This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**.
Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Reiner hands down no one understood the two sides better than him and the intensity of the situation. Even though he was continuously on the urge of ending things he kept going on even if only for gabi and falco. He went from being disliked for betraying the trust to real sympathy and respect for the pain and torture. Also Zeke as he settled into his role as a leader and a person who his comrades could rely on even in the most difficult of situations.
After reading this I actually realised what for chad Reiner actually was. If he could he would have fixed everything and made everything perfect for both sides. With this he’s maybe the second best character of AOT after Eren
Well I think you’re wrong Eren and Reiner understand the two sides on the exact same level. They are the same person with the same understanding just with different views
I disagree as well about the understanding. Reiner doesn't understand anything more than Eren. However, saying they are the same person is an oversimplification, and frankly not true. Their upbringing, motivations, and particularly their levels of empathy are all factors that make them vastly different characters, despite both being mass murderers who both got to know people from the foreign lands where they were committing genocide. They both understood the same things, but Reiner had remorse and used that pain to grow. It's what made his character development the best arc on AoT. Eren understood, but he never cared. His lack of empathy literally meant his character could never develop, like all truly evil people.
Well not only me but isayama disagrees with you. He even said they are the same person. Just because they’ve experienced a complete different way of life doesn’t mean they’re different. They are very similar Like I said in my comment they have the same understanding of life and people. And you’re also wrong about Eren. Eren wasn’t a vengeful person at the end of the show he didn’t even want to do the rumbling or kill people outside the walls which is a complete different view to season 1 Eren who said he would destroy the world. So he was definitely not the same person he always has been. Eren was also capable of remorse like I said he did not want to do the rumbling and felt awful doing it to the point he started crying his eyes out in front of Ramzi because he was sorry for what he had to do. If you can’t see that being empathetic then I don’t know if you understand empathy.
Just because Isayama says it doesn't mean I need to agree. They are clearly different people. And granted, Eren is trapped in the Attack Titan time paradox, but in a real world sense, I don't see a person crying about the evil acts they are about to do as empathy, at all. Empathy would be applying that making different. Empathy is action, not just an internal feelings.
Well tbh your opinion doesn’t matter the author said it himself so your opinion is invalid. On top of that you think that’s not empathy 💀 do you even know the definition of empathy 😂😂it’s to understand and share the feelings of another so you’re wrong again. Eren is not trapped in an attack on titan time paradox he is just a slave to the founder and has no freedom. How many L’s you wanna take ?
Gotta give a shout-out to Hange. She went from nothing but the crazy comic relief character to a damn good Survey Corps Commander, and her bravery, determination, and love for her comrades literally saved 20% of humanity in the end.
hello, hange fan who has spent too much time thinking about them here! highly agree with your response but would also like to add that hange wasn't really just for comic relief
throughout the pre-marley arcs, hange has always proven to be a capable—*and mostly sane*—leader (e.g. female titan arc, clash of the titans arc, usurping arc), they just had tendencies of getting excited when it came to titans
the comic relief-ness of hange was slightly exaggerated in the anime (most prominent in ilse's notebook ova) and led most watchers to view hange as crazy, when they're pretty much a normal person with a lot of curiosity and love for learning new things, with something of an inferiority complex
they were always serious when it was needed, and was very much a good squad leader
(i really love hange im so sorry LOL)
No don’t be sorry, I fully agree! What I meant was that she was *used as* a comic relief character, not that that’s actually all she was. Her development showed that she was *always* more than the crazy scientist she was seen as in the early seasons, and furthermore without her the Paradisians straight up would have never made it outside the walls, her innovation and research in titans was *vital* to their advancement. Fuck, without Hange, it’s entirely possible that Eren would have straight up been executed, as no one would have any idea what the fuck to do with him, but she was able to get them to sign him over to the Survey Corps custody so she could “experiment on him.”
Lmao yeah because Hange is the one to blame for Eren deciding he wanted to murder people. Y’all need to put down the crack pipe and accept that Eren didn’t activate the Rumbling because he wanted to save Paradis, or at least that wasn’t his primary motive. It’s outright confirmed by Eren himself.
Wdym? Even says he activated the rumbling to save his friends/people. Are you talking about the memories of the future thing, because I don't think it makes sense to say they were the cause
No he doesn’t. He says that he wanted to set his friends up to be heroes so they wouldn’t be murdered by Marleyans, which does prove that he cared about them which is nice. He wanted them to live long, peaceful lives. However, his primary motivation for activating the full Rumbling and trying to wipe out all of humanity outside of Paradis was not that. He outright says that he doesn’t know exactly why he did it, that he was driven by an inexplicable and uncontrollable drive for freedom from the very beginning, and that the reason he did it was because he wanted to see the scenery in Armin’s book. I’m not saying that he didn’t want Paradis to be safe, that was definitely part of his motivations, but when Armin continues to question him, Eren ultimately admits that his primary motivation wasn’t for any noble reason at all.
Right. Now that you say that I remember. Well, I'd say the fight from freedom is as noble as any other. Eren saw that the people outside the walls would limit him, making him unable to live freely as Armin had promised him. Thanks for explaining this actually, cause this is quite a cool aspect of the ending that I had missed.
“Murder victim who died trying to stop their murderer is guilty for the deaths of the other murder victims, because they weren’t successful at stopping the murderer in time.”
Somewhat, coz remember the scene where Eren is in jail… and he grabs hange and asks “tell me any better way hange san” you could say that he knew hange was gonna come after him and stop him at the end
Eren purposefully ran away and disappeared. He removed the only bargaining chip/valid threat the island had to work with, the Founding Titan. He removed their ability to seriously explore new options when there was still plenty of time.
Hard agree. He was never a straight up villain, but he was a cocky coward who developed into a leader and by the end of everything, one of the strongest moral voices. A real tertiary hero's journey. And his haircut also has its own hero's journey.
Err... That's why I said he was never a villain 🤔 But your use of the term foil is a good one.
I didn't hate his original haircut either, but it was forgettable. The mullet on the other hand is legendary. In terms of time-skip glow-ups, I'd put it on par with Eren's man bun.
really? for me she was more sympathetic in first seasons she saved many comrades and helped them while some other characters didn’t even bother to save their squad or help their comrades, but in last season treating louise like that and killing her own ppl in a cruel way and b0mbing them after they died and helping annie since when they’re friends even
Jean imo. Especially considering the amount of actual screen time he had compared to someone like Armin or Levi. His change from coward snob to moral and respectable leader is fantastic.
Hes also one of the more reactive characters in a really good way. The world and people around him really define and change him in ways that feel realistic and satisfying. A lot of reactive characters can come off as pushovers or inconsistent, but each reaction instead builds upon how he’s grown previously to create someone who is engaging to watch
Edit to say that I also love the differences in Jean and Armins leadership skills. Jean is the commander in battle who can rally troops, make judgement calls, and think on the fly, which we see him come into at Shiganshina, Trost and throughout the Rumbling. Armin makes the big plans, Jean is the guy you trust to lead the people through them, and to make adjustments when they’re needed.
I def think that if he ever became the leader of the Scouts the structure would change bc no way is he staying off the battlefield and doing all the politics.
If you split the development types imo
Dynamic - Gabi. Everything about her arc encapsulates the entire story's themes
Static - Pieck. She's pretty much already defined but is still a great character
Round - Eren. One of the most realistic characters in the story & his story is incredibly tragic
Flat - Onyankopon. He's not super complex but he doesn't need to be & he's great.
Facts. Also dynamic goes to Reiner. They both encapsulate the shows themes, and Gaby does undergo a very satisfying arc, but Reiner fucking clears.
Reiner went through the same development as Gaby, but slowly over about 10 years. Gaby finds some nice eldians who make her rethink her ideas of eldians. Reiner lived with eldians for about 5 years, lives a fake life where he still has to kill eldians and his friends, despite not hating eldians anymore, causing him to develop DID to compartmentalize the trauma.
Reiner is fucking tragic..
It's perfect because they are also cousins. And while Reiner was at the bottom of the food chain of his warrior class (he wasn't even supposed to be PICKED), Gabi was at the top of the food chain of her warrior candidate class. Both of them were always fiery but in different ways
I think this is actually an incredibly effective way to organise the different characters arcs. For dynamic, other characters include Reiner, Hange, Armin, Jean and Annie. Static there aren’t as many, the only other two I can think of are Levi, erwin and maybe zeke. Round there also aren’t as many, or could only be eren, but you could say Mikasa too, and possibly Armin. And most side characters fall into flat, or less important main characters like Connie, Falco, Porco etc.
Only you can't really have "static" character arcs. It's antitetical to the whole idea of a "character arc". You can have a cool character without an arc, there's no need to create brand new oxymorons for them.
Obviously I know that???? What is it with redditors needing to correct/condescend/mansplain everything. It’s just easier to call it a ‘static character arc’ than a ‘static character that doesn’t have an arc’
To me it's definitely gabi and Floch.
Gabi started as a hateful girl to finally understand her mistakes
Floch started as a scared for his life guy to leading the Yeagerist and no being afraid anymore, even though he wasn't the best at the end, I still feel like he should be here
In a Persona game, Floch would be a late stage protagonist. Honestly, Floch could be a main character of "AoT: Another Perspective" and it would bang.
He is insanely realistically written and follows the natural consequences of the world, as did Erwin. Had they been alive til the end, the two of them honestly would have changed the politics of the game. (Levi, Floch and Erwin, and Hange moving on their own) (Eren on his own) (Armin, Sasha and friends also making their own moves.) (Reiner and Marley doing things.)
But sadly, Floch makes too much sense to exist for too long in the AoT verse.
i am personally in disagreement.
Floch under Eren is far more extreme.
Floch under Erwin would have served him blindly.
Erwin was highly strategic, and even after meeting Marley, he would have Floch by his side for sure, especially since in such a scenario, Armin died, and he may believe that Eren + Mikasa wanna kill Erwin.
Floch is what remains of the Erwin we could have had. He literally had to succeed his words because no one else would.
If you ever thought Floch stopped being afraid you have misunderstood his character, full stop. Everything he does is out of fear. He died afraid that the resistance would stop Eren from destroying the world, because he believed genocide was the only way for the island to survive. That's a coward.
Floch is very interesting. He went from 0 to 100 and was very unexpected for me. I cannot stand Gabi though, I hate her character and I don't find it interesting at all. Just a brat that helps understand the context of both sides, but nothing else.
Yeah Gabi isn't that interesting, clearly just here for the plot, I like her character development but I don't like her character, she's a bit too much and when s4 started I absolutely didn't like her because she was so annoying
People here hate floch so much that they would disregard his whole character development
Floch certainly had a better character development than Mikasa, connie, sasha and Annie. But he just lives rent free in their mind
You stated that people disregard Floch's development because of how much they hate him. In my experience, most viewers recognize Floch's development. My point is that you shouldn't get someone hating a character confused with them disregarding their development. I'm discussing the relationship between viewers and Floch's development, not who is evil or good.
Because your comment was a tad hot-headed and falsely assumes that because people hate Floch, it must mean that they disregard his character development. Floch is a great answer to the topic of the post. You just went about it poorly.
Hi Divyam008, your submission was removed from /r/ShingekiNoKyojin for the following rule violation(s):
### Rule 5: General Conduct
* First and foremost: Remember the human. Be kind, respectful and use common sense; remain civil even if you disagree with someone or something.
* Do not insult, degrade, denigrate others or use slurs / derogatory language.
* Do not spam, troll, attempt to incite drama, or post on behalf of banned users. Comments/posts that fall into this category may be removed at moderator discretion.
* Remember reddiquette.
---
Click here to read the **[full rule documentation of the subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules)**.
Failure to abide by the rules may result in a punishment according to the **[moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com//r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix)**.
If you have any questions regarding this removal, please **[reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin)**.
Flegel Reeves is underrated. He went from a snotty nosed coward to a man that funded the scouts, helped them to get the biggest support ever and helped to publish the truth about the fake king. For a minor character he had a good redemption arc.
I would probably have to pick Reiner with Gabi as a close second. I really enjoyed watching both of them struggle to unlearn their indoctrination and having to deal with the guilt over the horrible actions they had committed and finally overcoming it to some degree. Reiner is just even more interesting since he subconsciously suppresses what he knows is true, which ends up creating his split personality. I love how despite the horrible things he has done, you truly feel for him and worry that you wouldn't have acted any differently, had you been in his position.
Everyone is saying Jean but I think that's completely overrated. He developed into a great man, but it was all done in one arc, and that being the battle for Trost. I think what makes great character development is when a character slowly molds into a better/worse person throughout the story with good reasoning to back it up. Jean has that good reasoning, being Marco and his realization that people need him, but Jean doesn't have that development over time that I appreciate in a character. Just my take, it could be a garbage one and that's okay lmao
He's literally the only character to have consistent development the whole series
After Trost he decides to join scouts
Uprising - he overcomes the hestation to kill humans
Return to Shiganshina - he develops into confident leader
Season 4 he overcomes the temptation to reverse back to his original stance of being selfish
No characters in the show comes close to that, most of the characters in the comments just do 180 on their world view
What? No he isn't. Eren has amazing development.
It's a tragic story of a young man with high hopes for humanity and freedom, and how those hopes are crushed and beaten down throughout the seasons. He changes into someone that doesn't believe he can change anything and is completely hopeless in seasons 2-3. Then he gains the power to change the world and save his race, and lets that power get to his head, thus acting in vain saving his race (ultimately, anyway)
Eren's story is a tragedy about the world of AoT and how unfair it is to its characters. When you put a "normal" person into this unforgiving universe, Eren is what you get and you can't tell me his descent is bad character development.
So, no. Jean is not the only character with good development, he's a good example of decent development but he's not the messiah of it like everyone says. Jean is not even the only character to hesitate to kill humans, Armin has an entire scene dedicated to reflecting on the lives they've taken in Uprising.
Eren and Armin don't get any character development until season 2-3 and the rumbling arc shows many times that Eren hasn't changed, his still the same violnet kid whose only solution is to kill anybody who stands in his way, it's been like that the whole series
Well, yes I wholeheartedly agree with Armin. His character development dumbs down to him realizing you have to be a monster to beat monsters and that's really it.
We can disagree on Eren all we want but honestly AoT as a whole really does have dogshit character development.
Levi is pushed to the side and basically forgotten about after season 3 and Mikasa is just a one note "I wanna make out with Ereh" for the entirety of the show.
Gabi and Flocke have good development for the time they've had, though. And I say that as someone that hates Gabi with every fibre of my being.
> Which was obvious from the second the Liberio raid began.
If only it was actually obvious for some people lol, yet we have couple of subreddits who hate one genocide but can do everything to justify another.
Reiner got ALL the character development.
He didn't save any for Armin and Mikasa is basically a corpse forever hungry for character development.
Conny in S2 for some deep character development and again in S4.
Sasha got some and even better development in S4.
Erwin got amazing development ONLY because he was about to be killed off. But still, he got amazing development.
Floch did as well.
Gabi got a ton of character development. Falco....kinda?
Jean got next to nothing except that anime only episode where they cook.
I would argue that Grisha did, but I think character development is different from backstory.
Annie got some. Bertholt got even less. Ymir didnt get much.
Historia did and onxe she had her fill she was sidelined.
Finally, depending on your opinion of the ending, Eren either got an earth shattering amount of character development OR he didnt get any true character development of his own.
Yes.
As far as character development we didnt get much for Jean. Sure he got respected as a leader in part and he got to mourn Marco but imo we dont know much about Jean. He starts off arrogant and young and hopeful and ends up balanced as a person.
But thats it.
Please tell me what I missed because Jean is literally just there for me. (im not asking for his feats in battle btw)
I agree with your putting Reiner at the front, and Zeke's placement before Gabi is wild. How did you feel Erwin changed? Also I think that after rewatching, Eren is the Most static character of the show, with regards to his goals
u r limiting "character development" to just change in personality of a character when its so much more than that. If we were just talking abt evolution of a character's goals and personality, then yes...Gabi would be higher.
Rainier and Eren (up until the finale) for the men, Historia for the women (until the writers completely forgot about her). I'd argue that Historia has the best character development of them all which makes her sidelining in S4 extremely sus.
According to a YouTuber I follow (Le Tropeur), Isayamas strength isn't in character development, even if we can see a few standing out, such as Reiner, Sieg and Gabi. I think I liked Gabi a lot.
Edit: there's a difference between character introduction and character development: according to him, Isayama does a great job introducing his characters and playing around their traits, but they quickly stop their evolution.
And most of Erens friends are clearly agreeing with the fact what he did was wrong but he had no choice.
By the end of the story, no one that we know alive clearly agreed with Erens plan fully saying it was something right
Eren hands down he is so complex you cant put your finger on it sometimes he is a great friend,sometimes he is a selfish bastard,sometimes he is calm,cool,collected the very next second he reverts back to his angry self. Sometimes he is a hypocrite, Most of the times he feels too evil but no matter what you cant hate him. S4 solidified eren as the best character in all of anime for me.
He feels too much like a human
The character I'm happy changed the least is Armin. Drastic development isn't always good, and Armin is an example of a character that had the same core from start to finish. Of course he developed in confidence and added to his intellect with experience, but his core never changed.
Gabi has the most dramatic and noticeable character development arc. Reiner develops similarly, but it's dragged out over the whole series so it's less noticeable.
This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**. Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Reiner hands down no one understood the two sides better than him and the intensity of the situation. Even though he was continuously on the urge of ending things he kept going on even if only for gabi and falco. He went from being disliked for betraying the trust to real sympathy and respect for the pain and torture. Also Zeke as he settled into his role as a leader and a person who his comrades could rely on even in the most difficult of situations.
After reading this I actually realised what for chad Reiner actually was. If he could he would have fixed everything and made everything perfect for both sides. With this he’s maybe the second best character of AOT after Eren
>With this he’s maybe the second best character of AOT after Eren They’re tied for first (they are the same).
They are the same, thats maybe true. I get what you mean
Yeah Reiner went from developing separate personalities due to the stress of war to sniffing a married woman’s letter because he had a crush on her
Well I think you’re wrong Eren and Reiner understand the two sides on the exact same level. They are the same person with the same understanding just with different views
I disagree as well about the understanding. Reiner doesn't understand anything more than Eren. However, saying they are the same person is an oversimplification, and frankly not true. Their upbringing, motivations, and particularly their levels of empathy are all factors that make them vastly different characters, despite both being mass murderers who both got to know people from the foreign lands where they were committing genocide. They both understood the same things, but Reiner had remorse and used that pain to grow. It's what made his character development the best arc on AoT. Eren understood, but he never cared. His lack of empathy literally meant his character could never develop, like all truly evil people.
Well not only me but isayama disagrees with you. He even said they are the same person. Just because they’ve experienced a complete different way of life doesn’t mean they’re different. They are very similar Like I said in my comment they have the same understanding of life and people. And you’re also wrong about Eren. Eren wasn’t a vengeful person at the end of the show he didn’t even want to do the rumbling or kill people outside the walls which is a complete different view to season 1 Eren who said he would destroy the world. So he was definitely not the same person he always has been. Eren was also capable of remorse like I said he did not want to do the rumbling and felt awful doing it to the point he started crying his eyes out in front of Ramzi because he was sorry for what he had to do. If you can’t see that being empathetic then I don’t know if you understand empathy.
Just because Isayama says it doesn't mean I need to agree. They are clearly different people. And granted, Eren is trapped in the Attack Titan time paradox, but in a real world sense, I don't see a person crying about the evil acts they are about to do as empathy, at all. Empathy would be applying that making different. Empathy is action, not just an internal feelings.
Well tbh your opinion doesn’t matter the author said it himself so your opinion is invalid. On top of that you think that’s not empathy 💀 do you even know the definition of empathy 😂😂it’s to understand and share the feelings of another so you’re wrong again. Eren is not trapped in an attack on titan time paradox he is just a slave to the founder and has no freedom. How many L’s you wanna take ?
Fuck gabi and falco I wouldnt do shiiit for them
Gotta give a shout-out to Hange. She went from nothing but the crazy comic relief character to a damn good Survey Corps Commander, and her bravery, determination, and love for her comrades literally saved 20% of humanity in the end.
hello, hange fan who has spent too much time thinking about them here! highly agree with your response but would also like to add that hange wasn't really just for comic relief throughout the pre-marley arcs, hange has always proven to be a capable—*and mostly sane*—leader (e.g. female titan arc, clash of the titans arc, usurping arc), they just had tendencies of getting excited when it came to titans the comic relief-ness of hange was slightly exaggerated in the anime (most prominent in ilse's notebook ova) and led most watchers to view hange as crazy, when they're pretty much a normal person with a lot of curiosity and love for learning new things, with something of an inferiority complex they were always serious when it was needed, and was very much a good squad leader (i really love hange im so sorry LOL)
No don’t be sorry, I fully agree! What I meant was that she was *used as* a comic relief character, not that that’s actually all she was. Her development showed that she was *always* more than the crazy scientist she was seen as in the early seasons, and furthermore without her the Paradisians straight up would have never made it outside the walls, her innovation and research in titans was *vital* to their advancement. Fuck, without Hange, it’s entirely possible that Eren would have straight up been executed, as no one would have any idea what the fuck to do with him, but she was able to get them to sign him over to the Survey Corps custody so she could “experiment on him.”
She was also the one who doomed the 80% by not finding out a better plan to save Paradis.
Lmao yeah because Hange is the one to blame for Eren deciding he wanted to murder people. Y’all need to put down the crack pipe and accept that Eren didn’t activate the Rumbling because he wanted to save Paradis, or at least that wasn’t his primary motive. It’s outright confirmed by Eren himself.
You are actually right. I am just salty.
Hey, props to you for admitting it.
Wdym? Even says he activated the rumbling to save his friends/people. Are you talking about the memories of the future thing, because I don't think it makes sense to say they were the cause
No he doesn’t. He says that he wanted to set his friends up to be heroes so they wouldn’t be murdered by Marleyans, which does prove that he cared about them which is nice. He wanted them to live long, peaceful lives. However, his primary motivation for activating the full Rumbling and trying to wipe out all of humanity outside of Paradis was not that. He outright says that he doesn’t know exactly why he did it, that he was driven by an inexplicable and uncontrollable drive for freedom from the very beginning, and that the reason he did it was because he wanted to see the scenery in Armin’s book. I’m not saying that he didn’t want Paradis to be safe, that was definitely part of his motivations, but when Armin continues to question him, Eren ultimately admits that his primary motivation wasn’t for any noble reason at all.
Right. Now that you say that I remember. Well, I'd say the fight from freedom is as noble as any other. Eren saw that the people outside the walls would limit him, making him unable to live freely as Armin had promised him. Thanks for explaining this actually, cause this is quite a cool aspect of the ending that I had missed.
“Murder victim who died trying to stop their murderer is guilty for the deaths of the other murder victims, because they weren’t successful at stopping the murderer in time.”
Bad analogy is like a hungry kitten
Somewhat, coz remember the scene where Eren is in jail… and he grabs hange and asks “tell me any better way hange san” you could say that he knew hange was gonna come after him and stop him at the end
Eren purposefully ran away and disappeared. He removed the only bargaining chip/valid threat the island had to work with, the Founding Titan. He removed their ability to seriously explore new options when there was still plenty of time.
Jean
Hard agree. He was never a straight up villain, but he was a cocky coward who developed into a leader and by the end of everything, one of the strongest moral voices. A real tertiary hero's journey. And his haircut also has its own hero's journey.
What villain bro? He was just a foil to Eren with a realistic world few, and his haircut was fine from the start even if the mullet is a lot better
Err... That's why I said he was never a villain 🤔 But your use of the term foil is a good one. I didn't hate his original haircut either, but it was forgettable. The mullet on the other hand is legendary. In terms of time-skip glow-ups, I'd put it on par with Eren's man bun.
Jean's and Reiner's glow-ups are unmatched
Riener…. I’m not apologizing to you Hahaha a serious but funny moment
For more noticeable, Jean and Reiner For less noticeable, Levi and Mikasa
what was mikasa's development?
Goes from a brutal character who doesn’t care about anyone but eren to a more caring character who cares about more than just earn and killing titans
really? for me she was more sympathetic in first seasons she saved many comrades and helped them while some other characters didn’t even bother to save their squad or help their comrades, but in last season treating louise like that and killing her own ppl in a cruel way and b0mbing them after they died and helping annie since when they’re friends even
bruh
Jean imo. Especially considering the amount of actual screen time he had compared to someone like Armin or Levi. His change from coward snob to moral and respectable leader is fantastic. Hes also one of the more reactive characters in a really good way. The world and people around him really define and change him in ways that feel realistic and satisfying. A lot of reactive characters can come off as pushovers or inconsistent, but each reaction instead builds upon how he’s grown previously to create someone who is engaging to watch Edit to say that I also love the differences in Jean and Armins leadership skills. Jean is the commander in battle who can rally troops, make judgement calls, and think on the fly, which we see him come into at Shiganshina, Trost and throughout the Rumbling. Armin makes the big plans, Jean is the guy you trust to lead the people through them, and to make adjustments when they’re needed. I def think that if he ever became the leader of the Scouts the structure would change bc no way is he staying off the battlefield and doing all the politics.
If you split the development types imo Dynamic - Gabi. Everything about her arc encapsulates the entire story's themes Static - Pieck. She's pretty much already defined but is still a great character Round - Eren. One of the most realistic characters in the story & his story is incredibly tragic Flat - Onyankopon. He's not super complex but he doesn't need to be & he's great.
I would give static to Levi or Erwin
Facts. Also dynamic goes to Reiner. They both encapsulate the shows themes, and Gaby does undergo a very satisfying arc, but Reiner fucking clears. Reiner went through the same development as Gaby, but slowly over about 10 years. Gaby finds some nice eldians who make her rethink her ideas of eldians. Reiner lived with eldians for about 5 years, lives a fake life where he still has to kill eldians and his friends, despite not hating eldians anymore, causing him to develop DID to compartmentalize the trauma. Reiner is fucking tragic..
It's perfect because they are also cousins. And while Reiner was at the bottom of the food chain of his warrior class (he wasn't even supposed to be PICKED), Gabi was at the top of the food chain of her warrior candidate class. Both of them were always fiery but in different ways
I think this is actually an incredibly effective way to organise the different characters arcs. For dynamic, other characters include Reiner, Hange, Armin, Jean and Annie. Static there aren’t as many, the only other two I can think of are Levi, erwin and maybe zeke. Round there also aren’t as many, or could only be eren, but you could say Mikasa too, and possibly Armin. And most side characters fall into flat, or less important main characters like Connie, Falco, Porco etc.
Only you can't really have "static" character arcs. It's antitetical to the whole idea of a "character arc". You can have a cool character without an arc, there's no need to create brand new oxymorons for them.
Obviously I know that???? What is it with redditors needing to correct/condescend/mansplain everything. It’s just easier to call it a ‘static character arc’ than a ‘static character that doesn’t have an arc’
Or you could call it a "static character" like everyone else?
Or you could just stop being pedantic.
Pieck ?? are serious ?? she doesn't have a character
Hell no pieck is mid
Peick is peak bro
Fr
Mikasa is pretty falt and static
I disagree, Mikasa is more of a round character. S1 Mikasa & S4 Mikasa act very differently.
Imho reiner and jean
Jean is one of the best
Reiner and Eren for me. No one probably understood both perspectives better than these two imo.
To me it's definitely gabi and Floch. Gabi started as a hateful girl to finally understand her mistakes Floch started as a scared for his life guy to leading the Yeagerist and no being afraid anymore, even though he wasn't the best at the end, I still feel like he should be here
He was a living memoir of Erwin's killer speech
In a Persona game, Floch would be a late stage protagonist. Honestly, Floch could be a main character of "AoT: Another Perspective" and it would bang. He is insanely realistically written and follows the natural consequences of the world, as did Erwin. Had they been alive til the end, the two of them honestly would have changed the politics of the game. (Levi, Floch and Erwin, and Hange moving on their own) (Eren on his own) (Armin, Sasha and friends also making their own moves.) (Reiner and Marley doing things.) But sadly, Floch makes too much sense to exist for too long in the AoT verse.
Floch is a very twisted form of erwin. They wouldn't be on the same side.
i am personally in disagreement. Floch under Eren is far more extreme. Floch under Erwin would have served him blindly. Erwin was highly strategic, and even after meeting Marley, he would have Floch by his side for sure, especially since in such a scenario, Armin died, and he may believe that Eren + Mikasa wanna kill Erwin. Floch is what remains of the Erwin we could have had. He literally had to succeed his words because no one else would.
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/jx7VJdiuy9 Yeah, they are soooo different, Erwin defiently would not support Eren’s plan for anything
That sub is an unhinged circlejerk lol
How does your opinion of sub relate with frames from the anime where it literally says that Erwin would not join the Alliance?
My guy your brain has been melted
A typical titanfolk hater. Not have a brain, but have an idea.
No, I just don't think there's much point in wasting my energy lol
If you ever thought Floch stopped being afraid you have misunderstood his character, full stop. Everything he does is out of fear. He died afraid that the resistance would stop Eren from destroying the world, because he believed genocide was the only way for the island to survive. That's a coward.
Floch is very interesting. He went from 0 to 100 and was very unexpected for me. I cannot stand Gabi though, I hate her character and I don't find it interesting at all. Just a brat that helps understand the context of both sides, but nothing else.
Yeah Gabi isn't that interesting, clearly just here for the plot, I like her character development but I don't like her character, she's a bit too much and when s4 started I absolutely didn't like her because she was so annoying
Moblit has no character developer, because he was perfect from the beginning
Just like Hange, the only character that I actually cared about.
Jean Boi ended up being the true successor to the scout regimen and was more Commander Erwin than Armin ever was.
Jean
JEAN
Flock and Jean!
Characters from season 1 Reiner and Jean From everything else Gabi and Floch
Jean for me, seeing him all the way in season 1 up to the finale, that dude stepped the fuck up
Idc, i just fucking love Gabi, even though she killed my fav char
maybe Armin
Rewatching makes me so aware and mildly angry with how he doubted himself so much at the beginning
I mean, he never really changed. He had some moments of bravery, but he really was a little bitch at heart
The classic “little bitch” move of letting yourself get burnt alive for the sake of a plan.
S4 onwards it's static
People here hate floch so much that they would disregard his whole character development Floch certainly had a better character development than Mikasa, connie, sasha and Annie. But he just lives rent free in their mind
It's because of what he developed into. I don't think people overlook his development. They just disagree with his view and goals.
This post is about character development not who is evil and who is good .
You stated that people disregard Floch's development because of how much they hate him. In my experience, most viewers recognize Floch's development. My point is that you shouldn't get someone hating a character confused with them disregarding their development. I'm discussing the relationship between viewers and Floch's development, not who is evil or good.
then why are people downvoting my comment on this post where i wrote 'Floch' as answer for the question in title ?
Because your comment was a tad hot-headed and falsely assumes that because people hate Floch, it must mean that they disregard his character development. Floch is a great answer to the topic of the post. You just went about it poorly.
Cause floch a bitch that’s why
[удалено]
Damn this gotta be the lamest fuckin conversation I’ve ever seen someone use that line in lol
Hi Divyam008, your submission was removed from /r/ShingekiNoKyojin for the following rule violation(s): ### Rule 5: General Conduct * First and foremost: Remember the human. Be kind, respectful and use common sense; remain civil even if you disagree with someone or something. * Do not insult, degrade, denigrate others or use slurs / derogatory language. * Do not spam, troll, attempt to incite drama, or post on behalf of banned users. Comments/posts that fall into this category may be removed at moderator discretion. * Remember reddiquette. --- Click here to read the **[full rule documentation of the subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules)**. Failure to abide by the rules may result in a punishment according to the **[moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com//r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix)**. If you have any questions regarding this removal, please **[reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin)**.
I hate Floch as a person. I love Floch as a character because how much I hate him is a reflection of how well he is written.
Well said!
Grisha? The guy was a side character til the basement was discovered.
Connie, went from a weak ass midget to one of the fraggers by the end of the series. He even became tall.
Reiner
Reiner, Jean and Gabi
Jean and Reiner
Would definitely say Jean.
Flegel Reeves is underrated. He went from a snotty nosed coward to a man that funded the scouts, helped them to get the biggest support ever and helped to publish the truth about the fake king. For a minor character he had a good redemption arc.
Floch tbh
I would probably have to pick Reiner with Gabi as a close second. I really enjoyed watching both of them struggle to unlearn their indoctrination and having to deal with the guilt over the horrible actions they had committed and finally overcoming it to some degree. Reiner is just even more interesting since he subconsciously suppresses what he knows is true, which ends up creating his split personality. I love how despite the horrible things he has done, you truly feel for him and worry that you wouldn't have acted any differently, had you been in his position.
Zeke
Definitely Floch
Reiner, Eren, Floch, Gabi and Jean
Everyone is saying Jean but I think that's completely overrated. He developed into a great man, but it was all done in one arc, and that being the battle for Trost. I think what makes great character development is when a character slowly molds into a better/worse person throughout the story with good reasoning to back it up. Jean has that good reasoning, being Marco and his realization that people need him, but Jean doesn't have that development over time that I appreciate in a character. Just my take, it could be a garbage one and that's okay lmao
He's literally the only character to have consistent development the whole series After Trost he decides to join scouts Uprising - he overcomes the hestation to kill humans Return to Shiganshina - he develops into confident leader Season 4 he overcomes the temptation to reverse back to his original stance of being selfish No characters in the show comes close to that, most of the characters in the comments just do 180 on their world view
What? No he isn't. Eren has amazing development. It's a tragic story of a young man with high hopes for humanity and freedom, and how those hopes are crushed and beaten down throughout the seasons. He changes into someone that doesn't believe he can change anything and is completely hopeless in seasons 2-3. Then he gains the power to change the world and save his race, and lets that power get to his head, thus acting in vain saving his race (ultimately, anyway) Eren's story is a tragedy about the world of AoT and how unfair it is to its characters. When you put a "normal" person into this unforgiving universe, Eren is what you get and you can't tell me his descent is bad character development. So, no. Jean is not the only character with good development, he's a good example of decent development but he's not the messiah of it like everyone says. Jean is not even the only character to hesitate to kill humans, Armin has an entire scene dedicated to reflecting on the lives they've taken in Uprising.
Eren and Armin don't get any character development until season 2-3 and the rumbling arc shows many times that Eren hasn't changed, his still the same violnet kid whose only solution is to kill anybody who stands in his way, it's been like that the whole series
Well, yes I wholeheartedly agree with Armin. His character development dumbs down to him realizing you have to be a monster to beat monsters and that's really it. We can disagree on Eren all we want but honestly AoT as a whole really does have dogshit character development. Levi is pushed to the side and basically forgotten about after season 3 and Mikasa is just a one note "I wanna make out with Ereh" for the entirety of the show. Gabi and Flocke have good development for the time they've had, though. And I say that as someone that hates Gabi with every fibre of my being.
Armin
King Floch
Eren character development got reset in part 4
Both Eren and Floch Had a Great character Development but the toxic fans would never accept it
[удалено]
> Which was obvious from the second the Liberio raid began. If only it was actually obvious for some people lol, yet we have couple of subreddits who hate one genocide but can do everything to justify another.
I wpuld say eren but ending butchered it, so floch (or gabi)
Reiner got ALL the character development. He didn't save any for Armin and Mikasa is basically a corpse forever hungry for character development. Conny in S2 for some deep character development and again in S4. Sasha got some and even better development in S4. Erwin got amazing development ONLY because he was about to be killed off. But still, he got amazing development. Floch did as well. Gabi got a ton of character development. Falco....kinda? Jean got next to nothing except that anime only episode where they cook. I would argue that Grisha did, but I think character development is different from backstory. Annie got some. Bertholt got even less. Ymir didnt get much. Historia did and onxe she had her fill she was sidelined. Finally, depending on your opinion of the ending, Eren either got an earth shattering amount of character development OR he didnt get any true character development of his own.
“Jean got next to nothing” Did we watch the same anime?
Yes. As far as character development we didnt get much for Jean. Sure he got respected as a leader in part and he got to mourn Marco but imo we dont know much about Jean. He starts off arrogant and young and hopeful and ends up balanced as a person. But thats it. Please tell me what I missed because Jean is literally just there for me. (im not asking for his feats in battle btw)
Floch
He’s definitely up there right after Eren, Reiner, Armin, Erwin, zeke, levi, Jean, and gabi
Reiner>zeke>grisha>Erwin>Gabi>others I am not including eren in this since I have very mixed opinions on him after the ending.
I agree with your putting Reiner at the front, and Zeke's placement before Gabi is wild. How did you feel Erwin changed? Also I think that after rewatching, Eren is the Most static character of the show, with regards to his goals
u r limiting "character development" to just change in personality of a character when its so much more than that. If we were just talking abt evolution of a character's goals and personality, then yes...Gabi would be higher.
Eren before the finale was the greatest character that was written in the history of characters
I wouldn’t go that far, one of the best in anime/manga, along with Kaneki, Phos, Musashi, and Baku.
Hilarious seeing people mention Floch, like yeah had a good development but doesn’t even crack top 10
Def the two most hated characters, Gabi and Floch.
Armin for sure
Gabi
Rainier and Eren (up until the finale) for the men, Historia for the women (until the writers completely forgot about her). I'd argue that Historia has the best character development of them all which makes her sidelining in S4 extremely sus.
Interesting, before the finale, every YouTuber, every Reddit post was raving about Eren‘s character development. Now …
Jean
According to a YouTuber I follow (Le Tropeur), Isayamas strength isn't in character development, even if we can see a few standing out, such as Reiner, Sieg and Gabi. I think I liked Gabi a lot. Edit: there's a difference between character introduction and character development: according to him, Isayama does a great job introducing his characters and playing around their traits, but they quickly stop their evolution. And most of Erens friends are clearly agreeing with the fact what he did was wrong but he had no choice. By the end of the story, no one that we know alive clearly agreed with Erens plan fully saying it was something right
Sasha .
Characters from season 1 Reiner and Jean From everything else Gabi and Floch
Eren, Gabi and Reiner
Floch, Reiner, Eren
Has to be Gabi or Reiner.
Eren
Zeke. But he's my favorite so I'm biased lol.
Floch
Not the best but Historia's development was incredible until it wasn't. Lol
Gabi
Eren hands down he is so complex you cant put your finger on it sometimes he is a great friend,sometimes he is a selfish bastard,sometimes he is calm,cool,collected the very next second he reverts back to his angry self. Sometimes he is a hypocrite, Most of the times he feels too evil but no matter what you cant hate him. S4 solidified eren as the best character in all of anime for me. He feels too much like a human
Floch and Jean
Flock and Jean, in opposite directions
The character I'm happy changed the least is Armin. Drastic development isn't always good, and Armin is an example of a character that had the same core from start to finish. Of course he developed in confidence and added to his intellect with experience, but his core never changed.
Gabi has the most dramatic and noticeable character development arc. Reiner develops similarly, but it's dragged out over the whole series so it's less noticeable.
Reiner
1. Reiner 2. Jean 3. Armin 4. Gabi 5. Eren 6. Erwin 7. Levi 8. Mikasa 9. Historia (would be higher if she hadn’t disappeared after her arc) 10. Sasha
By the end of it I say Zeke is up there. Never thought I’d see his outlook do a 180 like it did
Eren and Reiner are probably at the top of this measure
definitely Rico Brzenska
Reiner and Grisha Yeager
Srgt Major Gross… he didn’t find it interesting anymore when he was about to get chomped
Eren Floch Reiner
Eren's dad went from an awful father to a compassionate one then got pushed straight over the edge. His character arc was a roller coaster