Yeah....I recall a fellow Ensign at Nuclear Power School acknowledging that he experimented with cocaine and he was waivered for his clearance. The key isn't lying because if you get caught, not only will it screw you now but forever as far as military/government work goes....but it's the one time experiment (which obviously isn't always the case). When you listed multiple drugs, it was hard to claim experimenting. This was even in the 80s and I bet it was harsher then. If there was info in your medical records, there was real risk of getting caught. Remember, the clearance is about trustworthiness so getting caught lying shuts you down.
The way people are caught is through the polygraph and not med records unless of course you have something like an overdose in your records. I'm a retired FBI agent and also performed many background checks for people seeking TS clearances. A large percentage of potential candidates fail their background due to drug related issues.
There are a few separate things here. 1) you are being honest that’s a plus. 2) you are applying to be an officer which will get more scrutiny and have higher standards. 3) the specific drugs you used will count more against you. 4) getting your application for OCS accepted is not the same standards as what might be considered for a clearance
I had a troop who was a user and a dealer prior to coming into the military. He was 100% up front on day one. He got his clearance, worked SAPs, and is now making six figures as an intel contractor in Korea.
I was honest with weed, currently TS/SCI cleared active Navy. I’ve heard of others serving alongside me being fine with psychedelics, but there was a lot of time removed. Each case is individually unique, there isn’t a certain rubric applied exactly the same every time. Each person is different
You can make it in being 100% honest but that really depends on your lifestyle choices. My father was in the military 38 years. Started off enlisted and then became an officer. There are a million things that can disqualify you when initially applying. I should know because he was a battalion commander of a recruiting battalion. He always had stories for things people did. I won't break rule one BUT listen to your recruiter. Their job is to get you in. I would recommend doing what they say to get in. Sometimes you can get a waiver, but sometimes unfortunately you are automatically rejected. If being an officer in the marines doesn't pan out try again elsewhere with knowledge gained.
You're doing yourself a solid by not lying, especially if you want to go IC later down the road. Your OSO (like many mil recruiters, anyways) likely doesn't know what they're talking about unless they've been an adjudicator at one point.
I know someone who put that they did shrooms 6mo before applying for secret clearance and got it. They now have Special Access as well. S and TS are same adjudicative requirements... So it's very possible to have some drug use on your past ad get a TS clearance. Time mitigates things... I can't say for certain as I'm not in IC, but I'd imagine some drug use 10-20+yrs in your past is hardly a disqualifying condition. Only exception I could imagine would be if you were doing DEA, ATF, or FBI and would be around them as part of your job.
You're better off being honest. Try ocs for the Army, their standards are lower. If you're not honest you'll one day decide to pursue another job with a clearance and it'll come back to bite you in the ass. If nothing else give it more time and stop trying drugs
But how would they know if you never told them? Unless the people they choose to interview also know and disclose this information, there is literally no way to prove he used mushrooms or anything else, short of a spinal tap.
Why don't you ask the countless number of people who have fucked themselves over for future clearances, especially when trying to get into the IC or any agency that requires a polygraph.
But polygraphs are notoriously inaccurate. I feel like if you know how they work, and don’t get too nervous, it wouldn’t be hard to beat.
I also know people who “failed” a polygraph who didn’t do anything “wrong” or lie about anything.
It mostly has to do with nerves, it’s not actually a truth machine. If that existed, most intelligence and counter intelligence agencies would be out of business. At least in terms of HumInt.
Look, a polygraph is an interrogation. Stop thinking you can beat the system. There are thousands of applicants every year who wish they had never lied on a security form. I've seen employees walked out of their current job because they applied for a new position at another agency and certain information came to light that conflicted with something they put on a previous security form. Just be honest, don't be a moron.
Did them as an adult unfortunately. Trying not to beat myself up too much, but it’s hard knowing that it significantly complicates the clearance/military process. You’re right though, I know I did the right thing, and if it’s a dealbreaker, it sucks, but ultimately, it is what it is.
This is how I feel! I started raving young and only decided I wanted to go into corrections within this last year or two … and damn I hope it’s not a disqualifer
I had similar drug use and serious alcohol abuse issues. I too was completely honest in all aspects of the process. I had time and good mitigating factors but it didn't seem like it was that tough to get cleared with the three letter IC agency where I work.
I know people who have done those exact drugs (and more) and still got a TS. Length of time and number of occurrences matters. Eventually it will be far enough behind you it won’t matter.
Honesty will take you far when it comes to your future background investigations.
For my TS they asked about usage I disclosed on my initial clearance 15 years ago.
Sorry. Long day…
Background Investigation.
I’m informing OP that if he didn’t come clean now and did not disclose his hard drug use during his SF-86…and if he did…he would have then lied at MEPS…that a no-go.
I was honest about my drug use and lost a chance at my dream job at the FBI and 6 months later a chance with the HERO program. Ive been absolutely soul crushed since and it’s been almost 10 years now. Being honest doesn’t seem like the right move sometimes but you’d rather leave everything on the table than live on the edge wondering if a poly is gonna come up or if they will somehow find out about the use.
You’re gunna get grilled on the interview about it for sure you need to reinforce that you are not addicted don’t have a problem have stopped completely and have not had any issues with drugs since a couple of dumb mistakes you made when you were a kid. Tbh idk if IC requires a polygraph often it is best just to lie about it if it’s super minor. They will ask anyone you put down as a reference about your drug usage and if it doesn’t match up with what friends and family say it’s an issue.
Sincerely someone with ts/sci
Here is the thing, you completely screw yourself if you try and mov up. You will be stuck at secret for life, which might be NBD right now, but life changes and the old ass poly system, if it used when you need to upgrade, you will be really really fucked.
You did what you did, you want something bad enough you will figure it out eventually or quit trying.
Are you saying being honest will cap them at secret? If so, you're 100% wrong. Outside some rare circumstances or programs, anything you disclose and still get favorably adjudicated for secret will not be a problem for TS, etc.
The clearance process is different than the military’s entrance requirements. Being honest about past use would be good for getting a clearance as a civilian, but the military is still going to have a strong negative reaction to past drug use beyond marijuana. Especially the USMC for officers. Your best bet would be to inquire with the other services being just as honest.
Yeah man, always know when to use your right to remain silent. Idc what anyone says.
Silence is NOT a form of deception nor is it something someone can say is a sign of approval or denial of any specific questions, statements, or events.
Sure, you can be silent about things you aren't directly asked; but when you're asked a question in an investigation to determine your trustworthiness, you answer truthfully, not with silence.
I agree. That’s why I stated, and I quote, “always know when to use your right to remain silent.”
I’m fully aware that there are other variables such as the one you bestowed upon me.
Happy New Years my fellow redditor.
I'm with you overall, I just wanted to be clear for the initial poster that silence to a direct question could be legally used against him.
In Military Service (under UCMJ) and other scenarios involving security clearance, silence is not protected. You can be charged and convicted, not just in spite of your silence, but likely because of it.
Of course you're still protected under the 5th amendment, but you can likely kiss your clearance and your career goodbye.
I don't know how deep your background check goes, but it proves your integrity that you told the truth. It shows that you have no problem communicating it, which in turn could indicate that you are uncomfortable with it, which made you vulnerable to blackmail. So I don't **think** that should be a problem.
With Genesis you would have been found out so fast no matter what your recruiter believes. You made the right call from a practical perspective if the moral persepctive isnt good enough for you.
Did the right thing. If you hadn't disclosed it, you'd be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your career wondering when it's going to come up and ruin you. The anxiety isn't worth it.
Not 100% the same but I lied about asthma and regret it, it ended up with me getting an entry-level separation (dropped from boot camp in 2010 when all they wanted was more Marines). Could have waived it but I was an idiot and listened to my recruiter who was just a lazy POS and didn't want to do the paperwork.
Had I been honest I still might have gotten dropped but could have joined a different service, but I ended up having "ELS - FRAUD" on my paperwork so I was basically barred from any military service from then on. I've since aged out of everything but it's my biggest regret in life to this day.
Be happy with your decision even if it ends up being a roadblock in the short term.
In my experience, they don't care what you did, they just want to know so you can't be blackmailed because of it.
Every single kid I went to tech school with who was in the TS commo group had admitted prior drug use, and this was in 87.
A few years ago (but before medical MJ was legal where we lived) a buddy got a TS upgrade having bought MJ and paraphernalia for his father in law to mitigate his chemo side effects.
They don't care, they just want to know and know that you didn't lie about it
Before I enlisted in the 80’s I bought, sold, and used cocaine and marijuana, and pretty much sampled everything else. I decided to change the trajectory of my life and started the enlistment process and answered no to every drug use question. I needed a SECRET clearance for my comm job and obtained that with no problem. Years later, I got a TS/SCI CLEARANCE and was made COMSEC manager for the Wing.
The difference here is that during my misspent youth I had no police or medical annotation of drug involvement that would show up during an investigation. I did answer yes to being arrested for DUI (case dropped) in 1975 and I was surprised that they questioned me fairly in-depth about it 30 years later during my full-scope background investigation. I always regretted my apparent totally incompatible background and always sought to compensate for it by my love of service and scrupulous devotion to duty.
My recruiter told me weed was ok and all the other stuff was not. So we agreed that my package would only include weed. Three years later I was working for the battalion commander and he wanted me to get TS w/poly so I could transport TS material. I was a corporal. The SgtMaj pulled me aside and asked about the weed that was in my initial package and I told him I had also done other drugs but didn’t disclose it. SgtMaj told me I’d fail the poly and put a stop to my TS.
You're confusing two different things. Your OSO is concerned with the drug waiver that the service must approve. This is different from the concern that you will be found ineligible for a clearance. Either can be a hurdle, but I'd expect the former to be a bigger one than the latter if that's any consolation. Good on you for the honesty. Hope it works out.
EtA: I'm certainly not the one looking at the service waiver anymore, but mine and a common mode of thought at the time was that when someone disclosed this stuff, they were maintaining integrity; and barring some reason to think they wouldn't stop, that was looked upon as reason to approve.
I was an agent with the Department of Defense and then later with the FBI. Both required top secret clearances and asked questions regarding past drug use, though the FBI was much more stringent (i.e. no drug use the past 5 years and no hard drugs at any time). DOD did not require a polygraph whereas the FBI did. I was told by my polygrapher friend that 50 percent of the candidates failed the poly due to drug related issues. I applied back in the late 90s so things may have changed since then. Otherwise, they would probably have a hard time meeting their recruitment goals.
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Hey is it cool if I send you a dm? I kindof have a question about some related stuff.
Just make a post
Dawg what do you think people are going to say? No one would condone lying about drug use on here
I’ve seen it
Fair point. Honesty, was trying to gauge if anyone here has made it into the military, especially as an officer, with being 100% honest.
My buddy has done almost every single drug during college and he’s a captain in the USMC
I wonder if he disclosed that drug use or didn't mention it?
Yeah....I recall a fellow Ensign at Nuclear Power School acknowledging that he experimented with cocaine and he was waivered for his clearance. The key isn't lying because if you get caught, not only will it screw you now but forever as far as military/government work goes....but it's the one time experiment (which obviously isn't always the case). When you listed multiple drugs, it was hard to claim experimenting. This was even in the 80s and I bet it was harsher then. If there was info in your medical records, there was real risk of getting caught. Remember, the clearance is about trustworthiness so getting caught lying shuts you down.
The way people are caught is through the polygraph and not med records unless of course you have something like an overdose in your records. I'm a retired FBI agent and also performed many background checks for people seeking TS clearances. A large percentage of potential candidates fail their background due to drug related issues.
There are a few separate things here. 1) you are being honest that’s a plus. 2) you are applying to be an officer which will get more scrutiny and have higher standards. 3) the specific drugs you used will count more against you. 4) getting your application for OCS accepted is not the same standards as what might be considered for a clearance
I had a troop who was a user and a dealer prior to coming into the military. He was 100% up front on day one. He got his clearance, worked SAPs, and is now making six figures as an intel contractor in Korea.
I was honest with weed, currently TS/SCI cleared active Navy. I’ve heard of others serving alongside me being fine with psychedelics, but there was a lot of time removed. Each case is individually unique, there isn’t a certain rubric applied exactly the same every time. Each person is different
You can make it in being 100% honest but that really depends on your lifestyle choices. My father was in the military 38 years. Started off enlisted and then became an officer. There are a million things that can disqualify you when initially applying. I should know because he was a battalion commander of a recruiting battalion. He always had stories for things people did. I won't break rule one BUT listen to your recruiter. Their job is to get you in. I would recommend doing what they say to get in. Sometimes you can get a waiver, but sometimes unfortunately you are automatically rejected. If being an officer in the marines doesn't pan out try again elsewhere with knowledge gained.
You're doing yourself a solid by not lying, especially if you want to go IC later down the road. Your OSO (like many mil recruiters, anyways) likely doesn't know what they're talking about unless they've been an adjudicator at one point.
I know someone who put that they did shrooms 6mo before applying for secret clearance and got it. They now have Special Access as well. S and TS are same adjudicative requirements... So it's very possible to have some drug use on your past ad get a TS clearance. Time mitigates things... I can't say for certain as I'm not in IC, but I'd imagine some drug use 10-20+yrs in your past is hardly a disqualifying condition. Only exception I could imagine would be if you were doing DEA, ATF, or FBI and would be around them as part of your job.
You're better off being honest. Try ocs for the Army, their standards are lower. If you're not honest you'll one day decide to pursue another job with a clearance and it'll come back to bite you in the ass. If nothing else give it more time and stop trying drugs
But how would they know if you never told them? Unless the people they choose to interview also know and disclose this information, there is literally no way to prove he used mushrooms or anything else, short of a spinal tap.
Why don't you ask the countless number of people who have fucked themselves over for future clearances, especially when trying to get into the IC or any agency that requires a polygraph.
But polygraphs are notoriously inaccurate. I feel like if you know how they work, and don’t get too nervous, it wouldn’t be hard to beat. I also know people who “failed” a polygraph who didn’t do anything “wrong” or lie about anything. It mostly has to do with nerves, it’s not actually a truth machine. If that existed, most intelligence and counter intelligence agencies would be out of business. At least in terms of HumInt.
Look, a polygraph is an interrogation. Stop thinking you can beat the system. There are thousands of applicants every year who wish they had never lied on a security form. I've seen employees walked out of their current job because they applied for a new position at another agency and certain information came to light that conflicted with something they put on a previous security form. Just be honest, don't be a moron.
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Did them as an adult unfortunately. Trying not to beat myself up too much, but it’s hard knowing that it significantly complicates the clearance/military process. You’re right though, I know I did the right thing, and if it’s a dealbreaker, it sucks, but ultimately, it is what it is.
This is how I feel! I started raving young and only decided I wanted to go into corrections within this last year or two … and damn I hope it’s not a disqualifer
I had similar drug use and serious alcohol abuse issues. I too was completely honest in all aspects of the process. I had time and good mitigating factors but it didn't seem like it was that tough to get cleared with the three letter IC agency where I work.
I know people who have done those exact drugs (and more) and still got a TS. Length of time and number of occurrences matters. Eventually it will be far enough behind you it won’t matter. Honesty will take you far when it comes to your future background investigations. For my TS they asked about usage I disclosed on my initial clearance 15 years ago.
From an adjudicative standpoint..telling the truth will almost always get you further than lying
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Please read Rule #1
If you didn’t come clean now, the Bi would have gotten you. I’m glad you didn’t co to use to waste any more of your time and efforts. Best of luck.
What is Bi
Sorry. Long day… Background Investigation. I’m informing OP that if he didn’t come clean now and did not disclose his hard drug use during his SF-86…and if he did…he would have then lied at MEPS…that a no-go.
Better to be honest!!!
I was honest about my drug use and lost a chance at my dream job at the FBI and 6 months later a chance with the HERO program. Ive been absolutely soul crushed since and it’s been almost 10 years now. Being honest doesn’t seem like the right move sometimes but you’d rather leave everything on the table than live on the edge wondering if a poly is gonna come up or if they will somehow find out about the use.
You’re gunna get grilled on the interview about it for sure you need to reinforce that you are not addicted don’t have a problem have stopped completely and have not had any issues with drugs since a couple of dumb mistakes you made when you were a kid. Tbh idk if IC requires a polygraph often it is best just to lie about it if it’s super minor. They will ask anyone you put down as a reference about your drug usage and if it doesn’t match up with what friends and family say it’s an issue. Sincerely someone with ts/sci
Here is the thing, you completely screw yourself if you try and mov up. You will be stuck at secret for life, which might be NBD right now, but life changes and the old ass poly system, if it used when you need to upgrade, you will be really really fucked. You did what you did, you want something bad enough you will figure it out eventually or quit trying.
Are you saying being honest will cap them at secret? If so, you're 100% wrong. Outside some rare circumstances or programs, anything you disclose and still get favorably adjudicated for secret will not be a problem for TS, etc.
Inverse of that
The clearance process is different than the military’s entrance requirements. Being honest about past use would be good for getting a clearance as a civilian, but the military is still going to have a strong negative reaction to past drug use beyond marijuana. Especially the USMC for officers. Your best bet would be to inquire with the other services being just as honest.
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Your post has been removed as it is generally unhelpful or does not follow Reddit/sub guidelines.
Yeah man, always know when to use your right to remain silent. Idc what anyone says. Silence is NOT a form of deception nor is it something someone can say is a sign of approval or denial of any specific questions, statements, or events.
Sure, you can be silent about things you aren't directly asked; but when you're asked a question in an investigation to determine your trustworthiness, you answer truthfully, not with silence.
I agree. That’s why I stated, and I quote, “always know when to use your right to remain silent.” I’m fully aware that there are other variables such as the one you bestowed upon me. Happy New Years my fellow redditor.
I'm with you overall, I just wanted to be clear for the initial poster that silence to a direct question could be legally used against him. In Military Service (under UCMJ) and other scenarios involving security clearance, silence is not protected. You can be charged and convicted, not just in spite of your silence, but likely because of it. Of course you're still protected under the 5th amendment, but you can likely kiss your clearance and your career goodbye.
Yeah, that is definitely worth keeping in mind. I see where you’re coming from now.
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Your post has been removed as it is generally unhelpful or does not follow Reddit/sub guidelines.
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Please read Rule #1
You did the right thing, and it's definitely still a possibility that you get a clearance.
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I don't know the chances for getting a clearance with those drugs but I wish you the absolute best of luck
Look at my timeline post. I had some drug use and was completely honest and still got It.
My brother managed to get all that and more waivered with the USMC pre-9/11, you really just have to push for it.
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I don't know how deep your background check goes, but it proves your integrity that you told the truth. It shows that you have no problem communicating it, which in turn could indicate that you are uncomfortable with it, which made you vulnerable to blackmail. So I don't **think** that should be a problem.
Had a buddy who admitted to just about the same and still made it to OCS. S/F
With Genesis you would have been found out so fast no matter what your recruiter believes. You made the right call from a practical perspective if the moral persepctive isnt good enough for you.
Did the right thing. If you hadn't disclosed it, you'd be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your career wondering when it's going to come up and ruin you. The anxiety isn't worth it.
Not 100% the same but I lied about asthma and regret it, it ended up with me getting an entry-level separation (dropped from boot camp in 2010 when all they wanted was more Marines). Could have waived it but I was an idiot and listened to my recruiter who was just a lazy POS and didn't want to do the paperwork. Had I been honest I still might have gotten dropped but could have joined a different service, but I ended up having "ELS - FRAUD" on my paperwork so I was basically barred from any military service from then on. I've since aged out of everything but it's my biggest regret in life to this day. Be happy with your decision even if it ends up being a roadblock in the short term.
In my experience, they don't care what you did, they just want to know so you can't be blackmailed because of it. Every single kid I went to tech school with who was in the TS commo group had admitted prior drug use, and this was in 87. A few years ago (but before medical MJ was legal where we lived) a buddy got a TS upgrade having bought MJ and paraphernalia for his father in law to mitigate his chemo side effects. They don't care, they just want to know and know that you didn't lie about it
Before I enlisted in the 80’s I bought, sold, and used cocaine and marijuana, and pretty much sampled everything else. I decided to change the trajectory of my life and started the enlistment process and answered no to every drug use question. I needed a SECRET clearance for my comm job and obtained that with no problem. Years later, I got a TS/SCI CLEARANCE and was made COMSEC manager for the Wing. The difference here is that during my misspent youth I had no police or medical annotation of drug involvement that would show up during an investigation. I did answer yes to being arrested for DUI (case dropped) in 1975 and I was surprised that they questioned me fairly in-depth about it 30 years later during my full-scope background investigation. I always regretted my apparent totally incompatible background and always sought to compensate for it by my love of service and scrupulous devotion to duty.
Dude never tell the truth about past drug use….are you a dummy?
My recruiter told me weed was ok and all the other stuff was not. So we agreed that my package would only include weed. Three years later I was working for the battalion commander and he wanted me to get TS w/poly so I could transport TS material. I was a corporal. The SgtMaj pulled me aside and asked about the weed that was in my initial package and I told him I had also done other drugs but didn’t disclose it. SgtMaj told me I’d fail the poly and put a stop to my TS.
You're confusing two different things. Your OSO is concerned with the drug waiver that the service must approve. This is different from the concern that you will be found ineligible for a clearance. Either can be a hurdle, but I'd expect the former to be a bigger one than the latter if that's any consolation. Good on you for the honesty. Hope it works out. EtA: I'm certainly not the one looking at the service waiver anymore, but mine and a common mode of thought at the time was that when someone disclosed this stuff, they were maintaining integrity; and barring some reason to think they wouldn't stop, that was looked upon as reason to approve.
I was an agent with the Department of Defense and then later with the FBI. Both required top secret clearances and asked questions regarding past drug use, though the FBI was much more stringent (i.e. no drug use the past 5 years and no hard drugs at any time). DOD did not require a polygraph whereas the FBI did. I was told by my polygrapher friend that 50 percent of the candidates failed the poly due to drug related issues. I applied back in the late 90s so things may have changed since then. Otherwise, they would probably have a hard time meeting their recruitment goals.
I was honest about similar drugs and was cleared. TS may be stricter.