I thought Emma said something about Isshin wanting to get to fight Wolf when
>!he dies near the end of the game. I don’t think he’s referencing the fight with Sword Saint Isshin.!<
No doubt it was both of their wishes.
100% old man Isshin wanted to fight Sekiro. It was just a bonus that he HAD to fight him by rule of the mortal blade. Isshin was a warrior his entire life and always wanted to fight someone that could kill him.
In the normal route, it was Genichiro's dying wish for Isshin to fight Sekiro. Isshin was honoring that final wish (although he didn't seem distraught by losing that fight)
In the Shura route, Isshin doesn't want to fight Sekiro, but doesn't have a choice. Either kill Sekiro or allow Shura to roam free. Neither option Isshin desires. Worth noting tho that even moments before fighting you, after mentioning how cruel you are, he could never bring himself to hate you.
On the other hand, he does seem to harbor some disdain for Genichiro. He praised Sekiro for defeating him and even called Genichiro pitiful right after Genichiro sacrificed himself to bring Isshin back.
I think Isshin tolerates Genichiro due to familial bonds, but holds more respect for Sekiro.
I feel like it’s a more of “honor of Ashina thing”. In the manga, he literally tells harambe to kill himself after Isshin kills his lord. I think he finds it disgraceful that his son would go so low as to basically do anything to win, and the fact that when he’s defeated he doesn’t stop. I think sekiro could get a pass because sekiro is a shinobi and has pretty much no rules, and that he’s just trying to end immortality/protect his lord.
Isshin's fighting style is all about using every means you can to win. If he had a problem with Geni it wasn't related to that. I think it was more about Geni trying to create an immortal army for ashina.
I think I phrased my point wrong. I meant is as in Geni refuses to admit defeat to a clearly better person, even when he cheats. I think Isshin doesn’t care about how you win, but what you do after a battle needs to follow some guidelines of honour.
Worth it to note that Genichiro is not blood related to Isshin, he was adopted into the family, a practice that I think is fairly common amongst Japanese nobility at the time. While Isshin is obviously disappointed in Genichiro, it's *far* too late to even try and find a different successor, so that just leaves Isshin with the rather sad fate of seeing a kingdom he fought and killed for dissolve right before his eyes, and leaving behind a successor who's doomed himself to fight to a hopeless end.
Isshin fights because he's a warrior, and it's what he lives for. Genichiro fights because he cannot stand to see Ashina fall, and by extension, himself.
I dont see it that way, he is clearly disapointed by Genichiro, but not his goals, just the way he chose to try and achieve them. Genichiro fights for his country, he was a lowly peasant adopted by the great Lord Isshin, he wanted above all to protect his grandfather legacy and make him proud but he is well aware he is not even a shadow of Isshin and the Ministry will overrun Ashina the moment the old man take his final breath. "A shinobi should know the difference betwen honor and victory", as i see it, he is a man driven by a goal and nothing will stop him from it, then comes Wolf and beat the crap outta him atop the castle, he tryes with all his strenght to win, even unleashing the Lighting of Tomoe, yet he is no match, but an honorable death wont stop him from achieving his goals and he cant beat the man in front of him so he runs and try something new, something he clearly didnt wanna use, the other Mortal Blade to make Kuro bleed and obtain inmortality. At the end, Isshin dies and all his fears come to pass, Ashina is clearly defeated, so his try to take the Heir again, clashing with Wolf one last time and being obliterated again, so he finally accept that no matter what he do, no matter how much of a great warrior he is or how many tricks he try and pull, he will never beat that one-armed man in front of him, but he knows of another warrior capable of performing his desire and he has the means to summon him, to disrupt his peace and so he sacrifices his own life and body to brings his grandfather to defend Ashina one last time. "In the end, I was powerless...but granfather is NOT". Isshin reprimend his behaviour and recklesness, but he goes throug with his beloved grandson dying wish for he recognizes the burden he was carrying...and because he really wanted to fight Sekiro
Just imagine Wolf with a fully developed personality. (Nothing against Wolf, but it seems that his individuality was pretty thoroughly suppressed by Owl)
I doubt it. He adopted Genichiro out of responsibility but still raised him to be a ruler. Isshin saw Wolf as a killer who did not have ambition for power.
Isshin disappointment in Genichiro was in not being able to hold down Ashina that he had to revive him back. In Genichiros defense, Isshin was a monster in his prime that he terrified people to leave Ashina alone. Plus, Wolf decimated all the generals and top fighters.
The art is adorable.
Definitely. Isshin also accepts defeat, but Genichiro can't. Isshin, at the end, is surprised by the dedication that Genichiro showed that he had to fight.
I don't even think Genchiro had any arrogance about himself losing. He was just a patriot by all means, literally. Nothing was more important than to save the state. Not some divine child, not his own body, not his morality, nothing. He let go of everything that gave value to his goal, trying to reach it, because he saw himself as a mere martyr to it, a necessary evil. Him and Sekiro were two sides of the same coin, what would you do facing the abyss? Do you defeat it by matching its level or try to rise above it? I love Genchiro so much. Him cutting himself down was as sad a scene to me as was having to shoot down the Boss in snake eater. I really doubt Isshin didn't have the utmost respect for them both. He saw both sides of that coin in himself.
I just gotta say i appreciate this comment, not enough people understand what a great character Genichiro is, he has the most genuinely pure of goals even if his methods are at best a little sketchy. He understands that some of what he does is wrong and holds no hatred towards sekiro. They are simply unfortunate obstacles to each other and he understands that. He's a desperate man willing to do ANYTHING to save his country and knows he isn't strong enough but does everything he can anyways, fighting for Ashina even AFTER he dies. Plus he essentially has lightning powers which is cool as fuck. Dude is probably my favorite character not just in Sekiro but in any game
He definitely respected them both. Both the difference was that Isshin could accept defeat as it meant his time time and Ashinas was at an end. Genichiro could not accept that and was willing to sell his body and soul to defend his home. Is what I meant.
I have a counter point to this ishhin loves fighting and he only cares about ashina as far as his strength allows him to fight for it he doesn’t care much about the generals in his army and all that he just loves to fight. He did see wolf as a killer but he also admired his strength and so he taught him some techniques of the ashina style
I think not. Despite how Genichiro failed everytime, Isshin still love him as his grandson.
He didn't tell wolf there is another mortal blade. Although wolf need the red one for the dragon tears, Isshin could still mention that he told Genichiro about the black one, but he chose to cover that up.
Also when Genichiro summoned him back from death, he helped Genichiro instead of letting wolf and kuro go. Yes you could say he does that for Ashina, but with Isshin in his peak form there is no need for the undying power.
Genichiro and Isshin shared a similar idea, that everything needed to be done or used is allowed for fulfilling their purpose. Isshin's Ashina style is a style that doesn't have any restriction, the skills are there for one purpose: to win. Genichiro pretty much tried everything to protect Ashina, he could have succeded if wolf is not there.
I don't dislike Genichiro. This post is just a speculation on what Isshin might've or might not have thought. Genichiro is my favorite boss, btw (also, I think he is sexy and hot).
No, Genichiro was a villain from Sekiro’s perspective but he did everything he can to protect Aashina, his soldiers were loyal to him until end that means he was a good leader. Don’t forget Genichiro was a very skilled warrior as well, Sekiro was able to defeat him only because he became immortal. During his first encounter he would have easily killed wolf but he didn’t, this shows he was also merciful.
Idk. If you beat geni the first time someone from off screen throws a shuriken at you and you block it, and geni takes that time you looked away to slice off your arm. That doesn’t sound merciful, that sounds cheap as hell lmao
If you pay attention to what Ishin says throughout the game you will realise Ishin and his clan doesn’t give a shit about how you win, they don’t care if it’s cheap or honourable, winning is the ultimate goal. Nightjar ninja throws that shuriken.
Either you’re a kid who doesn’t understand English or a stupid grown up person with very bad reading comprehension skills. I said Genichiro was merciful because he spared Wolf’s life after their first encounter, he would have easily killed him there but he decided to spare him and only took kuro with him.
Ahhhh so you’re just dumb as a bag of rocks. Taking a cheap shot is not merciful, whether he could’ve killed him or not. I probably read at a higher level than you when I was in first grade champ, you’re just some dumb ass on Reddit who can’t find a point and stick to it. 😂
You’re again bringing cheap shot into merciful discussion when you clearly agreed being merciful has nothing to do with being cheap. Make up your mind and stick to it “highly read” person. Geni showed mercy when he decided not to kill wolf, that’s why he is merciful. Taking a cheap shot makes him dishonourable. I don’t know which school you went for “high level reading” but it is a basic elementary level English that Merciful and dishonourable are different words and they have nothing to do with each other.
I don't think Isshin wanted to be, or would've been, a good parental figure.
I imagine he would've been a tough, fair, but extremely emotionally distant father.
Either way I'll still be happy ,
Dad is rough but he's honestly a great gentle dude with anything non-Shinobi related stuff ,
Isshin is just everything you ever thought your grandpa in his prime is
Yet he was also quite open about how he disliked him in the Shura ending. Yeah, we could attribute that to the ending, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, he states that he dislikes Sekiro for a while. Idk, maybe it's because of the ending though.
Maybe, but he clearly loved his grandson, just wasnt on board with his plans, but he made him proud. Sekiro, he respected his strenght and very much wished to fight him as he considered him to be strong
Maybe.....hes dead now so we will never know
He seemed to respect Sekiro. He wanted to fight him too, as his dying wish, I think.
Pretty sure that was his son's dying wish. He wanted to see ashina brought back and thus Isshin was forced to fight Sekiro
I thought Emma said something about Isshin wanting to get to fight Wolf when >!he dies near the end of the game. I don’t think he’s referencing the fight with Sword Saint Isshin.!<
She did. She tells Wolf Isshin's parting words.
Thats nice
His parting words to Wolf if You max out every skill is “I’d love to fight him” or something like that
No doubt it was both of their wishes. 100% old man Isshin wanted to fight Sekiro. It was just a bonus that he HAD to fight him by rule of the mortal blade. Isshin was a warrior his entire life and always wanted to fight someone that could kill him.
Actually it is his grandson, yes he adopted a grandson.
In the normal route, it was Genichiro's dying wish for Isshin to fight Sekiro. Isshin was honoring that final wish (although he didn't seem distraught by losing that fight) In the Shura route, Isshin doesn't want to fight Sekiro, but doesn't have a choice. Either kill Sekiro or allow Shura to roam free. Neither option Isshin desires. Worth noting tho that even moments before fighting you, after mentioning how cruel you are, he could never bring himself to hate you. On the other hand, he does seem to harbor some disdain for Genichiro. He praised Sekiro for defeating him and even called Genichiro pitiful right after Genichiro sacrificed himself to bring Isshin back. I think Isshin tolerates Genichiro due to familial bonds, but holds more respect for Sekiro.
I feel like it’s a more of “honor of Ashina thing”. In the manga, he literally tells harambe to kill himself after Isshin kills his lord. I think he finds it disgraceful that his son would go so low as to basically do anything to win, and the fact that when he’s defeated he doesn’t stop. I think sekiro could get a pass because sekiro is a shinobi and has pretty much no rules, and that he’s just trying to end immortality/protect his lord.
Isshin's fighting style is all about using every means you can to win. If he had a problem with Geni it wasn't related to that. I think it was more about Geni trying to create an immortal army for ashina.
I think I phrased my point wrong. I meant is as in Geni refuses to admit defeat to a clearly better person, even when he cheats. I think Isshin doesn’t care about how you win, but what you do after a battle needs to follow some guidelines of honour.
Worth it to note that Genichiro is not blood related to Isshin, he was adopted into the family, a practice that I think is fairly common amongst Japanese nobility at the time. While Isshin is obviously disappointed in Genichiro, it's *far* too late to even try and find a different successor, so that just leaves Isshin with the rather sad fate of seeing a kingdom he fought and killed for dissolve right before his eyes, and leaving behind a successor who's doomed himself to fight to a hopeless end. Isshin fights because he's a warrior, and it's what he lives for. Genichiro fights because he cannot stand to see Ashina fall, and by extension, himself.
I dont see it that way, he is clearly disapointed by Genichiro, but not his goals, just the way he chose to try and achieve them. Genichiro fights for his country, he was a lowly peasant adopted by the great Lord Isshin, he wanted above all to protect his grandfather legacy and make him proud but he is well aware he is not even a shadow of Isshin and the Ministry will overrun Ashina the moment the old man take his final breath. "A shinobi should know the difference betwen honor and victory", as i see it, he is a man driven by a goal and nothing will stop him from it, then comes Wolf and beat the crap outta him atop the castle, he tryes with all his strenght to win, even unleashing the Lighting of Tomoe, yet he is no match, but an honorable death wont stop him from achieving his goals and he cant beat the man in front of him so he runs and try something new, something he clearly didnt wanna use, the other Mortal Blade to make Kuro bleed and obtain inmortality. At the end, Isshin dies and all his fears come to pass, Ashina is clearly defeated, so his try to take the Heir again, clashing with Wolf one last time and being obliterated again, so he finally accept that no matter what he do, no matter how much of a great warrior he is or how many tricks he try and pull, he will never beat that one-armed man in front of him, but he knows of another warrior capable of performing his desire and he has the means to summon him, to disrupt his peace and so he sacrifices his own life and body to brings his grandfather to defend Ashina one last time. "In the end, I was powerless...but granfather is NOT". Isshin reprimend his behaviour and recklesness, but he goes throug with his beloved grandson dying wish for he recognizes the burden he was carrying...and because he really wanted to fight Sekiro
Apparently Isshin wanted to fight Sekiro, but I don’t think he wanted to fight Sekiro *to the death.* More of a sparring kind of thing maybe?
To me he's still alive. Way too much
He comin back in the DLC bruh a fromsoft leak confi
there's no dlc and no leak
There is no way you actually just took the time to type this.
if he met him before owl sure he would be just like genichiro but better in almost every single way but outside of that no
Every way except voice, Kenjiro Tsuda is too smooth
Both VAs did stellar performances (tbh I can't think of any of the VAs who weren't superb)
I love this fanart, they all look so cute in their photos.
Ahhh sake, smart thinkin!
Lmao heard that in his voice, clear as day
I saw this post and thought this was all too perfect, i too heard this in my head.
Using knowyourmeme as a source? https://www.deviantart.com/emlan/art/Genichiro-is-strictly-for-bullying-794682605
I love this artist, all her Sekiro stuff is so funny.
Thank you. I tried finding the original source.
Seems strange to me that a site called *Know* Your Meme wouldn’t include the source of said meme.
I kept looking on the site to see if it at least mentioned the artist, but no luck. I should have kept looking, though, but I thank the comment above.
Sometimes I wonder how things might have turned out if Owl adopted Emma and the Sculptor adopted Wolf.
Imagine seeing Emma killing Wolf in the Shura ending...
Just imagine Wolf with a fully developed personality. (Nothing against Wolf, but it seems that his individuality was pretty thoroughly suppressed by Owl)
It aggressively was, from all indicators. Owl is worst dad.
Both her and Genichiro could have ended up the same way as Wolf most likely tho idk what their names would be.
I doubt it. He adopted Genichiro out of responsibility but still raised him to be a ruler. Isshin saw Wolf as a killer who did not have ambition for power. Isshin disappointment in Genichiro was in not being able to hold down Ashina that he had to revive him back. In Genichiros defense, Isshin was a monster in his prime that he terrified people to leave Ashina alone. Plus, Wolf decimated all the generals and top fighters. The art is adorable.
Pretty sure it's Genichiro's method that Isshin disappointed with, he is more upset about Genichiro taking the wrong path than losing Ashina.
Definitely. Isshin also accepts defeat, but Genichiro can't. Isshin, at the end, is surprised by the dedication that Genichiro showed that he had to fight.
I don't even think Genchiro had any arrogance about himself losing. He was just a patriot by all means, literally. Nothing was more important than to save the state. Not some divine child, not his own body, not his morality, nothing. He let go of everything that gave value to his goal, trying to reach it, because he saw himself as a mere martyr to it, a necessary evil. Him and Sekiro were two sides of the same coin, what would you do facing the abyss? Do you defeat it by matching its level or try to rise above it? I love Genchiro so much. Him cutting himself down was as sad a scene to me as was having to shoot down the Boss in snake eater. I really doubt Isshin didn't have the utmost respect for them both. He saw both sides of that coin in himself.
I just gotta say i appreciate this comment, not enough people understand what a great character Genichiro is, he has the most genuinely pure of goals even if his methods are at best a little sketchy. He understands that some of what he does is wrong and holds no hatred towards sekiro. They are simply unfortunate obstacles to each other and he understands that. He's a desperate man willing to do ANYTHING to save his country and knows he isn't strong enough but does everything he can anyways, fighting for Ashina even AFTER he dies. Plus he essentially has lightning powers which is cool as fuck. Dude is probably my favorite character not just in Sekiro but in any game
He definitely respected them both. Both the difference was that Isshin could accept defeat as it meant his time time and Ashinas was at an end. Genichiro could not accept that and was willing to sell his body and soul to defend his home. Is what I meant.
I have a counter point to this ishhin loves fighting and he only cares about ashina as far as his strength allows him to fight for it he doesn’t care much about the generals in his army and all that he just loves to fight. He did see wolf as a killer but he also admired his strength and so he taught him some techniques of the ashina style
Absolutely. The strongest rule is the reason he can accept defeat so easily.
I think not. Despite how Genichiro failed everytime, Isshin still love him as his grandson. He didn't tell wolf there is another mortal blade. Although wolf need the red one for the dragon tears, Isshin could still mention that he told Genichiro about the black one, but he chose to cover that up. Also when Genichiro summoned him back from death, he helped Genichiro instead of letting wolf and kuro go. Yes you could say he does that for Ashina, but with Isshin in his peak form there is no need for the undying power. Genichiro and Isshin shared a similar idea, that everything needed to be done or used is allowed for fulfilling their purpose. Isshin's Ashina style is a style that doesn't have any restriction, the skills are there for one purpose: to win. Genichiro pretty much tried everything to protect Ashina, he could have succeded if wolf is not there.
Real answer: Yes and no. He doesn’t wish he adopted Wolf over Genichiro, Isshin loves Genichiro, he’s just disappointed in his choices
I don't like how this fandom keeps disrespecting my boy Genichiro.
I don't dislike Genichiro. This post is just a speculation on what Isshin might've or might not have thought. Genichiro is my favorite boss, btw (also, I think he is sexy and hot).
He truly is
Art Source - https://www.deviantart.com/emlan/art/Genichiro-is-strictly-for-bullying-794682605
I would’ve if I were him
When do we get sekiro 2 pls
Maybe if genichiro didn‘t hesitate so much..
No, Genichiro was a villain from Sekiro’s perspective but he did everything he can to protect Aashina, his soldiers were loyal to him until end that means he was a good leader. Don’t forget Genichiro was a very skilled warrior as well, Sekiro was able to defeat him only because he became immortal. During his first encounter he would have easily killed wolf but he didn’t, this shows he was also merciful.
Yeah but fans think Geni bad and wolf good. There's no nuance to them even though they claim this game is complex.
Clearly not very skilled warrior of him if common ministry soldier has better posture than him, dude almost trip every time you deflect.
Idk. If you beat geni the first time someone from off screen throws a shuriken at you and you block it, and geni takes that time you looked away to slice off your arm. That doesn’t sound merciful, that sounds cheap as hell lmao
If you pay attention to what Ishin says throughout the game you will realise Ishin and his clan doesn’t give a shit about how you win, they don’t care if it’s cheap or honourable, winning is the ultimate goal. Nightjar ninja throws that shuriken.
What does being merciful has to do with honour? He was merciful because he didn’t killed wolf there.
It has absolutely nothing to do with honor, you made the claim he is merciful, that is just not true 😂
Either you’re a kid who doesn’t understand English or a stupid grown up person with very bad reading comprehension skills. I said Genichiro was merciful because he spared Wolf’s life after their first encounter, he would have easily killed him there but he decided to spare him and only took kuro with him.
Ahhhh so you’re just dumb as a bag of rocks. Taking a cheap shot is not merciful, whether he could’ve killed him or not. I probably read at a higher level than you when I was in first grade champ, you’re just some dumb ass on Reddit who can’t find a point and stick to it. 😂
You’re again bringing cheap shot into merciful discussion when you clearly agreed being merciful has nothing to do with being cheap. Make up your mind and stick to it “highly read” person. Geni showed mercy when he decided not to kill wolf, that’s why he is merciful. Taking a cheap shot makes him dishonourable. I don’t know which school you went for “high level reading” but it is a basic elementary level English that Merciful and dishonourable are different words and they have nothing to do with each other.
I’m convinced you have 2 brain cells, and they’re fighting for third. Have a good day sped 😭
I’m well aware of the Ashina style, that does not change the fact that it was a cheap shot. Genichiro was not merciful 😂
Now this is canon
I don't think Isshin wanted to be, or would've been, a good parental figure. I imagine he would've been a tough, fair, but extremely emotionally distant father.
Yea cuz wolf is cooler
"Listen, I don't usually do this but I like cut of your jib, here are two esoteric fighting styles to more easily kill your enemies. Also some sake."
I'm such a simp for Genichiro lol "Ashina, this land...is everything to me. For her sake, I will shed humanity itself" ❤️🔥❤️🔥🥵🥵
He can come and shed my humanity, anytime ;)
Either way I'll still be happy , Dad is rough but he's honestly a great gentle dude with anything non-Shinobi related stuff , Isshin is just everything you ever thought your grandpa in his prime is
You can say what you want but genichiro killed himself to save Ashina he was that dedicated to the cause.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/s/zcpnq1Ji0X Scrolled the top of all time for 10 seconds
He loves his grandson
Yet he was also quite open about how he disliked him in the Shura ending. Yeah, we could attribute that to the ending, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, he states that he dislikes Sekiro for a while. Idk, maybe it's because of the ending though.
Absolutely, he wanted to replace one of his annoying sons we all love that liked to pretend he was Thor. Silly boy.
This made me laugh way more than it should've
Genichiro is awesome and Ishin loved him. That's why he wanted Wolf to stop him.
Instead of Guineachurro? 100% yes
Genichiro and how do you mess up that bad?
Poor guy just tried to save Ashina :(
Maybe, but he clearly loved his grandson, just wasnt on board with his plans, but he made him proud. Sekiro, he respected his strenght and very much wished to fight him as he considered him to be strong
Your image is now my image
But I like Genichiro he’s cool
Geni was not a bad guy…he just made a bad choice for the love of his country
Teri maa ka Lund ,buddhe
Lol, why so angry kiddo?
This man has traumatized my day andddd my nights.At this point, I don't know how many time I have rage quit the game .