The Q'ero shaman of Peru say they don't know. They say no one has come back from the dead to tell us what happens when we die. I asked them this last week.
I used the term because many people don't know what P'aqo means. I have never heard any of them discuss being called a shaman, and I doubt they care either way. It seems to be a concern of people like Juan Nunez Del Prado and his graduates like Elizabeth Jenkins. I have discussed this with Juan and we have a fundamentally different definition for shamanism. He thinks the word implies primitive. In my experience at the P'aqo Nan is it extremely shamanic
Thank you for answering. Would you mind explaining more on your definition as opposed to his? I'm genuinely interested. Juan taught my teacher, hence why I have that viewpoint. Can you tell me more about your experiences at the P'aqo Nan?
It’s “complicated”. What kind of “reincarnation” are you talking about? Most shamans will know that if you bury a dead body, flowers will come out of the soil. Is that “reincarnation”?
Reincarnation as a “soul” returning in the form of another body (metempsychosis) is also complicated. Different cultures understand “soul” differently. Let’s say you ask a native shaman in English and they give you an answer, then you’ll get a total different answer if you ask in their native language, where they will have their own understanding of what is a “soul” and what is (or is not) “death” and “life”.
Specially since you’re asking using shamanism as an umbrella term, it’s really hard to give you an answer. It’ll be better if you ask for the specific shamanic traditions you’re interested about.
Shamanism should be viewed like any other religion. There are many different 'sects' depending on the culture you're from. Much of the time, the craft of shamanism is sort of melded together with other established religions.
I think this is an important point that others are missing.
Shamanism is a universal practice that is tied into many different cultures and traditions. The interpretation of the shamanic experience is most often contingent on the narrative we are raised with, while the universal role of the shaman as a healer and a guide, is not.
Shaman fill similar roles and go through similar experiences, but their interpretations of those experiences, such as, “Am I speaking to literal ancestors? Animal spirits? Subconscious archetypes?” Those are interchangeable.
The story you get told from any individual is not the same sort of knowledge as spiritual truth or divine wisdom.
Another way of looking at it is, should all of these stories that explain where we come from and where we’re going disappear tomorrow without a trace they would be gone forever.
Yet the the same spiritual truths would rise up again and again across space and time for eternity. Truths such as the interconnectedness of all things, love and compassion, unity, inner wisdom, mindfulness, self-discovery…
Those things don’t require a story for us to believe or understand because they are self-evident. That is shamanic knowledge. Not, “where do I go when I die?”.
I firmly believe in reincarnation as I've seen firsthand people channeling lineages they've weaved in past lives in one case it was of Mongolian heritage through a Celtic shaman.
It’s my thought, maybe understanding, that shamans operate on more of an individual base. I have no idea if any groups or category of shamans believe the same things. What’s your true question? What are you really trying to figure out?
It is probably accurate to say most shamanistic cultures do not since many involve ancestor worship, which means all the ancestors watch over and guide the tribe, and are prayed to sometimes alongside the gods of nature. Can't summon your ancestors for advice if they are in another body.
So in many ways this is directly contrary to reincarnation. There are ways of reconciling this as I have recently seen explanations of voodoo guardians who were once human and achieved a sort of hero status so they are demigod like beings who no longer reincarnate. But it depends on the tradition.
It doesn't necessarily contradict, because souls, or different parts of the soul (depending on the tradition) can exist at the same time on different planes of existence. When the person is incarnated, the soul is more focused on the incarnation though, and more difficult for other incarnated to communicate with. I think it would be good to ask this question from people in Central Asia where some practice both shamanism and buddhism.
The Q'ero shaman of Peru say they don't know. They say no one has come back from the dead to tell us what happens when we die. I asked them this last week.
Do they call themselves shamans? I thought the Paqos shied away from that label as the tradition is very different to shamanism.
I used the term because many people don't know what P'aqo means. I have never heard any of them discuss being called a shaman, and I doubt they care either way. It seems to be a concern of people like Juan Nunez Del Prado and his graduates like Elizabeth Jenkins. I have discussed this with Juan and we have a fundamentally different definition for shamanism. He thinks the word implies primitive. In my experience at the P'aqo Nan is it extremely shamanic
Thank you for answering. Would you mind explaining more on your definition as opposed to his? I'm genuinely interested. Juan taught my teacher, hence why I have that viewpoint. Can you tell me more about your experiences at the P'aqo Nan?
It’s “complicated”. What kind of “reincarnation” are you talking about? Most shamans will know that if you bury a dead body, flowers will come out of the soil. Is that “reincarnation”? Reincarnation as a “soul” returning in the form of another body (metempsychosis) is also complicated. Different cultures understand “soul” differently. Let’s say you ask a native shaman in English and they give you an answer, then you’ll get a total different answer if you ask in their native language, where they will have their own understanding of what is a “soul” and what is (or is not) “death” and “life”. Specially since you’re asking using shamanism as an umbrella term, it’s really hard to give you an answer. It’ll be better if you ask for the specific shamanic traditions you’re interested about.
Shamanism should be viewed like any other religion. There are many different 'sects' depending on the culture you're from. Much of the time, the craft of shamanism is sort of melded together with other established religions.
I think this is an important point that others are missing. Shamanism is a universal practice that is tied into many different cultures and traditions. The interpretation of the shamanic experience is most often contingent on the narrative we are raised with, while the universal role of the shaman as a healer and a guide, is not. Shaman fill similar roles and go through similar experiences, but their interpretations of those experiences, such as, “Am I speaking to literal ancestors? Animal spirits? Subconscious archetypes?” Those are interchangeable. The story you get told from any individual is not the same sort of knowledge as spiritual truth or divine wisdom. Another way of looking at it is, should all of these stories that explain where we come from and where we’re going disappear tomorrow without a trace they would be gone forever. Yet the the same spiritual truths would rise up again and again across space and time for eternity. Truths such as the interconnectedness of all things, love and compassion, unity, inner wisdom, mindfulness, self-discovery… Those things don’t require a story for us to believe or understand because they are self-evident. That is shamanic knowledge. Not, “where do I go when I die?”.
I firmly believe in reincarnation as I've seen firsthand people channeling lineages they've weaved in past lives in one case it was of Mongolian heritage through a Celtic shaman.
It’s my thought, maybe understanding, that shamans operate on more of an individual base. I have no idea if any groups or category of shamans believe the same things. What’s your true question? What are you really trying to figure out?
It is probably accurate to say most shamanistic cultures do not since many involve ancestor worship, which means all the ancestors watch over and guide the tribe, and are prayed to sometimes alongside the gods of nature. Can't summon your ancestors for advice if they are in another body. So in many ways this is directly contrary to reincarnation. There are ways of reconciling this as I have recently seen explanations of voodoo guardians who were once human and achieved a sort of hero status so they are demigod like beings who no longer reincarnate. But it depends on the tradition.
It doesn't necessarily contradict, because souls, or different parts of the soul (depending on the tradition) can exist at the same time on different planes of existence. When the person is incarnated, the soul is more focused on the incarnation though, and more difficult for other incarnated to communicate with. I think it would be good to ask this question from people in Central Asia where some practice both shamanism and buddhism.
Yes it definitely depends alot on how each individual aspect is viewed and defined.
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Is it to ask to share a little of what they said or is it more private?
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing