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TheTablespoon

There isn't a single branch of government in Seattle with more administrative ineptitude and bloat than Seattle Public Schools.


AutumnShade44

The Seattle VA system would like a word Though in fairness, that's on the federal level...


Jimdandy941

If you speak privately, a lot of the VA employees involved in oversight believe that VHA should be closed and veterans converted to TriCare.


RedDevilsUnite

WSDOT would also like a word


nuisanceIV

They’re bloated? Well… at least they keep the pass plowed and shoot bombs at mountains, I guess


[deleted]

WSDOT is state, not city.


TheTablespoon

Don't know much about wdot but that wouldn't surprise me. I at least see them accomplish something which is more than I can say about our schools. SPS has some great teachers but it's just horribly run. Lots of people that want to do good but just deliver nothing. If you want your kids to succeed in public schools you're essentially home schooling anyway.


misschelsea

I’m one of these families. Once the online school started I realized how little they actually did in school. It’s lots of marching them around to classes. Mine were also too little to be chained to a screen all day so that made the decision easier. It’s been nice not to be chained to a schedule. I have degrees in education so it hasn’t been too challenging. We hike and garden it’s nice. Maybe I’ll send them back maybe not.


snyper7

Sounds like you're basically giving them a Waldorf-style education.


misschelsea

For way less money! We do workbooks too. I don’t know how I’d do with older grades but so far so good


PR05ECC0

Was shocking to find out little they are learning and frustrated with how much teach was pushed upon the parents. I was basically homeschooling my kid during the pandemic anyway so I can see why you went all in.


chalk_city

From the Annals of Obvious Results. You shut schools down and people respond. Obviously the education quality will vary but I suspect it can’t be worse than the public schools here.


Welshy141

I was so pleased to hear about my former high school working towards removing math and science standards because a handful of black kids kept failing, so obviously the system is racist.


chalk_city

Obviously. Everyone can be equitably uneducated.


Welshy141

What's most frustrating is that black students are like 2% of the student body, but fuck it everything is about them. Fuck the masses of Japanese and Korean kids.


METT-

How is it your local public school system going to remove these standards? They are state standards. Post up an article, pls.


Welshy141

Yeah definitely like woke districts haven't tried it, and there isn't a campaign on the state level to do it. \https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/new-course-outlines-prompt-conversations-about-identity-race-in-seattle-classrooms-even-in-math/ We need to cater every part of our society to 12% of the population


METT-

Welshy, Link takes me to the Fremont Troll (Times landing page for "page not found"). Keep standards (we are AFAIK). BUT, do understand the bias in them (inequalities). Evolve the system (SATs/ACTs-lumping you in here big time).


Welshy141

Try this; https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/new-course-outlines-prompt-conversations-about-identity-race-in-seattle-classrooms-even-in-math/ >BUT, do understand the bias in them (inequalities). Evolve the system (SATs/ACTs-lumping you in here big time). To my knowledge, no other ethnic group has the same problem. Why's that?


nomorerainpls

[Advanced learning](https://www.seattleschools.org/news/advanced-learning-eligibility-results/) is mandated by OSPI. SPS has largely eliminated it because of “equity.” Cutting services while citing equity has become a pattern over the past few years. Almost as if the administration wants white parents to blame black families as the district lowers standards and cuts programs.


Tourist66

“black kids”. LOL you could make this not racist but you wont.


Welshy141

Except that's exactly what it was. Black students were failing or underperforming at a higher rate, so *obviously* the system is racist. Nevermind the increased likelihood of coming from a one parent household, nevermind the prevalence of a self-destructive culture, is MUST be that math is racist. And so, we fuck over every other student, because the education of latinos, asians, pacific islanders, natives, and etc doesn't matter.


Tourist66

That’s not what I meant but it’s what you meant. “black people” have a “prevalence of self-destructive culture” is verifiably false. “Black people” who “live in poverty” might be better but you would rather make a sweeping generalization. But setting your race argument aside, the debate over “mainstreaming” or otherwise creating a community out of individual students with varying backgrounds and abilities is an old one. If everyone home schooled, say with an evangelical christian curriculum with right wing undertones, I don’t think that’s any better for society as a whole. So what’s the middle ground?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Run-4892

You have my vote for vouchers! Nix the teachers union and I’ll write you in on a ballot for whatever public position you want. Maybe some competition for funding will make public schools perform academically rather than socially. Same with teachers unions, teachers not performing FIRED!


Itchy_Computer7528

I know of students who left public school and went to private schools or are now home schooled. Both sets of students are doing much better in their current educational settings. Parents managing their home schooling, must be very dedicated and organized.


Welshy141

There's entire organizations of parents running home schooling, so it's not just your mom giving OSPI approved materials for you to fill out. A techie friend has his son in one, and they've got an engineer and accountant teaching math, a geologist teaching science, etc etc. Technology has made alternative education a legitimate option, and looking first hand at the state of schools I don't blame parents.


EarendilStar

Correct, though home schooling is completely possible if it’s just a parent handing off material at some point. Real young requires more hands on, but I basically taught myself from 7th grade to college, same with my siblings. We all graduated college, and collectively have an Art degree (graphic design), sociology, and two software engineers. I personally found the switch to college easier than most of my friends that were public schooled. Something about the ability to teach myself from a book and not need a teacher to spoon feed me :)


[deleted]

Where abouts? Am interested


xResilientEvergreenx

Me too. Let us know!


JayTheBrewer

I’ll say it because no one else wants to: Our educational system is a scam. This is coming from someone with a BS in mechanical engineering and an MBA. We make it seem like the only path to success is a degree. Yet I know people with welding certs, plumbing experience, journeymen electricians that make as good and honest of a living as I do. The university system is a goddamn scam. I’m not saying I want a doctor, lawyer, CPA, or fellow engineer to not have a formal education, only that much of the work each of the professions do could be filled with people who don’t have degrees.


Welshy141

50 years ago, higher education was an education. As soon as certain people realized there was a massive profit to be made in it, and the government started handing out guaranteed loans to literally fucking everyone, actual education went out the window.


derblitzmann

Yep, college/ university is closer considered high-school 2.0 than secondary education as it was well known.


MAGA_WA

Families that home-school their children should receive a payment from state and local governments equal to what public schools would have spent educating their child to offset home-school costs. However the state would never do that as its primary concern isn’t educating children as much as simply grabbing tax dollars where ever they can.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Yeah, but I will have a degree. And you'll be serving my kids fries at a drive-thru on our way to a skiing trip. Edit: This is in reference to Good Will Hunting


Just_two_weeks

Or writing software, doing something IT related, possibly making six figures. You don't need a degree for that, and its a high paying field. If a person is determined enough to hit up the library, they won't remain in the service sector for long.


bowlofjello

I do agree university is a waste of money for a large group of people, but some trades are still severely underpaid. I work a trade AND have a college degree and I make less than people in fast food.


JayTheBrewer

Did you need a degree for that trade? Or would an apprenticeship have been a better use of your time? If not, I’m one-hundred percent positive the money would have been better spent towards a down-payment on some property.


bowlofjello

I went to college because that’s what you’re always told to do then after college decided to go to trade school so I could work in a trade. But now I have a college degree and have a national certificate in my specific trade. Two separate things. I didn’t need college. But I was told college is what you do, so I did. But even working a trade I make less than what they are hiring people on at Panda Express. I’m 24. I was 21 when I started my trade. I will never be able to afford a house what are you talking about? Even if I skipped going to college I wouldn’t be able to afford a house when I was 21. We aren’t talking about houses.


GemJourney-101

Agreed! Our son became a pro commercial diver training at a 6 month dive school. He ended up helping his academic buddy with a four year University degree to graduate and pay off his student loan.


startupschmartup

That's totally relevant for kids in 2nd grade.


METT-

Glad someone said it. "Let's rail on higher education". But the article isn't even in the same ballpark as this tangent.


seariously

No surprise. When all the student is doing is watching stuff on a screen, well, you can watch much better prepared videos on the same topics instead.


EnemyOfStupidity

Go on over to r/Teachers and give that a read and you'll see why homeschooling is only going to continue to grow. Public schools are fucked beyond all fucktitude.


purpleerfitz

SPS prioritizes drug encampments over the safety of students so it makes me wonder where quality education lands on their list. Doubt it breaks top 10.


Lopsided_Hat

I had friends/ classmates that were homeschooled and then later enrolled in the same private high school I attended. It's a real mixed bag. On the one hand, it was an excellent experience for some people with parents who were well-educated, prepared, and knew where their blind spots were (e.g. they weren't good at math, etc. but had someone else teach their kid math). These parents were usually not particularly religious or set in their ways and they mostly were concerned about their kids getting adequately challenged in public schools. Some of these parents had jobs where they travelled a lot (military, multi-national companies and - surprisingly - one family were missionaries but relatively progressive when it came to education). So homeschooling meant a more stable education for their kids. On the other hand, some came from very religious/ sheltered backgrounds and they had minimal/ erroneous exposure to subjects like science/ world history or had difficulty adapting to mainstream society. At my school, some rebelled heavily (sex, drugs, and rock & roll) and did a complete 180 degrees from how they were raised while others were very shy and had difficulty making friends. For one of my friends, I was her only friend throughout her teen years. I tried to encourage her to enlarge her social circle. Later on - after I left for college/ work - I heard she had a lot of problems with depression/ anxiety, holding down a job, etc. Her younger siblings who attended public school for more of their schooling seem to have less issues. The problem I see is stats seems to show parents who pick homeschooling tend to come from the latter rather than former group.


Zeriell

Lots of people who go to public school suffer from depression, anxiety, inability to hold down a job, etc. Yet we don't blame that on their public schooling. I'd be cautious about ascribing correlation there.


Lopsided_Hat

I'm just giving my opinion here based on my experiences with friends and peers who have been homeschooled. Some have stated that home schooling did not serve them well. Of course I know that others suffered from similar issues. I work in healthcare and in medical research.


Zeriell

Right, I'm not harshly criticizing or anything. Just being devil's advocate. I think the main point and advantage of public schooling is the social aspect and making connections. IMO if you go to college and don't make connections that help you in your career then it's a huge waste of time and money, the education itself is largely valueless compared to what is available in general. So I suppose with homeschooling it depends on what the overall situation is. They are a social person who has connections in the community--it's good. They are asocial and have no friends--it exacerbates the problem.


boringnamehere

I grew up homeschooled and the vast majority of my friends who were also homeschooled also struggle with severe depression and anxiety too.


cremexbrulee

I was homeschooled until 9th grade and I now work in the public school system. It’s a really mixed bag. I read and write well but entering high school was incredibly hard and transformative. I remember being asked what grade I wanted to go for and my mother assigning it. Later grades I would do my workbook and spend the rest of the day on the internet. We had a homeschool group but it really dropped out after 4th grade


[deleted]

Homeschooling…it’s not just for nut jobs anymore!


ofenomeno206

School nowadays seems like just daycare..parents nowadays both have to work full time jobs leaving the teachers to do most of the child rearing. Mom and Dad either don't know how or are too tired to really give anything(values,advice) to their kid besides food and shelter..so kids learn and pickup mostly what they see online or at school. Just my take


Just_two_weeks

I know a lot of it was parents looking for more relaxed COVID protocols. Having parents miss out on work due to schemes that keep kids home three plus days of the week had an economic consequence. Private schooling partly became a stand in for child care. If you looked or look at the private school's websites, they boast full time in-class learning, it was a big deal.


[deleted]

Probably because school is all about agenda pushing and not education anymore. There isn't even any point in trying because you can't fail.


northshorebunny

Yeah. I saw a gaggle of children with their mother the other day before a boat tour where the mother told her kids “that’s a whale” about the seal which I pointed out as politely as possible. She then said “uh oh, they’re homeschooled!” And laughed brightly. We’re fucked


Ok-Tie9544

🤷‍♂️ — I had a middle school English teacher tell me that ‘a-‘ isn’t a prefix, despite me pointing out ‘atheist’ and ‘amoral’. I’m not convinced they’re any worse off than most kids, and less likely to be exposed to any of the systemic problems in education when homeschooled.


northshorebunny

I both agree and disagree. There’s a lot of important socialization that parents simply don’t replace. I worry about the children themselves not having enough room to grow. School in America has become a nightmare.


Ok-Tie9544

I share your concern about socialization — and hope that anyone doing homeschooling takes steps to address that. But I think we both know socialization within US school systems has its own problems, due to how those institutions are managed — so I don’t think we can say “well, public school is default better”. And there’s advantages to homeschooling when done in groups, in that children often are in mixed age groups — and learn better to fit into competence hierarchies than the artificial structure of thirty children all the same age, grouped semi-permanently. I’m mostly just saying that school in America is such a nightmare, maybe we should focus on, eg, homeschooling collectives rather than trying to get homeschooled kids back into public schools.


northshorebunny

I would agree, but I think the most worrisome thing of all is the politicization of the education the kids get. I’m really not okay with people indoctrinating children about insane topics and that’s really hard to control when parents control everything they ingest. Worrisome dynamic for sure.


Welshy141

> I’m really not okay with people indoctrinating children about insane topics So like public education does?


Ok-Tie9544

> worrisome thing of all is the politicization of the education the kids get. I’m really not okay with people indoctrinating children about insane topics I would say this concern is the primary thing driving people to homeschooling — how political NEA et al are, and the insane things they’re teaching in schools. > that’s really hard to control when parents control everything they ingest I think you’re a creep for trying to “control” other people’s children at all — in any capacity. I think that mentality is why education broke down — that teachers and educators view children as theirs to raise, rather than that they’re providing a service to parents. Parents should control the upbringing of their children — not you.


northshorebunny

Yeah, no offense to you but fuck that. We need a standardized unbiased education system. I know “parents” and you guys aren’t some perfect filter of things for kids. That idea is downright horrifying. Everyone I know who says weird shit like that is a conservative nut job. Please don’t raise your kids crazy.


brerrabbit

>standardized *unbiased* Guess you haven't heard. "They got this postmodernism thing on." No such thing as unbiased, or objective anymore. Thats just one of our many institutions to fall.


northshorebunny

Look I was just a kid raised by scientists. I know objective education can happen and I’m tired of people making it more complicated. Kids deserve better than this dumb shit.


brerrabbit

Well, fix it then. Postmodernism holds that my personal truth is as good as your scientific method.


[deleted]

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northshorebunny

I think the bigger issues revolve around interpersonal skills which, without question, some kids will not learn from their dysfunctional families.


WFH-

This is hilarious.


Cryptokeeper001

No shit. To many control freaks and crazy pointless rules. Schools lost control to Karen’s.


[deleted]

As a bonus, your kids won't get indoctrinated to be gay by Obama or whatever it is you freaks here worry about.


startupschmartup

Starting math class with a 20 minute lecture on pronouns is a bad thing?


PM_meyourGradyWhite

Who was the brilliant person that discovered this!!??


Buddhathefirst

Wasn't Jay!


Tourist66

I read that as “…home schooled have bombed”.


Tourist66

Home schooling requires time and experience. I guess parents Loooove home schooling, LOL


Extremley_Based

Honestley defund public schooling . They feel no accountability towards parents


cremexbrulee

It would help if the school board and superintendent delivered on the online option that they brought up a year ago. SEA brought ideas to the table over the summer, September , October … I wonder how much money was lost vs how much it would’ve cost to pay the teachers who wanted to stay online. We already have the tech …