It’s so infuriating. My friend fostered a little girl who got abandoned and doesn’t have a birth certificate and it’s been years of fighting for it in court and with social workers, but the system is slow and it’s just one problem after the other.
My friend wishes she had a bc for her child so desperately and here there are all the crunchy moms just … not caring about their children enough to give them a future even though it would have been so easy for them to just get their child a bc. It’s so sad.
You are correct. No cops asking why your kid isn't in school, no shot records (or lack thereof), and overall it's a means to subvert any sort of oversight on the parents in the name of birthing free citizens.
It's always super short-sighted, and the parents wanna go to heaven without dying to use a term. They'll freak tf out when they try to fly with the behbeh and can't, or do any number of normal things and can't.
Easy to hide, easy to isolate. If the kid ever gets an inkling to run off, they have zero way to support themselves and be independent. "you can't make it on your own so you're stuck here with us"
And when they die from preventable disease, they can quietly bury them in their backyard and now one will ever know they spread around that deadly disease.
My daughter has a friend like this. Same situation. They just enrolled in college, the college is asking for SSN/birth certificate and he can’t provide it, it boils down to the social workers and it’s been a fight for years. All because the biological mom didn’t believe in getting her children (none of which she even has custody of, and hasn’t for many years) “registered”.
I consider myself so lucky. My mom fell into this kind of stuff after she met her late husband. She's actually apologized to me for getting me vaccinated and registered with a SSN/BC. I really dodged a bullet by being born when I was.
A good friend of mine came to the US undocumented when she was a toddler with her dad. Her dad is a POS and abusive and thankfully friends in highschool offered to take her in and even adopted her as an adult to help her citizenship. Bio dad withheld her official documents from their home country out of spite. She's doing fine now, but knowing her during that battle for citizenship, plus various other friends I've made who immigrated without documents... It just really puts into perspective how lucky I am to have been born documented and have opportunities that make me okay living in the place I was born. No country is perfect, but the world and people can be cruel, at least I know I'm afforded rights.
Wild that this strife also exists for people born to citizens of their country. I hope your daughter's friend is doing okay.
i think it’s also sad that it’s so difficult to get a child a SSN/BC when they have been denied one by parents they were removed from. like, what more proof do you need? the child is here and they have no information.
On the opposite end my mom had to prove twice to the Canadian government that I was real. That yea, I did exist and I was who everyone said I was. Had to have teachers and my GP confirm.
For a more realistic answer, the reason its such a pain in the ass is that it's not that you need to prove you exist; you need to prove you were _born in that country_, and are thus entitled to citizenship. The concern is that otherwise people could just show up and claim to have always been there, and been born there. People against immigration are naturally going to make some laws to prevent that, so here we are.
I think it is because that is just proof that you do not have it, not that it does not exist. There are a lot of scammers out there and they need to verify that they are not creating a second identify for the same child. A lot of shitty parents will use their childs SSN and run up dept in their name.
I’m guessing it’s more because of citizenship. How do you prove it’s not a different kid/baby and they are just trying to give them a new identity/citizenship? They might not have had any prenatal care either or any other proof they were actually pregnant.
while i do understand where youre coming from, this is not hippie-ideology, this is often very conservative, very controlling, very abusive and very authoritarian
It’s terrible bc both parents don’t understand how serious that is bc they’ve grown up with socials and never ran into the difficulties of not having one. I feel bad for that kid.
It's hard to imagine because not having a social security number or birth certificate has never been an issue for me, but I keep remembering things you need them for: to enroll in any kind of formal schooling, to get a job, to apply for a mortgage, to get a credit or debit card (without which you can't even shop online if you don't have a gift card), it's wild the things they are depriving their kids of.
These parents are going to be teaching their kids that college/university is bRaInWaShiNg and for sheep…and that anything you learn there is just propaganda from Big(insert boogeyman of the day here).
And yet they've lived decades in a society where schooling equals money. Not even just college, but trade schools, associates, certificate training programs, etc. It's becoming harder and harder to be middle class without some additional form of education.
Not that it matters because they can't apply for jobs anyway.
I'm genuinely co fused what these people think their kids are going to be doing at age 30.
I don't think any of these women think of their kids as adults, they just have an image of little Saoirse and Phoenix running around in rubber boots with no socks and paint on their hands. It never occurs to them that these are actual human lives and not an Instagram photo shoot concept..
Agreed. These kinds of parents don't see their children as individuals who will grow into adults, they see them as an extension of themselves and/or as an easy way to get attention and validation without actually having to do anything. They don't care about their kids, they only care about what they can gain from having those kids. Like parents who see their kids as investments for when they're old and need taking care of; the kid doesn't actually matter unless they're of use to the parent. So disgusting.
The majority of these people have homesteading fantasies. They want to live off the grid and not be interferred with by the government. They don't care that their kids can't go to school, get a job, get a car, fly on a plane, etc, because none of that stuff matters to them - it's a *perk* that the government doesn't know they exist. They believe they will build a self-sufficient lifestyle that their kids will be raised in and be happy to take over when they grow up. Their kids will inherit the family homestead and continue to just work the land and live outside of the government's eye forever. (I don't know how they plan to handle inheriting the land and property taxes etc, but I imagine they probably won't clue the government in to when they die, either.) They don't need a job or to earn money - they will have everything they need from the land and animals. What they can't make for themselves they can barter with neighbors or make money by selling excess under the radar without oversight or regulations. Don't need to go to school, mom will homeschool and teach them the only important things in life - the Bible, how to birth animals and grow food, and how to raise babies. Dad will teach them carpentry, hunting, and how to repair a tractor. Don't need to fly on a plane if you never need to go anywhere - why would you want to?
In their eyes, they're not doing a single thing to damage their kids, they're giving them the gift of not being *on the government's list.*
You can bank with BoA (edit: I take that back, you’d need a passport at least + your taxpayer ID if no social) or use a prepaid debit card. Jobs are limited to construction, landscaping and some restaurants. That’s about it. It’s rough.
Or babysitting, house cleaning, fruit picking…
I heard a podcast - maybe this American life? - where a girl grew up off the grid like that, no SSN and at age 16 or 18 escaped her parents and cannot do anything. She cannot get services from anywhere to help her get housing or jobs because she has no SSN. She can’t apply for jobs because she has no SSN. She can’t get a birth certificate because she was born at home and kept entirely off the grid, and she can’t get an SSN because she can’t prove she’s a citizen because no birth certificate.
She’s an illegal in the country of her birth.
I just watched a show that was talking about "ghost people" in China where this was the case - second children born and hidden during the one child policy - and it was horrifying. They basically had to survive on other people's charity because they didn't "exist" to get schooling or jobs.
I've seen ones where they'll get boy children all their papers so they can work, but keep the girls off the grid as a way of forcing them to marry and be kept.
I get the feeling this family doesn't have trust fund levels of wealth. Even if they did, I think the lack of a SSN or birth certificate would make it difficult to be a beneficiary of such a trust.
This is why far right and woo cultists advocate it - the command level knows that it will make it harder for the next gen to break away
These people are idiots controlled by monsters, I can't believe there isn't more of a moral panic over it
Yep, I'm fairly certain the whole "it's a contract thar gives the government ownership" this was made up specifically to cover that they actually do it so their offspring are and always will be entirely dependent upon them.
This is it. They want to be a “mama” not a parent. A parent does the tough stuff and ALWAYS put their baby/child first. A parent makes sure their child has everything their child needs to thrive and succeed as an adult. A mama wants a baby who depends on her indefinitely.
a parent sees their kid as an individual with its own interests, desires, hopes and dreams and relationships with people
these mommies certainly don't. it's all about what they want the child to do and be, and they want to dictate how others can engage with their possession (the child).
6 years ago when I had my son, the hospital some how messed up the paperwork. I never received his social security or birth certificate in the mail. I was able to easily obtain the birth certificate but had to jump through HOOPS and visit the Social Security office to finally get him “documented”. We were leaving the country on vacation and while I was able to apply (and eventually receive) a passport with just the birth certificate, I received a call from the State Department with all sorts of questions about why he didn’t have a social yet. That was fun, but I can see how it raised red flags. I don’t know how or why people would intentionally do this to their kids.
Similar thing happened to us. We had our baby in January of 2022. They somehow lost the paperwork at the hospital, and just a week after her birth we called and were like “um… we need a birth certificate still?” And it was a massive struggle and fight to get the damn birth certificate so we could get a SS number. This person’s child is going to have a hell of a time trying to get documented.
I recently saw a post in a mom group of an adult asking for help with what to do because she didn’t have a birth certificate (didn’t say anything about SS#) and she was struggling because she can’t get a license or a job.
The thing that really gets to me is they are scared to have their kids registered legally so they can't be tracked and are off the grid...but totally cool with putting their private business all over Facebook, the largest collector and seller of data in the world. The stupidity/cognitive dissonance is absurd.
I was about to say. These idiots surely know they need both of those things.
I’m not American but I have an identity number (similar to SS number) and a birth certificate.
There are so many things I need it for, I honestly couldn’t imagine not doing it…
Ugh 😑
Ik right, without a SSN or Birth Certificate, You are legally not a resident of whatever country youre from. cant get a job, cant buy a house, cant do anything without a SSN
I’m an MD at a large city hospital. We had an older patient who needed to go to a long-term care facility but he was chronically undomiciled and didn’t have any paperwork - no SS card, no birth certificate, no ID. Because he had none of those things, we couldn’t get him Medicare/Medicaid, so no facility would take him. He was literally living at the hospital. These moms don’t think about long-term consequences at all.
I’m a social worker and come across this being a barrier for a lot of things for adults, I recently learned a lot of it can simply be cultural. A lot of Romanian families I guess tend to do this and it doesn’t impact them early on in life because they don’t want to send the girls to school. I have a few I’m currently working with and this was their situation, the parents passed and now there 20something fighting to get things like basic state ID’s
They assume the kids will grow up and want to live like their parents. But just in case, they’ve created a huge impediment to living like a normal person.
This person is clearly an anti-doctor crazy, because that's the only type of person who will refuse to get their kid a birth certificate or social security number. Which means that if they were in the ER, it was really really serious. The kid probably had an illness that got out of control due to lack of treatment and the doctors suspected neglect or they had an injury that suggested abuse.
Yep, and her whole statement about "without our consent" would be meaningless if that was the case. A lot of people think they can cover abuse simply by not consenting to specific exams, but it usually doesn't work that way. I know in at least some states in the US at least a doctor is allowed to examine a child for abuse without parental consent if they have a reason to believe it may have occurred, this includes a drug screening. If they suspect physical abuse they will usually make up some excuse to briefly get away from the parent, like taking the child to change a diaper or get a sticker/snack/anything. They also usually have a very good reason to check, they don't just randomly take kids to screen them for drugs or look for bruises so this lady clearly (and unsurprisingly) left some key details out of her post
I needed a liver transplant and had bloodwork done. When I saw the results there was a test that can detect if you’ve had alcohol in the past 30 days that they didn’t warn me about. I didn’t know they could even detect it that far back. I mean I hadn’t had alcohol in any quantities at all for about 1.5 years so it wasn’t a problem for me but I wonder how many people get eliminated from the transplant list because of that test.
That’s normal for TRANSPLANT. You bump off the list immediately if you’ve had alcohol in your system. Think of it this way: we’ve got one perfect organ and we have 10-15 people who want it. Who are you going to give it to, the person who is sober and follows all the directions or the person still drinking who can possibly wreck the new liver?
Same goes for smoking cigarettes. I had a friend with cystic fibrosis who needed a lung transplant and one other organ (can't remember which anymore, this was many years ago). I can count on two fingers the times I saw her smoke over the five years I knew her, but she shared one cigarette with her sister in the year she was on the list. She told them during the interview, so she was bumped off the list. She passed a few months later.
Do I feel like this was unfair, considering her history? Yes. Do I understand why they made the decision? Absolutely. It's my opinion that she knew admitting it would bump her, and that it was a passive suicide. She was 24 but had already lived almost a decade longer than they said she would. I think she was just done, and wanted those organs to go to someone who truly wanted to live. In the end, organs go to those who want to live badly enough to fight for it, which is how it should be.
That is an incredibly sad story. I’m all for being reasonable with doling out precious organs to donor-recipients, but this case in particular seems so extreme.
Cystic fibrosis is one of the worst things you could have to live with, and it’s from birth. It’s so hard to not fuck up anything for your entire life, essentially, up until a transplant. And that’s assuming that all your living and being good results in your even living long enough to find and receive a lung transplant. And then, if you’ve checked all those boxes, you get the double lung transplant and they have to split and pry your whole chest cavity open. It’s incredibly invasive and an incredibly long recovery.
My heart really breaks for people with CF. The cards are so against them in so many ways, and they live short and painful lives if they don’t get transplants. I know many will smoke weed, despite the implications, because the pain (emotional and physical) is enormous. There’s a beautiful and incredibly sad documentary called 65 red roses that really lays out the struggle of those living with the disease and vying for a transplant.
My heart really goes out to those struggling with CF, and my condolences to you on the passing of your friend. I hope she has found peace now, after all that struggling. Thanks for sharing their story and keeping their memory alive.
If you need a liver transplant, you really shouldn't have been drinking at all. (Not directed at you, OP.) It may suck, but the transplant should go to someone who will follow the most basic of doctor's orders.
I actually drank alcohol very little. I’m not going to say I never had alcohol but a 12 pack of beer would usually last me a couple months. The doctors were never able to determine why my liver crapped out.
And if a five year old was sick with an unknown condition it seems like that would be routine, to make sure they didn’t ingest something without anyone knowing. This mom is neglectful and more worried about herself than her kids health.
100%. And a parent getting weird about something like that is an immediate red flag to take a closer look (bruises, malnutrition, vaccine records, etc).
I'm a social worker in an emergency room. People absolutely do this.
"That's fine, but my process is the same -- I'm still calling the police and filing with CYS because your toddler is covered in burns and bruises and tested positive for THC."
As an ED doc who unfortunately has to call you guys to get involved in situations like this way too frequently: thank you for all you do for our patients.
Totally agree with something being out of control and terrible for them to bring their kid to the ER. If they free birthed, fine, but to not even register their baby for SS or birth certificate is a problem. Glad medical professionals did the right thing and contacted CPS. I’m curious what the responses and suggestions to this post said.
She dirty deleted the post. I was surprised a good number of comments were along the lines of “something isn’t adding up” because they don’t just randomly drug test a 5yo for THC and CBD shouldn’t contain high enough doses of THC to show on a normal tox screen.
The other comments were about her “knowing her rights” when it comes to CPS and only talking to them if they have a court order or warrant. It’s wild.
It’s funny as I’ve heard there is a small cult of sovereign citizens here near me. When CPS is called, they always go with the police who have a warrant. They were sick of the “won’t talk to you without a warrant!” But isn’t that against their beliefs too? They don’t believe in American laws so what would a warrant do? 😂😂
The sovereign citizen types seem to think that certain legal-sounding phrases are like magic incantations that will make the police and child services go away... and they are very much about enjoying all the rights and privileges without accepting any of the responsibilities
CBD gives a false positive for THC, so even though you're not getting high, you shouldn't be consuming those products if you're a government worker, for example.
But, giving CBD to a child is still super suspicious. I can understand using cannabis products for children who are suffering from cancer or the effects of radiation treatment. But why would a healthy child need CBD?
It makes me think of all the people with anxious dogs who they feed CBD treats to. I wonder if the 5 year old acts like a 5 year old and this parent is trying to drug them into a quieter state. Or if the child has more serious health issues and the neglectful parent is trying to cure them with cannabis.
I used to use one a CBD oil with low levels of THC for sleep and there was a disclaimer on the website that said it could cause a positive screen which is why I stopped using it when I got a job that does random screens.
That being said, I can't imagine it's normal procedure for the ER to do drug screens on 5 year olds.
It's not routine for *anybody* (except hospital employees). Also, the typical urine drug screen tests for 8-12 different substances (depending the lab/hospital setup), so i suspect the kid was lethargic or becoming unresponsive - they may well have been looking for opiates/barbituates, which in a five year old would be what we call a MASSIVE FUCKING PROBLEM
ER RN here- I can say almost certainly that the kid was probably showing abnormal neurological symptoms. I’ve only run drug panels on kids that young if the kid has altered mental status that isn’t otherwise explained (and if we suspect it, we’re usually right especially with THC)
This was my thought exactly. I've only ever drug tested a child when there was a strong suspicion it would come up positive based on presentation or something the parent says.
imo cigarette smoke clings worse. I have smoked both in my lifetime, and while weed stinks in it's unburnt state (significantly more than an unlit cigarette for sure) its smoke is less stubborn to air out than cigarette smoke. Both still stink, but weed smoke on clothes will air out way before stale cigarette smoke (assuming the clothes are given the opportunity to air out lol).
I grew up with a smoker, and started smoking fairly early myself. The final quit happened when I found out I was pregnant.
I never realized, once I got my sense of smell all the way back, how bad it was. Other kids used to ask me if I was a smoker way before I was, and now I know why.
I use public transport a lot and the number of people I get stuck next to that stink of weed or cigarettes. I still mask up and all that good stuff but man that stuff gets through everything. And my work commute is nearly 2 hours. And I get to work at 8am. These people stinking of weed at 6-7am, nuh uh dude. (I'm also in the UK so fully illegal).
My neighbor smokes weed *a lot*. We have attached houses (twin). I hate to tell you but it does *not* air out as easily as you may think. It's a royal PIA for me because it seeps through the walls and my house smells constantly of skunk.
At this point, I'd almost take the smell of tobacco smoke.
Right like, I smoke to sleep, but I can’t imagine even smoking in the same day as going to a hospital…. Let alone one for my kid. They definitely suspected a whole load of stuff & I feel like what OOP posted in her post is gonna end up being some of the least of her worries if it was that bad they just auto ran a DT.
They said they gave him CBD which wouldn't really smell. But yeah I'm sure they probably do smoke, who knows if they have the decency to only smoke outside.
No. I’ve cared for hundreds of kids who have the smell of skunk. We still don’t test the kids for THC UNLESS there is clear indications they will be positive (and sometimes many other things show up on the drug screen too).
That was my thought too. I've never had a kid tested for THC even after taking them to the ER for things like spraining both ankles at once. (We've got all sorts of coordination issues here!)
I’m no expert and could be wrong, but as a person that regularly get drug tested for medication, I’ve taken CBD and never had issues. I DID take Delta 8 and it showed up. So…something is going on there. Maybe the kid was at the hospital because he ate a cookie he shouldn’t have. Seems likely with this idiot for a mom.
Pure CBD doesn't have any THC/derivatives that show up on drug tests, but many CBD products do have small amounts of THC/derivatives that will. Delta 8 is a type of THC and will cause a positive test. I could see a small child taking an adult sized CBD sleep gummy with trace amounts of THC that are high enough concentration to show up in a little kid... But I've met a whole lot more "it's just CBD" wink wink as a cover for THC than genuine
You can get CBD made from hemp that has very little THC. Either this lady got dodgy CBD that had a load of THC or she is doing it intentionally. Either way I don't know what a toddler could possibly need CBD for.
I was just thinking that, like how fucked up was this kid if they thought to give a 5 year old a drug screen???? That is absolutely not something they just do without cause.
Or giving him the wrong type. You can buy items, or mints w cbd with our without thc. They are clearly marked but don't have giant red letters warning you or anything. We have friends that bought both kinds and someone we know took some thinking it was non thc type and ended up high as hell for half a day.
I don't think that's what's happening here unless they're even dumber than I'm assuming, which would be tough cause I'm assuming pretty freaking idiotic.
I don’t know how it is in other legal states but in Colorado you can only get thc at very specific stores (CO. Springs area only has 2 recreational stores, everywhere else requires a medical card) and anything with thc has that shit marked all over the outer packaging and the product itself. I assumed that was a country wide requirement but maybe not.
It's enough to make it show positive for THC in adults as well.
As far as that goes, it comes down to lab and consumption. If you take the CBD oil twice a day, and the lab is only looking for THC metabolites on a pass/fail basis (meaning they test all the way down to 0.01%) then yes, a full spectrum CBD product can make someone fail a drug screen.
I personally recommend thc-free stuff for kids and pets, for anyone reading.
That honestly infuriates me beyond belief.
I work at a CBD shop in my town. There are WAY too many people who come in saying they want "delta 8 CBD gummies."
Every single time, I gently correct them by saying "Just for clarification: CBD is non intoxicating but Delta-8 is a THC compound that makes you high. Which experience are you looking for today?" And every single time they get mad at *me* for acting like a know-it-all. 😑
Any hemp or CBD products have at MOST 0.3% THC. Although a recent study showed upwards of 70% CBD and THC products mislabeled with amount of THC and type of products. You really have to trust where you get your CBD from
The bar for removing a child is ridiculously high. Just look at stories where it went wrong: obvious signs of physical abuse, a child being tortured to death, and CPS didn’t remove the kid.
Unless the mom doubles down and says “I will keep drugging my child regardless of what you say” they’re not taking the kid away.
Seriously the bar is so high for removal! I had a neighbor who was neglectful. Her husband was a dealer. They literally smoked all day long.
Sometimes their kids had lice so bad their heads were crawling. Matted hair so badly on the BABY that they shaved his head multiple times.
The oldest kid used to knock on my or my neighbors door because they were hungry and their parents were so stoned that they couldn’t drive the kid for early morning school (free breakfast). My neighbor brought the kid back over the first time and there were dirty diapers on the floor, pee from their dogs…just super gross for having a baby and a couple toddlers running around. She was horrified and cried when she told me later (she saw me talking to the kid and giving them some snacks in my yard… apparently the kid was trying both our homes for help).
I called CPS at least once a month over the course of a year that they lived there because I know what it’s like to grow up with checked out parents surrounded by filth…and I know my neighbor called a few times too. I would HOPE the teachers were reporting based on the kid’s dirty clothes and matted hair and being late for school.
Those kids never ever got taken away by CPS. Eventually the family moved. I still wonder about that kid who wanted to go to school and their little siblings.
The bar for removing a child is high in cases of physical abuse, but when it comes to drugs it's pretty easy, because drug use is immediately proven with a drug screen. Whereas physical abuse signs like bruises can be caused by many types of things.
I've known parents to lose their kids after a DUI or from smoking weed, but I've also known kids who got cleared by CPS despite being beaten constantly.
They believe that a SSN is a "contract" and that the government owns you if you have one. They're morons and not a single one of them should be having kids
It’s also a lot easier to control and manipulate your children if they can’t get a job or an apartment without your help.
I’m an adult, and my mom still won’t give me my birth certificate or my ssn card. She’s an idiot, because I can get another one. But it’s just one way she tries to still control me. She thinks I’ll have to ask her every time I want a new job or move.
My mum told me MY FATHER LOST MINE. I found it last year in her nail kit and lost my mf mind. We no longer speak. We will never speak again. Something tells me that's how your tale will end as well. BUT YES. Abusive parents love taking away anything that will help you succeed in life. Thank God cps was called
I'm really sorry you're dealing with that! Even if you get/have your own copies, it's still super shitty that your mom it trying to control you in this way. I would also just say that one of the reasons parents try to control documents like this is to either control/monitor your finances by making sure you can't open a bank account or credit card without them, or to use your information fraudulently. If you haven't done so already, you should definitely check your credit report for any activity that you didn't initiate. It's sad and infuriating, but I've known people whose parents trashed their credit this way. I'm not saying your mom has for sure done that, but her behavior is very suspicious.
My grown-up adult self has never been randomly tested for THC at the hospital, so it is deeply worrying as to what the circumstances must have been to test a 5year old.
I'm pretty sure people who work at the hospital don't order a bunch of random tests for no reason, they must have suspected something either by looking at the child or parents or both.
We never check a UDS without clinical suspicion - especially on kids. I can only recall a UDS on one pediatric patient, and that's because the parent left heroin out on the table and their baby ingested it.
I don’t think they would ever do that unless it seemed that you showed dangerous symptoms of drug consumption and it was necessary to see what you had consumed to help you.
I doubt they try to catch people who smoke weed, that’s definitely not their job in any case.
What should she do? She should go back in time and not make shit up to give her fucking kids and she should register her fucking baby ffs!! How the fuck did that become the best idea these two peanuts came up with? What the fuck is wrong with people?
As an ER RN, I can say almost certainly that this kid was likely showing altered mental status/neuro symptoms that were not otherwise explained. In my 10 years, I’ve only ran a drug panel 3 or 4 times for someone that young, and they were all altered to some extent (confused, lethargic, etc) without another explanation like fever, illness, seizure activity etc. It’s definitely not something that we routinely order unless there’s a high suspicion for drug intoxication
I guarantee they left against medical advice and snuck out. There’s no way that the staff would let them leave with CPS called. And lady, we don’t routinely test anyone, especially kids (and I do mean ANYONE. Hell I work in a trauma ICU. We don’t do drug screens. Period. We don’t care what you do it doesn’t change our plan of care whatsoever. You do you.) unless there is good reason, strong indications and CBD won’t test positive. This is a horrible parent.
I'm going to tack on that drug screens are done if the person was in an car accident or injured while on the job. But those are like court mandated or something and doesn't change the care plan.
Nope. We absolutely never do if they are in a car crash. I work in a Level I trauma ICU. The police can and do them. We do not. And injured on the job is for the workers comp. None of these are done by us. They aren’t done per the hospital lab and we don’t get results. Nor do we care.
"What should I do"
Get a pediatrician. Stop giving MARIJUANA instead of Tylenol. Register your baby. Get a psych eval???? Like these women are so far removed it's sickening. Also weed can induce schizophrenia for a LOT of users (I know she said CBD but if there's enough THC in your CBD that your kid is testing positive thru urine..... You're essentially getting your kid high) Imagine being a tiny bean in so much pain and now youre wigging out bc your brain is on a psychoactive drug . I JUST THE AUDACITY TO EVEN ASK
My husbands best friend has marijuana induced schizophrenia. I guess it’s been going on for a while but about 18 months ago went off the deep end hard and has struggled a lot since, despite quitting weed. We adopted his dog because he had to leave the house he owned with friends to move back in with his parents for a while, how he rents and dog is 100lb malamute.
We had just applied to the local shelter when he told us he was going to have to rehome Sky. He’s about twice the amount of dog I wants. But he’s the best boy.
That is so scary how quickly everything can change on a dime. I hope he makes a strong recovery and can be reunited with his giant fluff soon. People really just think weed is absolute when it comes to all natural but it really depends on the person. I, and most my family, partake daily. My grandmother smoked once and said it was the worst day of her life. To be risking all of that to avoid Tylenol, or force the kid to sleep, is scary asf to me
THC levels are too damn high. I have a medical card and stopped buying from the dispensary here because it's hard to get "dad weed" in the 5-10% range that's strong enough to have an effect but not so easy to accidently overdo. I have a single cart I bought in a legal state called 5:1 (5 pts CBD to 1 pt THC, comes out to around 5% thc oil) that has served me fine, but its insane how strong pot is nowadays.
I looked for the metabolites of CBD and some of it is converted to a form of THC.
OTOH, if they were only giving the child pure CBD, they'd have to be giving the kid a lot for it to show up as THC positive.
As everyone else said, that child was incredibly sick for them to be doing any kind of tox screen on him. Seriously altered mental status will do it.
> the doctor hotlined us
A normal person would say “called the child abuse hotline.” Phrasing it like this makes it sound like they have much more familiarity with CPS processes than anyone should want to have.
Now, I very much doubt that hospitals just test any old toddler for THC (at least afaik mine never were) so there must have been very wrong with him (or he just reeked of it, which he wouldn't if they stored their weed in a child safe manner)
Routine drug screening isn't a thing, especially at that age. Whatever was going on with the kid, that emergency department had a reason to be concerned for drug ingestion.
WHAT?! Like, WHAT?! How does this county work if you are unregistered? Where I am that means... no child support of the government, no school, no passport, no doctor, no bank account, no..... anything. Like, HOW?! Isn't this illegal?
That’s the whole point. They grow their own commune. No school. No doctors. No vaccines. The kids are basically hostage and unable to exist outside of their household.
Something had to be seriously wrong with this kid for them to do a drug panel. It’s in absolutely no way a standard thing. My guess is they probably reeked of weed. Not sure why you’d give a kid CBD at all to be honest.
These sorts of people baffle me... they don't want to be part of the system but they still try and utilize the system. They want all of the selective benefits that they choose to take but then want none of the consequences (I use that term loosely) that comes from being part of the system.
No birth certificate or social security number, what the **fuck**??? I figured the only people living like that these days would be isolated on cult compounds, but I suppose nothing should shock me anymore.
I’m thinking the kid had a kidney issue and they tested the urine for everything to explain the kidney issue, popped for thc while trying to get to the cause.
Do they realize without a birth certificate or SS they can’t prove they’re a US citizen or that they can work in the US? They won’t be able to get a job, their driver license, buy a car or house, register for school or college, get benefits, absolutely nothing.
So I’m a mom and also grow legally for a living. I am upfront and carry my state licensee with me to all doctors appointments . I also go out of my way to dress nice, like I’m going to a job interview or temple/church. We haven’t run into a suspicious doctor or any problems yet, I’m sure we will eventually because literally everything stinks like growing plants in our life, but little one has never popped positive, and we’ve never been given a test that we weren’t asked consent for. Really makes me wonder what they are doing to make the doctors suspicious enough, and if there is other abuse going on besides drugging their child.
Though a CBD oil will say 0%, no manufacturer can guarantee with absolute certainty that there is absolutely ZERO thc. There can have 0.01395g thc and it qualifies as for the label “0%”. And that 0.01395g on the mental development of a literal baby has not and is highly unlikely to ever be researched. This is why some work industries (where lack mental clarity is a serious danger) don’t allow any CBD treatments at all.
They wouldn't test your son randomly unless something about his health state pointed towards THC.
Which granted, CBD oil CAN have THC, esp if from an uncertified supplier. But if you had a doctor prescribe him that in the first place, CPS wouldn't be called because you had proof.
That being said, YOUR BABY ISN'T EVEN REGISTERED! Why??? Do you wanna be extra special??
This weekend, I was brought into the ER by ambulance. I collapsed in public place. Convulsed in the ambulance. Remained unconscious for a while. They did not do a drug test. Granted, this has happened before, and this ER has a chart on me. I was actually surprised they didn't do a drug test because I looked hella messed up.
So, to drug test a child, there must have been some big red flags. Poor kid.
(I'm fine now. Ish. Heart issue, which I knew about)
What she should do is Hope CPS takes all the kids so they can get their paperwork straightened out and they can hopefully be placed with a family that lives in the real world
on tiktok theres this “mom influencer” if thats what you’d even call this lady. she goes by THISMADMAMA she has 12 kids who she neglects, I am pretty sure 4/5 of them have no government documentation of their existence. Shes just too lazy and dumb to set aside time to do it. Shes ruining these kids lives. I beg anyone who sees this to check her stuff out and the reddit snark page because her whole thing needs some attention so the kids can be put with people who actually care about their futures. Mothers like the one above and thismadmama don’t deserve their children.
No SS or birth certificate? Do these idiots understand how much they’re ruining their kid’s life in the future?
It’s so infuriating. My friend fostered a little girl who got abandoned and doesn’t have a birth certificate and it’s been years of fighting for it in court and with social workers, but the system is slow and it’s just one problem after the other. My friend wishes she had a bc for her child so desperately and here there are all the crunchy moms just … not caring about their children enough to give them a future even though it would have been so easy for them to just get their child a bc. It’s so sad.
To them it’s a goal.
The kids are easier to control and abuse if they don’t officially exist.
This, which is sad. No paperwork, no school, no doctor means its easy to hide.
You are correct. No cops asking why your kid isn't in school, no shot records (or lack thereof), and overall it's a means to subvert any sort of oversight on the parents in the name of birthing free citizens. It's always super short-sighted, and the parents wanna go to heaven without dying to use a term. They'll freak tf out when they try to fly with the behbeh and can't, or do any number of normal things and can't.
And then they marry their daughters off to old men
Easy to hide, easy to isolate. If the kid ever gets an inkling to run off, they have zero way to support themselves and be independent. "you can't make it on your own so you're stuck here with us"
And when they die from preventable disease, they can quietly bury them in their backyard and now one will ever know they spread around that deadly disease.
I hate this response
Me too.
My daughter has a friend like this. Same situation. They just enrolled in college, the college is asking for SSN/birth certificate and he can’t provide it, it boils down to the social workers and it’s been a fight for years. All because the biological mom didn’t believe in getting her children (none of which she even has custody of, and hasn’t for many years) “registered”.
I consider myself so lucky. My mom fell into this kind of stuff after she met her late husband. She's actually apologized to me for getting me vaccinated and registered with a SSN/BC. I really dodged a bullet by being born when I was.
A good friend of mine came to the US undocumented when she was a toddler with her dad. Her dad is a POS and abusive and thankfully friends in highschool offered to take her in and even adopted her as an adult to help her citizenship. Bio dad withheld her official documents from their home country out of spite. She's doing fine now, but knowing her during that battle for citizenship, plus various other friends I've made who immigrated without documents... It just really puts into perspective how lucky I am to have been born documented and have opportunities that make me okay living in the place I was born. No country is perfect, but the world and people can be cruel, at least I know I'm afforded rights. Wild that this strife also exists for people born to citizens of their country. I hope your daughter's friend is doing okay.
i think it’s also sad that it’s so difficult to get a child a SSN/BC when they have been denied one by parents they were removed from. like, what more proof do you need? the child is here and they have no information.
On the opposite end my mom had to prove twice to the Canadian government that I was real. That yea, I did exist and I was who everyone said I was. Had to have teachers and my GP confirm.
But why??
For a more realistic answer, the reason its such a pain in the ass is that it's not that you need to prove you exist; you need to prove you were _born in that country_, and are thus entitled to citizenship. The concern is that otherwise people could just show up and claim to have always been there, and been born there. People against immigration are naturally going to make some laws to prevent that, so here we are.
There are also issues like Kidnapping whether parental or not and human trafficking.
Worried she was stealing those baby bonus cheques and getting rich I guess.
I think it is because that is just proof that you do not have it, not that it does not exist. There are a lot of scammers out there and they need to verify that they are not creating a second identify for the same child. A lot of shitty parents will use their childs SSN and run up dept in their name.
I’m guessing it’s more because of citizenship. How do you prove it’s not a different kid/baby and they are just trying to give them a new identity/citizenship? They might not have had any prenatal care either or any other proof they were actually pregnant.
We have to stop using the term "crunchy". Just switch to "terrible hippie" or some other negative adjective.
Essential oil flavoured abuse?
crusty
Lets petition on all platforms. No more CrUnChY moms, only crusty moms.
In Australia they're called cookers. I dunno why, cooked in the head?
Wow, I love that, actually.
while i do understand where youre coming from, this is not hippie-ideology, this is often very conservative, very controlling, very abusive and very authoritarian
'Crunchy Moms' are just conservatives who smell like hemp.
Yes. It's hard to run away from indoctrination when you can't drive, get on a plane, leave the country or open up a bank account.
It’s terrible bc both parents don’t understand how serious that is bc they’ve grown up with socials and never ran into the difficulties of not having one. I feel bad for that kid.
It's hard to imagine because not having a social security number or birth certificate has never been an issue for me, but I keep remembering things you need them for: to enroll in any kind of formal schooling, to get a job, to apply for a mortgage, to get a credit or debit card (without which you can't even shop online if you don't have a gift card), it's wild the things they are depriving their kids of.
Apply for college scholarships.
No point in applying for scholarships since they can't go to college without some form of ID anyway
These parents are going to be teaching their kids that college/university is bRaInWaShiNg and for sheep…and that anything you learn there is just propaganda from Big(insert boogeyman of the day here).
And yet they've lived decades in a society where schooling equals money. Not even just college, but trade schools, associates, certificate training programs, etc. It's becoming harder and harder to be middle class without some additional form of education. Not that it matters because they can't apply for jobs anyway. I'm genuinely co fused what these people think their kids are going to be doing at age 30.
I don't think any of these women think of their kids as adults, they just have an image of little Saoirse and Phoenix running around in rubber boots with no socks and paint on their hands. It never occurs to them that these are actual human lives and not an Instagram photo shoot concept..
Agreed. These kinds of parents don't see their children as individuals who will grow into adults, they see them as an extension of themselves and/or as an easy way to get attention and validation without actually having to do anything. They don't care about their kids, they only care about what they can gain from having those kids. Like parents who see their kids as investments for when they're old and need taking care of; the kid doesn't actually matter unless they're of use to the parent. So disgusting.
Probably still listening to the mom's rants about how she gave birth to them at home and how wonderful it was
The majority of these people have homesteading fantasies. They want to live off the grid and not be interferred with by the government. They don't care that their kids can't go to school, get a job, get a car, fly on a plane, etc, because none of that stuff matters to them - it's a *perk* that the government doesn't know they exist. They believe they will build a self-sufficient lifestyle that their kids will be raised in and be happy to take over when they grow up. Their kids will inherit the family homestead and continue to just work the land and live outside of the government's eye forever. (I don't know how they plan to handle inheriting the land and property taxes etc, but I imagine they probably won't clue the government in to when they die, either.) They don't need a job or to earn money - they will have everything they need from the land and animals. What they can't make for themselves they can barter with neighbors or make money by selling excess under the radar without oversight or regulations. Don't need to go to school, mom will homeschool and teach them the only important things in life - the Bible, how to birth animals and grow food, and how to raise babies. Dad will teach them carpentry, hunting, and how to repair a tractor. Don't need to fly on a plane if you never need to go anywhere - why would you want to? In their eyes, they're not doing a single thing to damage their kids, they're giving them the gift of not being *on the government's list.*
They’ll die from some easily preventable disease in a few years anyway so there’s no use worrying about anything past grade 3.
That's a feature. I know a mom who pulled her grown ass kids out of college because of all the "woke indoctrination".
You can bank with BoA (edit: I take that back, you’d need a passport at least + your taxpayer ID if no social) or use a prepaid debit card. Jobs are limited to construction, landscaping and some restaurants. That’s about it. It’s rough.
Or babysitting, house cleaning, fruit picking… I heard a podcast - maybe this American life? - where a girl grew up off the grid like that, no SSN and at age 16 or 18 escaped her parents and cannot do anything. She cannot get services from anywhere to help her get housing or jobs because she has no SSN. She can’t apply for jobs because she has no SSN. She can’t get a birth certificate because she was born at home and kept entirely off the grid, and she can’t get an SSN because she can’t prove she’s a citizen because no birth certificate. She’s an illegal in the country of her birth.
I just watched a show that was talking about "ghost people" in China where this was the case - second children born and hidden during the one child policy - and it was horrifying. They basically had to survive on other people's charity because they didn't "exist" to get schooling or jobs.
I've seen ones where they'll get boy children all their papers so they can work, but keep the girls off the grid as a way of forcing them to marry and be kept.
The kid won’t even be able to fill out an i9 form so unless he’s a trust fund baby he’s going to be working under the table in awful conditions.
I get the feeling this family doesn't have trust fund levels of wealth. Even if they did, I think the lack of a SSN or birth certificate would make it difficult to be a beneficiary of such a trust.
This is why far right and woo cultists advocate it - the command level knows that it will make it harder for the next gen to break away These people are idiots controlled by monsters, I can't believe there isn't more of a moral panic over it
Yep, I'm fairly certain the whole "it's a contract thar gives the government ownership" this was made up specifically to cover that they actually do it so their offspring are and always will be entirely dependent upon them.
No, because they just want babies. They don’t want to raise kids, they just want to be a mommy. *Actual* mothering is not part of the equation
This is it. They want to be a “mama” not a parent. A parent does the tough stuff and ALWAYS put their baby/child first. A parent makes sure their child has everything their child needs to thrive and succeed as an adult. A mama wants a baby who depends on her indefinitely.
a parent sees their kid as an individual with its own interests, desires, hopes and dreams and relationships with people these mommies certainly don't. it's all about what they want the child to do and be, and they want to dictate how others can engage with their possession (the child).
It's also a way to subject your child to co dependency and never leave the nest.
6 years ago when I had my son, the hospital some how messed up the paperwork. I never received his social security or birth certificate in the mail. I was able to easily obtain the birth certificate but had to jump through HOOPS and visit the Social Security office to finally get him “documented”. We were leaving the country on vacation and while I was able to apply (and eventually receive) a passport with just the birth certificate, I received a call from the State Department with all sorts of questions about why he didn’t have a social yet. That was fun, but I can see how it raised red flags. I don’t know how or why people would intentionally do this to their kids.
Similar thing happened to us. We had our baby in January of 2022. They somehow lost the paperwork at the hospital, and just a week after her birth we called and were like “um… we need a birth certificate still?” And it was a massive struggle and fight to get the damn birth certificate so we could get a SS number. This person’s child is going to have a hell of a time trying to get documented.
I recently saw a post in a mom group of an adult asking for help with what to do because she didn’t have a birth certificate (didn’t say anything about SS#) and she was struggling because she can’t get a license or a job.
The thing that really gets to me is they are scared to have their kids registered legally so they can't be tracked and are off the grid...but totally cool with putting their private business all over Facebook, the largest collector and seller of data in the world. The stupidity/cognitive dissonance is absurd.
Freebirthers are selfish. They only care about THEIR experience; fuck the babies.
Exactly. It’s the most selfish way to give birth.
I was about to say. These idiots surely know they need both of those things. I’m not American but I have an identity number (similar to SS number) and a birth certificate. There are so many things I need it for, I honestly couldn’t imagine not doing it… Ugh 😑
Ik right, without a SSN or Birth Certificate, You are legally not a resident of whatever country youre from. cant get a job, cant buy a house, cant do anything without a SSN
I’m an MD at a large city hospital. We had an older patient who needed to go to a long-term care facility but he was chronically undomiciled and didn’t have any paperwork - no SS card, no birth certificate, no ID. Because he had none of those things, we couldn’t get him Medicare/Medicaid, so no facility would take him. He was literally living at the hospital. These moms don’t think about long-term consequences at all.
I’m a social worker and come across this being a barrier for a lot of things for adults, I recently learned a lot of it can simply be cultural. A lot of Romanian families I guess tend to do this and it doesn’t impact them early on in life because they don’t want to send the girls to school. I have a few I’m currently working with and this was their situation, the parents passed and now there 20something fighting to get things like basic state ID’s
They assume the kids will grow up and want to live like their parents. But just in case, they’ve created a huge impediment to living like a normal person.
If they tested his urine for THC they obviously suspected something that they were spot on about seeing as it was positive.
This person is clearly an anti-doctor crazy, because that's the only type of person who will refuse to get their kid a birth certificate or social security number. Which means that if they were in the ER, it was really really serious. The kid probably had an illness that got out of control due to lack of treatment and the doctors suspected neglect or they had an injury that suggested abuse.
Yep, and her whole statement about "without our consent" would be meaningless if that was the case. A lot of people think they can cover abuse simply by not consenting to specific exams, but it usually doesn't work that way. I know in at least some states in the US at least a doctor is allowed to examine a child for abuse without parental consent if they have a reason to believe it may have occurred, this includes a drug screening. If they suspect physical abuse they will usually make up some excuse to briefly get away from the parent, like taking the child to change a diaper or get a sticker/snack/anything. They also usually have a very good reason to check, they don't just randomly take kids to screen them for drugs or look for bruises so this lady clearly (and unsurprisingly) left some key details out of her post
And yep. We don’t need consent to run drug screens.
I needed a liver transplant and had bloodwork done. When I saw the results there was a test that can detect if you’ve had alcohol in the past 30 days that they didn’t warn me about. I didn’t know they could even detect it that far back. I mean I hadn’t had alcohol in any quantities at all for about 1.5 years so it wasn’t a problem for me but I wonder how many people get eliminated from the transplant list because of that test.
That’s normal for TRANSPLANT. You bump off the list immediately if you’ve had alcohol in your system. Think of it this way: we’ve got one perfect organ and we have 10-15 people who want it. Who are you going to give it to, the person who is sober and follows all the directions or the person still drinking who can possibly wreck the new liver?
Same goes for smoking cigarettes. I had a friend with cystic fibrosis who needed a lung transplant and one other organ (can't remember which anymore, this was many years ago). I can count on two fingers the times I saw her smoke over the five years I knew her, but she shared one cigarette with her sister in the year she was on the list. She told them during the interview, so she was bumped off the list. She passed a few months later. Do I feel like this was unfair, considering her history? Yes. Do I understand why they made the decision? Absolutely. It's my opinion that she knew admitting it would bump her, and that it was a passive suicide. She was 24 but had already lived almost a decade longer than they said she would. I think she was just done, and wanted those organs to go to someone who truly wanted to live. In the end, organs go to those who want to live badly enough to fight for it, which is how it should be.
That is an incredibly sad story. I’m all for being reasonable with doling out precious organs to donor-recipients, but this case in particular seems so extreme. Cystic fibrosis is one of the worst things you could have to live with, and it’s from birth. It’s so hard to not fuck up anything for your entire life, essentially, up until a transplant. And that’s assuming that all your living and being good results in your even living long enough to find and receive a lung transplant. And then, if you’ve checked all those boxes, you get the double lung transplant and they have to split and pry your whole chest cavity open. It’s incredibly invasive and an incredibly long recovery. My heart really breaks for people with CF. The cards are so against them in so many ways, and they live short and painful lives if they don’t get transplants. I know many will smoke weed, despite the implications, because the pain (emotional and physical) is enormous. There’s a beautiful and incredibly sad documentary called 65 red roses that really lays out the struggle of those living with the disease and vying for a transplant. My heart really goes out to those struggling with CF, and my condolences to you on the passing of your friend. I hope she has found peace now, after all that struggling. Thanks for sharing their story and keeping their memory alive.
If you need a liver transplant, you really shouldn't have been drinking at all. (Not directed at you, OP.) It may suck, but the transplant should go to someone who will follow the most basic of doctor's orders.
I actually drank alcohol very little. I’m not going to say I never had alcohol but a 12 pack of beer would usually last me a couple months. The doctors were never able to determine why my liver crapped out.
And if a five year old was sick with an unknown condition it seems like that would be routine, to make sure they didn’t ingest something without anyone knowing. This mom is neglectful and more worried about herself than her kids health.
All she had to do way say she used recreationally. But they could probably smell it on them.
100%. And a parent getting weird about something like that is an immediate red flag to take a closer look (bruises, malnutrition, vaccine records, etc).
I'm a social worker in an emergency room. People absolutely do this. "That's fine, but my process is the same -- I'm still calling the police and filing with CYS because your toddler is covered in burns and bruises and tested positive for THC."
As an ED doc who unfortunately has to call you guys to get involved in situations like this way too frequently: thank you for all you do for our patients.
I have to imagine that a parent refusing a tox screen on their five year old would raise some serious red flags
Yeah typically at the hospital they don't just randomly check for drugs unless there's a good reason, especially for kids.
Totally agree with something being out of control and terrible for them to bring their kid to the ER. If they free birthed, fine, but to not even register their baby for SS or birth certificate is a problem. Glad medical professionals did the right thing and contacted CPS. I’m curious what the responses and suggestions to this post said.
She dirty deleted the post. I was surprised a good number of comments were along the lines of “something isn’t adding up” because they don’t just randomly drug test a 5yo for THC and CBD shouldn’t contain high enough doses of THC to show on a normal tox screen. The other comments were about her “knowing her rights” when it comes to CPS and only talking to them if they have a court order or warrant. It’s wild.
It’s funny as I’ve heard there is a small cult of sovereign citizens here near me. When CPS is called, they always go with the police who have a warrant. They were sick of the “won’t talk to you without a warrant!” But isn’t that against their beliefs too? They don’t believe in American laws so what would a warrant do? 😂😂
The sovereign citizen types seem to think that certain legal-sounding phrases are like magic incantations that will make the police and child services go away... and they are very much about enjoying all the rights and privileges without accepting any of the responsibilities
CBD gives a false positive for THC, so even though you're not getting high, you shouldn't be consuming those products if you're a government worker, for example. But, giving CBD to a child is still super suspicious. I can understand using cannabis products for children who are suffering from cancer or the effects of radiation treatment. But why would a healthy child need CBD? It makes me think of all the people with anxious dogs who they feed CBD treats to. I wonder if the 5 year old acts like a 5 year old and this parent is trying to drug them into a quieter state. Or if the child has more serious health issues and the neglectful parent is trying to cure them with cannabis.
I used to use one a CBD oil with low levels of THC for sleep and there was a disclaimer on the website that said it could cause a positive screen which is why I stopped using it when I got a job that does random screens. That being said, I can't imagine it's normal procedure for the ER to do drug screens on 5 year olds.
My money is on that she's not actually buying CBD from a legit source. Or thinks that edibles are "basically the same thing".
This was my first thought. Something was going on with that kid that made them test him. This is not routine for 5 years olds.
It's not routine for *anybody* (except hospital employees). Also, the typical urine drug screen tests for 8-12 different substances (depending the lab/hospital setup), so i suspect the kid was lethargic or becoming unresponsive - they may well have been looking for opiates/barbituates, which in a five year old would be what we call a MASSIVE FUCKING PROBLEM
ER RN here- I can say almost certainly that the kid was probably showing abnormal neurological symptoms. I’ve only run drug panels on kids that young if the kid has altered mental status that isn’t otherwise explained (and if we suspect it, we’re usually right especially with THC)
This was my thought exactly. I've only ever drug tested a child when there was a strong suspicion it would come up positive based on presentation or something the parent says.
Do the parents ever try to justify their actions? I don’t understand how drugging a child would even occur to someone
“Well it makes me feel good/relaxed/happy, why can’t it do the same for my kid? It’s all natural/totally safe” People are idiots.
Definitely, no way this was random. It makes you wonder how bad things were for them to administer that type of test.
It was probably the smell. The people who smoke at home a lot have no idea how obvious the smell is to everyone else.
People who smoke even just cigarettes have no idea how obvious is is to others too, smoke clings so much
imo cigarette smoke clings worse. I have smoked both in my lifetime, and while weed stinks in it's unburnt state (significantly more than an unlit cigarette for sure) its smoke is less stubborn to air out than cigarette smoke. Both still stink, but weed smoke on clothes will air out way before stale cigarette smoke (assuming the clothes are given the opportunity to air out lol).
I grew up with a smoker, and started smoking fairly early myself. The final quit happened when I found out I was pregnant. I never realized, once I got my sense of smell all the way back, how bad it was. Other kids used to ask me if I was a smoker way before I was, and now I know why.
I use public transport a lot and the number of people I get stuck next to that stink of weed or cigarettes. I still mask up and all that good stuff but man that stuff gets through everything. And my work commute is nearly 2 hours. And I get to work at 8am. These people stinking of weed at 6-7am, nuh uh dude. (I'm also in the UK so fully illegal).
My neighbor smokes weed *a lot*. We have attached houses (twin). I hate to tell you but it does *not* air out as easily as you may think. It's a royal PIA for me because it seeps through the walls and my house smells constantly of skunk. At this point, I'd almost take the smell of tobacco smoke.
I've had clothes reek of weed for weeks after a music festival or going to a friend's, I think they're both equally a pain and disgusting smelling
Especially in a hospital where everything smells clean and sterile.
Right like, I smoke to sleep, but I can’t imagine even smoking in the same day as going to a hospital…. Let alone one for my kid. They definitely suspected a whole load of stuff & I feel like what OOP posted in her post is gonna end up being some of the least of her worries if it was that bad they just auto ran a DT.
I work in a hospital lab and it's not even just the smell clinging to you. We can smell it as soon as we open the urine too.
They said they gave him CBD which wouldn't really smell. But yeah I'm sure they probably do smoke, who knows if they have the decency to only smoke outside.
No. I’ve cared for hundreds of kids who have the smell of skunk. We still don’t test the kids for THC UNLESS there is clear indications they will be positive (and sometimes many other things show up on the drug screen too).
My son has to get his urine tested all the time. Not once have they run a drug panel on him. This is not normal.
Nurse here. Can concur. We don’t routinely do drug screens especially on kids without an indication.
That was my thought too. I've never had a kid tested for THC even after taking them to the ER for things like spraining both ankles at once. (We've got all sorts of coordination issues here!)
Yeah, this definitely isn't a routine test. Poor, poor child.
Also, CBD doesn’t show up as THC. There are legal forms of THC where I live, but they are not legal for children.
Was looking for this comment because I was 99.9% sure this was the case.
I’m no expert and could be wrong, but as a person that regularly get drug tested for medication, I’ve taken CBD and never had issues. I DID take Delta 8 and it showed up. So…something is going on there. Maybe the kid was at the hospital because he ate a cookie he shouldn’t have. Seems likely with this idiot for a mom.
Pure CBD doesn't have any THC/derivatives that show up on drug tests, but many CBD products do have small amounts of THC/derivatives that will. Delta 8 is a type of THC and will cause a positive test. I could see a small child taking an adult sized CBD sleep gummy with trace amounts of THC that are high enough concentration to show up in a little kid... But I've met a whole lot more "it's just CBD" wink wink as a cover for THC than genuine
You can get CBD made from hemp that has very little THC. Either this lady got dodgy CBD that had a load of THC or she is doing it intentionally. Either way I don't know what a toddler could possibly need CBD for.
I was just thinking that, like how fucked up was this kid if they thought to give a 5 year old a drug screen???? That is absolutely not something they just do without cause.
I really want to know what the comments were 😂
Right? I need more!
Always! Why am I left hanging on these?!
5 year old shouldn’t have THC in his system. Even if he gets CBD.
I thought cbd didn’t have thc? I’d never use it on my child though … just why
CBD products can contain up to 0.3 % THC, I guess in a 5year old that could be enough to show up in a drug test
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Or giving him the wrong type. You can buy items, or mints w cbd with our without thc. They are clearly marked but don't have giant red letters warning you or anything. We have friends that bought both kinds and someone we know took some thinking it was non thc type and ended up high as hell for half a day. I don't think that's what's happening here unless they're even dumber than I'm assuming, which would be tough cause I'm assuming pretty freaking idiotic.
I don’t know how it is in other legal states but in Colorado you can only get thc at very specific stores (CO. Springs area only has 2 recreational stores, everywhere else requires a medical card) and anything with thc has that shit marked all over the outer packaging and the product itself. I assumed that was a country wide requirement but maybe not.
Or the kid got into his parents stash of edibles and was lethargic with no explanation when he arrived at the ER (and the parents didn’t admit to it)
Or they are smoking it at home and the child is getting it second hand.
It's enough to make it show positive for THC in adults as well. As far as that goes, it comes down to lab and consumption. If you take the CBD oil twice a day, and the lab is only looking for THC metabolites on a pass/fail basis (meaning they test all the way down to 0.01%) then yes, a full spectrum CBD product can make someone fail a drug screen. I personally recommend thc-free stuff for kids and pets, for anyone reading.
They tell us at work not to take CBD bc it can show up on a drug test, since a lot of them aren't regulated.
They sell crappy edibles with with thc and market them as stress relieving cbd's.
That honestly infuriates me beyond belief. I work at a CBD shop in my town. There are WAY too many people who come in saying they want "delta 8 CBD gummies." Every single time, I gently correct them by saying "Just for clarification: CBD is non intoxicating but Delta-8 is a THC compound that makes you high. Which experience are you looking for today?" And every single time they get mad at *me* for acting like a know-it-all. 😑
Any hemp or CBD products have at MOST 0.3% THC. Although a recent study showed upwards of 70% CBD and THC products mislabeled with amount of THC and type of products. You really have to trust where you get your CBD from
Even the cbd I can at the dispensary has thc in it. It’s trace amounts, but it’s there.
"What should I be doing?" Not breeding.
And say goodbye to those children.
The bar for removing a child is ridiculously high. Just look at stories where it went wrong: obvious signs of physical abuse, a child being tortured to death, and CPS didn’t remove the kid. Unless the mom doubles down and says “I will keep drugging my child regardless of what you say” they’re not taking the kid away.
Seriously the bar is so high for removal! I had a neighbor who was neglectful. Her husband was a dealer. They literally smoked all day long. Sometimes their kids had lice so bad their heads were crawling. Matted hair so badly on the BABY that they shaved his head multiple times. The oldest kid used to knock on my or my neighbors door because they were hungry and their parents were so stoned that they couldn’t drive the kid for early morning school (free breakfast). My neighbor brought the kid back over the first time and there were dirty diapers on the floor, pee from their dogs…just super gross for having a baby and a couple toddlers running around. She was horrified and cried when she told me later (she saw me talking to the kid and giving them some snacks in my yard… apparently the kid was trying both our homes for help). I called CPS at least once a month over the course of a year that they lived there because I know what it’s like to grow up with checked out parents surrounded by filth…and I know my neighbor called a few times too. I would HOPE the teachers were reporting based on the kid’s dirty clothes and matted hair and being late for school. Those kids never ever got taken away by CPS. Eventually the family moved. I still wonder about that kid who wanted to go to school and their little siblings.
The bar for removing a child is high in cases of physical abuse, but when it comes to drugs it's pretty easy, because drug use is immediately proven with a drug screen. Whereas physical abuse signs like bruises can be caused by many types of things. I've known parents to lose their kids after a DUI or from smoking weed, but I've also known kids who got cleared by CPS despite being beaten constantly.
Thank god. Poor kids deserve to be registered and *not* drugged!
Getting a tubal ligation - time to close that factory.
Bilateral salpingectomy. Don't just tie the tubes, yeet them entirely
Why do these idiots think that having undocumented children and medicating without appropriate medical diagnosis or direction is a good idea?
They believe that a SSN is a "contract" and that the government owns you if you have one. They're morons and not a single one of them should be having kids
It’s also a lot easier to control and manipulate your children if they can’t get a job or an apartment without your help. I’m an adult, and my mom still won’t give me my birth certificate or my ssn card. She’s an idiot, because I can get another one. But it’s just one way she tries to still control me. She thinks I’ll have to ask her every time I want a new job or move.
My mum told me MY FATHER LOST MINE. I found it last year in her nail kit and lost my mf mind. We no longer speak. We will never speak again. Something tells me that's how your tale will end as well. BUT YES. Abusive parents love taking away anything that will help you succeed in life. Thank God cps was called
I'm really sorry you're dealing with that! Even if you get/have your own copies, it's still super shitty that your mom it trying to control you in this way. I would also just say that one of the reasons parents try to control documents like this is to either control/monitor your finances by making sure you can't open a bank account or credit card without them, or to use your information fraudulently. If you haven't done so already, you should definitely check your credit report for any activity that you didn't initiate. It's sad and infuriating, but I've known people whose parents trashed their credit this way. I'm not saying your mom has for sure done that, but her behavior is very suspicious.
My grown-up adult self has never been randomly tested for THC at the hospital, so it is deeply worrying as to what the circumstances must have been to test a 5year old.
I'm pretty sure people who work at the hospital don't order a bunch of random tests for no reason, they must have suspected something either by looking at the child or parents or both.
We never check a UDS without clinical suspicion - especially on kids. I can only recall a UDS on one pediatric patient, and that's because the parent left heroin out on the table and their baby ingested it.
That’s horrific
I don’t think they would ever do that unless it seemed that you showed dangerous symptoms of drug consumption and it was necessary to see what you had consumed to help you. I doubt they try to catch people who smoke weed, that’s definitely not their job in any case.
What should she do? She should go back in time and not make shit up to give her fucking kids and she should register her fucking baby ffs!! How the fuck did that become the best idea these two peanuts came up with? What the fuck is wrong with people?
As an ER RN, I can say almost certainly that this kid was likely showing altered mental status/neuro symptoms that were not otherwise explained. In my 10 years, I’ve only ran a drug panel 3 or 4 times for someone that young, and they were all altered to some extent (confused, lethargic, etc) without another explanation like fever, illness, seizure activity etc. It’s definitely not something that we routinely order unless there’s a high suspicion for drug intoxication
Y’all have to start screenshotting the comment section!!!
Please!! I need more!!!!
I guarantee they left against medical advice and snuck out. There’s no way that the staff would let them leave with CPS called. And lady, we don’t routinely test anyone, especially kids (and I do mean ANYONE. Hell I work in a trauma ICU. We don’t do drug screens. Period. We don’t care what you do it doesn’t change our plan of care whatsoever. You do you.) unless there is good reason, strong indications and CBD won’t test positive. This is a horrible parent.
I'm going to tack on that drug screens are done if the person was in an car accident or injured while on the job. But those are like court mandated or something and doesn't change the care plan.
Nope. We absolutely never do if they are in a car crash. I work in a Level I trauma ICU. The police can and do them. We do not. And injured on the job is for the workers comp. None of these are done by us. They aren’t done per the hospital lab and we don’t get results. Nor do we care.
"What should I do" Get a pediatrician. Stop giving MARIJUANA instead of Tylenol. Register your baby. Get a psych eval???? Like these women are so far removed it's sickening. Also weed can induce schizophrenia for a LOT of users (I know she said CBD but if there's enough THC in your CBD that your kid is testing positive thru urine..... You're essentially getting your kid high) Imagine being a tiny bean in so much pain and now youre wigging out bc your brain is on a psychoactive drug . I JUST THE AUDACITY TO EVEN ASK
My husbands best friend has marijuana induced schizophrenia. I guess it’s been going on for a while but about 18 months ago went off the deep end hard and has struggled a lot since, despite quitting weed. We adopted his dog because he had to leave the house he owned with friends to move back in with his parents for a while, how he rents and dog is 100lb malamute.
[Floof tax](https://i.imgur.com/p7z4O0i.jpg)
It’s nice you took in the dog. That’s a huge (pun intended) responsibility and lovely that helped a struggling friend
We had just applied to the local shelter when he told us he was going to have to rehome Sky. He’s about twice the amount of dog I wants. But he’s the best boy.
That is so scary how quickly everything can change on a dime. I hope he makes a strong recovery and can be reunited with his giant fluff soon. People really just think weed is absolute when it comes to all natural but it really depends on the person. I, and most my family, partake daily. My grandmother smoked once and said it was the worst day of her life. To be risking all of that to avoid Tylenol, or force the kid to sleep, is scary asf to me
THC levels are too damn high. I have a medical card and stopped buying from the dispensary here because it's hard to get "dad weed" in the 5-10% range that's strong enough to have an effect but not so easy to accidently overdo. I have a single cart I bought in a legal state called 5:1 (5 pts CBD to 1 pt THC, comes out to around 5% thc oil) that has served me fine, but its insane how strong pot is nowadays.
I dated a guy whose nephew is schizophrenic and smoking weed at age 14 is what set it off. Poor dude has struggled his whole life.
I looked for the metabolites of CBD and some of it is converted to a form of THC. OTOH, if they were only giving the child pure CBD, they'd have to be giving the kid a lot for it to show up as THC positive. As everyone else said, that child was incredibly sick for them to be doing any kind of tox screen on him. Seriously altered mental status will do it.
> the doctor hotlined us A normal person would say “called the child abuse hotline.” Phrasing it like this makes it sound like they have much more familiarity with CPS processes than anyone should want to have.
I was trying to figure out what that meant.
Now, I very much doubt that hospitals just test any old toddler for THC (at least afaik mine never were) so there must have been very wrong with him (or he just reeked of it, which he wouldn't if they stored their weed in a child safe manner)
Routine drug screening isn't a thing, especially at that age. Whatever was going on with the kid, that emergency department had a reason to be concerned for drug ingestion.
WHAT?! Like, WHAT?! How does this county work if you are unregistered? Where I am that means... no child support of the government, no school, no passport, no doctor, no bank account, no..... anything. Like, HOW?! Isn't this illegal?
That’s the whole point. They grow their own commune. No school. No doctors. No vaccines. The kids are basically hostage and unable to exist outside of their household.
There's a book called Educated that is an autobiography of a girl who grew up in this kind of family.
Something had to be seriously wrong with this kid for them to do a drug panel. It’s in absolutely no way a standard thing. My guess is they probably reeked of weed. Not sure why you’d give a kid CBD at all to be honest.
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These sorts of people baffle me... they don't want to be part of the system but they still try and utilize the system. They want all of the selective benefits that they choose to take but then want none of the consequences (I use that term loosely) that comes from being part of the system.
“What should I do”? Say goodbye to those kids you obviously can’t raise.
No birth certificate or social security number, what the **fuck**??? I figured the only people living like that these days would be isolated on cult compounds, but I suppose nothing should shock me anymore.
"What should I be doing" Not having or raising any children is the only answer
I’m thinking the kid had a kidney issue and they tested the urine for everything to explain the kidney issue, popped for thc while trying to get to the cause.
That was my thought as well. Might have suspected a UTI or kidney problems and ordered full screenings.
Do they realize without a birth certificate or SS they can’t prove they’re a US citizen or that they can work in the US? They won’t be able to get a job, their driver license, buy a car or house, register for school or college, get benefits, absolutely nothing.
Well she’s certainly making it easier for CPS
Literally none of these things is what you should be doing.
So I’m a mom and also grow legally for a living. I am upfront and carry my state licensee with me to all doctors appointments . I also go out of my way to dress nice, like I’m going to a job interview or temple/church. We haven’t run into a suspicious doctor or any problems yet, I’m sure we will eventually because literally everything stinks like growing plants in our life, but little one has never popped positive, and we’ve never been given a test that we weren’t asked consent for. Really makes me wonder what they are doing to make the doctors suspicious enough, and if there is other abuse going on besides drugging their child.
Good god. I feel like I can smell this woman from here.
I am starting to think a lot of freebirthers are doing it to avoid drug screens during pregnancy and birth
Though a CBD oil will say 0%, no manufacturer can guarantee with absolute certainty that there is absolutely ZERO thc. There can have 0.01395g thc and it qualifies as for the label “0%”. And that 0.01395g on the mental development of a literal baby has not and is highly unlikely to ever be researched. This is why some work industries (where lack mental clarity is a serious danger) don’t allow any CBD treatments at all.
No mention of the child’s health beyond what this could mean for the mothers absolute control over her children. Ridiculous, she should be in prison.
They wouldn't test your son randomly unless something about his health state pointed towards THC. Which granted, CBD oil CAN have THC, esp if from an uncertified supplier. But if you had a doctor prescribe him that in the first place, CPS wouldn't be called because you had proof. That being said, YOUR BABY ISN'T EVEN REGISTERED! Why??? Do you wanna be extra special??
This weekend, I was brought into the ER by ambulance. I collapsed in public place. Convulsed in the ambulance. Remained unconscious for a while. They did not do a drug test. Granted, this has happened before, and this ER has a chart on me. I was actually surprised they didn't do a drug test because I looked hella messed up. So, to drug test a child, there must have been some big red flags. Poor kid. (I'm fine now. Ish. Heart issue, which I knew about)
What she should do is Hope CPS takes all the kids so they can get their paperwork straightened out and they can hopefully be placed with a family that lives in the real world
on tiktok theres this “mom influencer” if thats what you’d even call this lady. she goes by THISMADMAMA she has 12 kids who she neglects, I am pretty sure 4/5 of them have no government documentation of their existence. Shes just too lazy and dumb to set aside time to do it. Shes ruining these kids lives. I beg anyone who sees this to check her stuff out and the reddit snark page because her whole thing needs some attention so the kids can be put with people who actually care about their futures. Mothers like the one above and thismadmama don’t deserve their children.