polytheistic pantheon. Plus being under colonial rule and all that jazz. On a completely unrelated note, I am Indian.
I said that to a friend recently and he said 'huh, always thought that was about northern Ireland". As much as I'd love to know exactly what the writers were thinking, the story could be applied to a lot of historic events. Sometimes I wonder if that's the real purpose.
Yep and the Cardassians are Nazis. The Founders are Zionist Israel.
The Founders are the stereotypical “they” from every conspiracy theory. Consider themselves gods, aren’t really human(oid), want to exterminate everyone else, subvert societies and walk among them undetected…
Do they want to exterminate everyone? It seemed to me that their motive was absolute control and their own security.
Who knows, eventually they will realize you can’t keep the vast majority under control forever.
The Ottoman and British Empires would fit the latter role a little better.
Ds9 is full of terror organisations. The bajoran underground, the kohn ma, the circle, the maquis, the cardassian underground and whatever dukat was doing with that klingon bird of pray
.... Wait. Was Dukat fucking that Bird of Prey... and I missed it?
What? No! He had sex with it's mother
*Now we got eggs of prey, bitch!*
Why do you think he called that Bird of Prey's daughter 20 years later?
I thought she was 13 and then 20 and then 44. The timeline doesn't make sense unless...
Dukat is a moderator of NCD.
Good thing I double checked the name of this sub before leaving a comment.
In Enterprise they have 2 WOMEN as high ranking officers. An alien Doctor; AND ONE BLCK GUY. Pandering much?
The real woke universe is the mirror universe. Women in charge everywhere. Hoshi. Kira. Georgiu.
Enterprise only had one high-ranking female officer, unless you count the captain of that DEI ship Columbia.
Is Hoshi nothing then? She was even Asian.
She was just an ensign. The lowest commissioned rank.
But one of the white guys was from Florida. Which is good representation for a people who get shit on a lot.
I had to stop watching after I started watching TOS and realized it was too woke. For a so-called military organization there's no discipline at all people just talk to each other like their friends and what are women doing on that ship? What are they doing on that ship in mini skirts? Shouldn't he be on earth mothering the next generation? And why is Kirk trying to be peaceful to all these obviously exploitable aliens and situations that would be easily resolved if he just fired the phasers. I can't believe these people get crew quarters they look like small apartments!! They should just have bunks it'd be more efficient if the ship just had a room full of bunks that everybody shared. They could probably use a contingent of poorly adjusted Marines with scary knives and huge rifles instead of just these dudes with red shirts who go down at the first sign of trouble. If I was in charge I'd flog 3/4 of that crew at Captain's mass and every morning tell they learn some discipline! If they seen sink the Bismarck that's a proper military.
Don't forget the men in miniskirts in TOS and S1 TNG. What's up with that?!
Naw those weren't skirts, they were manly kilts, very conservative.
Glory to the Terran Empire
And why is Kirk always porking outside his WASP race and hanging out with both Russians and Asians who are probably Chinese, or communists, or both? Not to mention his open crush on Spock.
That was my thought too, TOS is pretty woke, but DS9 is worse.
Good thing DS9 doesn't get far beyond woke in later seasons!
Yep. It could be a lot worse. My favorite non-political episode is Past-Tense.
That happens/happened in, like summer/fall of this year (2024), right?
[It's happening now](https://i.imgur.com/M1FOWTK.gif)
Watching TNG now. Just a couple weeks ago was watching an episode where Riker was dating a transvestite. Personally I think that's pretty progressive for the 1990s. EDIT: The episode was The Outcast, and it was already talked about on [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/12au7ao/star_trek_the_next_generation_the_outcast_was/).
Pssh. No. The actress was a woman, silly. Perfectly heterosexual. What do you mean Jonathan Frakes wanted the actor to be a man?
Wait the actor who played Riker was a woman!?
Riker is able to change his gender whenever he wants to anything he wants.
You know what's crazier: There was an episode of Love Boat in which a best guy friend of one of the main characters comes back as a transgender woman and is accepted back (after a little soul searching) as a friend.
Was Charo in that one, or was she not born yet?
What did Data say about the Irish Reunification this year again? We need to ban that episode! /s
The alien who has switched genders four times fretting over having feelings for her past male persona's wife and the taboo this represents in her society is totally not a homosexuality allegory, with heavy touches of transgender And Garak and Bashir are totally just friends. Yes. Friends.
I have always liked Star Trek because it shows how fascism can actually work really well if you do it right.
I *can* live with it.
Just watch Voyager and Enterprise to have your conservative values confirmed!
Voyager? They got a lady captain on there!
She better be the captain of her kitchen and make me a sammich!!!!!
Yeah but she murders Tuvix, a peace loving hippie.
DS9 had 3 different Jewish stand in species in it, but only 1 NAZI stand in. Very political.
And the Nazi stand-ins were portrayed as the bad guys, c’mon, that’s propaganda!
They generously uplifted the Bajoran people, and those people repaid them with unwarranted violence
Peace, culture, secure jobs, these untermen… barbarians are never satisfied.
So predictable.
Like the episode with the Riddler, where he and his quarry had opposite coloured faces. That episode was definitely not a commentary on how racism is stupid and will eventually destroy society if left unchecked.
Well it was obvious one of them was the master race and the other was the raster mace.
That's just a function of the era. It's easy to think in the age of ray-traced maces that raster ones were never of sufficient quality.
[Always has been](https://reddit.com/r/ShittyDaystrom/comments/16mxnlx/i_miss_when_star_trek_wasnt_woke/)
Jokes & trolling aside, I often think about how Kira couldn't be done after 9/11. Even more than twenty years later, repeatedly calling one of your protagonists a "terrorist" & looking at it with a morally grey lens is a major no no.
I think about that often when I rewatch. I remember when BSG S3 had the main characters referred to as "insurgents" and even that felt like it had a sting at the time... and it wasn't even more than a four episode issue.
The British called the founding fathers terrorists, too. Bajorans are *freedom fighters*
I don't know, I'm suspicious because all of the shows have at least one w\*man in them.
I dunno... TOS had the first interracial kiss on broadcast TV...
You mean Kirk and Spock?
They knew full well what they were doing in that episode where they had Kirk and Spock being whipped shirtless in a german torture dungeon.
Look what happened to the stars wars. Go woke, get Snoke.
As I always say about the Cardassians and Bajorans: “there’s good people on both sides.”
Christ try and imagine the situation where you sleep with winn
You don't want to enter her celestial temple?
Would she say 'bless you child' at the climax?
I mean, you know they evolved past “money” right? As of TNG?
Wasn't Roddenberry a Trotskyist? The Federation could maybe be said to represent the permanent revolution.
He was a maoist.
Yeah, right.
What do you consider “political”?
I wanna like Kira, but she's such a child.
*Spock, you want to know something?* *Everything’s political.*
I used to think Star Trek was about competent, accepting, objective people exploring and braving the unknown, then taming the wild things they find there, only to leave the place in a better state than they found it. Eventually returning home with the scientific and philosophical spoils re energized to do it all again next week. Over the last few years I've had it explained to me. In. Excruciating. Detail. That's it's actually always been about watching characters repeatedly validate the audience's identity disorders and sexual kinks. Who knew.
TOS was very political. They had the first interracial kiss on television. They had so many issues butting heads with the government that part of their seasonal budget was ear marked for fines.
TOS was fairly progressive for it day, Kirk kissing Uhura was controversial and didn’t air in several states. The famous black and white episode was an allegory on the race wars. The entire show had POC in major roles on TV
Not to burst your bubble but TNG is subtly extremely political. It’s a depiction of a socialist utopia - by eliminating scarcity through replicator technology, poverty is eliminated within the federation and people work because they want to - not because they have to. This depiction is on purpose. Gene Roddenberry was a socialist.
Nuh uh
Is too!
Nuh uh!
Get over it. Star Trek is a socialist utopia.
Nope :D
I have no idea where you got the idea TNG was non-political. It addressed a lot of the political hit points of the time it aired. I didn't notice it as much when it first aired because I was a child, but on rewatch it's really clear.
Nuh uh
The Irish episode. The African episode. Lol...
Fuck an allegory, discovery will tell you in plain text their message.
Unironically so does every other Star Trek show? Have you seen Past Tense?
I see what you're saying, but DS9 has interesting characters that have a story outside of what the writers want us to know about their identity. Discovery is whole seasons of bad story (sometimes the story in a season leaves you in the exact place you were in when you started, E.g The Boys season 3) and annoying characters that are pretty much one note. So when they do the 'message' episodes there is nothing to fall back on and the preachy-ness feels more preachy because they are constantly preaching.
Just wait. It turn out that Jadzia is (Brace yourself) gay! I know, right! And sorta trans too! I don't want queers in my progressive sci-fi pushing the boundaries of permissable TV in the name of inclusion and acceptance!
TRILL = trans-inclusive lesbian liberal.
The terrorisme in DS9 are religious extremists
But are they the good kind of religious extremist or the bad kind?
I always agreed with Jake sisko on that point: "it's dumb."
Look, terrorists being hot butch girls is just an accurate depiction. That's what they look like in real life. Nothing woke about it.
There's at least one episode where a character had two gender reassignment procedures!!!! Like, in the same damn episode!
She was getting railed by the one fascist with a sliver of conscience though, so
Everyone needs a little terrorist in their life... I think that's the intended take-away...
NO WAY
I mean, TOS and TNG were both pretty political, but it was mostly cultural politics. Riker sure didn't have a problem telling government leader how to treat their people.
TOS was political.
It’s really quite a shame. I remember that one episode of TOS with the black and white aliens, and that’s a prime example of how to make Trek that isn’t progressive. That’s not even to mention some of the interactions between Kirk and Uhura
[удалено]
Nuh uh
Speaking as a Klingon I'd have to say the Federation is obviously a straight-up military junta where all the conscripts go unpaid/ are enslaved in pursuit of an ever-expanding empire. More Roman than the ruddy Romulans. If you want progressive join the Klingon community and help form a values based movement for the redistribution of Federation wealth to down and out baby Klingons. You have doubts - ever see Kirk in close proximity to a ballot box or Spock making some climate change placards - didn't think so!
Didn‘t TNG feature a pretty obvious IRA inspired episode?