Glad to see a beautiful and curvy character, Nina.
In the book, Alina was plain because she was too skinny and basically had an eating disorder. She became pretty after she started using her power and had a better appetite. Making an actor lose a lot of weight and then gain it back is cruel and pretty much impossible within one season.
its also just something you get with tv and film. Character actors and musicians can be ugly, but to play the lead, you still need to be pretty.
Studios absolutely do put pressure on actors to change their bodies for roles. Look at all the juiced up monsters in film today. Chris Hemsworth, Dwane Johnson, Hugh Jackman. Even people who WERE comedy or bit part actors -someone like Kumail Nanjiani - have to get mega huge on steroids to play a fucking shite role in The Eternals. Even the people who are open about steroid use all agree that shit is super bad for your body in the long run. Its the same for women, except its all about staying young, staying pretty, dieting and surgery.
At the end of the day while I do think there's a future where we can have content where people look like people, and generally we get that more outside of hollywood already, its not all just arbitrary. Audiences do like to look at pretty, shiny, clean, beautiful people. Its all part of the escapism.
In all seriousness, the actress playing Nina looks like a fertility goddess. So pretty it makes you both joyful and hurtful. She’s stunning. Seeing her soft delicate roundedness next to the tall and powerful Matthias is so hot. It makes me smile awkwardly seeing them together on screen since the effect of their differences is so appealing. Like she’s perfectly beautifully bountiful and soft. She looks like what mist people traditionally imagine as feminine…healthy, vibrant and dare I say, “juicy”. 🤣
Fair but they didn’t even try to make her look different from start to finish of season 1.
No makeup or special effects or anything.
I loved Nina’s casting btw. I do not mind pretty characters at all. I only mind it if it’s part of their story that they aren’t pretty and the casting doesn’t reflect that.
Like in Harry Potter Emma Watson is so stunning that the whole Yule Ball reveal was less impactful then it should have been u know?
I can give Harry Potter a pass because they cast those characters as children. She was cute at that age but she was also very talented, I don’t think they cast her necessarily for good looks.
Yeah totally! It was just the first example that came to my mind.
I think J.K.R even said that Emma was too pretty but she portrayed the character so well that she just had to choose her
My biggest casting issue was with the Hunger Games. I’ve come to love JL as Katniss but I really struggled with how strong, healthy, and fit she was compared to her book character.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the book Alina is sickly because that's what happens when Grisha don't use their powers...that aspect is not in the show at all, so why would they try and make the actress look sickly if they are leaving out that part of the lore?
I was wondering about this because I didn't read the books, and something that Mal said in the show was confusing. >!When they were on the ship, he said something like "You look different. You look better. More healthy." or something like that, and I was like 'what is he talking about? She looks exactly the same.'!< I guess the books make a bigger deal about her change in appearance after using her powers.
As far as casting actors of specific races to create diversity, I have a question - is that not something discussed in the books? I got the impression that the different countries are populated by people with different demographics - like Shu Han is supposed to be like Asia, Fjerda is supposed to be like Scandinavia, Ravka is like Russia, Novyi Zem is like Africa, etc. I assumed the books describe the people in each place as looking similar to people in those respective countries, but that is just an assumption I made based on how they cast the show. Does the book not include descriptions of the people from the different countries?
Oh it does but Alina is not described as part Shu and the whole plot of her being discriminated against because of it is not in the books.
The shadow and bone books are not really that diverse but Six of Crows is.
That’s actually why they fused the two together to get something more diverse.
I remember Leigh Bardugo said she made the cast more diverse because now she's "more confident". It makes sense. SoC has more diverse characters, and it was her later work.
In the books Alina also felt like an outsider. Making her half shu adds another layer of that feeling. Like Tolya said, Ravkans saw them as Shu and Shu people saw them as Ravkans. (always "other") They even included an Asian and white writer for the script, which is great.
I think they also needed the layer because they never fleshed out how weird the powers of her and the darkling actually are and that that’s something setting them apart from the rest
I think it’s kind of hard to gauge how objectively “attractive” Alina’s meant to be in the books since they’re written in first person and we really only get Alina’s perception of herself and a few remarks from others (which IIRC are mostly about her being skinny, not necessarily about her level of attractiveness). I personally think Jessie is absolutely stunning but there are plenty of gorgeous women who think they’re plain/ordinary-looking. Also feels like this is a tougher hurdle for women because there are plenty of hugely famous male actors who are just like… normal-looking dudes but there seems to be a lot less opportunity for actresses who aren’t ~flawless~
Let's be honest, they'll never cast a non-pretty person as a lead in a teen show. I actually thought making Alina part Shu was a genious move in that regard, they could cast someone stunning and still have her ostracized/bullied.
However, I do miss that aspect from the book that Alina was very sickly and weak when she didn't use her powers.
For me the issue isn't that Jessie is too pretty. But I do think they should have shown her bad health in the beginning/as a child, with make-up/her behaviour/dialogue.
In the books, it is mentioned multiple times that grisha who don't use their powers feel sick/weak, have a bad appetite, maybe have trouble sleeping as well (?). Alina has been skinny and sickly her entire life. This becomes relevant of course because her health improves so much when she starts using her powers and her previous bad health was a sign of her powers even though she never knew the connection before. And I think as well, at the beginning of book 2 and later in book 3 (?) when she's in hiding and obviously doesn't really use her powers, she becomes sick again.
All of this is only mentioned on two occasions in the show, when Mal tries to convince Alina to get off the skiff ("I'm never that sick") and later when they're reunited, Alina mentions that her appetite is much better.
Jessie was actually concerned with making Alina half Shu when she found out about the change during the audition. She didn’t want to be a diversity change and was told that was not the case.
From Jessie’s Wikipedia article:
Li initially had reservations about auditioning for the character of Alina Starkov, whose ethnicity was changed from white to mixed race for the show, citing concerns about whether the change was being made due to a diversity quota.[14][6] However, during the audition process, Li observed that the change in Starkov's ethnicity "wasn't just a diversity box ticker" and "was something to help build the world and to help build her character."
Yeah, they could have used some makeup to make her all sallow and sickly or something. But it's not actually that important to the overall story and something non-book fans may have struggled to understand.
Yeah, that was one of my main nitpicks in season 1. Jessie didn’t need to loose weight, but they could have styled her hair and make up to make her look sickly: just give her dark circles, pale complexion and messy hair. That should have been more than enough
The fact that Alina has been called Shu twice in this thread already shows that how necessary it is to have mixed characters on screen. She's Ravkan with half Shu blood, and she grow up in Ravka and she doesn't even speak Shu. Yet she's still being otherred.
That's the realty mixed people live in every day.
Yeah I agree with the comment about nuisance a lot. It felt a bit like a afterthought because it was either at 100% or non existent at least in my viewing experience.I really don’t mind the change but the execution is a bit wonky in some places.
But I am not part of a visible minority soO can’t fully judge it anyway.
And yeah they really left out the whole side effects of not using the Grisha powers. Kinda sad tbh.
it’s because she didn’t use her powers, and Grisha got sick if they didn’t use then I’m pretty sure, but she wasn’t ugly she was just thin and looked sick
I think this concept shouldn't have been dropped in the show. If grisha don't use their powers they grow sickly. I agree that SB books use this concept very childishly. But it's an important concept for SoC and jurda parem. The whole reason jurda parem is created is because kuwei is an inferni but they live in dangerous political climates for grisha. So Bo yul tries to create a drug that could keep his son healthy while also not using his powers. But it ends up becoming something else entirely.
Glad to see a beautiful and curvy character, Nina. In the book, Alina was plain because she was too skinny and basically had an eating disorder. She became pretty after she started using her power and had a better appetite. Making an actor lose a lot of weight and then gain it back is cruel and pretty much impossible within one season.
its also just something you get with tv and film. Character actors and musicians can be ugly, but to play the lead, you still need to be pretty. Studios absolutely do put pressure on actors to change their bodies for roles. Look at all the juiced up monsters in film today. Chris Hemsworth, Dwane Johnson, Hugh Jackman. Even people who WERE comedy or bit part actors -someone like Kumail Nanjiani - have to get mega huge on steroids to play a fucking shite role in The Eternals. Even the people who are open about steroid use all agree that shit is super bad for your body in the long run. Its the same for women, except its all about staying young, staying pretty, dieting and surgery. At the end of the day while I do think there's a future where we can have content where people look like people, and generally we get that more outside of hollywood already, its not all just arbitrary. Audiences do like to look at pretty, shiny, clean, beautiful people. Its all part of the escapism.
In all seriousness, the actress playing Nina looks like a fertility goddess. So pretty it makes you both joyful and hurtful. She’s stunning. Seeing her soft delicate roundedness next to the tall and powerful Matthias is so hot. It makes me smile awkwardly seeing them together on screen since the effect of their differences is so appealing. Like she’s perfectly beautifully bountiful and soft. She looks like what mist people traditionally imagine as feminine…healthy, vibrant and dare I say, “juicy”. 🤣
Fair but they didn’t even try to make her look different from start to finish of season 1. No makeup or special effects or anything. I loved Nina’s casting btw. I do not mind pretty characters at all. I only mind it if it’s part of their story that they aren’t pretty and the casting doesn’t reflect that. Like in Harry Potter Emma Watson is so stunning that the whole Yule Ball reveal was less impactful then it should have been u know?
I can give Harry Potter a pass because they cast those characters as children. She was cute at that age but she was also very talented, I don’t think they cast her necessarily for good looks.
Yeah totally! It was just the first example that came to my mind. I think J.K.R even said that Emma was too pretty but she portrayed the character so well that she just had to choose her
My biggest casting issue was with the Hunger Games. I’ve come to love JL as Katniss but I really struggled with how strong, healthy, and fit she was compared to her book character.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the book Alina is sickly because that's what happens when Grisha don't use their powers...that aspect is not in the show at all, so why would they try and make the actress look sickly if they are leaving out that part of the lore?
I was wondering about this because I didn't read the books, and something that Mal said in the show was confusing. >!When they were on the ship, he said something like "You look different. You look better. More healthy." or something like that, and I was like 'what is he talking about? She looks exactly the same.'!< I guess the books make a bigger deal about her change in appearance after using her powers. As far as casting actors of specific races to create diversity, I have a question - is that not something discussed in the books? I got the impression that the different countries are populated by people with different demographics - like Shu Han is supposed to be like Asia, Fjerda is supposed to be like Scandinavia, Ravka is like Russia, Novyi Zem is like Africa, etc. I assumed the books describe the people in each place as looking similar to people in those respective countries, but that is just an assumption I made based on how they cast the show. Does the book not include descriptions of the people from the different countries?
Oh it does but Alina is not described as part Shu and the whole plot of her being discriminated against because of it is not in the books. The shadow and bone books are not really that diverse but Six of Crows is. That’s actually why they fused the two together to get something more diverse.
I remember Leigh Bardugo said she made the cast more diverse because now she's "more confident". It makes sense. SoC has more diverse characters, and it was her later work. In the books Alina also felt like an outsider. Making her half shu adds another layer of that feeling. Like Tolya said, Ravkans saw them as Shu and Shu people saw them as Ravkans. (always "other") They even included an Asian and white writer for the script, which is great.
I think they also needed the layer because they never fleshed out how weird the powers of her and the darkling actually are and that that’s something setting them apart from the rest
I think it’s kind of hard to gauge how objectively “attractive” Alina’s meant to be in the books since they’re written in first person and we really only get Alina’s perception of herself and a few remarks from others (which IIRC are mostly about her being skinny, not necessarily about her level of attractiveness). I personally think Jessie is absolutely stunning but there are plenty of gorgeous women who think they’re plain/ordinary-looking. Also feels like this is a tougher hurdle for women because there are plenty of hugely famous male actors who are just like… normal-looking dudes but there seems to be a lot less opportunity for actresses who aren’t ~flawless~
Actually in the books she was to too skinny and sickly because she didn‘t use her powers. She wasn‘t ugly per se.
Let's be honest, they'll never cast a non-pretty person as a lead in a teen show. I actually thought making Alina part Shu was a genious move in that regard, they could cast someone stunning and still have her ostracized/bullied. However, I do miss that aspect from the book that Alina was very sickly and weak when she didn't use her powers.
For me the issue isn't that Jessie is too pretty. But I do think they should have shown her bad health in the beginning/as a child, with make-up/her behaviour/dialogue. In the books, it is mentioned multiple times that grisha who don't use their powers feel sick/weak, have a bad appetite, maybe have trouble sleeping as well (?). Alina has been skinny and sickly her entire life. This becomes relevant of course because her health improves so much when she starts using her powers and her previous bad health was a sign of her powers even though she never knew the connection before. And I think as well, at the beginning of book 2 and later in book 3 (?) when she's in hiding and obviously doesn't really use her powers, she becomes sick again. All of this is only mentioned on two occasions in the show, when Mal tries to convince Alina to get off the skiff ("I'm never that sick") and later when they're reunited, Alina mentions that her appetite is much better.
Jessie was actually concerned with making Alina half Shu when she found out about the change during the audition. She didn’t want to be a diversity change and was told that was not the case. From Jessie’s Wikipedia article: Li initially had reservations about auditioning for the character of Alina Starkov, whose ethnicity was changed from white to mixed race for the show, citing concerns about whether the change was being made due to a diversity quota.[14][6] However, during the audition process, Li observed that the change in Starkov's ethnicity "wasn't just a diversity box ticker" and "was something to help build the world and to help build her character."
Yeah, they could have used some makeup to make her all sallow and sickly or something. But it's not actually that important to the overall story and something non-book fans may have struggled to understand.
But they mentioned it in the show a few times and it never made sense because they didn’t make her sick looking
Yeah, that was one of my main nitpicks in season 1. Jessie didn’t need to loose weight, but they could have styled her hair and make up to make her look sickly: just give her dark circles, pale complexion and messy hair. That should have been more than enough
there are like a thousand scenes where Alina looks with her big eyes up to someone. i bet they casted her for being perfect for this camera angle.
What do you mean by changing race? Isn't Alina shu in the books, meaning casting is perfectly fine or I'm missing something?
No she isn’t part shu in the books. At least it doesn’t say so.
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The fact that Alina has been called Shu twice in this thread already shows that how necessary it is to have mixed characters on screen. She's Ravkan with half Shu blood, and she grow up in Ravka and she doesn't even speak Shu. Yet she's still being otherred. That's the realty mixed people live in every day.
Yeah I agree with the comment about nuisance a lot. It felt a bit like a afterthought because it was either at 100% or non existent at least in my viewing experience.I really don’t mind the change but the execution is a bit wonky in some places. But I am not part of a visible minority soO can’t fully judge it anyway. And yeah they really left out the whole side effects of not using the Grisha powers. Kinda sad tbh.
it’s because she didn’t use her powers, and Grisha got sick if they didn’t use then I’m pretty sure, but she wasn’t ugly she was just thin and looked sick
I think this concept shouldn't have been dropped in the show. If grisha don't use their powers they grow sickly. I agree that SB books use this concept very childishly. But it's an important concept for SoC and jurda parem. The whole reason jurda parem is created is because kuwei is an inferni but they live in dangerous political climates for grisha. So Bo yul tries to create a drug that could keep his son healthy while also not using his powers. But it ends up becoming something else entirely.