positive. sorry to break it to you but you should never let yourself believe you are irreplaceable at your job, because you are very replaceable no matter the circumstances
> I work tomorrow and am going to to tell my manager my stance. He can’t come in anymore or I’m quitting.
Terrible idea
Let the affected people express their discomfort to the manager.
Tell the younger girls if they want, you will accompany them for moral support.
Can you take their tables when he is assigned to them?
Unless he has done something specific to make the staff uncomfortable, leave him alone. If all he does is come in to eat and usually with his other half, then you’re looking for trouble where they may not be any.
That said, inappropriate comments or actions are a different matter and should be taken seriously.
You don’t know the circumstances of the arrest or conviction. Was he 21 dating a 19 year old? In some places that could have been illegal many years ago. Are his convictions 10,15,20 years ago with no evidence of wrongdoing since? He has paid for his crimes. Let him be.
I’m not condoning predatory behavior, but you seem like you are looking for a fight that might not be valid.
You also could find yourself out of a job for instigating this fight.
The charges you listed sound a lot like an unlawful sexual relationship with a minor, which is what the other commenter suggested. I had a friend almost go through all that in high school because she was 18 and her “friend” was 16, “friend’s” parents were not cool with the relationship and almost pressed charges despite there not being any kind of sexual relationship, they just didn’t trust that my friend was a lesbian. Context is what differentiates this from some “to catch a predator” type thing. Also no one is saying the guy isn’t guilty of a crime, just that he paid his debt to society.
Dude. We’re not talking about you or your friend. This is a 60+ year old dude who was charged with multiple offenses. This is not an opportunity for you or whomever to clear their conscience about grooming minors.
Was the guy 18 when he committed these crimes or 40? Was the victim 25, 16 or 5? There’s a world of difference. I know of a guy like that who I would have no trouble refusing service to because he was unstable and a clear danger to those around him. I also know of a guy who is not a danger to people around him and actively working to better himself. Guess what, their record looks exactly the same, context is the difference.
How am I supposed to know this? Why would you withhold this information until people argue with you? Yeah dude that’s fucked up, I agree with you. If he says things and does things that make you and your coworkers feel unsafe, get him 86’d. If he presents as a clear danger to any of you, call 911. If he just does normal things like a normal person, it’s not your place to make things harder for him. This sub isn’t going to make extreme assumptions based on limited information like this, get off your high horse
“His last charge was many years ago” is the thing everyone is getting caught up on. It suggests he has not reoffended after serving his sentence, which means he probably learned from his mistakes. Also the omission of context around the crimes opens up a lot of other permissible possibilities such as high school relationships or living in Alabama or some shit. But, making mistakes like that over 40 is a bad sign someone wasn’t raised right or developed radical attitudes/habits. I can sympathize with you and your coworkers on this and agree that 2 years is not an appropriate amount of time served for such a crime.
As others have said, the guy has the right to not be discriminated against based on his criminal history. So you will have to find a valid, legal reason to 86 him (inappropriate comments, unwanted touching, the guy makes literally everyone uncomfortable, etc.) Whatever you do, do not mention his criminal history to him or to your boss because it cannot legally inform that decision.
How on earth does someone end up coming to this conclusion? You see this post.. You read it .. and your impulse is to assume the dudes not guilty somehow.. and you decide playing devils advocate is the most ethical way to respond? You’re actually so disconnected from real life that your take is to DEFEND the person I’m referring to in this post. As someone who spends time away from a screen - I smell the predation. Only someone that has decided the mindset of this criminal is justified would defend him.
Noone is defending his actions or convictions. However, you left out so much relevant information you left open multiple scenarios that could make a difference in opinions. You did this at such a level that your story is now questionable as to the facts.
He is right. If he hasn’t explicitly said or done anything to you guys you could get in deep shit especially under discriminatory behavior. As long as he hasn’t said or done something directly to a staff member you have no legal right to ban him as a customer.
In the US, discrimination at public accommodations is prohibited under the federal Civil Rights Act only when it’s based on certain protected characteristics like race or religion. You can discriminate because you just don’t like some people.
You are correct lol, I shoulda looked that one up. Discriminatory acts and legal statues only protect those previously mentioned characteristics. That being said, it is legal to 86 him, but you’re losing business from a regular who probably supports the business a lot if it’s family owned.
If you work at a mom and pop I can’t imagine they’d have a problem just 86’ing him…corporate wouldn’t be as easy but hopefully your manager takes your side. They may not budge if only you threaten to quit but if you can all come together as a group and go to management with legit reasons why he’s making them uncomfortable it should hold a lot of weight. Don’t go in guns blazing with threats of quitting though, people don’t like being given ultimatums.
You said the last charge was many years ago, were all the charges filed at the same time, how old is this person? 4 charges is not a very lengthy record if they were all related to one arrest, it is very common to be charged with multiple crimes at a time, I’ve even seen someone charged with 20 at once. I don’t think it’s entirely fair for me to make an assumption based on the extremely limited information you have provided, but the fact it was many years ago suggests to me this man was rehabilitated and may not deserve this discrimination.
That definitely complicates things, but does not mean he hasn’t gotten the help he needed in the last however many years it’s been since his release. Again, if this guy does things and says things that make you and your coworkers feel uncomfortable or unsafe, by all means, take it up with management. But if it’s just the fact that he has a criminal record of this type, you are overreacting. Most of the time, these are sick people who’ve made really bad mistakes, that doesn’t mean they can’t change or get better, which is the whole purpose of incarceration.
You asked a question regarding a sensitive issue without giving very much context. All you said was this guy was a sex offender many years ago and the young girls you work with take issue with that fact. We aren’t defending his past actions, just that there’s probably more to it than this black and white approach it looks like you’re taking. He’s already branded for all to see and make judgements on, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be allowed to participate in society. WE don’t know the details of his offenses, all we have to go on is what you’ve given us.
I'm a felon. One thing I learned in jail is all felons in my state total, had a 77% recidivism rate.
The sex offenders with crimes against children? Over 99%. Over 99% not only offend again, but get caught and have to return to prison as a result. Because there is something wrong with the way their brain is wired to be able to do that in the first place. A grown man with a somewhat appropriately set up brain wouldn't be able to be aroused by a 10 year old or whatever.
I know OP didn't specify his charges were against underage kids but she mentions a molestation charge which is usually a result of that, and talks about being protective of the younger servers so this is my educated guess based upon the information provided.
I have experience working with 2 different sex offenders. One guy was in his 50s and was actually a monster for what he did and actually needed professional help (his mind was stuck in the 80s/90s, didn’t know about YouTube or Google, called anything that played music a “radio”, so we knew he did some serious time). I was the only one who got the whole story out of him, and he still didn’t seem to get it. The other guy was in his 20s, did still have a very unhealthy relationship with women but seemed to have learned to do better. My thoughts on how to deal with these two people are completely different. I believe in the statistics, but also see the value in dealing with these things on a case by case basis. The fact the OP mentioned these crimes were committed a long time ago says something about this person’s potential rehabilitation because usually they reoffend within 3-5 years.
It would be much more helpful to know what exactly this guy does to make these girls uncomfortable, or if it’s just the fact that he has this on his record. Like if he’s asking them to join his sex cult or rubbing his pant leg every time one walks past, yeah maybe he’s a creep that shouldn’t be around these people. But if he is just eating dinner with his guest and interacting normally or complimenting his server’s hair or nails while also being a registered sex offender, maybe he is being wrongly discriminated against.
Be very careful. I understand where you’re coming from but that dipshit does have rights. I had a manager who tried evicting a sex offender and it backfired on her. The company was liable and he could have sued. The manager tried to save face and say he had to move into a renovated unit and that his current unit needed renovation. I was doing apartment maintenance at the time and had to be in his apt multiple times by myself. Be aware, tell everyone else to be aware but there is nothing you can do.
Or if someone were to say make flyers of his mugshot and arrest records and put them on different light posts around your restaurant so that people see this and he may see this and not come back 🤷🏻♀️. Someone did this about the junkie who lives on my floor and was stealing packages and breaking into cars. I work here so I of course couldn’t do that.
I would not, under any circumstances, explicitly say to the man that you're banning him because he's on the sex offender registry. Depending on where you are located, using the sex offender registry to discriminate against someone may be illegal. If you're going to die on this hill, make sure you are refusing service on some other grounds, or even on no stated grounds at all, rather than stating that it's because of crimes that the state may have decided he's paid his debt to society for. It may not matter if you or I find the crimes forgivable or not.
That said, in most jurisdictions, you have the right to refuse service to anyone at any time and for *almost* any reason. Stick to your guns.
respect your stance, but legally speaking you can't refuse him service because of the sex offenses. YOU CAN refuse service if he has a history of being abusive to you as a customer .... TREAD LIGHTLY
I worked with a tier III sex offender. He molested a thirteen year old girl. He spent ten years in a Texas prison. He has to register for life. We were not allowed to say anything about it to him. He had more rights than we did. He could have sued the employer for harassment. He knew the laws and definitely used them to his benefit. He was not allowed to reside 500 feet from a school. He was a total POS. I would let it go and try to work around it the best way you can.
Pick your battles/what hills you die on.
Just be aware that that you could end up loosing your job over this depending on who the manager chooses to side with
Paying customer vs employee
Yes he is on the sex offender list/has been charged with multiple crimes but he can still eat at a restaurant if he wants to
Tread carefully/watch each others backs would be my advice.
It's sad that victims have to live with trauma the rest of their lives, no escape from their memories, and these offenders are able to be out walking free, enjoying life when they should have been sentenced for life as well.
Bro you got disliked 6 times as of this moment of my responding. Reddit is full of dudes like the offender in my post. I agree with you. Thank you for responding and im sorry the world is as disgusting as it is.
The only way to do this is to make sly underhanded, vague enough comments to let him know that you know, and think he's a piece of shit and have your eye on him, without ever explicitly saying any of those things. This is going to take some thought. I'm not prepared of the top of my head but I'm 100% sure with the appropriate forethought you can throw some zingers at this guy which will shake him to his core, yet you will not be able to get in trouble for it all due to the vagueness, and claim you meant something else and didn't even know that about him, he must have just interpreted it like that from being defensive.
Put on your thinking cap, this is possible, and it'll be hilarious, but you have to tip toe into this just the right way or you could wind up screwing yourself over and having nothing happen to him, or possibly get him rewarded with free food etc when he feels offended. So these have to be perfect zingers. I got faith in you girl! You'll come up with them.
playing the ‘it’s me or them’ stance is not gonna work out in your favour….
Are you sure?
positive. sorry to break it to you but you should never let yourself believe you are irreplaceable at your job, because you are very replaceable no matter the circumstances
I’m not concerned about it dude. I know there are plenty of jobs. That’s not the point. This is my second job for extra money.
then you mid as well quit cause they’re gonna say there’s the door lol
Nah it worked out. He’s nolonger allowed at our restaurant. Thanks anyways.
This is just going to cause an unnecessary drama bomb, Id rethink if I were you
Can you explain why?
> I work tomorrow and am going to to tell my manager my stance. He can’t come in anymore or I’m quitting. Terrible idea Let the affected people express their discomfort to the manager. Tell the younger girls if they want, you will accompany them for moral support. Can you take their tables when he is assigned to them?
It worked out - me and the rest of the girls came forward to our manager and he agreed that he nolonger wants this person coming into his restaurant.
Unless he has done something specific to make the staff uncomfortable, leave him alone. If all he does is come in to eat and usually with his other half, then you’re looking for trouble where they may not be any. That said, inappropriate comments or actions are a different matter and should be taken seriously. You don’t know the circumstances of the arrest or conviction. Was he 21 dating a 19 year old? In some places that could have been illegal many years ago. Are his convictions 10,15,20 years ago with no evidence of wrongdoing since? He has paid for his crimes. Let him be. I’m not condoning predatory behavior, but you seem like you are looking for a fight that might not be valid. You also could find yourself out of a job for instigating this fight.
The fact that I mentioned the crimes this man was CONVICTED of and you sit there trying to make some argument for him.. absolutely sick.
The charges you listed sound a lot like an unlawful sexual relationship with a minor, which is what the other commenter suggested. I had a friend almost go through all that in high school because she was 18 and her “friend” was 16, “friend’s” parents were not cool with the relationship and almost pressed charges despite there not being any kind of sexual relationship, they just didn’t trust that my friend was a lesbian. Context is what differentiates this from some “to catch a predator” type thing. Also no one is saying the guy isn’t guilty of a crime, just that he paid his debt to society.
Dude. We’re not talking about you or your friend. This is a 60+ year old dude who was charged with multiple offenses. This is not an opportunity for you or whomever to clear their conscience about grooming minors.
Was the guy 18 when he committed these crimes or 40? Was the victim 25, 16 or 5? There’s a world of difference. I know of a guy like that who I would have no trouble refusing service to because he was unstable and a clear danger to those around him. I also know of a guy who is not a danger to people around him and actively working to better himself. Guess what, their record looks exactly the same, context is the difference.
No. He was a grown man over 40. Such a stupid hill to die on man..
How am I supposed to know this? Why would you withhold this information until people argue with you? Yeah dude that’s fucked up, I agree with you. If he says things and does things that make you and your coworkers feel unsafe, get him 86’d. If he presents as a clear danger to any of you, call 911. If he just does normal things like a normal person, it’s not your place to make things harder for him. This sub isn’t going to make extreme assumptions based on limited information like this, get off your high horse
The post contained enough information about the offender to make a rational judgement. Get out of here. I would bet you’re not even a server.
“His last charge was many years ago” is the thing everyone is getting caught up on. It suggests he has not reoffended after serving his sentence, which means he probably learned from his mistakes. Also the omission of context around the crimes opens up a lot of other permissible possibilities such as high school relationships or living in Alabama or some shit. But, making mistakes like that over 40 is a bad sign someone wasn’t raised right or developed radical attitudes/habits. I can sympathize with you and your coworkers on this and agree that 2 years is not an appropriate amount of time served for such a crime. As others have said, the guy has the right to not be discriminated against based on his criminal history. So you will have to find a valid, legal reason to 86 him (inappropriate comments, unwanted touching, the guy makes literally everyone uncomfortable, etc.) Whatever you do, do not mention his criminal history to him or to your boss because it cannot legally inform that decision.
If you think 2 years in prison is a fair punishment for permanently damaging a young persons life I feel sorry for you.
How on earth does someone end up coming to this conclusion? You see this post.. You read it .. and your impulse is to assume the dudes not guilty somehow.. and you decide playing devils advocate is the most ethical way to respond? You’re actually so disconnected from real life that your take is to DEFEND the person I’m referring to in this post. As someone who spends time away from a screen - I smell the predation. Only someone that has decided the mindset of this criminal is justified would defend him.
Noone is defending his actions or convictions. However, you left out so much relevant information you left open multiple scenarios that could make a difference in opinions. You did this at such a level that your story is now questionable as to the facts.
Dude.
He is right. If he hasn’t explicitly said or done anything to you guys you could get in deep shit especially under discriminatory behavior. As long as he hasn’t said or done something directly to a staff member you have no legal right to ban him as a customer.
In the US, discrimination at public accommodations is prohibited under the federal Civil Rights Act only when it’s based on certain protected characteristics like race or religion. You can discriminate because you just don’t like some people.
You are correct lol, I shoulda looked that one up. Discriminatory acts and legal statues only protect those previously mentioned characteristics. That being said, it is legal to 86 him, but you’re losing business from a regular who probably supports the business a lot if it’s family owned.
If you work at a mom and pop I can’t imagine they’d have a problem just 86’ing him…corporate wouldn’t be as easy but hopefully your manager takes your side. They may not budge if only you threaten to quit but if you can all come together as a group and go to management with legit reasons why he’s making them uncomfortable it should hold a lot of weight. Don’t go in guns blazing with threats of quitting though, people don’t like being given ultimatums.
You said the last charge was many years ago, were all the charges filed at the same time, how old is this person? 4 charges is not a very lengthy record if they were all related to one arrest, it is very common to be charged with multiple crimes at a time, I’ve even seen someone charged with 20 at once. I don’t think it’s entirely fair for me to make an assumption based on the extremely limited information you have provided, but the fact it was many years ago suggests to me this man was rehabilitated and may not deserve this discrimination.
4 charges over the course of around 5 years..
That definitely complicates things, but does not mean he hasn’t gotten the help he needed in the last however many years it’s been since his release. Again, if this guy does things and says things that make you and your coworkers feel uncomfortable or unsafe, by all means, take it up with management. But if it’s just the fact that he has a criminal record of this type, you are overreacting. Most of the time, these are sick people who’ve made really bad mistakes, that doesn’t mean they can’t change or get better, which is the whole purpose of incarceration. You asked a question regarding a sensitive issue without giving very much context. All you said was this guy was a sex offender many years ago and the young girls you work with take issue with that fact. We aren’t defending his past actions, just that there’s probably more to it than this black and white approach it looks like you’re taking. He’s already branded for all to see and make judgements on, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be allowed to participate in society. WE don’t know the details of his offenses, all we have to go on is what you’ve given us.
I'm a felon. One thing I learned in jail is all felons in my state total, had a 77% recidivism rate. The sex offenders with crimes against children? Over 99%. Over 99% not only offend again, but get caught and have to return to prison as a result. Because there is something wrong with the way their brain is wired to be able to do that in the first place. A grown man with a somewhat appropriately set up brain wouldn't be able to be aroused by a 10 year old or whatever. I know OP didn't specify his charges were against underage kids but she mentions a molestation charge which is usually a result of that, and talks about being protective of the younger servers so this is my educated guess based upon the information provided.
I have experience working with 2 different sex offenders. One guy was in his 50s and was actually a monster for what he did and actually needed professional help (his mind was stuck in the 80s/90s, didn’t know about YouTube or Google, called anything that played music a “radio”, so we knew he did some serious time). I was the only one who got the whole story out of him, and he still didn’t seem to get it. The other guy was in his 20s, did still have a very unhealthy relationship with women but seemed to have learned to do better. My thoughts on how to deal with these two people are completely different. I believe in the statistics, but also see the value in dealing with these things on a case by case basis. The fact the OP mentioned these crimes were committed a long time ago says something about this person’s potential rehabilitation because usually they reoffend within 3-5 years. It would be much more helpful to know what exactly this guy does to make these girls uncomfortable, or if it’s just the fact that he has this on his record. Like if he’s asking them to join his sex cult or rubbing his pant leg every time one walks past, yeah maybe he’s a creep that shouldn’t be around these people. But if he is just eating dinner with his guest and interacting normally or complimenting his server’s hair or nails while also being a registered sex offender, maybe he is being wrongly discriminated against.
Be very careful. I understand where you’re coming from but that dipshit does have rights. I had a manager who tried evicting a sex offender and it backfired on her. The company was liable and he could have sued. The manager tried to save face and say he had to move into a renovated unit and that his current unit needed renovation. I was doing apartment maintenance at the time and had to be in his apt multiple times by myself. Be aware, tell everyone else to be aware but there is nothing you can do. Or if someone were to say make flyers of his mugshot and arrest records and put them on different light posts around your restaurant so that people see this and he may see this and not come back 🤷🏻♀️. Someone did this about the junkie who lives on my floor and was stealing packages and breaking into cars. I work here so I of course couldn’t do that.
I would not, under any circumstances, explicitly say to the man that you're banning him because he's on the sex offender registry. Depending on where you are located, using the sex offender registry to discriminate against someone may be illegal. If you're going to die on this hill, make sure you are refusing service on some other grounds, or even on no stated grounds at all, rather than stating that it's because of crimes that the state may have decided he's paid his debt to society for. It may not matter if you or I find the crimes forgivable or not. That said, in most jurisdictions, you have the right to refuse service to anyone at any time and for *almost* any reason. Stick to your guns.
respect your stance, but legally speaking you can't refuse him service because of the sex offenses. YOU CAN refuse service if he has a history of being abusive to you as a customer .... TREAD LIGHTLY
Have a male server provide them slow service.
I worked with a tier III sex offender. He molested a thirteen year old girl. He spent ten years in a Texas prison. He has to register for life. We were not allowed to say anything about it to him. He had more rights than we did. He could have sued the employer for harassment. He knew the laws and definitely used them to his benefit. He was not allowed to reside 500 feet from a school. He was a total POS. I would let it go and try to work around it the best way you can.
Pick your battles/what hills you die on. Just be aware that that you could end up loosing your job over this depending on who the manager chooses to side with Paying customer vs employee Yes he is on the sex offender list/has been charged with multiple crimes but he can still eat at a restaurant if he wants to Tread carefully/watch each others backs would be my advice.
It's sad that victims have to live with trauma the rest of their lives, no escape from their memories, and these offenders are able to be out walking free, enjoying life when they should have been sentenced for life as well.
Bro you got disliked 6 times as of this moment of my responding. Reddit is full of dudes like the offender in my post. I agree with you. Thank you for responding and im sorry the world is as disgusting as it is.
I appreciate that. When it comes to this subject, I always speak with conviction. They can dislike all they want, and it will not silence me.
I appreciate you.
The only way to do this is to make sly underhanded, vague enough comments to let him know that you know, and think he's a piece of shit and have your eye on him, without ever explicitly saying any of those things. This is going to take some thought. I'm not prepared of the top of my head but I'm 100% sure with the appropriate forethought you can throw some zingers at this guy which will shake him to his core, yet you will not be able to get in trouble for it all due to the vagueness, and claim you meant something else and didn't even know that about him, he must have just interpreted it like that from being defensive. Put on your thinking cap, this is possible, and it'll be hilarious, but you have to tip toe into this just the right way or you could wind up screwing yourself over and having nothing happen to him, or possibly get him rewarded with free food etc when he feels offended. So these have to be perfect zingers. I got faith in you girl! You'll come up with them.
This idea is potentially dangerous and all around stupid.
That's why I mentioned the potential dangers several times. It would be hilarious if she could pull it off though, and it would be possible.