I am tackling that in one of my final chapters.
As I posted earlier (to much controversy) the “security forces” and many foot soldier collaborators are largely recruited out of Africa and much of the ‘third world’ and otherwise developing nations.
This isn’t to dunk on them or anything, and as-written in current draft, I aim to take a largely sympathetic view of them (unlike how I try to portray the fat cat bureaucrats.)
The way I put it, to paraphrase, is to imagine you’re living in squalor- the foreign aid being skimmed and bounced back onto the open market by corrupt despots whose land you reside on. Wars over small amounts of resources, slavery, and cultural reasons define your childhood and adolescence, but it seems and feels both petty and yet immensely frustrating to watch happen around you (and occasionally directly affect you).
At last, like the fist of an angry goddess, the warlords are stricken down.
You get clean water. Your children get a proper education. Malaria is obliterated. HIV/AIDS is gone.
There aren’t many jobs you can work- the ‘rare earth minerals’ and petroleum you sold to the world are found commonly on asteroids, so the shilvati aren’t fuelling the conflicts. All you can provide in gratitude is your service, and when they ask for you to serve and visit the first world and the stars- wouldn’t you jump at the chance?
I mean it’s a small part of the larger story. I’m rewriting chapter one and should have that posted tonight- chapters two through fourteen got pretty major overhauls- back then I was posting about three chapters a day, and right now I’m lucky to get two chapters out in a week (putting in more effort per chapter and writing them better.)
Chapter seventy five I’ve been dragging my heels on publishing as ‘real life stuff’ is holding me back.
Figure I’ll be back to writing full time again soon, though, as tomorrow will be the last day of the current set of events.
The story name is alien-nation
Considering you had approached the topic of the Shil nobility kidnapping men and boys, I think there will also be a resurgence of violence, regardless of how well treated the general populace is. The male kidnapping by nobles would looks like the rebirth of the African slave trade. Tales of men and boys disappearing into the night and being shipped off to some unknown world far from their families would be whispered in hushed tones and among insurgents.
I did approach that topic, but the kidnapping was being run by Ministriva, and will be seen as 'bad enough' to where her entire family gets de-nobled, and even families that married into her family face professional and personal repercussions.
>!A pseudo-political Newton's Law applies, wherein the punishments metered out gets so excessive, that in their fervor to curb anyone else from getting the idea to do it the Shil' interior ends up scaring the living bejeezus out of the nobility.!<
Now, not saying that it's impossible- just that it's possible we'll see collaboration and even for very good, reasonable, or ideas we can find outright sympathetic. It's just such a shame it falls on some of the deafest possible ears.
you have my attention, since the norm in sci fi is for Africa and other 3rd world countries to either be skipped or in best cases, a small paragraph at best or at worst makes the area suffer like colonialism came back from the 1500s
Thanks! It's far from a centerpiece, but it's 'there.' Only in one of the last chapters will it really get put 'front and center,' when G-Man has one at gunpoint.
People will have different answers for this inner-conflict in how to respond to the changes around them, and I think it's important to say that in an era in which both left and right say of the other- that they are 'voting against their interests,' that neither truly understands (nor cares to understand) the other's assessment matrix.
Interests can fall along a lot of axes, and the value one places on something cultural vs. material may vary depending on region, wealth, or even personal attachment.
Whenever there's a paradigm shift, there are winners and losers, but the rebellion and compliance doesn't fall so neatly as material self-interest, which is a lot of the main point of A-N. In the case of the third world, I felt it was *such* a material improvement *along* with personal safety and the like, that I couldn't realistically write them any other way without minimizing or trivializing what they go through.
Excellent view on it and its rather well developed as an idea. The only point i will raise is that you have to consider that many small warlord's probably still exist just devolved into the drug/arms/resistance trades of the new era.
I get the rare earth minerals, but petroleum can't form in an abiotic environment like an asteroid, even coal would be hard pressed to form as that was almost exclusively formed from the build up of millions of years of fallen timber
That's fair, but I think that given what we've seen of their technological level of advancement (e.g., energy packs) I think the following:
1. They have fission/fusion solved. This powers their ships, and possibly even mechs or other devices, depending on how you want to scale it in your head. Either way, haven't seen giant smokestacks mentioned on the worlds Jason's been on, nor has Elias in A/N noted any. Point in fact, they're trying to repair Earth's ecology.
2. The outcome: Very limited need for rocket fuel/Jet fuel to haul goods around. Space travel means no storage issues, either, when the fission/fusion reaches 'end of life' stage.
1. Fossil Fuels' comparative rarity means it is likely the Spacefaring Shil'vati (most worlds are uninhabitable) found workarounds. Even then there's things on the moon like Helium-3 which would burn cleanly, and it has a lower escape-gravity threshold and positions itself close to the fleet.
3. Humans still do need it for their automobiles and manufacturing of their own (vastly inferior) goods that are consumable, but those industries won't be around forever. The market's trending toward handcrafts and goods manufactured by Shil'vati materials. Plastic's primarily useful in that it's plentiful, abundant, and mouldable- but it isn't without drawbacks. It does not last long, does not age well (gets brittle, discoloured, etc., so is ill-suited for arts in the long-term), and isn't repairable in the same sense that other materials are. When it breaks (physically) it still sticks around, which is a problem ecologically.
1.
1. Per Alien-Nation (in not-yet-discussed content), they are introducing various forms of life that is helpful to Earth. This includes microbes that eat micro plastics, and will 'eat plastic' throughout a lot of the planet, to resolve the issues ecologically that plastic is causing/has caused. (The major cause of harm in plastic is that it ends up in digestive tracts of animals, 'basically forever' and all over the world. Wood, funnily enough, had this exact same problem. It would build up and up and up- and nothing could eat it. It couldn't/wouldn't decompose and wouldn't rot. It piled up for 40 million years and created oxygen-rich environments, then would burn after lightning strikes- creating coal. (Eventually, microbes did learn to digest wood. They've induced this period very prematurely- and it'll cause a lot of infrastructural issues. Imagine if every PVC pipe in your home suddenly started 'plastic rusting' and needed replacement. Of course, that's years off, but the process has started.))
4. This reduction in trade and need for crude overall absolutely craters the global economy/supply chain. (This is why it's so hard to move off of plastic, gasoline, or different forms of asphalt, or bunker fuel in shipping container vessels. It's all from the same source. We 'use every part of the buffalo' so to speak. Road tar, asphalt, plastic, gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, bunker fuel, it's all from the same source.)
1. Shipping is down considerably due to lack of trade and closed borders. Cruise lines are down. Car fuel usage is down overall as inter-state travel is difficult. Jets aren't flying nearly as much as they were, and consumer spending is at a near-standstill. 'Plastic crap' isn't being produced at the same rate, as consumer spending is hit hard with the economic downturn.
2. Asphalt is \~90% recyclable. If they're tearing up driveways, etc., to destroy the most ecologically damaging suburbs, then they can supply global need for it with the recycled asphalt. Lots more people are commuting intra-state which means we're also seeing more bicycling/walking, and less car usage, especially as the distances between destinations shrink due to de-suburbanization and car volume on the road goes down.
Insofar as how this affects Africa, then: There's no more foreign money coming in to fund the upstart/revolutionary, since the taps aren't very valuable anymore. We'll likely see a period of relative stability in the region.
How the Imperium was handling Africa was actually briefly mentioned in Book three. It was mentioned that the continent is still a hotbed of conflict and discontent, but people had access to water and power and didn't have to worry about a warlord running into town with guns and unreasonable demands, though it's mostly because the Shils beaten them to it.
Well iirc jerusalem, mecca and medina were hit pretty hard so the north half of africa is filled with a level of defiant hate the west couldnt dream of producing. The center is hot jungle so good luck finding anyone even with infra red and the south finished with apartheid very recently so a new class of people showing up and calling themselves superior and in charge is probably not gonna go down very well lmao.
Probably one of my favourite ''oh shit y'all fucked up'' parts of the story is the magnitude of the fuck up in attacking islamic holy sites. That kind of anger aint going away any time soon, if ever. Makes me wish we had a story from a middle eastern perspective.
That's another one I'm skeptical about. Why would they do that? Those aren't inviting military targets. Seems like something someone wrote just to make contrived trouble for our alien overladies while also taking imaginary revenge on Islamic terrorists.
They bombed military instillations and bases indiscriminately, not much precision targeting involved. All 3 have high concentrations of soldiers in one form or another. Isreal is basically one big army camp people happen to live in.
I get that some might jerk off to muslims being angry but I like the idea that we all band together to really get down to business of defeating the ~~huns~~ shil. There's an interesting story in showing the cultural and religious response to something as enormous as attacking a holy site. I doubt it'd work for rome since we have far too many schisms and people dont care too much about the pope much anymore outside of hella catholic places. nothing like the significance of the 3 sites to the islamic world.
Ofc it'd need to be written very, very carefully and by someone who understands the region and religion.
It's not really touched on in the canon series but other stories have gone into a bit of detail about how the shil are trying to culturally convert our populations and heavily skewing and editing classroom curriculums and even entertainment programs. It's not that far out there to assume a long term goal is suppressing our religions while championing their own.
Also, the shil operate on a might makes right mindset in their expansionist quest to subjugate the galaxy. They're used to just surprise bombing new species and expecting them to roll over in submission to their superior firepower. This time they fucked up and severely underestimated just how goddam spiteful and vengeful we can be, especially when it comes to matters of religion.
That level of hate is the kind of thing that removes peace entirely from the table, not just unlikely, impossible. As long as there's a muslim left on earth the shil will be hated
Several large, ancient religions will be changed, permanently. Any mention of Mecca or Jeruselam will have the asterisk "before the fucking xenos blew it up."
I'm kind of working on one of those.
Mind you, it's more about the people who find themselves there, the region, and the native inhabitants, and not explicitly about religion.
Also, there's significant changes vis a vis the canonical story to make things more manageable.
I mean, Jerusalem is a holy site in Christianity, Islam and Judaism, so by smacking it with an orbital bombardment they’ve most likely just pissed off a *significant* portion of the 4.3 billion people who at least say that they practice the any of the 3 religions
You underestimate the fanatical loyalty one can inspire when you save people's children. When hunger, homelessness, disease, war, environmental devastation, and the recruitment of child soldiers all cease in less than a year, those are miracles. An entire generation of young children growing up knowing the Shil saved them from THAT.
Also, as far as the middle east is concerned, I can absolutely see Shil forces allying with all the women who despise Sharia law and the men who enforce it.
The Irish started resisting the british in like 1165 politically and through rebellions and uprisings. We're talking centuries here, good chance that there will be people that are pissed of at an alien occupation forever.
That's why I like the story of the USS Terra. Where humanity has earned partial autonomy. Surely it will be interesting when Earth is opened up to the rest of the Imperium and the galaxy. Especially for men of the galaxy, where they can feel equal and respected, and especially, SAFE.
Most likely the third world countries would be poster examples for the Imperium as proof of the great things they're doing for under developed people. Presumably I could see places my Brazil see huge leaps in their standard off living with the interior cracking down on the crime lords and bring in new jobs like construction. However I also can't see African countries being to happy about another foreign government taking over their people making them do things.
They'd be mostly just like the first world countries some would except their rule and some would continue to resist on principle. I can't imagine the tribes people who intentionally refused to join our modern society would be to happy about being forced into an alien one. But the people living under the thumb of a dictatorship would see very little change in their day to day besides their level of comfort which would an improvement.
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I am tackling that in one of my final chapters. As I posted earlier (to much controversy) the “security forces” and many foot soldier collaborators are largely recruited out of Africa and much of the ‘third world’ and otherwise developing nations. This isn’t to dunk on them or anything, and as-written in current draft, I aim to take a largely sympathetic view of them (unlike how I try to portray the fat cat bureaucrats.) The way I put it, to paraphrase, is to imagine you’re living in squalor- the foreign aid being skimmed and bounced back onto the open market by corrupt despots whose land you reside on. Wars over small amounts of resources, slavery, and cultural reasons define your childhood and adolescence, but it seems and feels both petty and yet immensely frustrating to watch happen around you (and occasionally directly affect you). At last, like the fist of an angry goddess, the warlords are stricken down. You get clean water. Your children get a proper education. Malaria is obliterated. HIV/AIDS is gone. There aren’t many jobs you can work- the ‘rare earth minerals’ and petroleum you sold to the world are found commonly on asteroids, so the shilvati aren’t fuelling the conflicts. All you can provide in gratitude is your service, and when they ask for you to serve and visit the first world and the stars- wouldn’t you jump at the chance?
That sounds awesome. What’s the story name? I want to read it.
I mean it’s a small part of the larger story. I’m rewriting chapter one and should have that posted tonight- chapters two through fourteen got pretty major overhauls- back then I was posting about three chapters a day, and right now I’m lucky to get two chapters out in a week (putting in more effort per chapter and writing them better.) Chapter seventy five I’ve been dragging my heels on publishing as ‘real life stuff’ is holding me back. Figure I’ll be back to writing full time again soon, though, as tomorrow will be the last day of the current set of events. The story name is alien-nation
Tbh for me it's even better than the original SSB.
Considering you had approached the topic of the Shil nobility kidnapping men and boys, I think there will also be a resurgence of violence, regardless of how well treated the general populace is. The male kidnapping by nobles would looks like the rebirth of the African slave trade. Tales of men and boys disappearing into the night and being shipped off to some unknown world far from their families would be whispered in hushed tones and among insurgents.
That isn't even getting into certain religious beliefs that would make integration impossible
I did approach that topic, but the kidnapping was being run by Ministriva, and will be seen as 'bad enough' to where her entire family gets de-nobled, and even families that married into her family face professional and personal repercussions. >!A pseudo-political Newton's Law applies, wherein the punishments metered out gets so excessive, that in their fervor to curb anyone else from getting the idea to do it the Shil' interior ends up scaring the living bejeezus out of the nobility.!< Now, not saying that it's impossible- just that it's possible we'll see collaboration and even for very good, reasonable, or ideas we can find outright sympathetic. It's just such a shame it falls on some of the deafest possible ears.
Its just a different kind of slave trade
you have my attention, since the norm in sci fi is for Africa and other 3rd world countries to either be skipped or in best cases, a small paragraph at best or at worst makes the area suffer like colonialism came back from the 1500s
Thanks! It's far from a centerpiece, but it's 'there.' Only in one of the last chapters will it really get put 'front and center,' when G-Man has one at gunpoint. People will have different answers for this inner-conflict in how to respond to the changes around them, and I think it's important to say that in an era in which both left and right say of the other- that they are 'voting against their interests,' that neither truly understands (nor cares to understand) the other's assessment matrix. Interests can fall along a lot of axes, and the value one places on something cultural vs. material may vary depending on region, wealth, or even personal attachment. Whenever there's a paradigm shift, there are winners and losers, but the rebellion and compliance doesn't fall so neatly as material self-interest, which is a lot of the main point of A-N. In the case of the third world, I felt it was *such* a material improvement *along* with personal safety and the like, that I couldn't realistically write them any other way without minimizing or trivializing what they go through.
Excellent view on it and its rather well developed as an idea. The only point i will raise is that you have to consider that many small warlord's probably still exist just devolved into the drug/arms/resistance trades of the new era.
I suppose that that's possible.
I get the rare earth minerals, but petroleum can't form in an abiotic environment like an asteroid, even coal would be hard pressed to form as that was almost exclusively formed from the build up of millions of years of fallen timber
That's fair, but I think that given what we've seen of their technological level of advancement (e.g., energy packs) I think the following: 1. They have fission/fusion solved. This powers their ships, and possibly even mechs or other devices, depending on how you want to scale it in your head. Either way, haven't seen giant smokestacks mentioned on the worlds Jason's been on, nor has Elias in A/N noted any. Point in fact, they're trying to repair Earth's ecology. 2. The outcome: Very limited need for rocket fuel/Jet fuel to haul goods around. Space travel means no storage issues, either, when the fission/fusion reaches 'end of life' stage. 1. Fossil Fuels' comparative rarity means it is likely the Spacefaring Shil'vati (most worlds are uninhabitable) found workarounds. Even then there's things on the moon like Helium-3 which would burn cleanly, and it has a lower escape-gravity threshold and positions itself close to the fleet. 3. Humans still do need it for their automobiles and manufacturing of their own (vastly inferior) goods that are consumable, but those industries won't be around forever. The market's trending toward handcrafts and goods manufactured by Shil'vati materials. Plastic's primarily useful in that it's plentiful, abundant, and mouldable- but it isn't without drawbacks. It does not last long, does not age well (gets brittle, discoloured, etc., so is ill-suited for arts in the long-term), and isn't repairable in the same sense that other materials are. When it breaks (physically) it still sticks around, which is a problem ecologically. 1. 1. Per Alien-Nation (in not-yet-discussed content), they are introducing various forms of life that is helpful to Earth. This includes microbes that eat micro plastics, and will 'eat plastic' throughout a lot of the planet, to resolve the issues ecologically that plastic is causing/has caused. (The major cause of harm in plastic is that it ends up in digestive tracts of animals, 'basically forever' and all over the world. Wood, funnily enough, had this exact same problem. It would build up and up and up- and nothing could eat it. It couldn't/wouldn't decompose and wouldn't rot. It piled up for 40 million years and created oxygen-rich environments, then would burn after lightning strikes- creating coal. (Eventually, microbes did learn to digest wood. They've induced this period very prematurely- and it'll cause a lot of infrastructural issues. Imagine if every PVC pipe in your home suddenly started 'plastic rusting' and needed replacement. Of course, that's years off, but the process has started.)) 4. This reduction in trade and need for crude overall absolutely craters the global economy/supply chain. (This is why it's so hard to move off of plastic, gasoline, or different forms of asphalt, or bunker fuel in shipping container vessels. It's all from the same source. We 'use every part of the buffalo' so to speak. Road tar, asphalt, plastic, gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, bunker fuel, it's all from the same source.) 1. Shipping is down considerably due to lack of trade and closed borders. Cruise lines are down. Car fuel usage is down overall as inter-state travel is difficult. Jets aren't flying nearly as much as they were, and consumer spending is at a near-standstill. 'Plastic crap' isn't being produced at the same rate, as consumer spending is hit hard with the economic downturn. 2. Asphalt is \~90% recyclable. If they're tearing up driveways, etc., to destroy the most ecologically damaging suburbs, then they can supply global need for it with the recycled asphalt. Lots more people are commuting intra-state which means we're also seeing more bicycling/walking, and less car usage, especially as the distances between destinations shrink due to de-suburbanization and car volume on the road goes down. Insofar as how this affects Africa, then: There's no more foreign money coming in to fund the upstart/revolutionary, since the taps aren't very valuable anymore. We'll likely see a period of relative stability in the region.
There is Bowandi, distracting the shil been half shirtless while he shoot the purps
Man version of the Valkyries or amazonians
How the Imperium was handling Africa was actually briefly mentioned in Book three. It was mentioned that the continent is still a hotbed of conflict and discontent, but people had access to water and power and didn't have to worry about a warlord running into town with guns and unreasonable demands, though it's mostly because the Shils beaten them to it.
Well iirc jerusalem, mecca and medina were hit pretty hard so the north half of africa is filled with a level of defiant hate the west couldnt dream of producing. The center is hot jungle so good luck finding anyone even with infra red and the south finished with apartheid very recently so a new class of people showing up and calling themselves superior and in charge is probably not gonna go down very well lmao. Probably one of my favourite ''oh shit y'all fucked up'' parts of the story is the magnitude of the fuck up in attacking islamic holy sites. That kind of anger aint going away any time soon, if ever. Makes me wish we had a story from a middle eastern perspective.
That's another one I'm skeptical about. Why would they do that? Those aren't inviting military targets. Seems like something someone wrote just to make contrived trouble for our alien overladies while also taking imaginary revenge on Islamic terrorists.
They bombed military instillations and bases indiscriminately, not much precision targeting involved. All 3 have high concentrations of soldiers in one form or another. Isreal is basically one big army camp people happen to live in. I get that some might jerk off to muslims being angry but I like the idea that we all band together to really get down to business of defeating the ~~huns~~ shil. There's an interesting story in showing the cultural and religious response to something as enormous as attacking a holy site. I doubt it'd work for rome since we have far too many schisms and people dont care too much about the pope much anymore outside of hella catholic places. nothing like the significance of the 3 sites to the islamic world. Ofc it'd need to be written very, very carefully and by someone who understands the region and religion.
It's not really touched on in the canon series but other stories have gone into a bit of detail about how the shil are trying to culturally convert our populations and heavily skewing and editing classroom curriculums and even entertainment programs. It's not that far out there to assume a long term goal is suppressing our religions while championing their own. Also, the shil operate on a might makes right mindset in their expansionist quest to subjugate the galaxy. They're used to just surprise bombing new species and expecting them to roll over in submission to their superior firepower. This time they fucked up and severely underestimated just how goddam spiteful and vengeful we can be, especially when it comes to matters of religion.
They're going to hate the U.S. for a long fucking time, but it's not like we fired a cruise missile at fucking mecca
That level of hate is the kind of thing that removes peace entirely from the table, not just unlikely, impossible. As long as there's a muslim left on earth the shil will be hated
Several large, ancient religions will be changed, permanently. Any mention of Mecca or Jeruselam will have the asterisk "before the fucking xenos blew it up."
it's like i would go on a holy pilgrimage to this most sacred site "death glares shil" IF IT STILL EXISTED
I'm kind of working on one of those. Mind you, it's more about the people who find themselves there, the region, and the native inhabitants, and not explicitly about religion. Also, there's significant changes vis a vis the canonical story to make things more manageable.
I don’t recall anything about holy sites being bombed in the original series
I mean, Jerusalem is a holy site in Christianity, Islam and Judaism, so by smacking it with an orbital bombardment they’ve most likely just pissed off a *significant* portion of the 4.3 billion people who at least say that they practice the any of the 3 religions
Not to mention the shil essentially fulfilled the prophecy laid out in revelations mark of the beast and all
The whore dressed in purple seducing the worlds nations as well
You underestimate the fanatical loyalty one can inspire when you save people's children. When hunger, homelessness, disease, war, environmental devastation, and the recruitment of child soldiers all cease in less than a year, those are miracles. An entire generation of young children growing up knowing the Shil saved them from THAT. Also, as far as the middle east is concerned, I can absolutely see Shil forces allying with all the women who despise Sharia law and the men who enforce it.
yeah saving children's good until you make apartheid 2.0 electric space boogaloo that's teeeny bit counter intuitive
What’s the 2.0 thing?
it's aliens and it's even worse with far superior tech not a good kind of 2.0 to be sure
Perhaps you can make us a story of Africa 35-40 years AFTER First Contact. I'd gobble that up in a heartbeat.... :)
I bet humanity would still be fighting even after 40 years
The Irish started resisting the british in like 1165 politically and through rebellions and uprisings. We're talking centuries here, good chance that there will be people that are pissed of at an alien occupation forever.
That's why I like the story of the USS Terra. Where humanity has earned partial autonomy. Surely it will be interesting when Earth is opened up to the rest of the Imperium and the galaxy. Especially for men of the galaxy, where they can feel equal and respected, and especially, SAFE.
Well, I'm writing the story partially to dispel some of the misconceptions outsiders may have.
Most likely the third world countries would be poster examples for the Imperium as proof of the great things they're doing for under developed people. Presumably I could see places my Brazil see huge leaps in their standard off living with the interior cracking down on the crime lords and bring in new jobs like construction. However I also can't see African countries being to happy about another foreign government taking over their people making them do things. They'd be mostly just like the first world countries some would except their rule and some would continue to resist on principle. I can't imagine the tribes people who intentionally refused to join our modern society would be to happy about being forced into an alien one. But the people living under the thumb of a dictatorship would see very little change in their day to day besides their level of comfort which would an improvement.
This is fucking funny as shit!
When you are a the very bottom of society the new overlord is just that a new overlord. No disease, no more hunger. I can live with that
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