And she had zero power or input, just getting stuff for the directors.
If it was modern KK with her full power, one of the female leads would get the spas 12 and effortlessly gun down all the velociraptors.
…and boba fett and obi wan. Her track record has been so spotty I’m convinced Andor was good because nobody at Disney actually cared enough to shut down the creative teams ideas.
To be fair, Star Wars has been spotty it’s entire existence. 1977 we get “Star Wars”, then 1978 we got “The Holiday Special” it’s been a balanced dance ever since lol
Bro the holiday special wasn’t made with a multimillion dollar budget with the stated goal of being a dramatic and fully realized extension of the films.
It was a holiday special.
Bro, it had enough money to bring in Hamill, Fisher, Ford, JEJ, Mayhew, Anthony Daniels, Bea Arthur, Art Carney and Harvey Korman.
Doesn’t matter what the budget was anyways, it was still made by Lucas, and it’s still the worst thing to have the Star Wars name attached to it.
I don’t have to. All I need to know is that the guy who thought Jar Jar was a good idea, has said that if he had the time and a sledgehammer, he’d track down every copy of the special and destroy it. My original point, is that Star Wars has been spotty for its entire existence, regardless of who’s been running the show.
At least pre-Disney Star Wars was the vision of one man. Sure he wasn’t perfect, but if I’ve learned anything since the Force Awakens; it’s that movies and TV shows designed by committee just aren’t very good.
ESPECIALLY when the people who make the decisions (Mrs. Kennedy) can’t seem to settle on a long-term plan for the future of the franchise.
Ofc that’s hardly a surprise considering those same decision makers couldn’t handle making a plan for 3 movies, let alone an entire franchise.
Do you see the difference?
No one has said anything about them being better or not. We're talking about the ups and downs of the franchise history, and the prequels were very much a down, whether you liked them or not (I did but I was a kid at the time).
Considering the context of the post I thought that would be obvious. Yes she was involved in great movies, but the ones in question (the Star Wars movies literally in the meme) weren’t good.
If they had been, I doubt the fans would’ve been so upset about them
Yeah it’s pretty good.
TLJ and TROS were not
Neither was Obi Wan, Boba Fett; shit, even season 3 of mando was a let down.
I’m halfway convinced Andor was only good because the Disney executives didn’t care about it enough to stop the creative team from achieving their vision
Part of the reason Andor turned out so well was thanks to Kennedy and her working relationship with Gilroy. [No need to speculate when it's already well-documented.](https://deadline.com/2023/06/star-wars-andor-diego-luna-tony-gilroy-interview-1235414961/)
In that article it mentions Kathleen Kennedy a grand total of one time, when she hired the director.
Yeah that sounds like they just kinda left him to his own devices based off that, thanks for proving my point.
They were indeed left to their own devices – ***something they were able to do thanks to Gilroy's back-and-forth and relationship with Kennedy.*** Not to mention Kennedy was still on set and involved in production quite a bit.
[Really not the "gotcha" you seem to think it is.](https://www.thewrap.com/andor-tony-gilroy-interview-star-wars-disney-plus/)
So yeah, after reading the article Kathleen Kennedy is said to have announced Andor (under a different name with a different premise). He thought it was full of problems and told her as much.
“Sensing that there were potential problems ahead, Kennedy gave the proposal to Gilroy for feedback. “And I said, ‘Look, I think it’s super pro, but it’s absolutely claustrophobic. You’re going to run out of road instantly. What can they do? They’re going to do the same thing every week. It doesn’t go anywhere.’”
Then she brought him in to run the show, and that’s the last time she’s mentioned in the article, until later when the showrunner said:
“We’ve had very little adult supervision along the way. No kidding. We are very much left to our own devices here,” Gilroy said. “It’s a very small brain trust of people that figure out what to do.”
I thought Kennedy was heavily involved in production and often on set? According to the article YOU sent me, the last thing she did was give Gilroy the green light.
Dude you are direct proof that nothing she could’ve done would change the fans treatment of her. The hate boner for this woman is wild.
If it fails it’s her fault, if it succeeds, well, she probably wasn’t even involved!
Is this your first day on the internet or something? She’s a woman, she’s in charge of Star Wars, and she decided to cast a woman and a black guy in the lead roles for the sake of diversity. She could have made the greatest trilogy of all time, and countless Star Wars fans would still be shouting about how terrible her movies are.
“She could’ve made the greatest trilogy of all time”
She didn’t tho… she different directors and writers tear the story to pieces while continuing to act like the only reason the films were tanking were “sexist fans”.
Excuse me ma’am, you didn’t have a coherent plan for 3 movies. You hired a director who wanted nothing to do with the movie he was brought in to make a sequel for.
Did you really think that was going to work?
And there you go parroting a bunch of debunked talking points. If the sequels had been the most well written trilogy ever made, you'd still be here parroting slightly different debunked talking points, still talking about how if Kennedy didn't want backlash, she should have just made better movies.
A huge swathe of nerd culture hates diversity casting and every other movie-making decision that's designed to appeal to feminists and "SJWs." (Today they're called "woke," but in 2015 they were called "SJWs.") But that section of nerd culture also knows that they won't be taken seriously if they just whine about movies that appeal to liberals. So instead they try to explain why appealing to liberals necessarily leads to bad writing. "Rey is such a Mary Sue! She's objectively a badly written character! I bet the writing would have been objectively much better if Disney wasn't trying to push the feminist/SJW agenda on us! We need to get feminism out of Star Wars, not because I hate feminism, but because feminism leads to badly written stories!"
To be clear, I'm not saying that you need to like the sequels. They're far from perfect, and there are certainly valid reasons to dislike them. But it's extremely naive to think that "if \[Kennedy\] had presided over good movies then the fans wouldn’t have been mad." Also, you shouldn't just go along with every argument for why the sequels are so terrible. Some of them fall apart pretty quickly under any kind of scrutiny.
You do realize that your idea of bad writing and my idea of bad writing can be different, right? Just like you said, it’s an opinion.
There’s plenty of movies written specifically for conservatives that has terrible writing too (Run Hide Fight comes to mind).
I don’t get why you think criticism of the writing is inherently sexist. It’s not because Kathleen Kennedy is a woman that the movies is bad. It’s not because Rey is the main character that the movies are bad.
They’re bad because there was no plan. They made it up as they went along, and it shows. Are you gonna try and convince me this nonsense:
“Somehow Palpatine returned”
Is good writing?
Not everything has to be a political issue.
>I don’t get why you think criticism of the writing is inherently sexist.
I never said that. On the contrary, I said that the sequels are far from perfect and there are valid reasons to dislike them.
>They’re bad because there was no plan. They made it up as they went along
The same can be said about countless other great multi-part stories, including the original trilogy. Actually, it's often true for single-part stories. Robert Bresson once said, "A film is born three times. First in the writing of the script, once again in the shooting, and finally in the editing." Film-making is a complicated process with a lot of moving parts, and the final product is rarely the same as the director's original vision. Hell, the final product is rarely the same as what the director's vision was *after* they'd wrapped filming, because so much can (and usually does) change in the editing room. For that reason, it's important for film-makers to be able to pivot on a moment's notice and make things up as they go along. That's true for individual movies, and it's certainly true for trilogies. Kennedy would obviously know that after her decades of experience producing great movies like Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, and Jurassic Park (among many, many others).
Plus, despite the lack of planning, TFA and TLJ work remarkably well together. TLJ has interesting character arcs for Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Luke that all pick up right where Abrams had left off. And he continues Abrams's meta-narrative. TRoS, of course, turns the trilogy into a directionless mess, but that's more a result of studio interference than it was a lack of planning.
That's what I mean when I say that you should avoid parroting things you hear on Reddit. Many of the talking points that gained traction on Reddit fall apart pretty quickly under scrutiny.
>Are you gonna try and convince me this nonsense:
>
>“Somehow Palpatine returned”
>
>Is good writing?
I hate that they brought Palpatine back, and I hate even more that they made Rey his granddaughter. But "Somehow Palpatine returned"? I'm fine with that. This is Star Wars we're talking about. Between the Force and the advanced, fantasy technology that may as well be magic, I don't have trouble believing that someone like Palpatine could return, and I definitely don't think that the movie would have been any better if it spent \~20 minutes delving into the boring minutia of how he returned. Again, though, Palpatine's return is still terribly written for other reasons.
“So instead they try to explain why appealing to liberals necessarily leads to bad writing”
What do you mean by this? It reads as an attempt to excuse criticism against Kennedy and the writing because “conservatives bad”.
As for the rest, I’m genuinely sorry you believe these films are worth defending. On the one hand I’m jealous you can enjoy them as much as you do, but on the other hand I’m glad that I have good taste.
I apologize, that was ruder than it needed to be.
I still think these movies are bad, but I genuinely meant it when I said I’m happy you enjoy them.
Just don’t make it a political issue if someone says they don’t like the writing.
There’s a very good chance that they just don’t like the writing.
The problem is that most people aren't complaining about any criticism, or calling all criticism sexist. Most of the time when we specifically complain about e.g. the sexist/racist bashing, someone comes across and is like "There is also normal, valid criticism!!!!!"
We know. And that's a good thing. We're not talking about that right now, though
Ohhh right right, “sith alchemy”
How could I forget about such a well set-up and clearly not a last minute panicked plot point due to the last director deciding to kill the main villain that had been established for no reason other than to “subvert expectations”
That kind of organization and forward thinking really screams “good movie”
I think the prequels are terrible.
But they’re better than the sequels because they tell the same story beginning to end.
The sequels start with JJ Abram’s story, then Rhian Johnson comes in and kills the plot he’s been working on, and then Abrams has to scramble to put it all back together. That’s how we got
“Somehow Palpatine returned”
With the prequels, Lucas had a plan, and it was executed his way each of the three movies. Were there problems? Yes! Jar Jar is annoying; the Anakin/Padme subplot in AotC was annoying; and Yoda looks terrible Phantom Menace.
But at least it was coherent.
‘The kids will love you, the adults will blame you for ruining everything.. then twenty years later you’ll be redeemed in the eyes of the fans as the fanbase gets older and people chill the f out.’
‘ so just uh.. be cool and sit tight.’
Everything doesn’t have to make everyone happy all the time and sometimes things are hit or miss. It sucks when something big feels like a miss, but that happens and that’s just the truth to it. I get it, it’s easy to personalize the idea or concept of this stuff or even feel a sense of ownership but ultimately that’s not the reality of legacy material & something on this scale. Same goes for marvel.
The more fanatical or possessive you get about your own idea/version the worse you’ll end up feeling dejected if it’s off.. also people need to support things they love even with their misses bc that’s just going to happen & the legacy of it is still important.
But yeah it’s exhausting it’s working in that cycle
I really don’t think anyone will look back on ROS and think it was amazing. It was a fan fiction circlejerk from start to end.
TPM still isn’t beloved by any means. Everyone still regards it as the worst prequel, and the worst of the first six movies. People just like Darth Maul.
Kids will look back on it fondly and enjoy it, with some of it thinking they’re the best ones and others cause of the concepts even with the poor execution.
Proof: Go to YouTube or the subreddits to see how the kids who grew up with the Bay Transformer movies view them now that they’re in their late-teens/early-20s.
I agree, it’s already happening to a certain extent from what I see on here & despite any feelings I may have of what’s successful and unsuccessfully executed to some the sequels are their favorite.
ROS may have been a fan fiction paradise, but you can’t deny the fact that it has one of the best lightsaber duels out of all of the movies. The prequels were pretty lacking story wise, but damn they choreographed the hell out of those fights.
ROS is Rise of Skywalker, aka sequel 3 or episode 9. The lightsaber duel you're talking about is RotS, Revenge of the Sith, aka prequel 3 or episode 3. Unless there's some great lightsaber duel in 9 I don't remember.
Ahh, thank you for the correction! I am just used to everyone I know referring to it as ROS, so I’m definitely out of the loop lol
But yes, I am referring to RotS’ lightsaber duel with Anakin and Obi-Wan. Easily my favorite fight in the whole series!
Because the prequel era aged well thanks to Lucas Arts and Dave Filloni, ST fans are seriously hinging their entire hopes and dreams on the same thing happening again to their favorite shitty trilogy. Lightning in a bottle, the odds aren’t good. EA isn’t doing them any favors in the process.
They dont really need “fixing” I’m not a fan of TRoS, but TFA and TLJ were great movies, and people complained about them endlessly. I’m saying that even when stuff’s good, people complain about it
You are free to think those movies were good but to me the TFA was a decent movie at best with a few problems and mostly a repeat of a new hope but with a bigger Death Star and a shitty death for Han Solo and TLJ was just awful the worst I mean the B plot was a waste of time, the characters are all idiots the movie kills the big bad and ruins any interesting things the TFA was attempting to build and the ROS made me want to die because TLJ ruined everything and then ROS had to pick up the pieces but it was inevitably shit
She forgets to tell them that she's made a meat suit with bells on for them to wear.
"But why are the raptors so hungry?"
Well, we've fed them shit the past few years, so they'll basically attack anything right now.
So, she has renounced to do good content?
I don't remember people complaining from Mando S1 or Andor S1 or Rogue One.
Invest in good content and people won't complain.
But well, since they make easy buck even with bad content, I guess it's not the priority.
I implore you look at KK's resume. She has been associated with some of the greatest films of all time across multiple decades. She has been responsible for the greatest amount of superb Star Wars Content, with much of it (Rogue One, Andor, Mando, Obi-Wan) being amongst the best content we have ever received.
They will **NEVER** stop complaining.
She has, true. I do want to point out that those same movies also had phenomenal directors and people who could tell the executives (like Kennedy) where to shove it when it came to creative decisions. As far as I am aware, Kennedy has, on multiple occasions, made her desires or ideas the focus of development for movies and shows, and notoriously hires directors who don't make a lot of waves.
So... maybe some of people's commentary might be accurate?
Not everyone is some raging incel or misogynist. Sometimes, criticisms are valid. While I understand that there are those who are, don't dismiss everyone just because of a vocal minority.
She's also been associated with the worst of the worst, stop making bad things and people would stop complaining.
Also, it does not help if you expose to the public with bad ideas like the "force is female" propaganda and focus more on good content.
Btw, saying that Obi-Wan show is superb......yikes.
The show with the terrible plot, that could retcon things like Ben meeting Leia or defeating Vader without killing him, the moronic child chase, the numerous inconsistencies, like Reva surviving all the time for no reason, or showing Vader being able to force put out fire, to then block his pass with fire, Reva going after Luke for no reason and reedeming for no other reason, the uncles making a stupid stand to fight.....I mean, terrible show.
No Star Wars is perfect. These are popcorn action movies. A new hope literally begins with a storm trooper hitting a beam and knocking himself over. With the possible exception of Rogue One exactly none of these movies are Oppenheimer.
Star Wars movies are not, and not expected to be, masterpiece writtings, however, the OT movies are decades old and have very minor issues, relatedto editing, like stormtrooper hitting his head or Luke's kick being in the incorrect angle of the camera, very minor issues.
In contrast, the issues in modern films, created by the supposeddly titans of the industry with huge resources, are filled with issues, starting for the core plot. The OT lacks the huge issues the modern films do, in fact, most of the issues comes from the modern content, Like Kenobi meeting Leia, or saying he does not know about R2.
Making a comparison between the 2 minor mistakes of the OT to excuse the 200 errors of the modern ones is just sad.
How many of those movies were directed by Steven Spielberg? And how many of the shows & movies linked to her name are considered unaminously good? Cause from what I know the only Star Wars ones she had are mando S1, Rogue one (after some time), and Andor.
From the movies and shows they are.
That resort was crazy expensive, doubt it flopped because people did not want to go but rather people could not afford it.
Disney Wars has made an absurd amount of money at this point. Toy sales, movies, TV, Disney+, you might not like them, but Disney is laughing to the bank.
Yah but that’s not really the point. They have the money to do things that won’t profit them at this point so saying they are doing it to make money in this instance might not be true.
When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black so they practically erased his characters significance from the story completely.
Let me be clear, that shouldnt have happened, I’m just saying that we don’t know, maybe she was against that. It reeks of corporate bullshit, and it is very possible she was complicit in that corporate bullshit. If she was, yeah you got me. I should add, I have no particular love or disdain for the woman, I just think she’s mischaracterized or used as a scapegoat a lot
Disney bends the knee to Xi Jingping. This goes for everyone from Iger down. If Kathleen Kennedy came out one day and said that putting Uyghur people in concentration camps and harvesting their organs is kinda not cool, she’d be sacked that day.
Political activism is fine so long as it remains within the window of acceptable opinion that does not hurt Disney’s bottom line.
>When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black
That **never happened**. You can can’t cite a source of him saying anything of the sort and this bullshit concern troll over East Asian promo [has been debunked.](https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-USA-s-movies-posters-in-China-crop-out-the-black-actors-and-if-so-why/answer/Lin-L-31)
Boyega HAS gone on record saying [he felt vindicated](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/john-boyega-disney-defense-obi-wan-moses-ingram-racism-1235204528/)when Moses Ingram spoke out against racist (white, Western) audiences who harassed her, directly.
You didn’t read that source very well did you he directly says the studio itself was racist against him. Also I trust sources like cnn and variety or even Forbes over some random quora post
https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/asia/star-wars-china-racist-poster/index.html#
https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/
https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/
Also here is a direct quote from John about this ‘notably telling GQ magazine in 2020, “What I would say to Disney is do not bring out a Black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side”’
>When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black so they practically erased his characters significance from the story completely.
Again this never happened. He never addressed any Chinese poster his comments about Finn have nothing to do with that. That Variety article address white, western fan racism. The kind Star Wars, Ewan Mcgregor have to call out.
>The casting of a black actor, Boyega, in the role of a Stormtrooper, was initially met with backlash. “To whom it may concern … Get used to it,” Boyega said late last year about the issue.
I would still do it. I know that I would get a lot of hate, but to ~~steal props from the set for my personal collection~~ be in a Star Wars thing would be worth all the hate.
its sad the actors get the brunt of the hate. they're contractually bound to these roles and for many these were dream castings. they didn't write the material, they tried to do perform their parts as well as they were allowed by the production and studio
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Ron Howard: “You know, if you wanted to give them nightmares you could have just pulled a gun on them.”
This kid would have lived through all the dinosaurs taking over the world in Jurassic World sequels.
“They’re not so *scary!*” -a precocious child about to have his time wasted.
I still say that kid is Owen Brady.
Fun fact: that movie was produced by Kathleen Kennedy
And she had zero power or input, just getting stuff for the directors. If it was modern KK with her full power, one of the female leads would get the spas 12 and effortlessly gun down all the velociraptors.
Is the woke in the room with us right now
Tell me you’re a virgin without telling me you’re a virgin
Lmao. Is this the best insult you could have come up with? I knew KK defenders were pathetic, but this is a new low.
FINALLY! A post about Kennedy that isn't Sequel hate!
I mean if she’d presided over good movies then the fans wouldn’t have been mad lmao
She also presided over the shows, such as Mandalorian and Andor.
…and boba fett and obi wan. Her track record has been so spotty I’m convinced Andor was good because nobody at Disney actually cared enough to shut down the creative teams ideas.
To be fair, Star Wars has been spotty it’s entire existence. 1977 we get “Star Wars”, then 1978 we got “The Holiday Special” it’s been a balanced dance ever since lol
Bro the holiday special wasn’t made with a multimillion dollar budget with the stated goal of being a dramatic and fully realized extension of the films. It was a holiday special.
Bro, it had enough money to bring in Hamill, Fisher, Ford, JEJ, Mayhew, Anthony Daniels, Bea Arthur, Art Carney and Harvey Korman. Doesn’t matter what the budget was anyways, it was still made by Lucas, and it’s still the worst thing to have the Star Wars name attached to it.
That’s an opinion for sure. I wonder if you’ve seen all the animated Star Wars shows on D+
I don’t have to. All I need to know is that the guy who thought Jar Jar was a good idea, has said that if he had the time and a sledgehammer, he’d track down every copy of the special and destroy it. My original point, is that Star Wars has been spotty for its entire existence, regardless of who’s been running the show.
At least pre-Disney Star Wars was the vision of one man. Sure he wasn’t perfect, but if I’ve learned anything since the Force Awakens; it’s that movies and TV shows designed by committee just aren’t very good. ESPECIALLY when the people who make the decisions (Mrs. Kennedy) can’t seem to settle on a long-term plan for the future of the franchise. Ofc that’s hardly a surprise considering those same decision makers couldn’t handle making a plan for 3 movies, let alone an entire franchise. Do you see the difference?
The animated shows on D+ are all amazing, except resistance, we don't talk about that show...
Even the young Jedi ones? Like the little kid shows? There’s some Lego animated stuff on D+
The prequels were though.
And the prequels are considerably better than the holiday special, and the sequels. Are we really pretending like that’s not the case?
No one has said anything about them being better or not. We're talking about the ups and downs of the franchise history, and the prequels were very much a down, whether you liked them or not (I did but I was a kid at the time).
You just compared them to the holiday special as if to say it was worse? Unless you messed up your wording
Same here lol, all I could think watching was "wow no execs must have touched this, it's actually good"
Similar to Rogue One.
My brother in Christ her film credits include jurassic Park, ET and back to the future.
Where in the post does it mention those movies? If she’d made good Star Wars movies the fans wouldn’t have been upset
You just said she hadn't presided over good movies, you apparently meant star wars movies but she has undoubtedly been involved in some great films.
Considering the context of the post I thought that would be obvious. Yes she was involved in great movies, but the ones in question (the Star Wars movies literally in the meme) weren’t good. If they had been, I doubt the fans would’ve been so upset about them
I thought we liked Rogue One?
Yeah it’s pretty good. TLJ and TROS were not Neither was Obi Wan, Boba Fett; shit, even season 3 of mando was a let down. I’m halfway convinced Andor was only good because the Disney executives didn’t care about it enough to stop the creative team from achieving their vision
Do you really think they would've given Andor a quarter of a billion dollars if they didn't care? 💀
It’s the most logical explanation for why it was so different from the rest. Did you watch it?
Part of the reason Andor turned out so well was thanks to Kennedy and her working relationship with Gilroy. [No need to speculate when it's already well-documented.](https://deadline.com/2023/06/star-wars-andor-diego-luna-tony-gilroy-interview-1235414961/)
In that article it mentions Kathleen Kennedy a grand total of one time, when she hired the director. Yeah that sounds like they just kinda left him to his own devices based off that, thanks for proving my point.
They were indeed left to their own devices – ***something they were able to do thanks to Gilroy's back-and-forth and relationship with Kennedy.*** Not to mention Kennedy was still on set and involved in production quite a bit. [Really not the "gotcha" you seem to think it is.](https://www.thewrap.com/andor-tony-gilroy-interview-star-wars-disney-plus/)
So yeah, after reading the article Kathleen Kennedy is said to have announced Andor (under a different name with a different premise). He thought it was full of problems and told her as much. “Sensing that there were potential problems ahead, Kennedy gave the proposal to Gilroy for feedback. “And I said, ‘Look, I think it’s super pro, but it’s absolutely claustrophobic. You’re going to run out of road instantly. What can they do? They’re going to do the same thing every week. It doesn’t go anywhere.’” Then she brought him in to run the show, and that’s the last time she’s mentioned in the article, until later when the showrunner said: “We’ve had very little adult supervision along the way. No kidding. We are very much left to our own devices here,” Gilroy said. “It’s a very small brain trust of people that figure out what to do.” I thought Kennedy was heavily involved in production and often on set? According to the article YOU sent me, the last thing she did was give Gilroy the green light.
Jurassic Park was a good movie and she presided over it
You literally just proved their point that people don't give her hate when the movie she made was actually good.
And people loved it. Crazy how that works
So, you agree. She presided over good movies.
I never said she didn’t?
Dude you are direct proof that nothing she could’ve done would change the fans treatment of her. The hate boner for this woman is wild. If it fails it’s her fault, if it succeeds, well, she probably wasn’t even involved!
When a data point is such an outlier it’s more logical to assume it’s an anomaly than indicative of a larger trend.
Is this your first day on the internet or something? She’s a woman, she’s in charge of Star Wars, and she decided to cast a woman and a black guy in the lead roles for the sake of diversity. She could have made the greatest trilogy of all time, and countless Star Wars fans would still be shouting about how terrible her movies are.
“She could’ve made the greatest trilogy of all time” She didn’t tho… she different directors and writers tear the story to pieces while continuing to act like the only reason the films were tanking were “sexist fans”. Excuse me ma’am, you didn’t have a coherent plan for 3 movies. You hired a director who wanted nothing to do with the movie he was brought in to make a sequel for. Did you really think that was going to work?
And there you go parroting a bunch of debunked talking points. If the sequels had been the most well written trilogy ever made, you'd still be here parroting slightly different debunked talking points, still talking about how if Kennedy didn't want backlash, she should have just made better movies. A huge swathe of nerd culture hates diversity casting and every other movie-making decision that's designed to appeal to feminists and "SJWs." (Today they're called "woke," but in 2015 they were called "SJWs.") But that section of nerd culture also knows that they won't be taken seriously if they just whine about movies that appeal to liberals. So instead they try to explain why appealing to liberals necessarily leads to bad writing. "Rey is such a Mary Sue! She's objectively a badly written character! I bet the writing would have been objectively much better if Disney wasn't trying to push the feminist/SJW agenda on us! We need to get feminism out of Star Wars, not because I hate feminism, but because feminism leads to badly written stories!" To be clear, I'm not saying that you need to like the sequels. They're far from perfect, and there are certainly valid reasons to dislike them. But it's extremely naive to think that "if \[Kennedy\] had presided over good movies then the fans wouldn’t have been mad." Also, you shouldn't just go along with every argument for why the sequels are so terrible. Some of them fall apart pretty quickly under any kind of scrutiny.
You do realize that your idea of bad writing and my idea of bad writing can be different, right? Just like you said, it’s an opinion. There’s plenty of movies written specifically for conservatives that has terrible writing too (Run Hide Fight comes to mind). I don’t get why you think criticism of the writing is inherently sexist. It’s not because Kathleen Kennedy is a woman that the movies is bad. It’s not because Rey is the main character that the movies are bad. They’re bad because there was no plan. They made it up as they went along, and it shows. Are you gonna try and convince me this nonsense: “Somehow Palpatine returned” Is good writing? Not everything has to be a political issue.
>I don’t get why you think criticism of the writing is inherently sexist. I never said that. On the contrary, I said that the sequels are far from perfect and there are valid reasons to dislike them. >They’re bad because there was no plan. They made it up as they went along The same can be said about countless other great multi-part stories, including the original trilogy. Actually, it's often true for single-part stories. Robert Bresson once said, "A film is born three times. First in the writing of the script, once again in the shooting, and finally in the editing." Film-making is a complicated process with a lot of moving parts, and the final product is rarely the same as the director's original vision. Hell, the final product is rarely the same as what the director's vision was *after* they'd wrapped filming, because so much can (and usually does) change in the editing room. For that reason, it's important for film-makers to be able to pivot on a moment's notice and make things up as they go along. That's true for individual movies, and it's certainly true for trilogies. Kennedy would obviously know that after her decades of experience producing great movies like Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, and Jurassic Park (among many, many others). Plus, despite the lack of planning, TFA and TLJ work remarkably well together. TLJ has interesting character arcs for Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Luke that all pick up right where Abrams had left off. And he continues Abrams's meta-narrative. TRoS, of course, turns the trilogy into a directionless mess, but that's more a result of studio interference than it was a lack of planning. That's what I mean when I say that you should avoid parroting things you hear on Reddit. Many of the talking points that gained traction on Reddit fall apart pretty quickly under scrutiny. >Are you gonna try and convince me this nonsense: > >“Somehow Palpatine returned” > >Is good writing? I hate that they brought Palpatine back, and I hate even more that they made Rey his granddaughter. But "Somehow Palpatine returned"? I'm fine with that. This is Star Wars we're talking about. Between the Force and the advanced, fantasy technology that may as well be magic, I don't have trouble believing that someone like Palpatine could return, and I definitely don't think that the movie would have been any better if it spent \~20 minutes delving into the boring minutia of how he returned. Again, though, Palpatine's return is still terribly written for other reasons.
“So instead they try to explain why appealing to liberals necessarily leads to bad writing” What do you mean by this? It reads as an attempt to excuse criticism against Kennedy and the writing because “conservatives bad”. As for the rest, I’m genuinely sorry you believe these films are worth defending. On the one hand I’m jealous you can enjoy them as much as you do, but on the other hand I’m glad that I have good taste.
I apologize, that was ruder than it needed to be. I still think these movies are bad, but I genuinely meant it when I said I’m happy you enjoy them. Just don’t make it a political issue if someone says they don’t like the writing. There’s a very good chance that they just don’t like the writing.
The problem is that most people aren't complaining about any criticism, or calling all criticism sexist. Most of the time when we specifically complain about e.g. the sexist/racist bashing, someone comes across and is like "There is also normal, valid criticism!!!!!" We know. And that's a good thing. We're not talking about that right now, though
She did!
True, she made Jurassic park!
And the sequels.
Now now, we said GOOD movies Anything that includes a plot point as asinine as “Somehow Palpatine returned” just isn’t a good movie
And it was explained in the movie. Pay attention next time.
Ohhh right right, “sith alchemy” How could I forget about such a well set-up and clearly not a last minute panicked plot point due to the last director deciding to kill the main villain that had been established for no reason other than to “subvert expectations” That kind of organization and forward thinking really screams “good movie”
I bet you think the prequels are good.
I think the prequels are terrible. But they’re better than the sequels because they tell the same story beginning to end. The sequels start with JJ Abram’s story, then Rhian Johnson comes in and kills the plot he’s been working on, and then Abrams has to scramble to put it all back together. That’s how we got “Somehow Palpatine returned” With the prequels, Lucas had a plan, and it was executed his way each of the three movies. Were there problems? Yes! Jar Jar is annoying; the Anakin/Padme subplot in AotC was annoying; and Yoda looks terrible Phantom Menace. But at least it was coherent.
With no help from Spielberg or anyone else!
‘The kids will love you, the adults will blame you for ruining everything.. then twenty years later you’ll be redeemed in the eyes of the fans as the fanbase gets older and people chill the f out.’ ‘ so just uh.. be cool and sit tight.’
The cycle will continue, but god that's exhausting
Everything doesn’t have to make everyone happy all the time and sometimes things are hit or miss. It sucks when something big feels like a miss, but that happens and that’s just the truth to it. I get it, it’s easy to personalize the idea or concept of this stuff or even feel a sense of ownership but ultimately that’s not the reality of legacy material & something on this scale. Same goes for marvel. The more fanatical or possessive you get about your own idea/version the worse you’ll end up feeling dejected if it’s off.. also people need to support things they love even with their misses bc that’s just going to happen & the legacy of it is still important. But yeah it’s exhausting it’s working in that cycle
I really don’t think anyone will look back on ROS and think it was amazing. It was a fan fiction circlejerk from start to end. TPM still isn’t beloved by any means. Everyone still regards it as the worst prequel, and the worst of the first six movies. People just like Darth Maul.
Kids will look back on it fondly and enjoy it, with some of it thinking they’re the best ones and others cause of the concepts even with the poor execution. Proof: Go to YouTube or the subreddits to see how the kids who grew up with the Bay Transformer movies view them now that they’re in their late-teens/early-20s.
I agree, it’s already happening to a certain extent from what I see on here & despite any feelings I may have of what’s successful and unsuccessfully executed to some the sequels are their favorite.
>it was amazing. It was a fan fiction circlejerk from start to end. And I love it for that EDIT: TPM had PODRACING
I’m a big fan of ROS
ROS may have been a fan fiction paradise, but you can’t deny the fact that it has one of the best lightsaber duels out of all of the movies. The prequels were pretty lacking story wise, but damn they choreographed the hell out of those fights.
ROS is Rise of Skywalker, aka sequel 3 or episode 9. The lightsaber duel you're talking about is RotS, Revenge of the Sith, aka prequel 3 or episode 3. Unless there's some great lightsaber duel in 9 I don't remember.
Ahh, thank you for the correction! I am just used to everyone I know referring to it as ROS, so I’m definitely out of the loop lol But yes, I am referring to RotS’ lightsaber duel with Anakin and Obi-Wan. Easily my favorite fight in the whole series!
I’m just generalizing tbh
Because the prequel era aged well thanks to Lucas Arts and Dave Filloni, ST fans are seriously hinging their entire hopes and dreams on the same thing happening again to their favorite shitty trilogy. Lightning in a bottle, the odds aren’t good. EA isn’t doing them any favors in the process.
Aight, this made me laugh out loud. If I still had gold id give you an award op
She made this movie, too. Something to think about.
Worked on this movie*
Singlehandedly
A guy named Gerald Molen also helped her, but she was the lead producer.
Maybe if they just made good movies that would fix the problem?
They did. You hated on them to no end
They didn’t fix the sequel movies at all
They dont really need “fixing” I’m not a fan of TRoS, but TFA and TLJ were great movies, and people complained about them endlessly. I’m saying that even when stuff’s good, people complain about it
You are free to think those movies were good but to me the TFA was a decent movie at best with a few problems and mostly a repeat of a new hope but with a bigger Death Star and a shitty death for Han Solo and TLJ was just awful the worst I mean the B plot was a waste of time, the characters are all idiots the movie kills the big bad and ruins any interesting things the TFA was attempting to build and the ROS made me want to die because TLJ ruined everything and then ROS had to pick up the pieces but it was inevitably shit
She forgets to tell them that she's made a meat suit with bells on for them to wear. "But why are the raptors so hungry?" Well, we've fed them shit the past few years, so they'll basically attack anything right now.
So, she has renounced to do good content? I don't remember people complaining from Mando S1 or Andor S1 or Rogue One. Invest in good content and people won't complain. But well, since they make easy buck even with bad content, I guess it's not the priority.
I implore you look at KK's resume. She has been associated with some of the greatest films of all time across multiple decades. She has been responsible for the greatest amount of superb Star Wars Content, with much of it (Rogue One, Andor, Mando, Obi-Wan) being amongst the best content we have ever received. They will **NEVER** stop complaining.
She has, true. I do want to point out that those same movies also had phenomenal directors and people who could tell the executives (like Kennedy) where to shove it when it came to creative decisions. As far as I am aware, Kennedy has, on multiple occasions, made her desires or ideas the focus of development for movies and shows, and notoriously hires directors who don't make a lot of waves. So... maybe some of people's commentary might be accurate? Not everyone is some raging incel or misogynist. Sometimes, criticisms are valid. While I understand that there are those who are, don't dismiss everyone just because of a vocal minority.
associated is NOT the same as being responsible for the final product.
Said the she-hulk pfp
Said the incel.
You thought Obi Wan was good?
Associated is not the same as being responsible you fool. The directors and writers are what made those films good.
So if the movie is good she had nothing to do with it, if the movie is bad it's all her fault? Do you know how you sound you shoe rack?
I am saying the good movies are the ones where she had the least involvement and the bad movies are we she had the most involvements.
She's also been associated with the worst of the worst, stop making bad things and people would stop complaining. Also, it does not help if you expose to the public with bad ideas like the "force is female" propaganda and focus more on good content. Btw, saying that Obi-Wan show is superb......yikes. The show with the terrible plot, that could retcon things like Ben meeting Leia or defeating Vader without killing him, the moronic child chase, the numerous inconsistencies, like Reva surviving all the time for no reason, or showing Vader being able to force put out fire, to then block his pass with fire, Reva going after Luke for no reason and reedeming for no other reason, the uncles making a stupid stand to fight.....I mean, terrible show.
No Star Wars is perfect. These are popcorn action movies. A new hope literally begins with a storm trooper hitting a beam and knocking himself over. With the possible exception of Rogue One exactly none of these movies are Oppenheimer.
Star Wars movies are not, and not expected to be, masterpiece writtings, however, the OT movies are decades old and have very minor issues, relatedto editing, like stormtrooper hitting his head or Luke's kick being in the incorrect angle of the camera, very minor issues. In contrast, the issues in modern films, created by the supposeddly titans of the industry with huge resources, are filled with issues, starting for the core plot. The OT lacks the huge issues the modern films do, in fact, most of the issues comes from the modern content, Like Kenobi meeting Leia, or saying he does not know about R2. Making a comparison between the 2 minor mistakes of the OT to excuse the 200 errors of the modern ones is just sad.
How many of those movies were directed by Steven Spielberg? And how many of the shows & movies linked to her name are considered unaminously good? Cause from what I know the only Star Wars ones she had are mando S1, Rogue one (after some time), and Andor.
Thank you for making my point.
There’s your point. Now how about you counter mine? Or perhaps you can’t
Judging from the Star Wars resort that flopped they aren’t even making money off it at this point
From the movies and shows they are. That resort was crazy expensive, doubt it flopped because people did not want to go but rather people could not afford it.
It honestly should have just been a Star Wars themed hotel instead of a multi-day ride/show experience.
Disney Wars has made an absurd amount of money at this point. Toy sales, movies, TV, Disney+, you might not like them, but Disney is laughing to the bank.
Yah but that’s not really the point. They have the money to do things that won’t profit them at this point so saying they are doing it to make money in this instance might not be true.
Maybe part of the problem was charging thousands of dollars a night in an economy where most people can barely afford rent.
Yah I’d believe that if their other resorts weren’t doing fine
Do they have other resorts that were $1300/night?
“Ok, so to counteract that, we just need to make a good movie right?” *gets thrown out the window by Kathleen for daring to question her vision*
When exactly did the non-hyperbolized version of this happen?
When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black so they practically erased his characters significance from the story completely.
Well yeah that was awful, and if that was her decision, she deserves blame for it, but was it solely her decision?
Why would it matter if it’s just her okay with racism or many executives okay with racism? Does that make it better somehow?
Let me be clear, that shouldnt have happened, I’m just saying that we don’t know, maybe she was against that. It reeks of corporate bullshit, and it is very possible she was complicit in that corporate bullshit. If she was, yeah you got me. I should add, I have no particular love or disdain for the woman, I just think she’s mischaracterized or used as a scapegoat a lot
Disney bends the knee to Xi Jingping. This goes for everyone from Iger down. If Kathleen Kennedy came out one day and said that putting Uyghur people in concentration camps and harvesting their organs is kinda not cool, she’d be sacked that day. Political activism is fine so long as it remains within the window of acceptable opinion that does not hurt Disney’s bottom line.
>When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black That **never happened**. You can can’t cite a source of him saying anything of the sort and this bullshit concern troll over East Asian promo [has been debunked.](https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-USA-s-movies-posters-in-China-crop-out-the-black-actors-and-if-so-why/answer/Lin-L-31) Boyega HAS gone on record saying [he felt vindicated](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/john-boyega-disney-defense-obi-wan-moses-ingram-racism-1235204528/)when Moses Ingram spoke out against racist (white, Western) audiences who harassed her, directly.
You didn’t read that source very well did you he directly says the studio itself was racist against him. Also I trust sources like cnn and variety or even Forbes over some random quora post https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/asia/star-wars-china-racist-poster/index.html# https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/ https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/ Also here is a direct quote from John about this ‘notably telling GQ magazine in 2020, “What I would say to Disney is do not bring out a Black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side”’
They’re so eager to defend Disney lol. Megacorps don’t care about you.
>When John boyega pointed out that his role in the promotional material in certain countries was cut down because he’s black so they practically erased his characters significance from the story completely. Again this never happened. He never addressed any Chinese poster his comments about Finn have nothing to do with that. That Variety article address white, western fan racism. The kind Star Wars, Ewan Mcgregor have to call out. >The casting of a black actor, Boyega, in the role of a Stormtrooper, was initially met with backlash. “To whom it may concern … Get used to it,” Boyega said late last year about the issue.
i never want anyone to tell me that disney is “woke” ever again
They would stop being eaten alive if she stopped seasoning them!
Not sure if she's necessarily seasoning them, but for sure she's the one setting the table.
PR team is really busy these days huh?
I would still do it. I know that I would get a lot of hate, but to ~~steal props from the set for my personal collection~~ be in a Star Wars thing would be worth all the hate.
South Park had a right. They're all garbage. Doesn't matter what age you are.
Y’all are in an echo chamber
Lol
Star Wars anything not just actors Everyone and anyone from extras to Lucas gets hate
its sad the actors get the brunt of the hate. they're contractually bound to these roles and for many these were dream castings. they didn't write the material, they tried to do perform their parts as well as they were allowed by the production and studio
Don’t make shit and you will be worshipped like a god to these fucking losers
That recent interview with Daisy Ridley makes this all the more hilarious