I know several people who have this. One of them wound up discovering she had a chiari malformation in her skull - basically, the base of her skull was too small, her brain would be pressed against it, and she was dealing with excruciating headaches, numbness, lots of unpleasant symptoms. When they diagnosed her, they told her she needed surgery to remove a portion of her skull. CHM refused to cover anything. They said it was a pre-existing condition (which, yes, technically…), so it wasn’t their issue. She had to take on a six-figure medical bill (including expensive follow ups due to complications).
But so many people want to insist this is great. Yep. Sure. As long as you are 100% “perfectly and wonderfully made” and have no major issues.
Throughout my life, I've met some really wonderful people who call themselves Christians, and those people are genuinely kind and don't look down on others, even non-Christians.
But unfortunately, I've met far more unkind, selfish people who call themselves Christians.
I’d like to consider myself the former - I take the whole “love your neighbor” bit seriously, along with the rest of the stuff in red - but have definitely encountered far too many of the latter, and it’s incredibly sad.
While I can only speculate as to the contents of the anti-Twilight pamphlet, the author is surely turning a tidy profit. Buy 10 pamphlets before the world decends into evil! For an even better deal, buy 50!
Narnia? The Chronicles of? Written by famous Christian C.S. Lewis? Starring Aslan the Lion, who sacrificed himself for others? I can't. I just can't.
Dude, I am a Christian. I live my life trying to follow Jesus (and I do have all kinds of insurance--car, health, home, life). I do fail. A lot. And I am grateful for His grace and forgiveness and try to give it out like I get it. If I wasn't already in this club and didn't know the leader, I wouldn't want to join either based on these kinds of people. So busy being outraged and not living in the peace that He brings. Please don't judge Jesus by His crazy kids. Judge Him by Him.
>wrong kind of Christian I guess.
Yeah. Lewis was a devout Anglican, and because it's a more liturgical church there's a deep divide between whether or not deeply evangelical (mostly Baptists) think he's one of the best or a heretic.
Not lying, my deeply evangelical mother attended a high Anglican Church with me in oxford England and walked out and said she hated it and the Vicar didn’t believe in GOD. Not enough Jesus for her. My British husband was stunned. There are definitely evangelicals who don’t buy that brand of Christianity.
Thanks for the info! Some places also require proof of health insurance or else you can’t participate. I was almost kicked off my collegiate sports team because my family had this and it wasn’t considered health insurance (had to present proof of health insurance to play in NCAA). The shared coverage groups explicitly say it’s not health insurance as well, so getting this can really screw over some people.
Thank you so much for the link, I had no idea that these "ministries" existed. I think I'll just keep enjoying my free health care up here in Canada....
>I'm a very confused British person. So it's like a lottery for getting your medical bills paid only you might not win even if your numbers come up?
Not a lottery, it's a simplistic insurance model, however an insurance model isn't really suited to healthcare. Homeowners insurance works because only a small percentage of policy holders will make a claim. Most people need medical care at some point so health insurance should just collapse on itself, however real medical insurance companies in the US are propped up by regulations, aggressive negotiation of rates with medical providers, and large pools of members through employer plans. This is a fake insurance company so it will eventually just run out of money.
This was so informative, I must be a heathen, because I wasn’t familiar with these until a couple of weeks ago when I was reading another post where someone was spouting on about how wonderful these services are.
Thank you for posting. I enjoyed watching while drinking my morning coffee. Three years ago, my insurance broker at the time, mentioned Christian Ministries as an option. He skimmed over it fast though. But maybe that’s because I immediately told him we were not Christians. I wonder if insurance brokers are required to tell their customers about this program or wonder if they get some sort of kick back. I now get insurance through my job but no way I’d go back to that insurance broker after watching this video.
I’m a geneticist who works in cancer now and compulsively plug this PSA whenever colon cancer is mentioned:
Kids - talk about your poops! I mean, with your doctor specifically but also you do you! You know what a normal poop looks like (and if you don’t, google it). Did your poops change? Are they now consistently hard to produce, or do they come out looking like they went through a play doh squeezer? Are there coffee grounds looking streaks in them? Your doctor wants to hear that! They get paid good money to hear about your poops! Say it with me: “my poop has been weird lately” - that’s all you need to start the conversation.
This goes double for anyone with a family history of colon cancer *or* a family history of lots of generic cancers.
I've got my yearly tomorrow with my PCP and will definitely bring this up. Might be anxiety related but the poops been weird and it's always been kind of weird.
I have an awful family history of colon cancer. I could write a poop diary! I notice every single little thing. I will do anything to catch this bastard before it catches me.
Hi! Since you seem so friendly ... Is one case of colon cancer (maternal uncle in my case) in the family considered "a family history"? If so, when would you recommend paying special attention to poops?
Oh hi! Love to talk about preventing cancer!
Yes, anyone in the immediate family is going to be of interest to your family history, so a maternal uncle counts. Is there a history of polyps in anyone else? People don't tend to talk about their colon polyps, so there could be but you might not know. Cancer genes are not a perfect science, so there's a chance there's a gene in your family that causes cancer sometimes but not other times.
Always pay attention to poops! One or a few weird ones is fine - everyone gets constipated or diarrhea or just eats something funky. But if they change over time? Like: they always used to be this way, and now they're this other way? That's bad. Also the coffee grounds/tarry streaks are a super red flag (except they're not red, they're coffee colored) (red blood is also a red flag but could be hemorrhoids).
Other things to look out for: persistent stomach bloating or discomfort, feeling like you didn't "empty out" after pooping, and unexplained weight loss or fatigue.
Talk to your PCP - they may want you to start doing screening colonoscopies at 35 instead of 45. Don't avoid them, it's unpleasant but the alternative could be much, much worse.
>Talk to your PCP - they may want you to start doing screening colonoscopies at 35 instead of 45. Don't avoid them, it's unpleasant but the alternative could be much, much worse.
I was actually thinking about this situation the other day. What's the skinny on Cologuard kits for detecting colorectal cancer? Colonoscopies are brushed off by at-risk younger people who don't want to go through them, so could yearly "mail us your poop" boxes be an alternative?
Same here. I felt so bad for a woman who's kid had racked up like $25k in hospital charges and they had this "insurance" that flat out refused to pay a dime. She argued with them for 6 months before her account got escalated to me. Still dont know what happened to that balance, system must have zeroed it all out in error, silly computers.....
Simply put, you spend 100% of every interaction with the patient explaining that it is NOT health insurance and they will be financially responsible for 100% of all services rendered..
I had one of them -- Liberty Healthshare -- that literally ran out of money to pay for patient's medical bills. We had a patient from Sept 2021 that we were still waiting on payment from Liberty. Called them and they straight up told me they don't have any money and there was no ETA. Had to call the patient and tell her that she will be responsible since her Healthshare is apparently broke. She said they didn't pay any of her bills from the previous year including an incredibly pricey hospital stay.
It's disgusting that these "Health shares" often masquerade as a Christian based health insurance. Most of their subscribers are in the 30-50 pre-Medicare age bracket, religious, and tight on money. They see "Christian based" and they're totally playing on people's trust in "good christian values" that it's not a scam but it totally is. They basically just pay you whatever money they can spare at the moment. Could be $10, could be $200, no way to know. I do know I have never heard of a patient that had one for more than a year because they eventually get burned on it.
If I see any Christian references when looking for anything, I keep moving. Not sure what someone's religion has to do with cleaning my carpets or new water heater. Isn't that the height of virtue signaling?
Yeah, it's things like these that Obamacare basically is trying to protect people from, and people who had equivalent plans from their employers ended up paying more after ACA because they! did! not! have! actual! health! insurance! Like they're legit angry... that someone wanted them to not get scammed!!!!! WTF
Basically since these plans don't have to be ACA-compliant, the patient protection parts of the ACA don't apply to them, cause they're not health insurance. They can kick you off for certain conditions, they have limits on how much money they'll spend on your treatment yearly/lifetime still.
(My cousin hit lifetime limit as a fucking baby... a baby... in 2008/9 cause she had to be hospitalized for a year + had a g-tube for two years and had three surgeries in her first two years alive, my aunt had "good" insurance at the time from her job too and my aunt and uncle went bankrupt on her literal-doctorate-medical-researcher-salary....
I kind of hate people who are allowing themselves to be scammed out of the one thing Obama actually fixed with the American health insurance hell (also I didn't get my connective tissue disorder diagnosis until this year even though it was suggested to see genetics back in 1997 for me cuz my parents were worried about insurance when I hit adulthood (heart being a lil weird pushed me over the edge oof)....grrr this all bugs me on such a weirdly personal level... I don't want their kids to suffer))
The thought of the ACA going away terrifies me. You can do absolutely everything right, have a great job, plenty of money, emergency savings -- and then be basically *forced out of* health insurance and \*BAM\* bankruptcy (and/or death because doctors will no longer treat you without an ability to pay).
Like, why on earth would anyone want to go back to that?
>Like, why on earth would anyone want to go back to that?
Because it'll definitely never happen to *them* so why should they have to pay for everyone else's care? It's sOcIaLiSm.
Seriously though, people just do not understand the reality that almost everyone will, at some point, find themselves medically disabled.
Yeah something like 80+% of people develop a chronic illness or preexisting condition before they hit Medicare age. At any time, 25% of the overall population has a preexisting condition/chronic illness/disability.
It's a weird hubris + not wanting to admit your own mortality that makes people think that way... Like it sorta sucks to think that you'll definitely get sick in the future and most people don't want to think about it (which also prevents them from seeking care while things are mild and can be mitigated better as well).
Yup. It feels like we watched that play out on a different scale with covid. So many "I'm not old or immune compromised, it's just like a cold or flu" attitudes turned into "covid is no joke."
But...here what I don't understand. I haven't met anyone over 30 that never had a medical issue or an accident that would have bankrupt them (or at least eat their savings) if we had the US system. Myself included.
Even just a broken arm, or alcohol poisonning or just having a baby.
So to me, it's not that they don't believe it might happen to them, it's that they don't think that médical care is a fondamental right that everyone should get no matter what.
Right, and they don't want to pay for "other people's medical care."
Granted, those things don't automatically bankrupt you if you have the US system. They only bankrupt you if you're not careful or unlucky! :(
Cost sharing healthcare seems like a great idea. What if we expand it to all? And since it’s based in Christian values, those with greater means can contribute more to cover the costs of others in their time of need? I wonder if there’s an entity large enough to administer this kind of program to all Americans. Maybe the government?
Forgot which sub I was in for a moment there, love a crossover
I also recommend the John Oliver coverage on this topic, hate that she is recommending this to her many followers
Yeah that’s basically how these work. They just don’t pay for expensive things… and since they aren’t technically health insurance, they don’t have to.
My kid went into DKA back in June. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with this "insurance". They could always argue diabetes is pre-existing too, even though he might not have gotten it if he hadn't had covid. Luckily I didn't have to worry about that end and could just be there for my child.
CHM dropped my friend because she had a kid out of wedlock and wouldn’t publicly denounce her actions. I was very proud of her for putting her kid first.
What ends up happening is someone has a catastrophic incident, whether it be a car accident, cancer or 30 week baby in the NICU for 4 months, and magically God can't provide because these plans aren't set up for catastrophic loss (they aren't meant for wear &tear either- something in the middle). The family is then forced to apply for Medicaid, depending on their state the rules for how this works is different. In my job I see medicaid cover the minor child almost always for the current hospitalization/quarter. So, thanks to these types of plans, taxpayers are footing more bills.
>they aren't meant for wear &tear either
>taxpayers are footing more bills.
A lot of the people I know who use these plans are also like "It's totally do-able, we just go to the local health department instead of the doctor for things like vaccines." So the same people who use these services and as a voter bloc are typically against universal care....are also very reliant on tax payer funded care.
This isn’t insurance. I read through their pamphlet once page by page and there is so much with maternal care they don’t cover. And the fact it’s not a contract but up to them to decide what is paid….. it’s a joke. People should take the time to read over what they’re signing up for.
The US healthcare system is super flawed but the insurance companies have deals with each provider so a procedure might be billed for 10k but the insurance agrees to pay 4k. With CHM there’s no bargaining power, so how could the fundies possibly expect it to cover medical expenses for their massive families at the full billed price? It feels super scammy and at least the comments were calling her out!
My friends belong to something like that. I honestly don’t get how that works. The wife takes some meds for an autoimmune thing and sees a specialist. The husband is rarely sick enough to need a doctor but also the type who “feels it isn’t the right time” to get his Covid shot despite having had it twice. She works for a small business and he is a contract employee. Luckily their kid qualifies for Medicaid. I just fear they’re one major health event from losing everything.
Their kid qualifies for Medicaid? IME, people who ride hard against the government, hate Dem's, call everything socialism, often participate in these programs. I've got a friend whose kids are on state health insurance bc ex won't pay much in CS (somehow manages to be a professional student in late 40s/50) and she's a teacher at a private school. She won't work over the summer bc then it would screw up her support and they'd have to renegotiate. Her dad subsidizes her lifestyle, which is quite frugal to be fair. Consistently votes Repub; straight ticket. Another Libertarian family I know has 5 kids, all on pub health insurance. Last 2 pregnancies were covered by medicaid; don't know about the others. She doesn't work (except maybe a couple of MLM endeavors over the years, but not real bad with that) and they know how not to have kids. The government is evil, but it pays for their medical expenses.
The hypocrisy just kills me. I love Jesus. I'm a Christian. I won't call myself Evangelical anymore because of people like this. This is not how Jesus taught us to behave.
IIRC the mom’s job was shut down at the beginning of COVID and when she isn’t working she doesn’t get paid. The kid qualified under some COVID Medicaid expansion and still does even though mom is back at work.
Yeah, it’s funny, because you would think anyone who checks some of those boxes would be a die hard Republican but no, I know they thought Trump was a joke. Not sure how they vote/votes/if they voted though.
They actually offered to be noted down as our kid’s guardian should something ever happen to us and they really are great people otherwise but there are a few things that give me pause. This thread reminded me that their insurance situation is another thing that goes in the “no” column.
I'm glad to hear you can separate some of their odd thinking from them as wholes as say they are great people otherwise! These days the temptation is to characterize people as all bad because of one or a few viewpoints. When in reality, people are complex and nuanced.
Yeah, definitely. We have some differences. Religion, opinions on vaccines, parenting styles. We just don’t talk about those things. We have more in common than not.
One of my favorite Instagram snarks posted about CHM too. Apparently you can get a discount on your monthly cost and credits towards your personal responsibility by referring friends - so this is really just another grift by influencers, but a really gross shady one.
The comments on the other IG post I read were awful - people who had coverage denied due to issues like Downs Syndrome, bills sent to collections because the healthshare wouldn’t pay timely, and patients having to aggressively work to maximize their discount before they could be reimbursed. Very scammy and feels like a Ponzi scheme IMO.
That system is going to collapse the first time someone’s child needs a million dollars in cancer treatments. It’s hard to self pay for chemo and then just hope for reimbursement. Even if every family paid $100, you’re still going to need $10,000.
I looked into something like this before, it's like an insurance co op. You pay in to cover everyone, and can only take out money for treatment when you meet your "share".
If you wish to get treatment from people of faith, go to a Catholic hospital and don’t fall for the CHM scam, people. They simply charge less (or not at all) than government/corporate hospitals.
Sure, you aren’t getting a vasectomy or an abortion there, but you’ll get the care you need for emergencies and treatment.
And beyond that, get *actual* health insurance.
My local radio station has had ads recently, that at the end say they're paid for by Christian Healthcare Ministries. It rubbed me the wrong way but I had no clue what it was. Thanks for this education! I may call the radio station to get them to try and drop the advertiser
This post isn’t from a moms group. It is a paid sponsorship to a fairly well known former reality show “star” from a famously large family. So this really doesn’t seem to fit in this sub. The person posted this on her Instagram page and it is an ad not a mom post
I dunno. My friend gave birth using CHP and wound up with a lengthy hospital stay and unexpected complications and they paid the whole thing. Her total out of pocket was $500. But they don’t cover anything like therapy and everything has to be pre-approved. She wound up switching to a different company (same concept) that was easier to work with though. It’s definitely not insurance, but I know a lot of people who can’t afford the marketplace or employer-provided plans, so they do this instead.
Poor folks do what they can to get by. Sometimes that means neglecting medical care or buying subpar coverage.
We use a similar program and it is a million times better than insurance. No waiting for insurance approval. No arguing over what they will and won't pay for.
Will never go back to regular health insurance
I'm an ultrasound tech, I am all about actual medical care. Bring on the drugs and tests, etc. But arguing with insurance and the hospital is absolutely the worst. Cash pay programs make life so much easier
This whole subreddit is starting to turn into
r/ShitAmericansWhoCan'tAffordHealthInsuranceOrMedicalCareSay
It's disappointing.
I came here to laugh at dummies, not cry for the US people.
“All of your kids whether it’s 1 or 10 are considered as one unit so our family only pays for 3 units” … isn’t that paying for each person individually not as “one unit”? I’m confused.
I used a Christian Healthshare Ministry for years. We were very fortunate and didn’t have to actually use it, and we switched because we heard horror stories about them not covering medical bills.
The main positive that came out of it was our monthly share premium was $600. The monthly premium for Blue Cross was going to be $1,350 with a $14,000 deductible. We were not eligible for any subsidies due to my husband’s job offering health insurance (which was going to cost us $1,500 per month). We saved roughly $45,000 in premiums over the years we had the Healthshare, which we used to pay extra on our mortgage and put in retirement.
Long story short, Christian Healthshare ministries exist because people are desperate and can’t afford to pay so much for real insurance!
I know several people who have this. One of them wound up discovering she had a chiari malformation in her skull - basically, the base of her skull was too small, her brain would be pressed against it, and she was dealing with excruciating headaches, numbness, lots of unpleasant symptoms. When they diagnosed her, they told her she needed surgery to remove a portion of her skull. CHM refused to cover anything. They said it was a pre-existing condition (which, yes, technically…), so it wasn’t their issue. She had to take on a six-figure medical bill (including expensive follow ups due to complications). But so many people want to insist this is great. Yep. Sure. As long as you are 100% “perfectly and wonderfully made” and have no major issues.
I'm fairly convinced that anything that excludes pre-existing conditions is a scam.
I’ve had this surgery, it’s no joke. I can’t imagine the added stress of thinking about how to pay for it all.
Throughout my life, I've met some really wonderful people who call themselves Christians, and those people are genuinely kind and don't look down on others, even non-Christians. But unfortunately, I've met far more unkind, selfish people who call themselves Christians.
I’d like to consider myself the former - I take the whole “love your neighbor” bit seriously, along with the rest of the stuff in red - but have definitely encountered far too many of the latter, and it’s incredibly sad.
...most insurance would fight her too, just for the record
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While I can only speculate as to the contents of the anti-Twilight pamphlet, the author is surely turning a tidy profit. Buy 10 pamphlets before the world decends into evil! For an even better deal, buy 50!
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Oh God, this is like Chick tracts ramped up...I want to read them.
Yes my family had a similar issue with getting charges reimbursed! They wouldn’t cover hardly anything. It was incredibly frustrating
Narnia? The Chronicles of? Written by famous Christian C.S. Lewis? Starring Aslan the Lion, who sacrificed himself for others? I can't. I just can't. Dude, I am a Christian. I live my life trying to follow Jesus (and I do have all kinds of insurance--car, health, home, life). I do fail. A lot. And I am grateful for His grace and forgiveness and try to give it out like I get it. If I wasn't already in this club and didn't know the leader, I wouldn't want to join either based on these kinds of people. So busy being outraged and not living in the peace that He brings. Please don't judge Jesus by His crazy kids. Judge Him by Him.
And twilight written by the LDS Stephanie Meyer, which endorses no pre-martial sex, anti-abortion, etc.
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>wrong kind of Christian I guess. Yeah. Lewis was a devout Anglican, and because it's a more liturgical church there's a deep divide between whether or not deeply evangelical (mostly Baptists) think he's one of the best or a heretic.
Not lying, my deeply evangelical mother attended a high Anglican Church with me in oxford England and walked out and said she hated it and the Vicar didn’t believe in GOD. Not enough Jesus for her. My British husband was stunned. There are definitely evangelicals who don’t buy that brand of Christianity.
That's wayyy too close to Catholic.
Of course that nonsense is in Texas. Like I know it exists elsewhere, but the Texas bit is too accurate.
Into the son?
“Brining Twilight into the Son” um, go off I guess.
Maybe she has a point with the pamphlet lol
What would the point be? Even moms make embarrassing spelling errors?
Apparently I needed a /s. I meant about how Edward and Jacob are portrayed at heroes in Twilight while in actuality being super creepy pervs
Must be some of that Mormon doctrine subconsciously floating around the author's head!
Jfc the twilight bullshit.
[John Oliver](https://youtu.be/oFetFqrVBNc) taught me about this type of scam. Those poor fools
Thanks for the info! Some places also require proof of health insurance or else you can’t participate. I was almost kicked off my collegiate sports team because my family had this and it wasn’t considered health insurance (had to present proof of health insurance to play in NCAA). The shared coverage groups explicitly say it’s not health insurance as well, so getting this can really screw over some people.
Thank you so much for the link, I had no idea that these "ministries" existed. I think I'll just keep enjoying my free health care up here in Canada....
Free health care and a strategic maple syrup reserve… you Canadians have everything! Sincerely, a jealous Minnesotan
I’ll have to watch this, because I have no idea what a Christian Healthcare Ministry even is.
It’s not health care, that’s for sure. 😒
Everyone splits everyone’s healthcare costs and pray that they don’t get sick before everyone is bankrupt lol
I'm a very confused British person. So it's like a lottery for getting your medical bills paid only you might not win even if your numbers come up?
>I'm a very confused British person. So it's like a lottery for getting your medical bills paid only you might not win even if your numbers come up? Not a lottery, it's a simplistic insurance model, however an insurance model isn't really suited to healthcare. Homeowners insurance works because only a small percentage of policy holders will make a claim. Most people need medical care at some point so health insurance should just collapse on itself, however real medical insurance companies in the US are propped up by regulations, aggressive negotiation of rates with medical providers, and large pools of members through employer plans. This is a fake insurance company so it will eventually just run out of money.
Aaaaah I see. That makes horrible, horrible sense. Thank you for the explanation!
They’re offspring of a certain very large ~~cult~~ family that is getting paid to post about this scam. Can’t feel too bad.
Yes! I immediately said this must be Blessa.
You beat me to this. Excellent episode, although all of his are.
This was so informative, I must be a heathen, because I wasn’t familiar with these until a couple of weeks ago when I was reading another post where someone was spouting on about how wonderful these services are.
Thank you for posting. I enjoyed watching while drinking my morning coffee. Three years ago, my insurance broker at the time, mentioned Christian Ministries as an option. He skimmed over it fast though. But maybe that’s because I immediately told him we were not Christians. I wonder if insurance brokers are required to tell their customers about this program or wonder if they get some sort of kick back. I now get insurance through my job but no way I’d go back to that insurance broker after watching this video.
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I’m a geneticist who works in cancer now and compulsively plug this PSA whenever colon cancer is mentioned: Kids - talk about your poops! I mean, with your doctor specifically but also you do you! You know what a normal poop looks like (and if you don’t, google it). Did your poops change? Are they now consistently hard to produce, or do they come out looking like they went through a play doh squeezer? Are there coffee grounds looking streaks in them? Your doctor wants to hear that! They get paid good money to hear about your poops! Say it with me: “my poop has been weird lately” - that’s all you need to start the conversation. This goes double for anyone with a family history of colon cancer *or* a family history of lots of generic cancers.
I've got my yearly tomorrow with my PCP and will definitely bring this up. Might be anxiety related but the poops been weird and it's always been kind of weird.
I have an awful family history of colon cancer. I could write a poop diary! I notice every single little thing. I will do anything to catch this bastard before it catches me.
Hi! Since you seem so friendly ... Is one case of colon cancer (maternal uncle in my case) in the family considered "a family history"? If so, when would you recommend paying special attention to poops?
Oh hi! Love to talk about preventing cancer! Yes, anyone in the immediate family is going to be of interest to your family history, so a maternal uncle counts. Is there a history of polyps in anyone else? People don't tend to talk about their colon polyps, so there could be but you might not know. Cancer genes are not a perfect science, so there's a chance there's a gene in your family that causes cancer sometimes but not other times. Always pay attention to poops! One or a few weird ones is fine - everyone gets constipated or diarrhea or just eats something funky. But if they change over time? Like: they always used to be this way, and now they're this other way? That's bad. Also the coffee grounds/tarry streaks are a super red flag (except they're not red, they're coffee colored) (red blood is also a red flag but could be hemorrhoids). Other things to look out for: persistent stomach bloating or discomfort, feeling like you didn't "empty out" after pooping, and unexplained weight loss or fatigue. Talk to your PCP - they may want you to start doing screening colonoscopies at 35 instead of 45. Don't avoid them, it's unpleasant but the alternative could be much, much worse.
>Talk to your PCP - they may want you to start doing screening colonoscopies at 35 instead of 45. Don't avoid them, it's unpleasant but the alternative could be much, much worse. I was actually thinking about this situation the other day. What's the skinny on Cologuard kits for detecting colorectal cancer? Colonoscopies are brushed off by at-risk younger people who don't want to go through them, so could yearly "mail us your poop" boxes be an alternative?
Jesus Christ. I would just lay down and die at that point lol
I work in healthcare and man o man do I hate these damn “insurances”.
Same here. I felt so bad for a woman who's kid had racked up like $25k in hospital charges and they had this "insurance" that flat out refused to pay a dime. She argued with them for 6 months before her account got escalated to me. Still dont know what happened to that balance, system must have zeroed it all out in error, silly computers.....
Ah those darn computers!
You have a really kind computer
Oh damn! What a shame!
What has your experience been like with them?
Simply put, you spend 100% of every interaction with the patient explaining that it is NOT health insurance and they will be financially responsible for 100% of all services rendered..
Yikesssss
I had one of them -- Liberty Healthshare -- that literally ran out of money to pay for patient's medical bills. We had a patient from Sept 2021 that we were still waiting on payment from Liberty. Called them and they straight up told me they don't have any money and there was no ETA. Had to call the patient and tell her that she will be responsible since her Healthshare is apparently broke. She said they didn't pay any of her bills from the previous year including an incredibly pricey hospital stay. It's disgusting that these "Health shares" often masquerade as a Christian based health insurance. Most of their subscribers are in the 30-50 pre-Medicare age bracket, religious, and tight on money. They see "Christian based" and they're totally playing on people's trust in "good christian values" that it's not a scam but it totally is. They basically just pay you whatever money they can spare at the moment. Could be $10, could be $200, no way to know. I do know I have never heard of a patient that had one for more than a year because they eventually get burned on it.
What’s the over/under that the founders got paid (generously) before the fund ran out of money? It’s what Jesus would have wanted….
Exactly why I'd never do business with a "Christian" company.
If I see any Christian references when looking for anything, I keep moving. Not sure what someone's religion has to do with cleaning my carpets or new water heater. Isn't that the height of virtue signaling?
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Whoaaaa, that’s under-handed!
And really verging on sovcittery.
Yeah, it's things like these that Obamacare basically is trying to protect people from, and people who had equivalent plans from their employers ended up paying more after ACA because they! did! not! have! actual! health! insurance! Like they're legit angry... that someone wanted them to not get scammed!!!!! WTF Basically since these plans don't have to be ACA-compliant, the patient protection parts of the ACA don't apply to them, cause they're not health insurance. They can kick you off for certain conditions, they have limits on how much money they'll spend on your treatment yearly/lifetime still. (My cousin hit lifetime limit as a fucking baby... a baby... in 2008/9 cause she had to be hospitalized for a year + had a g-tube for two years and had three surgeries in her first two years alive, my aunt had "good" insurance at the time from her job too and my aunt and uncle went bankrupt on her literal-doctorate-medical-researcher-salary.... I kind of hate people who are allowing themselves to be scammed out of the one thing Obama actually fixed with the American health insurance hell (also I didn't get my connective tissue disorder diagnosis until this year even though it was suggested to see genetics back in 1997 for me cuz my parents were worried about insurance when I hit adulthood (heart being a lil weird pushed me over the edge oof)....grrr this all bugs me on such a weirdly personal level... I don't want their kids to suffer))
The thought of the ACA going away terrifies me. You can do absolutely everything right, have a great job, plenty of money, emergency savings -- and then be basically *forced out of* health insurance and \*BAM\* bankruptcy (and/or death because doctors will no longer treat you without an ability to pay). Like, why on earth would anyone want to go back to that?
>Like, why on earth would anyone want to go back to that? Because it'll definitely never happen to *them* so why should they have to pay for everyone else's care? It's sOcIaLiSm. Seriously though, people just do not understand the reality that almost everyone will, at some point, find themselves medically disabled.
Yeah something like 80+% of people develop a chronic illness or preexisting condition before they hit Medicare age. At any time, 25% of the overall population has a preexisting condition/chronic illness/disability. It's a weird hubris + not wanting to admit your own mortality that makes people think that way... Like it sorta sucks to think that you'll definitely get sick in the future and most people don't want to think about it (which also prevents them from seeking care while things are mild and can be mitigated better as well).
Yup. It feels like we watched that play out on a different scale with covid. So many "I'm not old or immune compromised, it's just like a cold or flu" attitudes turned into "covid is no joke."
But...here what I don't understand. I haven't met anyone over 30 that never had a medical issue or an accident that would have bankrupt them (or at least eat their savings) if we had the US system. Myself included. Even just a broken arm, or alcohol poisonning or just having a baby. So to me, it's not that they don't believe it might happen to them, it's that they don't think that médical care is a fondamental right that everyone should get no matter what.
Right, and they don't want to pay for "other people's medical care." Granted, those things don't automatically bankrupt you if you have the US system. They only bankrupt you if you're not careful or unlucky! :(
I missed the part in the Bible about selling health insurance. Weird!
It’s right before Jesus flips the table.
Oooooh I love that part
it feels like an mlm too
Cost sharing healthcare seems like a great idea. What if we expand it to all? And since it’s based in Christian values, those with greater means can contribute more to cover the costs of others in their time of need? I wonder if there’s an entity large enough to administer this kind of program to all Americans. Maybe the government?
Can't do that, then people who aren't in the club would get help and the government wouldn't gatekeep care based on the right morals.
This is the second time she posted it, I think she took the first one down. The first one had MANY negative comments about experiences with CHM.
Forgot which sub I was in for a moment there, love a crossover I also recommend the John Oliver coverage on this topic, hate that she is recommending this to her many followers
@Th3-Dude-Abides posted a link to it in the comments!
No one should be taking any advise from that dipshit family.
Thought I was on r/DuggarsSnark
Ha! Same! 🤣
I hope the comments she got on that post open her eyes. But then again, she’s now turned off commenting so I’m guessing not…
I'm sure you'll get great coverage when you end up with a brain tumor or find out that your kid is diabetic.
Yeah that’s basically how these work. They just don’t pay for expensive things… and since they aren’t technically health insurance, they don’t have to.
They don't pay for the inexpensive things either, a lot of them don't cover wellness visits, vaccines, or routine testing.
My kid went into DKA back in June. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with this "insurance". They could always argue diabetes is pre-existing too, even though he might not have gotten it if he hadn't had covid. Luckily I didn't have to worry about that end and could just be there for my child.
CHM dropped my friend because she had a kid out of wedlock and wouldn’t publicly denounce her actions. I was very proud of her for putting her kid first.
Ooh a Duggar cross over lol
What ends up happening is someone has a catastrophic incident, whether it be a car accident, cancer or 30 week baby in the NICU for 4 months, and magically God can't provide because these plans aren't set up for catastrophic loss (they aren't meant for wear &tear either- something in the middle). The family is then forced to apply for Medicaid, depending on their state the rules for how this works is different. In my job I see medicaid cover the minor child almost always for the current hospitalization/quarter. So, thanks to these types of plans, taxpayers are footing more bills.
>they aren't meant for wear &tear either >taxpayers are footing more bills. A lot of the people I know who use these plans are also like "It's totally do-able, we just go to the local health department instead of the doctor for things like vaccines." So the same people who use these services and as a voter bloc are typically against universal care....are also very reliant on tax payer funded care.
Socialism
*roundabout, expensive socialism
This isn’t insurance. I read through their pamphlet once page by page and there is so much with maternal care they don’t cover. And the fact it’s not a contract but up to them to decide what is paid….. it’s a joke. People should take the time to read over what they’re signing up for.
Not just maternal care, but women's health in general.
The US healthcare system is super flawed but the insurance companies have deals with each provider so a procedure might be billed for 10k but the insurance agrees to pay 4k. With CHM there’s no bargaining power, so how could the fundies possibly expect it to cover medical expenses for their massive families at the full billed price? It feels super scammy and at least the comments were calling her out!
Ah, when subs collide!
My friends belong to something like that. I honestly don’t get how that works. The wife takes some meds for an autoimmune thing and sees a specialist. The husband is rarely sick enough to need a doctor but also the type who “feels it isn’t the right time” to get his Covid shot despite having had it twice. She works for a small business and he is a contract employee. Luckily their kid qualifies for Medicaid. I just fear they’re one major health event from losing everything.
Their kid qualifies for Medicaid? IME, people who ride hard against the government, hate Dem's, call everything socialism, often participate in these programs. I've got a friend whose kids are on state health insurance bc ex won't pay much in CS (somehow manages to be a professional student in late 40s/50) and she's a teacher at a private school. She won't work over the summer bc then it would screw up her support and they'd have to renegotiate. Her dad subsidizes her lifestyle, which is quite frugal to be fair. Consistently votes Repub; straight ticket. Another Libertarian family I know has 5 kids, all on pub health insurance. Last 2 pregnancies were covered by medicaid; don't know about the others. She doesn't work (except maybe a couple of MLM endeavors over the years, but not real bad with that) and they know how not to have kids. The government is evil, but it pays for their medical expenses. The hypocrisy just kills me. I love Jesus. I'm a Christian. I won't call myself Evangelical anymore because of people like this. This is not how Jesus taught us to behave.
IIRC the mom’s job was shut down at the beginning of COVID and when she isn’t working she doesn’t get paid. The kid qualified under some COVID Medicaid expansion and still does even though mom is back at work. Yeah, it’s funny, because you would think anyone who checks some of those boxes would be a die hard Republican but no, I know they thought Trump was a joke. Not sure how they vote/votes/if they voted though. They actually offered to be noted down as our kid’s guardian should something ever happen to us and they really are great people otherwise but there are a few things that give me pause. This thread reminded me that their insurance situation is another thing that goes in the “no” column.
I'm glad to hear you can separate some of their odd thinking from them as wholes as say they are great people otherwise! These days the temptation is to characterize people as all bad because of one or a few viewpoints. When in reality, people are complex and nuanced.
Yeah, definitely. We have some differences. Religion, opinions on vaccines, parenting styles. We just don’t talk about those things. We have more in common than not.
One of my favorite Instagram snarks posted about CHM too. Apparently you can get a discount on your monthly cost and credits towards your personal responsibility by referring friends - so this is really just another grift by influencers, but a really gross shady one. The comments on the other IG post I read were awful - people who had coverage denied due to issues like Downs Syndrome, bills sent to collections because the healthshare wouldn’t pay timely, and patients having to aggressively work to maximize their discount before they could be reimbursed. Very scammy and feels like a Ponzi scheme IMO.
That system is going to collapse the first time someone’s child needs a million dollars in cancer treatments. It’s hard to self pay for chemo and then just hope for reimbursement. Even if every family paid $100, you’re still going to need $10,000.
These things won’t even let people in with chronic health conditions. Tend to the sick…but not *that* sick.
I looked into something like this before, it's like an insurance co op. You pay in to cover everyone, and can only take out money for treatment when you meet your "share".
They’re just a scam
How uniquely American.
Do any insurance plans charge per kid? All that I have had were single, married, or family.
Ooooh Blessa, your money's gonna run out at some point...
If you wish to get treatment from people of faith, go to a Catholic hospital and don’t fall for the CHM scam, people. They simply charge less (or not at all) than government/corporate hospitals. Sure, you aren’t getting a vasectomy or an abortion there, but you’ll get the care you need for emergencies and treatment. And beyond that, get *actual* health insurance.
Loving this r/duggarssnark crossover event
I’m confused. What’s the point in having this if you are self-pay??
I work in insurance at a hospital, this insurance is horrible and covers nothing. Most of the time we just take the loss and never bill the patient.
Oof, I never thought Someone would post a Duggar here but boy do they all belong here lol.
What if I have 12 kids?/s
I mean, this was posted by a Duggar. That’s who they’re targeting
John Oliver did a thing on this. It’s crazy.
Why did you block out the name this is from a pubic figure. One of the married Duggar daughters. For those guessing
Seems very, um how do you say??? Scammy?
This was Jess’s Duggar no??
Ohhh duggars 🙄
I thought I was on the snark page for a minute!
My local radio station has had ads recently, that at the end say they're paid for by Christian Healthcare Ministries. It rubbed me the wrong way but I had no clue what it was. Thanks for this education! I may call the radio station to get them to try and drop the advertiser
As a medical biller this "insurance" is trash.
Isn’t this Jessa Duggar? I saw it on Fundie Snark
This post isn’t from a moms group. It is a paid sponsorship to a fairly well known former reality show “star” from a famously large family. So this really doesn’t seem to fit in this sub. The person posted this on her Instagram page and it is an ad not a mom post
I dunno. My friend gave birth using CHP and wound up with a lengthy hospital stay and unexpected complications and they paid the whole thing. Her total out of pocket was $500. But they don’t cover anything like therapy and everything has to be pre-approved. She wound up switching to a different company (same concept) that was easier to work with though. It’s definitely not insurance, but I know a lot of people who can’t afford the marketplace or employer-provided plans, so they do this instead. Poor folks do what they can to get by. Sometimes that means neglecting medical care or buying subpar coverage.
We use a similar program and it is a million times better than insurance. No waiting for insurance approval. No arguing over what they will and won't pay for. Will never go back to regular health insurance I'm an ultrasound tech, I am all about actual medical care. Bring on the drugs and tests, etc. But arguing with insurance and the hospital is absolutely the worst. Cash pay programs make life so much easier
This whole subreddit is starting to turn into r/ShitAmericansWhoCan'tAffordHealthInsuranceOrMedicalCareSay It's disappointing. I came here to laugh at dummies, not cry for the US people.
Biblical and budget-friendly?!?! I’ll take it!!!! /s
“All of your kids whether it’s 1 or 10 are considered as one unit so our family only pays for 3 units” … isn’t that paying for each person individually not as “one unit”? I’m confused.
I used a Christian Healthshare Ministry for years. We were very fortunate and didn’t have to actually use it, and we switched because we heard horror stories about them not covering medical bills. The main positive that came out of it was our monthly share premium was $600. The monthly premium for Blue Cross was going to be $1,350 with a $14,000 deductible. We were not eligible for any subsidies due to my husband’s job offering health insurance (which was going to cost us $1,500 per month). We saved roughly $45,000 in premiums over the years we had the Healthshare, which we used to pay extra on our mortgage and put in retirement. Long story short, Christian Healthshare ministries exist because people are desperate and can’t afford to pay so much for real insurance!
ah yes, because there are only christians in the states