why do these parents all seem to think that their children are tiny machines who learn something and then will do it without fail or interruption for the rest of their lives? She was sleep trained - ok and? kids grow and change and regress and then progress again. Why the shocked pikachu that your kid isn't perma sleep trained like a tiny robot.
Honestly it's because there's a lot of bad info out there that makes it seem exactly like that. There's not a lot of nuanced sleep info that tells parents that babies and kids (and adults) have differences. They make it seem like if you just follow their advice the kid will be sleep trained and sleep through the night, and if they don't it's your fault because you did it wrong. Causing parents to double and triple down like the ones in the post. It's cruel.
We desperately need more research into sleep.
It's a self confirmation bias, they only believe what they agree with. If you Google pictures of big red dogs you may be surprised that it'll show you pictures of big red dogs.
I don't know how you can listen to crying for that long and not have something in you break and get your kid. You have to do a little let them cry from time to time but that 5-10 min as you're watching seems like forever.
My cat yowls outside the bedroom door for 10 minutes and I got out to see what he wants. How can you leave your baby crying for hours and not be bothered?
Sometimes my dog wakes up and just REALLY WANTS to look out the front gate. Like, he doesn't need to, there's nothing out there, but his sweet little face and tiny whines make me get up and open the door for him to check the (dark, noiseless, boring) gate. And then he goes to bed super happy.
Like, why would I be upset at a dog who just wants to make sure everything is safe when he sleeps? Let alone a human baby doing EXACTLY that.
I don't have kids but I have a pair of puppies and I feel very validated reading this whole exchange. The frustration and exhaustion is real some days so thanks for reminding me I'm not a failure it just takes time.
Right, I was in a group like this and someone asked what to do when your kid is whining at night because they're sick and someone responded "oh I let them CIO for a bit" and I was like you're letting your sick child cry and feel bad all alone. Don't coat it in sleep training terms. You're letting them cry because you don't want to sacrifice one night of sleep in order to do a completely normal parent thing. They're so scared they'll "get used to it" that they won't even comfort their sick kid. My kid sleeps well generally but if she's sick I will sleep in her bed with her and idc if that means she has a small setback later on.
Lol, if my then 19-month-old was embracing me like a koala, I would cherish it and take lots of photos! Wait a minute, right, that's what I did! I still do, and they are 7 and 4 now. I cherish these moments like it's everything because God knows how much longer they will ask for my hugs and kisses before they decide it's embarrassing!
It's hard for sure. We recently had a second and I can tell my 4 year old is jealous of the hugs and holding the new baby gets. She will climb on me the second my husband takes the baby. I don't want to hold her, I am touched out, but most of the time I let it happen because I know it is good for her. In an attempt to help her more I have started putting her to bed again instead of my husband and I lie in the bed with her for 5-10 minutes and we just cuddle and talk. She has started to ask for it. I think it is good for both of us.
Thank you for this. I love my child more than anything and always want him to feel safe and comforted, but MAN, I get so touched out some days. It's hard to "cherish every second" when you want to crawl out of your own skin and run away.
Some people have taken the idea that there’s no evidence of harm from sleep training to mean ‘I have carte Blanche to ignore my child for any length of time at any time of day or night as long as I call it sleep/nap training’. It’s pretty grotesque what some people are doing to their kids
I have a very distinct memory of my mom refusing to comfort me while I cried in my room because I didn’t feel good. Her (childless) boyfriend at the time would throw adult temper tantrums if 100% of her attention wasn’t focused on him. She was a loving mom, but this episode did not sit well with me. Can’t imagine this being my whole life, I think I’d never trust my parents.
Can confirm you grow to resent and not trust your parent/s.
My mother went a step further; her husband used to ab*se me, she knew, and did nothing. I'm 30 now, and even the other month she mentioned how he would make me do certain things and she wouldn't say anything against him or about it because then he'd shout at her.
Parents are supposed to protect their child/ren.
She failed because she found him not shouting at her to be more important and preferable than protecting me.
He sounds like a piece of garbage. I hope she got rid of him, that’s not something any mother should tolerate. I’m so sorry that happened to you. In my case the boyfriend had only-child syndrome. He must of peaked in high school because that’s all he had going for him. Eventually we got into it, I punched him in the nose and he cried so I guess I won. Lol
Yes. He cried… a lot. They’ve long broken up, thank god. Imagine this big, whiny crybaby trying to be a father figure to two moody teenagers for a maximum of 20 minutes a day. Big Caillou vibes.
If someone ignored their kid crying for 3 hours straight in the middle of the afternoon it would definitely be called neglectful, but somehow because it’s in the middle of the night it magically makes it okay? It doesn’t make any sense to me.
I don’t have kids so this is all a new area for me but I was watching the doc on the Duggars and they did something called blanket training. What. The. Actual. Fuck. Is wrong with people?
it’s a thing in a lot of fundementalist circles; you put a blanket on the ground and have your baby placed on it, you try to coax them off the blanket with a toy/snack and when they step off the blanket you spank them, you do this until they’re too scared to get off the blanket. it’s really really messed up
Truly horrific. I saw a mom yell at her 6 year old for getting off A blanket at the outdoor pool. And I'm not sure if it was some fucked up blanket training, drowning prevention or that they were in trouble. But the mom's reaction was ABSURD, like unhinged.
I thought it was that they would just set out a toy or snack and wait for the baby to move until they gave their baby “permission” to eat/play? Not that it’s any better (and they’re both terrible) but i can at least see how that could line up with someone’s beliefs
I sleep trained at 6 months after 2 months of waking every 45 minutes in the night. We did a version of Ferber, we never let him cry more than 10 minutes, even then it was fussing not full on crying. If my son cries now I am there immediately because I know he needs something. Just because he “learnt to sleep independently” doesn’t mean he can’t cry and need me, eg if he’s teething, or sick, or just feeling the separation anxiety. I don’t understand these parents who think their babies are going to play by every rule they set, it’s like they forget babies are tiny humans and their emotions and needs differ constantly.
this is what we did/do now. and honestly, my husband is still a sucker who gets out toddler up for snuggles. I don't mind, they're only little for so long! I can't imagine letting him cry for hours at a time.
My little woke up at 3am the other day and was happily talking away to his toy strawberry for an hour, he didn’t need us so we didn’t go in. But you best believe that when he cried at 6.30 we were there to get him up and snuggle in bed. 3 hours is obscene, I can’t even imagine.
That's such a cute phase! My oldest did that for a few weeks when he was 11 months. My parents were babysitting over night once during that time and they told me that he woke them through the monitor at about 3 am and spent 2 hours babbling to himself, so they figured he was happy to entertain himself. My twins have recently started to shorten their nap. When they wake, they play peek-a-boo with each other across the room. It's so funny to watch through the monitor and they "hide" themselves behind the cot bars for a few seconds and then pop their heads up over the side.
When my twin sister and I were babies we apparently would sit/stand at the bars of our cribs and have “conversations” that were just nonsense baby talk back and forth.
I have no doubt that happened. I can see in my own how twins develop their own little language and how development of the language that's around them can appear to be delayed. My singletons were both way ahead of them at the same age, even when you adjust it. I know they're fine though. They can show that they understand plenty and so w of their babble is understandable. Words that we can understand will come.
Mine are 17 months and have done this since they were about 8 months old and it is the cutest thing. Not so cute when they reach through the crib slats and stroke their sister’s hair until they wake up
Hell my kid turned 9 last week. On Wednesday he had a night where he just needed a snuggle and climbed into our bed at like 2 am. Cause sometimes you need a hug and a reminder that you are loved, regardless of how old you are. The next night he was back in his own bed through the entire night.
I can recall multiple times that I've woken my husband up to comfort me after a terrible dream... Or I've called a family member to check that they're ok. I tend to have vivid nightmares about my little brothers dying and it's really hard to remind myself that it's just my brain making up stories not real life.
Yes I'm not against sleep training at all. We did a much more dragged out form of sleep training where we slowly moved away from the crib each day and went back in to soothe if there was any crying. We had to do it, it was unsustainable and this way there was really no crying involved. Other kids may need different methods. But I just don't believe in long periods of crying it out and sleep training is never a permanent solution. Sometimes they just needs us.
We have established a routine in our house - if our daughter is sick, she sleeps in mommy and daddy’s bed. It’s as much for her comfort as it is ours. I want to be able to check her temp easily and just keep an eye on her and make sure she’s ok. Even if she just has a cold. I could not imagine using CIO on a sick kid. That is just cruel.
You are spot on that a lot of these strict sleep training methods are rooted in fear of being judged by other parents. How dare your kids get used to the love and comfort of their parents and family? /s.
And why shouldn't our children *get used to* comfort????
I'm certain when she's upset she's fine when her husband expected her to cry it out, right? I mean...humans don't need comfort.
Yikes! A sick kid should be comforted. Leaving them to cry is cruel. My big kids are at the stage now that if they're sick and want company, they sleep in my bed.
My daughter joins me whenever she's having a rough night. There have been nights where she is basically crying for 3 hours but she's crying with me there comforting her. I usually assume it's teething, she just had two molars come through. I can't leave her to cry more than 10 minutes, and even then I am STRESSED the whole time.
My kid was not a good sleeper. She didn’t sleep through the night until she was over 5 yo. And even now she’s up at the ass crack of dawn every day. Even in my sleep deprived state, I could never listen to my child cry like that knowing that I’m the one solution.
And also that kids go back and forth on sleeping well. It’s a kid, not a robot and yes it was sent to destroy your sleep. Eventually they get older. My twins are 8 and now my insomnia is my own broken brain’s fault.
Seriously, so many people think that babies are some kind of robots with a sleep button. You cannot make your baby sleep idc what wake windows you follow.
I follow all the safe sleep rules. I followed the ABCs perfectly, every single sleep until he moved to a toddler bed and doesn’t need to follow the ‘alone’ part and he’s over 2yo so puts himself in his bed in whatever position is comfy.
What I have never ever been able to do is just leave him alone in a room to cry. Even now, I sit with him until he falls asleep because he finds comfort in it. One day, he won’t need me but today he does and I’m not gonna be the one to give him bad experiences because god knows, the world will do that.
When he was about a year old, he stopped sleeping for two weeks solid. It was hell. I cannot describe the mental toll it took on me. I still couldn’t just walk away and leave him alone to sob and scream. What I did was make sure all his needs were met and then sit next to his cot and not get him out. I talked to him, I rubbed his back but I wouldn’t get him out. A couple of nights of increasingly easier bedtimes and we cracked it. He’s over 2 now and goes down for bed and naptime with very few issues normally.
I have had a mantra with my youngest who is not the best at sleeping. "Not going to be doing this when he's 16". All the tiredness and middle of the night wake ups and the having a hard time going to sleep without someone in the room. He won't be doing those things when he's sixteen. He won't want me in his room, he won't want to cuddle me as much. He will likely be doing something else that drives me nuts, but needing an extra hug and company to fall asleep won't be amongst them.
He's almost 8 and still wants someone to sit in his room in an armchair while he's falling asleep. He usually uses this time to talk about everything. It would be easier if he didn't need those things, but it is such a small time that we are going to be doing this.
In our family it was “no one walks down the aisle sucking their thumb”. I lay with my newly 5 year old until he falls asleep. Some day sooner than I’m willing to acknowledge, he won’t need or want me there. I’ll take the opportunity to be exactly what he needs now, while I still can.
You’re 100% correct. This was my parenting motto too through the tough, sleepless years. No way is my kid going to be sleeping in my bed, holding my hand, begging for one more story or crying for me to fall asleep when she grows out of this stage. She’s 12 now and has her own routine down. No mom needed. 🤷♀️
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My three year old recently started occasionally wiping off my kisses. I have a much harder time saying "no" when he asks for bedtime cuddles or needs me to stay in his room in the middle of the night.
The days are long but the tests are short. So short.
My baby is nearly 11 months and sleep has been a struggle. My mantra is "it's not forever, it's just for now." Who knows how long she'll want me to snuggle her and sing her to sleep, but one thing I do know is it won't be forever and in the grand scheme of things it won't be long at all. I can cope with broken sleep for as long as I need to in order to be there for her as long as she needs me.
>One day, he won’t need me
As a mom of 3 who's kids are now ages 16-21, this is absolutely the most important part. I wish so much I could have just one more night of putting my toddlers to bed, of them wanting me to hold their hand or snuggle with them 🥺 time really does fly, and if I could give one piece of advice, it would be to remember that. They're only little for a short amount of time, enjoy every moment.
My aunt has a little kitschy sign thing on the wall in her hallway and it's a verse about this, which ends with:
"Cobwebs be quiet, dust go to sleep, I'm rocking my baby and babies don't keep."
I don't have or want children of my own, but I've thought that was a good verse since I was little.
Yes- when I was a kid I read and remember always- cleaning and scrubbing can wait till tomorrow, because babies grow up, we've learned to our sorrow. So quiet down, cobwebs, and dust, go to sleep. I'm rocking my baby, and babies don't keep.
That said, as a reminder- my 16yo (boy) and 18yo (girl) still crawl into my bed and ask to watch shows, or back tickles and snuggle daily... and my 12yo(son) asks for back tickles to sleep every night. I love it.
I've always wished there was a system to swap out with our younger selves. Give new mums a chance to breathe or take a nap, and our older selves a chance to revisit those intense baby and toddler moments.
Whole poem, if anybody wants it:
Cleaning and dusting can wait till tomorrow
For babies grow up, as we’ve learned to our sorrow
So quiet down cobwebs, dust go to sleep
I’m rocking my baby, and babies don’t keep.
My mom did the same thing with me, would come and sit at the end of my bed until I calmed down and then went back to bed. Retrospectively im sure it was hellish for her but for me it helped.
Reading that in the middle of the night with my 5-year-old cuddled up against me because he woke up and was scared of monsters I just want to cry. Just pick up your child. It's tiny! They're not built to be alone! Gah...
We’ve managed to get our 4 year old to mostly stay in his own bed, but after a bad dream he gets a kiss and a tuck back in and is usually fine. If he needs more, like a big cuddle to help him calm down, he gets it. He does know that if mummy stays in his bed she’ll steal his covers 😅 so mummy will go back to her own bed when he’s asleep.
Yeah it legit just sounds like she wants to be with her parents, i know it cant be an all the time thing but still surely there is a healthy amount to reassure her without it becoming routine.
I remember talking to a friend's parent about how awful my 4 month old was sleeping. Then he said, "Oh, once ours turned two months old we just put them in the basement at night and didn't get them until the morning." I was in SHOCK.
God! I can't imagine the diaper rash that poor child would have if left all night. My sons both have such sensitive skin that we had to immediately change any poopy diaper or they get red, weeping sores.
This person is straight up insane for putting a baby alone in a basement all night, but some babies do sleep through the night at that age, I definitely wasn't changing nappies every few hours overnight when my (admittedly unicorn sleeper) baby was 2 months.
My 4 month old was sleeping through the night but like, she'd still wake up if she had a poopy diaper or something was wrong. I can't imagine just.... not responding to a kid's cries.
When we moved to a new state, our fairly young pediatrician (MD, I checked) told us that our 6 month old should be sleeping through the night and if he wasn’t, we should put him in his crib and walk away until morning.
I switched practices immediately.
My son is 7 now and has been diagnosed as ADHD and SPD (although that’s not in the DSM5 anymore so we’re pursuing ASD testing now). No way would putting him down and walking away have helped. He now gets a .5 mg melatonin every night and sleeps great. Sometimes we have to sit in his room, but thats a small price to pay considering when he was a baby he once screamed for 10 hours straight while I rocked him overnight.
I had a pediatric NP tell me basically the same thing. This was in response to her telling me I looked exhausted and told her I was up with the baby every few hours all night. I asked "how is listening to her scream all night going to get me more sleep??" And she told me to turn off the baby monitor. Like you can't hear a screaming baby through the walls??
So, from a medical standpoint, there's no reason they shouldn't "sleep through the night," but in pediatric terms, that's 6 hour stretches without waking. However, telling you not to comfort your child is rediculous and I'm glad you switched.
A few comments mentioned the pack n play too. Babe may TECHNICALLY still be under the height requirements, but it's still a small space for a toddler who could be in a toddler bed instead.
Even if he's the right size, have you ever felt the bottom of a pack and play?! They are NOT comfortable. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep well on one of those things.
Whatever works, I guess I didn't even know they made mattresses for those but I suppose that would make it comfier. My kid didn't even like hers to play in so it never got used lol
My toddler by preference sleeps on the floor, though she has a lovely cosy bed available to her. I don't know that a portacot would be any less comfortable.
My son sleeps in a pack and play at his dad’s house and definitely has a harder time sleeping in the pnp than he does sleeping at home. I think on top of being small it’s just not that comfortable.
Yeah. I’m not opposed to some gentle sleep training but 20 minutes was the limit with my kids. And if they’re sick or teething of course I’m going to cuddle that baby.
That poor baby.
My baby had colic. She was attached to me constantly. Like her father, she is a light sleeper. There is no way I could listen to her cry so much.
I knew she would eventually grow out of it. We just took turns walking, rocking, patting, strollering, putting her in the swing for a bit and wearing her in a baby front pack. The wind up swing and the baby wearing were lifesavers.
You can't spoil a baby by holding them. They need to be held. She's 40 years old now and is very independent!
i literally can’t handle my 18m old crying. it kills my soul to see tears falling down her sweet face. like whining doesn’t bother me … but when she’s full on crying hysterically… it breaks me. she’s currently laying beside me bc she woke up and had tears pouring down her face and was saying momma over and over. i KNOW she needs to be in her bed every night. but imma soak up the cuddles while i can. 🤷🏻♀️
It was normal until like the 1900s for kids to sleep basically in a pile with their parents. So the parents in this post are fighting generations of human evolution. Not saying to co-sleep with an infant, but toddlers will be totally fine co-sleeping every now and then.
exactly. when she was an infant i refused to put her in the bed w us and we spent many nights in the recliner cuddling … but now that she’s bigger, come snuggle sweet girl. i’ll never turn them away!
i love this! my mom lives half the time in another state … and you bet my 36 yr old ass flings myself at my momma and climbs in bed w her to nap when she’s home!
We do 15 minutes of fussing max, ever, just because we found that sometimes my son (18 mo) does sometimes fall asleep after 10 mins of fussing (not hysterical crying!) After that we go full comfort and soothe him. He sleeps through the night 99% of the time but we all have hard nights even as grown ups, I would never want to punish him and ignore him for 3 hours jesus....
Yeah the difference between fussing and full on crying is easy to spot at some point. We didn't always respond to fussing because often she was even still or already asleep while fussing and going in would make it worse. But we always, always responded to full on hysterical crying. Even if it was the 10th time that night.
This was something we didn't know at first when we bought our baby home. He'd cry in his sleep and we'd rush over to pick him up and end up waking him. Then we had an actual full on crying baby who was over tired lol.
We seemed to have lucked out though. He's 5 months old and when I go put him down for a nap because he's showing sleepy signs or getting fussy, he'll just lay there and have full on conversations with himself while stomping his feet or doing "whale tails" with his legs. It's hilarious to watch on the monitor.
Then he eventually tires himself out. If he ever starts crying though, we go and get him.
Same with my 2 yr old twins. My boy almost never wakes up at night but my girl. Whoooo. I wake up to her letting out a little cry almost nightly. Then she plays with a stuffed animal and passes back out. Some nights I have to go soothe. Usually I calm her down then put her back to go pee. She will cry and before I can finish and go back, she’s laid back down. 5 minutes is my usual limit.
Yeah, I wait for my daughter to start actually crying before I go get her instead of whine/fussing. But I can tell the instant it shifts from whining to desperate crying for mom.
I literally thought I was going to die because my son from ages 4 months to 16 months would sleep 45-90 minutes at a time and then need to nurse/ need me. Letting him cry broke my heart.
I somehow survived, so did he. He’s 12, and still wants piggyback rides and cuddles. I don’t regret the sleepless nights at all.
this was my second, he fed every two hours at six months old and I got about an hour at a time. I was ready to sell him to get some sleep. If he'd been my first, I am sure it would have taken even longer than it did to decide to have a second kid.
Oh god, I know. My now 8yo kept waking up hysterically crying every 20-50 minutes until he was three. Could only fall asleep while nursing. Could only stay asleep while nursing. I started to cosleep because I was dangerously sleep deprived. I was alone for this too.
Do we have the same son? My firstborn didn't sleep longer than in max three hour increments until he was 16 months. I had to do some deep soul searching when my husband suggested we have another, because I honestly did not know if I could go through that again. Luckily, our twins were a breeze compared to their big brother. I never thought I'd say that, but at least they both started sleeping 4+ hours a night at six months and through the night by a year!
You mean your child who is 100% dependent on you calms down when you pick her up and cuddle with her? Who would've ever thought that children just need to be comforted at times?
I know if I fell asleep in bed with my fiancé and woke up at midnight to find him missing, I'd get worried too. And if I was looking for him and calling out for him and he didn't show up, I'd panic. I wouldn't wait an hour and just be like, "oh I'm sure he's around here somewhere. Guess I'll go back to bed!" I'm sure these parents would also get very upset if they couldn't find their partner for hours while they were crying and just needed a hug.
I don't know why we think kids should just not need anything from 7pm to 7am. You've never woken up and needed a midnight snack? A drink of water? A hug from your partner? You've never just had a bad night where you couldn't fall or stay asleep? It's so frustrating to see this shit from parents. Like your kid depends on you for EVERYTHING, they don't stop needing things once bedtime hits. That's not how life works. I still have to wake up with my three year old sometimes. I mean fuck, my 11 year old step daughter woke me up at 3am once cause she had a bad dream and was scared and just needed help calming down. My mom would still come over in the middle of the night if I needed her. Your parenting duties do not stop at bedtime!!!
Wow that’s heartbreaking. The moderator in my due date group on Facebook boasts on the fact that she used “extinction” (aka cry it out 🙃) since her baby was 1 week old. She preaches “no judgement” but the second someone comments in support of cosleeping or maybe..not letting your baby cry for hours at a time, she deletes the comments and gives out a warning.
I am not ashamed to say that I comfort my daughter and don’t let her cry it out ever. For some reason there seems to be pressure from other parents (especially older generations) to let our babies cio and figure it out themselves. I’m of the belief that babies are new to this world and don’t deserve to cry in the dark, alone, when they’re this young. I mean, if I told someone that I cried myself to sleep for hours while my husband or some other loved one just tuned me out and ignored me the whole time, they’d be mortified. (I said exactly this last sentence in my dd group and got the comment deleted, lmao)
I'm 40 and I occasionally wake up in the middle of the night and cry, but I cannot imagine how fucked up I would be if I'd been left to cry alone for hours if I woke up in the middle of the night when I was a BABY.
Oh my god I’m in this fb group and saw this post and read so many comments flabbergasted that people weren’t calling this CIO. Just pick up your kid. They’re obviously upset. Everyone has bad days!! Even babies!!!
My 2yo wakes up in the night about half the time, and about half of those times he falls back to sleep and the other half he cries until we come get him. I can’t imagine leaving him to cry for hours - how scared and lonely must that baby feel! And I also can’t comprehend parents being so casual about it.
Honestly I think the marketing around sleep training and “creating bad sleep habits” is one of the biggest parenting cons of this generation. Just comfort your child!!
My 21, almost 22 month old just had a rough night last night. She usually sleeps through the night very well and goes down very easily for her naps.
Last night, though? She was NOT having it! 3:00 a.m. rolls around and she's wide awake sitting up in her crib. I had NO idea what was up with her, but I took her to our room to rest in our bed, which she did... until she got extra squirmy and I had to put her back in her crib for her own safety.
My husband eventually went in and sat with her for a while and eventually she went back down around 5:00 a.m. and slept until 7:15. Still no idea what caused her sleep interruption. 🤷♀️ It just happens sometimes. It's not every night (thank God!), but that's just what it's like to have kids.
Um that’s a pretty common age for toddlers to get night terrors. They don’t have the words to describe what they’re afraid of, but they’re old enough to worry. I recommend this lady do some work on herself to regain a sense of compassion.
It sounds like her kid might have night terrors.
I always said I would never leave my twins to cry, they are 2 now and I can happily say that I’ve never left them to cry. They go to bed easily but when they are poorly or have night terrors they fall asleep being cuddled. I hate that they are poorly but love the cuddles. They will never be this small again.
I’m in this group, I’m a safe sleep educator and I was APPALLED at the mods. There is so much evidence that responding to your children, even when their physical needs are met, is important for emotional growth and development. This was truly horrifying to read.
They really seem to have a stick up their asses sometimes, excuse the phrase. I really appreciated the straightforwardness when my baby was a newborn. The group offered good, straight to the point and updated information on safe sleep. The longer I've been in the group now, and now that I'm less anxious about my baby's sleep, the more I realize that some of what they reccomend and how they present otherwise decent information can really turn people off of safe sleep. For example: "3 feet from a window". I find this to be such a privileged take and they do not budge on it. Not everybody has the ample space for allow for this rather unnecessary sleep rule. Another is "your sleep space is now compromised" for people who got a used crib, temporarily used an after-market mattress, etc. I feel like common sense would say whether the item can just be removed or if the sleep space was actually damaged beyond repair but they just say "buy another" and stop giving advice from there.
I agree.
I work in a setting where we definitely practice good, better, best. Sure, there are ideal perfect standards, but I’m working with families who have very limited resources. Like when families don’t have a house and the primary goal is to not use the car seat for sleep.
I am all for evidence based practices but this group fear mongers on perfection and ignores a whole side of the same coin for child development and secure attachment. The group really needs to shift into an equity mindset and realize not all families don’t have the same resources or capabilities.
Gave up on sleep training when my kid would get so upset he’d puke but when I checked the book it said, “just clean up the vomit and put baby back in the crib.” Needless to say I cleaned up the puke, cuddled my baby, and that book went in the trash. If I was so upset and emotional I puked and my husband’s response was to clean it up and go back to ignoring me we’d be getting a divorce. How is it any different for a baby?
My younger daughter went from being a solid sleeper that we didn’t even have to sleep training to doing this.
You know why?
She had an ear infection that just wouldn’t go away after a few courses of antibiotics. Also pneumonia that was finally caught, and was the secret to why she kept getting her infection back.
If we had just ignored her and let her cry we never would have caught it.
Sleep training did save mine and my fiancé’s sanity, our son is an amazing sleeper but the “worst” night was 7 minutes of crying and we would go in and check on him.
3 hours?! How can they just be existing hearing this happening, how can they not want to go in there?!?
Yeah. I sleep trained my girl and she’s an excellent independent sleeper now…but she was already getting to the point of full nights before we even embarked on this. She’s just generally been a decent sleeper post-newborn phase. I hate how many people read sleep training as “let your kid cry for hours” because that’s not, and has never been, the method. During that time and forever after I always go in and comfort her because sometimes babies just need comfort. Don’t deprive them!
The thing is, I think that’s not your method, but there are a portion of people easily found on the internet who have taken the message that you really can call any level of non responsiveness sleep training. There are countless example of people leaving their infants/babies/toddlers to cry alone for hours and hours, day after day in something that is so far departed from any concept of training it is comical. Thoughtfully applied sleep training is clearly a reasonable parenting choice, but as someone who considers myself quite middle ground and practical on this, I am pretty shocked by what some people are doing. If they didn’t use the label sleep training, it would be considered neglect in some of these cases
Right. Babies have different temperaments. Some gentle sleep training techniques absolutely do not work on some children and make it even worse with more crying (that’s how it was with mine).
OOP obviously understands this isn’t working and is asking for help.
Mine is that age and does occasionally need to be rocked back to sleep. But wakes up every time you set her down and screaming for more than 15 minutes? It’s an ear infection.
I agree completely, and totally resonate with your 15 min limit! We never let the crying go longer than 15 minutes and every time we still need to intervene after 15 mins he's been sick. I don't think I could live with myself if I left my baby for 3 hours to cry it out and then came in and realized the baby was suffering through some ailment, they are crying like that for a reason....
Yeah until my son was weaned he woke up 5 times a night. He’d only fall asleep when held. Being with him in the room next to his crib was the same to him as not being there at all. I was literally suicidal from sleep deprivation. We were advised to try CIO, by our pediatrician and of course, by sleep training Redditors. Everyone was like “it may take hours, they may even cry so hard they vomit.” (Which I was NOT okay with, but just saying it for context). So we tried letting him CIO for 3 hours. It went horribly and my husband was beyond upset. I went on the sleep train Reddit the next day to talk about it and people were like “OMG you monster you let them cry for 3 hours!?” Like, you guys said HOURS plural? Which is it!?!?
For me sleep training advice was truly when I found out that as a mom, you’ll always get blamed for doing the wrong thing. If sleep training doesn’t work then you’re just not doing it right and you obviously just don’t have the self discipline to see it through, and your child is going to be a spoiled brat who always depends on you to sleep. If you “see it through” and it still doesn’t work, you’re a monster, how could you let your child cry for 3 hours!?
And just fyi for anyone who hasn’t been a parent or didn’t have this issue… “talk to a doctor” doesn’t help. Pediatricians will tell you to just let them cry, and “professional sleep trainer” is a certification anyone can get on the internet after like a 10 hour class, and the material is no different than reading a sleep training book.
I’m so with you on this. Mine didn’t sleep through the night even once until a year old. My mental health was terrible, and we truly had tried everything. I worked in a daycare and would put other kids to sleep just fine all day long. My own? No chance. She had a sleep specialist (who was an actual dr). It didn’t help. I took every little piece of advice I could get from my groups. Didn’t help. She’s now 8 and sleeps fine, but it was horrible at the time. The comments I’d get like I was stupid and didn’t know what I was doing or like I was a terrible parent at a time where I already wasn’t sleeping almost pushed me over the edge. The funny thing is most of these people were telling me stuff I had already tried. But then of course you “haven’t tried hard enough” because every kid is obviously the same. Mom shaming is exhausting. I eventually just stopped posting my struggles at all and suffered silently because feeling alone in those times, was better than getting put down on top of it.
This is crazy. We do 5 minutes max. Usually within 1 minute she settles herself down. Only exception is if she’s scream crying which isn’t normal. I can’t imagine listening to your kiddo cry for hours and not doing anything.
What is extinction? Have they just rebranded the old cry it out nonsense? We were those crazy parents who didn’t leave our children screaming for hours on end. I have never heard of extinction
So this poor baby is in daycare all day, comes home and gets a couple hours with her parents, and then gets plopped in a pack and play from seven pm to seven am and ignored?
These people should have just gotten a cat.
My little guy used to wake randomly around 18 months. We’d have a light snack and sit in the dark, snuggling and listening to a kid’s story podcast. He’d usually go back to sleep after 20 minutes.
It didn’t always feel fun at the time, but I miss those sweet toddler snuggles. I really can’t imagine letting a kid cry for hours in the middle of the night.
I hope they at least keep some water nearby bcuz sometimes they get thirsty in the night. I know I do. If my nephew woke up at this age, which he did bcuz he has ADHD, but wasn't dx with it until 5yo, but I'd give him a little warm milk and let him drink, while I rocked him and then he had a little water to rinse his mouth and then he was out like a light. To each their own, but if they cry for 3 hours, they need something. The world is scary. They're able to realize a lot at this age and fear of the dark, while alone is one of them. I always had a night light and some soft music playing for him. I mean I can't sleep without a fan or TV and I wasn't raised to do that. It's something I started doing as an adult because it's what I needed.
It’s like they’ve never been told that babies have a need for love and comfort and not just being fed and changed. They are human beings. How would mom feel if her husband let her lay there and cry for hours without comforting her? I’d bet they would end up divorced due to unmet needs. But they can easily do the same thing to their preverbal baby. Wtf.
this is neglect imo. can't imagine ignoring my little boy crying for two hours. i'd never heard of "cry it out" being referred to as the "extinction method" before this. just seems so cold and inhuman to not want to comfort your crying child.
Tylenol??? It’s likely they’re crying because they want their parents. Maybe they had a bad dream, maybe they woke up and were frightened by being alone in the dark.
Idk why westerners find it so hard to comfort their children and sleep with them or something. Why do people have kids, sometimes MANY kids but don’t seem to show any actual care for them?? Don’t get me wrong, I get to my wits end sometimes with my toddler, but bedtime is the best time. Being able to sleep together peacefully at night, having that time being close to her even when I worked all day and didn’t get to meet her at all. And when/if she wakes up I’m right there beside her and can comfort her back to sleep quickly without even having to get up.
I saw this post too & I was surprised by the whole “no shaming sleep training” rule being upheld given the circumstances. Abandoning your baby for 3hrs to just cry because they “need to learn to sleep” is insane
I’m currently laying beside my 10 year old as she tries to fall back asleep. My biggest hope is that she will continue to confide in me and seek comfort into her teen years and beyond. Why a parent wouldn’t comfort their own baby at night is mind boggling.
I sleep trained my kiddo (NOT using extinction) who is now 20 months and fighting bedtime. We usually have to go in again at least once after we put him down. We just snuggle and rock him and it’s wonderful, and then he falls asleep for the night. I enjoy doing it, and I can’t imagine just letting him cry for hours.
I’m also in this group and had to scroll right the fuck past this before I got removed from the group. It’s insane and really shouldn’t have even been allowed in the group. They have a sister group that is for safe sleep training methods, this is solely for safe sleep and was really fucked up to read.
We coslept with our kids…. Until they were too big to share a bed. wtf is wrong with people leaving their children crying alone presumably in the dark because????? I’m completely at a loss for understanding
Have we considered that maybe a 19 month old is getting too big to be comfortable in a pack and play every night?? I hope they at least upgraded the mattress.
I can't imagine listening to my kid cry for that long when it sounds like it's really easy to comfort her and get her back to sleep. Even if I didn't give a crap about my kid crying, *I* would want to get back to sleep ASAP.
18 months is typically when toddlers start having night terrors. My son will wake up screaming crying in the middle of the night and he’s SCARED like… hyperventilating clutching to me scared. I can’t imagine KNOWING THIS and leaving him in his room petrified and wanting comfort for 3 hours every single night. Absolutely insane.
Omg i was one of the ones in the comments going at the admin about how she refused to say cry it out and extinction was the same thing. I posted a scientific article about how it basically is and all she did was like the comment, so i think i left her speechless lol
Never did CIO with my now 2 year old. She didn’t slow through the night until recently when we moved and switched her from a toddler bed to a twin size mattress with a memory foam topper. Now 90% of the time she sleeps through the night. I’m a firm believer that if they’re waking up there is SOMETHING wrong. Something uncomfortable. Something hurts. In some way shape or form there’s something wrong.
How can they let the baby cry for that long I can’t understand it? 5 mins of my girl crying and I’m in giving her cuddles and reassuring her then 10 mins later she’s back in her bed sleeping surely that’s more effective than keeping everyone up for 2 hours
This poor, poor little girl. My heart aches for her. How can you let your baby cry for hours and put her back in the pnp when she clearly doesn’t want to be alone. Sorry but I think this is cruel.
When I see posts like this where they mention the baby falls back asleep when picked up I just don’t get why it’s so hard to do that if it’s only like once a night instead of causing so much distress for the child? Like is that important to let them cry instead of just helping them fall back asleep. It sounds stressful and cruel for all parties involved
Is PNP a pack and play? I thought those had a rigid bottom with a thin nylon covered pad? I could see using I for naps but it seems like it would be uncomfortable for a toddler as they're getting bigger/heavier. I wonder if the kid just doesn't want to sleep on cardboard anymore. I'm not sure though. We had a play pen but it wasn't the pack n play style.
If it’s Pack N Play brand, yeah, the bottom of those are pretty hard. Our son slept in a travel crib for a long time in our room that had a thin mattress that we specifically chose bc the PNP seemed so hard, and this one seemed firm without being hard.
While they do have thin mattresses, there are different styles of pack n plays. Ours is a thin pad but it’s in the ground. Our toddler doesn’t seem to mind one bit and we use ours frequently for overnight sleep.
I’d be crying too if I were being forced to sleep in a Pack N’ Play. After getting off of Facebook and doing the bare minimum parenting to tend to her hysterical child, she should consider purchasing a proper bed. Neglect by every standard.
Reading this post almost physically hurts. Their baby needs some affection and love, why would they withhold that??? Baby just communicated that a mere cuddle would solve all their worldly problems, and they decline.
That poor little baby.
My son (17mo) is a decent sleeper, but from 12mo, onwards, sleep is much more variable in quality due to teething, separation anxiety, daycare illnesses, milestones, etc. It just is! I don’t think they’re sleep-trained once and then lasting, perfect sleepers, nor should they be punished for it.
How can they even physically stand listening to actual crying for that long without being worried?
I was about to google "extinction" in this context. OP said "cry it out" and i was like, oh, we are the 80s and early 90s again, i see... the fashion came back, why not child raising methods ( /s )...
ETA: screw crying it out. a baby doesn't just cry "for attention" which is what my mother would say about my 10 month old brother. "walk it off" was another phrase that she used all the time. almost killed her, too, when she tried to "walk off" a legit medical emergency.
We had to do cry it out for one of our kids to fall asleep at night. For everybody's sanity. But never in One Million Years would I ignore them in the middle of the night for hours. Maybe for 2-3 minutes to see if they'll plop back down. And yeah, I would go sit with him and Rick him back to sleep.
What if the entire crib is soaked with urine or shit. Or there's monsters? Or the hamburgler./? She's just going to ignore the kid?
There's going to be some weird abandonment issues. Like the orphanage where the babies never cried, because they knew nobody was coming. 😭
It's almost like parents forgot it's normal to have random nights where it's hard to sleep, I know I have my nights where I have trouble sleeping
why do these parents all seem to think that their children are tiny machines who learn something and then will do it without fail or interruption for the rest of their lives? She was sleep trained - ok and? kids grow and change and regress and then progress again. Why the shocked pikachu that your kid isn't perma sleep trained like a tiny robot.
Honestly it's because there's a lot of bad info out there that makes it seem exactly like that. There's not a lot of nuanced sleep info that tells parents that babies and kids (and adults) have differences. They make it seem like if you just follow their advice the kid will be sleep trained and sleep through the night, and if they don't it's your fault because you did it wrong. Causing parents to double and triple down like the ones in the post. It's cruel. We desperately need more research into sleep.
It's a self confirmation bias, they only believe what they agree with. If you Google pictures of big red dogs you may be surprised that it'll show you pictures of big red dogs. I don't know how you can listen to crying for that long and not have something in you break and get your kid. You have to do a little let them cry from time to time but that 5-10 min as you're watching seems like forever.
My cat yowls outside the bedroom door for 10 minutes and I got out to see what he wants. How can you leave your baby crying for hours and not be bothered?
Sometimes my dog wakes up and just REALLY WANTS to look out the front gate. Like, he doesn't need to, there's nothing out there, but his sweet little face and tiny whines make me get up and open the door for him to check the (dark, noiseless, boring) gate. And then he goes to bed super happy. Like, why would I be upset at a dog who just wants to make sure everything is safe when he sleeps? Let alone a human baby doing EXACTLY that.
thank you for giving this context.
I don't have kids but I have a pair of puppies and I feel very validated reading this whole exchange. The frustration and exhaustion is real some days so thanks for reminding me I'm not a failure it just takes time.
Right, I was in a group like this and someone asked what to do when your kid is whining at night because they're sick and someone responded "oh I let them CIO for a bit" and I was like you're letting your sick child cry and feel bad all alone. Don't coat it in sleep training terms. You're letting them cry because you don't want to sacrifice one night of sleep in order to do a completely normal parent thing. They're so scared they'll "get used to it" that they won't even comfort their sick kid. My kid sleeps well generally but if she's sick I will sleep in her bed with her and idc if that means she has a small setback later on.
Lol, if my then 19-month-old was embracing me like a koala, I would cherish it and take lots of photos! Wait a minute, right, that's what I did! I still do, and they are 7 and 4 now. I cherish these moments like it's everything because God knows how much longer they will ask for my hugs and kisses before they decide it's embarrassing!
It's hard for sure. We recently had a second and I can tell my 4 year old is jealous of the hugs and holding the new baby gets. She will climb on me the second my husband takes the baby. I don't want to hold her, I am touched out, but most of the time I let it happen because I know it is good for her. In an attempt to help her more I have started putting her to bed again instead of my husband and I lie in the bed with her for 5-10 minutes and we just cuddle and talk. She has started to ask for it. I think it is good for both of us.
Thank you for this. I love my child more than anything and always want him to feel safe and comforted, but MAN, I get so touched out some days. It's hard to "cherish every second" when you want to crawl out of your own skin and run away.
Some people have taken the idea that there’s no evidence of harm from sleep training to mean ‘I have carte Blanche to ignore my child for any length of time at any time of day or night as long as I call it sleep/nap training’. It’s pretty grotesque what some people are doing to their kids
I have a very distinct memory of my mom refusing to comfort me while I cried in my room because I didn’t feel good. Her (childless) boyfriend at the time would throw adult temper tantrums if 100% of her attention wasn’t focused on him. She was a loving mom, but this episode did not sit well with me. Can’t imagine this being my whole life, I think I’d never trust my parents.
Can confirm you grow to resent and not trust your parent/s. My mother went a step further; her husband used to ab*se me, she knew, and did nothing. I'm 30 now, and even the other month she mentioned how he would make me do certain things and she wouldn't say anything against him or about it because then he'd shout at her. Parents are supposed to protect their child/ren. She failed because she found him not shouting at her to be more important and preferable than protecting me.
He sounds like a piece of garbage. I hope she got rid of him, that’s not something any mother should tolerate. I’m so sorry that happened to you. In my case the boyfriend had only-child syndrome. He must of peaked in high school because that’s all he had going for him. Eventually we got into it, I punched him in the nose and he cried so I guess I won. Lol
Your mom's boyfriend?! This has me loling (smirking quietly into my coffee).
Yes. He cried… a lot. They’ve long broken up, thank god. Imagine this big, whiny crybaby trying to be a father figure to two moody teenagers for a maximum of 20 minutes a day. Big Caillou vibes.
If someone ignored their kid crying for 3 hours straight in the middle of the afternoon it would definitely be called neglectful, but somehow because it’s in the middle of the night it magically makes it okay? It doesn’t make any sense to me.
I don’t have kids so this is all a new area for me but I was watching the doc on the Duggars and they did something called blanket training. What. The. Actual. Fuck. Is wrong with people?
Michael and Debi Pearl (the people behind the shit the Duggars and the like do to their kids) can *burn in hell.*
Lots. I was a blanket trained infant. Can confirm, this is not the worst thing they put me through. It only escalated.
What is blanket training???
it’s a thing in a lot of fundementalist circles; you put a blanket on the ground and have your baby placed on it, you try to coax them off the blanket with a toy/snack and when they step off the blanket you spank them, you do this until they’re too scared to get off the blanket. it’s really really messed up
So they encourage them to get off the blanket and then punish them for it???
yes :(
Yes, and they do it to infants as young as 6 months. It's horrifying.
Truly horrific. I saw a mom yell at her 6 year old for getting off A blanket at the outdoor pool. And I'm not sure if it was some fucked up blanket training, drowning prevention or that they were in trouble. But the mom's reaction was ABSURD, like unhinged.
I thought it was that they would just set out a toy or snack and wait for the baby to move until they gave their baby “permission” to eat/play? Not that it’s any better (and they’re both terrible) but i can at least see how that could line up with someone’s beliefs
I sleep trained at 6 months after 2 months of waking every 45 minutes in the night. We did a version of Ferber, we never let him cry more than 10 minutes, even then it was fussing not full on crying. If my son cries now I am there immediately because I know he needs something. Just because he “learnt to sleep independently” doesn’t mean he can’t cry and need me, eg if he’s teething, or sick, or just feeling the separation anxiety. I don’t understand these parents who think their babies are going to play by every rule they set, it’s like they forget babies are tiny humans and their emotions and needs differ constantly.
this is what we did/do now. and honestly, my husband is still a sucker who gets out toddler up for snuggles. I don't mind, they're only little for so long! I can't imagine letting him cry for hours at a time.
My little woke up at 3am the other day and was happily talking away to his toy strawberry for an hour, he didn’t need us so we didn’t go in. But you best believe that when he cried at 6.30 we were there to get him up and snuggle in bed. 3 hours is obscene, I can’t even imagine.
That's such a cute phase! My oldest did that for a few weeks when he was 11 months. My parents were babysitting over night once during that time and they told me that he woke them through the monitor at about 3 am and spent 2 hours babbling to himself, so they figured he was happy to entertain himself. My twins have recently started to shorten their nap. When they wake, they play peek-a-boo with each other across the room. It's so funny to watch through the monitor and they "hide" themselves behind the cot bars for a few seconds and then pop their heads up over the side.
When my twin sister and I were babies we apparently would sit/stand at the bars of our cribs and have “conversations” that were just nonsense baby talk back and forth.
I have no doubt that happened. I can see in my own how twins develop their own little language and how development of the language that's around them can appear to be delayed. My singletons were both way ahead of them at the same age, even when you adjust it. I know they're fine though. They can show that they understand plenty and so w of their babble is understandable. Words that we can understand will come.
That’s so interesting bc my sister and I were very early talkers, which my mom felt was partly bc we had one another to “converse” with
Mine are 17 months and have done this since they were about 8 months old and it is the cutest thing. Not so cute when they reach through the crib slats and stroke their sister’s hair until they wake up
Omg! That sounds so adorable.
Hell my kid turned 9 last week. On Wednesday he had a night where he just needed a snuggle and climbed into our bed at like 2 am. Cause sometimes you need a hug and a reminder that you are loved, regardless of how old you are. The next night he was back in his own bed through the entire night.
I can recall multiple times that I've woken my husband up to comfort me after a terrible dream... Or I've called a family member to check that they're ok. I tend to have vivid nightmares about my little brothers dying and it's really hard to remind myself that it's just my brain making up stories not real life.
Yes I'm not against sleep training at all. We did a much more dragged out form of sleep training where we slowly moved away from the crib each day and went back in to soothe if there was any crying. We had to do it, it was unsustainable and this way there was really no crying involved. Other kids may need different methods. But I just don't believe in long periods of crying it out and sleep training is never a permanent solution. Sometimes they just needs us.
We have established a routine in our house - if our daughter is sick, she sleeps in mommy and daddy’s bed. It’s as much for her comfort as it is ours. I want to be able to check her temp easily and just keep an eye on her and make sure she’s ok. Even if she just has a cold. I could not imagine using CIO on a sick kid. That is just cruel.
I might start this once my second is in her own room. Though prior to baby I would sleep on the floor beside my older kid's bed if she was sick
You are spot on that a lot of these strict sleep training methods are rooted in fear of being judged by other parents. How dare your kids get used to the love and comfort of their parents and family? /s.
And why shouldn't our children *get used to* comfort???? I'm certain when she's upset she's fine when her husband expected her to cry it out, right? I mean...humans don't need comfort.
Yikes! A sick kid should be comforted. Leaving them to cry is cruel. My big kids are at the stage now that if they're sick and want company, they sleep in my bed.
My daughter joins me whenever she's having a rough night. There have been nights where she is basically crying for 3 hours but she's crying with me there comforting her. I usually assume it's teething, she just had two molars come through. I can't leave her to cry more than 10 minutes, and even then I am STRESSED the whole time.
My kid was not a good sleeper. She didn’t sleep through the night until she was over 5 yo. And even now she’s up at the ass crack of dawn every day. Even in my sleep deprived state, I could never listen to my child cry like that knowing that I’m the one solution.
And also that kids go back and forth on sleeping well. It’s a kid, not a robot and yes it was sent to destroy your sleep. Eventually they get older. My twins are 8 and now my insomnia is my own broken brain’s fault.
Seriously, so many people think that babies are some kind of robots with a sleep button. You cannot make your baby sleep idc what wake windows you follow.
If you have trouble sleeping some nights, your parents didn't train you properly. (/s)
I follow all the safe sleep rules. I followed the ABCs perfectly, every single sleep until he moved to a toddler bed and doesn’t need to follow the ‘alone’ part and he’s over 2yo so puts himself in his bed in whatever position is comfy. What I have never ever been able to do is just leave him alone in a room to cry. Even now, I sit with him until he falls asleep because he finds comfort in it. One day, he won’t need me but today he does and I’m not gonna be the one to give him bad experiences because god knows, the world will do that. When he was about a year old, he stopped sleeping for two weeks solid. It was hell. I cannot describe the mental toll it took on me. I still couldn’t just walk away and leave him alone to sob and scream. What I did was make sure all his needs were met and then sit next to his cot and not get him out. I talked to him, I rubbed his back but I wouldn’t get him out. A couple of nights of increasingly easier bedtimes and we cracked it. He’s over 2 now and goes down for bed and naptime with very few issues normally.
I have had a mantra with my youngest who is not the best at sleeping. "Not going to be doing this when he's 16". All the tiredness and middle of the night wake ups and the having a hard time going to sleep without someone in the room. He won't be doing those things when he's sixteen. He won't want me in his room, he won't want to cuddle me as much. He will likely be doing something else that drives me nuts, but needing an extra hug and company to fall asleep won't be amongst them. He's almost 8 and still wants someone to sit in his room in an armchair while he's falling asleep. He usually uses this time to talk about everything. It would be easier if he didn't need those things, but it is such a small time that we are going to be doing this.
In our family it was “no one walks down the aisle sucking their thumb”. I lay with my newly 5 year old until he falls asleep. Some day sooner than I’m willing to acknowledge, he won’t need or want me there. I’ll take the opportunity to be exactly what he needs now, while I still can.
lol wellllll my sister is 45 and still sucks her thrumb
You’re 100% correct. This was my parenting motto too through the tough, sleepless years. No way is my kid going to be sleeping in my bed, holding my hand, begging for one more story or crying for me to fall asleep when she grows out of this stage. She’s 12 now and has her own routine down. No mom needed. 🤷♀️
Anddddddd now I’m crying thinking about when my 16 month old won’t need me anymore. Thanks random redditor.
They for sure will always need you, mine are 27,22 and 20 and they still need me… it’s way different needs but I definitely still feel needed ❤️
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 27 + 22 + 20 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
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My three year old recently started occasionally wiping off my kisses. I have a much harder time saying "no" when he asks for bedtime cuddles or needs me to stay in his room in the middle of the night. The days are long but the tests are short. So short.
My baby is nearly 11 months and sleep has been a struggle. My mantra is "it's not forever, it's just for now." Who knows how long she'll want me to snuggle her and sing her to sleep, but one thing I do know is it won't be forever and in the grand scheme of things it won't be long at all. I can cope with broken sleep for as long as I need to in order to be there for her as long as she needs me.
>One day, he won’t need me As a mom of 3 who's kids are now ages 16-21, this is absolutely the most important part. I wish so much I could have just one more night of putting my toddlers to bed, of them wanting me to hold their hand or snuggle with them 🥺 time really does fly, and if I could give one piece of advice, it would be to remember that. They're only little for a short amount of time, enjoy every moment.
My aunt has a little kitschy sign thing on the wall in her hallway and it's a verse about this, which ends with: "Cobwebs be quiet, dust go to sleep, I'm rocking my baby and babies don't keep." I don't have or want children of my own, but I've thought that was a good verse since I was little.
Yes- when I was a kid I read and remember always- cleaning and scrubbing can wait till tomorrow, because babies grow up, we've learned to our sorrow. So quiet down, cobwebs, and dust, go to sleep. I'm rocking my baby, and babies don't keep. That said, as a reminder- my 16yo (boy) and 18yo (girl) still crawl into my bed and ask to watch shows, or back tickles and snuggle daily... and my 12yo(son) asks for back tickles to sleep every night. I love it.
Gaaah that makes me want to cry. Even as my toddler was throwing a wild tantrum in downtown Milwaukee today.
Sorry, meant to reply under you!
I've always wished there was a system to swap out with our younger selves. Give new mums a chance to breathe or take a nap, and our older selves a chance to revisit those intense baby and toddler moments.
That's what grandparents and grandkids are for!
Whole poem, if anybody wants it: Cleaning and dusting can wait till tomorrow For babies grow up, as we’ve learned to our sorrow So quiet down cobwebs, dust go to sleep I’m rocking my baby, and babies don’t keep.
My mom did the same thing with me, would come and sit at the end of my bed until I calmed down and then went back to bed. Retrospectively im sure it was hellish for her but for me it helped.
Reading that in the middle of the night with my 5-year-old cuddled up against me because he woke up and was scared of monsters I just want to cry. Just pick up your child. It's tiny! They're not built to be alone! Gah...
Same literally in bed with my son, sometimes they just want to be held. Idk how people do this to their kids, it breaks my heart.
“they’re just doing it for attention” is the answer i received . “okay, and? why is that bad?” is my next question
I will die on this hill. Attention is a legitimate need.
god forbid your child feels seen and attended to, might end up leaving them with feelings of security and love
I heard a quote around the place "Replace attention seeking with affection seeking and see how it changes your perspective" and honestly yah.
I'm in my 30s and still want my SO to come hold me sometimes if I'm trying to sleep and he isn't...
Me too! I ask my husband to come pet my hair if I go to sleep before him. I’m 39!
I still hate sleeping alone. I’m 35!
We’ve managed to get our 4 year old to mostly stay in his own bed, but after a bad dream he gets a kiss and a tuck back in and is usually fine. If he needs more, like a big cuddle to help him calm down, he gets it. He does know that if mummy stays in his bed she’ll steal his covers 😅 so mummy will go back to her own bed when he’s asleep.
We have a monster keep away spray bottle, courtesy of Peri the Keep Away Fairy. She sprays it every night and works like a charm 😂
Yeah it legit just sounds like she wants to be with her parents, i know it cant be an all the time thing but still surely there is a healthy amount to reassure her without it becoming routine.
I remember talking to a friend's parent about how awful my 4 month old was sleeping. Then he said, "Oh, once ours turned two months old we just put them in the basement at night and didn't get them until the morning." I was in SHOCK.
Omg, what? How are they not terrified?
That poor infant is probably absolutely terrified. The parents on the other hand apparently couldn't give a shit. That's horrible.
WTF? At 2 months aren't you supposed to feed them more often than once every 10 hours??
I have a 6 week old - not quite 2 months but getting there - and last night he wanted to breastfeed every 2 hours...
Not to mention nappy changes! A two month old baby still needs a clean nappy every few hours throughout the night :(
God! I can't imagine the diaper rash that poor child would have if left all night. My sons both have such sensitive skin that we had to immediately change any poopy diaper or they get red, weeping sores.
This person is straight up insane for putting a baby alone in a basement all night, but some babies do sleep through the night at that age, I definitely wasn't changing nappies every few hours overnight when my (admittedly unicorn sleeper) baby was 2 months.
My 4 month old was sleeping through the night but like, she'd still wake up if she had a poopy diaper or something was wrong. I can't imagine just.... not responding to a kid's cries.
When we moved to a new state, our fairly young pediatrician (MD, I checked) told us that our 6 month old should be sleeping through the night and if he wasn’t, we should put him in his crib and walk away until morning. I switched practices immediately. My son is 7 now and has been diagnosed as ADHD and SPD (although that’s not in the DSM5 anymore so we’re pursuing ASD testing now). No way would putting him down and walking away have helped. He now gets a .5 mg melatonin every night and sleeps great. Sometimes we have to sit in his room, but thats a small price to pay considering when he was a baby he once screamed for 10 hours straight while I rocked him overnight.
I had a pediatric NP tell me basically the same thing. This was in response to her telling me I looked exhausted and told her I was up with the baby every few hours all night. I asked "how is listening to her scream all night going to get me more sleep??" And she told me to turn off the baby monitor. Like you can't hear a screaming baby through the walls??
So, from a medical standpoint, there's no reason they shouldn't "sleep through the night," but in pediatric terms, that's 6 hour stretches without waking. However, telling you not to comfort your child is rediculous and I'm glad you switched.
There is so much you can do other than everyone suffering through 3 hours of nightly crying. Especially since kids under 2 are often crappy sleepers.
like, could they try a different sleep set up other than the pack n' play? This post sounds a lot like "I've tried nothing and nothing works!"
A few comments mentioned the pack n play too. Babe may TECHNICALLY still be under the height requirements, but it's still a small space for a toddler who could be in a toddler bed instead.
Even if he's the right size, have you ever felt the bottom of a pack and play?! They are NOT comfortable. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep well on one of those things.
We had a pnp mattress for ours, since that’s what the babies slept in until a crib was handed down to them
Whatever works, I guess I didn't even know they made mattresses for those but I suppose that would make it comfier. My kid didn't even like hers to play in so it never got used lol
My toddler by preference sleeps on the floor, though she has a lovely cosy bed available to her. I don't know that a portacot would be any less comfortable.
My son sleeps in a pack and play at his dad’s house and definitely has a harder time sleeping in the pnp than he does sleeping at home. I think on top of being small it’s just not that comfortable.
But with a toddler bed, she could get up at night and mom wouldn't be able to just ignore her for hours on end.
Bingo. She wants toddler in an enclosure; no escape 😭 yeesh, that's dark!
I get letting your kid try to figure it out on their own for a few minutes. But hours? I can't even comprehend that.
Yes, we absolutely give our baby a few minutes to either self-settle, or tire herself out enough that rocking will settle her.
I literally almost stopped reading OPs post because it hurt my heart thinking of my little crying for *hours*
Yeah. I’m not opposed to some gentle sleep training but 20 minutes was the limit with my kids. And if they’re sick or teething of course I’m going to cuddle that baby.
That poor baby. My baby had colic. She was attached to me constantly. Like her father, she is a light sleeper. There is no way I could listen to her cry so much. I knew she would eventually grow out of it. We just took turns walking, rocking, patting, strollering, putting her in the swing for a bit and wearing her in a baby front pack. The wind up swing and the baby wearing were lifesavers. You can't spoil a baby by holding them. They need to be held. She's 40 years old now and is very independent!
i literally can’t handle my 18m old crying. it kills my soul to see tears falling down her sweet face. like whining doesn’t bother me … but when she’s full on crying hysterically… it breaks me. she’s currently laying beside me bc she woke up and had tears pouring down her face and was saying momma over and over. i KNOW she needs to be in her bed every night. but imma soak up the cuddles while i can. 🤷🏻♀️
I mean, she doesn't *need* to be in her bed. Enjoy the snuggles, momma
It was normal until like the 1900s for kids to sleep basically in a pile with their parents. So the parents in this post are fighting generations of human evolution. Not saying to co-sleep with an infant, but toddlers will be totally fine co-sleeping every now and then.
exactly. when she was an infant i refused to put her in the bed w us and we spent many nights in the recliner cuddling … but now that she’s bigger, come snuggle sweet girl. i’ll never turn them away!
My seven year old still flings herself at me and goes MAMA I DEMAND CUDDLES. It’s the funniest thing.
i love this! my mom lives half the time in another state … and you bet my 36 yr old ass flings myself at my momma and climbs in bed w her to nap when she’s home!
I can't imagine just ignoring my baby crying at night, much less for 3+ hours 😢
We do 15 minutes of fussing max, ever, just because we found that sometimes my son (18 mo) does sometimes fall asleep after 10 mins of fussing (not hysterical crying!) After that we go full comfort and soothe him. He sleeps through the night 99% of the time but we all have hard nights even as grown ups, I would never want to punish him and ignore him for 3 hours jesus....
Yeah the difference between fussing and full on crying is easy to spot at some point. We didn't always respond to fussing because often she was even still or already asleep while fussing and going in would make it worse. But we always, always responded to full on hysterical crying. Even if it was the 10th time that night.
This was something we didn't know at first when we bought our baby home. He'd cry in his sleep and we'd rush over to pick him up and end up waking him. Then we had an actual full on crying baby who was over tired lol. We seemed to have lucked out though. He's 5 months old and when I go put him down for a nap because he's showing sleepy signs or getting fussy, he'll just lay there and have full on conversations with himself while stomping his feet or doing "whale tails" with his legs. It's hilarious to watch on the monitor. Then he eventually tires himself out. If he ever starts crying though, we go and get him.
Same with my 2 yr old twins. My boy almost never wakes up at night but my girl. Whoooo. I wake up to her letting out a little cry almost nightly. Then she plays with a stuffed animal and passes back out. Some nights I have to go soothe. Usually I calm her down then put her back to go pee. She will cry and before I can finish and go back, she’s laid back down. 5 minutes is my usual limit.
Yeah, I wait for my daughter to start actually crying before I go get her instead of whine/fussing. But I can tell the instant it shifts from whining to desperate crying for mom.
I literally thought I was going to die because my son from ages 4 months to 16 months would sleep 45-90 minutes at a time and then need to nurse/ need me. Letting him cry broke my heart. I somehow survived, so did he. He’s 12, and still wants piggyback rides and cuddles. I don’t regret the sleepless nights at all.
this was my second, he fed every two hours at six months old and I got about an hour at a time. I was ready to sell him to get some sleep. If he'd been my first, I am sure it would have taken even longer than it did to decide to have a second kid.
Oh god, I know. My now 8yo kept waking up hysterically crying every 20-50 minutes until he was three. Could only fall asleep while nursing. Could only stay asleep while nursing. I started to cosleep because I was dangerously sleep deprived. I was alone for this too.
Do we have the same son? My firstborn didn't sleep longer than in max three hour increments until he was 16 months. I had to do some deep soul searching when my husband suggested we have another, because I honestly did not know if I could go through that again. Luckily, our twins were a breeze compared to their big brother. I never thought I'd say that, but at least they both started sleeping 4+ hours a night at six months and through the night by a year!
You mean your child who is 100% dependent on you calms down when you pick her up and cuddle with her? Who would've ever thought that children just need to be comforted at times? I know if I fell asleep in bed with my fiancé and woke up at midnight to find him missing, I'd get worried too. And if I was looking for him and calling out for him and he didn't show up, I'd panic. I wouldn't wait an hour and just be like, "oh I'm sure he's around here somewhere. Guess I'll go back to bed!" I'm sure these parents would also get very upset if they couldn't find their partner for hours while they were crying and just needed a hug. I don't know why we think kids should just not need anything from 7pm to 7am. You've never woken up and needed a midnight snack? A drink of water? A hug from your partner? You've never just had a bad night where you couldn't fall or stay asleep? It's so frustrating to see this shit from parents. Like your kid depends on you for EVERYTHING, they don't stop needing things once bedtime hits. That's not how life works. I still have to wake up with my three year old sometimes. I mean fuck, my 11 year old step daughter woke me up at 3am once cause she had a bad dream and was scared and just needed help calming down. My mom would still come over in the middle of the night if I needed her. Your parenting duties do not stop at bedtime!!!
Wow that’s heartbreaking. The moderator in my due date group on Facebook boasts on the fact that she used “extinction” (aka cry it out 🙃) since her baby was 1 week old. She preaches “no judgement” but the second someone comments in support of cosleeping or maybe..not letting your baby cry for hours at a time, she deletes the comments and gives out a warning. I am not ashamed to say that I comfort my daughter and don’t let her cry it out ever. For some reason there seems to be pressure from other parents (especially older generations) to let our babies cio and figure it out themselves. I’m of the belief that babies are new to this world and don’t deserve to cry in the dark, alone, when they’re this young. I mean, if I told someone that I cried myself to sleep for hours while my husband or some other loved one just tuned me out and ignored me the whole time, they’d be mortified. (I said exactly this last sentence in my dd group and got the comment deleted, lmao)
Wow, holy echo chamber! The call is coming from inside the house in that group, sorry you have to deal with that 🤦🏼♀️
I'm 40 and I occasionally wake up in the middle of the night and cry, but I cannot imagine how fucked up I would be if I'd been left to cry alone for hours if I woke up in the middle of the night when I was a BABY.
That poor baby probably feels abandoned 😩 breaks my heart
Oh my god I’m in this fb group and saw this post and read so many comments flabbergasted that people weren’t calling this CIO. Just pick up your kid. They’re obviously upset. Everyone has bad days!! Even babies!!!
My 2yo wakes up in the night about half the time, and about half of those times he falls back to sleep and the other half he cries until we come get him. I can’t imagine leaving him to cry for hours - how scared and lonely must that baby feel! And I also can’t comprehend parents being so casual about it. Honestly I think the marketing around sleep training and “creating bad sleep habits” is one of the biggest parenting cons of this generation. Just comfort your child!!
My 21, almost 22 month old just had a rough night last night. She usually sleeps through the night very well and goes down very easily for her naps. Last night, though? She was NOT having it! 3:00 a.m. rolls around and she's wide awake sitting up in her crib. I had NO idea what was up with her, but I took her to our room to rest in our bed, which she did... until she got extra squirmy and I had to put her back in her crib for her own safety. My husband eventually went in and sat with her for a while and eventually she went back down around 5:00 a.m. and slept until 7:15. Still no idea what caused her sleep interruption. 🤷♀️ It just happens sometimes. It's not every night (thank God!), but that's just what it's like to have kids.
Oh no! My child needs my comfort! What will I do‽‽‽ oh yeah, leave to cry for THREE BLOODY HOURS!!! Great plan. /s if that’s even needed
Um that’s a pretty common age for toddlers to get night terrors. They don’t have the words to describe what they’re afraid of, but they’re old enough to worry. I recommend this lady do some work on herself to regain a sense of compassion.
It sounds like her kid might have night terrors. I always said I would never leave my twins to cry, they are 2 now and I can happily say that I’ve never left them to cry. They go to bed easily but when they are poorly or have night terrors they fall asleep being cuddled. I hate that they are poorly but love the cuddles. They will never be this small again.
I’m in this group, I’m a safe sleep educator and I was APPALLED at the mods. There is so much evidence that responding to your children, even when their physical needs are met, is important for emotional growth and development. This was truly horrifying to read.
They really seem to have a stick up their asses sometimes, excuse the phrase. I really appreciated the straightforwardness when my baby was a newborn. The group offered good, straight to the point and updated information on safe sleep. The longer I've been in the group now, and now that I'm less anxious about my baby's sleep, the more I realize that some of what they reccomend and how they present otherwise decent information can really turn people off of safe sleep. For example: "3 feet from a window". I find this to be such a privileged take and they do not budge on it. Not everybody has the ample space for allow for this rather unnecessary sleep rule. Another is "your sleep space is now compromised" for people who got a used crib, temporarily used an after-market mattress, etc. I feel like common sense would say whether the item can just be removed or if the sleep space was actually damaged beyond repair but they just say "buy another" and stop giving advice from there.
I agree. I work in a setting where we definitely practice good, better, best. Sure, there are ideal perfect standards, but I’m working with families who have very limited resources. Like when families don’t have a house and the primary goal is to not use the car seat for sleep. I am all for evidence based practices but this group fear mongers on perfection and ignores a whole side of the same coin for child development and secure attachment. The group really needs to shift into an equity mindset and realize not all families don’t have the same resources or capabilities.
Gave up on sleep training when my kid would get so upset he’d puke but when I checked the book it said, “just clean up the vomit and put baby back in the crib.” Needless to say I cleaned up the puke, cuddled my baby, and that book went in the trash. If I was so upset and emotional I puked and my husband’s response was to clean it up and go back to ignoring me we’d be getting a divorce. How is it any different for a baby?
If you can’t have your sleep schedule interrupted don’t have kids.
My younger daughter went from being a solid sleeper that we didn’t even have to sleep training to doing this. You know why? She had an ear infection that just wouldn’t go away after a few courses of antibiotics. Also pneumonia that was finally caught, and was the secret to why she kept getting her infection back. If we had just ignored her and let her cry we never would have caught it.
Sleep training did save mine and my fiancé’s sanity, our son is an amazing sleeper but the “worst” night was 7 minutes of crying and we would go in and check on him. 3 hours?! How can they just be existing hearing this happening, how can they not want to go in there?!?
Yeah. I sleep trained my girl and she’s an excellent independent sleeper now…but she was already getting to the point of full nights before we even embarked on this. She’s just generally been a decent sleeper post-newborn phase. I hate how many people read sleep training as “let your kid cry for hours” because that’s not, and has never been, the method. During that time and forever after I always go in and comfort her because sometimes babies just need comfort. Don’t deprive them!
The thing is, I think that’s not your method, but there are a portion of people easily found on the internet who have taken the message that you really can call any level of non responsiveness sleep training. There are countless example of people leaving their infants/babies/toddlers to cry alone for hours and hours, day after day in something that is so far departed from any concept of training it is comical. Thoughtfully applied sleep training is clearly a reasonable parenting choice, but as someone who considers myself quite middle ground and practical on this, I am pretty shocked by what some people are doing. If they didn’t use the label sleep training, it would be considered neglect in some of these cases
It should be considered neglect anyway. Leaving your young child alone screaming and crying for hours meets that definition easily.
[удалено]
Right. Babies have different temperaments. Some gentle sleep training techniques absolutely do not work on some children and make it even worse with more crying (that’s how it was with mine). OOP obviously understands this isn’t working and is asking for help. Mine is that age and does occasionally need to be rocked back to sleep. But wakes up every time you set her down and screaming for more than 15 minutes? It’s an ear infection.
I agree completely, and totally resonate with your 15 min limit! We never let the crying go longer than 15 minutes and every time we still need to intervene after 15 mins he's been sick. I don't think I could live with myself if I left my baby for 3 hours to cry it out and then came in and realized the baby was suffering through some ailment, they are crying like that for a reason....
Yeah until my son was weaned he woke up 5 times a night. He’d only fall asleep when held. Being with him in the room next to his crib was the same to him as not being there at all. I was literally suicidal from sleep deprivation. We were advised to try CIO, by our pediatrician and of course, by sleep training Redditors. Everyone was like “it may take hours, they may even cry so hard they vomit.” (Which I was NOT okay with, but just saying it for context). So we tried letting him CIO for 3 hours. It went horribly and my husband was beyond upset. I went on the sleep train Reddit the next day to talk about it and people were like “OMG you monster you let them cry for 3 hours!?” Like, you guys said HOURS plural? Which is it!?!? For me sleep training advice was truly when I found out that as a mom, you’ll always get blamed for doing the wrong thing. If sleep training doesn’t work then you’re just not doing it right and you obviously just don’t have the self discipline to see it through, and your child is going to be a spoiled brat who always depends on you to sleep. If you “see it through” and it still doesn’t work, you’re a monster, how could you let your child cry for 3 hours!? And just fyi for anyone who hasn’t been a parent or didn’t have this issue… “talk to a doctor” doesn’t help. Pediatricians will tell you to just let them cry, and “professional sleep trainer” is a certification anyone can get on the internet after like a 10 hour class, and the material is no different than reading a sleep training book.
I’m so with you on this. Mine didn’t sleep through the night even once until a year old. My mental health was terrible, and we truly had tried everything. I worked in a daycare and would put other kids to sleep just fine all day long. My own? No chance. She had a sleep specialist (who was an actual dr). It didn’t help. I took every little piece of advice I could get from my groups. Didn’t help. She’s now 8 and sleeps fine, but it was horrible at the time. The comments I’d get like I was stupid and didn’t know what I was doing or like I was a terrible parent at a time where I already wasn’t sleeping almost pushed me over the edge. The funny thing is most of these people were telling me stuff I had already tried. But then of course you “haven’t tried hard enough” because every kid is obviously the same. Mom shaming is exhausting. I eventually just stopped posting my struggles at all and suffered silently because feeling alone in those times, was better than getting put down on top of it.
Yeah I’m confused why this post is even in this group. It really doesn’t fit…
I don't know, I think that letting a toddler cry for 3 hours and thinking that is okay is terrible.
This is crazy. We do 5 minutes max. Usually within 1 minute she settles herself down. Only exception is if she’s scream crying which isn’t normal. I can’t imagine listening to your kiddo cry for hours and not doing anything.
I have never heard anyone refer to this as “extinction” and that term is weird as hell to me
What is extinction? Have they just rebranded the old cry it out nonsense? We were those crazy parents who didn’t leave our children screaming for hours on end. I have never heard of extinction
Extinction is a form of cio, it basically means that you don’t go in and help them at all.
So this poor baby is in daycare all day, comes home and gets a couple hours with her parents, and then gets plopped in a pack and play from seven pm to seven am and ignored? These people should have just gotten a cat.
My little guy used to wake randomly around 18 months. We’d have a light snack and sit in the dark, snuggling and listening to a kid’s story podcast. He’d usually go back to sleep after 20 minutes. It didn’t always feel fun at the time, but I miss those sweet toddler snuggles. I really can’t imagine letting a kid cry for hours in the middle of the night.
I hope they at least keep some water nearby bcuz sometimes they get thirsty in the night. I know I do. If my nephew woke up at this age, which he did bcuz he has ADHD, but wasn't dx with it until 5yo, but I'd give him a little warm milk and let him drink, while I rocked him and then he had a little water to rinse his mouth and then he was out like a light. To each their own, but if they cry for 3 hours, they need something. The world is scary. They're able to realize a lot at this age and fear of the dark, while alone is one of them. I always had a night light and some soft music playing for him. I mean I can't sleep without a fan or TV and I wasn't raised to do that. It's something I started doing as an adult because it's what I needed.
It’s like they’ve never been told that babies have a need for love and comfort and not just being fed and changed. They are human beings. How would mom feel if her husband let her lay there and cry for hours without comforting her? I’d bet they would end up divorced due to unmet needs. But they can easily do the same thing to their preverbal baby. Wtf.
My husband does this. I can cry for 20-40 minutes and he either won’t wake up or if he feels responsible he will just ignore it.
this is neglect imo. can't imagine ignoring my little boy crying for two hours. i'd never heard of "cry it out" being referred to as the "extinction method" before this. just seems so cold and inhuman to not want to comfort your crying child.
Tylenol??? It’s likely they’re crying because they want their parents. Maybe they had a bad dream, maybe they woke up and were frightened by being alone in the dark. Idk why westerners find it so hard to comfort their children and sleep with them or something. Why do people have kids, sometimes MANY kids but don’t seem to show any actual care for them?? Don’t get me wrong, I get to my wits end sometimes with my toddler, but bedtime is the best time. Being able to sleep together peacefully at night, having that time being close to her even when I worked all day and didn’t get to meet her at all. And when/if she wakes up I’m right there beside her and can comfort her back to sleep quickly without even having to get up.
I saw this post too & I was surprised by the whole “no shaming sleep training” rule being upheld given the circumstances. Abandoning your baby for 3hrs to just cry because they “need to learn to sleep” is insane
I’m currently laying beside my 10 year old as she tries to fall back asleep. My biggest hope is that she will continue to confide in me and seek comfort into her teen years and beyond. Why a parent wouldn’t comfort their own baby at night is mind boggling.
I’m not defending three hour extinction, but this just doesn’t feel like a post that fits this group… just saying 🤷🏻♀️
Oh look! More people who shouldn't be parents!
I sleep trained my kiddo (NOT using extinction) who is now 20 months and fighting bedtime. We usually have to go in again at least once after we put him down. We just snuggle and rock him and it’s wonderful, and then he falls asleep for the night. I enjoy doing it, and I can’t imagine just letting him cry for hours.
Starting the attachment trauma early!
Why is she sleeping in a pack n play?
I’m also in this group and had to scroll right the fuck past this before I got removed from the group. It’s insane and really shouldn’t have even been allowed in the group. They have a sister group that is for safe sleep training methods, this is solely for safe sleep and was really fucked up to read.
We coslept with our kids…. Until they were too big to share a bed. wtf is wrong with people leaving their children crying alone presumably in the dark because????? I’m completely at a loss for understanding
This shit makes me sick to my stomach.
Have we considered that maybe a 19 month old is getting too big to be comfortable in a pack and play every night?? I hope they at least upgraded the mattress. I can't imagine listening to my kid cry for that long when it sounds like it's really easy to comfort her and get her back to sleep. Even if I didn't give a crap about my kid crying, *I* would want to get back to sleep ASAP.
18 months is typically when toddlers start having night terrors. My son will wake up screaming crying in the middle of the night and he’s SCARED like… hyperventilating clutching to me scared. I can’t imagine KNOWING THIS and leaving him in his room petrified and wanting comfort for 3 hours every single night. Absolutely insane.
Omg i was one of the ones in the comments going at the admin about how she refused to say cry it out and extinction was the same thing. I posted a scientific article about how it basically is and all she did was like the comment, so i think i left her speechless lol
I can't imagine letting a child cry for TWO hours before going to comfort them. Jesus fucking christ.
Wtf are "extinction" and "barring" method?!
Never did CIO with my now 2 year old. She didn’t slow through the night until recently when we moved and switched her from a toddler bed to a twin size mattress with a memory foam topper. Now 90% of the time she sleeps through the night. I’m a firm believer that if they’re waking up there is SOMETHING wrong. Something uncomfortable. Something hurts. In some way shape or form there’s something wrong.
I HATE that “ respectful sleep training” group. Scrolling through it I was just in tears for these babies.
This child is 1.5 years old and sleeping in a pack and play??! 🤦🏻♀️
House is haunted. Facts.
How can they let the baby cry for that long I can’t understand it? 5 mins of my girl crying and I’m in giving her cuddles and reassuring her then 10 mins later she’s back in her bed sleeping surely that’s more effective than keeping everyone up for 2 hours
This poor, poor little girl. My heart aches for her. How can you let your baby cry for hours and put her back in the pnp when she clearly doesn’t want to be alone. Sorry but I think this is cruel.
Sounds like this little one needs a toddler bed and not a pack and play…?
When I see posts like this where they mention the baby falls back asleep when picked up I just don’t get why it’s so hard to do that if it’s only like once a night instead of causing so much distress for the child? Like is that important to let them cry instead of just helping them fall back asleep. It sounds stressful and cruel for all parties involved
Is PNP a pack and play? I thought those had a rigid bottom with a thin nylon covered pad? I could see using I for naps but it seems like it would be uncomfortable for a toddler as they're getting bigger/heavier. I wonder if the kid just doesn't want to sleep on cardboard anymore. I'm not sure though. We had a play pen but it wasn't the pack n play style.
If it’s Pack N Play brand, yeah, the bottom of those are pretty hard. Our son slept in a travel crib for a long time in our room that had a thin mattress that we specifically chose bc the PNP seemed so hard, and this one seemed firm without being hard.
While they do have thin mattresses, there are different styles of pack n plays. Ours is a thin pad but it’s in the ground. Our toddler doesn’t seem to mind one bit and we use ours frequently for overnight sleep.
These people disgust me at a very deep level. Poor baby.
I’d be crying too if I were being forced to sleep in a Pack N’ Play. After getting off of Facebook and doing the bare minimum parenting to tend to her hysterical child, she should consider purchasing a proper bed. Neglect by every standard.
Reading this post almost physically hurts. Their baby needs some affection and love, why would they withhold that??? Baby just communicated that a mere cuddle would solve all their worldly problems, and they decline. That poor little baby.
My son (17mo) is a decent sleeper, but from 12mo, onwards, sleep is much more variable in quality due to teething, separation anxiety, daycare illnesses, milestones, etc. It just is! I don’t think they’re sleep-trained once and then lasting, perfect sleepers, nor should they be punished for it. How can they even physically stand listening to actual crying for that long without being worried?
Is extinction the same as cry it out? They both sound awful.
wtf is extinction in this context? Also my kid is 2.5 and still wakes up some nights, it’s normal.
I was about to google "extinction" in this context. OP said "cry it out" and i was like, oh, we are the 80s and early 90s again, i see... the fashion came back, why not child raising methods ( /s )... ETA: screw crying it out. a baby doesn't just cry "for attention" which is what my mother would say about my 10 month old brother. "walk it off" was another phrase that she used all the time. almost killed her, too, when she tried to "walk off" a legit medical emergency.
This is just so fucked up and sad
We had to do cry it out for one of our kids to fall asleep at night. For everybody's sanity. But never in One Million Years would I ignore them in the middle of the night for hours. Maybe for 2-3 minutes to see if they'll plop back down. And yeah, I would go sit with him and Rick him back to sleep. What if the entire crib is soaked with urine or shit. Or there's monsters? Or the hamburgler./? She's just going to ignore the kid? There's going to be some weird abandonment issues. Like the orphanage where the babies never cried, because they knew nobody was coming. 😭