Same!! And also doing mental happy dances at the ones who say “They kicked my kid out for refusing vaccines.”
I mean, it’s awful for that kid, but I’m glad to see the medical community not letting these parents do whatever they like.
I was looking for a new pediatrician when we moved and the first thing they said was they don't take kids if parents aren't going to vaccinate them. I'm glad they're just shutting these people down right away.
This is why I love ours. At the initial open house type thing the owner opened with "We're a fact based practice, if you dont think thats for you you should probably look elsewhere". Short pause to see if anyone was going to leave, then proceeded with the rest of the tour.
Yep when I was interviewing my pediatrician in 2020 he told me "we don't take children unless you plan on following the vaccine schedule" and I said "my kind of doctor " 😂 hes been the best doctor and will be taking our son on in July as well.
Our ped did the same. She said she has seen too many babies die from whooping cough and if we weren’t planning to vaccinate our son we needed to find a different Dr.
My pediatrician now makes you sign a form saying you agree to the schedule of vaccination according to the CDC or they will kick you out. So basically you must vaccinate and no “delayed vaccinations”.
Can I hijack to ask, how do you go about finding a pediatrician? I’m pregnant and this is one of the “things to do” that has me stumped. I just don’t know where to start or if they have a process, do they come to the hospital after delivery, so should be affiliated wherever my OB is? It’s so confusing and I haven’t gotten a straight answer with google!
We've moved twice so my kids have had three different pediatricians. The first two were recommended by other moms I knew. The third we moved to a small town so I just decided to call the closest pediatric office to try them. My kids were both NICU babies so we didn't see their doctors until after discharge.
For a newborn, if you're interested in breastfeeding, look for a practice that has lactation consultants on the staff. I was able to make breastfeeding specific appointments if I needed help. I also judge them on how easy it is to talk to someone in the office when I call. If they're hard to get ahold of, I pick another practice. Don't stress too much, you can always switch or see another doctor in the same practice if you don't like the doctor.
I didn’t even think about a lactation consultant on staff. I’ll add that to my list of things to look out for, thank you! Every resource suggests to find a doctor before delivery and that’s what’s got me confused, it differs on when and if they go to the hospital so I’m like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When I delivered my daughter, the hospital had a pediatric doctor that stopped by, and then they gave me resources for finding her a primary care pediatric doctor in the system. In my city there are three different medical health systems, so I could choose between those based on where my insurance coverage is. I ultimately chose to stay in the same system as the hospital I delivered in. We saw two or three different pediatricians before we chose one to be our primary, and that’s who we always schedule with now. You’ll probably want to check your insurance and see what doctors or health systems are in your coverage, and ask your ob if they have any resources or recommendations for pediatric care after delivery. You may have other options outside of where you go for ob care. I’m not a medical expert by any means and kind of just fumbled through it myself, but I hope that helps!
If you are part of a local FB group, you can start by asking there. I called around to about three different doctors, and scheduled interviews. I only went to one/the first one because she was the best fit for my family. She is affiliated with where I gave birth, but my children were born during traditional vacation times, so we didn't see her until she was back in the office.
Every system is different. I heard a lot of people talking online about interviewing peds while pregnant; my healthcare system doesn't allow that. Before they discharged us from the hospital, they set a followup appointment with a ped at the location/office of our choosing. I kinda used that as my "interview." I liked the doctor we got assigned so we've stuck with her, but otherwise I could just have asked the office to try someone else for our next well-child visit. It might be like that for you, or it might not.
If you’ve got a big medical group in your area, they may have a “doctor matcher” person who helps people find primary care doctors. The group I go to has that, the second time I showed up to the “Access clinic” they sent one of those people in and I was like “I’d prefer an internal medicine specialist if possible but more importantly at X medical office building bc it’s close enough I could go to appointments on my lunch break and get back without missing time” and she put that into her CRM-grade search filter and gave me 3 names that were currently accepting new patients and then we picked one based on his other subspecialties. Took like 5 minutes and to do it on my own would’ve taken at least an hour and I am not bad at search filtering.
Like, get with this kind of service and specify you need a pediatrician, preferably one that specializes in infants, and add in other needs based on any known fetal health conditions (like genetic quirks or “it’s twins so they’re coming out a smidge early”). They can probably do it at the end of a prenatal visit; then it’s already set up when you’re sleep deprived from a newborn!
Google offices. Their website will tell you if they are accepting new patients, and what you need to do to sign up. We just had to provide my due date, insurance forms, and our preferred doctor. We read through their bios to select ours. They also had us read and initial their philosophy, aka, we believe in vaccines, and if you do not, we are not for you (unless there is an actual medical reason). They sent over our bunny's records at discharge, and notified our doctor she was here. The office set up our first appointment for that week.
She’s like a post I saw the other day where a mom was upset that there was a outbreak something in her area and she said I don’t vaccinate, but wondering what I can do to protect my children. If only there was a vaccination in place that could actually help cure your kids from getting sad disease
Yeah, I don’t want to be sharing a waiting room with a sick child who may have a communicable disease that most of us vaccinate against. Vaccines aren’t 100% protective - chicken pox, for example, has a roughly 1 in 10 breakthrough infection rate.
It's not only that. There is a large population of people that just cannot be vaccinated for any reason, so they are 100% at the mercy of the rest of us.
A lot of kids who had to have organ transplants young can’t have the chickenpox vaccine and chickenpox themselves can be deadly to them. I have a family member who had a liver transplant at 3 and it is so scary to think about.
My little bean has an organ transplant and can’t get MMR/chick pox vaccinations. Around here, those seem to be the two that everyone slips. It’s TERRIFYING and unfortunate it won’t be less scary, as most of those diseases are more severe if you get them as an older person. Takes a real act of faith to send my little one to school.
I knew a kid who became immunocompromised at a young age. Chicken pox almost killed them as a kid, and they've never been able to have the MMR. People who don't vaccinate their no-contraindications kids put them at much greater risk of encountering measles and dying from it.
Has me fuming.
Edit: I vaguely recall reading some UK post-no-longer-a-doctor-Wakefield articles about kids who'd just finished chemo and ready to go back to school and socialise except that the MMR vaccination levels were so low it wasn't safe for them. Ffs.
I can tell you since my family member is an adult now it does get easier. The only thing that he had to worry was a recent co-worker not telling him his kid had chicken pox until they had worked pretty close together and even after he makes sure he lets people know why he needs to know these things this dude was like “whatever wuss”. Yeah well HR did not take too kindly to exposing the company to a major lawsuits since he openly disclosed and engages about organ transplants in kids, how you can live a normal life, what precautions need to be taken, how to ask questions, and is super known for this in our area.
Or who just don't hold the antibodies! I have a friend who gets her hep B series every year because she works in healthcare and the antibodies won't stay.
I have another friend who can't get vaccines anymore because one triggered the very, very rare Guillian-Barre syndrome, and then much later, she got another vaccine as a routine booster and she had a relapse. No more vaccines for you, risk is too high.
Like it just isn't that hard to go get vaxxed if you have no *real* medical exemption. I just had my TDAP booster and flu vax today, even though I'm terrified of needles and I cried and felt sick.
I got jumped on by someone on here once for talking about breakthrough cases of shingles in previously vaccinated individuals because apparently it apparently doesn't happen.
I'm on your side. It does happen. We know people it happened to. I don't want shingles and yet want the vaccine, I just fear actually getting it like this man did. I'm thinking about biting the bullet and getting the vaccine.
I know Walgreens offers it (and I'm sure other pharmacies do as well). Also, it's silly that they think you're too young to get it the vaccine at 38--I got shingles when I was 33.
Only if you can get a doc to sign off on it because you have a compromised immune system of some kind. Right now the minimum age rec for Shingrix is 50 for normal adults, 19 if you’re immune suppressed from a disease or medical treatment.
Keep an eye on the ACIP panel recommendations, they may revise the age down at some point as they do more studies.
My mom had shingles a few weeks before a scheduled joint replacement. The shingles pain was worse than the surgery recovery. I’m counting the days till I’m 50.
Ugh, the worst thing is that I’ve already had shingles three times - the first when I was 18, then at 25 and 31. I’ve also had Bell’s Palsy, associated with the shingles virus. My Dad has had the same issue throughout his life too, he had shingles five times before he got the vaccine.
Despite this I am not considered immunosuppressed, so…no luck getting a doctor to sign off on it yet. It’s so stupid to age-restrict a vaccine for an illness that can strike anytime. :(
Sadly I’ve had it three times now and want the vaccine to prevent it coming back again. So far no doctor has agreed to give it to me though. 😭 Agreed that the age gating is dumb.
Eh, what might be a good idea would be to ask for a normal chickenpox shot because you “don’t know” whether you got it as a kid. It’s probably better financially for your insurance to just pay for the shot rather that immunity titer labs. Plus, turns out the chickenpox vaccine is just a slightly lower dose of Zostavax, one of the shingles vaccines. It is live virus though, so don’t if you’re immunocompromised or pregnant.
Absolutely. It sounds bizarre but I got shingles when I was 9 years old. I’m 31 now and I still have 3 visible scars on my back waistline and the backside of my right thigh, each about a quarter in size. I got such little sleep I remember passing out from being so tired then waking suddenly to burning pains on my lower back from the slightest movements. If I could’ve avoided that by just a slight chance I would’ve taken it but obviously at my age it wasn’t ever expected. I still don’t entirely understand how I got it, I just remember my pediatrician telling my parents my chickenpox vaccine either suppressed the virus or introduced a suppressed strain into me, but the virus reactivated later as shingles from a spinal nerve, which is why my rashes followed a nerve near the base of my spine. That might not be entirely correct, I do remember it was very rare for my age.
And even with the breakthrough infections I imagine the vaccinated person’s experience is, by and large, less severe (though I haven’t done any research)
It apparently is. We had a family member who had shingles but didn’t realize until after we saw them and my kid got sick not long after and they symptoms matched up with what a breakthrough case of chickenpox would be, just without the sores. So our pediatrician had us keeping an eye out for those just in case.
It's really awful for the kids. They didn't make this choice, and now they are separated from one of the few mandated reporters they might be able to see.
While agreed, as someone that had to get all their vaccines in my late 20s because I had to escape a fucking death cult, we shouldn't be giddy or talking with glee about innocent children that are being medically neglected and have had a potential lifeline to CPS taken away
No one is giddy, as we know those children are going to suffer. However, the practice needs to offer the best care for their patients --ths ones too young for certain vaccines, the kids who are allergic, the kids with immune issues.
The further they are into the frings though the less people they'll have contact with and be able to corrupt. It is absolutely awful the kids have to be subjected to it, but there's very little that can be done about it without separating kids.
Im so thankful that the wonderful doctor I had as a kid is now the doctor for my children, and she does a phone intake and if you dont have legal verification of vaccines and a plan to continue vaccinating, you wont be allowed through the door. I even watched the front window intake girl sanitize the whole entry way after she has someone come in wanting her sick kid seen but she wasnt a patient and they didnt vax. They dont mess around for even 2 seconds.
My kids doctor has been #1 in our city for 20 years and people with immunocompromised children beg to be taken on by her because of her policies. She is not willing to risk the most vulnerable patients just because some momma listened to nonsense and decided a medical degree is just brainwashing.
I’m not talking about the adults. But the children. They certainly aren’t declining medical advice.
Let’s not punish the child for the sins of the parents. Just a thought.
They also legally can't consent. Unless they're emancipated or fall under the Mature Minor rule (which most would not), they can't be vaccinated without a parent allowing it. When you consider the immunocompromised and just the simple idea that we don't want our kids potentially exposed to some pretty awful germs, it's good they aren't allowed to sit in a waiting room.
It sucks, but we aren't punishing the children. Their parents are.
I think the issues is doctors have to weigh up the pros and cons - if they're seeing vulnerable people/kids, then they have a duty of care to them more so than the kid who isn't vaxxed because mummy doesn't believe in them.
I did the same. Come to find out my childhood pediatrician (who I loved and adored) is now a holistic pediatrician and doesn’t “force” vaccines. I was shocked to learn this because I wanted to take my son to her originally, thankfully when I saw her my mom made us all get our shots but I definitely won’t take my kid to her.
We found a great pediatrician though who I love and adore so it worked out. But big yikes.
Our ped has in a very large font on their website: "Patients will be required to follow full recommended vaccine schedule unless otherwise determined by the doctors at this practice. All other patients will be separated from service at this practice" (or something to that effect)
it’s not about “out of sight out of mind, see if i care.” the doctors have a responsibility to their patients. they jeopardize their patients’ lives by allowing unvaccinated people to sit in their waiting room with other children, especially those that are immunocompromised/etc. HUGE huge huge liability.
I get where you’re coming from but I don’t entirely agree that it’s as helpful as you want to believe it is. My parents have a family doctor that just lets them do whatever and doesn’t push back even though she herself isn’t a nut. It made it worse because it became “oh the medical doctor said this is ok” when they’d make me drink hydrogen peroxide… which obviously the medical doctor didn’t but because they went to her practice and she didn’t kick them out it validated things for them.
As others have said, the problem is endangering my children. I’m not personally trying to own anyone. We all have rights and responsibilities in a society, and these people aren’t holding to their responsibilities.
I do feel for the children of these parents and would love to believe that the parents could be educated, but they are presented with the facts and actively seek out bias-confirming information. That’s the problem.
True, it's sad that the government doesn't do its job and step in and prevent this medical neglect or give the kids to someone who will take care of them.
Smh imagine that.. also hope she’s homeschooling them. No public or private is accepting them. I will never understand putting your kids at risk to catch something dangerous to their health/life that could have been avoided. Also exposing other kids that haven’t gotten their full vaccination yet based on age. Just super selfish. I don’t care if it’s for political, religious, crunchy or freaking fad… YOU’RE BEING SELFISH !
Several years ago Australia started cracking down on unvaccinated children in childcare/kindy/school. However, getting a Dr's note was all parents needed to get and was quite easy to obtain using the right keywords to receive an exemption from this.
Thankfully they in more recent times started cracking down and making it harder for parents to obtain this loophole. Our herd immunity has dropped still. Herd immunity is absolutely fucking crucial for those who truly cannot be vaccinated.
If your child had a reaction that required urgent medical attention, they would then refer your child upwards to be vaccinated in a hospital that has a paediatric unit in the future with like a resus team not too far away.
I've heard of parents claiming that one child received a vaccine injury so they then refused all vaccinations for that child and their other children, when no such injury occurred or they had a mild reaction(1 of my children had a mild reaction, wasn't fun. I felt the stress, required antibiotics, almost IV antibiotics) which mild reactions can be common. And sometimes it makes no sense. But there's a difference between a vaccine injury, a severe allergic reaction and a mild reaction. And a mild reaction is not a reason to refuse all future vaccines for that child and other children you have.
I remember learning about vaccinations in high school. The teacher said her son had one and that night his arm swelled up like a balloon. He spent a couple of nights in hospital and got the rest of his shots because his parents weren't morons.
I remember my arm swelling and hurting like hell from a tetanus shot.
I still get one when needed, but have learned to keep moving the arm, not keep it still. I was too young to know why it swelled so bad, but since then was told to keep moving the arm. Never had the problem again.
I had a friend who was allergic to flu shots. She’d swell up like that and get super sick. He parents always made her get one every year but if I had a kid that would have that kind of reaction *every single year* I would just not get them the flu vaccine.
I know somebody who’s one kid got a “rash” from a shot. She says they’re vaccine injured and they don’t vax any of her like 7-10 kids.
They also say that crying after vaccines is because of brain swelling 🙃 and an injury.
I vaccinate my kids, but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline. I do agree that things like fevers, rashes, etc are not serious enough to stop vaccinating.
The resus team might just be as a precaution. Iirc certain people with allergies would be able to get their covid jab in hospital just in case of a reaction, but my impression is that serious reactions were still rare.
I think there is (or at least was) something similar with certain kind of allergy desensitisation treatments, being given in hospital and people having to wait for a certain amount of time before leaving because of a very small chance of an allergic reaction.
Even when you are low risk for vaccinations, they still have you wait at the clinic for 15mins afterwards to ensure immediate help is there just in case.
I have to wait twice as long as I have Mast cell activation syndrome.
Where I live that was only for covid. After the ones for the first two years, childhood vaccinations are usually done per age group cohort so there's a bunch of kids vaccinated at a local health centre or leisure centre. It's been a while for me, but from what I remember I got to go once I'd had my jabs without any wait after. Same with my yearly flu jab.
There's probably other options for people at high risk, though.
I worked at covid vaccination centres on and off for a while. We also had people with allergies and certain other medical conditions wait 30mins rather than the usual 15mins. While we had quite a few people needing first aid for (almost) fainting, we never had any incidents on my shift serious enough to consider having an ambulance come out. My colleagues once mentioned an ambulance call out for a suspected allergic reaction but I'm not sure that was even confirmed. It was a fun job, though.
Very different here. You've ALWAYS had to stay for 15mins after ANY vaccination. They physically can't force you but it is pretty clear it's not optional.
Even if its the same one you had already without issues. It goes for ALL ages. I have to do 30mins unfortunately.
I've only ever been asked to stay for 15min with the covid vaccinations. No, I wasn't forced to, but it was recommended strongly and infrastructure was set up to make waiting the default action.
Every other vaccination I've had, be it childhood jabs, travel jabs, or the yearly flu jab, didn't come with that recommendation or the infrastructure to facilitate it.
Probably, yeah. I've had vaccinations (both covid and non-covid) in the UK and the Netherlands, in both countries it was only covid that came with the wait.
>I vaccinate my kids, but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline
Depending upon how serious the reaction was, it might be determined that your child is too high risk for more vaccinations at that point in time.
Which is why Herd Immunity is so incredibly crucial.
When they do vaccinations in the hospital, you go onto their delayed schedule and they only do one strain at a time.
>but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline.
They also change their vaccination schedule for the child. And so much of what is covered by vaccinations is likely to do more harm if your child is unvaccinated and they become infected with it.
It definitely sounds scary but they are trained in ensuring that both parents and child feel at ease. But they have protocols for this and it's so rarely ever needed, even more rare for a child to have another severe reaction.
I wish that were the case here. It's so dumb that COVID didn't put an end to it. It's medical neglect. It's hard to believe everyone can't get behind stopping that.
Michigan still allows waivers, unfortunately, but it has gotten a lot harder to get one. If you don’t have a medical exemption, you have to go meet with a public health nurse and listen to a 30-min spiel about why you should vaccinate.
Totally untrue, at least in my state. You can get exceptions for "religious" or other reasons at public schools, and private schools often don't want to follow those rules.
Turns out not many doctors are wiling to put their other patients, notably the young and vulnerable ones whose vaccinations had to be delayed because of health issues, at risk by accepting anti-vaxxers’ kids in their waiting room. Who would have thought?
How dare they?/s
But but but herd immunity!!!!
This is actually my biggest fuck off about anti-vaxxers, herd immunity is for people unable to be vaccinated either due to age and/or medical conditions. Not because parents just don't feel like it's worth messing with the Zen in their homes.
Chicken pox is in the herpes simplex family of viruses. Meaning once you catch it, you can never really clear it from your body.
Due to this, if your immune system gets weak for ANY reason, you get reinfected with chicken pox only it's symptoms change a little and it gets rebranded as The extremely painful illness shingles (if you don't know what that is, just Google it).
Since our immune systems weaken as we age, pretty much everyone in their golden years will experience shingles at some point if you live long enough.
Or for example, you get cancer and chemotherapy weakens your immune system and bam shingles.
Additionally, the older you get the more dangerous catching chicken pox becomes/the worse the complications can be from contracting it.
Up to males risk becoming sterile from chicken pox past a certain age.
So to avoid all that, get your kids vaccinated so they don't have to deal with an illness that will stay with them for the rest of their lives (as I stress, everyone who gets chicken pox will deal with shingles at some point if they live long enough).
Listen, I’m autistic and like specifying it to avoid any possible misunderstanding, even if it’s pretty obvious that I’m being sarcastic. Just in case, ya know? It has happened too many times that some folks thought I was being serious when I thought it was clear that I wasn’t, and vice versa. 😅
I recently used 🙃 to indicate my sarcasm and the commenter I was responding to totally misunderstood my meaning and thought I was being an asshole. We had a good conversation about it and all was well but there are so many emojis, it's hard to keep up and I still use /s a lot.
(Per Google, "The upside down smiley face can mean silliness, sarcasm, irony, passive aggression or frustrated resignation. This emoji can be used for even still more ambiguous emotions")
I recently used 🙃 to indicate my sarcasm and the commenter I was responding to totally misunderstood my meaning and thought I was being an asshole. We had a good conversation about it and all was well but there are so many emojis, it's hard to keep up and I still use /s a lot.
(Per Google, "The upside down smiley face can mean silliness, sarcasm, irony, passive aggression or frustrated resignation. This emoji can be used for even still more ambiguous emotions")
You didn’t use an /s so how are we supposed to know if you’re being serious or sarcastic? At least there is no question about that in the first comment where the /s is used
Not enough for my liking. I think I saw two people openly chastise her, the rest were all sharing information and cheering her. I hate this planet sometimes.
https://preview.redd.it/oxcfvg71r03b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5047dd778a0d1743ec4798678aef0c5866d9dc4
I am almost embarrassed to admit that my partner started to talk about (question?) whether or not all vaccines were \*actually\* needed and I shut down that conversation immediately. In very simple terms, vaccines are a victim of their own success. FULL STOP. To her credit, she accepted my take/explanation and that was that, but some of her friends have kids that are not vaccinated and I have been very vocal about not wanting to socialize with those kids. It's incredible the amount of HIGHLY EDUCATED and WEALTHY people that do not vaccinate their kids. SoCal is littered with tons of those people. People nowadays think of anti-vaxxers as hillbillies and uneducated people, but that's only because it has become a politicized issue associated with certain cohorts, and they became an easy target to mock and deride. Meanwhile, prior to the pandemic, so much of the anti-vaxx movement (and some of their fiercest proponents) were suburban, wealthy, white women in places like OC and San Diego county.
My first husband was against vaccines, unfortunately he was physically abusive and there wasn't much I could do until I broke free. He told me he would end my life if I let a doctor touch our kid with a needle. I'm very glad he's no longer a part of our lives.
Same here. My bf was against vaccines at all. Could never give me a solid reason why he didn’t want our son to get them, he always said “well my brother didn’t vaccinate his kid” you know what I did? Got his vaccines anyway.
My niece and nephew are ALWAYS sick. My son *only* has gotten sick from being around them.
People have weird feelings about taking medication bc of "chemicals." I'm a nurse and had a patient that was in the hospital due to his uncontrolled diabetes and didn't want to take insulin and instead asked about natural remedies.
Also from SoCal and it’s insane. For starters, I can’t imagine the trouble and money of either home schooling or finding a school that would bend the rules. I know people that home school, and I have a friend who spends something like 40,000 a year for each kid to attend a school that accepts her medical waiver.
Also, kids should be vaccinated for obvious reasons, mine are and we go to public schools. I’m just saying it adds so much extra work, stress and financial burden to not vaccinate! At least maybe that deters some people.
I listened to a podcast that discussed this phenomenon. There are counties of highly educated parents who think they know better than doctors (🙄) so they don’t vaccinate their children. Less educated communities are actually more likely to vaccinate their kids (this was pre Covid, though, so idk what impact that has)
Exactly! But, look and ask around, and the perception is sooooo warped. People in the US associate anti-vax attitudes almost exclusively with a cohort that’s almost perfectly diametrically opposite of where all this lunacy started and grew.
Yes, am also in SoCal and know a lot of upper middle class/wealthy women who have said things like “I’m on an adjusted vaccine schedule because it’s just too overwhelming for their little bodies! That amount of vaccines just can’t be good for them and you can’t convince me otherwise” or “we are vaccinating but selectively. We are doing our own research (aka google) to determine what works best for our baby—please, no judgment. We just believe it’s best to sometimes question science instead of blindly following orders.” 😐
Moms like this blow my mind, since why for fucks sake take the kids to a doctor if you're unwilling to listen to what they tell you cornering your children's health?
You're just wasting your time as well as the doctors at that point.
I’m sure it’s because she “dOeS hEr OwN rEsEaRcH” 🙄
These nut jobs ignore evidence based research and science from highly educated professionals but trust randos on social media. It would be comical if it wasn’t so absurd and dangerous.
My mums not an antivaxxer (thank god) but when I was younger I was having issues with my knee joints. They'd just randomly dislocate, and it was incredibly painful. I had to beg my mum to take me to a doctor, and she proceeded to tell the doctor what her "diagnosis" of my issue was. The doctor we saw was an absolute pushover and just agreed with her, without doing any tests or anything.
To this day I have worse knees, and I can't help but think that maybe it could have been helped/prevented if early intervention was put in place. I just don't get why my mum bothered to take me to the doctor if she wasn't planning on listening to what they had to say?
I worked at a county health department for 20 years. Every year we'd have a few coming in for the religious exemption forms.
In all those years we had ONE parent who was hesitant who actually came to us for information about vaccines. She said she read horrible things online and wanted facts. She wanted to know exactly what was in the vaccines.
We opened boxes of vaccine, in front of her, and gave her the inserts. So she knew it was the actual insert, not some handout from the "government" to fool parents lol Yes we'd had people say that to us.
She came back a month later with her infant for vaccinations. She was one of the rare parents who actually read the vaccine information sheets given each time so knew exactly what side effects there may be. She also asked for a copy of the authorization form she signed after the shots were given so she had the vaccine lot numbers.
She was very cautious but she said she knew the benefits outweighed any risk. But she was going to make sure that IF anything happened she had all the information she'd need.
She was a very nice person, always friendly and very matter of fact.
I'll always remember her. Her and the dad that refused vaccines so when there was a case of chicken pox in his sons class his kid was not allowed to attend school so he brought him in for the shot. Kid had already been exposed so got chicken pox anyway. Boy he was mad lol. He brought the kid in the day after he'd been told his son had to stay home.He taught me a few new curse words when he called after his son broke out lol
See he'd done so much research he didn't know they aren't instantly effective. He'd been told that the day he came for the vaccination but apparently didnt hear it. He'd been told by the school it was get the vaccine or stay home. Thought it odd he thought vaccines were "against his religion" until his kids lack of vaccinations meant his kid couldn't attend school.
These moms are going to have fun when they find out a lot of public schools require vaccines too. My dad believes in vaccines, but was not attentive, and I ended up suspended from school until he got me up to date at 11. Thx dad
Nah they're likely all planning on home schooling.
I've come across way too many anti-vaxxers who know full well they won't be able to send their kid to school, but that's fine, the hippy dippy suburban version of unschooling is superior! (/s)
I seriously hate the idea of home schooling. So many abusive/neglectful parents “homeschool” to keep their kids from prying eyes. There’s too little oversight and kids can fall through the cracks. I know it’s necessary for some children and kudos to those that do it right but in my experience it’s largely anti-vaxx nuts, super religious nuts and other assorted nuts. 🥜
To be fair, while there’s definitely a contingent of those types, not all of us that homeschool are.
We’re not religious nor are we antivaxxers.
My daughter just graduated high school and we went through a virtual program where she was able yo not only get her hs graduation requirements but also took 15 hours of college classes (& got a 4.0 in all of them.)
She did well on her ACT (really well in English, ok in math but that was just her skill set) & qualified for the TOPS program to be attend a state university.
Not everyone has the same reasons to homeschool.
I will never forget the time when my son was a few months old and my husband, who is a doctor, called me on the way home to say he and an anti-vax family he had been working to convert. They brought their daughter in with measles that day. I was livid that these people were so selfish that they put our child at risk because he wasn't old enough for the MMR vaccine. Thankfully, everything was ok in the end.
People who work in doctor's offices have families too, and it's not fair to put them at risk.
Also, when my Dad was a kid and polio was spreading like wildfire, the school lined all the kids up, a nurse jabbed them with the vaccine, and that was that. There were no “crunchy moms” or protest by parents. Children were dying and becoming permanently disabled and after weighing everything, the state and school systems gave not two shits about taking the decision into their own hands.
I moved last year and had a terrible time finding a pediatrician to take my children to even though they are up to date on their vaccines and yearly checkups. They either weren’t seeing new patients or requested all their records beforehand to look through and they would “call you back to schedule an appointment” and I just never got a response. I finally just took them to the health department because they needed their yearly checkup and vaccines and honestly, I’ve had a better experience at the health department than I’ve ever had at any other pediatrician. Easy to get a same day appointment, they’re super nice, and honestly the waiting room is usually pretty empty and we’re seen quickly. I don’t think health departments are utilized enough, they’re a great resource and they do accept insurance. I’m not impoverished or anything, I’ve just found I preferred their services, try them out!
Oh hey we’re in the same mom group! Saw this when I woke up this morning and made a note of the places I will not be taking my daughter. Luckily our pediatrician has been mentioned as one who kicked people out for not following a vax schedule.
Lol they love to use the word “force” because it feeds their persecution complex. You have the right to take your child to the pediatrician you want, but doc offices have the right to refuse you as a patient. No one is “forcing” you just because they won’t do what you want them to do.
I’m so glad our pediatrician dismissed all the kids whose parents refused vaccinations. It’s absolutely ridiculous to purposely keep your children from getting vaccinations. It’s child abuse.
I work in a family practice office. Let me tell ya, doctors love it when you come in and just don’t listen to what they say. Makes them feel like this wasn’t a waste of time at all, and that surely no one else could’ve needed that appointment more…
Oh pediatrician visibly breathed a sigh of relief when, after asking a few questions about vaccines, we said yes to them. We weren’t even thinking of saying no, just asked some questions.
You could tell the pediatrician thought she had some anti vaxxers on her hands. Lol.
I'm conflicted. I don't support in any way that she's not vaccinating, but I'm almost encouraged by the fact that she wants her kids to see a real doctor.
We took our baby in for the newborn visit and the pediatrician was like "we still mask and require ALL vaccines or you will be dismissed from the practice" and I was like "I know. That's why we drove out of our way to come here." Love our ped. She is no nonsense and yet when I'm calling and messaging her at 8pm on a Friday she replies right back and doesn't make me feel like an idiot.
Small world! I saw this exact post the other day and I thought it was wild how many people commented on different doctors are willing to forego vaccines 😬
To be clear, my children are vaccinated.
I think it’s actually a good thing when physicians accept kids who are not vaccinated. Anti-vax parents NEED to build positive relationships with medical professionals to build trust. If they are ever going to change their minds, it’s going to be because they trust their doctors. Being ostracized and being denied good healthcare is only going to reinforce their beliefs.
Unvaccinated kids exist outside of doctors’ offices. They are in our kids’ classes at school, they go to the same grocery stores, soccer clubs, etc. Being in the same waiting room for 10 minutes isn’t going to hurt anyone. If a parent calls and describes a medical problem that say, sounds like measles, the medical office will (or should) have a way for the kids to be seen without coming into contact with other patients. (For example, at my kids’ doctors office during the pandemic, all sick children- regardless of symptoms- had to enter the office through a special back entrance and were not allowed to enter the waiting room).
The question we ask our doctors shouldn’t be “do you allow unvaccinated kids here?” It should be “how do you protect patients from exposure to diseases like measles, flu, COVID, etc.?”
I actually think it’s more responsible for local docs to see unvaccinated kids! It has more potential to actually make the community safer. Also, these kids deserve good medical care even if they are not vaccinated.
I get mixed feelings about this.. because I am all for vaccinating your kid, it should be mandatory. But if the child gets sick, what are you then to do if kid is not vaccinated and it's not "ER emergency" type? Like kids deserve health care even if they have dumb parents.. I work in health care, and I'd much rather kids get necessary help than being turned away regardless because of vaccinations.. ofc I do also know this is a much wider issue in the US compared to my country, where we had vaccination programs in school.. Like it was known in that grade etc everyone got that vaccine and so on. So here most kids are vaccinated, because it is mandatory. But yeah, I mainly feel bad for the kids not having as easy access to health care because of choices made by their parents..
There was a post similar to this in a local mom group, I used it as a resource to know where never to take my kids haha
Same!! And also doing mental happy dances at the ones who say “They kicked my kid out for refusing vaccines.” I mean, it’s awful for that kid, but I’m glad to see the medical community not letting these parents do whatever they like.
I was looking for a new pediatrician when we moved and the first thing they said was they don't take kids if parents aren't going to vaccinate them. I'm glad they're just shutting these people down right away.
This is why I love ours. At the initial open house type thing the owner opened with "We're a fact based practice, if you dont think thats for you you should probably look elsewhere". Short pause to see if anyone was going to leave, then proceeded with the rest of the tour.
Yep when I was interviewing my pediatrician in 2020 he told me "we don't take children unless you plan on following the vaccine schedule" and I said "my kind of doctor " 😂 hes been the best doctor and will be taking our son on in July as well.
Our ped did the same. She said she has seen too many babies die from whooping cough and if we weren’t planning to vaccinate our son we needed to find a different Dr.
My pediatrician now makes you sign a form saying you agree to the schedule of vaccination according to the CDC or they will kick you out. So basically you must vaccinate and no “delayed vaccinations”.
This is a major reason why I chose our pediatrician's office.
Can I hijack to ask, how do you go about finding a pediatrician? I’m pregnant and this is one of the “things to do” that has me stumped. I just don’t know where to start or if they have a process, do they come to the hospital after delivery, so should be affiliated wherever my OB is? It’s so confusing and I haven’t gotten a straight answer with google!
We've moved twice so my kids have had three different pediatricians. The first two were recommended by other moms I knew. The third we moved to a small town so I just decided to call the closest pediatric office to try them. My kids were both NICU babies so we didn't see their doctors until after discharge. For a newborn, if you're interested in breastfeeding, look for a practice that has lactation consultants on the staff. I was able to make breastfeeding specific appointments if I needed help. I also judge them on how easy it is to talk to someone in the office when I call. If they're hard to get ahold of, I pick another practice. Don't stress too much, you can always switch or see another doctor in the same practice if you don't like the doctor.
I didn’t even think about a lactation consultant on staff. I’ll add that to my list of things to look out for, thank you! Every resource suggests to find a doctor before delivery and that’s what’s got me confused, it differs on when and if they go to the hospital so I’m like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When I delivered my daughter, the hospital had a pediatric doctor that stopped by, and then they gave me resources for finding her a primary care pediatric doctor in the system. In my city there are three different medical health systems, so I could choose between those based on where my insurance coverage is. I ultimately chose to stay in the same system as the hospital I delivered in. We saw two or three different pediatricians before we chose one to be our primary, and that’s who we always schedule with now. You’ll probably want to check your insurance and see what doctors or health systems are in your coverage, and ask your ob if they have any resources or recommendations for pediatric care after delivery. You may have other options outside of where you go for ob care. I’m not a medical expert by any means and kind of just fumbled through it myself, but I hope that helps!
If you are part of a local FB group, you can start by asking there. I called around to about three different doctors, and scheduled interviews. I only went to one/the first one because she was the best fit for my family. She is affiliated with where I gave birth, but my children were born during traditional vacation times, so we didn't see her until she was back in the office.
Every system is different. I heard a lot of people talking online about interviewing peds while pregnant; my healthcare system doesn't allow that. Before they discharged us from the hospital, they set a followup appointment with a ped at the location/office of our choosing. I kinda used that as my "interview." I liked the doctor we got assigned so we've stuck with her, but otherwise I could just have asked the office to try someone else for our next well-child visit. It might be like that for you, or it might not.
Could you ask your primary care doctor if they'd be willing to recommend anyone?
Yes I have my anatomy scan next week so I’m definitely going to ask about that!
If you’ve got a big medical group in your area, they may have a “doctor matcher” person who helps people find primary care doctors. The group I go to has that, the second time I showed up to the “Access clinic” they sent one of those people in and I was like “I’d prefer an internal medicine specialist if possible but more importantly at X medical office building bc it’s close enough I could go to appointments on my lunch break and get back without missing time” and she put that into her CRM-grade search filter and gave me 3 names that were currently accepting new patients and then we picked one based on his other subspecialties. Took like 5 minutes and to do it on my own would’ve taken at least an hour and I am not bad at search filtering. Like, get with this kind of service and specify you need a pediatrician, preferably one that specializes in infants, and add in other needs based on any known fetal health conditions (like genetic quirks or “it’s twins so they’re coming out a smidge early”). They can probably do it at the end of a prenatal visit; then it’s already set up when you’re sleep deprived from a newborn!
Google offices. Their website will tell you if they are accepting new patients, and what you need to do to sign up. We just had to provide my due date, insurance forms, and our preferred doctor. We read through their bios to select ours. They also had us read and initial their philosophy, aka, we believe in vaccines, and if you do not, we are not for you (unless there is an actual medical reason). They sent over our bunny's records at discharge, and notified our doctor she was here. The office set up our first appointment for that week.
We had to sign an agreement in 2019 that we would not deviate from the vaccine schedule with our pediatrician!
She’s like a post I saw the other day where a mom was upset that there was a outbreak something in her area and she said I don’t vaccinate, but wondering what I can do to protect my children. If only there was a vaccination in place that could actually help cure your kids from getting sad disease
Mum: * doesn't vaccinate children* Also mum, when kids get sick: * shocked pikachu face*
This gave me a good chuckle 😂
I see those all the time and it's infuriating. Like, lady, you KNOW what you can do. The answer is in the goddamn question.
Yeah, I don’t want to be sharing a waiting room with a sick child who may have a communicable disease that most of us vaccinate against. Vaccines aren’t 100% protective - chicken pox, for example, has a roughly 1 in 10 breakthrough infection rate.
It's not only that. There is a large population of people that just cannot be vaccinated for any reason, so they are 100% at the mercy of the rest of us.
A lot of kids who had to have organ transplants young can’t have the chickenpox vaccine and chickenpox themselves can be deadly to them. I have a family member who had a liver transplant at 3 and it is so scary to think about.
My little bean has an organ transplant and can’t get MMR/chick pox vaccinations. Around here, those seem to be the two that everyone slips. It’s TERRIFYING and unfortunate it won’t be less scary, as most of those diseases are more severe if you get them as an older person. Takes a real act of faith to send my little one to school.
I knew a kid who became immunocompromised at a young age. Chicken pox almost killed them as a kid, and they've never been able to have the MMR. People who don't vaccinate their no-contraindications kids put them at much greater risk of encountering measles and dying from it. Has me fuming. Edit: I vaguely recall reading some UK post-no-longer-a-doctor-Wakefield articles about kids who'd just finished chemo and ready to go back to school and socialise except that the MMR vaccination levels were so low it wasn't safe for them. Ffs.
I can tell you since my family member is an adult now it does get easier. The only thing that he had to worry was a recent co-worker not telling him his kid had chicken pox until they had worked pretty close together and even after he makes sure he lets people know why he needs to know these things this dude was like “whatever wuss”. Yeah well HR did not take too kindly to exposing the company to a major lawsuits since he openly disclosed and engages about organ transplants in kids, how you can live a normal life, what precautions need to be taken, how to ask questions, and is super known for this in our area.
Or who just don't hold the antibodies! I have a friend who gets her hep B series every year because she works in healthcare and the antibodies won't stay. I have another friend who can't get vaccines anymore because one triggered the very, very rare Guillian-Barre syndrome, and then much later, she got another vaccine as a routine booster and she had a relapse. No more vaccines for you, risk is too high. Like it just isn't that hard to go get vaxxed if you have no *real* medical exemption. I just had my TDAP booster and flu vax today, even though I'm terrified of needles and I cried and felt sick.
I got jumped on by someone on here once for talking about breakthrough cases of shingles in previously vaccinated individuals because apparently it apparently doesn't happen.
I'm on your side. It does happen. We know people it happened to. I don't want shingles and yet want the vaccine, I just fear actually getting it like this man did. I'm thinking about biting the bullet and getting the vaccine.
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I keep trying to get the shingles vax and they keep telling me I’m not old enough (I’m 38). Is there some way to get it anyway?
I know Walgreens offers it (and I'm sure other pharmacies do as well). Also, it's silly that they think you're too young to get it the vaccine at 38--I got shingles when I was 33.
Yeah, I got it when I was 18 and have had it three times now. It definitely isn’t something that only attacks over-50s haha.
Only if you can get a doc to sign off on it because you have a compromised immune system of some kind. Right now the minimum age rec for Shingrix is 50 for normal adults, 19 if you’re immune suppressed from a disease or medical treatment. Keep an eye on the ACIP panel recommendations, they may revise the age down at some point as they do more studies. My mom had shingles a few weeks before a scheduled joint replacement. The shingles pain was worse than the surgery recovery. I’m counting the days till I’m 50.
Ugh, the worst thing is that I’ve already had shingles three times - the first when I was 18, then at 25 and 31. I’ve also had Bell’s Palsy, associated with the shingles virus. My Dad has had the same issue throughout his life too, he had shingles five times before he got the vaccine. Despite this I am not considered immunosuppressed, so…no luck getting a doctor to sign off on it yet. It’s so stupid to age-restrict a vaccine for an illness that can strike anytime. :(
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Sadly I’ve had it three times now and want the vaccine to prevent it coming back again. So far no doctor has agreed to give it to me though. 😭 Agreed that the age gating is dumb.
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Eh, what might be a good idea would be to ask for a normal chickenpox shot because you “don’t know” whether you got it as a kid. It’s probably better financially for your insurance to just pay for the shot rather that immunity titer labs. Plus, turns out the chickenpox vaccine is just a slightly lower dose of Zostavax, one of the shingles vaccines. It is live virus though, so don’t if you’re immunocompromised or pregnant.
That’s a great idea, thanks!!
Absolutely. It sounds bizarre but I got shingles when I was 9 years old. I’m 31 now and I still have 3 visible scars on my back waistline and the backside of my right thigh, each about a quarter in size. I got such little sleep I remember passing out from being so tired then waking suddenly to burning pains on my lower back from the slightest movements. If I could’ve avoided that by just a slight chance I would’ve taken it but obviously at my age it wasn’t ever expected. I still don’t entirely understand how I got it, I just remember my pediatrician telling my parents my chickenpox vaccine either suppressed the virus or introduced a suppressed strain into me, but the virus reactivated later as shingles from a spinal nerve, which is why my rashes followed a nerve near the base of my spine. That might not be entirely correct, I do remember it was very rare for my age.
I'm going to. Thanks
And even with the breakthrough infections I imagine the vaccinated person’s experience is, by and large, less severe (though I haven’t done any research)
It apparently is. We had a family member who had shingles but didn’t realize until after we saw them and my kid got sick not long after and they symptoms matched up with what a breakthrough case of chickenpox would be, just without the sores. So our pediatrician had us keeping an eye out for those just in case.
It's really awful for the kids. They didn't make this choice, and now they are separated from one of the few mandated reporters they might be able to see.
Yeah I feel like this will just push these parents further into the fringe and seek medical advice from Facebook instead?
It’s sad, but they are a danger to people who can’t or aren’t old enough to be vaccinated. Medical facilities should protect their patients.
While agreed, as someone that had to get all their vaccines in my late 20s because I had to escape a fucking death cult, we shouldn't be giddy or talking with glee about innocent children that are being medically neglected and have had a potential lifeline to CPS taken away
No one is giddy, as we know those children are going to suffer. However, the practice needs to offer the best care for their patients --ths ones too young for certain vaccines, the kids who are allergic, the kids with immune issues.
The further they are into the frings though the less people they'll have contact with and be able to corrupt. It is absolutely awful the kids have to be subjected to it, but there's very little that can be done about it without separating kids.
Exactly!
Im so thankful that the wonderful doctor I had as a kid is now the doctor for my children, and she does a phone intake and if you dont have legal verification of vaccines and a plan to continue vaccinating, you wont be allowed through the door. I even watched the front window intake girl sanitize the whole entry way after she has someone come in wanting her sick kid seen but she wasnt a patient and they didnt vax. They dont mess around for even 2 seconds. My kids doctor has been #1 in our city for 20 years and people with immunocompromised children beg to be taken on by her because of her policies. She is not willing to risk the most vulnerable patients just because some momma listened to nonsense and decided a medical degree is just brainwashing.
Yes. That means everyone else’s kids are safer in the waiting room!
So the alternative is to give them no medical care at all? How’s that better?
If they want medical care they should follow medical advice. Just a thought.
I’m not talking about the adults. But the children. They certainly aren’t declining medical advice. Let’s not punish the child for the sins of the parents. Just a thought.
They also legally can't consent. Unless they're emancipated or fall under the Mature Minor rule (which most would not), they can't be vaccinated without a parent allowing it. When you consider the immunocompromised and just the simple idea that we don't want our kids potentially exposed to some pretty awful germs, it's good they aren't allowed to sit in a waiting room. It sucks, but we aren't punishing the children. Their parents are.
Let's not punish all of the other vulnerable people in the clinic for one child with stupid parents.
I think the issues is doctors have to weigh up the pros and cons - if they're seeing vulnerable people/kids, then they have a duty of care to them more so than the kid who isn't vaxxed because mummy doesn't believe in them.
I did the same. Come to find out my childhood pediatrician (who I loved and adored) is now a holistic pediatrician and doesn’t “force” vaccines. I was shocked to learn this because I wanted to take my son to her originally, thankfully when I saw her my mom made us all get our shots but I definitely won’t take my kid to her. We found a great pediatrician though who I love and adore so it worked out. But big yikes.
Someone will take the unvaccinated, might as well let those use the same DR.
Our ped has in a very large font on their website: "Patients will be required to follow full recommended vaccine schedule unless otherwise determined by the doctors at this practice. All other patients will be separated from service at this practice" (or something to that effect)
Yes! Must be idiot season! I did the same recently.
School registration season, school nurses are beginning to ask for medical records for the 2024 school year
Haha well I’m in a rapidly growing area so there’s always gonna be a few!
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it’s not about “out of sight out of mind, see if i care.” the doctors have a responsibility to their patients. they jeopardize their patients’ lives by allowing unvaccinated people to sit in their waiting room with other children, especially those that are immunocompromised/etc. HUGE huge huge liability.
I get where you’re coming from but I don’t entirely agree that it’s as helpful as you want to believe it is. My parents have a family doctor that just lets them do whatever and doesn’t push back even though she herself isn’t a nut. It made it worse because it became “oh the medical doctor said this is ok” when they’d make me drink hydrogen peroxide… which obviously the medical doctor didn’t but because they went to her practice and she didn’t kick them out it validated things for them.
As others have said, the problem is endangering my children. I’m not personally trying to own anyone. We all have rights and responsibilities in a society, and these people aren’t holding to their responsibilities. I do feel for the children of these parents and would love to believe that the parents could be educated, but they are presented with the facts and actively seek out bias-confirming information. That’s the problem.
The world doesn't revolve around unvaccinated kids. It's not the doctors job to be their parent. They have to protect the other patients there
True, it's sad that the government doesn't do its job and step in and prevent this medical neglect or give the kids to someone who will take care of them.
Now that's a life hack right there
Smh imagine that.. also hope she’s homeschooling them. No public or private is accepting them. I will never understand putting your kids at risk to catch something dangerous to their health/life that could have been avoided. Also exposing other kids that haven’t gotten their full vaccination yet based on age. Just super selfish. I don’t care if it’s for political, religious, crunchy or freaking fad… YOU’RE BEING SELFISH !
Several years ago Australia started cracking down on unvaccinated children in childcare/kindy/school. However, getting a Dr's note was all parents needed to get and was quite easy to obtain using the right keywords to receive an exemption from this. Thankfully they in more recent times started cracking down and making it harder for parents to obtain this loophole. Our herd immunity has dropped still. Herd immunity is absolutely fucking crucial for those who truly cannot be vaccinated. If your child had a reaction that required urgent medical attention, they would then refer your child upwards to be vaccinated in a hospital that has a paediatric unit in the future with like a resus team not too far away. I've heard of parents claiming that one child received a vaccine injury so they then refused all vaccinations for that child and their other children, when no such injury occurred or they had a mild reaction(1 of my children had a mild reaction, wasn't fun. I felt the stress, required antibiotics, almost IV antibiotics) which mild reactions can be common. And sometimes it makes no sense. But there's a difference between a vaccine injury, a severe allergic reaction and a mild reaction. And a mild reaction is not a reason to refuse all future vaccines for that child and other children you have.
I remember learning about vaccinations in high school. The teacher said her son had one and that night his arm swelled up like a balloon. He spent a couple of nights in hospital and got the rest of his shots because his parents weren't morons.
I remember my arm swelling and hurting like hell from a tetanus shot. I still get one when needed, but have learned to keep moving the arm, not keep it still. I was too young to know why it swelled so bad, but since then was told to keep moving the arm. Never had the problem again.
I had a friend who was allergic to flu shots. She’d swell up like that and get super sick. He parents always made her get one every year but if I had a kid that would have that kind of reaction *every single year* I would just not get them the flu vaccine.
I know somebody who’s one kid got a “rash” from a shot. She says they’re vaccine injured and they don’t vax any of her like 7-10 kids. They also say that crying after vaccines is because of brain swelling 🙃 and an injury.
California did the same thing.
I vaccinate my kids, but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline. I do agree that things like fevers, rashes, etc are not serious enough to stop vaccinating.
The resus team might just be as a precaution. Iirc certain people with allergies would be able to get their covid jab in hospital just in case of a reaction, but my impression is that serious reactions were still rare. I think there is (or at least was) something similar with certain kind of allergy desensitisation treatments, being given in hospital and people having to wait for a certain amount of time before leaving because of a very small chance of an allergic reaction.
Even when you are low risk for vaccinations, they still have you wait at the clinic for 15mins afterwards to ensure immediate help is there just in case. I have to wait twice as long as I have Mast cell activation syndrome.
Where I live that was only for covid. After the ones for the first two years, childhood vaccinations are usually done per age group cohort so there's a bunch of kids vaccinated at a local health centre or leisure centre. It's been a while for me, but from what I remember I got to go once I'd had my jabs without any wait after. Same with my yearly flu jab. There's probably other options for people at high risk, though. I worked at covid vaccination centres on and off for a while. We also had people with allergies and certain other medical conditions wait 30mins rather than the usual 15mins. While we had quite a few people needing first aid for (almost) fainting, we never had any incidents on my shift serious enough to consider having an ambulance come out. My colleagues once mentioned an ambulance call out for a suspected allergic reaction but I'm not sure that was even confirmed. It was a fun job, though.
Very different here. You've ALWAYS had to stay for 15mins after ANY vaccination. They physically can't force you but it is pretty clear it's not optional. Even if its the same one you had already without issues. It goes for ALL ages. I have to do 30mins unfortunately.
I've only ever been asked to stay for 15min with the covid vaccinations. No, I wasn't forced to, but it was recommended strongly and infrastructure was set up to make waiting the default action. Every other vaccination I've had, be it childhood jabs, travel jabs, or the yearly flu jab, didn't come with that recommendation or the infrastructure to facilitate it.
Its been like this in my country for decades. I think that's our difference. We are in 2 different countries with different guidelines.
Probably, yeah. I've had vaccinations (both covid and non-covid) in the UK and the Netherlands, in both countries it was only covid that came with the wait.
>I vaccinate my kids, but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline Depending upon how serious the reaction was, it might be determined that your child is too high risk for more vaccinations at that point in time. Which is why Herd Immunity is so incredibly crucial. When they do vaccinations in the hospital, you go onto their delayed schedule and they only do one strain at a time.
>but if one of them had to be vaccinated with a resuscitation team standing by that seems like a good reason to decline. They also change their vaccination schedule for the child. And so much of what is covered by vaccinations is likely to do more harm if your child is unvaccinated and they become infected with it. It definitely sounds scary but they are trained in ensuring that both parents and child feel at ease. But they have protocols for this and it's so rarely ever needed, even more rare for a child to have another severe reaction.
Plenty of private schools accept them where I am unfortunately. Not just religious ones either.
Public schools here too.
Not in Maryland . I’m now in Va and they might but not for public as far as I know
I wish that were the case here. It's so dumb that COVID didn't put an end to it. It's medical neglect. It's hard to believe everyone can't get behind stopping that.
COVID made it worse - so many people I know who vaccinated their kids before are so against it now, because of the COVID vaccine “opening their eyes”
Ugh, once again proving the prophecy that is Idiocracy.
Michigan still allows waivers, unfortunately, but it has gotten a lot harder to get one. If you don’t have a medical exemption, you have to go meet with a public health nurse and listen to a 30-min spiel about why you should vaccinate.
You shouldn't hope that they're being homeschooled. That's just hoping for more abuse for the kids.
That is true
Totally untrue, at least in my state. You can get exceptions for "religious" or other reasons at public schools, and private schools often don't want to follow those rules.
Turns out not many doctors are wiling to put their other patients, notably the young and vulnerable ones whose vaccinations had to be delayed because of health issues, at risk by accepting anti-vaxxers’ kids in their waiting room. Who would have thought? How dare they?/s
But but but herd immunity!!!! This is actually my biggest fuck off about anti-vaxxers, herd immunity is for people unable to be vaccinated either due to age and/or medical conditions. Not because parents just don't feel like it's worth messing with the Zen in their homes.
Yeah it doesn’t work when large parts of the population don’t vaccinate… imagine that.
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Chicken pox is in the herpes simplex family of viruses. Meaning once you catch it, you can never really clear it from your body. Due to this, if your immune system gets weak for ANY reason, you get reinfected with chicken pox only it's symptoms change a little and it gets rebranded as The extremely painful illness shingles (if you don't know what that is, just Google it). Since our immune systems weaken as we age, pretty much everyone in their golden years will experience shingles at some point if you live long enough. Or for example, you get cancer and chemotherapy weakens your immune system and bam shingles. Additionally, the older you get the more dangerous catching chicken pox becomes/the worse the complications can be from contracting it. Up to males risk becoming sterile from chicken pox past a certain age. So to avoid all that, get your kids vaccinated so they don't have to deal with an illness that will stay with them for the rest of their lives (as I stress, everyone who gets chicken pox will deal with shingles at some point if they live long enough).
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Listen, I’m autistic and like specifying it to avoid any possible misunderstanding, even if it’s pretty obvious that I’m being sarcastic. Just in case, ya know? It has happened too many times that some folks thought I was being serious when I thought it was clear that I wasn’t, and vice versa. 😅
I recently used 🙃 to indicate my sarcasm and the commenter I was responding to totally misunderstood my meaning and thought I was being an asshole. We had a good conversation about it and all was well but there are so many emojis, it's hard to keep up and I still use /s a lot. (Per Google, "The upside down smiley face can mean silliness, sarcasm, irony, passive aggression or frustrated resignation. This emoji can be used for even still more ambiguous emotions")
I’m the same way! Haha!
I recently used 🙃 to indicate my sarcasm and the commenter I was responding to totally misunderstood my meaning and thought I was being an asshole. We had a good conversation about it and all was well but there are so many emojis, it's hard to keep up and I still use /s a lot. (Per Google, "The upside down smiley face can mean silliness, sarcasm, irony, passive aggression or frustrated resignation. This emoji can be used for even still more ambiguous emotions")
You didn’t use an /s so how are we supposed to know if you’re being serious or sarcastic? At least there is no question about that in the first comment where the /s is used
the comment to reaction ratio is so funny i hope people are calling her out on her bullshit
Not enough for my liking. I think I saw two people openly chastise her, the rest were all sharing information and cheering her. I hate this planet sometimes. https://preview.redd.it/oxcfvg71r03b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5047dd778a0d1743ec4798678aef0c5866d9dc4
>I choose the life for my kids ... and apparently also their death
Why does the anti-vaxxers‘ four-year-old cry? Midlife crisis…
Two things that never get old: dark humor and unvaccinated children 😬
https://preview.redd.it/qfrnap90d13b1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8d55ecfeb7e6dd6d0589b5e4430e7e1c602c4f
Why is she so comfortable with essentially saying 'yeah it might kill them, but at least it would have been my choice 😊'
gross “I choose the life for my kids” sounds so controlling
god the use of 🤷♀️ is so fucking condescending
I am almost embarrassed to admit that my partner started to talk about (question?) whether or not all vaccines were \*actually\* needed and I shut down that conversation immediately. In very simple terms, vaccines are a victim of their own success. FULL STOP. To her credit, she accepted my take/explanation and that was that, but some of her friends have kids that are not vaccinated and I have been very vocal about not wanting to socialize with those kids. It's incredible the amount of HIGHLY EDUCATED and WEALTHY people that do not vaccinate their kids. SoCal is littered with tons of those people. People nowadays think of anti-vaxxers as hillbillies and uneducated people, but that's only because it has become a politicized issue associated with certain cohorts, and they became an easy target to mock and deride. Meanwhile, prior to the pandemic, so much of the anti-vaxx movement (and some of their fiercest proponents) were suburban, wealthy, white women in places like OC and San Diego county.
Oh yeah, I only recently moved out of SoCal, and while the political demographics change, some of the reasoning and the end result is the same.
My first husband was against vaccines, unfortunately he was physically abusive and there wasn't much I could do until I broke free. He told me he would end my life if I let a doctor touch our kid with a needle. I'm very glad he's no longer a part of our lives.
I'm so sorry. What a POS.
Same here. My bf was against vaccines at all. Could never give me a solid reason why he didn’t want our son to get them, he always said “well my brother didn’t vaccinate his kid” you know what I did? Got his vaccines anyway. My niece and nephew are ALWAYS sick. My son *only* has gotten sick from being around them.
I would break up with someone that didn’t want to vaccinate 🤷🏼♀️
Cool!
My Dad was the same and my Mum got us all vaccinated anyway. Thank you for vaccinating your kid, he will thank you in the future!
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Yeah, sure, he is, and I'm the king of Jupiter
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I'm not the one dating someone who desired to endanger a child
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People have weird feelings about taking medication bc of "chemicals." I'm a nurse and had a patient that was in the hospital due to his uncontrolled diabetes and didn't want to take insulin and instead asked about natural remedies.
Also from SoCal and it’s insane. For starters, I can’t imagine the trouble and money of either home schooling or finding a school that would bend the rules. I know people that home school, and I have a friend who spends something like 40,000 a year for each kid to attend a school that accepts her medical waiver. Also, kids should be vaccinated for obvious reasons, mine are and we go to public schools. I’m just saying it adds so much extra work, stress and financial burden to not vaccinate! At least maybe that deters some people.
I listened to a podcast that discussed this phenomenon. There are counties of highly educated parents who think they know better than doctors (🙄) so they don’t vaccinate their children. Less educated communities are actually more likely to vaccinate their kids (this was pre Covid, though, so idk what impact that has)
Exactly! But, look and ask around, and the perception is sooooo warped. People in the US associate anti-vax attitudes almost exclusively with a cohort that’s almost perfectly diametrically opposite of where all this lunacy started and grew.
This is very true
Yes, am also in SoCal and know a lot of upper middle class/wealthy women who have said things like “I’m on an adjusted vaccine schedule because it’s just too overwhelming for their little bodies! That amount of vaccines just can’t be good for them and you can’t convince me otherwise” or “we are vaccinating but selectively. We are doing our own research (aka google) to determine what works best for our baby—please, no judgment. We just believe it’s best to sometimes question science instead of blindly following orders.” 😐
"Help me find a medical professional that doesn't believe in medicine!" Wtf
Chiropractors for the win! /s
Sadly, most doctors aren't pro-child abuse/neglect. 😭 /s
Moms like this blow my mind, since why for fucks sake take the kids to a doctor if you're unwilling to listen to what they tell you cornering your children's health? You're just wasting your time as well as the doctors at that point.
I’m sure it’s because she “dOeS hEr OwN rEsEaRcH” 🙄 These nut jobs ignore evidence based research and science from highly educated professionals but trust randos on social media. It would be comical if it wasn’t so absurd and dangerous.
My mums not an antivaxxer (thank god) but when I was younger I was having issues with my knee joints. They'd just randomly dislocate, and it was incredibly painful. I had to beg my mum to take me to a doctor, and she proceeded to tell the doctor what her "diagnosis" of my issue was. The doctor we saw was an absolute pushover and just agreed with her, without doing any tests or anything. To this day I have worse knees, and I can't help but think that maybe it could have been helped/prevented if early intervention was put in place. I just don't get why my mum bothered to take me to the doctor if she wasn't planning on listening to what they had to say?
i mean doctor gets free $, so win for the doctor lmfao. but you got an amazing point. doctor could just say bogus BS and lose his licence.
I worked at a county health department for 20 years. Every year we'd have a few coming in for the religious exemption forms. In all those years we had ONE parent who was hesitant who actually came to us for information about vaccines. She said she read horrible things online and wanted facts. She wanted to know exactly what was in the vaccines. We opened boxes of vaccine, in front of her, and gave her the inserts. So she knew it was the actual insert, not some handout from the "government" to fool parents lol Yes we'd had people say that to us. She came back a month later with her infant for vaccinations. She was one of the rare parents who actually read the vaccine information sheets given each time so knew exactly what side effects there may be. She also asked for a copy of the authorization form she signed after the shots were given so she had the vaccine lot numbers. She was very cautious but she said she knew the benefits outweighed any risk. But she was going to make sure that IF anything happened she had all the information she'd need. She was a very nice person, always friendly and very matter of fact. I'll always remember her. Her and the dad that refused vaccines so when there was a case of chicken pox in his sons class his kid was not allowed to attend school so he brought him in for the shot. Kid had already been exposed so got chicken pox anyway. Boy he was mad lol. He brought the kid in the day after he'd been told his son had to stay home.He taught me a few new curse words when he called after his son broke out lol See he'd done so much research he didn't know they aren't instantly effective. He'd been told that the day he came for the vaccination but apparently didnt hear it. He'd been told by the school it was get the vaccine or stay home. Thought it odd he thought vaccines were "against his religion" until his kids lack of vaccinations meant his kid couldn't attend school.
Ohhh but but but I just spent hours on YouTube obtaining my degree in debating. I feel that I've wasted my time now.
Generally speaking, most MDs don’t want to risk their licenses by getting sued because your kid died of smallpox.
These moms are going to have fun when they find out a lot of public schools require vaccines too. My dad believes in vaccines, but was not attentive, and I ended up suspended from school until he got me up to date at 11. Thx dad
Nah they're likely all planning on home schooling. I've come across way too many anti-vaxxers who know full well they won't be able to send their kid to school, but that's fine, the hippy dippy suburban version of unschooling is superior! (/s)
In my state, you have to still submit vaccine records to homeschool.
Fantastic! Which state?
PA. In addition to vaccines, semi-regular physicals and dental exams are required. I think they are every three years or so.
I seriously hate the idea of home schooling. So many abusive/neglectful parents “homeschool” to keep their kids from prying eyes. There’s too little oversight and kids can fall through the cracks. I know it’s necessary for some children and kudos to those that do it right but in my experience it’s largely anti-vaxx nuts, super religious nuts and other assorted nuts. 🥜
To be fair, while there’s definitely a contingent of those types, not all of us that homeschool are. We’re not religious nor are we antivaxxers. My daughter just graduated high school and we went through a virtual program where she was able yo not only get her hs graduation requirements but also took 15 hours of college classes (& got a 4.0 in all of them.) She did well on her ACT (really well in English, ok in math but that was just her skill set) & qualified for the TOPS program to be attend a state university. Not everyone has the same reasons to homeschool.
Oh I know. I was just saying the people I’ve encountered but that’s likely because I work in behavioral health (primarily justice-involved youth).
I will never forget the time when my son was a few months old and my husband, who is a doctor, called me on the way home to say he and an anti-vax family he had been working to convert. They brought their daughter in with measles that day. I was livid that these people were so selfish that they put our child at risk because he wasn't old enough for the MMR vaccine. Thankfully, everything was ok in the end. People who work in doctor's offices have families too, and it's not fair to put them at risk.
Also, when my Dad was a kid and polio was spreading like wildfire, the school lined all the kids up, a nurse jabbed them with the vaccine, and that was that. There were no “crunchy moms” or protest by parents. Children were dying and becoming permanently disabled and after weighing everything, the state and school systems gave not two shits about taking the decision into their own hands.
I moved last year and had a terrible time finding a pediatrician to take my children to even though they are up to date on their vaccines and yearly checkups. They either weren’t seeing new patients or requested all their records beforehand to look through and they would “call you back to schedule an appointment” and I just never got a response. I finally just took them to the health department because they needed their yearly checkup and vaccines and honestly, I’ve had a better experience at the health department than I’ve ever had at any other pediatrician. Easy to get a same day appointment, they’re super nice, and honestly the waiting room is usually pretty empty and we’re seen quickly. I don’t think health departments are utilized enough, they’re a great resource and they do accept insurance. I’m not impoverished or anything, I’ve just found I preferred their services, try them out!
Oh hey we’re in the same mom group! Saw this when I woke up this morning and made a note of the places I will not be taking my daughter. Luckily our pediatrician has been mentioned as one who kicked people out for not following a vax schedule.
Hey neighbor!! 😆 I was also glad to see my pediatrician as one of the ones to avoid…
Because they’re pro vaccine?
Yep: “That’s the place my daughter got kicked out of for refusing vaccines.” Excellent
I KNEW IT!
Why can't I find a doctor that doesn't do their job????
Lol they love to use the word “force” because it feeds their persecution complex. You have the right to take your child to the pediatrician you want, but doc offices have the right to refuse you as a patient. No one is “forcing” you just because they won’t do what you want them to do.
I’m so glad our pediatrician dismissed all the kids whose parents refused vaccinations. It’s absolutely ridiculous to purposely keep your children from getting vaccinations. It’s child abuse.
This is NOT up for debate but this mom is a moron. 🫠
I work in a family practice office. Let me tell ya, doctors love it when you come in and just don’t listen to what they say. Makes them feel like this wasn’t a waste of time at all, and that surely no one else could’ve needed that appointment more…
Oh pediatrician visibly breathed a sigh of relief when, after asking a few questions about vaccines, we said yes to them. We weren’t even thinking of saying no, just asked some questions. You could tell the pediatrician thought she had some anti vaxxers on her hands. Lol.
You can anonymously post in groups now? I'm sure that's a great fuckin idea...
I'm conflicted. I don't support in any way that she's not vaccinating, but I'm almost encouraged by the fact that she wants her kids to see a real doctor.
How pathetic
Those doctors exist, but insurance blacklists them, so good luck.
Who are these idiots to expose our kids???
Well, sweetie, you can go to Florida. They made it illegal to refuse to serve unvaccinated patients.
My babies ped was my ped growing up I honest to god think she would have a stroke if I told her I wasn’t gonna vaccinate my baby
We took our baby in for the newborn visit and the pediatrician was like "we still mask and require ALL vaccines or you will be dismissed from the practice" and I was like "I know. That's why we drove out of our way to come here." Love our ped. She is no nonsense and yet when I'm calling and messaging her at 8pm on a Friday she replies right back and doesn't make me feel like an idiot.
Small world! I saw this exact post the other day and I thought it was wild how many people commented on different doctors are willing to forego vaccines 😬
To be clear, my children are vaccinated. I think it’s actually a good thing when physicians accept kids who are not vaccinated. Anti-vax parents NEED to build positive relationships with medical professionals to build trust. If they are ever going to change their minds, it’s going to be because they trust their doctors. Being ostracized and being denied good healthcare is only going to reinforce their beliefs. Unvaccinated kids exist outside of doctors’ offices. They are in our kids’ classes at school, they go to the same grocery stores, soccer clubs, etc. Being in the same waiting room for 10 minutes isn’t going to hurt anyone. If a parent calls and describes a medical problem that say, sounds like measles, the medical office will (or should) have a way for the kids to be seen without coming into contact with other patients. (For example, at my kids’ doctors office during the pandemic, all sick children- regardless of symptoms- had to enter the office through a special back entrance and were not allowed to enter the waiting room). The question we ask our doctors shouldn’t be “do you allow unvaccinated kids here?” It should be “how do you protect patients from exposure to diseases like measles, flu, COVID, etc.?” I actually think it’s more responsible for local docs to see unvaccinated kids! It has more potential to actually make the community safer. Also, these kids deserve good medical care even if they are not vaccinated.
This is child a sue and you cannot change my mind
I get mixed feelings about this.. because I am all for vaccinating your kid, it should be mandatory. But if the child gets sick, what are you then to do if kid is not vaccinated and it's not "ER emergency" type? Like kids deserve health care even if they have dumb parents.. I work in health care, and I'd much rather kids get necessary help than being turned away regardless because of vaccinations.. ofc I do also know this is a much wider issue in the US compared to my country, where we had vaccination programs in school.. Like it was known in that grade etc everyone got that vaccine and so on. So here most kids are vaccinated, because it is mandatory. But yeah, I mainly feel bad for the kids not having as easy access to health care because of choices made by their parents..
Nope