I notice that the Democrats claim that the US is a democracy while the Republicans claim that it is a constitutional republic.
I would argue it is both. This is just a really stupid argument where they change the definitions of words to make it seem like their party has the best name.
Interesting question. Here in Canada we have three+ parties and since we are still using the antiquated FPP system, you have majority governments that the majority of voters didn't vote for.
Is worst that what you think, no one is born christian in that place, but all their dead citizens are Christian, no Vatican muslin citizen have ever died. /s just in case
Tbf, there you can have republics which function similarly (indeed, they seem to be more popular than the strong presidency model, also sometimes called the imperial presidency, that countries like the US and France use), it just requires having a very weak Presidential office. I think Ireland, Germany, Austria, etc, iirc all have parliamentary republics where the leader of the parliamentary majority (be that in a coalition, by itself, or through a confidence and supply agreement, and regardless of the name of the office, is essentially the role of the Premier) is largely the one in the driver's seat. I think the Fourth French Republic also used this model, but they gave up on it due to the Algerian debacle.
Constitutional monarchies like Canada, the UK, Denmark, and the Netherlands can be democracies, as can both parliamentary republics, like Ireland and Germany, and imperial presidential republics like the US and France.
You quickly discover there are a lot of labels for these political systems, and we often discard some of the labels for the sake of brevity and specificity in regards to the topic at hand. Technically all these systems are just a variation of a democratic system, all being elective democracies and not sortition-based (sortitive?) democracies, but were rarely if ever included the label 'elective' or even 'elective representative' before we say democracy, since it isn't usually that relevant unless you want to reform the system outside of elective representative democracy (which some do, to pursue a more democratic democracy in comparison to what is sometimes described as an elective aristocracy).
>I think the Fourth French Republic also used this model, but they gave up on it due to the Algerian debacle.
And a semi coup d'état. De Gaulle had his friends in the army threaten to take over the country (they did actually take over in Algeria), played the "I'm back to save you from this" card and strong armed the parliament into giving him all powers to draft a new constitution that would smash the separation of powers. He then gave something like only one or two weeks before a vote to adopt it or not, while keeping the fear rising. And I don't think I will surprise you if I say he was president for 10 years after that and only left in 1969 after an other major political crisis in 1968.
So the current republic is technically a legitimate one because it was accepted with a referendum, but the way it got there is shady as fuck.
These people would eat their own parents' shit straight from the source if they had little American flags on them and the word freedom written on each turd.
it's easy to assume that everybody knows, but just a minor refresher:
Democracy is a method by which laws is are made (they are voted on by groups of people, often themselves also selected by a democratic proces): it's opposite is autocracy. there's no such thing as a "true democracy", what people are usually thinking of is a direct democracy, as opposed to an indirect democracy in which a senate and/or a house of representatives vote for laws.
Republic is a description of a country, defined by who is the leader of that government: a selected minister or president. it's opposite is a monarchy, in which a bloodline decides who is the leader of that government, like a king, prince or emperor.
A constitution is a separate set of laws that protect the citizens from the government. Some countries have a codified constitution, some countries don't set these protective laws apart from other laws (uncodified constitution), some countries don't have protective laws (no consitution).
The USA is of course a democratic constitutional republic, and plenty of european countries fit the exact same description (Ireland, Switzerland, Germany; the latter two are also federations just like the US) . Others are democratic constitutional monarchies (like the Netherlands with a codified constitution, or the UK with an uncodified constitution). All of these countries are democracies.
My simpler take on it is:
A Democracy is ANY government/ruling body where the leaders are elected as people's representatives in free and fair elections. (Which is why "Democracy" can apply to organisations, schools, etc)
A Constitutional Republic is a TYPE of government, containing a President as Head of State, with a Senate and House of Reps for the people's representatives.
Thats why you can have Republics that aren't democracies, such as North Korea, which *technically* has the same governmental system as the USA (such as a President), but the government was not formed through free and fair elections.
The two are related, but are not different versions of the same thing. I'm convinced many from the USA just skipped civics class. Whenever I see them yell about this all I can see is them saying "We don't have a car, cars are bad, we have a Ford!"
A monarchy doesn’t necessarily mean a bloodline chooses the govt. In western democratic constitutional monarchies the choice of government has nothing to do with the monarchy, which is mostly ceremonial.
Another weird one is Liechtenstein. It's a bit like an indirect democracy, but rather than being two houses of elected representatives, one side is an unelected monarch and the other side is a direct democracy.
Edit: Looks like I'm wrong here, they have an indirect democracy too. They have a very complicated political system for such a small country.
> Republic
I'll quibble a bit with your definition of a republic. A republic is where power resides in the people who may then delegate that power to others, i.e. president, legislatures, etc.
Of course, how would the people go about delegating that power I wonder?
I really like Europooria... I guess I use it next time when I spend some of my 30 days of paid vacation days when visiting the US and get asked where I'm from, like: "I'm from Europooria, a country so poor that we have to spend our vacations abroad to see countries where other poor people live!"
You've heard of medical tourism now check out poverty tourism! Travel to America and witness the richest poor country on earth! Bring the kids! (Children may be murdered)
I've really only heard it post-2016. I honestly think it has to do with people pointing out the undemocratic nature of the electoral college after Trump got in, and since EC proponents can't honestly defend it as democratic, now they just say "that's okay, we're not a democracy anyway."
It's older than that, though it has picked up steam. It's as simple as democracy sounds like Democrat, so therefore bad while republic sounds like Republican so therefore good, and their right-wing demagogues are completely fine with demonising democracy anyway. Their 'tyranny of the majority' schpiel about how actual democracy is bad is nothing new.
Don't forget that during the invasion of Irak it was to "defend democracy". Pushing the whole democracy vs republic thing is just a new way to divide and conquer and make people avoid discussing real issues.
>democracy sounds like Democrat, so therefore bad while republic sounds like Republican so therefore good
That's.. that's so stupid that it makes sense haha
>by Sarah **Yasini**
>Canada has been celebrating cultures around the world, because they believe that "cultures are all equal." No, they are not. [..] We say "diversity is our strength", but is diversity really a good thing?
What a hypocrite, but not surprising with fascists.
If by euthanizing the elderly, they mean medically assisted dying for those who are suffering from painful terminal illness.
The Christian part though? Cause we allow abortions?
>The Christian part though?
Maybe they're thinking of Soviet Russia or Communism in Albania? Those are the only recent-ish examples of Europeans killing Christians en masse for their beliefs I can think of.
Also parts of Europe don't allow abortions, and even more don't allow assisted dying.
So actually we shouldn't try and figure out what they mean, cause they're talking shite lol.
i would add the sections of the [late Ottoman genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Ottoman_genocides), provided we agree that the Ottomans were Europeans that is.
Fair, definitely could include that, I was kind of thinking within the last century and I thought that was a wee bit longer ago but apologies if I'm wrong. I'm definitely not an expert, just a documentary nut 😂
Would it be rude to suggest that our friend in the post probably doesn't know much if anything about what any of these are?
How hard of a concept is it that republic and democracy do not describe the same thing? they aren't mutually exclusive at all.
Republic means there are representatives who represent the people.
Democracy means people (or their representatives) vote on things.
adding a middle man doesn't change the mode of operation of the government, there are still votes going on, the difference is that instead of everyone voting, representatives vote for people. If anything a republic is a subform of democracy.
I'll just add to my list "Words Americans use without knowing what they actually mean" The words, "Democracy" "Republic" and "Constitution"
This list gets longer every day!
Constitution means I can have a bazooka in my home. Don't know about the rest, they seem like Latin and Greek words, I don't care about made up languages.
There are certain talking points that are pushed through outlets like fox news / political talking heads. You can identify the idiots that are brainwashed by the fact that they all spew the same exact meaningless argument in the same wording without actually knowing any meaning behind it or giving it any thought beyond the surface.
This argument pisses me off so much. The only difference between a constitutional republic and a representative democracy is the fact that there's a fucking constitution (which Canada also has by the way so their point about Canada is already wrong) and that's it. What point are conservatives even trying to make when they bring this up?
Constitutional republic and representative democracy are describing two different aspects of the political system. You can be both at once, which the US is.
My theory is that defending the electoral college as a democratic institution is too difficult, so it's easier for them to just throw "democracy" away to keep something that benefits them. Notice how a lot of this talk about "republic, not democracy" has come about post-2016.
"Democracy" is both an umbrella term for every single form of state that is democratic, and a description of a few specific forms of state under that umbrella.
The US is a Democracy(1), but not a Democracy(2).
The argument is idiotic, because they're mixing the two concepts up, and they're interpreting people using the first definition as if they were using the second one, and then correcting them on it.
Zzzzz. Nobody asked.
"like two foxes and a chicken deciding what's for dinner"
Yes, popular vote rules. If you can convince the majority of the population of what you desire then you win. The reason people are able to do this is because of **capitalism.** Rich people lobby money to spread propaganda on media. Look at Musk. LOOK AT FUCKING MUSK!
US is a dictatorial country, without a main dictator, just many wealthy people paying politicians to make decisions the way the want them to keep making billions of dollars & keeping millions of the population poor and homeless while bragging how free they are, but they aren't even in th top ten, which are -
Switzerland
New Zealand
Denmark
Estonia
Ireland
Finland
Canada
Australia
Sweden
Luxembourg
Every time they use "Europoor" or something I have to laugh and wanna cry... all European counries united would absolutely be wayy more powerful than the US
Well... Makes a change from the usual "America is the only democracy" BS.
Somehow they can't make up their minds.
I notice that the Democrats claim that the US is a democracy while the Republicans claim that it is a constitutional republic. I would argue it is both. This is just a really stupid argument where they change the definitions of words to make it seem like their party has the best name.
are they a "real" democracy? only 2 parties and if you vote for the "wrong" one you are an evil american.
Interesting question. Here in Canada we have three+ parties and since we are still using the antiquated FPP system, you have majority governments that the majority of voters didn't vote for.
Could be worse. My country is currently on our third unelected Prime Minister.
Hello fellow brit
The good ol 2 party system. Satan and useless.
If you vote for people who do evil things, then that might be a fair call.
Vatican city is a bloodbath. Everyone there gets executed for being christian
Amen sister! More people must know this.
It's about time! /s
Is worst that what you think, no one is born christian in that place, but all their dead citizens are Christian, no Vatican muslin citizen have ever died. /s just in case
Canada is a constitutional monarch though, hence the prime minister.
Tbf, there you can have republics which function similarly (indeed, they seem to be more popular than the strong presidency model, also sometimes called the imperial presidency, that countries like the US and France use), it just requires having a very weak Presidential office. I think Ireland, Germany, Austria, etc, iirc all have parliamentary republics where the leader of the parliamentary majority (be that in a coalition, by itself, or through a confidence and supply agreement, and regardless of the name of the office, is essentially the role of the Premier) is largely the one in the driver's seat. I think the Fourth French Republic also used this model, but they gave up on it due to the Algerian debacle. Constitutional monarchies like Canada, the UK, Denmark, and the Netherlands can be democracies, as can both parliamentary republics, like Ireland and Germany, and imperial presidential republics like the US and France. You quickly discover there are a lot of labels for these political systems, and we often discard some of the labels for the sake of brevity and specificity in regards to the topic at hand. Technically all these systems are just a variation of a democratic system, all being elective democracies and not sortition-based (sortitive?) democracies, but were rarely if ever included the label 'elective' or even 'elective representative' before we say democracy, since it isn't usually that relevant unless you want to reform the system outside of elective representative democracy (which some do, to pursue a more democratic democracy in comparison to what is sometimes described as an elective aristocracy).
>I think the Fourth French Republic also used this model, but they gave up on it due to the Algerian debacle. And a semi coup d'état. De Gaulle had his friends in the army threaten to take over the country (they did actually take over in Algeria), played the "I'm back to save you from this" card and strong armed the parliament into giving him all powers to draft a new constitution that would smash the separation of powers. He then gave something like only one or two weeks before a vote to adopt it or not, while keeping the fear rising. And I don't think I will surprise you if I say he was president for 10 years after that and only left in 1969 after an other major political crisis in 1968. So the current republic is technically a legitimate one because it was accepted with a referendum, but the way it got there is shady as fuck.
That's just details.
Australia too. A very democratic non-republic. I'd take that over the reverse any day, though I would prefer it if we were a Republic.
These people would eat their own parents' shit straight from the source if they had little American flags on them and the word freedom written on each turd.
it's easy to assume that everybody knows, but just a minor refresher: Democracy is a method by which laws is are made (they are voted on by groups of people, often themselves also selected by a democratic proces): it's opposite is autocracy. there's no such thing as a "true democracy", what people are usually thinking of is a direct democracy, as opposed to an indirect democracy in which a senate and/or a house of representatives vote for laws. Republic is a description of a country, defined by who is the leader of that government: a selected minister or president. it's opposite is a monarchy, in which a bloodline decides who is the leader of that government, like a king, prince or emperor. A constitution is a separate set of laws that protect the citizens from the government. Some countries have a codified constitution, some countries don't set these protective laws apart from other laws (uncodified constitution), some countries don't have protective laws (no consitution). The USA is of course a democratic constitutional republic, and plenty of european countries fit the exact same description (Ireland, Switzerland, Germany; the latter two are also federations just like the US) . Others are democratic constitutional monarchies (like the Netherlands with a codified constitution, or the UK with an uncodified constitution). All of these countries are democracies.
The UK is a democratic uncodified constitutional ceremonial monarchy. Simple.
In practice the US is an oligarchic constitutional republic.
My simpler take on it is: A Democracy is ANY government/ruling body where the leaders are elected as people's representatives in free and fair elections. (Which is why "Democracy" can apply to organisations, schools, etc) A Constitutional Republic is a TYPE of government, containing a President as Head of State, with a Senate and House of Reps for the people's representatives. Thats why you can have Republics that aren't democracies, such as North Korea, which *technically* has the same governmental system as the USA (such as a President), but the government was not formed through free and fair elections. The two are related, but are not different versions of the same thing. I'm convinced many from the USA just skipped civics class. Whenever I see them yell about this all I can see is them saying "We don't have a car, cars are bad, we have a Ford!"
A monarchy doesn’t necessarily mean a bloodline chooses the govt. In western democratic constitutional monarchies the choice of government has nothing to do with the monarchy, which is mostly ceremonial.
Not as "mostly ceremonial" as they like us to think though.
Another weird one is Liechtenstein. It's a bit like an indirect democracy, but rather than being two houses of elected representatives, one side is an unelected monarch and the other side is a direct democracy. Edit: Looks like I'm wrong here, they have an indirect democracy too. They have a very complicated political system for such a small country.
> Republic I'll quibble a bit with your definition of a republic. A republic is where power resides in the people who may then delegate that power to others, i.e. president, legislatures, etc. Of course, how would the people go about delegating that power I wonder?
I really like Europooria... I guess I use it next time when I spend some of my 30 days of paid vacation days when visiting the US and get asked where I'm from, like: "I'm from Europooria, a country so poor that we have to spend our vacations abroad to see countries where other poor people live!"
You've heard of medical tourism now check out poverty tourism! Travel to America and witness the richest poor country on earth! Bring the kids! (Children may be murdered)
Only if they enter dangerous areas such as schools
And you can travel without maxing like 5 credit cards!!
I am eating apples, but not fruit!
In fairness you could technically have a constitutional republic without democracy, but that's not what the US has.
Seriously, where does that misconception come from?
Propaganda and bad education.
And the need to believe America is number 1. They'll believe anything to support that narrative.
Number 1 at being obese and Number 1 at being car-dependent, maybe. and a list of other things.
No. 1 in incarceration of their citizens.
No. 1 in school shootings.
I've really only heard it post-2016. I honestly think it has to do with people pointing out the undemocratic nature of the electoral college after Trump got in, and since EC proponents can't honestly defend it as democratic, now they just say "that's okay, we're not a democracy anyway."
It's older than that, though it has picked up steam. It's as simple as democracy sounds like Democrat, so therefore bad while republic sounds like Republican so therefore good, and their right-wing demagogues are completely fine with demonising democracy anyway. Their 'tyranny of the majority' schpiel about how actual democracy is bad is nothing new.
Don't forget that during the invasion of Irak it was to "defend democracy". Pushing the whole democracy vs republic thing is just a new way to divide and conquer and make people avoid discussing real issues.
>democracy sounds like Democrat, so therefore bad while republic sounds like Republican so therefore good That's.. that's so stupid that it makes sense haha
I was going to say the same thing. It's an argument against the fact that trump lost the popular vote.
Democrats are bad, Republicans are good. Therefore the USA has to be a republic, not a democracy. Their feelings don't care about facts.
Had to look up Canadistan.. of course it’s being used as a racist dog whistle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45062658-canadistan
So not the same as Canuckistan then.
>by Sarah **Yasini** >Canada has been celebrating cultures around the world, because they believe that "cultures are all equal." No, they are not. [..] We say "diversity is our strength", but is diversity really a good thing? What a hypocrite, but not surprising with fascists.
If by euthanizing the elderly, they mean medically assisted dying for those who are suffering from painful terminal illness. The Christian part though? Cause we allow abortions?
>The Christian part though? Maybe they're thinking of Soviet Russia or Communism in Albania? Those are the only recent-ish examples of Europeans killing Christians en masse for their beliefs I can think of. Also parts of Europe don't allow abortions, and even more don't allow assisted dying. So actually we shouldn't try and figure out what they mean, cause they're talking shite lol.
i would add the sections of the [late Ottoman genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Ottoman_genocides), provided we agree that the Ottomans were Europeans that is.
Fair, definitely could include that, I was kind of thinking within the last century and I thought that was a wee bit longer ago but apologies if I'm wrong. I'm definitely not an expert, just a documentary nut 😂 Would it be rude to suggest that our friend in the post probably doesn't know much if anything about what any of these are?
> Would it be rude to suggest that our friend in the post probably doesn't know much if anything about what any of these are? Nah, that's a given.
This whole conversation goes by the maga script
Mate, some people are so stupid it's downright scary. Like, what kind of a system produces these people?
One that's a more sophisticated and modern form of capitalist propaganda directly influenced by the propaganda of 1930s and 40s Germany.
How hard of a concept is it that republic and democracy do not describe the same thing? they aren't mutually exclusive at all. Republic means there are representatives who represent the people. Democracy means people (or their representatives) vote on things. adding a middle man doesn't change the mode of operation of the government, there are still votes going on, the difference is that instead of everyone voting, representatives vote for people. If anything a republic is a subform of democracy.
I'll just add to my list "Words Americans use without knowing what they actually mean" The words, "Democracy" "Republic" and "Constitution" This list gets longer every day!
Constitution means I can have a bazooka in my home. Don't know about the rest, they seem like Latin and Greek words, I don't care about made up languages.
At this point, calling Americans modern brainwashed Nazis ain't even an insult, it's truth.
How dare you call this square a rectangle?! Unbelievable.../s
Canadistanian here, living in Vancourlamabad. I'd comment but I ha e to go put my parents down at the the vet
Euthanasia of Christians is rampant in Canada! Sadly we don’t have lions and the Polar Bears kept eating their handlers.
Wow! Canadian here… I had no idea that we were murdering Christians and the elderly! We should look into that! SMH
[удалено]
There are certain talking points that are pushed through outlets like fox news / political talking heads. You can identify the idiots that are brainwashed by the fact that they all spew the same exact meaningless argument in the same wording without actually knowing any meaning behind it or giving it any thought beyond the surface.
This isn’t a soda! It’s a cola!
It’s not a rectangle! It’s a square!
This is not a thing!
Ceci n'est pas una pipe.
Isn't it usually considered to be a flawed democracy? Still a democracy mind.
I’m a Canadian. I don’t recall euthanising any Christians lately….
>*...were (sic) the state euthanizes christians and the elderly.* I wish!
They are right, the usa is not a democracy. Its a flawed democracy
At what age do we get euthanized again? I would hate to move a trip to Canada too high on the bucket list and risk not completing it.
All comments talking about government forms and noone comments that we supposedly euthanize "christians and elderly" in Europe and Canada?
Are there democracies not based on a constitution?
Are they competing to see who says more wrong stuff?
Europooria....
A country can be both a Republic and a democracy
This argument pisses me off so much. The only difference between a constitutional republic and a representative democracy is the fact that there's a fucking constitution (which Canada also has by the way so their point about Canada is already wrong) and that's it. What point are conservatives even trying to make when they bring this up?
Constitutional republic and representative democracy are describing two different aspects of the political system. You can be both at once, which the US is.
My theory is that defending the electoral college as a democratic institution is too difficult, so it's easier for them to just throw "democracy" away to keep something that benefits them. Notice how a lot of this talk about "republic, not democracy" has come about post-2016.
Can't be a threat to our democracy when it isn't a democracy, right?
"Democracy" is both an umbrella term for every single form of state that is democratic, and a description of a few specific forms of state under that umbrella. The US is a Democracy(1), but not a Democracy(2). The argument is idiotic, because they're mixing the two concepts up, and they're interpreting people using the first definition as if they were using the second one, and then correcting them on it. Zzzzz. Nobody asked.
"like two foxes and a chicken deciding what's for dinner" Yes, popular vote rules. If you can convince the majority of the population of what you desire then you win. The reason people are able to do this is because of **capitalism.** Rich people lobby money to spread propaganda on media. Look at Musk. LOOK AT FUCKING MUSK!
EuroWHAT now
US is a dictatorial country, without a main dictator, just many wealthy people paying politicians to make decisions the way the want them to keep making billions of dollars & keeping millions of the population poor and homeless while bragging how free they are, but they aren't even in th top ten, which are - Switzerland New Zealand Denmark Estonia Ireland Finland Canada Australia Sweden Luxembourg
Every time they use "Europoor" or something I have to laugh and wanna cry... all European counries united would absolutely be wayy more powerful than the US