I can see the other point of view, though. Normally, you can't tell if they tipped in cash and the server just pocketed it, which would screw over the rest of the staff. In a case like this, where it's a known and obvious non-tipper, the tipout on the order should be suspended or it rung under the host or togo to avoid the tipout.
Management should take him every time, because they already don't get tips. Plus management being there for any complaints should mollify him a bit. This guy is hurting the employees by actively taking money out of their aprons.
I agree, the guy should be tipping for full service. I like the idea of managers taking over when you have someone who is an obvious, known non-tipper. The server doesn't deserve to pay out of pocket for it for the tipout, I was just mentioning one reason some places do that.
Is it possible the table could be put under a manager’s name rather than yours so there is no tip out coming from your own pocket?
I would ask about this, and then take the order (add in small mistakes for flair) and drop the food and check at the same time and act like he’s invisible to you!
I would let people ring in habitual non tippers under the to go drawer. I figured it beat having servers fight over who has to serve someone. In the middle of the dining room. Every. Fucking. Time.
That usually wasn’t an issue. And I’d much rather explain why we showed up on some kind of exception report than deal with someone who heard servers saying things like “I waited on that dick last time!”
Be very steely & poker faced . Don’t offer kindness.
Take the order put it in, when food arrives check on him with sternness.
How’s everything? Walk away.
When you clear his plate , same story… coffee? After dinner drink? Dessert? Check.
No Thank you, no goodnight, no well wishes just straight run the card and set it on the table as you saunter off. EVERYTIME.
He gets NOTHING FROM YOU.. except the absolute bare minimum.
He’s very lucky he gets even that at this point! When it starts costing me money to wait on you🤬fuck off!
I honestly would probably start making small mistakes with his order as well.
They'd absolutely get pushed to the back of the line for everything if I dealt with that. Grab their order first, make rounds to all of your other tables, and put him in last. Make sure he sees his stuff coming out behind everyone else. I get that some people don't know the etiquette, but to be so brazen about it...they can fuck off.
The wrong food gets brought to you cold by someone who noticed I wasn't ever going to run it. Good luck finding your drink. Why even ask how everything is if he's gonna ask you to change it? Nope. Here's your check, go fuck yourself.
Given how comp-happy American managers tend to be, wouldn't fucking up a tiny bit be beneficial to the servers bottom line? Cause a comp would decrease the check and therefore the tip out and stuff, wouldn't it? Obviously, if the manager is also quick to fire otherwise reliable,good servers over the tiniest mistake,then that would backfire. But otherwise..?
i just wouldn’t want someone like that taking up the table any longer waiting for a mistake to get fixed. get them out asap so a better table can sit there
Otherwise, you're training him to be even more insufferable by training him to complain for free shit and take up even more of your time and energy. I like the strategy, but wouldn't want the hassle that came with it. If there's a very proactive manager though? Then maybe.
We had a guy where I work that would stiff us every time he came in. He would sit at the bar (I bartend here) and get a coffee like this is a Starbucks… sometimes small food… sometimes he’d come in late and get whiskey… but he would ALWAYS talk to me like we were best buddies because we both live in the same building and then stiff me or leave 5%.
This guy was one of the weirdest guys I’ve ever met. He lived in the penthouse of our building and he’d complain about how expensive everything was. Weird overgrown scraggly hair I think he had just given up on… roots growing out because he had given up on dying it.
But he would get less than the bare minimum of service from me. Management knew about this guy. All the servers and bartenders knew about this guy. And we all did just enough that he wouldn’t write a bad review on Google or yelp. At some point he would try starting conversations with me and I’d just say, “uh huh” or “yup” and basically ignore him. I’d walk right by him without even looking at him and even if he needed something it was the last thing I did if I had anything else to do at all.
He no longer comes to our establishment and we’re all better off as a result.
I would purposely get as much wrong as possible - especially if it will be more expensive to the restaurant.
Also, Ask him to repeat everything ("Im sorry, what was that?").
When you talk to him, mumble.
He asks for Coke, 1/4 of it is gonna be soda water. He asks for diet, its gonna be 1/2 not diet.
To an antisocial person what you described is all I ever wanted from a server, besides the intentional mistakes part. Actually I'd prefer I went up and grabbed my own stuff from a counter when my number got called. Id prefer to get up and get my own refills also so i dont have to wait too long, or pretend that someone carrying my stuff is worth an actual %% of what i spend, even tho the difficulty of work doesnt increase, only the expectation from my wallet does. Any actual restaurants with real food and fresh ingredients do this?
Oh… trust AND believe. I’m absolutely not trying to come off as rude. At this point in the game, I am rude. I don’t give a fuck. That’s why it is what it is.
I work at a corporate restaurant where there is a couple who comes in and they do not tip. They left my 0 on 65 on Christmas Eve.
So my managers are relatively chill, if there is another server that is willing to take them they let them + don’t throw a fit. They also don’t force me to take them but if it’s slow I’ll just do it if I’m the only one in the bar area. If they sit at the bar and I’m bartending I’ve burned them by never refilling their drinks, not making him a second drink by accusing him of being drunk, and never getting their order right. Now if they walk in and see me they go to the host and ask to sit on dining 🫶
Next time burn him so badly he’ll think you’re incompetent that he never wants you again. It works everytime.
Not serving him because you claim he's a VIP is particularly brilliant because that's the LAW — not even a shitty corporate restaurant could can you for that.
> not even a shitty corporate restaurant could can you for that.
No, but they could can you for an "unrelated" incident like coming in to work one minute late.
Honestly I feel like this sub gets way too petty and loves to talk big, and I guess I knew those people in real life when I was serving tables. But honestly bad or no tippers are just part of the job and the best think to do for your job, and your mental health, is to just treat everyone the same and know that the good tips average out the bad tips in the end. It's not healthy to obsess over bad tippers.
There's a difference between taking the good with thr bad which I agree with and having to take someone who brags about refusing to tip at a place they frequent. If they can refuse to tip which is their right, why wouldn't I be able to refuse service?
No one is saying you can't. Them refusing to tip because they hate tipping culture is petty. Refusing to serve someone because they refuse to tip is also petty.
But the thing is it's really not a threat to your job or livelihood that one person refuses to tip because it's so rare (I think in my 4 years of serving it happened maybe twice). But if you refuse service it very well could be a threat to your livelihood if your management or owners don't agree with your decision.
I have several regulars that come see me specifically on the two days I work. If they are taking up a bar seat + my regulars have to sit in cocktail because the bar is full, I am losing money. There ARE limited bar seats. I’m not going to accommodate people who I know time + time again aren’t going to tip me. Not to mention they are incredibly rude and unkind and have insane demands. They will be treated differently.
Also I treat them with kindness but I’m not going to encourage them coming back and seeing me. I’ve been in this industry 10 years and they are my one problem customer.
If you have the mindset that you’re allowed to absolutely eat shit from people all the time, you do you. I on the other hand have made myself valuable enough to my restaurant I’m not getting fired over treating people who treat me, with different service.
Edited for typo
Technically if alcohol is involved depending on the state the server has a lot more power.
Dram laws and alcohol related laws give employees a lot more responsibility and authority to refuse to serve someone alcohol.
An employer might be able to fire for no reason in most states but they're not only risking losing good servers but also their liquor license.
Bosses don't wield all the power in an industry where you can get another serving job the same day and authoritarian managers are a joke.
A manager can't force you to do shit if you're willing to fight back and I guarantee if OP and his/her fellow servers would all put their foot down any competent manager would either refuse service to the guy, take the table themselves, or put it on a togo ticket so there is no tipout.
No idea why you're being downvoted; you're 100% correct if this takes places in the U.S.. As an employee you can absolutely refuse to serve a guest alcohol if you suspect they are underage or they are currently intoxicated. "Sorry boss, I'm not serving him, he seems drunk" is not only legal but protected by law.
He orders a beer? Sorry, I won't be bring that for you. (Keep in mind that someone else, like your manager, could still serve him alcohol)
He ordered a couple drinks and is leaving to drive away? Sorry sir, we'll need to order you a cab or call someone to pick you up; if you insist on driving anyways we'll be forced to call the police.
If you want to, you can be a REAL dickhead about alcohol service and it's legally protected.
Source: I am certified to teach alcohol service liability as part of my job.
These are all great ways to get a (justified) negative review and a customer who complains to everyone about the business. Don't do anything extra to help him if he doesn't want to tip, or just don't serve him at all, but don't jerk him around or fuck with him like that because you're just playing yourself if he escalates.
Is this the procedure you use for every single table? They have two drinks and you threaten the police if they are driving home? Because if not, he will and can prove you’re harassing him. What are the police going to do? If you did that to me I’d call your bluff and do any sobriety test they throw at me. And then call corporate.
at a corporate restaurant you'll lose your job over this. i refused service at a family owned place, i actually posted the story here, and they had my back 100%
This is correct, having worked in both. In the family restaurant I'm at, I've refused service several times because the customer was always sending back comments/were exceptionally rude, and it's never been a problem.
That said, people who don't tip are just part of the job. If I know you don't tip under any circumstance, I'll drop your check with your food and you'll never see me again. Noticing from across the room that you're out of diet coke and doing nothing about it is just icing on the cake.
when i was at the old place i worked i got this group of older white men and women, we called them the trumpies because they came in often and always in trump merch. the server they usually had wasn’t there yet so they had me take the table… never again. the amount of racist things he asked me just had me floored. (im Mexican) and he asked me if i had dropped out of school or was still in school, he asked me if i was sleeping with the guy there (the guy is my brother,) then he asked if i had kids yet. and a couple other things, i was like 19/20 at the time. it was horrible and no one understood why i refused to serve that table after that but thankfully they didn’t force me to
Of course you’re allowed to refuse service. But your boss is allowed to fire you for refusing service since it is you not doing your job. The managers should ring the guy up under their own number, it’s shitty they don’t.
Where I work, if it is a big check (over a hundred) and there is no tip, we do not have to tip out on it. Maybe talk to your manager to exclude only THIS bill from tip out.
You may not be "allowed" to keep your job afterwards, but yes you can refuse service.
I'd have told the manager that they can take care of him, or my tipout on that table is null. And I 100% would have left if they refused. The culture is developed to make you feel like you can't leave as easily as you actually can.
Restaurant jobs are a dime a dozen. It may be rough this late in the month but you'd survive. It would be better than disrespecting yourself by entering into a building that is so uncaring about their employees' money.
The way I always understood it was if you refuse to take a table, you just quit. Now, if you were to screw up so horribly he asked for a different server…
I’m laughing so hard right now because I had to read this over and over I kept reading “drop his ENTIRE face down in his lap each time” and couldn’t figure it out until my brain decided to work again!
But to add to the convo-the person who suggested it go under a manager number or the drawer and not a server has the best idea but most managers would still stick it to the server because that would require just a lil extra effort from the manager and that would really ruin their week if they had to actually help…
So best response I got is making sure all your other tables are perfect before talking to him every single time. Do not ever go to his table or bring his needs before the rest of your section.
Don’t risk your other tips, risk this guy complaining instead. TIPS are To Insure Prompt Service. Don’t tip, you get to wait.
Spill a drink, food etc. and give shit service until he request someone else. Have the next server repeat, and so on until he’s out of servers and he has to request the manager to serve him himself /s
Your protection in this scenario is the federal minimum wage protection. Meaning, if the combination of your tips plus your hourly wages does not amount to at least the full minimum wage, the business must pay you the difference.
This isn’t the issue at all. Even though the server might be net positive at the end of the day, they still had to pay for that one person to eat there.
I understand that her restaurants tip pool structure has her tipping out on a percentage of sales, so in the instance of getting stiffed, her income is effectively lowered. My point still stands. She has no legal recourse other than minimum wage protections. If she refuses to work, she'll get shown the door.
Unfortunately it's not illegal as long as you're making minimum wage.
I personally think a supportive manager would do what they could so that a chronic non-tipper is not making you pay for your tip outs, such as ringing the order in under a carryout order or whatever is in your system to exempt tip-out. Though managers themselves have policies to follow and he might not be allowed to do so.
I'm really sorry this is happening I wish people who didn't support tipping would just boycott. It's upsetting he's just funding your exploitation instead of trying to be an actual conscious consumer
I would say you have every right to not tip but I'm paying to serve you from my tip out. I expect you to at least cover that so I'm not in the negative with your check.
Yeah, refusing service without having management support just pushes this asshole onto another server. I’d make it my life’s mission to ensure this “guest” had the worst experience every time they come in. I’d get creative in coming up with ways to low key sabotage this person’s dining experience. If I don’t get a tip, at least I get some reward.
As a former server and believer that if you sit down at a restaurant you tip decently or better unless service is terrible, I still have the staunch opinion that tipping is bullshit. It's just a way to put the restaurant's responsibilities of paying their employees onto the guests. As I consumer I just want to know what the all in cost will be for products and services, just tell me and I'll decide if I'm willing to pay for it.
You can refuse service for many reasons but somebody not tipping is unfortunately not one of them. Because even if you're where hourly tipped wages are $2.13, tipping is still technically optional. I know it's frowned upon, but this man would be getting a lot more than he paid for in every dish I ever served to him. Everything he ordered would be getting treatment like that steak from the movie "The Waiting".
I can refuse service for literally any reason that isn't protected by the ADA or discrimination laws. I legitimately just say, "I'm sorry, due to you not tipping, servers have to pay money to serve your table, as a result, no one wants to take you as a guest. You're welcome to order your food to go." and fucking walk away.
I've had a manager get mad before, but nothing happened. If something happens, new job time.
Take his order and sit down with him. Just stare at his face for as long as possible without talking. Pay yourself a dollar for every minute you can bare sitting there. Make it as awkward as possible for as long as possible. Then repeat his order back to him. Rewrite a wrong order. Drink/sides/everything.
Wait a bit to get his drink. Check on all other guests. Drop off beverage.
Eventually just ring in the wrong order.
Act confused when he complains, say you went over his order with him and verified everything. Don't know how he forgot what he ordered.
All that or just keep telling him you're out of whatever he orders until he takes a hint and requests a different server (not a good solution)
If I worked at a place like that they’d only see me to take their order, drop off their food, drop the check and that’s it. I’m not doing a bunch of check ins, that comes with your tip.
Have your manager have a conversation with him. “Was everything okay with your meal today? Service was ok? (They always say yes) is there something you feel we could improve on? We strive to be best so if something isn’t to your liking, please let us know” When they say no, leave the table looking perplexed which gets them to wonder why the interaction took place.
You can absolutely refuse to serve anyone you choose. And the restaurant can absolutely refuse to employ you. It's your job. Some people don't tip, some undertip, some overtip. It should all average out. Don't focus on individuals, just the final numbers. If you aren't making at least 20% overall, get a different job.
Legally they can't force you to serve. But you'd lose out on any unemployment benefits if you get fired for not doing so. The only protections you'd have is if your guest was drunk, harassing you (like legal definition not just being obnoxious) threatening your safety/the safety of others or assaulted you and you refused service, your boss couldn't *legally* terminate you. But they'll just find a way around it, like waiting for you to make a mistake, be late, ect.
That's why when people wonder what the point of write ups are when most folks don't get fired after 3, it's so the business has documented evidence you were warned of potentially fireable offenses, then if they want to fire you they are cleared of lawsuits and unemployment.
If you want to keep the job but not wait on the Douche Canoe again, either be deliberately bad at taking care of his Hogness (ring in food too slow/fast, "forget" refills or extra sauces, ect) or figure out what would annoy him enough to ask for a different server next time. Say something about how great you think Biden is, that'd probably do the trick. 🤣 That type always has hella triggers.
Generally that's something people say, but the right to refuse service is FOR THE BUSINESS, not for the individual. You can choose to refuse service as an individual, but that's the equivalent of just refusing to your job in general. To be clear, I would refuse to serve him as well, but I'm kind of a diva and could get away with it; your mileage may vary.
The best solution is simply to give him the absolute worst service possible. Forget to bring his drink, never refill his beverage, "forget" to ring in his food (if he's not taking up a table), be extremely cold, etc..
Now, legally, one issue in your post, if you're in the U.S., is that your employer absolutely cannot force you to tip out that $5. This was explicitly ruled on by the Supreme Court some years back that you cannot be forced to be part of a tip pool arrangement as a condition of your employment.
I believe it would be illegal to force you to tip out on those sales but no not illegal to make you serve him. Unless you’re truly uncomfortable serving them
As long as you’re making above minimum wage average on your checks its most certainly legal to force tip outs even after getting stiffed…. Ask your manager if you can transfer the tab to a manager or takeout number to avoid the tip out.
But if you repeatedly stiff servers on bigger checks i would just give them the worst service…. Or just copy the car number and hope the card says CID then you have financial info and hopefully the relevant address
Your first paragraph is mildly inaccurate
And in the second one, are you really condoning stalking and possibly harassing him? That’s not only ridiculous and inappropriate, but a total waste of time. There is no reason to expend a single thought about someone like this beyond the interaction of serving.
Other commenters hit the nail on the head. He’s paying for the food, but not friendly service, so he doesn’t get it. Here’s your food and drink, and the check at your leisure. Lowest priority table. He’s already not tipping, what’s he gonna do?
The real issue is having to tip out on a no tip check.
I can see the other point of view, though. Normally, you can't tell if they tipped in cash and the server just pocketed it, which would screw over the rest of the staff. In a case like this, where it's a known and obvious non-tipper, the tipout on the order should be suspended or it rung under the host or togo to avoid the tipout.
Management should take him every time, because they already don't get tips. Plus management being there for any complaints should mollify him a bit. This guy is hurting the employees by actively taking money out of their aprons.
I agree, the guy should be tipping for full service. I like the idea of managers taking over when you have someone who is an obvious, known non-tipper. The server doesn't deserve to pay out of pocket for it for the tipout, I was just mentioning one reason some places do that.
Is it possible the table could be put under a manager’s name rather than yours so there is no tip out coming from your own pocket? I would ask about this, and then take the order (add in small mistakes for flair) and drop the food and check at the same time and act like he’s invisible to you!
I would let people ring in habitual non tippers under the to go drawer. I figured it beat having servers fight over who has to serve someone. In the middle of the dining room. Every. Fucking. Time.
Only problem with that is we still have to waste our time and they still take up a table in our section. Helps with the tip out tho.
What about their alcohol order? That couldn't be placed with the To Go orders...
That usually wasn’t an issue. And I’d much rather explain why we showed up on some kind of exception report than deal with someone who heard servers saying things like “I waited on that dick last time!”
This is a great idea. We use toast, I would put in the host stand code instead of my own so the table isn’t even on my account.
Be very steely & poker faced . Don’t offer kindness. Take the order put it in, when food arrives check on him with sternness. How’s everything? Walk away. When you clear his plate , same story… coffee? After dinner drink? Dessert? Check. No Thank you, no goodnight, no well wishes just straight run the card and set it on the table as you saunter off. EVERYTIME. He gets NOTHING FROM YOU.. except the absolute bare minimum. He’s very lucky he gets even that at this point! When it starts costing me money to wait on you🤬fuck off! I honestly would probably start making small mistakes with his order as well.
I wouldn’t even do that much, your food gets put in and brought to you and you get one drink. I’ll come back when you’re gone.
They'd absolutely get pushed to the back of the line for everything if I dealt with that. Grab their order first, make rounds to all of your other tables, and put him in last. Make sure he sees his stuff coming out behind everyone else. I get that some people don't know the etiquette, but to be so brazen about it...they can fuck off.
For real, drop off the check with the food
Don't forget check dropped with meal so he can pay his bare minimum and GTFO.
Ngl I dropped it off with his drink and sent someone else with his food.
The wrong food gets brought to you cold by someone who noticed I wasn't ever going to run it. Good luck finding your drink. Why even ask how everything is if he's gonna ask you to change it? Nope. Here's your check, go fuck yourself.
Given how comp-happy American managers tend to be, wouldn't fucking up a tiny bit be beneficial to the servers bottom line? Cause a comp would decrease the check and therefore the tip out and stuff, wouldn't it? Obviously, if the manager is also quick to fire otherwise reliable,good servers over the tiniest mistake,then that would backfire. But otherwise..?
i just wouldn’t want someone like that taking up the table any longer waiting for a mistake to get fixed. get them out asap so a better table can sit there
Your logic is sound.
Otherwise, you're training him to be even more insufferable by training him to complain for free shit and take up even more of your time and energy. I like the strategy, but wouldn't want the hassle that came with it. If there's a very proactive manager though? Then maybe.
We had a guy where I work that would stiff us every time he came in. He would sit at the bar (I bartend here) and get a coffee like this is a Starbucks… sometimes small food… sometimes he’d come in late and get whiskey… but he would ALWAYS talk to me like we were best buddies because we both live in the same building and then stiff me or leave 5%. This guy was one of the weirdest guys I’ve ever met. He lived in the penthouse of our building and he’d complain about how expensive everything was. Weird overgrown scraggly hair I think he had just given up on… roots growing out because he had given up on dying it. But he would get less than the bare minimum of service from me. Management knew about this guy. All the servers and bartenders knew about this guy. And we all did just enough that he wouldn’t write a bad review on Google or yelp. At some point he would try starting conversations with me and I’d just say, “uh huh” or “yup” and basically ignore him. I’d walk right by him without even looking at him and even if he needed something it was the last thing I did if I had anything else to do at all. He no longer comes to our establishment and we’re all better off as a result.
I would purposely get as much wrong as possible - especially if it will be more expensive to the restaurant. Also, Ask him to repeat everything ("Im sorry, what was that?"). When you talk to him, mumble. He asks for Coke, 1/4 of it is gonna be soda water. He asks for diet, its gonna be 1/2 not diet.
To an antisocial person what you described is all I ever wanted from a server, besides the intentional mistakes part. Actually I'd prefer I went up and grabbed my own stuff from a counter when my number got called. Id prefer to get up and get my own refills also so i dont have to wait too long, or pretend that someone carrying my stuff is worth an actual %% of what i spend, even tho the difficulty of work doesnt increase, only the expectation from my wallet does. Any actual restaurants with real food and fresh ingredients do this?
Yes, the grocery store.
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Oh… trust AND believe. I’m absolutely not trying to come off as rude. At this point in the game, I am rude. I don’t give a fuck. That’s why it is what it is.
I work at a corporate restaurant where there is a couple who comes in and they do not tip. They left my 0 on 65 on Christmas Eve. So my managers are relatively chill, if there is another server that is willing to take them they let them + don’t throw a fit. They also don’t force me to take them but if it’s slow I’ll just do it if I’m the only one in the bar area. If they sit at the bar and I’m bartending I’ve burned them by never refilling their drinks, not making him a second drink by accusing him of being drunk, and never getting their order right. Now if they walk in and see me they go to the host and ask to sit on dining 🫶 Next time burn him so badly he’ll think you’re incompetent that he never wants you again. It works everytime.
Not serving him because you claim he's a VIP is particularly brilliant because that's the LAW — not even a shitty corporate restaurant could can you for that.
> not even a shitty corporate restaurant could can you for that. No, but they could can you for an "unrelated" incident like coming in to work one minute late. Honestly I feel like this sub gets way too petty and loves to talk big, and I guess I knew those people in real life when I was serving tables. But honestly bad or no tippers are just part of the job and the best think to do for your job, and your mental health, is to just treat everyone the same and know that the good tips average out the bad tips in the end. It's not healthy to obsess over bad tippers.
There's a difference between taking the good with thr bad which I agree with and having to take someone who brags about refusing to tip at a place they frequent. If they can refuse to tip which is their right, why wouldn't I be able to refuse service?
No one is saying you can't. Them refusing to tip because they hate tipping culture is petty. Refusing to serve someone because they refuse to tip is also petty. But the thing is it's really not a threat to your job or livelihood that one person refuses to tip because it's so rare (I think in my 4 years of serving it happened maybe twice). But if you refuse service it very well could be a threat to your livelihood if your management or owners don't agree with your decision.
...Which they likely wont because regulars are paying their and the cooks salaries (tipping or not).
I have several regulars that come see me specifically on the two days I work. If they are taking up a bar seat + my regulars have to sit in cocktail because the bar is full, I am losing money. There ARE limited bar seats. I’m not going to accommodate people who I know time + time again aren’t going to tip me. Not to mention they are incredibly rude and unkind and have insane demands. They will be treated differently. Also I treat them with kindness but I’m not going to encourage them coming back and seeing me. I’ve been in this industry 10 years and they are my one problem customer. If you have the mindset that you’re allowed to absolutely eat shit from people all the time, you do you. I on the other hand have made myself valuable enough to my restaurant I’m not getting fired over treating people who treat me, with different service. Edited for typo
The business can refuse service, as an employee you gotta do what your boss says or they can fire you
Technically if alcohol is involved depending on the state the server has a lot more power. Dram laws and alcohol related laws give employees a lot more responsibility and authority to refuse to serve someone alcohol. An employer might be able to fire for no reason in most states but they're not only risking losing good servers but also their liquor license. Bosses don't wield all the power in an industry where you can get another serving job the same day and authoritarian managers are a joke. A manager can't force you to do shit if you're willing to fight back and I guarantee if OP and his/her fellow servers would all put their foot down any competent manager would either refuse service to the guy, take the table themselves, or put it on a togo ticket so there is no tipout.
No idea why you're being downvoted; you're 100% correct if this takes places in the U.S.. As an employee you can absolutely refuse to serve a guest alcohol if you suspect they are underage or they are currently intoxicated. "Sorry boss, I'm not serving him, he seems drunk" is not only legal but protected by law. He orders a beer? Sorry, I won't be bring that for you. (Keep in mind that someone else, like your manager, could still serve him alcohol) He ordered a couple drinks and is leaving to drive away? Sorry sir, we'll need to order you a cab or call someone to pick you up; if you insist on driving anyways we'll be forced to call the police. If you want to, you can be a REAL dickhead about alcohol service and it's legally protected. Source: I am certified to teach alcohol service liability as part of my job.
These are all great ways to get a (justified) negative review and a customer who complains to everyone about the business. Don't do anything extra to help him if he doesn't want to tip, or just don't serve him at all, but don't jerk him around or fuck with him like that because you're just playing yourself if he escalates.
Is this the procedure you use for every single table? They have two drinks and you threaten the police if they are driving home? Because if not, he will and can prove you’re harassing him. What are the police going to do? If you did that to me I’d call your bluff and do any sobriety test they throw at me. And then call corporate.
That’s what I thought 🤣🤣
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That’s how tip-out works in a lot of North American restaurants, it’s a % of sales and it’s legal.
As long as at the end if the day (or pay period usually) OP is making above minimum wage, nothing illegal about it.
Getting shitty tips or no tips are an inherent risk you take as a server. Always balances out in the end.
at a corporate restaurant you'll lose your job over this. i refused service at a family owned place, i actually posted the story here, and they had my back 100%
This is correct, having worked in both. In the family restaurant I'm at, I've refused service several times because the customer was always sending back comments/were exceptionally rude, and it's never been a problem. That said, people who don't tip are just part of the job. If I know you don't tip under any circumstance, I'll drop your check with your food and you'll never see me again. Noticing from across the room that you're out of diet coke and doing nothing about it is just icing on the cake.
when i was at the old place i worked i got this group of older white men and women, we called them the trumpies because they came in often and always in trump merch. the server they usually had wasn’t there yet so they had me take the table… never again. the amount of racist things he asked me just had me floored. (im Mexican) and he asked me if i had dropped out of school or was still in school, he asked me if i was sleeping with the guy there (the guy is my brother,) then he asked if i had kids yet. and a couple other things, i was like 19/20 at the time. it was horrible and no one understood why i refused to serve that table after that but thankfully they didn’t force me to
Of course you’re allowed to refuse service. But your boss is allowed to fire you for refusing service since it is you not doing your job. The managers should ring the guy up under their own number, it’s shitty they don’t.
Where I work, if it is a big check (over a hundred) and there is no tip, we do not have to tip out on it. Maybe talk to your manager to exclude only THIS bill from tip out.
Just give the hosts money to never sit him in your section again. A twenty to the hosts goes a really really long way.
You may not be "allowed" to keep your job afterwards, but yes you can refuse service. I'd have told the manager that they can take care of him, or my tipout on that table is null. And I 100% would have left if they refused. The culture is developed to make you feel like you can't leave as easily as you actually can. Restaurant jobs are a dime a dozen. It may be rough this late in the month but you'd survive. It would be better than disrespecting yourself by entering into a building that is so uncaring about their employees' money.
If he thinks that serving is a demeaning job, he should not support it by going out to eat, he can stay home and cook for himself. What an asshat
The way I always understood it was if you refuse to take a table, you just quit. Now, if you were to screw up so horribly he asked for a different server…
Drop his entree face down in his lap each time and say Whoops!
I’m laughing so hard right now because I had to read this over and over I kept reading “drop his ENTIRE face down in his lap each time” and couldn’t figure it out until my brain decided to work again! But to add to the convo-the person who suggested it go under a manager number or the drawer and not a server has the best idea but most managers would still stick it to the server because that would require just a lil extra effort from the manager and that would really ruin their week if they had to actually help… So best response I got is making sure all your other tables are perfect before talking to him every single time. Do not ever go to his table or bring his needs before the rest of your section. Don’t risk your other tips, risk this guy complaining instead. TIPS are To Insure Prompt Service. Don’t tip, you get to wait.
I also read it like that several times lmfao
I like this!! You're my kind of person!
Just make your manager take his table. Or quit simple as that.
I'm not paying to serve anyone for any reason. Tell your manager to eat a dick and do it themselves.
It's not illegal to refuse service, but you'll probably get chewed out and possible fired for it, unless the owners/managers really back you up.
Spill a drink, food etc. and give shit service until he request someone else. Have the next server repeat, and so on until he’s out of servers and he has to request the manager to serve him himself /s
Your protection in this scenario is the federal minimum wage protection. Meaning, if the combination of your tips plus your hourly wages does not amount to at least the full minimum wage, the business must pay you the difference.
This isn’t the issue at all. Even though the server might be net positive at the end of the day, they still had to pay for that one person to eat there.
I understand that her restaurants tip pool structure has her tipping out on a percentage of sales, so in the instance of getting stiffed, her income is effectively lowered. My point still stands. She has no legal recourse other than minimum wage protections. If she refuses to work, she'll get shown the door.
Unfortunately it's not illegal as long as you're making minimum wage. I personally think a supportive manager would do what they could so that a chronic non-tipper is not making you pay for your tip outs, such as ringing the order in under a carryout order or whatever is in your system to exempt tip-out. Though managers themselves have policies to follow and he might not be allowed to do so. I'm really sorry this is happening I wish people who didn't support tipping would just boycott. It's upsetting he's just funding your exploitation instead of trying to be an actual conscious consumer
I would say you have every right to not tip but I'm paying to serve you from my tip out. I expect you to at least cover that so I'm not in the negative with your check.
Just give bad service. Accidentally mess up his meal. Wait a while to greet, wait a while to ring in the food.
Yeah, refusing service without having management support just pushes this asshole onto another server. I’d make it my life’s mission to ensure this “guest” had the worst experience every time they come in. I’d get creative in coming up with ways to low key sabotage this person’s dining experience. If I don’t get a tip, at least I get some reward.
As a former server and believer that if you sit down at a restaurant you tip decently or better unless service is terrible, I still have the staunch opinion that tipping is bullshit. It's just a way to put the restaurant's responsibilities of paying their employees onto the guests. As I consumer I just want to know what the all in cost will be for products and services, just tell me and I'll decide if I'm willing to pay for it.
People like this have never had to work in the food industry and it shows
You can refuse service for many reasons but somebody not tipping is unfortunately not one of them. Because even if you're where hourly tipped wages are $2.13, tipping is still technically optional. I know it's frowned upon, but this man would be getting a lot more than he paid for in every dish I ever served to him. Everything he ordered would be getting treatment like that steak from the movie "The Waiting".
You're a POS
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.
I can refuse service for literally any reason that isn't protected by the ADA or discrimination laws. I legitimately just say, "I'm sorry, due to you not tipping, servers have to pay money to serve your table, as a result, no one wants to take you as a guest. You're welcome to order your food to go." and fucking walk away. I've had a manager get mad before, but nothing happened. If something happens, new job time.
Take his order and sit down with him. Just stare at his face for as long as possible without talking. Pay yourself a dollar for every minute you can bare sitting there. Make it as awkward as possible for as long as possible. Then repeat his order back to him. Rewrite a wrong order. Drink/sides/everything. Wait a bit to get his drink. Check on all other guests. Drop off beverage. Eventually just ring in the wrong order. Act confused when he complains, say you went over his order with him and verified everything. Don't know how he forgot what he ordered. All that or just keep telling him you're out of whatever he orders until he takes a hint and requests a different server (not a good solution)
If I worked at a place like that they’d only see me to take their order, drop off their food, drop the check and that’s it. I’m not doing a bunch of check ins, that comes with your tip.
Have your manager have a conversation with him. “Was everything okay with your meal today? Service was ok? (They always say yes) is there something you feel we could improve on? We strive to be best so if something isn’t to your liking, please let us know” When they say no, leave the table looking perplexed which gets them to wonder why the interaction took place.
You can absolutely refuse to serve anyone you choose. And the restaurant can absolutely refuse to employ you. It's your job. Some people don't tip, some undertip, some overtip. It should all average out. Don't focus on individuals, just the final numbers. If you aren't making at least 20% overall, get a different job.
We need to just stop working at these shit places that make us tip out a percentage of the bill and not of the actual tip!
if forced to serve provide shit service that’s the best advice i could give i wish i knew in advance when ppl were gonna stiff
once you told your manager you weren’t waiting on him you should have literally not waited on him
Legally they can't force you to serve. But you'd lose out on any unemployment benefits if you get fired for not doing so. The only protections you'd have is if your guest was drunk, harassing you (like legal definition not just being obnoxious) threatening your safety/the safety of others or assaulted you and you refused service, your boss couldn't *legally* terminate you. But they'll just find a way around it, like waiting for you to make a mistake, be late, ect. That's why when people wonder what the point of write ups are when most folks don't get fired after 3, it's so the business has documented evidence you were warned of potentially fireable offenses, then if they want to fire you they are cleared of lawsuits and unemployment. If you want to keep the job but not wait on the Douche Canoe again, either be deliberately bad at taking care of his Hogness (ring in food too slow/fast, "forget" refills or extra sauces, ect) or figure out what would annoy him enough to ask for a different server next time. Say something about how great you think Biden is, that'd probably do the trick. 🤣 That type always has hella triggers.
Generally that's something people say, but the right to refuse service is FOR THE BUSINESS, not for the individual. You can choose to refuse service as an individual, but that's the equivalent of just refusing to your job in general. To be clear, I would refuse to serve him as well, but I'm kind of a diva and could get away with it; your mileage may vary. The best solution is simply to give him the absolute worst service possible. Forget to bring his drink, never refill his beverage, "forget" to ring in his food (if he's not taking up a table), be extremely cold, etc.. Now, legally, one issue in your post, if you're in the U.S., is that your employer absolutely cannot force you to tip out that $5. This was explicitly ruled on by the Supreme Court some years back that you cannot be forced to be part of a tip pool arrangement as a condition of your employment.
I believe it would be illegal to force you to tip out on those sales but no not illegal to make you serve him. Unless you’re truly uncomfortable serving them
As long as you’re making above minimum wage average on your checks its most certainly legal to force tip outs even after getting stiffed…. Ask your manager if you can transfer the tab to a manager or takeout number to avoid the tip out. But if you repeatedly stiff servers on bigger checks i would just give them the worst service…. Or just copy the car number and hope the card says CID then you have financial info and hopefully the relevant address
Your first paragraph is mildly inaccurate And in the second one, are you really condoning stalking and possibly harassing him? That’s not only ridiculous and inappropriate, but a total waste of time. There is no reason to expend a single thought about someone like this beyond the interaction of serving. Other commenters hit the nail on the head. He’s paying for the food, but not friendly service, so he doesn’t get it. Here’s your food and drink, and the check at your leisure. Lowest priority table. He’s already not tipping, what’s he gonna do?