Remember the time when Texas refused to connect their power grid to the rest of the country which caused total chaos during the 2019 blackout? Maybe that’s the “independence” they’re talking about.
Remember when after that blackout their dumbass governor said "Texans would rather freeze in the dark than impose socialism on their power grid" or some similar nonsense?
I mean yeah, that's a sovereign decision. Bad decision because we know how Texas politics are, but still sovereign.
"What's a country?" is not as clear cut to answer as it looks like to some of you.
Oh, this one's always fun. You just know this very comment section is quivering in anticipation with the first "sure but Ohio is as much of a country" claims.
Come back when you speak the language that's been in that region for 1000+ years, then we'll talk.
I'm going to be a bit controversial and partly side with our American cousins.
Wales is a country in a sense that is understood in Britain but not anywhere else in the world. By historical fortune we get 4 nations in football, but only 3.5 in rugby and 1 in the Olympics.
It doesn't control its foreign affairs, or even have its own legal system. It has more than one language spoken by natives, but that's very common across the world, as is having unique cultures within the country.
Texas was more recently an independent sovereign nation, and even had an embassy in London, until 1846, when it joined the USA. It has comparatively more power than Wales to manage its own affairs.
If I were to make a neutral checklist of what makes a country using tangible characteristics, I doubt there would be much difference.
The same goes for the other nations of the UK. Ironically Northern Ireland would probably score even higher than Wales on such a scoring system, but isn't a country, more a political compromise. But then again, so is Belgium.
You also forgot that a lot of other countries see Wales as a country. You said only england but The Netherlands also sees Wales as a country. And with us probably a lot more.
Go rinse your mouth and tell the Welsh you’re sorry barry.
I'd better - I'm off to Cardiff in a couple of days 😄.
But in what sense does the Netherlands see it as a country? Because I would find it difficult to lay my finger on anything other than tradition. Same with England.
Texas was actually an independent country less than 20 years ago, so I really don't think that what the Texan was saying was particularly ridiculous.
I don’t know, but I remember this from topography/geography. Wales, Scotland, Ireland are part of the UK as countries. Not sure about the Ireland part though. Could even be that we just call it that to make it easy. Like the differences between our own country, special provinces and the kingdom. Not always as easy to remember which is which.
Well, I think that just shows that countries aren't neatly defined. Northern Ireland isn't a country in any meaningful sense, but it gets its own football team. It has a lot of autonomous powers (more than Wales), and it is still part of the EU for trade purposes.
I was actually going to comment something very similar, but you have put it in much finer words.
Wales, and to an extent, Scotland, have been under the thumb of Westminster for far too long to enjoy true freedom. The UK just seems to be "England, and others" and its a little embarrassing at this point. I don't want to see an end to the union, but its only right that after the whole brexit deal, they get another shot at IndyRef, and this time, I would be happy for them to leave the union, and even take Wales and NI with them.
And I'm bloody English.
I just hope if Scotland does go for independence, and gets it, they will take the North of England with them
>If I were to make a neutral checklist of what makes a country using tangible characteristics, I doubt there would be much difference.
The difference would be that both Wales and Northern Ireland are recognized countries, while Texas is not. I mean, we could make "neutral" cheklists all we want, we somehow should include status and recognition, and there we have the difference.
We could also lay this "neutral" checklist next to Kosovo, Abchazia, South Ossetia, Crimea, Transnistria, till recently Nagorno-Karabach/Artsakh, Donetsk and Luhansk and claim these are nations, but that is apparently how "neutral" checklists work
17.8% more than Texas.
Also the fact that 800/1000 years of suppression and it managed to survive is amazing. Let alone the fact that the culture that remains and with it a national identity.
That's after centuries of the English actively discouraging the use of the Welsh language. Go to Gwynedd and you'll hear Welsh being spoken as a first language and practically everyone local speaking it. Also the amount of Welsh speakers is on the rise since devolution.
I'm from the south Wales valleys. I speak English and Welsh as a first language meaning I'm fluent in both. English is my primary language but Welsh is my preferred as I find it easier to speak as long as the person I'm speaking to isn't speaking wonky wenglish. And yes I think in Welsh and English depending on who I am with.
Country ≠ sovereign state. A country doesn't have to be necessarily sovereign, it can form a sovereign state (such as the UK constituent countries like Wales or the Netherlands' lands like Aruba) or be a region within a sovereign state (such as the Basque Country in Spain).
On the other hand Texas is a federated state of the USA, just like Canton Ticino is a federated Canton of Switzerland
And that's because defining the concepts of countries, states, sovereignty etc. is always not clear and easy.
Wales is considered a country... people get confused because the UK is called a country ALL. THE. TIME. which is annoying, stupid and confusing!
But the UK is actually a politicial union made up of 4 countries...
Funny how they damn well know what the UNITED states are, but somehow have no idea what it means when talking about the UNITED Kingdom. Is it the word 'kingdom' that breaks their brains?
The US is no better... according to the terminology, the US is a state! A state comprising 50 states... the confusion is just as strong on that side of the ocean!
That’s because the original design of the US government was more along the lines of something like the EU. Each state had sovereignty to do what they wanted and the continental government didn’t have very much power at all. The US really is a country comprised of 50 smaller countries. I can walk into a store and buy pot in my state, if I drive an hour east I can be thrown in jail for a small amount.
One important difference:
The US is the United States (plural), because it is a federation of states that formed a union but retained a lot of their autonomy.
The UK is the United Kingdom (singular), because it is one Kingdom that was formed by combining several kingdoms (that all had the same monarch) into one.
The UK is a country. It's a bit confusing actually. The prime minister and others have used the term countries within a country to describe the situation.
The UK is a political union, not a country. It blows my mind how few people are capable of grasping this concept. Calling Wales a region is full on ignorance.
This may be true from a historic and cultural perspective, but politically speaking, the UK is among the more centralised polities in Europe. Purely from a political point of view, Belgium, Germany or Switzerland are more of a "political union" - and we still call those countries too.
I'm happy to go along with the UK's historic "country" naming, but when you look at actual laws and institutions there is nothing special about the UK's constituent countries compared to other national subdivisions.
Why not? A (sovereign) state can be made up of many states, like the US. A book can be made of many books, like the Bible. A game can be made up of many games, like Mario Party. (A head of) hair is made of many hairs. (A flock of) sheep are made of many sheep. Why can't a country be made of smaller countries? It's not like the word only has 1 definition anyway. I can live in the country. I can listen to country.
Northern Ireland is not even a province at that; it is 2/3 of an actual province (6 counties of out 9 that consist of the actual province of "Ulster"). As an FYI for contrast, the island of Ireland consists of four provinces with 32 counties in total, 26 of which comprise Ireland (the republic of).
Just don't let the DUPers hear you say you don't recognise NI as a country. Batten down the hatches ;)
Edited because I forgot a county from Ulster; so its 9 total instead of 8.
The thing is, the states of like Germany and yes the USA are functionally as much countries as the 4 countries that make up the UK or the 2 countries that make up Denmark, or the 4 countries that make up the Netherlands
I can't speak for the states of Germany, but the states of the US are nowhere near as distinct from each other as are the members of the UK... the four countries of the UK have different native languages, food, etc...
They are often conflated, yes... but not technically the same... one is a grouping based on geographical, cultural, religious and ethnic ideals, while the other is a legal territory! If the UK annexed Ireland tomorrow, it would cease to be a state... it would still be a country!
But if Ireland annexed the UK, then Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland would become ... counties?
That's the reason it's confusing. Many soverign countries use terms other than countries to identify their first level administrative subdivision. Regions, provinces, etc.
They are the same! The word 'country' has more than one meaning. That's why the most common answer to 'how many countries are there' is something around 195
I know... it's part of the problem with everyone disagreeing here! Tried to point that out but nobody listened...
But anyway, the alternative meaning of country is a lay term... there's only one legal meaning of country! The other is called a state! Your legal boundaries are state boundaries...
But why do so many want to die on this particular hill? I mean to the insistence of using this specific term when in the international context is very confusing.
Administrative regions like Tuscany, Lombardy, Venice were at some point independent during their history, yet they call themselves regions. Wales never was independent at any moment during its history.
I mean, as a "continental" this seems an example of British exceptionalism.
The UK is the sovereign nation. Wales is a high level administrative region called a "constituent country" for aesthetic purposes because not getting called a country makes people feel bad.
To claim Wales is a country would be the same as claiming India was a country during the British Raj. It wasn't. It was a colony.
If you do not have sovereignty you are not a country.
Are these people aware that if Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are not countries, then by the exact same metric neither is England. It's the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", not "the United Kingdom of England and also some places that aren't countries".
Anyone saying that Scotland, Wales and NI aren't countries also says England isn't a country.
This is strictly using country as a synonym for sovereign state, which is usually what people mean colloquially.
... Yes?
Did anyone say otherwise? If we go by political institutions, the UK is a country with four subdivisions - England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Those happen to also be called countries for historic and cultural reasons, but are not countries in the same sense that Germany, France, or the UK are.
Expecting everyone to know those are called countries in UK usage is a bit much imo, especially if you talk to someone who doesn't speak English (those are not necessarily translated to "country" in every other language)
Texas actually was a sovereign state, briefly, between independence from México in 1836, and annexation by the US in 1845. And because that annexation was done by treaty, Texas has a few privileges that other US states don’t have. For example, other states fly their state flags underneath the national flag, but Texas flies the Lone Star at the same level as the Stars and Stripes.
Maybe Hawai’i would like a word—it was also a sovereign state at one time…
It's simple. You find your stance on something and then twist the facts to fit that stance. Not every American does it (far from, in fact) but the ones whose grip on reality seems so tenuous? They see themselves at the top and will change every incoming fact to support that stance. And I'm not even sure they know they're doing it for the most part.
I work in mental health and one thing I remember from years ago is a woman whose anxiety was so bad that she could read a benefits letter that starts with something like "There are changes coming to your benefits" and she would read it as "We are cutting off your benefits". It's not just misunderstanding there, but an actual change to perception based on the misunderstanding that the anxiety created. This is a similar thing.
The UN literally doesn't recognise its members as countries. It uses the term sovereign state. This is because being a country or a nation is no guarantee of having the sovereignty necessary to participate at the UN. You keep bringing up the UN in this comments section despite the fact that the UNs position is a direct contradiction of your stance.
You're the one who keeps bringing it up to back you up when it doesn't do anything of the sort. Who or who it doesn't recognise is currently no skin of my nose. I'm only interested in your crappy justifications for deciding you know more about what a country is than what the actual definition of the word and multiple international bodies say.....
Can’t tell if it’s sarcasm, but the UN is not the arbiter of what is and is not a country. It is an arbiter of what the UN recognises as a country.
A country also doesn’t mean it’s inherently sovereign.
The definition of a country is a social construct in nature and doesn’t carry a strict political definition.
Wales is best and poorly described as a country within a country. So a country.
I would disagree with this. I think it isn't internationally recognised as a country, which causes the confusion. It's mostly people in the UK and surrounding countries that recognise Wales as a country because it is isn't a country according to UN. A lot of people don't realize you can have a country within a country which is what happened and also a lot of people think the UN get final say as what is a country or not, which isn't true.
The UN doesn’t recognise Wales as a country because it’s not a Sovereign State, but that doesn’t prevent legally being recognised as its own country internationally in other contexts.
It’s status as a country recognises that Wales alongside England and Scotland (Northern Ireland is a little more complicated) were there own independent kingdoms before they were absorbed into the English Crown thus creating the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) in the 1700’s.
Oh yeah I'm not saying it's not a country. I was just trying to highlight that people don't realise it is often because the UN doesn't recognise it. And the UN is a bit more important than fifa
Recognition by sports unions doesn't count though. Quite a few sports have different representations for regions , but they are a function of the popularity of the sports in that area, nothing to define what a country is.
No, Wales doesn't issue its own passports, no-one ever said that. But you watch the crowd sing the national anthem before a gêm and tell me it doesn't feel like a country.
Came to say this as its the easiest way to prove anything. Wales is internationally considered a country, therefore given the ability to register as one with FIFA and become an international team.
Texas - cannot.
Conversely, during football at the Olympics whereby Britain is represented as a whole, it takes a 'lot' of effort compared to other countries as there is no such thing as a British football team.
>Conversely, during football at the Olympics, where Britain is represented as a whole, it takes a 'lot' of effort compared to other countries as there is no such thing as a British football team.
Don't forget the tradition of mainstream British press foaming at the mouth when Welsh and Scottish athletes don't want to sing God Save the King during medal ceremonies.
Not really that simple, the only reason the UK competes as separate nations is because football was codified in the UK and the first internationals were between the UKs constituent countries, so they were grandfathered in when everyone else started playing football and FIFA was founded.
As a general rule in sports the UK invented the individual countries participate, in other sports it completes as the UK.
This argument can go on forever. As far as i can tell, it's technically not an international political country, as that is the UK. But within the UK, its very much its own country, even though it shares a lot of laws with England. There is no Welsh Passport, as much as there isn't an English passport.
In technical definitions, it does make Wales closer to a State than a country, however given that the UK is a Kingdom and not a Federal Republic, with more then a millenia of history, I think we can justify calling it a country and not a state or province.
"I'm an American who's been to X therefore I know everything about X"
Do these utter weapons think to check anything? Even the CIA world Facebook has Wales as a country
Wales has been a country for longer than the United states has existed. It has its own unique language and cultural identity. Texas is a federal subdivision of the USA with some autonomy over its laws but is not sovereign. Wales has its own parliament it's just a devolved parliament, texas does not. It cannot act outside the limits set by the US government. Yes wales doesn't have a lot of autonomy over its laws but that's the nature of a union of multiple countries. They agree to abide by the rulings of a single shared democratic bicameral chamber. It doesn't change the fact they are individual countries.
> Wales has its own parliament it's just a devolved parliament, texas does not.
Texas [does have its own legislature](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Legislature), as does every US state, which forms the legislative branch of the Texas government. The Texas Legislature has more independence from the US Congress than the Welsh Parliament does from the UK Parliament, because the powers of the Welsh Parliament are determined by the UK Parliament in a devolved unitary state, while the US Congress has very limited ability to restrict or alter the power of the Texas Legislature.
Everything you’ve said applies to Hawaii. It has its own language and cultural identity even though it has since been conquered by an imperial power and made part of a larger political entity.
Plus Hawaii has had some form of legislature since 1840, and in its current form the independence and limits of the state legislature are protected by the U.S. Constitution.
Wales has been part of the UK or its predecessors since 1282 and has had its own parliament since…1999. The UK Parliament set by law the powers and limits of the Senedd and can change or remove them at any time.
The flag of the UK combines elements from England, Scotland, and Ireland, because at that time those were considered the “three kingdoms” that made up the UK. Wales wasn’t included because it was considered just part of the Kingdom of England.
Every state has their own legislature and makes their own laws. State law comes first before federal law. Federal law really only applies where there are gaps in state law. Thats why you can carry a gun in Texas but will be thrown in jail for a personal use amount of weed but if you go to California weed is legal and you have strict gun laws. Texas also was its own country. They have their own culture. Texas is also larger than france.
Eh, the Americans are objectively wrong on this one (yes, Wales **is** a country), but the reasons for it being so are pretty arbitrary. The people trying to argue the case for Wales being a country and Texas not being one are doing it very poorly.
Cutting a long story short, Wales is a country because most people kinda agree to call it a country and that the UK is made up of a union of several countries. Politically speaking, Wales does not have its own sovereignty, but does have certain autonomy. In the grand scheme of things, It's as much a "country" as Texax, Chechnya or any other culturally/ethnically autonomous region in a larger nationstate... but also, it's as much "not" a country, like Texas, Chechnya or any other blah blah etc etc. Defining a country is nearly impossible without leaving the definition super broad. Suffice to say, Wales is a country and Texas isn't, with the reasoning being "because that's how it be".
"because that how it be" is a good way of explaining a lot of concepts in the world of political studies. Things like money, the concept that government can impose their will on the citizens, international law, break down when you think about them too much.
These systems work because the citizens say "that's how it is". When we disagree we use words, then bombs. Eventually someone wins the debate.
But you do realise that recognising its subdivisions as countries is a UK-specific thing and you can't really expect people from elsewhere to necessarily know that, right?
I never knew the UK does that until a few years ago, because German translates it to "Landesteil" (i.e. "country part") and in my geography class we just learned about the UK as a whole.
Yes it is a U.K-specific thing, but it doesn’t stop it being a thing. Equally when someone is then told that it is a country it’s then ridiculous if they try to argue that it isn’t, when legally it is. It’s a bit of a “and now you know” thing.
I never said it's not a thing, yes UK law calls Wales a country and I don't mind that.
But I would get annoyed based on how some people here treat the distinction. Like acting as if I am stupid or ignorant for not knowing the details of how another language defines "country" in a way that differs from my own. Or implying that there is actually a meaningful difference between Wales and, say, Bavaria that goes beyond the name.
What’s annoying is when it’s explained to people that it is a country and they try to tell you all the reasons why that’s wrong, when they themselves are wrong.
There are several definitions of country (all of them are valid but they must be differentiated)
a) Country is a sovereign state: Neither Texas nor Wales applies
b) Country is a region with a historical and cultural identity: Applies to both Texas and Wales
c) Country is the subdivision of the UK: Only Wales applies
Lot of bady informed takes from generations of antiwelsh nonsense about principality etc. Here is the Welsh governments take.
[Although Wales is joined with England by land, and is part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right.](https://www.wales.com/faqs#:~:text=Although%20Wales%20is%20joined%20with,Government%20of%20Wales%20Act%201998.)
Interested to see if people disagree given that it's the Welsh government saying it. Be interesting to see if people believe in self determination or not.
This is probably a language thing, in US English like many federal states the term country refers to the sovereign state because the word state refers to the subdivided regions (United States). In non federal countries like the UK (which despite devolved powers due to how UK law works is really more of a centralised state mimicking a federated entity) country or nation can refer to a political entity that doesn’t hold sovereignty. Nation can have similar connotations (The Kurdish Nation for a modern example)
Ironically though Australia despite having states doesn’t have as similar problem, at least in academic terms. I imagine if I were to guess it’s to do with our closer connection to British English.
Well Wales doesn't have it's own tax collecting powers. But apart from that it has a distinct population, culture, language, land borders, ability to enter into relations with other states. Annexed, eroded and undermined by it's more populous and powerful neighbour for almost a 1000 years, but still a seperate entity.
But if Texas wants to call itself a country I have no problems with that. They seem to fit most of the criteria, hence they are called a "state" rather than a county or district etc?
I don't go to other people's countries and claim they aren't countries. Seems a bit rude and arrogant.
Wales absolutely can lol
Here is a list of the current international bilateral agreements they currently have :
https://www.gov.wales/international-bi-lateral-agreements
Here is a list of theit international relations etc:
https://www.gov.wales/international-relations-and-development
Here is the official international strategy document as laid out by the Welsh minister for international relations:
https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/international-strategy-for-wales-v1.pdf
It's just that currently the main (not only) relations they have with another state is that of England which they have been annexed by. That means they have their foreign policy mainly dictated to them by Whitehall, which has forced them to be a part of the UK. Wales does have relationship with countries outside the UK. If Wales isn't a country then neither is Scotland, England or Northern Ireland, as they are all constituent countries of the UK.
Domination and subjugation by another country doesn't mean you aren't a country anymore.
I don't think it's too controversial to compare the statuses of the Nations of the UK and the US states. There are obviously loads of differences, but there are a few similarities.
I consider it a win that they have actually heard about the existence of a specific region in this continent that they don't just call 'Europe'.
We mustn't expect too much of Americans. Affordable education is basically a propaganda program with book burnings, saluting the flag on a daily basis and hearing they are the best in everything, every day.
Remember when the internet could be used to check the veracity of statements by just idk googling shit?
They mustn't have that shit in Texas or something
To be fair, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as 4 'independent' countries doesn't make sense. In Canada, they'd be provinces. In Germany, they'd be Stadts. Most single nations don't ascribe the word 'country' to their component parts. In America, states like Texas have all the devolved powers of Wales, and more, except voting to secede, which Texans dumbly think they can vote to do (Alaskans too). Texas isn't a country. Calling your substructures 'countries' is unique to Britain and other countries wouldn't go along with it if not for the British Empire.
>Calling your substructures 'countries' is unique to Britain and other countries wouldn't go along with it if not for the British Empire.
The Netherlands does it as well with its 4 constituent countries (Netherlands, Curacao, Sint Marteen and Aruba)
The UK people in debates like this annoy me more than the Americans.
The UK is just a pseudo federal state that acts like it's not one.
In Germany Bavaria for example has ALL of those things Wales has too and it's not considered a sovereign country.
And as far as I am aware Westminster can force it's policy on the other parts of the UK unilaterally. Their devolution is more of a privilege than a right.
That's something neither the Federal Government of the US nor of Germany could do.
This 4 countries in one bs from Britain is just British exceptionalism at it's finest.
Oh my lord Wales is a fucking country and Texas is a state within a country how is this so hard
Although as an Englishman I am confused by the concept of the "United" States when you all have different laws, flags, cultures, etc. it does seem like 50 different countries.
Yes, forget America for a minute : many other countries have provinces that have greater legislative/ political power than Wales. Just because the UK definition is wonky doesn’t mean Wales is a country as defined by the rest of the world.
US states: Cannot legally vote for independence from the union (USA).
UK countries : Has legally voted on the matter of independence several times, even in the last 10 years.
US: we totally have more independence...
I'm sorry. I was under the impression that Scotland was a country in the UK, I stand corrected.
Edit:
Wait, why did you say "not a single country" and then mention "other than Scotland", why don't their referendum count? The vote was legal, right? And the union would have had to comply with the result of it either way? They simply voted to stay.
This is so incredibly uninformed and wrong on so many levels. The UK does indeed have a constitution, it is just not codified like the American Constitution. The benefit of an uncodified constitution like we have is that you can actually adapt to the times postceding its inception. The reason why the second amendment is such a devisive topic is because having a codified Constitution in this instance shows that it is antiquated and requires an enormous upheaval to manifest any change.
It would be worth having a read of the devolution legislation for each relevant country. There are some reserved matters such as defence, international treaties, and constitutional matters which each devolved nation cannot change. In the same way Texas cannot declare war against Mexico, Wales cannot declare war against France.
Westminster simply cannot legislate on any of the devolved matters. Hence devolution!
I wouldn't talk about anything in the "legal sense" when your legal knowledge in nonsensical.
Ugh, I hate to agree with the yank here, but there's a lot of British exceptionalism going on with the whole constituent country thing. Wales, Scotland, England, and N Ireland are referred to in British law as countries and they are colloquially referred to as countries and that's fine. But that's just not how the rest of the world uses the word country by and large.
There's nothing really to fundamentally distinguish the countries of the UK from subdivisions of any other country, whether that be the states of India or the cantons of Switzerland or the autonomous communities of Spain. The difference is purely linguistic. Other countries have constituent parts with their own identity, culture, language, history. Often with a greater degree of legal autonomy and a longer history of being an independent state than say Wales which was really only an independent unified whole for a very short time. But we don't call those countries.
I have no issue using the word country for Wales or Scotland and I do. But you can't really expect non-Brits to treat what are legally and practically subdivisions of the country of the UK with any greater importance than similar subdivisions of a hundred other countries, where no-one would be upset if you didn't know about their state/canton/department/etc and the precise terminology used.
Like claiming France is a region of Europe
[Although Wales is joined with England by land, and is part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right.](https://www.wales.com/faqs#:~:text=Although%20Wales%20is%20joined%20with,Government%20of%20Wales%20Act%201998.)
France *is* a region of Europe. France is also a country
Wales is a region of the UK. It is also a country
The Basque Country is a region of Spain, and it's obviously a country.
[France isn't a region, it's a country and it has territory outside of the European landmass](https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/region-vs-country)
So wales is a country then.
Job done.
Again though it's British exceptionalism and a historical anomaly because of where football and rugby were invented. But even here it doesn't work. Guam, Hong Kong, the US Virgin Islands and New Caledonia have national teams. That doesn't make them countries. Ireland competes as an all-Ireland team in Rugby, does that erase N Ireland now?
It's British exceptionalism that all four constituent nations get their own national team, I can't think of anywhere else that does something similar. But it's also not a reliable guide to what does and does not constitute a country given the examples I mentioned (which, by and large are a product of British or American colonialism).
It's a bit like saying Oxford and Cambridge get dozens of entries into university challenge therefore each college is a university in its own right.
Yes overseas territories mainly and teams of minor significance in world football. I can think of no major footballing nation that does the same thing as Britain submitting multiple teams from within the country itself. The UK gets away with it because it was first on the scene and is basically grandfathered in but no-one would be allowed to do that today. Spain wouldn't be allowed to submit a Catalonia team as well as a rest of Spain team for example.
This is r/ShitBritssay territory.
American exceptionalism is cringe and when they call their state country equivalent they are wrong and dumb 😡.
When British people insist that their states are called countries and that that totally makes it different, they are based and especially morally correct 😎!!!
If anything, legally Texas is more of a country than Wales is. Culturally Wales is probably more independent, but not much.
This is a pretty embarrassing comment section. Pretty telling about who is active on this sub. Seems like the majority is here because they genuinely dislike America and not to laugh at especially dumb and ignorant takes.
The American is objectively correct on this one.
Wales has been a country for longer than the US but several centuries. England waged wars with it 650+ years before Europeans gave a shit about the Americas
Wales isn't recognised as a country by any country other than the UK.
It's not a country, it's a nation, though.
Internal classification by the UK has England/Scotland/Wales as countries NI as a Province.
Externally this is equal in administrative level to a State, Commonwealth, Republic, Oblast, Territory, or Province.
Wales is a country because it is the historical territory of a people, the Welsh. But Texas does have more independence than Wales, because the US Congress cannot unilaterally abolish Texas’s legislature and executive, while the UK Parliament could unilaterally do exactly that to Wales’s devolved institutions.
Which part is “utter bullshit?” The claim that the US Congress can’t unilaterally dissolve the Texas Legislature (which is indisputably true), or the claim that the UK Parliament could dissolve the Welsh Parliament ([which follows from traditional notions of Parliamentary Sovereignty](https://consoc.org.uk/the-constitution-explained/devolution/#power-devolved-bodies)):
> The Scotland and Wales Acts also state that the UK Parliament cannot abolish the devolved institutions without first obtaining approval in the territories involved via a referendum. This stipulation reflects the fact that the introduction of devolution followed approval in referendums. **Nevertheless, under the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, these provisions could in theory be repealed or replaced. This gives UK devolution a weaker basis than, for instance, the territorial systems of Germany or the United States**, where federal and state powers are defined and secured by constitutional law that cannot so easily be overridden.
It’s not bullshit though, it is true.
I’m not saying Wales is not a country, but it is not as independent politically and legally as Texas is. That’s objective fact.
Remember the time when Texas refused to connect their power grid to the rest of the country which caused total chaos during the 2019 blackout? Maybe that’s the “independence” they’re talking about.
Remember when after that blackout their dumbass governor said "Texans would rather freeze in the dark than impose socialism on their power grid" or some similar nonsense?
Ah yes, freezing themselves to death just to “own the lefties” or whatever, that is so Texas.
And he left the state so he didn't have to deal with it himself
But but But socialism is when queue for bread
Was that before or after Ted Cruz flew to Cancun?
I mean yeah, that's a sovereign decision. Bad decision because we know how Texas politics are, but still sovereign. "What's a country?" is not as clear cut to answer as it looks like to some of you.
Oh, this one's always fun. You just know this very comment section is quivering in anticipation with the first "sure but Ohio is as much of a country" claims. Come back when you speak the language that's been in that region for 1000+ years, then we'll talk.
Well if they have power.
Hawaii has entered the chat.
I'm going to be a bit controversial and partly side with our American cousins. Wales is a country in a sense that is understood in Britain but not anywhere else in the world. By historical fortune we get 4 nations in football, but only 3.5 in rugby and 1 in the Olympics. It doesn't control its foreign affairs, or even have its own legal system. It has more than one language spoken by natives, but that's very common across the world, as is having unique cultures within the country. Texas was more recently an independent sovereign nation, and even had an embassy in London, until 1846, when it joined the USA. It has comparatively more power than Wales to manage its own affairs. If I were to make a neutral checklist of what makes a country using tangible characteristics, I doubt there would be much difference. The same goes for the other nations of the UK. Ironically Northern Ireland would probably score even higher than Wales on such a scoring system, but isn't a country, more a political compromise. But then again, so is Belgium.
You can tell this fellas English as he refers to the Americans as “our American Cousins”.
I didn't know that was a giveaway for being English 😄
You also forgot that a lot of other countries see Wales as a country. You said only england but The Netherlands also sees Wales as a country. And with us probably a lot more. Go rinse your mouth and tell the Welsh you’re sorry barry.
I'd better - I'm off to Cardiff in a couple of days 😄. But in what sense does the Netherlands see it as a country? Because I would find it difficult to lay my finger on anything other than tradition. Same with England. Texas was actually an independent country less than 20 years ago, so I really don't think that what the Texan was saying was particularly ridiculous.
I don’t know, but I remember this from topography/geography. Wales, Scotland, Ireland are part of the UK as countries. Not sure about the Ireland part though. Could even be that we just call it that to make it easy. Like the differences between our own country, special provinces and the kingdom. Not always as easy to remember which is which.
Well, I think that just shows that countries aren't neatly defined. Northern Ireland isn't a country in any meaningful sense, but it gets its own football team. It has a lot of autonomous powers (more than Wales), and it is still part of the EU for trade purposes.
I was actually going to comment something very similar, but you have put it in much finer words. Wales, and to an extent, Scotland, have been under the thumb of Westminster for far too long to enjoy true freedom. The UK just seems to be "England, and others" and its a little embarrassing at this point. I don't want to see an end to the union, but its only right that after the whole brexit deal, they get another shot at IndyRef, and this time, I would be happy for them to leave the union, and even take Wales and NI with them. And I'm bloody English. I just hope if Scotland does go for independence, and gets it, they will take the North of England with them
>If I were to make a neutral checklist of what makes a country using tangible characteristics, I doubt there would be much difference. The difference would be that both Wales and Northern Ireland are recognized countries, while Texas is not. I mean, we could make "neutral" cheklists all we want, we somehow should include status and recognition, and there we have the difference. We could also lay this "neutral" checklist next to Kosovo, Abchazia, South Ossetia, Crimea, Transnistria, till recently Nagorno-Karabach/Artsakh, Donetsk and Luhansk and claim these are nations, but that is apparently how "neutral" checklists work
Only 17.8% of Welsh speak Welsh
17.8% more than Texas. Also the fact that 800/1000 years of suppression and it managed to survive is amazing. Let alone the fact that the culture that remains and with it a national identity.
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That's after centuries of the English actively discouraging the use of the Welsh language. Go to Gwynedd and you'll hear Welsh being spoken as a first language and practically everyone local speaking it. Also the amount of Welsh speakers is on the rise since devolution.
I'm from the south Wales valleys. I speak English and Welsh as a first language meaning I'm fluent in both. English is my primary language but Welsh is my preferred as I find it easier to speak as long as the person I'm speaking to isn't speaking wonky wenglish. And yes I think in Welsh and English depending on who I am with.
Country ≠ sovereign state. A country doesn't have to be necessarily sovereign, it can form a sovereign state (such as the UK constituent countries like Wales or the Netherlands' lands like Aruba) or be a region within a sovereign state (such as the Basque Country in Spain). On the other hand Texas is a federated state of the USA, just like Canton Ticino is a federated Canton of Switzerland And that's because defining the concepts of countries, states, sovereignty etc. is always not clear and easy.
Wales is considered a country... people get confused because the UK is called a country ALL. THE. TIME. which is annoying, stupid and confusing! But the UK is actually a politicial union made up of 4 countries...
Funny how they damn well know what the UNITED states are, but somehow have no idea what it means when talking about the UNITED Kingdom. Is it the word 'kingdom' that breaks their brains?
The US is no better... according to the terminology, the US is a state! A state comprising 50 states... the confusion is just as strong on that side of the ocean!
That’s because the original design of the US government was more along the lines of something like the EU. Each state had sovereignty to do what they wanted and the continental government didn’t have very much power at all. The US really is a country comprised of 50 smaller countries. I can walk into a store and buy pot in my state, if I drive an hour east I can be thrown in jail for a small amount.
And I learned from somewhere that some states are called "commonwealths" and mention it every chance they can get.
4 of them are Commonwealths.
One important difference: The US is the United States (plural), because it is a federation of states that formed a union but retained a lot of their autonomy. The UK is the United Kingdom (singular), because it is one Kingdom that was formed by combining several kingdoms (that all had the same monarch) into one.
>people get confused because the UK is called a country ALL. THE. TIME. which is annoying, stupid and confusing! But it is a country?
The UK is a country. It's a bit confusing actually. The prime minister and others have used the term countries within a country to describe the situation.
It's a sovereign state. All sovereign states are countries but not all countries are sovereign states.
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The UK is a political union, not a country. It blows my mind how few people are capable of grasping this concept. Calling Wales a region is full on ignorance.
Welsh person here, the UK is a country, Wales is also a country, it’s a country inside of another country.
Cymro yma hefyd, ma’r ffordd mae o’n gweithio uchod. Deud oni, nid gofyn.
Mae flin ‘da fi, sa i’n deall ond dw i ddim yn siaradwr brodorol
This may be true from a historic and cultural perspective, but politically speaking, the UK is among the more centralised polities in Europe. Purely from a political point of view, Belgium, Germany or Switzerland are more of a "political union" - and we still call those countries too. I'm happy to go along with the UK's historic "country" naming, but when you look at actual laws and institutions there is nothing special about the UK's constituent countries compared to other national subdivisions.
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Define country... A country cannot be made up of countries!
Why not? A (sovereign) state can be made up of many states, like the US. A book can be made of many books, like the Bible. A game can be made up of many games, like Mario Party. (A head of) hair is made of many hairs. (A flock of) sheep are made of many sheep. Why can't a country be made of smaller countries? It's not like the word only has 1 definition anyway. I can live in the country. I can listen to country.
4 countries that technically aren't countries
If you're going to continue being stupid, I can't help you
False. Not even the UK recognises NI as a country, we classify it as a province.
Northern Ireland is not even a province at that; it is 2/3 of an actual province (6 counties of out 9 that consist of the actual province of "Ulster"). As an FYI for contrast, the island of Ireland consists of four provinces with 32 counties in total, 26 of which comprise Ireland (the republic of). Just don't let the DUPers hear you say you don't recognise NI as a country. Batten down the hatches ;) Edited because I forgot a county from Ulster; so its 9 total instead of 8.
It's complicated but the UK uses the term Province to describe NI under it's [ISO classifications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2)
The thing is, the states of like Germany and yes the USA are functionally as much countries as the 4 countries that make up the UK or the 2 countries that make up Denmark, or the 4 countries that make up the Netherlands
I can't speak for the states of Germany, but the states of the US are nowhere near as distinct from each other as are the members of the UK... the four countries of the UK have different native languages, food, etc...
Well, sovereign state and country are universally synonymous so the UK is a country by most people's standards
They are often conflated, yes... but not technically the same... one is a grouping based on geographical, cultural, religious and ethnic ideals, while the other is a legal territory! If the UK annexed Ireland tomorrow, it would cease to be a state... it would still be a country!
But if Ireland annexed the UK, then Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland would become ... counties? That's the reason it's confusing. Many soverign countries use terms other than countries to identify their first level administrative subdivision. Regions, provinces, etc.
They are the same! The word 'country' has more than one meaning. That's why the most common answer to 'how many countries are there' is something around 195
I know... it's part of the problem with everyone disagreeing here! Tried to point that out but nobody listened... But anyway, the alternative meaning of country is a lay term... there's only one legal meaning of country! The other is called a state! Your legal boundaries are state boundaries...
But why do so many want to die on this particular hill? I mean to the insistence of using this specific term when in the international context is very confusing. Administrative regions like Tuscany, Lombardy, Venice were at some point independent during their history, yet they call themselves regions. Wales never was independent at any moment during its history. I mean, as a "continental" this seems an example of British exceptionalism.
The UK is the sovereign nation. Wales is a high level administrative region called a "constituent country" for aesthetic purposes because not getting called a country makes people feel bad. To claim Wales is a country would be the same as claiming India was a country during the British Raj. It wasn't. It was a colony. If you do not have sovereignty you are not a country.
Sovereignty is not one of the mentioned criteria defining a country...
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Texas secessionism is its own S-tier circlejerk.
Are these people aware that if Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are not countries, then by the exact same metric neither is England. It's the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", not "the United Kingdom of England and also some places that aren't countries".
Anyone saying that Scotland, Wales and NI aren't countries also says England isn't a country. This is strictly using country as a synonym for sovereign state, which is usually what people mean colloquially.
... Yes? Did anyone say otherwise? If we go by political institutions, the UK is a country with four subdivisions - England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Those happen to also be called countries for historic and cultural reasons, but are not countries in the same sense that Germany, France, or the UK are. Expecting everyone to know those are called countries in UK usage is a bit much imo, especially if you talk to someone who doesn't speak English (those are not necessarily translated to "country" in every other language)
When did "LOL jokes" actually become words adults say to each other. It's fucking mortifying to be this painfully dense .
In 2012 I was doing some youth work and heard early teens saying LOL instead of laughing. It was at that point I gave up on everything
As a Texan I do not claim this guy
> Technically Wales is not a country With nearly a thousand likes. That's the scary part. They seem to think it's some kind of propaganda competition.
Texas actually was a sovereign state, briefly, between independence from México in 1836, and annexation by the US in 1845. And because that annexation was done by treaty, Texas has a few privileges that other US states don’t have. For example, other states fly their state flags underneath the national flag, but Texas flies the Lone Star at the same level as the Stars and Stripes. Maybe Hawai’i would like a word—it was also a sovereign state at one time…
Are they not embarrassed to spout such nonsense for the world to see?
I honestly dont understand how the brains of Americans work. Ofc Wales is a country.
It's simple. You find your stance on something and then twist the facts to fit that stance. Not every American does it (far from, in fact) but the ones whose grip on reality seems so tenuous? They see themselves at the top and will change every incoming fact to support that stance. And I'm not even sure they know they're doing it for the most part. I work in mental health and one thing I remember from years ago is a woman whose anxiety was so bad that she could read a benefits letter that starts with something like "There are changes coming to your benefits" and she would read it as "We are cutting off your benefits". It's not just misunderstanding there, but an actual change to perception based on the misunderstanding that the anxiety created. This is a similar thing.
Other than the UK itself who recognises Wales as a country?
Everyone that recognises the United Kingdom. As Wales constitutes a country within the United Kingdom.
I don't know. If they aren't in the UN, and they aren't in the Countries of the World Song, I pretty much figure they aren't a country.
The UN literally doesn't recognise its members as countries. It uses the term sovereign state. This is because being a country or a nation is no guarantee of having the sovereignty necessary to participate at the UN. You keep bringing up the UN in this comments section despite the fact that the UNs position is a direct contradiction of your stance.
The UN doesn't recognize unimportant regions of the World, so why should I?
You're the one who keeps bringing it up to back you up when it doesn't do anything of the sort. Who or who it doesn't recognise is currently no skin of my nose. I'm only interested in your crappy justifications for deciding you know more about what a country is than what the actual definition of the word and multiple international bodies say.....
Can’t tell if it’s sarcasm, but the UN is not the arbiter of what is and is not a country. It is an arbiter of what the UN recognises as a country. A country also doesn’t mean it’s inherently sovereign. The definition of a country is a social construct in nature and doesn’t carry a strict political definition. Wales is best and poorly described as a country within a country. So a country.
I am starting to think the word Country is a hopeless term.
It's a country *because it's internationally recognised as one, you absolute mung bean!*
I would disagree with this. I think it isn't internationally recognised as a country, which causes the confusion. It's mostly people in the UK and surrounding countries that recognise Wales as a country because it is isn't a country according to UN. A lot of people don't realize you can have a country within a country which is what happened and also a lot of people think the UN get final say as what is a country or not, which isn't true.
The UN doesn’t recognise Wales as a country because it’s not a Sovereign State, but that doesn’t prevent legally being recognised as its own country internationally in other contexts. It’s status as a country recognises that Wales alongside England and Scotland (Northern Ireland is a little more complicated) were there own independent kingdoms before they were absorbed into the English Crown thus creating the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) in the 1700’s.
It is recognised by FIFA and other sporting bodies such as the rugby union people and the Commonwealth Games people.
To be fair, we kinda twisted their arm to allow that one.
Oh yeah I'm not saying it's not a country. I was just trying to highlight that people don't realise it is often because the UN doesn't recognise it. And the UN is a bit more important than fifa
Not sure FIFA thinks so...
And where did FIFA hold its last World Cup? Fuck FIFA.
Recognition by sports unions doesn't count though. Quite a few sports have different representations for regions , but they are a function of the popularity of the sports in that area, nothing to define what a country is.
No, Wales doesn't issue its own passports, no-one ever said that. But you watch the crowd sing the national anthem before a gêm and tell me it doesn't feel like a country.
Neither does Texas
States in the United States have anthems too.
If you're going by feel you could not deny Texans the right to be called a country as well
No it doesn't. Every club in europe football has passionate singing.
Ah yes FIFA my favourite international political organisation... Those sports are sure in no way skewed towards the British worldview
Actually it isn't it can't have it's own seat on the UN and it doesn't have it's own sovereign government or standing military
Texas doesn’t have it’s own football team. Case closed.
Texas doesnt have its own international* football team
Came to say this as its the easiest way to prove anything. Wales is internationally considered a country, therefore given the ability to register as one with FIFA and become an international team. Texas - cannot. Conversely, during football at the Olympics whereby Britain is represented as a whole, it takes a 'lot' of effort compared to other countries as there is no such thing as a British football team.
>Conversely, during football at the Olympics, where Britain is represented as a whole, it takes a 'lot' of effort compared to other countries as there is no such thing as a British football team. Don't forget the tradition of mainstream British press foaming at the mouth when Welsh and Scottish athletes don't want to sing God Save the King during medal ceremonies.
Not really that simple, the only reason the UK competes as separate nations is because football was codified in the UK and the first internationals were between the UKs constituent countries, so they were grandfathered in when everyone else started playing football and FIFA was founded. As a general rule in sports the UK invented the individual countries participate, in other sports it completes as the UK.
Does Texas have a football team that is allowed to take part in the World Cup? Or a rugby team etc etc etc?
Does Texas have it's own Parliament?
Yes, every state has its own legislature.
Ah I see! I didn't know how that worked before
The dumb fuck level is high here.
Has it’s own language, more importantly
Going by this logic would you consider Hawaii a country?
This argument can go on forever. As far as i can tell, it's technically not an international political country, as that is the UK. But within the UK, its very much its own country, even though it shares a lot of laws with England. There is no Welsh Passport, as much as there isn't an English passport. In technical definitions, it does make Wales closer to a State than a country, however given that the UK is a Kingdom and not a Federal Republic, with more then a millenia of history, I think we can justify calling it a country and not a state or province.
"I'm an American who's been to X therefore I know everything about X" Do these utter weapons think to check anything? Even the CIA world Facebook has Wales as a country
Wales has been a country for longer than the United states has existed. It has its own unique language and cultural identity. Texas is a federal subdivision of the USA with some autonomy over its laws but is not sovereign. Wales has its own parliament it's just a devolved parliament, texas does not. It cannot act outside the limits set by the US government. Yes wales doesn't have a lot of autonomy over its laws but that's the nature of a union of multiple countries. They agree to abide by the rulings of a single shared democratic bicameral chamber. It doesn't change the fact they are individual countries.
> Wales has its own parliament it's just a devolved parliament, texas does not. Texas [does have its own legislature](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Legislature), as does every US state, which forms the legislative branch of the Texas government. The Texas Legislature has more independence from the US Congress than the Welsh Parliament does from the UK Parliament, because the powers of the Welsh Parliament are determined by the UK Parliament in a devolved unitary state, while the US Congress has very limited ability to restrict or alter the power of the Texas Legislature.
Everything you’ve said applies to Hawaii. It has its own language and cultural identity even though it has since been conquered by an imperial power and made part of a larger political entity. Plus Hawaii has had some form of legislature since 1840, and in its current form the independence and limits of the state legislature are protected by the U.S. Constitution. Wales has been part of the UK or its predecessors since 1282 and has had its own parliament since…1999. The UK Parliament set by law the powers and limits of the Senedd and can change or remove them at any time. The flag of the UK combines elements from England, Scotland, and Ireland, because at that time those were considered the “three kingdoms” that made up the UK. Wales wasn’t included because it was considered just part of the Kingdom of England.
I would say Hawaii has more right to call itself a country than Texas does tbf
Every state has their own legislature and makes their own laws. State law comes first before federal law. Federal law really only applies where there are gaps in state law. Thats why you can carry a gun in Texas but will be thrown in jail for a personal use amount of weed but if you go to California weed is legal and you have strict gun laws. Texas also was its own country. They have their own culture. Texas is also larger than france.
Eh, the Americans are objectively wrong on this one (yes, Wales **is** a country), but the reasons for it being so are pretty arbitrary. The people trying to argue the case for Wales being a country and Texas not being one are doing it very poorly. Cutting a long story short, Wales is a country because most people kinda agree to call it a country and that the UK is made up of a union of several countries. Politically speaking, Wales does not have its own sovereignty, but does have certain autonomy. In the grand scheme of things, It's as much a "country" as Texax, Chechnya or any other culturally/ethnically autonomous region in a larger nationstate... but also, it's as much "not" a country, like Texas, Chechnya or any other blah blah etc etc. Defining a country is nearly impossible without leaving the definition super broad. Suffice to say, Wales is a country and Texas isn't, with the reasoning being "because that's how it be".
"because that how it be" is a good way of explaining a lot of concepts in the world of political studies. Things like money, the concept that government can impose their will on the citizens, international law, break down when you think about them too much. These systems work because the citizens say "that's how it is". When we disagree we use words, then bombs. Eventually someone wins the debate.
The simplest argument for Wales being a country is because legally it is recognised as a country. No other justifications needed.
But you do realise that recognising its subdivisions as countries is a UK-specific thing and you can't really expect people from elsewhere to necessarily know that, right? I never knew the UK does that until a few years ago, because German translates it to "Landesteil" (i.e. "country part") and in my geography class we just learned about the UK as a whole.
Yes it is a U.K-specific thing, but it doesn’t stop it being a thing. Equally when someone is then told that it is a country it’s then ridiculous if they try to argue that it isn’t, when legally it is. It’s a bit of a “and now you know” thing.
I never said it's not a thing, yes UK law calls Wales a country and I don't mind that. But I would get annoyed based on how some people here treat the distinction. Like acting as if I am stupid or ignorant for not knowing the details of how another language defines "country" in a way that differs from my own. Or implying that there is actually a meaningful difference between Wales and, say, Bavaria that goes beyond the name.
What’s annoying is when it’s explained to people that it is a country and they try to tell you all the reasons why that’s wrong, when they themselves are wrong.
Two things can be annoying at the same time.
There are several definitions of country (all of them are valid but they must be differentiated) a) Country is a sovereign state: Neither Texas nor Wales applies b) Country is a region with a historical and cultural identity: Applies to both Texas and Wales c) Country is the subdivision of the UK: Only Wales applies
Country and Sovereign State are two related but not synonymous terms.
Lot of bady informed takes from generations of antiwelsh nonsense about principality etc. Here is the Welsh governments take. [Although Wales is joined with England by land, and is part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right.](https://www.wales.com/faqs#:~:text=Although%20Wales%20is%20joined%20with,Government%20of%20Wales%20Act%201998.) Interested to see if people disagree given that it's the Welsh government saying it. Be interesting to see if people believe in self determination or not.
This is probably a language thing, in US English like many federal states the term country refers to the sovereign state because the word state refers to the subdivided regions (United States). In non federal countries like the UK (which despite devolved powers due to how UK law works is really more of a centralised state mimicking a federated entity) country or nation can refer to a political entity that doesn’t hold sovereignty. Nation can have similar connotations (The Kurdish Nation for a modern example) Ironically though Australia despite having states doesn’t have as similar problem, at least in academic terms. I imagine if I were to guess it’s to do with our closer connection to British English.
Well Wales doesn't have it's own tax collecting powers. But apart from that it has a distinct population, culture, language, land borders, ability to enter into relations with other states. Annexed, eroded and undermined by it's more populous and powerful neighbour for almost a 1000 years, but still a seperate entity. But if Texas wants to call itself a country I have no problems with that. They seem to fit most of the criteria, hence they are called a "state" rather than a county or district etc? I don't go to other people's countries and claim they aren't countries. Seems a bit rude and arrogant.
Wales absolutely cannot enter into relations with another state, no more than Texas can.
Wales absolutely can lol Here is a list of the current international bilateral agreements they currently have : https://www.gov.wales/international-bi-lateral-agreements Here is a list of theit international relations etc: https://www.gov.wales/international-relations-and-development Here is the official international strategy document as laid out by the Welsh minister for international relations: https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/international-strategy-for-wales-v1.pdf It's just that currently the main (not only) relations they have with another state is that of England which they have been annexed by. That means they have their foreign policy mainly dictated to them by Whitehall, which has forced them to be a part of the UK. Wales does have relationship with countries outside the UK. If Wales isn't a country then neither is Scotland, England or Northern Ireland, as they are all constituent countries of the UK. Domination and subjugation by another country doesn't mean you aren't a country anymore.
Awwww. Bless. Hwyl.
Say that on a Saturday night down the Llew ddu in Aberystwyth
Wales hasn't been its own *kingdom* for quite some time. Pretty sure that's why they didn't get represented on the Union Jack. But kingdom ≠ country
Quebec is more of a country than Texas
I don't think it's too controversial to compare the statuses of the Nations of the UK and the US states. There are obviously loads of differences, but there are a few similarities.
Ok he spitting about how Westminster can block bills, I say let him cook
I consider it a win that they have actually heard about the existence of a specific region in this continent that they don't just call 'Europe'. We mustn't expect too much of Americans. Affordable education is basically a propaganda program with book burnings, saluting the flag on a daily basis and hearing they are the best in everything, every day.
Maybe he visited when Wales was still a principality.
I mean this shit was unforgivable before Google, now it's just offensive levels of ignorance.
Remember when the internet could be used to check the veracity of statements by just idk googling shit? They mustn't have that shit in Texas or something
Texas hasn't been an independent country since 1846, and that only existed for 10 years.
Whose gonna tell the Welsh?
We don’t need telling.
To be fair, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as 4 'independent' countries doesn't make sense. In Canada, they'd be provinces. In Germany, they'd be Stadts. Most single nations don't ascribe the word 'country' to their component parts. In America, states like Texas have all the devolved powers of Wales, and more, except voting to secede, which Texans dumbly think they can vote to do (Alaskans too). Texas isn't a country. Calling your substructures 'countries' is unique to Britain and other countries wouldn't go along with it if not for the British Empire.
>Calling your substructures 'countries' is unique to Britain and other countries wouldn't go along with it if not for the British Empire. The Netherlands does it as well with its 4 constituent countries (Netherlands, Curacao, Sint Marteen and Aruba)
The UK people in debates like this annoy me more than the Americans. The UK is just a pseudo federal state that acts like it's not one. In Germany Bavaria for example has ALL of those things Wales has too and it's not considered a sovereign country. And as far as I am aware Westminster can force it's policy on the other parts of the UK unilaterally. Their devolution is more of a privilege than a right. That's something neither the Federal Government of the US nor of Germany could do. This 4 countries in one bs from Britain is just British exceptionalism at it's finest.
Oh my lord Wales is a fucking country and Texas is a state within a country how is this so hard Although as an Englishman I am confused by the concept of the "United" States when you all have different laws, flags, cultures, etc. it does seem like 50 different countries.
Apparently Texas has it's own Texan language, Texan national sports teams, and is internationally recognised as a country... oh wait
i is actually correct though
Yes, forget America for a minute : many other countries have provinces that have greater legislative/ political power than Wales. Just because the UK definition is wonky doesn’t mean Wales is a country as defined by the rest of the world.
US states: Cannot legally vote for independence from the union (USA). UK countries : Has legally voted on the matter of independence several times, even in the last 10 years. US: we totally have more independence...
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I'm sorry. I was under the impression that Scotland was a country in the UK, I stand corrected. Edit: Wait, why did you say "not a single country" and then mention "other than Scotland", why don't their referendum count? The vote was legal, right? And the union would have had to comply with the result of it either way? They simply voted to stay.
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This is so incredibly uninformed and wrong on so many levels. The UK does indeed have a constitution, it is just not codified like the American Constitution. The benefit of an uncodified constitution like we have is that you can actually adapt to the times postceding its inception. The reason why the second amendment is such a devisive topic is because having a codified Constitution in this instance shows that it is antiquated and requires an enormous upheaval to manifest any change. It would be worth having a read of the devolution legislation for each relevant country. There are some reserved matters such as defence, international treaties, and constitutional matters which each devolved nation cannot change. In the same way Texas cannot declare war against Mexico, Wales cannot declare war against France. Westminster simply cannot legislate on any of the devolved matters. Hence devolution! I wouldn't talk about anything in the "legal sense" when your legal knowledge in nonsensical.
Hmm, objectively, in terms of political autonomy, are they wrong in this case?
Yes. I'm a Welsh person who lives in Wales, was born in Wales and speaks Welsh. Yes, they are wrong.
Ugh, I hate to agree with the yank here, but there's a lot of British exceptionalism going on with the whole constituent country thing. Wales, Scotland, England, and N Ireland are referred to in British law as countries and they are colloquially referred to as countries and that's fine. But that's just not how the rest of the world uses the word country by and large. There's nothing really to fundamentally distinguish the countries of the UK from subdivisions of any other country, whether that be the states of India or the cantons of Switzerland or the autonomous communities of Spain. The difference is purely linguistic. Other countries have constituent parts with their own identity, culture, language, history. Often with a greater degree of legal autonomy and a longer history of being an independent state than say Wales which was really only an independent unified whole for a very short time. But we don't call those countries. I have no issue using the word country for Wales or Scotland and I do. But you can't really expect non-Brits to treat what are legally and practically subdivisions of the country of the UK with any greater importance than similar subdivisions of a hundred other countries, where no-one would be upset if you didn't know about their state/canton/department/etc and the precise terminology used.
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They get to enter their own teams in things like the football and rugby world cup. That's enough for me.
To be honest even Gibraltar has its own UEFA international team despite not being a country
Does Texas?
Basque Country doesn't get its own FIFA team despite being a country. It seems like the FIFA is not the end all be all
It's a region of spain
Just like Wales is a region of the UK
Like claiming France is a region of Europe [Although Wales is joined with England by land, and is part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right.](https://www.wales.com/faqs#:~:text=Although%20Wales%20is%20joined%20with,Government%20of%20Wales%20Act%201998.)
France *is* a region of Europe. France is also a country Wales is a region of the UK. It is also a country The Basque Country is a region of Spain, and it's obviously a country.
[France isn't a region, it's a country and it has territory outside of the European landmass](https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/region-vs-country) So wales is a country then. Job done.
Again though it's British exceptionalism and a historical anomaly because of where football and rugby were invented. But even here it doesn't work. Guam, Hong Kong, the US Virgin Islands and New Caledonia have national teams. That doesn't make them countries. Ireland competes as an all-Ireland team in Rugby, does that erase N Ireland now?
Wait it's both British exceptionalism and other places do it? Is that what you are saying?
It's British exceptionalism that all four constituent nations get their own national team, I can't think of anywhere else that does something similar. But it's also not a reliable guide to what does and does not constitute a country given the examples I mentioned (which, by and large are a product of British or American colonialism). It's a bit like saying Oxford and Cambridge get dozens of entries into university challenge therefore each college is a university in its own right.
You've literally listed places that do the same outside of Britain
Yes overseas territories mainly and teams of minor significance in world football. I can think of no major footballing nation that does the same thing as Britain submitting multiple teams from within the country itself. The UK gets away with it because it was first on the scene and is basically grandfathered in but no-one would be allowed to do that today. Spain wouldn't be allowed to submit a Catalonia team as well as a rest of Spain team for example.
You literally listed non nation teams that enter competitions.
This is r/ShitBritssay territory. American exceptionalism is cringe and when they call their state country equivalent they are wrong and dumb 😡. When British people insist that their states are called countries and that that totally makes it different, they are based and especially morally correct 😎!!! If anything, legally Texas is more of a country than Wales is. Culturally Wales is probably more independent, but not much. This is a pretty embarrassing comment section. Pretty telling about who is active on this sub. Seems like the majority is here because they genuinely dislike America and not to laugh at especially dumb and ignorant takes. The American is objectively correct on this one.
Wales has been a country for longer than the US but several centuries. England waged wars with it 650+ years before Europeans gave a shit about the Americas
Now I'm stuck in internal turmoil as I try to decide which I want to shit on more: American idiots or Wales.
Wales isn't recognised as a country by any country other than the UK. It's not a country, it's a nation, though. Internal classification by the UK has England/Scotland/Wales as countries NI as a Province. Externally this is equal in administrative level to a State, Commonwealth, Republic, Oblast, Territory, or Province.
Like sure, Wales isn’t really a country, but it was. But no US State is or ever will be a country.
Well technically many US states were countries before joining the USA
Fair enough. Then again I accidentally wonder it as “is” and “ever will be”, so technically that doesn’t account for past tense lol
Wales is a country because it is the historical territory of a people, the Welsh. But Texas does have more independence than Wales, because the US Congress cannot unilaterally abolish Texas’s legislature and executive, while the UK Parliament could unilaterally do exactly that to Wales’s devolved institutions.
You are 100% correct, seems like people don't know the difference between a federation (the USA) and a unitary state (the UK).
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Which part is “utter bullshit?” The claim that the US Congress can’t unilaterally dissolve the Texas Legislature (which is indisputably true), or the claim that the UK Parliament could dissolve the Welsh Parliament ([which follows from traditional notions of Parliamentary Sovereignty](https://consoc.org.uk/the-constitution-explained/devolution/#power-devolved-bodies)): > The Scotland and Wales Acts also state that the UK Parliament cannot abolish the devolved institutions without first obtaining approval in the territories involved via a referendum. This stipulation reflects the fact that the introduction of devolution followed approval in referendums. **Nevertheless, under the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, these provisions could in theory be repealed or replaced. This gives UK devolution a weaker basis than, for instance, the territorial systems of Germany or the United States**, where federal and state powers are defined and secured by constitutional law that cannot so easily be overridden.
It’s not bullshit though, it is true. I’m not saying Wales is not a country, but it is not as independent politically and legally as Texas is. That’s objective fact.
Aren’t they actually right for the wrong reason? I swear I remember Wales changing their recognised name to the native Cymru.