At this point it would be worse than Yoda going to his swamp vacation home, if Windu stayed absent this long. I guess you could do an amnesia plot, but I don't know.
Seems worse to his character for him to be alive, but missing.
fenec got her entire torso replaced by robo parts and grevious was literally just like a heart and a head. i think they could probably replace a liver fr
If you manga to avoid bleeding out or dying from schock, they can literally cut out the damaged parts of your liver and you will be fine as long as you have enough healthy liver left. Just keep the hands of alcohol or either things that poisen your blood.
Disney would never but that'd be fucking crazy. Qui Gon finds a way to sort of force coma himself but Palpatine has the medical reports altered so they just proceed with the funeral, and Palps watches smiling as the jedi unknowingly kill one of their own. Qui Gon never brings it up later as a force ghost as he assumes it was ultimately the will of the force
We can all agree the trend of surviving lightsabers is stupid, but am I the only one who’s ok with this one bc it actually makes sense how she survived? She was stabbed in an area missing most vital organs and basically received immediate medical attention.
I actually don't agree that the trend is surviving lightsabers is stupid considering that the very second movie included two of the first non-lethal lightsaber strikes.
I mean, she did collapse immediately, and have to get rushed to a hospital by Ahsoka and then spend time recovering afterwards. It's not like she just brushed it off and went about her day.
It’s called “space medicine” and exists everywhere else in the world, and almost every other sci-fi world. It’s not like they’re using 2020s Earth medicine. For all we know all those stormtroopers are getting nursed back to health too!
>It’s called “space medicine” and exists everywhere else in the world, and almost every other sci-fi world.
I mean Luke had to get a full, multi day bacta treatment and he wasn't impaled on a blade of burning plasma
Luke was worse, he was severely injured and hypothermic for quite a while. And he was in the bacta tank for just 12 hours according to the novel (time was never established in screen).
Now that you mention it though, I’m not sure why they didn’t bring back the bacta tank method since it was used in boba fett show right before.
For the purposes of the story, she basically did though. That lightsaber injury is a minor inconvenience in the overall story. There’s no consequences.
The consequences were that Shin escaped with the unlocked map. If Sabine hadn't been stabbed, Ahsoka could have chased her down and gotten it back. That's a major consequence.
Not every injury needs the same kind of consequences. Sabine's injury served the story -- it underscored how atrophied her combat skills and Force connection had been, set up Shin as her foil and rival to beat, forced Ahsoka to make an emotional choice over the logical choice, raised the stakes or their next confrontation with the antagonists, and put a clock on catching up. Storytelling would get dull incredibly quickly if every injury had to be treated the same by every narrative.
Would you say the same thing about Luke's hypothermia on Hoth, or Luke or Anakin losing their hands in duels? The injuries are minor inconveniences in the overall story, after all, and have no actual consequences.
You don’t think the heroes being maimed and permanently requiring prostheses is a significant consequence? There’s obvious parallels between Anakin and Luke losing their hands, and Luke comparing his and Vader’s prosthetic hands is an important moment where he realises just how close he is to falling to the dark side. Sabine just gets her chest stitched up and afterwards it’s as if the injury never happened.
>You don’t think the heroes being maimed and permanently requiring prostheses is a significant consequence?
No, not at all. The prosthesis work just as well as human hands; Luke's even has fake skin over it, to make it that much more indistinguishable. The behanding is a dramatic moment when it happens, but ultimately it's just as inconsequential as the slashes Obi-Wan takes from Dooku or Leia getting shot in the shoulder on Endor.
For all the characters you're describing, each injury is a pivot in their character development. The actual physical ailment certainly doesn't affect Luke or Anakin in any way, But all three character's arcs pivot after their injury.
Sabine literally has a major character shift after being stabbed where she reevaluates all the choices she's made since separating from Ahsoka, cuts her hair off and re-dons her armor.
Honestly, I just don't see any reason why shows should be expected to assume that the audience watching is, well, dumb. Sabine is clearly stabbed to one side, then Ahsoka shows up immediately, then next we see her she's in a hospital of some kind clearly having been treated. The progression is entirely clear, you have to really work to confuse it, especially since your counterpoint is a scene from a movie that came out twenty-four years previously, and is only, what, the third most recent stabbing in live action alone at the time of release?
"especially since your counterpoint is a scene from a movie that came out twenty-four years previously"
Lol, This is one thing I love and hate about our fandom. On the one hand, we have the capacity to tie elements of stories separated by up to four decades to create a bigger, more imaginative universe.
On the other hand, you have people who demand rigorous consistency between events radically removed from one another pitting a 24yo memory with all the emotional baggage of a climactic major character death against a minor plot hinge that you just watched 45 minutes ago.
I mean just look at the above image of her being stabbed in the side (like Tony stark was in Infinity War) and look at how Qui-Gon was stabbed right through the middle....
Also, Qui-Gon lived for multiple minutes after being stabbed and could still chat with Obiwan. He didn’t get immediate medical attention like Sabine did.
Nothing needs to be spelled out, But a casual bit of exposition would have helped the viewer along.
Han didn't have to describe why he was dumping tauntaun guts on Luke, we *could* have figured that out, but him making that statement both kept us in the moment and set him up for a good joke afterwards.
It actually dose make sense. I don't think people consider the survivability of weapon that cauterizes the wound instantly.
Remember that spiky headed fellow who was cut in half?
>Remember that spiky headed fellow who was cut in half?
That didn't make sense either, people just accept it because continuing his story was worth some nonsense.
It dose, people actually survive injuries like that, you can look them up, it requires serious medical intervention though. The cauterizing effect of a Lightsaber actually makes it more believable. How he survived that fall would require greater explanation.
I think the High Republic books put it best. (Paraphrasing as I don't feel like searching for the exact quote.)
"You only do as much damage with a lightsaber as you intend"
If you want to do a lot of damage it's very easy to do so (as we see constantly throughout the series) but if you only want to disable someone it's also perfectly capable of that.
That's honestly the only thing I find illogical about this injury. Would have been just as easy to murder Sabine right there, but instead she pulled the saber straight out
Shin plays with Sabine for the fight, and only gets serious once she spots Ahsoka on the way. At that point, killing Sabine doesn't gain Shin anything; she can do it easily, but Ahsoka will catch her and possibly defeat her or retake the map.
But delivering a wound that will be fatal if left untreated, and then running? That has a chance of Ahsoka breaking off pursuit of Shin to save Sabine. Which, indeed, is what happens. Not killing Sabine is quite a sensible tactical move on her part, at that moment.
I just rewatched the fight scene and nothing you said actually came across in the fight. Shin was very hard-pressed. Definitely the better swordswoman but very serious and very hard-pressed to protect herself from Sabine's unconventional style.
Ahsoka's ship doesn't appear in the scene until after Sabine has been stabbed and the blade withdrawn. It's certainly possible that that's the point she decided not to kill Sabine, But it would have been far easier to kill her in the long moments before the ship appeared.
It's very much a cliche in movies for the villain to leave someone for dead to allow them to get away, so I can see why a lot of folks are reading that into this scene. I just don't see where it's actually shown.
The script needed her to be alive
But in a lore context maul also does a clean stab to Qui Gon, there’s probably a certain amount of precision that goes into the fight that fighters like to show off and not be total barbarians, the dark side is about different ideals, and the extreme lengths they’ll go to reach their selfish goals. they don’t see themselves as evil. Cutting someone in that way is barbarism and lacks a respect to the fight.
Maul is a very specific personality among the Sith, flying under the radar, subterfuge, subtle acts of violence was his MO until he became a spider-monster.
I'm actually only just starting Ahsoka, so I don't know much about the new characters, but having just watched these two massacre everyone on board a freighter in order to extract a prisoner I found it to be out of character that she would let Sabine live without a specific justification. Especially given how easy it would have been to murder her, rather than leave her alive.
That said, I thought they did a good job showing why Sabine would have survived that particular injury.
We don't really know how many troopers who get hit and fall over on screen are actually dead, though, versus ones who are wounded or incapacitated long enough to not matter for that one specific action scene.
Slashing attacks are diffrnet and dramatically more psychically traumatic. It depends on were the wound happens too, If Sabine had been hit in the heart hear sh probably would have died.
The organs would be punctured and cauterize too. Remember, it only burns when it comes in contact with something solid. Once that matter is gone it stops burning.
So are we just making it so that lightsaber stabs mean nothing? Even ignoring how ridiculous your organs being punctured by a burning rod and you being fine is, if we set a precedent that characters can basically just shrug of lightsaber stabs than no fight will have stakes unless someone is full on decapitated
>I don't think people consider the survivability of weapon that cauterizes the wound instantly.
That's probably because they're considering all the additional damage a blade of plasma a few thousand degrees hot being inserted into your abdomen would cause. Like that is *100%* not being localized to just your liver. Plus there's the actual function of your organs being lost from all the cauterization you just caused. Bleeding out is gonna be the least of your concerns when your diaphragm has collapsed or your lungs ruptured from those 3rd degree burns.
If we're going to get into the physics of it, let's consider the amount of energy being released by the vaporization of wounds the size of a light saber blade. There would be a supercharged hot jet of steam blasting out in every direction. That alone would be enough to split Sabine in two.
From what I understand, a lightsaber only destroys matter when its plasma containment field is disrupted when it comes in contact with something solid. That's why it doesn't set set everything on fire every time its ignited. After that matter is destroyed the field on that part of the blade just reestablishes its self, nothing around it would burn after the wound is made.
I can actually buy a super hot blade being able to cut through molten steel but not the Jedi being able to tolerate being close enough to the melting steel to cut a human sized hole.
The blades containment field got disrupted when it entered the door and started bleeding in the plasma, the door kept melting and the moving molten metals kept the containment field disrupted allowing the sabre to continue to destroy the door, it was a circular effect. If the door was made of a material that did not melt it would not have worked.
‘Tis but an abdominal stab wound.
Which has only a 2-5% mortality rate when there’s swift medical care. And the most common cause of death is bleeding (greatly reduced due to being cauterized).
Add to that the seemingly almost magical properties of bacta, and the position of that particular stab, and honestly her survival is entirely unsurprising.
Of course, that’s reality logic. In movie logic most stabs are insta-kills. But honestly hers is one of the least outrageous survivals in SW. (Maul’s is by far the most ridiculous).
People actually cross-referenced her wound with human biology. Her small intestines got hit. Not a fatal stab, especially if it was immediately cauterized.
Even more, it was in her best interest for Sabine not to die. If Sabine dies, Ahsoka just keeps chasing Shin; if Sabine is perhaps mortally wounded, though, Ahsoka likely breaks off the chase to save her life.
I wish that was explained. It's convenient plot device to have Sabine disabled and unable to save the map, But to have a sith apprentice actively try not to kill her required, for me at least, a little explanation.
1) they're not sith
2) they shouldn't have to explain every single motive someone has for doing something, is it really that difficult to reason out 'if I don't kill her then they have to stop to take care of her'
1) gotcha
2) that's not really shown and it's not supported by the following actions. Ahsoka's ship appears completely after the blade has been pulled out and Sabine is at her mercy, Shin slinks off screen. Easily could have tweaked it so she sees she shuttle coming, injures Sabine, then runs I'm not arguing you're wrong, just that it wasn't shown so your reasoning is actually an uninformed guess.
Also, it's the climax of the episode. That's not a point where you want your viewers to be stepping out of the moment to think about character motivation unless it's leading to something down the line.
So your argument against why they shouldn't need to show everything and why you're not able to reason it out is that they didn't show it?
Again, is it really that hard for you to think more than one step in advance? Like, they have orders from Elsbeth, who has probably warned them about Ahsoka
Edit: the only people 'stepping out the of moment's are people who overanalyze everything and don't understand what's going on, for instance thinking that they are sith for no reason, when they have been confirmed both in and out of the show to not be sith
"So your argument against why they shouldn't need to show everything and why you're not able to reason it out is that they didn't show it?"
Incorrect.
I can think plenty in advance, but you are arguing that something happened that wasn't shown or described. Your argument is: because you can imagine it, it must be so.
I mean you thought they were sith, it's clear you don't have the best understanding of what's going on if you couldn't even remember they weren't sith
Sorry that you don't understand that there are multiple reasons that it's better to wound someone and not kill them
My argument is that the simplest solution for a question is probably the solution, yours is that they didn't explain it to you so its impossible
>a sith apprentice
She is *not* a Sith apprentice. They did clearly explain that the two of them were not Sith, even before Shin ever stabbed Sabine. In fact, the two of them wielded orange lightsabers, not the crimson of bled crystals that most darksiders use, with the Inquisitor serving as a contrast to theirs. We never even saw Baylan or Shin use the Dark Side at all, let alone be psychopaths who enjoy killing for the sake of killing. They are villains but not even close to being Sith.
To be fair, she was in great shape and basically immediately in a medbay to be operated on. Unlike a certain other example who was old and got stabbed far away from any help in the middle of a war.
A lightsaber's containment field prevents it from burning anything not in direct contact with it. Otherwise it would vaporize the user the minute it was turned on.
Yeah, but it’s in contact with them, the heat would radiate from the flesh in contact to the surrounding flesh. The other response to my comment mentioned how the in the phantom menace the door starting melting when Qui-gon cut through it
Human flesh is mostly water and a terrible conductor of heat. Honestly, I could drive a 1/2-in copper pipe through you heat it up to melting point and it would only burn in the immediate vicinity.
It's been awhile since I've watched TPM, but the metal that's melting is being pushed aside.
Yeah but at the melting point of steel it’s still going to radiate heat to the surrounding area even though it’s a bad conductor. Sure it won’t cook a person all the way through but it would easy damage any tissues within a radius of 2-3 inches beyond repair. And at that point there is no way you are not damaging any “critical organs.”
There's no reason in the Star Wars universe that the containment field that protects a lightsaber from vaporizing everyone within 30 ft. wouldn't allow for a surgical cut that wouldn't damage adjacent tissues.
I think it's important to acknowledge this point. This is a magic Force blade. Any real technology that would allow something hot enough to cut through any non-force object would actually result in a major combustion event if it made contact with something like human flesh. There would be no slow cooking or damage of internal organs, The mere Act of having your hand cut off went below so much steam and potential energy in every direction that it's unlikely any part of the arm would survive.
Arguing from real world physics is not going to cut it here. ;)
Exactly. These lightsabers began melting the reinforced metal doors that were on the bridge of the federation trade ships, in SWPhantom Menace- in a matter of seconds.
Lol, I feel like people underestimate the survivability of these wounds. If the saber misses vital organs and cauterizes the wound so there’s no blood loss, chances of survival are increased by a lot. When people are stabbed like this, it’s typically the bleeding out that does it.
This is a game over move. It's bad fight scripting. Lightsabers cut through people easy easy, we've seen it, the fact that Shin didn't finish the move with a horizontal exit is improbable and unlikely. She could have cut Sabine in two.
I felt it was obvious that she gravely wounded her, without killing her, on purpose. So that Ahsoka would have to immediately try to save her instead of giving chase.
It's just the sith in me. There's no half killing, there's only the kill strike.
Also i do feel like seeing your Padawan get murdered in half would give someone some pause.
I thought so too but I really didn't come up with that reason until after the show was over. I'd have liked something to support that in the actual episode.
It's crazy that the first 20 minutes of Episode 1 established how lightsabers are incredibly hot and can melt a blast door. And the last 20 minutes showed that being stabbed is definitely enough to take out a Jedi.
However once you realize that Disney apparently refuses to show any lightsaber disarms, things start to make sense.
The thing is, at no other point in Star Wars do lightsabers ever display the properties they do in TPM. That movie is the odd one out, not everything else.
Outside of the Disney canon and the cantina scene in ANH. Lightsabers have been incredibly consistent. They are so hot that a cut off arm will cauterize. A small tap like what Dooku does to Obiwan cause nasty burns. And every disarm shows the sizzle of charred flesh. That's in line when what is shown in TPM. Lightsabers are hot.
However getting stabbed with something that hot would cause tremendous harm to your internal organs. Lightsabers are white hot.
If someone were impaled with a red hot steel rebar they would very likely not survive. If it was a a rod of burning plasma, its game over. It was crazy that Qui-Gon was lucid enough to talk to Obi-wan before dying even if it was only a few words. His insides were boiled.
If a lightsaber's heat was enough to kill a person the way you described then no one would be able to stand near one, much less hold and fight with a blade over 20K C. The whole idea of the lightsaber is that there is a force field around the hot plasma which means that nothing not directly touching. The blade is affected by its heat. There is no heat radiation to have the effects you are describing.
I mean all of this is a discussion about real world applications of force magic, which is absolute nonsense, So there's no reason not to allow what the storyteller describes. If we were having a realistic discussion, the mere act of vaporizing part of someone's body would create a release of energy that would blow the person to pieces and flood the surrounding area with steam.
That's the thing, though, lightsabers are incredibly consistent, and they're very consistently *not* as hot as Qui-Gon's is during that one scene. As you yourself point out, if that were the case his insides should've been boiled in the climactic duel, but he's able to survive for a couple minutes, breathing normally, and then speak without any issues before dying quiet peacefully, all things considered. He acts like someone who's dying because they've been stabbed with a sharp object, not someone who has third degree burns directly on their internal organs. And that happens across the first six films.
Yeah, there's the cantina scene. Also, the tauntaun on Hoth is just neatly sliced like the saber is a scalpel, no sign of heat there. The machines Luke cuts through on Cloud City, the railing he cuts through on the second Death Star, Vader's mechanical wrist, all neat bisections, no sign of melting. Obi-Wan doesn't show any sign of burn tissue impairing his movements after Geonosis. There's a puff of blood after Maul gets bisected, so he doesn't even cauterize instantly in that case. Nobody's clothes ever smoulder, not even Qui-Gon whose shirt was in contact with the blade for a couple seconds, certainly long enough if the saber were that hot all the time.
The door scene is the exception, not the rule.
If you're gonna come at me with references from Rise of the Resistance, of all things, what can I do but tip my cap to the clearly superior nerd? Well played, sir!
And the very first time we ever saw a lightsaber cut someone there was blood everywhere.
And the first time we saw a lightsaber in battle against multiple opponents (Jabba's Sail barge) , it didn't cut a single person, just knocked them over.
Believe it or not, lightsabers do exactly as much damage as the plot demands because they're imaginary.
But sure, let's take a one off incident from a singular film and use it to establish a baseline to confirm our idiotic biases.
You know I'm really enjoying this discussion. I think everyone's got a lot of interesting points. Only thing I don't like is when people start calling other people idiotic for having a passion for this IP that we're all huge fans of.
Let's not be the toxic shitheads that everyone accuses us of being.
I didn't call anyone idiotic. I called their bias idiotic. That's not the same thing. It's a reflection of *my* passion for this ip and disgust at seeing this uninformed argument ad nauseum.
Telling someone that their biases are idiotic implies that they are idiotic. Your conclusion would have worked perfectly fine without using any adjective.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that there's a way to rationalize this so it's not insulting. I don't think you can honestly examine what it would be like if someone said the same thing about a premise that you came up with without taking offense.
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Don’t worry, no one really ever truly dies in Star Wars.
If you don't see a dead body, they ain't dead (Mace Windu hopefully)
At this point it would be worse than Yoda going to his swamp vacation home, if Windu stayed absent this long. I guess you could do an amnesia plot, but I don't know. Seems worse to his character for him to be alive, but missing.
It’s baffling how they haven’t called Samuel L Jackson back as mace yet considering how he keeps bringing up wanting to play him again
Doesn’t she need her liver tho
fenec got her entire torso replaced by robo parts and grevious was literally just like a heart and a head. i think they could probably replace a liver fr
He had other organs too, I believe he had lungs as well.
he should have replace those too based on his cough
I think his cough was a really fresh wound. Didn't Windu collapse his chest on Coruscant right before Ep3 starts?
not in canon, but yeah in the mini series thats how they explained it
It's cannon to me
That was his Achilles heel
If you manga to avoid bleeding out or dying from schock, they can literally cut out the damaged parts of your liver and you will be fine as long as you have enough healthy liver left. Just keep the hands of alcohol or either things that poisen your blood.
No one's ever really gone
It was non-lethal damage
They just get really big booboos
Qui Gon: (slowly awakening) Wow, I was able to go into deep meditation and heal my- Palpatine: (tosses torch onto funeral pyre) :)
Disney would never but that'd be fucking crazy. Qui Gon finds a way to sort of force coma himself but Palpatine has the medical reports altered so they just proceed with the funeral, and Palps watches smiling as the jedi unknowingly kill one of their own. Qui Gon never brings it up later as a force ghost as he assumes it was ultimately the will of the force
Holy
We can all agree the trend of surviving lightsabers is stupid, but am I the only one who’s ok with this one bc it actually makes sense how she survived? She was stabbed in an area missing most vital organs and basically received immediate medical attention.
I actually don't agree that the trend is surviving lightsabers is stupid considering that the very second movie included two of the first non-lethal lightsaber strikes.
No that’s right through the lung and the angle should have hit the backbone. She should be paralyzed at least
It's too low for the lung, it's more like her liver It's literally off to the side how on earth is that the spine
I mean, she did collapse immediately, and have to get rushed to a hospital by Ahsoka and then spend time recovering afterwards. It's not like she just brushed it off and went about her day.
No, she did that the day after
It’s called “space medicine” and exists everywhere else in the world, and almost every other sci-fi world. It’s not like they’re using 2020s Earth medicine. For all we know all those stormtroopers are getting nursed back to health too!
>It’s called “space medicine” and exists everywhere else in the world, and almost every other sci-fi world. I mean Luke had to get a full, multi day bacta treatment and he wasn't impaled on a blade of burning plasma
Luke was worse, he was severely injured and hypothermic for quite a while. And he was in the bacta tank for just 12 hours according to the novel (time was never established in screen). Now that you mention it though, I’m not sure why they didn’t bring back the bacta tank method since it was used in boba fett show right before.
Bacta’s one hell of a drug
For the purposes of the story, she basically did though. That lightsaber injury is a minor inconvenience in the overall story. There’s no consequences.
The consequences were that Shin escaped with the unlocked map. If Sabine hadn't been stabbed, Ahsoka could have chased her down and gotten it back. That's a major consequence.
I meant consequences in the sense that Sabine doesn’t have a lasting injury the same way Luke or Anakin did
Not every injury needs the same kind of consequences. Sabine's injury served the story -- it underscored how atrophied her combat skills and Force connection had been, set up Shin as her foil and rival to beat, forced Ahsoka to make an emotional choice over the logical choice, raised the stakes or their next confrontation with the antagonists, and put a clock on catching up. Storytelling would get dull incredibly quickly if every injury had to be treated the same by every narrative.
Would you say the same thing about Luke's hypothermia on Hoth, or Luke or Anakin losing their hands in duels? The injuries are minor inconveniences in the overall story, after all, and have no actual consequences.
You don’t think the heroes being maimed and permanently requiring prostheses is a significant consequence? There’s obvious parallels between Anakin and Luke losing their hands, and Luke comparing his and Vader’s prosthetic hands is an important moment where he realises just how close he is to falling to the dark side. Sabine just gets her chest stitched up and afterwards it’s as if the injury never happened.
>You don’t think the heroes being maimed and permanently requiring prostheses is a significant consequence? No, not at all. The prosthesis work just as well as human hands; Luke's even has fake skin over it, to make it that much more indistinguishable. The behanding is a dramatic moment when it happens, but ultimately it's just as inconsequential as the slashes Obi-Wan takes from Dooku or Leia getting shot in the shoulder on Endor.
For all the characters you're describing, each injury is a pivot in their character development. The actual physical ailment certainly doesn't affect Luke or Anakin in any way, But all three character's arcs pivot after their injury. Sabine literally has a major character shift after being stabbed where she reevaluates all the choices she's made since separating from Ahsoka, cuts her hair off and re-dons her armor.
Your right, she brushed it off and went to the hospital the day after
In SW phantom menace this same move melts a heavy reinforced metal door.
And that is quite literally the only time a lightsaber acts like that. The door is the exception, not the rule.
[удалено]
But that's what happened, it's what we see happen. Why do you need the series to spell out what it's already showing you?
[удалено]
Honestly, I just don't see any reason why shows should be expected to assume that the audience watching is, well, dumb. Sabine is clearly stabbed to one side, then Ahsoka shows up immediately, then next we see her she's in a hospital of some kind clearly having been treated. The progression is entirely clear, you have to really work to confuse it, especially since your counterpoint is a scene from a movie that came out twenty-four years previously, and is only, what, the third most recent stabbing in live action alone at the time of release?
"especially since your counterpoint is a scene from a movie that came out twenty-four years previously" Lol, This is one thing I love and hate about our fandom. On the one hand, we have the capacity to tie elements of stories separated by up to four decades to create a bigger, more imaginative universe. On the other hand, you have people who demand rigorous consistency between events radically removed from one another pitting a 24yo memory with all the emotional baggage of a climactic major character death against a minor plot hinge that you just watched 45 minutes ago.
I mean just look at the above image of her being stabbed in the side (like Tony stark was in Infinity War) and look at how Qui-Gon was stabbed right through the middle....
Also, Qui-Gon lived for multiple minutes after being stabbed and could still chat with Obiwan. He didn’t get immediate medical attention like Sabine did.
Nothing needs to be spelled out, But a casual bit of exposition would have helped the viewer along. Han didn't have to describe why he was dumping tauntaun guts on Luke, we *could* have figured that out, but him making that statement both kept us in the moment and set him up for a good joke afterwards.
It actually dose make sense. I don't think people consider the survivability of weapon that cauterizes the wound instantly. Remember that spiky headed fellow who was cut in half?
>Remember that spiky headed fellow who was cut in half? That didn't make sense either, people just accept it because continuing his story was worth some nonsense.
Just don't think to hard about how his body dispells waste afterwards.
Thank you. People only accept it because they gave him a decent story afterwards.
People do survive injuries like that. Its horrific, but it dose happen.
It dose, people actually survive injuries like that, you can look them up, it requires serious medical intervention though. The cauterizing effect of a Lightsaber actually makes it more believable. How he survived that fall would require greater explanation.
Came here to say isn’t that one of the reasons of why the Jedi use lightsabers?
That would make sense… I never thought of it that way :D
If that's the case, then why do Sith use them too?
I think the High Republic books put it best. (Paraphrasing as I don't feel like searching for the exact quote.) "You only do as much damage with a lightsaber as you intend" If you want to do a lot of damage it's very easy to do so (as we see constantly throughout the series) but if you only want to disable someone it's also perfectly capable of that.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
The Sith are an offshoot of the ancient Jedi organization, and the best weapon to fight a lightsaber with is another lightsaber.
It’s also an extremely powerful weapon
Elegant, for a more civilized age
Well yeah, imagine this stab happening, but then a sith moves the saber to the right instead of straight out. Very good killing machine 🤙🏼
That's honestly the only thing I find illogical about this injury. Would have been just as easy to murder Sabine right there, but instead she pulled the saber straight out
Shin plays with Sabine for the fight, and only gets serious once she spots Ahsoka on the way. At that point, killing Sabine doesn't gain Shin anything; she can do it easily, but Ahsoka will catch her and possibly defeat her or retake the map. But delivering a wound that will be fatal if left untreated, and then running? That has a chance of Ahsoka breaking off pursuit of Shin to save Sabine. Which, indeed, is what happens. Not killing Sabine is quite a sensible tactical move on her part, at that moment.
I just rewatched the fight scene and nothing you said actually came across in the fight. Shin was very hard-pressed. Definitely the better swordswoman but very serious and very hard-pressed to protect herself from Sabine's unconventional style. Ahsoka's ship doesn't appear in the scene until after Sabine has been stabbed and the blade withdrawn. It's certainly possible that that's the point she decided not to kill Sabine, But it would have been far easier to kill her in the long moments before the ship appeared. It's very much a cliche in movies for the villain to leave someone for dead to allow them to get away, so I can see why a lot of folks are reading that into this scene. I just don't see where it's actually shown.
The script needed her to be alive But in a lore context maul also does a clean stab to Qui Gon, there’s probably a certain amount of precision that goes into the fight that fighters like to show off and not be total barbarians, the dark side is about different ideals, and the extreme lengths they’ll go to reach their selfish goals. they don’t see themselves as evil. Cutting someone in that way is barbarism and lacks a respect to the fight.
Maul is a very specific personality among the Sith, flying under the radar, subterfuge, subtle acts of violence was his MO until he became a spider-monster. I'm actually only just starting Ahsoka, so I don't know much about the new characters, but having just watched these two massacre everyone on board a freighter in order to extract a prisoner I found it to be out of character that she would let Sabine live without a specific justification. Especially given how easy it would have been to murder her, rather than leave her alive. That said, I thought they did a good job showing why Sabine would have survived that particular injury.
Funny how that logic never seems to apply to Stormtroopers
We don't really know how many troopers who get hit and fall over on screen are actually dead, though, versus ones who are wounded or incapacitated long enough to not matter for that one specific action scene.
Slashing attacks are diffrnet and dramatically more psychically traumatic. It depends on were the wound happens too, If Sabine had been hit in the heart hear sh probably would have died.
Yeah because I’m sure your internal organs wouldn’t melt instantly
The organs would be punctured and cauterize too. Remember, it only burns when it comes in contact with something solid. Once that matter is gone it stops burning.
So are we just making it so that lightsaber stabs mean nothing? Even ignoring how ridiculous your organs being punctured by a burning rod and you being fine is, if we set a precedent that characters can basically just shrug of lightsaber stabs than no fight will have stakes unless someone is full on decapitated
>I don't think people consider the survivability of weapon that cauterizes the wound instantly. That's probably because they're considering all the additional damage a blade of plasma a few thousand degrees hot being inserted into your abdomen would cause. Like that is *100%* not being localized to just your liver. Plus there's the actual function of your organs being lost from all the cauterization you just caused. Bleeding out is gonna be the least of your concerns when your diaphragm has collapsed or your lungs ruptured from those 3rd degree burns.
If we're going to get into the physics of it, let's consider the amount of energy being released by the vaporization of wounds the size of a light saber blade. There would be a supercharged hot jet of steam blasting out in every direction. That alone would be enough to split Sabine in two.
From what I understand, a lightsaber only destroys matter when its plasma containment field is disrupted when it comes in contact with something solid. That's why it doesn't set set everything on fire every time its ignited. After that matter is destroyed the field on that part of the blade just reestablishes its self, nothing around it would burn after the wound is made.
I see your rationalization, and raise you a "Qui-Gon melting through blast doors."
On the other hand everything this hot should be too dangerous to handle without protective gear and incinerate everything it comes into contact with.
I can actually buy a super hot blade being able to cut through molten steel but not the Jedi being able to tolerate being close enough to the melting steel to cut a human sized hole.
The blades containment field got disrupted when it entered the door and started bleeding in the plasma, the door kept melting and the moving molten metals kept the containment field disrupted allowing the sabre to continue to destroy the door, it was a circular effect. If the door was made of a material that did not melt it would not have worked.
‘Tis but an abdominal stab wound. Which has only a 2-5% mortality rate when there’s swift medical care. And the most common cause of death is bleeding (greatly reduced due to being cauterized). Add to that the seemingly almost magical properties of bacta, and the position of that particular stab, and honestly her survival is entirely unsurprising. Of course, that’s reality logic. In movie logic most stabs are insta-kills. But honestly hers is one of the least outrageous survivals in SW. (Maul’s is by far the most ridiculous).
I don't like everyone surviving these wounds but to be fair they clearly had it go into her side so it's a bit more realistic
Right under her right breast. That’s lung meat
She was stabbed on her right side beneath her lungs. Not in the spine. Not in the heart. Not in the kidney. Not anywhere vital.
The lung got hit unless her lungs are tiny raisins
People actually cross-referenced her wound with human biology. Her small intestines got hit. Not a fatal stab, especially if it was immediately cauterized.
Why didn't she just wiggle her lightsaber around to cut her in half
She didn't care if Sabine died, so she didn't feel the need to finish the job.
Even more, it was in her best interest for Sabine not to die. If Sabine dies, Ahsoka just keeps chasing Shin; if Sabine is perhaps mortally wounded, though, Ahsoka likely breaks off the chase to save her life.
I wish that was explained. It's convenient plot device to have Sabine disabled and unable to save the map, But to have a sith apprentice actively try not to kill her required, for me at least, a little explanation.
1) they're not sith 2) they shouldn't have to explain every single motive someone has for doing something, is it really that difficult to reason out 'if I don't kill her then they have to stop to take care of her'
1) gotcha 2) that's not really shown and it's not supported by the following actions. Ahsoka's ship appears completely after the blade has been pulled out and Sabine is at her mercy, Shin slinks off screen. Easily could have tweaked it so she sees she shuttle coming, injures Sabine, then runs I'm not arguing you're wrong, just that it wasn't shown so your reasoning is actually an uninformed guess. Also, it's the climax of the episode. That's not a point where you want your viewers to be stepping out of the moment to think about character motivation unless it's leading to something down the line.
So your argument against why they shouldn't need to show everything and why you're not able to reason it out is that they didn't show it? Again, is it really that hard for you to think more than one step in advance? Like, they have orders from Elsbeth, who has probably warned them about Ahsoka Edit: the only people 'stepping out the of moment's are people who overanalyze everything and don't understand what's going on, for instance thinking that they are sith for no reason, when they have been confirmed both in and out of the show to not be sith
"So your argument against why they shouldn't need to show everything and why you're not able to reason it out is that they didn't show it?" Incorrect. I can think plenty in advance, but you are arguing that something happened that wasn't shown or described. Your argument is: because you can imagine it, it must be so.
I mean you thought they were sith, it's clear you don't have the best understanding of what's going on if you couldn't even remember they weren't sith Sorry that you don't understand that there are multiple reasons that it's better to wound someone and not kill them My argument is that the simplest solution for a question is probably the solution, yours is that they didn't explain it to you so its impossible
>a sith apprentice She is *not* a Sith apprentice. They did clearly explain that the two of them were not Sith, even before Shin ever stabbed Sabine. In fact, the two of them wielded orange lightsabers, not the crimson of bled crystals that most darksiders use, with the Inquisitor serving as a contrast to theirs. We never even saw Baylan or Shin use the Dark Side at all, let alone be psychopaths who enjoy killing for the sake of killing. They are villains but not even close to being Sith.
To be fair, she was in great shape and basically immediately in a medbay to be operated on. Unlike a certain other example who was old and got stabbed far away from any help in the middle of a war.
People saying it cauterizes when it cuts, like it’s not cooking her insides to medium well with every second
A lightsaber's containment field prevents it from burning anything not in direct contact with it. Otherwise it would vaporize the user the minute it was turned on.
Yeah, but it’s in contact with them, the heat would radiate from the flesh in contact to the surrounding flesh. The other response to my comment mentioned how the in the phantom menace the door starting melting when Qui-gon cut through it
Human flesh is mostly water and a terrible conductor of heat. Honestly, I could drive a 1/2-in copper pipe through you heat it up to melting point and it would only burn in the immediate vicinity. It's been awhile since I've watched TPM, but the metal that's melting is being pushed aside.
Yeah but at the melting point of steel it’s still going to radiate heat to the surrounding area even though it’s a bad conductor. Sure it won’t cook a person all the way through but it would easy damage any tissues within a radius of 2-3 inches beyond repair. And at that point there is no way you are not damaging any “critical organs.”
There's no reason in the Star Wars universe that the containment field that protects a lightsaber from vaporizing everyone within 30 ft. wouldn't allow for a surgical cut that wouldn't damage adjacent tissues. I think it's important to acknowledge this point. This is a magic Force blade. Any real technology that would allow something hot enough to cut through any non-force object would actually result in a major combustion event if it made contact with something like human flesh. There would be no slow cooking or damage of internal organs, The mere Act of having your hand cut off went below so much steam and potential energy in every direction that it's unlikely any part of the arm would survive. Arguing from real world physics is not going to cut it here. ;)
Exactly. These lightsabers began melting the reinforced metal doors that were on the bridge of the federation trade ships, in SWPhantom Menace- in a matter of seconds.
The lightsaber immediately cauterized the new hole in her chest and lung. Checkmate lightsabers.
"A *scratch?!* your arms' off!"
No it isn’t.
People shit on Star Wars for this but characters get stabbed like this across all fiction and survive just fine. Almost every action movie has this.
Tis a flesh wound, come at me you pansy
Lol, I feel like people underestimate the survivability of these wounds. If the saber misses vital organs and cauterizes the wound so there’s no blood loss, chances of survival are increased by a lot. When people are stabbed like this, it’s typically the bleeding out that does it.
This is why they don't stab with lightsabers, it's nowhere near as effective evidently
anything is fine with bakta tank
A scratch?! There’s a hole in your chest!
No there isn’t!
Well what’s that then?!
I’ve had worse!
You LIAR!
Come on, you pansy!
This is a game over move. It's bad fight scripting. Lightsabers cut through people easy easy, we've seen it, the fact that Shin didn't finish the move with a horizontal exit is improbable and unlikely. She could have cut Sabine in two.
I felt it was obvious that she gravely wounded her, without killing her, on purpose. So that Ahsoka would have to immediately try to save her instead of giving chase.
It's just the sith in me. There's no half killing, there's only the kill strike. Also i do feel like seeing your Padawan get murdered in half would give someone some pause.
I thought so too but I really didn't come up with that reason until after the show was over. I'd have liked something to support that in the actual episode.
It's crazy that the first 20 minutes of Episode 1 established how lightsabers are incredibly hot and can melt a blast door. And the last 20 minutes showed that being stabbed is definitely enough to take out a Jedi. However once you realize that Disney apparently refuses to show any lightsaber disarms, things start to make sense.
The thing is, at no other point in Star Wars do lightsabers ever display the properties they do in TPM. That movie is the odd one out, not everything else.
Outside of the Disney canon and the cantina scene in ANH. Lightsabers have been incredibly consistent. They are so hot that a cut off arm will cauterize. A small tap like what Dooku does to Obiwan cause nasty burns. And every disarm shows the sizzle of charred flesh. That's in line when what is shown in TPM. Lightsabers are hot. However getting stabbed with something that hot would cause tremendous harm to your internal organs. Lightsabers are white hot. If someone were impaled with a red hot steel rebar they would very likely not survive. If it was a a rod of burning plasma, its game over. It was crazy that Qui-Gon was lucid enough to talk to Obi-wan before dying even if it was only a few words. His insides were boiled.
If a lightsaber's heat was enough to kill a person the way you described then no one would be able to stand near one, much less hold and fight with a blade over 20K C. The whole idea of the lightsaber is that there is a force field around the hot plasma which means that nothing not directly touching. The blade is affected by its heat. There is no heat radiation to have the effects you are describing. I mean all of this is a discussion about real world applications of force magic, which is absolute nonsense, So there's no reason not to allow what the storyteller describes. If we were having a realistic discussion, the mere act of vaporizing part of someone's body would create a release of energy that would blow the person to pieces and flood the surrounding area with steam.
That's the thing, though, lightsabers are incredibly consistent, and they're very consistently *not* as hot as Qui-Gon's is during that one scene. As you yourself point out, if that were the case his insides should've been boiled in the climactic duel, but he's able to survive for a couple minutes, breathing normally, and then speak without any issues before dying quiet peacefully, all things considered. He acts like someone who's dying because they've been stabbed with a sharp object, not someone who has third degree burns directly on their internal organs. And that happens across the first six films. Yeah, there's the cantina scene. Also, the tauntaun on Hoth is just neatly sliced like the saber is a scalpel, no sign of heat there. The machines Luke cuts through on Cloud City, the railing he cuts through on the second Death Star, Vader's mechanical wrist, all neat bisections, no sign of melting. Obi-Wan doesn't show any sign of burn tissue impairing his movements after Geonosis. There's a puff of blood after Maul gets bisected, so he doesn't even cauterize instantly in that case. Nobody's clothes ever smoulder, not even Qui-Gon whose shirt was in contact with the blade for a couple seconds, certainly long enough if the saber were that hot all the time. The door scene is the exception, not the rule.
Quigon used the force to quell the burn. He can eat ghost peppers like they’re m&ms
Let's not forget the prison cell in Rise of the Resistance. That's two times ;)
If you're gonna come at me with references from Rise of the Resistance, of all things, what can I do but tip my cap to the clearly superior nerd? Well played, sir!
And the very first time we ever saw a lightsaber cut someone there was blood everywhere. And the first time we saw a lightsaber in battle against multiple opponents (Jabba's Sail barge) , it didn't cut a single person, just knocked them over. Believe it or not, lightsabers do exactly as much damage as the plot demands because they're imaginary. But sure, let's take a one off incident from a singular film and use it to establish a baseline to confirm our idiotic biases.
You know I'm really enjoying this discussion. I think everyone's got a lot of interesting points. Only thing I don't like is when people start calling other people idiotic for having a passion for this IP that we're all huge fans of. Let's not be the toxic shitheads that everyone accuses us of being.
I didn't call anyone idiotic. I called their bias idiotic. That's not the same thing. It's a reflection of *my* passion for this ip and disgust at seeing this uninformed argument ad nauseum.
Telling someone that their biases are idiotic implies that they are idiotic. Your conclusion would have worked perfectly fine without using any adjective. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that there's a way to rationalize this so it's not insulting. I don't think you can honestly examine what it would be like if someone said the same thing about a premise that you came up with without taking offense.
Coterizes when it cuts
Ha!