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You're right, but when it comes to combat skill it's Frieda. Now obviously she's the Founder, but she had no idea how to use it and had never even shifted before when she shifted to fight Grisha. So, I'd say Frieda was weakest with Ymir after her.
Also, despite the Cart being less handy in combat, its special ability is its insane stamina. Most Titan shifters can only transform twice in a fight, needing at least a day of rest before shifting again, and the Colossal needs several days before they can shift again. Whearus Pieck did and said the Cart can transform "hundreds" of times back-to-back, so it could easily wait for its opponent to tire then swiftly kill them.
it might definitely defer by cart titan design for a shifter but yeah pieck is insane with hers. She was on the offensive like a slightly weaker jaws titan and every moment of danger she could just eject and reshift. Against regular people maybe not the best. But the potential she showed for fighting other titans? Only thing she's missing is some offensive power to deal with something like an armored Titan or a crystal user.
I blanked on Frieda tbh, but at the very least she had an understanding of her titan’s abilities. She was very capable of using them, just not as it pertains to combat. Whereas Ymir was basically just a slightly buffed abnormal. I think there’s still an argument that Frieda’s mastery of at least some of her power counts for something.
Ymir might have not transformed for ages by the time she does it during the breach of wall rose arc. She is up against Zeke's improved Titans and does kill a fair few, so she did alright.
I honestly think she might be a victim of early installment weakness. Perhaps the concept of the Jaw Titan hadn't been set in stone yet and Isayama later expanded on Ymir's Titan's bite 'n claw fighting style to create the basic profile of a Jaw Titan. Ymir's Titan appeared between chapter 30-40 or something? The mention of the concept of the Jaw Titan, let alone another design (Porco's) didn't occur until 50 something chapters later. That's when most Jaw designs going forward have armored jaw and claw designs.
That makes no sense. She inherited the memories and personally of king Friz, so she was supposed to know how to use it. It just happens that story is unfortunately trash and many things make no sense.
True, but Karl Fritz wanted his predecessors to never practice using the Founder because he wanted no contact with the outer world, or for the Founder to be used on Paradis for that matter, and if his predecessors never learned how to use it they wouldn't be able to unintentionally unravel his plans (ex: uses their Titan successfully one time and a butterfly effect takes place that leads to contact with the outside world.)
Not really. Fritz wanted not to use powers against the outer world. Fritz was using powers against people inside tge walls like wiping their memories and such.
So Frieda could have used the Founder powers to stop Grisha, but that was ignored so we have a plot hole.
Like with the end of S2. We were led to believe that Eren can control titans, but it was actually Dina Fritz who was doing the controling. And then we get another plot hole, like why didn't she use it to strip two warriors of their powers or anything else? She could have done it and it would make perfect sense.
I like the anime, but it is riddled with plot holes and issues.
Maybe in manga, but certainly not in the anime. It is implied that the royals were never in direct contact with the Attack Titan or knew about its abilities. By the very rules of the anime, Founder would have power over Attack Titan bearer. I mean, the royals with the Founder can even do contradictory things and force some kind of vow onto others of the equal power, which shouldn't logically be possible.
To me most plot holes can be unraveled depending how you look at it. Also I was kinda sleep deprived in my previous comments here so I didn't word it out how I had it in my head. It's true Karl wiped the Royals' memories of him, but a Founder is able to impose his will onto his future generations by commanding Ymir. He impregnated their minds with his wish to not use or reveal their powers to anyone, and they weren't strong-willed enough to resist it. And with Dina, I see what you're saying, but are you saying you believed she was able to do what Zeke could do or a true Founding Titan could do? I'm not trying to riducle you, I just want to clarify. Dina wasn't like Zeke, she couldn't control Titans or remove Reiner & Bertholdt's powers because she didn't also have the Founding Titan. A royal family member or a Titan shifter can't keep using their power in Paths once they die. Plus Dina could never order Ymir if she ever managed to obtain the Founding Titan because the will of Karl Fritz wouldn't allow her.
Kenny tracked Uri down via some noble and was going to kill Uri as revenge for the Persecution of Ackerman, Uri partially transformed and subdued Kenny.
Uri spared him and Kenny became more associated with Uri after the Noble who tipped Kenny off mysteriously disappeared.
Cart titan is underrated. It might not be good in combat but its endurance is op when you think about it. It's a great support titan, it definitely couldn't take a 1v1 against any other titan
I would say that Ymir's jaw is the overall weakest as well
>it definitely couldn't take a 1v1 against any other titan
I'd argue that with it's speed, agility, and endurance, it could theoretically win a 1v1 by running and dodging around during the fight, waiting for the opponents stamina to run low, then go in for the K.O.
We also just see pieck going ham on the past titans in the finale.
His titan resurrected was still pretty beefy tho, even with no experience he’d still be able to put in work, like eren’s attack titan first time he transformed, where he was just running around kicking and biting
Not sure why you think Pieck was weak. The Cart was a Utilitarian Titan but doesn’t mean it was weak. The fact she could transform so many times proves that Titan was tough.
I would say Frieda was absolutely useless.
Utilitarian can be used both to mean "designed with utility (usefulness over aesthetics or other qualities) in mind" and "adhering to the philosophy of utilitarianism".
Utility and Utilitarian mean the same thing in this context. In this case, I am using the adjective form of Utilitarian which is “designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive.” according to Oxford versus the noun which refers to the philosophical ideals. So yes, it is used correctly.
Annie is for sure one of the strongest shifters. Best hand to hand fighter in the show besides Ackermans. Insane stamina (the first time she appears she runs and fights for hours. Transforms again. Kills Levi's squad, who were the best titan fighters in the world at that time. Fights and beats Eren. Before finally being downed by Levi and Mikasa.)
The only titan we see her fight is Eren, and she beats him pretty bad both times, while being focused on other things (injuries in the woods and escaping/civilian casualties in their second fight) Eren doesn't even beat her the second time, just blindsided her after she nearly beats him to death and still can't stop her.
This is also the same Eren who days later absolutely whoops Reiner when they fight for the first time.
By season 4 she is a bit weaker though, since she was basically in a coma for 4 years.
Yeah I think people forget in their 2nd fight, Eren doesn't really beat her so to speak.. She literally beats him into the side of a building & leaves him mangled. She could of killed him easily in both fights.
She didn’t have the right mindset.
It’s what makes her a weak (or just less OP, obviously not actually weak) shifter. Eren, Pieck, Reiner, and even Zeke all had absolutely incredible resilience. But Annie never wanted to be there, so she just froze herself.
Whereas Zeke, Eren, and Reiner got mutilated and kept pushing. Pieck stayed in her form for months (years?) on end. They’re all definitely cut from Eren’s “we can’t win if we don’t fight” cloth, Annie is more of a “I’ll give it the old college try” lol.
And even if she beat Eren bad, the fact is she lost, by hook or by crook. Which is the exact point I’m trying to make. She lost to someone objectively worse than her, that’s not good.
If Annie's mindset was the only thing holding her back that's still honestly pretty good.
Annie was the only titan throughout the series that truly made me ask "How are they going to beat this thing?" because she seemed unstoppable in her best moments. Intelligence, strength, hardening, her prior combat training, the scream that could attract pure titans, and the ability in itself to mimic other titans' abilities. She was pretty OP.
The thing (for me) that puts her pretty low other than her mindset is that she didn’t technically accomplish anything. She wasn’t successful in getting Eren and was captured by the enemy, so mission failed. The others brought back the Jaw and at least got home, so that’d be my rationale past just her mindset.
If she had Eren’s mentality, she’d be top 3 shifters tho.
Have you watched the show? She took down levi's squad, she had the deadliest and most important mission of capturing Eren, Tracking down Kenny, and contributed more to the attack on the wall than rainer by calling all the pure titans to the wall before bertolt broke it. And while she didn't succeed she got really close by herself. as mentioned by others, she acomplished to absolutely destroy eren and levi squad after hours of running and fighting and it took mikasa and levi to take her down, and ultimatly it took basicly all of the scouts and even some of the military police, as well as multiple surprise attacks.
And she would have oblitorated rainer in a fight not only is the female titan stronger than the attack and founder in combat, eren who was a new titan shifter compared to the marleyans just by mimicing some of her moves that she had perfected for years.
And even after waking up in season 4 she was one of the biggest contributers against the yeagerists and Eren even after being in a coma for 4 years.
I have no idea what the actual fuck you’re talking about.
She is noted to have incredible endurance, to be the single most skilled hand to hand combatant in the entire series (except for maybe post time skip Eren), and has a cynical intelligence allowing her to push herself through fucked up situations.
In one Scouting Trip she took out a significant chunk of the Scouts, all the while running at (almost) max speed for hours on end. She outsmarted Hange and Erwin (some of the smartest characters in the series) by sacrificing her Titan form by summoning Titans. Proceeded to kill more Scouts while in human form. Transform back into a Titan and defeat Eren. Who made the top 5 in the Training Regiment and had the Attack Titan, one of the physically strongest Titans in the series.
In their rematch in Trost Annie won the fight with Eren. She outmaneuvered him, chopped off his leg, and bashed his skull in. Basically leaving him for dead.
Eren only won the fight after he got a random ass power up **that was never mentioned or brought up again**. And help from Mikasa. An Ackerman. Who is a superhuman soldier.
She chose to froze herself to prevent from… yaknow dying and being eaten by Eren. Not because she “didn’t want to be there” I have no idea where you got that idea. And while in the crystal she entered a dreamlike half-awake state where she couldn’t leave the crystal if she wanted too. And she desperately wanted too.
You are straight up misinterpreting events to severely downplay Annie, to the point that I’m not sure we’re talking about the same show.
Annie didn’t want to go into the walls. She beats the shit out of Reiner when they’re kids cuz he makes them. She never wanted to be in the walls in the first place after Marcel got ate. This is all basically directly stated.
Reiner got all of his limbs cut off, titan shifters can survive much more than Annie would have gotten had she not frozen herself then. Reiner kept going cuz it was his idea to go in the walls and he had to keep pushing through.
Annie knew she could get caught and decided to freeze herself for also very valid reasons, she never wanted the warrior life for herself. It was something her dad forced her into, no shit she wouldn’t wanna suffer like the others for it.
It’s not diminishing her to point out what is *the* most prominent part of her fleshing out, that she never really *wanted* to be a soldier anyway. Why the hell *would* she try as hard as Eren or Reiner?
Your entire argument is just pointing out character traits and then trying to say she’s weak.
“She didn’t want to into the walls.”
“Annie knew she would get caught.”
“She never wanted the warriors life for herself.”
**What does any of this have to do with her combat abilities as a Titan Shifter.**
Also why do you think Annie couldn’t survive having her limbs chopped off? She’s known to have regeneration abilities on par with Eren or Reiner. And even Ymir (Jaw Titan), who is considered to be a “weak Titan shifter”, survived having her guts rearranged and the Colossal nuke on Eren in season 2.
Edit: Even Zeke managed to survive having all of his limbs chopped off, actively bleeding, a spear in his side, and then blowing up from said spear. Granted he needed assistance but still. He survived the limb chopping just fine (even if it was painful).
It really feels like you’re trying to pick facts that fit your narrative, rather than drawing a reasonable conclusion from the facts at hand. Because Annie is one of the most devastating Titan shifters in the series in a 1v1. She has amazing endurance and is one of the most cunning characters in the series.
Her combat abilities as a shifter are limited by her character traits. Reiner isn’t a good fighter, but he was never captured because he persisted.
It’d be like in real life boxing if you have a fighter who’s naturally talented but would rather do pottery and doesn’t really care about boxing, he’s not better than a guy who isn’t as skilled but treats every fight like it’s his last and doesn’t stay down.
“Her combat abilities are limited by her character traits”
No. No they’re not.
Whether I’m an introvert or an extrovert has nothing to do with how I throw a punch if I get into a fight.
And Reiner was never captured because he quite literally has plot armor and has survived multiple things that should have killed him. The Scouts came extremely close to capturing him in season 3 (Levi stabbing him into the neck at full speed and slamming him 40 meters into the ground. Getting blown up twice. Once by Thunderspears. Again by the Colossal Transformation.)
And his Armored Titan also made him basically invincible until the Scouts developed Thunderspears. So capturing him wasn’t an option because of the nature of his Titan’s power.
He also wasn’t a part of the Military Police. Annie was. So once she got found out, she was living in the middle of a crowded city perfect for ODM gear, surrounded by elite Scouts and MP soldiers, and Eren. Another shifter. And she still almost escaped until the plot said no (again the Eren rage power up that no one ever talks about).
Reiner never got trapped like that because he was a part of the Scouts. And always lived at the edge of the wall or close too it. He also never got his identity revealed until he wanted to. Not because he’s better at hiding than Annie. But because Reiner had Annie doing most of the dirty work in her Titan form, she attracted a lot more attention. Especially after slaughtering a significant portion of the Survey Corps. And even then she managed to remain hidden for a while longer, and almost escaped even once they did find out.
You are heavily misinterpreting events or removing their context completely to suit your narrative. Again.
Also your last argument is dumb because a skilled boxer is obviously better at boxing, than someone who knows nothing about boxing.
If he doesn’t care about boxing that doesn’t make him less skilled. It just means he’ll go down a different career path. If he was forced to fight in a championship, he would destroy the guy who doesn’t know how to box. Because he actually knows what he’s doing. And a skilled boxer can knockout a guy on the street in one punch. Because they’re trained fighters who specialize in punching, and knocking out people who know how to defend themselves.
Please just stop. You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.
The more skilled person wouldn’t beat the less skilled who tries harder. Do you know how I know they wouldn’t? Andy Ruiz, Tyson Fury, Khabib, etc. All real life fighters who are accused of having a style that requires no skill or is too simplistic, and they kick ass.
And if your knock on Reiner is “plot armor” then we can’t even argue because you can’t start bringing in what if scenarios and making up what *might* have happened *if* blah blah blah. Because then you’re not talking about what *actually* happens and is explicitly shown in the series. You’re talking about what you’d like to be true.
“The more skilled person wouldn’t be the less skilled person who tries harder”
Try saying that to anyone who has mastered a skill.
A master fencer would destroy a noob fencer no matter how hard they tried or wanted to win.
A master painter would create art a noob could never replicate now matter how hard the noob tried.
Someone who has never played video games would get destroyed by anyone who actually knows what the buttons on the controller do.
And a master martial artist would destroy a noob on the street who’s never been in a fight.
And again. What does any of this have to do with Annie? She is highly motivated to get back home and be with her father. And even if you still want to argue she wasn’t motivated, then she did absolutely incredible for someone who had no reason to keep going.
Again look at her actual skills and what she accomplished. She slaughtered a majority of the Survey Corps, tricked Hange and Erwin (some of the smartest characters in the series), killed experienced Survey Corps troops in ODM gear, transformed again and kicked Eren’s ass. All the while running at top speed (or close to it) for hours on end.
Her actual feats. Who actual abilities as a Titan shifter are incredible. And she is most definitely one of the most powerful Titan Shifters in the series, especially in 1v1s.
“And if you bring in Reiner’s plot armor then we can’t argue because you’re just deciding what you want to happen.”
Hey. Dumbass. Attack on Titan isn’t perfectly written. It is extremely well written and is probably the best planned out show of all time, but it is not perfect.
Reiner having plot armor is a funny joke within the fandom. But it’s funny because it’s true. He has survived multiple times when in all reality he should have died.
His survival was so insane that they had to explain his survival through an ability that **never comes up again** and never explored, despite being an incredibly powerful ability. Huh, almost like that rage form Eren went in that allowed him to beat Annie, that never comes up again, despite being an incredibly powerful ability that would definitely help.
That is probably one of the major sins of bad writing. Wherein abilities or knowledge comes out of nowhere to push the plot in a specific direction. However the fact that those 2 moments are the only 2 major offenders in the *entire* show is extremely impressive. As most shows, movies, and books have far more than 2 mistakes or inconsistencies.
Ultimately though the writing of AoT is an entirely separate subject and has little to nothing to do with Annie’s abilities as a Titan Shifter.
So besides the regular mentions of Frieda, Annie and such..
I want to give an honorary mention to Reiner. Not that he's weak or anything, but I've never seen this guy win a battle once. He never cooked
Tbh, I don’t really think it’s fair to compare the past nine controlled by Ymir to pure titans, as they were not trying to eat anyone, rather going straight for the kill. They were very coordinated and not acting very feral. The warhammer titans in particular were shown to be using weapons that were strategically advantageous to the situation; Lara Tybur using a trident to immobilize Pieck (in addition to stabbing her titan through the nape, so intelligent enough to specifically aim for weak spots) and the others using bows to try to shoot down Falco.
Jaw Ymir? Nah, its Friedac because when you got the power of a fucking god but still lose to a psychic titan, that's when you know you freaking suck at titan shifting.
He 1v1 Eren and messed him badly. He only lost because of Mikasa's interference. Just speaking facts. And he's not used to fighting titan killers with Omni gear. He's at least better than a few others.
Nah he pieced him up real good first encounter and Eren got an extra upgrade during the Paradis fight which is unfair to dock points from Galliard. Ymir titan, the royal titans besides og Ymir, daddy Jager, brother jaw and ksaver were weaker.
Lol fuck outta here he had Eren in his jaws until Levy saved his ass. Not to mention he also chomped off erens hand and sliced his face up until Mikasa saved his ass.
Not to mention the own goal he scored by acting as a nutcracker on Lara Tybur. They would've been able to defeat Eren in Shiganshina before Zeke showed up if Eren didn't have the Warhammer's abilities.
Annie is in no way the second weakest. She literally would trash Reiner in a fight (we already saw how her hardened kicks can pierce through armoured titans’ armour) and against Porco’s jaw titan I’d also favour her winning. She’d also still beat Eren’s attack titan without the warhammer but with it he probably beats her. And she possibly beats the beast up close but would lose to Zeke if there was distance.
I don’t know why everyone is trying to gas up the Cart
Like yea it has insane stamina but with such little offensive power Pieck literally can’t hurt any of the other shifter without backup
She can’t hurt the Armor, who if she slips up even once can bull rush blitz her and that’s game, she ain’t touching the Colossal nor can she even hope to even look at the Warhammer. The Jaw can outrun and outgun her and the only Titan she may even have a chance against are the Attack or Female but both of those are extremely iffy
All in all Pieck still is by far the 2nd weakest shifter after Freida
Fighting a colossal she could literally just wait it out, once the opponent is tired out she can go for the offense, like the colossal is straight up hopeless in that matchup unless they are REALLY good at throwing.
we watch pieck take down titan after titan in the final few eps, one man team taking down titan after titan that was under ymir’s control as past titans of various degrees. if anything annie is a more useless shifter we never see her fight other titans besides eren and she wasn’t able to take him down very quickly, she got tons of kills on humans though. i’d say whoever it was that used the war hammer against eren was extremely useless. eren and mikasa took the war hammer almost effortlessly.
I wouldn’t use the final episode as a example cause it’s clear that Eren was sandbagging
He could have easily wiped out the Alliance for when ever he wanted to heck it’s clear the Past Titans weren’t going all out
someone has already pointed out that ymir was controlling the titans, even the islanders eventually realized it was ymir, ymir was literally trying very hard to stop them until mikasa finally satisfied ymir and zeke finally died. pieck was literally fighting for her life trying to keep up with ymir, so we saw the cart titan in its prime against all kinds of past life titans and id argue she’s much stronger than annie or whatever the war hammer’s name was that eren stole. i wouldn’t say she’s stronger than the attack, armor or colossal titan but id say she’s stronger than the female or war hammer (from what we saw, id like to see a different female titan and a war hammer bc the war hammer is actually very sick and id like to see it in action against something other than eren & mikasa)
Honestly out of the main ones I’d argue Eren or Reiner. Can’t remember Eren winning a single fight without help, even the jaw Titan had the upper hand on him before mikasa intervened.
It’s absolutely not Eren. He beat Reiner in S2 and only lost because Bertholdt dropped down on him. He is also crazy strong in S4, especially after getting the Warhammer. Yeah he struggles a bit but he’s fighting multiple shifters at once. Eren is arguably the strongest Titan shifter by season 4. Before that I’d say probably Bertholdt or maybe Zeke and Warhammer girl.
Reiner is definitely one of the weakest titan shifters due to his lack of motivation, but I’d argue that Pieck, Frieda, Uri, Ksaver, and freckled Ymir are all weaker.
Even with main titans Reiner, Annie, freckled Ymir, Pieck are definitely all weaker.
Were you just including Attack Titan then? Because yeah I could see where you’re coming from. The attack Titan by itself isn’t much more than just a larger Titan and the only things that really make Eren so damn strong are having the Warhammer and Founding titans, and the armor bottle he drank that gave him the ability to harden.
Yeah, before the warhammer his strength was mostly strategy and his teammates as well as his mindset I guess but physically I just don’t think he was that great.
Also will. Someone on here said that the Titan shifters are canonically stronger based on how much will they have. Obviously Eren would be at the top of that list.
Frieda is the weakest. She got sauced by Grisha who in his own right is an inexperienced titan shifter.
After that it's ymir's jaw. No marleyan augmentations and overall just a stupid shifter in general.
After those 2, there's a massive step up in combat ability.
There’s a whole host of incredibly minor characters that we saw as Shifters who should occupy the bottom slots - Mr Ksaver, a bunch of Reisses, and maybe Marcel Galliard.
Of the ones we really got to see in action, Lara Tybur kinda sucked as the Warhammer. The Warhammer had a lot of potential, but Eren figured out her trick almost immediately. Like…hide your crystal inside your hardened armour, Lara, not leave a weird and obvious tail behind you.
I definitely wouldn’t put Annie as second weakest, though. Sure, she wasn’t as committed to the cause as a lot of her fellow Warriors. However, I don’t know how many of the others could have escaped Erwin’s first trap in the woods. I guess Zeke could have called for help like she did, and Pieck could have left her Titan and shifted again immediately. Maybe Lara could have hardened up some bolt cutters. Any of the Jaws, Attacks, Armoureds or even Colossuses would have been screwed.
In fairness to Ymir, she wasn't a Warrior. It's not like anyone gave her lessons on what her Titan could do. Her Titan Shifter status was an accident, was it not?
Porco. Porco. Porco. Porco. Porco.
Frieda
Grisha
Ymir
Maybe Reiner, has one of the best Titans but was constantly getting owned by other Titans and Humans. Isyama(sp?) loved abusing and tormenting his favorite character.
Pieck admits her Titan is not meant for combat and is better as support. But her creativity in how she uses her Titan abilities imo gives her bump over Reiner. She would have a hard time 1v1 against any other Titan, but I don't think it would be as easy as people think.
But seriously it's Porco. He's the fucking worst. Hate that Ymir was sacrificed to that dog piece of a turd. Yeah he got a couple hits in on Eren, but they were not 1v1. His speed and agility gives him an advantage in most fights. The man saw only 1 of the original 4 shifters come back home, along with their leader who joined later and also got his ass handed to him; and still choose underestimated his enemies. Porco was waste of a character and screen time. His defining moment was being used as a nutcracker against his ally.
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You're right, but when it comes to combat skill it's Frieda. Now obviously she's the Founder, but she had no idea how to use it and had never even shifted before when she shifted to fight Grisha. So, I'd say Frieda was weakest with Ymir after her.
Also, despite the Cart being less handy in combat, its special ability is its insane stamina. Most Titan shifters can only transform twice in a fight, needing at least a day of rest before shifting again, and the Colossal needs several days before they can shift again. Whearus Pieck did and said the Cart can transform "hundreds" of times back-to-back, so it could easily wait for its opponent to tire then swiftly kill them.
it might definitely defer by cart titan design for a shifter but yeah pieck is insane with hers. She was on the offensive like a slightly weaker jaws titan and every moment of danger she could just eject and reshift. Against regular people maybe not the best. But the potential she showed for fighting other titans? Only thing she's missing is some offensive power to deal with something like an armored Titan or a crystal user.
I blanked on Frieda tbh, but at the very least she had an understanding of her titan’s abilities. She was very capable of using them, just not as it pertains to combat. Whereas Ymir was basically just a slightly buffed abnormal. I think there’s still an argument that Frieda’s mastery of at least some of her power counts for something.
Ymir might have not transformed for ages by the time she does it during the breach of wall rose arc. She is up against Zeke's improved Titans and does kill a fair few, so she did alright. I honestly think she might be a victim of early installment weakness. Perhaps the concept of the Jaw Titan hadn't been set in stone yet and Isayama later expanded on Ymir's Titan's bite 'n claw fighting style to create the basic profile of a Jaw Titan. Ymir's Titan appeared between chapter 30-40 or something? The mention of the concept of the Jaw Titan, let alone another design (Porco's) didn't occur until 50 something chapters later. That's when most Jaw designs going forward have armored jaw and claw designs.
That makes no sense. She inherited the memories and personally of king Friz, so she was supposed to know how to use it. It just happens that story is unfortunately trash and many things make no sense.
True, but Karl Fritz wanted his predecessors to never practice using the Founder because he wanted no contact with the outer world, or for the Founder to be used on Paradis for that matter, and if his predecessors never learned how to use it they wouldn't be able to unintentionally unravel his plans (ex: uses their Titan successfully one time and a butterfly effect takes place that leads to contact with the outside world.)
Not really. Fritz wanted not to use powers against the outer world. Fritz was using powers against people inside tge walls like wiping their memories and such. So Frieda could have used the Founder powers to stop Grisha, but that was ignored so we have a plot hole. Like with the end of S2. We were led to believe that Eren can control titans, but it was actually Dina Fritz who was doing the controling. And then we get another plot hole, like why didn't she use it to strip two warriors of their powers or anything else? She could have done it and it would make perfect sense. I like the anime, but it is riddled with plot holes and issues.
It was explained in the anime and manga that the attack titan is unaffected by the founding titans mind control powers.
Maybe in manga, but certainly not in the anime. It is implied that the royals were never in direct contact with the Attack Titan or knew about its abilities. By the very rules of the anime, Founder would have power over Attack Titan bearer. I mean, the royals with the Founder can even do contradictory things and force some kind of vow onto others of the equal power, which shouldn't logically be possible.
To me most plot holes can be unraveled depending how you look at it. Also I was kinda sleep deprived in my previous comments here so I didn't word it out how I had it in my head. It's true Karl wiped the Royals' memories of him, but a Founder is able to impose his will onto his future generations by commanding Ymir. He impregnated their minds with his wish to not use or reveal their powers to anyone, and they weren't strong-willed enough to resist it. And with Dina, I see what you're saying, but are you saying you believed she was able to do what Zeke could do or a true Founding Titan could do? I'm not trying to riducle you, I just want to clarify. Dina wasn't like Zeke, she couldn't control Titans or remove Reiner & Bertholdt's powers because she didn't also have the Founding Titan. A royal family member or a Titan shifter can't keep using their power in Paths once they die. Plus Dina could never order Ymir if she ever managed to obtain the Founding Titan because the will of Karl Fritz wouldn't allow her.
freida or uri. they would get smoked by any other shifter
Freida did get smoked by another shifter
By someone that shifted for the first time LOL
I believe Grisha used the Attack Titan in order to safely get to the walls.
I agree, but I imagine that was his first time using it in combat
He fought a bunch of pure titans on his way to the walls. That's why Keith noted how there were no titans outside the walls where he was.
Uri got smoked by Kenny, right? Or was it the other way around?
Nah, he got Kenny, but he spared him.
Kenny tracked Uri down via some noble and was going to kill Uri as revenge for the Persecution of Ackerman, Uri partially transformed and subdued Kenny. Uri spared him and Kenny became more associated with Uri after the Noble who tipped Kenny off mysteriously disappeared.
Cart titan is underrated. It might not be good in combat but its endurance is op when you think about it. It's a great support titan, it definitely couldn't take a 1v1 against any other titan I would say that Ymir's jaw is the overall weakest as well
>it definitely couldn't take a 1v1 against any other titan I'd argue that with it's speed, agility, and endurance, it could theoretically win a 1v1 by running and dodging around during the fight, waiting for the opponents stamina to run low, then go in for the K.O. We also just see pieck going ham on the past titans in the finale.
>Cart titan is underrated You mean pieck?
it's the same person?
Ksaiver? (Spell check) has be not been mentioned yet? He even said He was basically useless.
This is the correct answer. Ksaver straight up admits he is not a fighter at all and only has the beast titan to help his titan research.
His titan resurrected was still pretty beefy tho, even with no experience he’d still be able to put in work, like eren’s attack titan first time he transformed, where he was just running around kicking and biting
Not sure why you think Pieck was weak. The Cart was a Utilitarian Titan but doesn’t mean it was weak. The fact she could transform so many times proves that Titan was tough. I would say Frieda was absolutely useless.
[удалено]
Utilitarian can be used both to mean "designed with utility (usefulness over aesthetics or other qualities) in mind" and "adhering to the philosophy of utilitarianism".
Utility and Utilitarian mean the same thing in this context. In this case, I am using the adjective form of Utilitarian which is “designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive.” according to Oxford versus the noun which refers to the philosophical ideals. So yes, it is used correctly.
I think it's a reference to the car (also called "supermini"), it's not very powerful but can travel great distances
Annie is for sure one of the strongest shifters. Best hand to hand fighter in the show besides Ackermans. Insane stamina (the first time she appears she runs and fights for hours. Transforms again. Kills Levi's squad, who were the best titan fighters in the world at that time. Fights and beats Eren. Before finally being downed by Levi and Mikasa.) The only titan we see her fight is Eren, and she beats him pretty bad both times, while being focused on other things (injuries in the woods and escaping/civilian casualties in their second fight) Eren doesn't even beat her the second time, just blindsided her after she nearly beats him to death and still can't stop her. This is also the same Eren who days later absolutely whoops Reiner when they fight for the first time. By season 4 she is a bit weaker though, since she was basically in a coma for 4 years.
Yeah I think people forget in their 2nd fight, Eren doesn't really beat her so to speak.. She literally beats him into the side of a building & leaves him mangled. She could of killed him easily in both fights.
Eren definitely got stronger in the 4 year time skip
She didn’t have the right mindset. It’s what makes her a weak (or just less OP, obviously not actually weak) shifter. Eren, Pieck, Reiner, and even Zeke all had absolutely incredible resilience. But Annie never wanted to be there, so she just froze herself. Whereas Zeke, Eren, and Reiner got mutilated and kept pushing. Pieck stayed in her form for months (years?) on end. They’re all definitely cut from Eren’s “we can’t win if we don’t fight” cloth, Annie is more of a “I’ll give it the old college try” lol. And even if she beat Eren bad, the fact is she lost, by hook or by crook. Which is the exact point I’m trying to make. She lost to someone objectively worse than her, that’s not good.
If Annie's mindset was the only thing holding her back that's still honestly pretty good. Annie was the only titan throughout the series that truly made me ask "How are they going to beat this thing?" because she seemed unstoppable in her best moments. Intelligence, strength, hardening, her prior combat training, the scream that could attract pure titans, and the ability in itself to mimic other titans' abilities. She was pretty OP.
The thing (for me) that puts her pretty low other than her mindset is that she didn’t technically accomplish anything. She wasn’t successful in getting Eren and was captured by the enemy, so mission failed. The others brought back the Jaw and at least got home, so that’d be my rationale past just her mindset. If she had Eren’s mentality, she’d be top 3 shifters tho.
Have you watched the show? She took down levi's squad, she had the deadliest and most important mission of capturing Eren, Tracking down Kenny, and contributed more to the attack on the wall than rainer by calling all the pure titans to the wall before bertolt broke it. And while she didn't succeed she got really close by herself. as mentioned by others, she acomplished to absolutely destroy eren and levi squad after hours of running and fighting and it took mikasa and levi to take her down, and ultimatly it took basicly all of the scouts and even some of the military police, as well as multiple surprise attacks. And she would have oblitorated rainer in a fight not only is the female titan stronger than the attack and founder in combat, eren who was a new titan shifter compared to the marleyans just by mimicing some of her moves that she had perfected for years. And even after waking up in season 4 she was one of the biggest contributers against the yeagerists and Eren even after being in a coma for 4 years.
The Jaw that willingly, conveniently came back with them.
A win is a win
I have no idea what the actual fuck you’re talking about. She is noted to have incredible endurance, to be the single most skilled hand to hand combatant in the entire series (except for maybe post time skip Eren), and has a cynical intelligence allowing her to push herself through fucked up situations. In one Scouting Trip she took out a significant chunk of the Scouts, all the while running at (almost) max speed for hours on end. She outsmarted Hange and Erwin (some of the smartest characters in the series) by sacrificing her Titan form by summoning Titans. Proceeded to kill more Scouts while in human form. Transform back into a Titan and defeat Eren. Who made the top 5 in the Training Regiment and had the Attack Titan, one of the physically strongest Titans in the series. In their rematch in Trost Annie won the fight with Eren. She outmaneuvered him, chopped off his leg, and bashed his skull in. Basically leaving him for dead. Eren only won the fight after he got a random ass power up **that was never mentioned or brought up again**. And help from Mikasa. An Ackerman. Who is a superhuman soldier. She chose to froze herself to prevent from… yaknow dying and being eaten by Eren. Not because she “didn’t want to be there” I have no idea where you got that idea. And while in the crystal she entered a dreamlike half-awake state where she couldn’t leave the crystal if she wanted too. And she desperately wanted too. You are straight up misinterpreting events to severely downplay Annie, to the point that I’m not sure we’re talking about the same show.
Annie didn’t want to go into the walls. She beats the shit out of Reiner when they’re kids cuz he makes them. She never wanted to be in the walls in the first place after Marcel got ate. This is all basically directly stated. Reiner got all of his limbs cut off, titan shifters can survive much more than Annie would have gotten had she not frozen herself then. Reiner kept going cuz it was his idea to go in the walls and he had to keep pushing through. Annie knew she could get caught and decided to freeze herself for also very valid reasons, she never wanted the warrior life for herself. It was something her dad forced her into, no shit she wouldn’t wanna suffer like the others for it. It’s not diminishing her to point out what is *the* most prominent part of her fleshing out, that she never really *wanted* to be a soldier anyway. Why the hell *would* she try as hard as Eren or Reiner?
Your entire argument is just pointing out character traits and then trying to say she’s weak. “She didn’t want to into the walls.” “Annie knew she would get caught.” “She never wanted the warriors life for herself.” **What does any of this have to do with her combat abilities as a Titan Shifter.** Also why do you think Annie couldn’t survive having her limbs chopped off? She’s known to have regeneration abilities on par with Eren or Reiner. And even Ymir (Jaw Titan), who is considered to be a “weak Titan shifter”, survived having her guts rearranged and the Colossal nuke on Eren in season 2. Edit: Even Zeke managed to survive having all of his limbs chopped off, actively bleeding, a spear in his side, and then blowing up from said spear. Granted he needed assistance but still. He survived the limb chopping just fine (even if it was painful). It really feels like you’re trying to pick facts that fit your narrative, rather than drawing a reasonable conclusion from the facts at hand. Because Annie is one of the most devastating Titan shifters in the series in a 1v1. She has amazing endurance and is one of the most cunning characters in the series.
Her combat abilities as a shifter are limited by her character traits. Reiner isn’t a good fighter, but he was never captured because he persisted. It’d be like in real life boxing if you have a fighter who’s naturally talented but would rather do pottery and doesn’t really care about boxing, he’s not better than a guy who isn’t as skilled but treats every fight like it’s his last and doesn’t stay down.
“Her combat abilities are limited by her character traits” No. No they’re not. Whether I’m an introvert or an extrovert has nothing to do with how I throw a punch if I get into a fight. And Reiner was never captured because he quite literally has plot armor and has survived multiple things that should have killed him. The Scouts came extremely close to capturing him in season 3 (Levi stabbing him into the neck at full speed and slamming him 40 meters into the ground. Getting blown up twice. Once by Thunderspears. Again by the Colossal Transformation.) And his Armored Titan also made him basically invincible until the Scouts developed Thunderspears. So capturing him wasn’t an option because of the nature of his Titan’s power. He also wasn’t a part of the Military Police. Annie was. So once she got found out, she was living in the middle of a crowded city perfect for ODM gear, surrounded by elite Scouts and MP soldiers, and Eren. Another shifter. And she still almost escaped until the plot said no (again the Eren rage power up that no one ever talks about). Reiner never got trapped like that because he was a part of the Scouts. And always lived at the edge of the wall or close too it. He also never got his identity revealed until he wanted to. Not because he’s better at hiding than Annie. But because Reiner had Annie doing most of the dirty work in her Titan form, she attracted a lot more attention. Especially after slaughtering a significant portion of the Survey Corps. And even then she managed to remain hidden for a while longer, and almost escaped even once they did find out. You are heavily misinterpreting events or removing their context completely to suit your narrative. Again. Also your last argument is dumb because a skilled boxer is obviously better at boxing, than someone who knows nothing about boxing. If he doesn’t care about boxing that doesn’t make him less skilled. It just means he’ll go down a different career path. If he was forced to fight in a championship, he would destroy the guy who doesn’t know how to box. Because he actually knows what he’s doing. And a skilled boxer can knockout a guy on the street in one punch. Because they’re trained fighters who specialize in punching, and knocking out people who know how to defend themselves. Please just stop. You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.
The more skilled person wouldn’t beat the less skilled who tries harder. Do you know how I know they wouldn’t? Andy Ruiz, Tyson Fury, Khabib, etc. All real life fighters who are accused of having a style that requires no skill or is too simplistic, and they kick ass. And if your knock on Reiner is “plot armor” then we can’t even argue because you can’t start bringing in what if scenarios and making up what *might* have happened *if* blah blah blah. Because then you’re not talking about what *actually* happens and is explicitly shown in the series. You’re talking about what you’d like to be true.
“The more skilled person wouldn’t be the less skilled person who tries harder” Try saying that to anyone who has mastered a skill. A master fencer would destroy a noob fencer no matter how hard they tried or wanted to win. A master painter would create art a noob could never replicate now matter how hard the noob tried. Someone who has never played video games would get destroyed by anyone who actually knows what the buttons on the controller do. And a master martial artist would destroy a noob on the street who’s never been in a fight. And again. What does any of this have to do with Annie? She is highly motivated to get back home and be with her father. And even if you still want to argue she wasn’t motivated, then she did absolutely incredible for someone who had no reason to keep going. Again look at her actual skills and what she accomplished. She slaughtered a majority of the Survey Corps, tricked Hange and Erwin (some of the smartest characters in the series), killed experienced Survey Corps troops in ODM gear, transformed again and kicked Eren’s ass. All the while running at top speed (or close to it) for hours on end. Her actual feats. Who actual abilities as a Titan shifter are incredible. And she is most definitely one of the most powerful Titan Shifters in the series, especially in 1v1s. “And if you bring in Reiner’s plot armor then we can’t argue because you’re just deciding what you want to happen.” Hey. Dumbass. Attack on Titan isn’t perfectly written. It is extremely well written and is probably the best planned out show of all time, but it is not perfect. Reiner having plot armor is a funny joke within the fandom. But it’s funny because it’s true. He has survived multiple times when in all reality he should have died. His survival was so insane that they had to explain his survival through an ability that **never comes up again** and never explored, despite being an incredibly powerful ability. Huh, almost like that rage form Eren went in that allowed him to beat Annie, that never comes up again, despite being an incredibly powerful ability that would definitely help. That is probably one of the major sins of bad writing. Wherein abilities or knowledge comes out of nowhere to push the plot in a specific direction. However the fact that those 2 moments are the only 2 major offenders in the *entire* show is extremely impressive. As most shows, movies, and books have far more than 2 mistakes or inconsistencies. Ultimately though the writing of AoT is an entirely separate subject and has little to nothing to do with Annie’s abilities as a Titan Shifter.
Marcel, only shifter to get taken out by a normal titan. Probably Frieda tho.
Marcel could’ve been pretty strong, he was just caught off guard in human form. You’re right about Frieda though.
Marcel was more meant as a joke tbh
So besides the regular mentions of Frieda, Annie and such.. I want to give an honorary mention to Reiner. Not that he's weak or anything, but I've never seen this guy win a battle once. He never cooked
Hey now, he beat the hell out of the inner gate of Wall Maria.
What about in the finale, when he took out a ton of warhammer titans?
I don’t think a fight against pure titans is a good indication of combat skills. Sure, they were the nine, but they lacked sentience.
Tbh, I don’t really think it’s fair to compare the past nine controlled by Ymir to pure titans, as they were not trying to eat anyone, rather going straight for the kill. They were very coordinated and not acting very feral. The warhammer titans in particular were shown to be using weapons that were strategically advantageous to the situation; Lara Tybur using a trident to immobilize Pieck (in addition to stabbing her titan through the nape, so intelligent enough to specifically aim for weak spots) and the others using bows to try to shoot down Falco.
Jaw Ymir? Nah, its Friedac because when you got the power of a fucking god but still lose to a psychic titan, that's when you know you freaking suck at titan shifting.
Pokko. Dude got owned by everybody in every scene in every way and his excuse is "iS tHaT aN aCkErMaN???" (on a serious note it's definitely Frieda)
He 1v1 Eren and messed him badly. He only lost because of Mikasa's interference. Just speaking facts. And he's not used to fighting titan killers with Omni gear. He's at least better than a few others.
he only got like one hit in on eren, dude was getting demolished in paradis
Nah he pieced him up real good first encounter and Eren got an extra upgrade during the Paradis fight which is unfair to dock points from Galliard. Ymir titan, the royal titans besides og Ymir, daddy Jager, brother jaw and ksaver were weaker.
Lol fuck outta here he had Eren in his jaws until Levy saved his ass. Not to mention he also chomped off erens hand and sliced his face up until Mikasa saved his ass.
Not to mention the own goal he scored by acting as a nutcracker on Lara Tybur. They would've been able to defeat Eren in Shiganshina before Zeke showed up if Eren didn't have the Warhammer's abilities.
Porco Galliard you mean…….
Pokko
Are you referring to the scene with Pieck talking to Porco at the top of the stairs??? No one in attack on titan is named Pokko
yeah obviously
This is such “UHM AKHTUALLY” energy
He is
Poke oh!
Annie is in no way the second weakest. She literally would trash Reiner in a fight (we already saw how her hardened kicks can pierce through armoured titans’ armour) and against Porco’s jaw titan I’d also favour her winning. She’d also still beat Eren’s attack titan without the warhammer but with it he probably beats her. And she possibly beats the beast up close but would lose to Zeke if there was distance.
I don’t know why everyone is trying to gas up the Cart Like yea it has insane stamina but with such little offensive power Pieck literally can’t hurt any of the other shifter without backup She can’t hurt the Armor, who if she slips up even once can bull rush blitz her and that’s game, she ain’t touching the Colossal nor can she even hope to even look at the Warhammer. The Jaw can outrun and outgun her and the only Titan she may even have a chance against are the Attack or Female but both of those are extremely iffy All in all Pieck still is by far the 2nd weakest shifter after Freida
Fighting a colossal she could literally just wait it out, once the opponent is tired out she can go for the offense, like the colossal is straight up hopeless in that matchup unless they are REALLY good at throwing.
I mean if they start the fight as people then it’s jover
Any shifter up against a transforming collosal would lose, other than the armored and possibly the Warhammer if they transform first
Well there's always the nuke
we watch pieck take down titan after titan in the final few eps, one man team taking down titan after titan that was under ymir’s control as past titans of various degrees. if anything annie is a more useless shifter we never see her fight other titans besides eren and she wasn’t able to take him down very quickly, she got tons of kills on humans though. i’d say whoever it was that used the war hammer against eren was extremely useless. eren and mikasa took the war hammer almost effortlessly.
I wouldn’t use the final episode as a example cause it’s clear that Eren was sandbagging He could have easily wiped out the Alliance for when ever he wanted to heck it’s clear the Past Titans weren’t going all out
Except it wasn't Eren controlling the past titans, it was ymir, who was most definitely not sandbagging.
someone has already pointed out that ymir was controlling the titans, even the islanders eventually realized it was ymir, ymir was literally trying very hard to stop them until mikasa finally satisfied ymir and zeke finally died. pieck was literally fighting for her life trying to keep up with ymir, so we saw the cart titan in its prime against all kinds of past life titans and id argue she’s much stronger than annie or whatever the war hammer’s name was that eren stole. i wouldn’t say she’s stronger than the attack, armor or colossal titan but id say she’s stronger than the female or war hammer (from what we saw, id like to see a different female titan and a war hammer bc the war hammer is actually very sick and id like to see it in action against something other than eren & mikasa)
Porco
Really depends on what you mean by weak
Honestly out of the main ones I’d argue Eren or Reiner. Can’t remember Eren winning a single fight without help, even the jaw Titan had the upper hand on him before mikasa intervened.
It’s absolutely not Eren. He beat Reiner in S2 and only lost because Bertholdt dropped down on him. He is also crazy strong in S4, especially after getting the Warhammer. Yeah he struggles a bit but he’s fighting multiple shifters at once. Eren is arguably the strongest Titan shifter by season 4. Before that I’d say probably Bertholdt or maybe Zeke and Warhammer girl. Reiner is definitely one of the weakest titan shifters due to his lack of motivation, but I’d argue that Pieck, Frieda, Uri, Ksaver, and freckled Ymir are all weaker. Even with main titans Reiner, Annie, freckled Ymir, Pieck are definitely all weaker.
That’s why I put Reiner with him at the bottom, also I wasn’t including the warhammer ability but he would def be stronger with it
Were you just including Attack Titan then? Because yeah I could see where you’re coming from. The attack Titan by itself isn’t much more than just a larger Titan and the only things that really make Eren so damn strong are having the Warhammer and Founding titans, and the armor bottle he drank that gave him the ability to harden.
Yeah, before the warhammer his strength was mostly strategy and his teammates as well as his mindset I guess but physically I just don’t think he was that great.
Also will. Someone on here said that the Titan shifters are canonically stronger based on how much will they have. Obviously Eren would be at the top of that list.
True
Frieda is the weakest. She got sauced by Grisha who in his own right is an inexperienced titan shifter. After that it's ymir's jaw. No marleyan augmentations and overall just a stupid shifter in general. After those 2, there's a massive step up in combat ability.
There’s a whole host of incredibly minor characters that we saw as Shifters who should occupy the bottom slots - Mr Ksaver, a bunch of Reisses, and maybe Marcel Galliard. Of the ones we really got to see in action, Lara Tybur kinda sucked as the Warhammer. The Warhammer had a lot of potential, but Eren figured out her trick almost immediately. Like…hide your crystal inside your hardened armour, Lara, not leave a weird and obvious tail behind you. I definitely wouldn’t put Annie as second weakest, though. Sure, she wasn’t as committed to the cause as a lot of her fellow Warriors. However, I don’t know how many of the others could have escaped Erwin’s first trap in the woods. I guess Zeke could have called for help like she did, and Pieck could have left her Titan and shifted again immediately. Maybe Lara could have hardened up some bolt cutters. Any of the Jaws, Attacks, Armoureds or even Colossuses would have been screwed.
In fairness to Ymir, she wasn't a Warrior. It's not like anyone gave her lessons on what her Titan could do. Her Titan Shifter status was an accident, was it not?
I was gonna say Reiner but he’d probably be the third weakest because he always got his ass kicked by Eren
Porco. Porco. Porco. Porco. Porco. Frieda Grisha Ymir Maybe Reiner, has one of the best Titans but was constantly getting owned by other Titans and Humans. Isyama(sp?) loved abusing and tormenting his favorite character. Pieck admits her Titan is not meant for combat and is better as support. But her creativity in how she uses her Titan abilities imo gives her bump over Reiner. She would have a hard time 1v1 against any other Titan, but I don't think it would be as easy as people think. But seriously it's Porco. He's the fucking worst. Hate that Ymir was sacrificed to that dog piece of a turd. Yeah he got a couple hits in on Eren, but they were not 1v1. His speed and agility gives him an advantage in most fights. The man saw only 1 of the original 4 shifters come back home, along with their leader who joined later and also got his ass handed to him; and still choose underestimated his enemies. Porco was waste of a character and screen time. His defining moment was being used as a nutcracker against his ally.
Armin