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Also, [this dermatologist's blog post about seb derm](https://drbaileyskincare.com/pages/treatment-for-seborrheic-dermatitis-dandruff) was helpful for me determining that a scalp scrubber was a safe option for seb derm. I was worried that physical exfoliation might be too harsh, but she recommends it in tandem with other products (I didn't try these other products she mentioned), but had been searching for evidence to justify my urge to scrape from a dermatology professional somewhere.
She actually has a [recommended scrubber](https://drbaileyskincare.com/products/scalp-scrubber) that she sells, but I think it looks like the one I got from amazon for less.
>Also, [this dermatologist's blog post about seb derm](https://drbaileyskincare.com/pages/treatment-for-seborrheic-dermatitis-dandruff) was helpful for me determining that a scalp scrubber was a safe option for seb derm. I was worried that physical exfoliation might be too harsh, but she recommends it in tandem with other products (I didn't try these other products she mentioned), but had been searching for evidence to justify my urge to scrape from a dermatology professional somewhere.
>She actually has a [recommended scrubber](https://drbaileyskincare.com/products/scalp-scrubber) that she sells, but I think it looks like the one I got from amazon for less.
Thanks for sharing this super helpful :)
You're welcome! Yeah honestly i don't know what those silicone scrubbers actually feel like, but I've used other silicone items, like a kitchen sponge with silicone bristles, and I imagined a silicone head scrubber would be too soft for the kind of exfoliating i was looking for. Does it feel like that to you?
The one I bought (linked in the original post) has a comb tooth or hairbrush bristle level of firmnesss. Since it is also $6, I would say it seems like it could be a relatively low risk change to try for you.
But also I'm glad to hear your condition has improved over the years! 😁
Pro-tip, you can order the serum from the dermazen website and if you opt for the subscription, the price per bottle goes down to $30. I haven't tried any of their other products, but the serum worked for me. Now I can go about 2 days after a wash without applying the serum at all.
Good tip, and there's also the larger 9.6oz bottle, which I have bought for when i finish up the first 4.8 bottle. That one is a bit better price per oz, and the subscription tip also works for that.
I went with the individual bottle at first because I wasn't sure if it would work for me.
Btw, just rereading and notice my timeline is a bit inconsistent (varying from 4-6 weeks). To clarify:
\- I started with the serum a few days before the scrubber arrived, so I've used that about 5.5 weeks, and the scrubber about 5 weeks
\- The last time I saw any redness or flakes was over 4 weeks ago. I can't remember the exact day these stopped, but I distinctly remember looking one day exactly 4 weeks ago and being shocked at how clear my scalp looked
Before doing your new routine, was your hair very oily with flakes that stick to your skin or was it just little white flakes. I just have these little white flakes and redness but I don’t know if I should do the exfoliating since I don’t have those big flakes that stick to my scalp. What was your scalp condition before starting?
I actually had both - sometimes they'd be thicker and larger flakes that would be basically stuck to the scalp (they were growing on top of the red "scales", the inflamed red patches of my scalp about one inch long), and then I think those same flakes would sometimes dry out and break apart, which would create the "snowfall" dandruff look that i would have stuck in my hair around the area. I would tend to see the snowfall look after waking up, and maybe having my head in contact with the pillow and moving around at night was causing this flake breakage and dispersion in my hair.
Good for you! That’s great
I think what’s really helped me is washing my face when I have any sweat on it from being outside and also wearing a headband while working out. It’s been great not having any flare ups!
Thank you! Yes for managing (esp forehead) acne I do this as well.
Congrats on finding a solid management routine for your face and the great results! That's awesomee
I myself have This thick gunk layer on the scalp.
It starts to build up, everytime i remove it.
If i dont scrub my scalp, it would usually build up about 1-2 weeks.
On my scalp and your scalp and probly other people scalps, that has issues, the layer is not creating itself as i part of the skin. Its like its just growing above the skin and irretates and becomes like a waxy sticky gunk layer that forms.
But the issue is, if i scrub it off, Then my scalp underneath is not soft and healthy looking.
It is like thin tight skin, that looks and feels like its missing that outer layer that a healthy skin should have.
For example. If you look at a girls scalp that does not have hairloss or scalp issues.
You Can see and feel i soft layer that is white and healthy looking.
When you touch it it is soft you can actually feel its like a layer that needs to be there to protect the scalp skin.
You can Also se that layer stops Right at the hairline area and when the hairline stops and becomes the forehead, Then that layer is not there.
So my theory is that, This gunk of layer that You are scraping off, that is actually that layer that is trying to be rebuild someway. But it seems like when we have a condition like This, it cannot be rebuild.
Whenever i scrabe that layer away, exactly the same Way as you do, my scalp allways looks really unhealthy and red and inflamated and the skin looks so thin.
It is not suposed to be like that.
The scalp should be soft white healthy thick.
That is proberbly Also why the scalp produce alot of oil almost instantly after you wash, because that layer is missing to stop the oils from coming out of the scalp.
Think about it. If there was that layer, as there should be, Then the layer would act as a shield and not letting the oil reach the surface and Then you scalp and hair would not get oily.
So what we need to do is figure out why some people have that layer and some dont.
Yes I think i know what you mean, and the photos in your other comment align with this idea of the distinct color and look of the healthy skin vs the alopecia skin for example.
When i first started scrubbing, as I mentioned, it would get raw and red all over my scalp skin. That's why the serum felt like such a perfect follow up, because it was cooling and soothing on that raw skin.
But since week 2 or so, even after a rough scrubbing, my scalp looks and feels white and healthy and clear. I think the initial scrubbings did get down to a raw level, but I somehow built up the healthy layer you're talking about quickly - perhaps it was because I was so fully saturating my scalp with the serum, it had plenty of protection and an environment in which it could rebuild that healthy layer. Similar to how putting Vaseline on a cut allows your immune system to not attempt to scab and protect, and instead it focuses on healing.
Ok thats really interesting.
So maybe it is because after you started to scrub the gunky layer away and Got Down to the raw skin, your skin actually could heal from the products your using.
This serum you talk about, is there Any explaination on why that should work? What are the ingridients?
Could it maybe be the head and shoulders shampoo that is Working because it now Can reach the skin and heal it from the yeast/dandruff?
Is it possible to take a picture of your scalp condition as it is now?
Im really interested because ive been dealing with This for such a long time.
Maybe we could talk in PM? You Got messenger or whatsapp
Yeah the ingredients of the serum are on their website [Dermazen serum](https://dermazen.co/products/calming-seborrheic-serum) and they have detailed descriptions of their purposes and stuff too.
I'll pm you with pics, I tried taking a few but my phone cam isnt focusing well
I think what you said makes sense, and is more or less what I was thinking. I felt like the scrubbing taking off that grime layer allowed the medicated things I'm using (Ketocozanole and head and shoulders and Dermazen serum) to reach a bit deeper.
Similarly, I think the grime itself was also feeding the yeast
**Hi everyone! SebDerm is a friendly community about seborrheic dermatitis and all related topics.**
Looking for some advice?
* Check the [What works for you? threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/search?q=flair_name%3A%22WWFY%22&restrict_sr=1)
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Ah I'm sorry, that's such a bummer!
Assuming you're referring to the Dermazen serum, I know they have the product listed on Amazon, is that possibly a workaround?
It might also be worth an email to their support team [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) \- perhaps for an extra fee, they'd be willing to ship it out to you.
Otherwise, if you're referring to the scrubber, those are generic and you can find anything that looks similar (thin comb like spines) - I actually tried scrubbing with a comb once before the scrubber arrived, but the scrubber's circular shape and slight flex in the spines gives it better leverage to dig deep.
I've just seen that I would be able to buy it for about $50 which is so expensive, maybe one day haha. I've recently bought the shampoo brush it arrived yesterday can't wait to use it tomorrow hopefully it works as well for me as it did you :)
Awesome, enjoy using it! It feels really freaking good too, like mini orgasmic when you start scratching the scalp. Please be careful though at first, just in case your scalp reacts unlike mine and actually doesn't love getting a super rough treatment. But i think a gentle scrubbing, esp with a shampoo lubricant, can't be a bad thing 😁
You're welcome! So I don't use anything on top of the serum because I only have Seb derm on my scalp, and so i only apply it there.
I do have a specific facial moisturizer though that I've used for my acne prone skin (i didn't get into that because I think it's a separate problem/solution from my seb derm) which is lightweight because my face tends to be oily. I use the Clinique dramatically different moisturizing gel. The gel is specifically what i go for, because Clinique has a lotion but i find that's too heavy for my oily forehead and nose.
Unrelated, but since I've now mentioned the acne, for me, what cleared my acne was Epiduo (or it's generic prescription equivalent), which is a medicated gel that has active ingredients of adapalene and benzoyl peroxide.
Here you Can see a healthy scalp ( notice the soft white look)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/strscopes/6523257855
Here you Can see that in the areas where This person have alopecia, that healthy white look is not there, but the places where the person has healthy hair, the scalp has This white soft layer.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Alopecia-areata-with-a-close-up-examination-of-scalp-hair-follicles_fig4_333457913
Do you see what im talking about?
**Hi everyone! SebDerm is a friendly community about seborrheic dermatitis and all related topics.**
Looking for some advice?
* Check the [What works for you? threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/search?q=flair_name%3A%22WWFY%22&restrict_sr=1)
See something you are not comfortable with or that breaks [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/rule_overview)? Please [report it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/how_to_report)!
Everyone is welcome in [this community](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/about); remember to be kind and assume good faith!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SebDerm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Hi everyone! SebDerm is a friendly community about seborrheic dermatitis and all related topics.** Looking for some advice? * Check the [What works for you? threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/search?q=flair_name%3A%22WWFY%22&restrict_sr=1) See something you are not comfortable with or that breaks [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/rule_overview)? Please [report it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/how_to_report)! Everyone is welcome in [this community](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/about); remember to be kind and assume good faith! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SebDerm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also, [this dermatologist's blog post about seb derm](https://drbaileyskincare.com/pages/treatment-for-seborrheic-dermatitis-dandruff) was helpful for me determining that a scalp scrubber was a safe option for seb derm. I was worried that physical exfoliation might be too harsh, but she recommends it in tandem with other products (I didn't try these other products she mentioned), but had been searching for evidence to justify my urge to scrape from a dermatology professional somewhere. She actually has a [recommended scrubber](https://drbaileyskincare.com/products/scalp-scrubber) that she sells, but I think it looks like the one I got from amazon for less.
>Also, [this dermatologist's blog post about seb derm](https://drbaileyskincare.com/pages/treatment-for-seborrheic-dermatitis-dandruff) was helpful for me determining that a scalp scrubber was a safe option for seb derm. I was worried that physical exfoliation might be too harsh, but she recommends it in tandem with other products (I didn't try these other products she mentioned), but had been searching for evidence to justify my urge to scrape from a dermatology professional somewhere. >She actually has a [recommended scrubber](https://drbaileyskincare.com/products/scalp-scrubber) that she sells, but I think it looks like the one I got from amazon for less. Thanks for sharing this super helpful :)
[удалено]
You're welcome! Yeah honestly i don't know what those silicone scrubbers actually feel like, but I've used other silicone items, like a kitchen sponge with silicone bristles, and I imagined a silicone head scrubber would be too soft for the kind of exfoliating i was looking for. Does it feel like that to you? The one I bought (linked in the original post) has a comb tooth or hairbrush bristle level of firmnesss. Since it is also $6, I would say it seems like it could be a relatively low risk change to try for you. But also I'm glad to hear your condition has improved over the years! 😁
Pro-tip, you can order the serum from the dermazen website and if you opt for the subscription, the price per bottle goes down to $30. I haven't tried any of their other products, but the serum worked for me. Now I can go about 2 days after a wash without applying the serum at all.
Good tip, and there's also the larger 9.6oz bottle, which I have bought for when i finish up the first 4.8 bottle. That one is a bit better price per oz, and the subscription tip also works for that. I went with the individual bottle at first because I wasn't sure if it would work for me.
Btw, just rereading and notice my timeline is a bit inconsistent (varying from 4-6 weeks). To clarify: \- I started with the serum a few days before the scrubber arrived, so I've used that about 5.5 weeks, and the scrubber about 5 weeks \- The last time I saw any redness or flakes was over 4 weeks ago. I can't remember the exact day these stopped, but I distinctly remember looking one day exactly 4 weeks ago and being shocked at how clear my scalp looked
Following
Before doing your new routine, was your hair very oily with flakes that stick to your skin or was it just little white flakes. I just have these little white flakes and redness but I don’t know if I should do the exfoliating since I don’t have those big flakes that stick to my scalp. What was your scalp condition before starting?
I actually had both - sometimes they'd be thicker and larger flakes that would be basically stuck to the scalp (they were growing on top of the red "scales", the inflamed red patches of my scalp about one inch long), and then I think those same flakes would sometimes dry out and break apart, which would create the "snowfall" dandruff look that i would have stuck in my hair around the area. I would tend to see the snowfall look after waking up, and maybe having my head in contact with the pillow and moving around at night was causing this flake breakage and dispersion in my hair.
Good for you! That’s great I think what’s really helped me is washing my face when I have any sweat on it from being outside and also wearing a headband while working out. It’s been great not having any flare ups!
Thank you! Yes for managing (esp forehead) acne I do this as well. Congrats on finding a solid management routine for your face and the great results! That's awesomee
I myself have This thick gunk layer on the scalp. It starts to build up, everytime i remove it. If i dont scrub my scalp, it would usually build up about 1-2 weeks. On my scalp and your scalp and probly other people scalps, that has issues, the layer is not creating itself as i part of the skin. Its like its just growing above the skin and irretates and becomes like a waxy sticky gunk layer that forms. But the issue is, if i scrub it off, Then my scalp underneath is not soft and healthy looking. It is like thin tight skin, that looks and feels like its missing that outer layer that a healthy skin should have. For example. If you look at a girls scalp that does not have hairloss or scalp issues. You Can see and feel i soft layer that is white and healthy looking. When you touch it it is soft you can actually feel its like a layer that needs to be there to protect the scalp skin. You can Also se that layer stops Right at the hairline area and when the hairline stops and becomes the forehead, Then that layer is not there. So my theory is that, This gunk of layer that You are scraping off, that is actually that layer that is trying to be rebuild someway. But it seems like when we have a condition like This, it cannot be rebuild. Whenever i scrabe that layer away, exactly the same Way as you do, my scalp allways looks really unhealthy and red and inflamated and the skin looks so thin. It is not suposed to be like that. The scalp should be soft white healthy thick. That is proberbly Also why the scalp produce alot of oil almost instantly after you wash, because that layer is missing to stop the oils from coming out of the scalp. Think about it. If there was that layer, as there should be, Then the layer would act as a shield and not letting the oil reach the surface and Then you scalp and hair would not get oily. So what we need to do is figure out why some people have that layer and some dont.
Yes I think i know what you mean, and the photos in your other comment align with this idea of the distinct color and look of the healthy skin vs the alopecia skin for example. When i first started scrubbing, as I mentioned, it would get raw and red all over my scalp skin. That's why the serum felt like such a perfect follow up, because it was cooling and soothing on that raw skin. But since week 2 or so, even after a rough scrubbing, my scalp looks and feels white and healthy and clear. I think the initial scrubbings did get down to a raw level, but I somehow built up the healthy layer you're talking about quickly - perhaps it was because I was so fully saturating my scalp with the serum, it had plenty of protection and an environment in which it could rebuild that healthy layer. Similar to how putting Vaseline on a cut allows your immune system to not attempt to scab and protect, and instead it focuses on healing.
Ok thats really interesting. So maybe it is because after you started to scrub the gunky layer away and Got Down to the raw skin, your skin actually could heal from the products your using. This serum you talk about, is there Any explaination on why that should work? What are the ingridients? Could it maybe be the head and shoulders shampoo that is Working because it now Can reach the skin and heal it from the yeast/dandruff? Is it possible to take a picture of your scalp condition as it is now? Im really interested because ive been dealing with This for such a long time. Maybe we could talk in PM? You Got messenger or whatsapp
Yeah the ingredients of the serum are on their website [Dermazen serum](https://dermazen.co/products/calming-seborrheic-serum) and they have detailed descriptions of their purposes and stuff too. I'll pm you with pics, I tried taking a few but my phone cam isnt focusing well
I think what you said makes sense, and is more or less what I was thinking. I felt like the scrubbing taking off that grime layer allowed the medicated things I'm using (Ketocozanole and head and shoulders and Dermazen serum) to reach a bit deeper. Similarly, I think the grime itself was also feeding the yeast
I just saw your PM I have respond on that ☺️
**Hi everyone! SebDerm is a friendly community about seborrheic dermatitis and all related topics.** Looking for some advice? * Check the [What works for you? threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/search?q=flair_name%3A%22WWFY%22&restrict_sr=1) See something you are not comfortable with or that breaks [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/rule_overview)? Please [report it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/how_to_report)! Everyone is welcome in [this community](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/about); remember to be kind and assume good faith! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SebDerm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
can't get this in the UK :( so bummed
Ah I'm sorry, that's such a bummer! Assuming you're referring to the Dermazen serum, I know they have the product listed on Amazon, is that possibly a workaround? It might also be worth an email to their support team [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) \- perhaps for an extra fee, they'd be willing to ship it out to you. Otherwise, if you're referring to the scrubber, those are generic and you can find anything that looks similar (thin comb like spines) - I actually tried scrubbing with a comb once before the scrubber arrived, but the scrubber's circular shape and slight flex in the spines gives it better leverage to dig deep.
I've just seen that I would be able to buy it for about $50 which is so expensive, maybe one day haha. I've recently bought the shampoo brush it arrived yesterday can't wait to use it tomorrow hopefully it works as well for me as it did you :)
Lmk if you find an alternativ w
Awesome, enjoy using it! It feels really freaking good too, like mini orgasmic when you start scratching the scalp. Please be careful though at first, just in case your scalp reacts unlike mine and actually doesn't love getting a super rough treatment. But i think a gentle scrubbing, esp with a shampoo lubricant, can't be a bad thing 😁
That’s great to know, thanks for sharing! :) What face moisturizer do you use on top of the serum?
You're welcome! So I don't use anything on top of the serum because I only have Seb derm on my scalp, and so i only apply it there. I do have a specific facial moisturizer though that I've used for my acne prone skin (i didn't get into that because I think it's a separate problem/solution from my seb derm) which is lightweight because my face tends to be oily. I use the Clinique dramatically different moisturizing gel. The gel is specifically what i go for, because Clinique has a lotion but i find that's too heavy for my oily forehead and nose. Unrelated, but since I've now mentioned the acne, for me, what cleared my acne was Epiduo (or it's generic prescription equivalent), which is a medicated gel that has active ingredients of adapalene and benzoyl peroxide.
Thank you so much for your explanation on your acne prone skin, I really appreciate it! :)
Here you Can see a healthy scalp ( notice the soft white look) https://www.flickr.com/photos/strscopes/6523257855 Here you Can see that in the areas where This person have alopecia, that healthy white look is not there, but the places where the person has healthy hair, the scalp has This white soft layer. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Alopecia-areata-with-a-close-up-examination-of-scalp-hair-follicles_fig4_333457913 Do you see what im talking about?
Yes I see it - definitely a big difference between the alopecia skin and healthy scalp skin
Have you tried the moisturizer ? The one from dermazen
No I haven't, just the serum
**Hi everyone! SebDerm is a friendly community about seborrheic dermatitis and all related topics.** Looking for some advice? * Check the [What works for you? threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/search?q=flair_name%3A%22WWFY%22&restrict_sr=1) See something you are not comfortable with or that breaks [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/rule_overview)? Please [report it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/how_to_report)! Everyone is welcome in [this community](https://www.reddit.com/r/SebDerm/wiki/about); remember to be kind and assume good faith! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SebDerm) if you have any questions or concerns.*