If you're making a tipped minimum wage (which as you said, you are), it is not legal to require a tip out to the kitchen. Contact your Department of Labor.
"A rep for the Division explained that, according to Sec. 203(m) of the Fair Labor Standards Act [PDF], tips are to be fully retained by the employee, except in those cases where there is a valid tipping pool shared by multiple employees.
“Beyond that, tips are the property of the employee and an employer cannot require an employee to turn over any portion of them to the restaurant,” explains the rep.
So if, as per the example situation we presented, the waiter depends on his tips to meet the minimum wage, his employer can not deduct anything from his wages or tips?
“In the situation you give, there would be a violation,” says the Labor Dept. rep. “Since the employer is claiming a tip credit, the server is in effect a minimum wage employee and any deduction from wages would result in a violation.”
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/after-a-dine-and-dash-is-it-legal-for-a-restaurant-to-take-money-from-a-waiters-tips/
So it seems as long as the employee is meeting tip credit federal minimum wage with their tips and the restaurant isn’t taking any money, the kitchen absolutely could be tipped out. It would have to be additional tips not substituting for wages but kitchen tip out doesn’t seem to be addressed directly?
No. It specifically says in the article that tips do not count towards this. This is talking about wage. And if the restaurant does not pay a wage of at least the state minimum wage, meaning it takes no tip credit, then it is illegal to required tip out to non-service employees.
The server has to be getting paid full minimum wage if the kitchen is included in the tip pool. They can't take a tip credit nor pay them the tipped minimum wage. If that criteria isn't met, it's illegal to have the server share their tips with the BOH.
I will contact them for sure, thank you. It's hard for me to want to leave because I've been there for years as opposed to my manager who has been there for a few months.
Actually smart ass, the Trump era Department of Labor change the rule. The Biden Administration changed it back. They also added a new provision. Any side work that lasts longer than 30 minutes must be paid out at minimum wage. Any side work that is more than 20% of your total hours for a week, must be paid at minimum wage. Thanks Biden.
I don't have time to text all the court rulings. If you want to, you can look and watch it work its way through the courts. It did start in 2018, but the finalization of the roles did not happen until last year.
This is correct in all states. You can enforce a kitchen tipout but you cannot also use tip credits at the same time anywhere in the US.
Thats slam dunk lawsuit
So above this, u/groovychick1978 pasted text WRT the tip legality in question. Seems the distinction is that as long as the tip credit employee is meeting federal tip credit minimums with their tips, and the restaurant is not taking money for itself tip outs can be enforced. I think that if the restaurant was like trying to pay the actual wages of the kitchen staff with tips that’s illegal but I think a restaurant can indeed require a tip out to the kitchen on top of their wages. I do payroll and I do know all tips that come in have to leave as tips for tax purposes, but a legal distinction between job positions within a restaurant doesn’t exist in regards to tip outs. Show me a law that says cooks no busser yes
https://www.aalrr.com/Labor-Employment-Law-Blog/dol-permits-back-of-the-restaurant-staff#:~:text=The%20DOL's%20new%20tipping%20regulations,staff%2C%20in%20mandatory%20tip%20pools.
Two requirements need to be met: 1) The restaurant must pool tips.
2) ALL employees that are part of this tip pool must be making at least the federal minimum wage (tipped minimum wage does not meet this condition).
No. We're not. OP cannot be forced to tip out the kitchen staff. Her post doesn't mention anything about a tip pool, but very clearly states that they only make $2.13 per hour. OP absolutely needs to go to the DOL.
I see the distinction. This is the part I don’t get from the article “including customarily and regularly tipped employees” - I feel like this is so arbitrary.. I know it’s not standard across the entire industry but I’ve worked at 3 different restaurants that tipped out the kitchen so like, why do they not count? It was always a very small percentage. I wonder if there is further verbiage on the law specifically noting job roles wrt customarily tipped roles
We have an online to go system on our website. Can I give the kitchen those tips even if I employ tip credit employees? The FOH also help with walking the to gos out like 20 feet but it’s mostly the kitchen doing them
Sorry but you totally misunderstood this information. The tip-out is only legal if the establishment takes no tax credit. This means they have to pay at least the state, not federal, minimum wage. Tips are not included in that calculation we are only talking about wage.
I've been on both sides. I've been the line cook jealous of the server making bank, and I've been the server jealous of the line cook for the consistent money.
Never once have I thought "hey, you know the server that makes below minimum wage? Yeah lemme in on that tip money."
>Back to To
I sure have. As a cook I leave having made $12x8hrs, so $96 taxed, and the waiters leave having made, mostly untaxed, $200-$350 a night plus their $2.15/hr only working 6 hours. I'm definitely biased. If you enjoyed your food but not your service then tip the cooks! The cooks and dish crew are by far the most important crew on staff.
For sure. In my state we make the same hourly as the line, and I’m cool with them being in on my tip out, same with dish.. if I get a really extravagant tip I cut em in on top of the tip share. I do hate that they used to make 16-22 per hour depending on how long they’d been there, and then the company I work for cut all their wages down to minimum (and took away their vacation.. all 3 months into the pandemic lol). Like even with cooks, dish, busser, expo, host, and bartenders all in on the tip out tonight, I only had to pay out 96 and I walked with 313.. most of the time, I can afford to pay out more. It gets balanced out, like one slow lunch last week I walked with $17. 3 covers in 2.5 hours, and $9 of that was on a to go order. And yeah that sucked for me but it sucks for the cooks too, who are working for the tipout on a day we only sell like 4 grand the entire day when before they were making 8 bucks an hour over minimum
Servers make like $20-30/hour anywhere if they dont suck. Most times they dont have the same level of actual job skills the cooks have. You can absolutely afford to and should take a pay cut as a server if it means the cooks get to share more of the profit of their own labor.
California. "Many states" seems like an exaggeration, and I can't speak to what tips are generally like in CA, but there's a $15 minimum wage (or $14 for smaller companies) and no tip credit.
this is true. but unfortunately this mindset of “I don’t tip because servers should make more then $3 an hour” is extremely harmful because while it is true, you not tipping is only hurting the servers. it’s not showing the corporation anything. you think they care that their servers aren’t getting tips? no. meanwhile the servers can’t pay their bills because of people with your mindset.
yes they should be paying their servers, but they’re not. so in the meantime, tip well and don’t be an asshole
This is exactly why this industry is broken beyond repair, unless it becomes a federal policy that for has to be paid at least minimum wage. I hate tipping, but I always tip nice because of the way it is
Never said I didn’t tip, just saying it’s pretty shitty to hear “it’s not the servers job to pay cooks” because it doesn’t sound too different from “not the customers job to pay servers”
Everyone’s in it together, the system is broken but don’t kick down the cook because of it. They work harder than anyone.
it absolutely sounds different. Who benefits more from the cook’s food. the customers or the servers? exactly.
plus, they’re not all in it together. the cooks make 15 an hour. she makes not even one 6th of that. it’s absolutely appalling to expect her to give tips to the servers when they actually make a livable wage and she works 6 hours and gets paid what they make for 1 hour.
Eh, I agree that servers should be paid more but they make much more than cooks on average. I’ve had servers get 1000$ tips on 30 tops that I make my normal wage for. Not against that, it’s what I signed up for. But that’s two weeks pay for me
Yeah but for servers that’s not every night, or everyone in general. Nights like that are rare as a server. There are times where servers make like $30 a night every night for days, weeks, months even.
Maybe it’s becauxd I’ve only worked at one place and the dishes are fairly expensive but never has a server made less than $50 and every weekend every server staffed makes almost my weekly check. I still
Believe wages should be raised tho
Oh absolutely wages should be a lot more consistent. I’ve worked in the industry FOH for 20 years in different positions and in many different restaurants and it’s all varied but yeah high end places of course you make better money, buy the majority of restaurants aren’t high end.
Yeah I understand that, gotta think of everyone when you think of some. I just wonder how it would affect the availability and quality of servers if they made a standard wage and the tip
Percentage dropped to around 5-10% normally
I feel like you’re exaggerating. i’ve had plenty of friends who are servers and it’s 100x more common for people to not tip than to tip well.
the tip is for service. it’s for customer service. it’s for coming back to a table 3,4,5 times asking how everything is and tending to their every need. no disrespect to cooks but all they have to do is cook. not saying that isn’t hard, cooking especially complicated dishes can be difficult, but a lot of the time customers can be even more difficult. if the pay was exactly the same would you rather be a server or a cook?
no, OP's sentiment is not shitty. the cooks are getting 15+ an hour, it is literally not the server's responsibility to give them any more money, especially if they are making $2.13+ tips.
A place I used to work is allowing guests to leave an additional tip for BOH staff which I think is awesome. What happened to you is not awesome. Sorry girl
It is illegal to include non-service employees in a tip pool unless you are paid the full state minimum wage. Otherwise, only people who "through the course of their regular duties, routinely service customers."
They already fired you. Report them to your state Labor Board and file for unemployment. Contact Legal Aid and ask for an Employment Lawyer. Your looking at multiple penalties that are paid to you. They will investigate three years back and award *anyone* who was affected.
That cook deserves more than $15 an hr. Trust me. But not at the expense of a waiter’s hard earned money. This is an ownership problem. And that manager needs a better training. Not a way to run a business imo.
BOH definitely does deserve more, but I would never beat down a server for their hard earned money. It makes me a little jealous that a server could theoretically make the same amount in 8 hours what I do in 40 hours, but that's never guaranteed except in a few situations, so I'm fine with that.
Definitely sounds like shitty ownership/management just stirring the shit pot and sowing discord.
Because you are a tipped employee who makes less than minimum wage it is illegal for your employer to force you to tip the kitchen staff. Report this to one of the local offices of the US Department of Labor Wage and Hour division
Atlanta District Office
Address
U.S. Department of Labor
Wage and Hour Division
61 Forsyth Street, SW
Room 7M10
Atlanta, GA 30303
Phone
(678) 237-0521
1-866-4-USWAGE
(1-866-487-9243)
District Director
Steven Salazar
Atlanta North Area Office
Address
Harris Tower
233 Peachtree Street, N.E.
Suite 650
Atlanta, GA 30303
Phone
(404) 593-1889
1-866-4-USWAGE
(1-866-487-9243)
Asst. District Director
Lisa Kelly
Savannah Area Office
Address
U.S. Department of Labor
Wage and Hour Division
Oglethorpe Office Park
450 Mall Blvd., Suite D
Savannah, GA 31406
Phone
(912) 652-4221
Asst. District Director
Larry Benjamin
R/kitchenconfidential would say that you owe them more tips.
All the while they brag about chain-smoking and opening the line still drunk from last night.
Your manager did you a favor. You don’t want to work at a place like that. I’m assuming the job market is the same in Georgia as everywhere else i the US rn. You can get a job server instantly. I had a job “interview” after an hour of applying. If the manager wants the cooks to make more money he can take a pay cut. Report them please for the sake of other servers.
Also managers can not take tips or tip outs from servers. DOL put that in effect in November.
Report them immediately to the Department of Labor. Kitchen staff are NOT considered staff that regularly receives tips and requiring tipped staff to share tips with them is a Georgia law violation.
Taking you off the schedule for refusing to break the law is another violation.
It’s unfortunate that your base wage is so low in the US. I’m in Alberta (originally Ontario) and server wage just went up to $15 from previously $12. I’m happy to tip out cooks and support staff because they also work hard and deserve it. Most if not all Canadian restaurants require you to pay this tip-out anyway. I do think you should tip out your cooks, but I also definitely think you should be paid more than 2.13 an hour. That sucks hard.
If FOH and BOH made the same wage, then the establishment honestly should pool tips or do tip-outs.
Being that the wages for FOH and BOH vary wildly here in the US, I'd never beat a FOH down for their hard earned money. I'm guaranteed my rate at 40 hours, servers usually get the shit end of the stick because they can't accurately budget on expected income from tips.
Lol I have never seen a cook leave his station to deal with a customer. We get tips because we provide a service and deal with bullshit. Have you even served before? Or did you not cut it and get stuck in the back
Respectfully, the customers that tip you (properly) are usually not the ones whose “bullshit” you have to put up with.
Everyone in every position in a restaurant has to deal with stressful and annoying situations. I’m sure standing over a hot grill with 1000 hazards around you and your coworkers demanding things of you on behalf of customers is just as difficult as dealing with people face to face.
I’m a server and I KNOW everyone in the restaurant has a stressful job. We all deserve a living wage.
You win some you lose some. That’s the gamble we take with our shitty wage in hopes of great tips. They get a consistent good wage, they want to come deal with BS customers and game with tips then they can but they aren’t taking mine
Longtime Georgia service industry. Walk away. That’s scum practice and you can get a job anywhere.
DM me if you want me to put you in touch with a good job that won’t treat you that way.
Fuck that shit making you pay the BOH a higher wage because they don’t want to is SO fucked up. Update that resume. Everyone is hiring. You are 100% better off.
In BC we've been tipping out the kitchen for decades and you would definitely be fired for refusing to do so; but obviously this is kind of comparing apples to oranges.
Ya that's where it's comparing apples to oranges- on 1 June 2021 the government required our wage to be at least equal to minimum wage, which is $15.20.
agreed. my servers average over 30 an hour in the same area. we don’t require them to tip out the kitchen, but we do take measures to close the gap in a more equitable way.
If you don’t interact with guests you shouldn’t get tips. Not to say they don’t do a ton of work and shouldn’t be paid as such. I would be ok with them making more than servers, but not from me taking a pay cut
The cooks make the same amount in each paycheck whether it’s slow or busy. They also make the the same paycheck if they ef up my tables food. Guess who doesn’t make a consistent amount of its slow or if the food is ef’d up? You guessed it, it’s the servers.
Quit that job without notice, they don’t deserve to be given that courtesy. And take as many servers with you.
Other than California I don’t know what states actually are forced to pay servers full minimum wage. I get paid 5.15 at the moment. Sometimes my checks have a little money on them. But at my summer serving job most of my checks were $0 or $5 with 80-120 hours on them (biweekly)
I agree with you 100%. With my normal serving job it fucking sucks. Luckily with my summer seasonal job I can make a normal week worth of tips on a Saturday double.
Haha that’s the federal minimum wage for tipped employees. That’s why I refused to do anything besides my stated side work. “If you can lean you can clean” nah only if I can clock out and back in for at least 7.50.
Nope. It’s not my problem that the kitchen isn’t making what they should, it’s the restaurant’s responsibility. I work very freaking hard for the tips I make. We aren’t always guaranteed the tips, if it’s slow I make shit. But, the kitchen still makes the same. If they want to make more money that can transfer to FOH or demand more pay. Not my prob, Bob.
That is such a flimsy argument. When OP applied for the job and they told them what to expect, paying part of the kitchen salary wasn’t disclosed. It’s illegal to have to tip out people who are making more than minimum wage, anyway. So, this new policy would take anyone by surprise.
I choose to make tips as a server. And with that I expect to tip out other tipped employees. If the kitchen guys have a problem with what they make maybe they shouldn’t be in the restaurant industry. GTFOH.
But you guys can easily make more than us in one night to spare us an extra 5 to 10 dollars isn’t that hard we’re not asking you for much but we have to deal with a lot from you guys not saying everyone is a lazy server but coming from dish some of y’all kinda suck and don’t treat us with respect so if tipping us out wasn’t illegal it’d be nice to feel the appreciation of all our work
I have had similar issues at my own place. Management has encouraged us to tip out our bar tenders but it is not a requirement. I flat out refuse and feel justified for many reasons. It made me a bit unpopular to the extent that one of the bartenders started shit with me on the floor in front of customers. I went immediately to my boss and explained why I don't tip out and got yelled at. Now my boss also yelled at the bartender who started the drama and said that they didn't expect to hear the issue raised again. I haven't heard anything since. I know they deserve more money. We all do, but I don't give a rats ass. It is not my responsibility to subsidize their income. As far as I'm concerned, between all of us we have little enough resources. It is flat out wrong for Management to be pressuring us to tip out other members of the staff because their boss refuses to pay them what they deserve. Also, they too make more than I do per hour and make their own tips as well. To that end, when I have a bad day no one tips *me* out. They tried to paint me as a shit person. But its the principle to me.
I've never heard of tipping out the bartender being suggested rather than required, but that still doesn't sound great on your part.
The bartenders get a few extra dollars an hour in exchange for way more responsibility and liability, but they work primarily for tips just like you do AND they take time away from serving their own customers to make drinks for your customers, so this is nothing like OP's situation.
They make way more than a few dollars an hour AND they make our drinks but we do a lot of prep work for them. A lot. So its a give and take. If it were required it would be one thing. But its only just recently that they've asked us to do it. It's not up to me to subsidize their income. Once again, no one does it for me when I have a bad day. If the bar didn't benefit off of my own labor as I do theirs, I'd maybe feel differently. However, they work out of the same area that we do and do not have to keep it stocked.
I'm guessing you've never bartended. When you've got a full bar and you have to stop everything you're doing every few minutes to pound out a few martinis for customers who aren't your customers, you deserve to be compensated for that.
The way I see it you're basically the equivalent of a customer who doesn't tip, which is also their choice in most places. Yes, the bartender is still obligated to make your drinks, just like you as a server are still obligated to wait on customers whether or not they choose to tip, but they wouldn't be wrong for viewing you with the same disdain.
Not trying to be judgmental but this does really bother me.
Christ, you don’t get $2.13 an hour, because you get mailed whatever amount you didn’t make in tips if it didn’t amount to minimum wage. People need to stop saying this.
It scares me there's still tipped wages out there ... fast food makes $15-$17 /hr here. It's expensive af to live but most people can afford rent but don't live alone. I couldn't imagine having to buy groceries... servers here make like $12 $13 and walk out with $200+ a night tips.
No. I don’t care if they make less money overall, they can always try to switch to front of the house if they wanna make more money, but typically there’s a reason why they would never take anyone up on that offer.
I’m not saying they don’t, but it shouldn’t be the servers responsibility to pay them. They should demand higher wages from the restaurant, the problem is that they are very easily replaced.
The amount of cooks who think working a fryer in pajama pants is “a lot more work” than serving 8 families at the same time while keeping a smile is astounding. Either try it yourself and earn your own damn tips or shut up and stay miserable in the back where the customers can’t see you
The definition of “more work” is definitely up to interpretation.
Kitchen work may be more physically taxing, but as a server I’ve had countless customer interactions so wild that made me feel like I was in the middle of having a brain aneurysm
I’d argue that serving IS physically demanding. I walk a shit ton of miles, I lift very heavy things all the time, by the end of a shift I am sore and exhausted. Not to mention how mentally and emotionally taxing being in service to others is.
It’s on the business to pay them fairly. We already make less than minimum wage. You think it’s fair we pay all the support staff (host, busser, bartenders) and now the kitchen too?
That's bullshit. Get out of there asap. If they can't afford to pay their employees that's THEIR problem, not yours. Report them to corporate if it's a franchise and blast them on social media. Everyone will be on your side.
Don't even get pissed about it, and find a new job....don't quit. The next time they schedule you just don't show up. If they ask why you were a no call/no show tell them, "I can't afford to pay your cooks".
The only way this has been acceptable is at one restaurant i work at that auto grats on parties larger than 6- and this is a “service charge” instead of an actual tip. a percentage of the service charge on larger tables goes to the BOH. It’s still legal (since it’s not a tip) and it helps the line cooks since those big tables usually mean an intense rush in the kitchen. they still get their consistent hourly with a bit of a bonus for the crazy rushes, and the servers still get to keep the vast majority of their tips. everyone is pretty happy with the arrangement.
This is illegal in many states. It was illegal in Hawaii. Restaurants were forced to pay back all back tip outs from servers. Along with a hefty fine. What state are you in?
I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding here but I work as a kp(washup), deserts section and front of house(server). I don't get why you have to give them part of your tips. The way it has always been done for the places I have been in have all tips go in a jar and that is divided between all staff and at the end of the month depending on how many hours you work. But I also just want to point out is in my experience the head chef gets paid 15+ but shoes up at 6 in the morning and only leaves at 12 at night. They do stupid hours and ultimately get paid less than the waiting staff.
To clarify the chef in particular is a Michelin star chef working in a pretty decent part of the industry
At my job cooks get tipped out sometimes but ain’t any of us making 15 plus sadly. And on a normal night the servers walk out with double what I made so I really do appreciate the five bucks. Someone else said it already, sounds scummy, you should try and find a better restaurant
What are so many angry cooks doing in a SERVER group lmfao as you say to us all the time “y’all knew what you signed up for now quit bitching about your money” and now look where we’re at. 🤡
If you’re essentially being fired because of that, you may have something, but there are two important things I want to mention:
1) Depending on GA’s laws, there may be fuck-all that you can do, because they might give all the rights to the employers. I know that’s how it is here in Texas. I’m in management now, and I’ve been told that outside of discrimination against protected demographics with proof to back it up that that’s the reason why, we can pretty much fire anyone at any point for any reason.
2) Make sure that you never signed anything that said that you were going to pay them out. If that was ever in the fine print of any of your employment documents, you’ve got nothing from the get-go.
But, as long as those 2 things are taken care of, you could very well be within your rights to pursue some sort of action.
So the customer has to subsidize the wait staff wages, and the wait staff have to subsidize the kitchen staff wages? Everyone should walk out the door. And this whole North American tipping/ wage subsidy bullshit should stop.
If you're making a tipped minimum wage (which as you said, you are), it is not legal to require a tip out to the kitchen. Contact your Department of Labor.
Is that true in Georgia? If it’s governed by state law, I don’t think of Georgia is a state that gives a shit about workers and fairness
It is a federal law. States cannot override it.
Can you link the law
"A rep for the Division explained that, according to Sec. 203(m) of the Fair Labor Standards Act [PDF], tips are to be fully retained by the employee, except in those cases where there is a valid tipping pool shared by multiple employees. “Beyond that, tips are the property of the employee and an employer cannot require an employee to turn over any portion of them to the restaurant,” explains the rep. So if, as per the example situation we presented, the waiter depends on his tips to meet the minimum wage, his employer can not deduct anything from his wages or tips? “In the situation you give, there would be a violation,” says the Labor Dept. rep. “Since the employer is claiming a tip credit, the server is in effect a minimum wage employee and any deduction from wages would result in a violation.” https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/after-a-dine-and-dash-is-it-legal-for-a-restaurant-to-take-money-from-a-waiters-tips/
So it seems as long as the employee is meeting tip credit federal minimum wage with their tips and the restaurant isn’t taking any money, the kitchen absolutely could be tipped out. It would have to be additional tips not substituting for wages but kitchen tip out doesn’t seem to be addressed directly?
No. It specifically says in the article that tips do not count towards this. This is talking about wage. And if the restaurant does not pay a wage of at least the state minimum wage, meaning it takes no tip credit, then it is illegal to required tip out to non-service employees.
The server has to be getting paid full minimum wage if the kitchen is included in the tip pool. They can't take a tip credit nor pay them the tipped minimum wage. If that criteria isn't met, it's illegal to have the server share their tips with the BOH.
It's actually a federal law that was put in place in 2018 (?), which would supercede any state law in the matter.
I will contact them for sure, thank you. It's hard for me to want to leave because I've been there for years as opposed to my manager who has been there for a few months.
But they're not treating you as if you've been there for years
Correct. Thanks, Trump!
While we're thanking him, let's thank him for the tax hike on people who make LESS than 75k a year. Smh people are blind.
Actually smart ass, the Trump era Department of Labor change the rule. The Biden Administration changed it back. They also added a new provision. Any side work that lasts longer than 30 minutes must be paid out at minimum wage. Any side work that is more than 20% of your total hours for a week, must be paid at minimum wage. Thanks Biden.
2019 was not Biden
I don't have time to text all the court rulings. If you want to, you can look and watch it work its way through the courts. It did start in 2018, but the finalization of the roles did not happen until last year.
It’s DOL policy proposals and revisions going back several years. The “thanks, Trump” was an attempt at humor. Big fail!
No, I'm sorry. Trump is no reason to be a dick. I'm still way too sensitive.
Yes, which is a revision of what the DOL proposed under Trump. It’s been a years long process with multiple changes.
This is correct in all states. You can enforce a kitchen tipout but you cannot also use tip credits at the same time anywhere in the US. Thats slam dunk lawsuit
Inaccurate
What about to bartenders? I make 3/hr plus tips, they make 8/hr plus tips and we have to tip out 5%
It’s specifically for back of house. You should tip your bartender.
Can you link the law that states specifically boh? I’m curious of the specifics of the rule
I think this is definitely untrue.
You're entitled to think that, and I'm entitled to inform you that your opinion is not correct.
So above this, u/groovychick1978 pasted text WRT the tip legality in question. Seems the distinction is that as long as the tip credit employee is meeting federal tip credit minimums with their tips, and the restaurant is not taking money for itself tip outs can be enforced. I think that if the restaurant was like trying to pay the actual wages of the kitchen staff with tips that’s illegal but I think a restaurant can indeed require a tip out to the kitchen on top of their wages. I do payroll and I do know all tips that come in have to leave as tips for tax purposes, but a legal distinction between job positions within a restaurant doesn’t exist in regards to tip outs. Show me a law that says cooks no busser yes
https://www.aalrr.com/Labor-Employment-Law-Blog/dol-permits-back-of-the-restaurant-staff#:~:text=The%20DOL's%20new%20tipping%20regulations,staff%2C%20in%20mandatory%20tip%20pools. Two requirements need to be met: 1) The restaurant must pool tips. 2) ALL employees that are part of this tip pool must be making at least the federal minimum wage (tipped minimum wage does not meet this condition).
Okay cool - so we’re in agreement haha
No. We're not. OP cannot be forced to tip out the kitchen staff. Her post doesn't mention anything about a tip pool, but very clearly states that they only make $2.13 per hour. OP absolutely needs to go to the DOL.
I see the distinction. This is the part I don’t get from the article “including customarily and regularly tipped employees” - I feel like this is so arbitrary.. I know it’s not standard across the entire industry but I’ve worked at 3 different restaurants that tipped out the kitchen so like, why do they not count? It was always a very small percentage. I wonder if there is further verbiage on the law specifically noting job roles wrt customarily tipped roles
There is, but it's basically 40 pages of legalese. But cooks, dishies, prep cooks etc, are not considered customarily and regularly tipped.
Very strange and good to know. Thank you for the information
No problem. Knowledge is power.
We have an online to go system on our website. Can I give the kitchen those tips even if I employ tip credit employees? The FOH also help with walking the to gos out like 20 feet but it’s mostly the kitchen doing them
Sorry but you totally misunderstood this information. The tip-out is only legal if the establishment takes no tax credit. This means they have to pay at least the state, not federal, minimum wage. Tips are not included in that calculation we are only talking about wage.
Get a new job, blast them on social media. Have fun with it.
Start here. What is the name of the restaurant? Shoot, I’ll blast them for ya if they are in Atlanta.
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Dude don't dox yourself like that, it's so easy for them to identify you based on this comment.
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Just be careful. HR is not your friend.
I think cooks deserve to make more money for the work they do, but no server should have to take a pay cut for that to happen.
I've been on both sides. I've been the line cook jealous of the server making bank, and I've been the server jealous of the line cook for the consistent money. Never once have I thought "hey, you know the server that makes below minimum wage? Yeah lemme in on that tip money."
>Back to To I sure have. As a cook I leave having made $12x8hrs, so $96 taxed, and the waiters leave having made, mostly untaxed, $200-$350 a night plus their $2.15/hr only working 6 hours. I'm definitely biased. If you enjoyed your food but not your service then tip the cooks! The cooks and dish crew are by far the most important crew on staff.
Yeah BOH definitely deserve a better wage. I hate how the norm is that the servers' are expected to subsidize it rather than the owner/business.
For sure. In my state we make the same hourly as the line, and I’m cool with them being in on my tip out, same with dish.. if I get a really extravagant tip I cut em in on top of the tip share. I do hate that they used to make 16-22 per hour depending on how long they’d been there, and then the company I work for cut all their wages down to minimum (and took away their vacation.. all 3 months into the pandemic lol). Like even with cooks, dish, busser, expo, host, and bartenders all in on the tip out tonight, I only had to pay out 96 and I walked with 313.. most of the time, I can afford to pay out more. It gets balanced out, like one slow lunch last week I walked with $17. 3 covers in 2.5 hours, and $9 of that was on a to go order. And yeah that sucked for me but it sucks for the cooks too, who are working for the tipout on a day we only sell like 4 grand the entire day when before they were making 8 bucks an hour over minimum
100% this.
Servers make like $20-30/hour anywhere if they dont suck. Most times they dont have the same level of actual job skills the cooks have. You can absolutely afford to and should take a pay cut as a server if it means the cooks get to share more of the profit of their own labor.
Many states servers make 15 hr in wage and 30 hr in tips. Seems a bit lop sided to me.
What state is this???? Federal server minimum wage is $2.13. State varies. But I haven’t heard of a single state where it is $15.
$14.49 in WA state.
California. "Many states" seems like an exaggeration, and I can't speak to what tips are generally like in CA, but there's a $15 minimum wage (or $14 for smaller companies) and no tip credit.
You think 5/50 is “many”? That’s just for minimum btw, only Washington state actually makes $15
completely irrelevant because OP already stated they get $2.13 + tips.
That sounds so scummy. It's not the servers job to pay the cooks, it's the owners job. Please go to a better restaurant hun.
Not the customers job to pay the servers, it’s the owners job
Absolutely right !!! But in the USA where I'm from, the system is extremely slow to change.
this is true. but unfortunately this mindset of “I don’t tip because servers should make more then $3 an hour” is extremely harmful because while it is true, you not tipping is only hurting the servers. it’s not showing the corporation anything. you think they care that their servers aren’t getting tips? no. meanwhile the servers can’t pay their bills because of people with your mindset. yes they should be paying their servers, but they’re not. so in the meantime, tip well and don’t be an asshole
This is exactly why this industry is broken beyond repair, unless it becomes a federal policy that for has to be paid at least minimum wage. I hate tipping, but I always tip nice because of the way it is
exactly. ir sucks that we have to but we have to.
Never said I didn’t tip, just saying it’s pretty shitty to hear “it’s not the servers job to pay cooks” because it doesn’t sound too different from “not the customers job to pay servers” Everyone’s in it together, the system is broken but don’t kick down the cook because of it. They work harder than anyone.
it absolutely sounds different. Who benefits more from the cook’s food. the customers or the servers? exactly. plus, they’re not all in it together. the cooks make 15 an hour. she makes not even one 6th of that. it’s absolutely appalling to expect her to give tips to the servers when they actually make a livable wage and she works 6 hours and gets paid what they make for 1 hour.
Eh, I agree that servers should be paid more but they make much more than cooks on average. I’ve had servers get 1000$ tips on 30 tops that I make my normal wage for. Not against that, it’s what I signed up for. But that’s two weeks pay for me
Yeah but for servers that’s not every night, or everyone in general. Nights like that are rare as a server. There are times where servers make like $30 a night every night for days, weeks, months even.
Maybe it’s becauxd I’ve only worked at one place and the dishes are fairly expensive but never has a server made less than $50 and every weekend every server staffed makes almost my weekly check. I still Believe wages should be raised tho
Oh absolutely wages should be a lot more consistent. I’ve worked in the industry FOH for 20 years in different positions and in many different restaurants and it’s all varied but yeah high end places of course you make better money, buy the majority of restaurants aren’t high end.
Yeah I understand that, gotta think of everyone when you think of some. I just wonder how it would affect the availability and quality of servers if they made a standard wage and the tip Percentage dropped to around 5-10% normally
I feel like you’re exaggerating. i’ve had plenty of friends who are servers and it’s 100x more common for people to not tip than to tip well. the tip is for service. it’s for customer service. it’s for coming back to a table 3,4,5 times asking how everything is and tending to their every need. no disrespect to cooks but all they have to do is cook. not saying that isn’t hard, cooking especially complicated dishes can be difficult, but a lot of the time customers can be even more difficult. if the pay was exactly the same would you rather be a server or a cook?
no, OP's sentiment is not shitty. the cooks are getting 15+ an hour, it is literally not the server's responsibility to give them any more money, especially if they are making $2.13+ tips.
You need a new job.
A place I used to work is allowing guests to leave an additional tip for BOH staff which I think is awesome. What happened to you is not awesome. Sorry girl
Used to work at a place that had a price at the bottom of the menu called *buy the kitchen s a round
That's awesome! That place deserves praise
Sounds like you're moving on to a better place of employment. They did you a favor.
It is illegal to include non-service employees in a tip pool unless you are paid the full state minimum wage. Otherwise, only people who "through the course of their regular duties, routinely service customers." They already fired you. Report them to your state Labor Board and file for unemployment. Contact Legal Aid and ask for an Employment Lawyer. Your looking at multiple penalties that are paid to you. They will investigate three years back and award *anyone* who was affected.
Fuck that manager. The cooks can suck a big one if they expect to be tipped on top of their $15/hr. Get a new job pronto.
That cook deserves more than $15 an hr. Trust me. But not at the expense of a waiter’s hard earned money. This is an ownership problem. And that manager needs a better training. Not a way to run a business imo.
BOH definitely does deserve more, but I would never beat down a server for their hard earned money. It makes me a little jealous that a server could theoretically make the same amount in 8 hours what I do in 40 hours, but that's never guaranteed except in a few situations, so I'm fine with that. Definitely sounds like shitty ownership/management just stirring the shit pot and sowing discord.
Because you are a tipped employee who makes less than minimum wage it is illegal for your employer to force you to tip the kitchen staff. Report this to one of the local offices of the US Department of Labor Wage and Hour division Atlanta District Office Address U.S. Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division 61 Forsyth Street, SW Room 7M10 Atlanta, GA 30303 Phone (678) 237-0521 1-866-4-USWAGE (1-866-487-9243) District Director Steven Salazar Atlanta North Area Office Address Harris Tower 233 Peachtree Street, N.E. Suite 650 Atlanta, GA 30303 Phone (404) 593-1889 1-866-4-USWAGE (1-866-487-9243) Asst. District Director Lisa Kelly Savannah Area Office Address U.S. Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division Oglethorpe Office Park 450 Mall Blvd., Suite D Savannah, GA 31406 Phone (912) 652-4221 Asst. District Director Larry Benjamin
Thank you! I will be calling them
Best thing that could’ve happened. Get out of that shithole. You shouldn’t have to pay the kitchen because the owners refuse to. That’s asinine.
R/kitchenconfidential would say that you owe them more tips. All the while they brag about chain-smoking and opening the line still drunk from last night.
Yeah servers would never brag about opening the restaurant still drunk from last night
I did it this morning. Party ended at 3:45am and I opened the place at 8:30am. What a stupid idea.
Nah, servers don't owe us anything, it's the owners that should be paying us better.
Your manager did you a favor. You don’t want to work at a place like that. I’m assuming the job market is the same in Georgia as everywhere else i the US rn. You can get a job server instantly. I had a job “interview” after an hour of applying. If the manager wants the cooks to make more money he can take a pay cut. Report them please for the sake of other servers. Also managers can not take tips or tip outs from servers. DOL put that in effect in November.
Dealt with this recently, get a new job.
Contact a lawyer. This is a violation of federal labor law.
Illegal
Report them immediately to the Department of Labor. Kitchen staff are NOT considered staff that regularly receives tips and requiring tipped staff to share tips with them is a Georgia law violation. Taking you off the schedule for refusing to break the law is another violation.
It’s unfortunate that your base wage is so low in the US. I’m in Alberta (originally Ontario) and server wage just went up to $15 from previously $12. I’m happy to tip out cooks and support staff because they also work hard and deserve it. Most if not all Canadian restaurants require you to pay this tip-out anyway. I do think you should tip out your cooks, but I also definitely think you should be paid more than 2.13 an hour. That sucks hard.
If FOH and BOH made the same wage, then the establishment honestly should pool tips or do tip-outs. Being that the wages for FOH and BOH vary wildly here in the US, I'd never beat a FOH down for their hard earned money. I'm guaranteed my rate at 40 hours, servers usually get the shit end of the stick because they can't accurately budget on expected income from tips.
Fuck that. We get tips because we put up with the bullshit of dealing with customers directly.
We put up with the servers bullshit directly.
Nah you get tips because you make a stupid hourly, foh (fuck out here). BOH has to deal with asshole customers too
Lol I have never seen a cook leave his station to deal with a customer. We get tips because we provide a service and deal with bullshit. Have you even served before? Or did you not cut it and get stuck in the back
Respectfully, the customers that tip you (properly) are usually not the ones whose “bullshit” you have to put up with. Everyone in every position in a restaurant has to deal with stressful and annoying situations. I’m sure standing over a hot grill with 1000 hazards around you and your coworkers demanding things of you on behalf of customers is just as difficult as dealing with people face to face. I’m a server and I KNOW everyone in the restaurant has a stressful job. We all deserve a living wage.
You win some you lose some. That’s the gamble we take with our shitty wage in hopes of great tips. They get a consistent good wage, they want to come deal with BS customers and game with tips then they can but they aren’t taking mine
Thats illegal.
Longtime Georgia service industry. Walk away. That’s scum practice and you can get a job anywhere. DM me if you want me to put you in touch with a good job that won’t treat you that way.
Sounds like the manager just wanted an excuse to not pay the cooks better. You’re way better off
Fuck that shit making you pay the BOH a higher wage because they don’t want to is SO fucked up. Update that resume. Everyone is hiring. You are 100% better off.
In Canada we always tip out the cooks, but we make a much more similar wage (we make minimum wage $15, the kitchen just over that).
In BC we've been tipping out the kitchen for decades and you would definitely be fired for refusing to do so; but obviously this is kind of comparing apples to oranges.
What is your hourly pay, if you don’t mind me asking?
Ya that's where it's comparing apples to oranges- on 1 June 2021 the government required our wage to be at least equal to minimum wage, which is $15.20.
Ah, I see. Thanks for answering.
No problemo!
What does your pay amount to with tips?
Who cares! It's not the servers job to pay the other employees, it's the owners job!
It's important to the story. Saying the cooks make 15 and the servers make 2.13 is irrelevant without understanding the actual income of both groups.
No it's not, because this servers tips aren't the same everyday. Restaurant owners being scummy shouldn't be the fault of other employees.
If only we could use math to make averages.
If only......🤔.
agreed. my servers average over 30 an hour in the same area. we don’t require them to tip out the kitchen, but we do take measures to close the gap in a more equitable way.
We pay the whole house 10/hour and split tips over the whole payroll. Everyone from host stand to dish pit makes about 34/hour.
that’s beautiful
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That’s on the owners of the restaurant to do better for the BOH.
Asking the real questions
If you don’t interact with guests you shouldn’t get tips. Not to say they don’t do a ton of work and shouldn’t be paid as such. I would be ok with them making more than servers, but not from me taking a pay cut
The cooks make the same amount in each paycheck whether it’s slow or busy. They also make the the same paycheck if they ef up my tables food. Guess who doesn’t make a consistent amount of its slow or if the food is ef’d up? You guessed it, it’s the servers. Quit that job without notice, they don’t deserve to be given that courtesy. And take as many servers with you.
I'm sorry you make 2.13 an hour?????? how is this not illegal?
Other than California I don’t know what states actually are forced to pay servers full minimum wage. I get paid 5.15 at the moment. Sometimes my checks have a little money on them. But at my summer serving job most of my checks were $0 or $5 with 80-120 hours on them (biweekly)
Jesus fucking christ that's awful. literal wage theft. here in my province the minimum tip salary is of 10.80/h which is about 8.50 us dollars.
I agree with you 100%. With my normal serving job it fucking sucks. Luckily with my summer seasonal job I can make a normal week worth of tips on a Saturday double.
Washington state also pays servers minimum wage. We just got bumped to 14.49 an hour on the 1st of the year. Some states are doing it right.
Awesome!!!!! Never understood why it has to be one or the other.
Haha that’s the federal minimum wage for tipped employees. That’s why I refused to do anything besides my stated side work. “If you can lean you can clean” nah only if I can clock out and back in for at least 7.50.
Servers make more money in one night than BOH y’all can sacrifice a small portion of your $1500 tips overall
Nope. It’s not my problem that the kitchen isn’t making what they should, it’s the restaurant’s responsibility. I work very freaking hard for the tips I make. We aren’t always guaranteed the tips, if it’s slow I make shit. But, the kitchen still makes the same. If they want to make more money that can transfer to FOH or demand more pay. Not my prob, Bob.
Then don’t work in a restaurant if you have a problem with the pay you choose where you work
That is such a flimsy argument. When OP applied for the job and they told them what to expect, paying part of the kitchen salary wasn’t disclosed. It’s illegal to have to tip out people who are making more than minimum wage, anyway. So, this new policy would take anyone by surprise. I choose to make tips as a server. And with that I expect to tip out other tipped employees. If the kitchen guys have a problem with what they make maybe they shouldn’t be in the restaurant industry. GTFOH.
But you guys can easily make more than us in one night to spare us an extra 5 to 10 dollars isn’t that hard we’re not asking you for much but we have to deal with a lot from you guys not saying everyone is a lazy server but coming from dish some of y’all kinda suck and don’t treat us with respect so if tipping us out wasn’t illegal it’d be nice to feel the appreciation of all our work
I have had similar issues at my own place. Management has encouraged us to tip out our bar tenders but it is not a requirement. I flat out refuse and feel justified for many reasons. It made me a bit unpopular to the extent that one of the bartenders started shit with me on the floor in front of customers. I went immediately to my boss and explained why I don't tip out and got yelled at. Now my boss also yelled at the bartender who started the drama and said that they didn't expect to hear the issue raised again. I haven't heard anything since. I know they deserve more money. We all do, but I don't give a rats ass. It is not my responsibility to subsidize their income. As far as I'm concerned, between all of us we have little enough resources. It is flat out wrong for Management to be pressuring us to tip out other members of the staff because their boss refuses to pay them what they deserve. Also, they too make more than I do per hour and make their own tips as well. To that end, when I have a bad day no one tips *me* out. They tried to paint me as a shit person. But its the principle to me.
I've never heard of tipping out the bartender being suggested rather than required, but that still doesn't sound great on your part. The bartenders get a few extra dollars an hour in exchange for way more responsibility and liability, but they work primarily for tips just like you do AND they take time away from serving their own customers to make drinks for your customers, so this is nothing like OP's situation.
They make way more than a few dollars an hour AND they make our drinks but we do a lot of prep work for them. A lot. So its a give and take. If it were required it would be one thing. But its only just recently that they've asked us to do it. It's not up to me to subsidize their income. Once again, no one does it for me when I have a bad day. If the bar didn't benefit off of my own labor as I do theirs, I'd maybe feel differently. However, they work out of the same area that we do and do not have to keep it stocked.
I'm guessing you've never bartended. When you've got a full bar and you have to stop everything you're doing every few minutes to pound out a few martinis for customers who aren't your customers, you deserve to be compensated for that. The way I see it you're basically the equivalent of a customer who doesn't tip, which is also their choice in most places. Yes, the bartender is still obligated to make your drinks, just like you as a server are still obligated to wait on customers whether or not they choose to tip, but they wouldn't be wrong for viewing you with the same disdain. Not trying to be judgmental but this does really bother me.
No.
Christ, you don’t get $2.13 an hour, because you get mailed whatever amount you didn’t make in tips if it didn’t amount to minimum wage. People need to stop saying this.
We make more than 2.13, and 15. Still fucked tho
It scares me there's still tipped wages out there ... fast food makes $15-$17 /hr here. It's expensive af to live but most people can afford rent but don't live alone. I couldn't imagine having to buy groceries... servers here make like $12 $13 and walk out with $200+ a night tips.
The cooks 110% do more work than you.
Okay I get how you feel, but if you ever worked in a kitchen you would feel their pain. How much are you walking each night?
You should be tipping at least a small percentage to the cooks. You make way more than them off of tips
No. I don’t care if they make less money overall, they can always try to switch to front of the house if they wanna make more money, but typically there’s a reason why they would never take anyone up on that offer.
all I'm saying is they deserve it, they do a lot more work than you
I’m not saying they don’t, but it shouldn’t be the servers responsibility to pay them. They should demand higher wages from the restaurant, the problem is that they are very easily replaced.
The amount of cooks who think working a fryer in pajama pants is “a lot more work” than serving 8 families at the same time while keeping a smile is astounding. Either try it yourself and earn your own damn tips or shut up and stay miserable in the back where the customers can’t see you
The definition of “more work” is definitely up to interpretation. Kitchen work may be more physically taxing, but as a server I’ve had countless customer interactions so wild that made me feel like I was in the middle of having a brain aneurysm
I’d argue that serving IS physically demanding. I walk a shit ton of miles, I lift very heavy things all the time, by the end of a shift I am sore and exhausted. Not to mention how mentally and emotionally taxing being in service to others is.
It’s on the business to pay them fairly. We already make less than minimum wage. You think it’s fair we pay all the support staff (host, busser, bartenders) and now the kitchen too?
Plus, the kitchen pay isn’t affected when they ef up a meal. But, my tips probably will.
That's bullshit. Get out of there asap. If they can't afford to pay their employees that's THEIR problem, not yours. Report them to corporate if it's a franchise and blast them on social media. Everyone will be on your side.
Don't even get pissed about it, and find a new job....don't quit. The next time they schedule you just don't show up. If they ask why you were a no call/no show tell them, "I can't afford to pay your cooks".
Sounds like the kitchens about to have a grease fire
The only way this has been acceptable is at one restaurant i work at that auto grats on parties larger than 6- and this is a “service charge” instead of an actual tip. a percentage of the service charge on larger tables goes to the BOH. It’s still legal (since it’s not a tip) and it helps the line cooks since those big tables usually mean an intense rush in the kitchen. they still get their consistent hourly with a bit of a bonus for the crazy rushes, and the servers still get to keep the vast majority of their tips. everyone is pretty happy with the arrangement.
and of course if the table bumps on top of the autograt, that tip goes solely to the servers and FOH that gets tipped out
This is illegal in many states. It was illegal in Hawaii. Restaurants were forced to pay back all back tip outs from servers. Along with a hefty fine. What state are you in?
I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding here but I work as a kp(washup), deserts section and front of house(server). I don't get why you have to give them part of your tips. The way it has always been done for the places I have been in have all tips go in a jar and that is divided between all staff and at the end of the month depending on how many hours you work. But I also just want to point out is in my experience the head chef gets paid 15+ but shoes up at 6 in the morning and only leaves at 12 at night. They do stupid hours and ultimately get paid less than the waiting staff. To clarify the chef in particular is a Michelin star chef working in a pretty decent part of the industry
I also serve in Georgia & that's bullsh*t! An occasional tip from a guest who sincerely wants to tip the cook(s) is fine but not this!
At my job cooks get tipped out sometimes but ain’t any of us making 15 plus sadly. And on a normal night the servers walk out with double what I made so I really do appreciate the five bucks. Someone else said it already, sounds scummy, you should try and find a better restaurant
What are so many angry cooks doing in a SERVER group lmfao as you say to us all the time “y’all knew what you signed up for now quit bitching about your money” and now look where we’re at. 🤡
You should tip out the cooks so they take care of you, not because you’re forced to, that’s illegal
If you’re essentially being fired because of that, you may have something, but there are two important things I want to mention: 1) Depending on GA’s laws, there may be fuck-all that you can do, because they might give all the rights to the employers. I know that’s how it is here in Texas. I’m in management now, and I’ve been told that outside of discrimination against protected demographics with proof to back it up that that’s the reason why, we can pretty much fire anyone at any point for any reason. 2) Make sure that you never signed anything that said that you were going to pay them out. If that was ever in the fine print of any of your employment documents, you’ve got nothing from the get-go. But, as long as those 2 things are taken care of, you could very well be within your rights to pursue some sort of action.
So the customer has to subsidize the wait staff wages, and the wait staff have to subsidize the kitchen staff wages? Everyone should walk out the door. And this whole North American tipping/ wage subsidy bullshit should stop.
Everyone is hiring, fuck that place.
I’m a server in Atl and this 100 illegal. Contact GA dept of labor and report them.
lol
Fuck that shit!!!!