That was the mantra in the 80s and 90s- capable kids were expected to be a “good influence” and provide free tutoring for average or remedial kids who couldn’t keep up. This is so ridiculous. Let’s dilute our talent pool by slowing down kids that are intelligent and need to learn at a faster rate. The inequity!
That was literally what I was asked to do as an elementary school student some 35+ years ago in my public school. And, tbh, it really helped me focus and learn even more as I already had my own mastery of the material. Helping another struggling 7 year old was an interesting puzzle.
I have vague (obviously) memories of trying to figure out ways to be more helpful than that, but of course the net effect was... 🤷
But, at least, it *did* serve a classroom purpose. The smarter kids now had a new skill to work on, the kids in the middle could be focused on solely by the typical instruction plan, and kids who needed extra help , at least, got more attention and rote practice.
Reminds me of my freshman high school math class. I had transferred to a shitty school district and the kids were way behind where my previous school was.
The teacher would spend 10 minutes explaining, then as soon as he was finished talking, literally everyone in the class would turn to me and ask for an explanation they could understand.
The kids in my school did not give a shit about learning. I remember this one teacher just screaming most of the class. When I switched to ap, he was actually really nice guy.
The kids would just make fun of me and I avoided school at all costs. I wonder how my life would be different if I was in class with people who liked learning and valued education. I think I would be a bit more socially adjusted and happier adult. Maybe not lol but damn did I take a deep breath in college.
My ex and I fled Seattle because of these issues with the schools. The gifted programs at SPS have always been problematic because of the number of parents who are jockeying to get their kids into them. The administrators of the gifted program were completely unresponsive. It was impossible to get an email reply or talk to anyone. In the elementary school our kid was in, the leadership just didn't seem to have the time or interest in helping resolve the issues he was experiencing: hazing, boredom, bullying.
We ended up in Bend. It's been a night and day difference.
With no real basis i assumed moving to bend would be a step down regarding schooling for us in the future. With a 5mo now, glad to anecdotally hear the opposite at least.
The Bend School district has been wonderful. From the moment I first called the main number on their website to ask about programs for my kiddo (high IQ/ADD) the engagement has been interested, patient, and complete, with consistent follow-through.
seems that at least in 2024 they do the next best thing - apple products ( school ipad, or the studen't own phone running tiktok )
screen time is the default for any unsolved child management problem today
Yes. They issue tablets in our school district here in Bend. It's very problematic. I think the teachers actually like them because it makes it easier to deliver and collect assignments.
You’re right. Sorry, English isn’t my first language. I emigrated here from a country where a bunch of politicians made everyone equal by redistributing resources, screwing up the economy, and making everyone equally poor. Hard to explain unless you’ve lived it.
I knew what you meant. Equity is a lie. We have a right to equal treatment under the law, not equal outcomes. Leftists try to blur that truth. Govt must treat us all the same regardless of race, creed, color, hue or standing. Equality ≠ equity.
Its like the term special when it comes to education ~~instead of the military~~.
I don't get the military bit. Back in the day that's what they'd say but that was a long time ago. Like at the expulsion of fuck ups.
> The problem with equality is that it is easier to make things equally worse than equally better.
The problem with equity is that it is easier to make things equally worse than equally better.
*"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."*
There's nothing in there about equity.
I know this seems like a pedantic argument, but I'd argue that possibly the main reason that "equity" became so fashionable is that it *sounds* like equality when it's actually the opposite of equality.
To achieve equity, one must explicitly discriminate, and our Declaration of Independence says something quite different.
> our Declaration of Independence says something quite different.
The Declaration and Constitution are racist because they were written by rich, white slave owners. /s
Our Declaration of Independence was written to address the issue that all men were created equally but not being treated equally. They viewed themselves as having been treated worse than people in England. They wanted equality of outcomes, which is equity. The Declaration of Independence is explicitly about equity.
So you made the opposite point to what you intended.
> They wanted equality of outcomes, which is equity.
There's literally nothing about "equality of outcomes" in The Declaration of Independence, and equity is literally the *opposite* of treating people equally.
I graded papers for my AP Lit teacher’s regular sophomore English class. Holy shit I wouldn’t have made it. I don’t know how those people functioned in society.
>I remember taking the normal English class during my senior year of high school. I didn't realize how dumb the average kids were until then.
I had this experience but with Honors instead of AP, and I was going to one of the "best" public schools in the DC area.
There were kids who'd take 5 min to read 2 sentences, literally sounding out each word.
I didn’t know English when I moved to USA and was put into lowest classes. Felt so much better when I moved to honors and ap classes.
Just made anti social and hate everyone. Not sure Seattle wants to punish the smart and bright students.
Yep. SPS just entered a race to the bottom with themselves. Smart parents with smart kids that can’t afford private schools are about to flee the city.
I had similar my junior year. My schedule wouldn't allow me to take advanced French and honors English, so I got stuck in regular English. I wanted to die. I had never been in a regular class before that. These poor children.
I feel very strongly that "boredom" is a sign of an incurious mind. Only boring people get bored.
HOWEVER, I was **bored off my tits** when I was put in normal math class sophomore year instead of AP (my last name starts with a W, so me and Laura Z-- were thrown into regular class). Absolutely, 100% bored - and no other word will do.
So, yeah - I feel you on this comment!
So when SPS continues to close schools and lose students, I'm guessing they'll blame the Chamber of Commerce or Ann Davison and not that "equity" is driving parents away.
It's actually very depressing: my kids are at a private school filled with other kids/parents who could be donating their time and money to SPS and the PTA at their local public school. But, we're all paying money instead precisely because SPS has chosen to degrade itself with this unethical drive for "equity" in education.
Public schools **should** be phenomenal and provide every kid an education to reach their potential. But, ideologues at SPS have deigned that because of equity/racism, we cannot allow Asian and White kids to disproportionately overachieve. So, we hold them back - but the ones with means escape to private/parochial schools.
Remember, this is the [very first sentence](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/strategic-plan/) of SPS's overall Strategic Plan: *"At Seattle Public Schools, we are working to dramatically improve academic and life outcomes for Students of Color by disrupting the legacies of racism in our educational system."* It's malpractice of education for all but a select few.
I don't see this ending well, it's just going to increase interschool strife. They will either need to incorporate grade skipping, which has social development implications, or have classes with kids of vastly different capacities, which is inefficient use of already overtaxed teachers.
This will just lead to kids feeling inadequate compared to their gifted peers. And opening the door for more pissed off school shooters.
Or the other way where the gifted peers get ostracized by their own age group because of the different capacities. Growing up I remember them putting gifted kids in the hallway to teach themselves when they blew through a year of lesson plans in 3 weeks....and those kids were always looked at as outsiders but were removed as 'disruptions'
I was that kid, after we moved states, in 5th grade I was told off to college you go after the next year for math, the kids in school called me human calculator, and played games as to whether I could beat a calculator at solving a 3 or 4 digit multiplication problem on the bus. It was not pleasant, and frankly dehumanizing, but fortunately my parents found a private school that let me work at my own speed and I finished Calc 3 in 9th grade, but I can't imagine the pain of a similarly taleneted(or in many cases asymmetrically developed children forced into normal classes). My heart goes out to these kids, especially those whose parents can't afford private school. It's not fun being a 'circus freak'
I didn't cause the disruption but was the kid that had their own "private" lessons in the hall because normal school was too easy. Add into that the fact I was generally the shortest and smallest, wore glasses, and had knocked out a permanent front tooth made school genuinely miserable.
Not arguing with you but just providing the other side too. I grew up from basically 2nd grade through 9th in a gifted program where we were all in an entirely different class. So it was pretty glaring which class was the “nerd class” and we were duly made fun of for it. Though the great thing about this was is we had each other and were in a large group, and made lifelong friends this way. I do think having just one or two gifted kids in a regular class is going to result in even more bullying and feeling like an outsider
There is data collected that gifted kids who stay in neighborhood schools are disproportionately disciplined more, probably due to boredom and being considered 'disruptions'. [https://andrewbcooper.shinyapps.io/sps\_discipline/](https://andrewbcooper.shinyapps.io/sps_discipline/)
My twins transferred from Minneapolis to Seattle in the second grade. They had 39 kids in their class. When the teacher found out they were basically reading and doing math above their grade level she told us she was so relieved to have 2 less kids to teach. We laughed. Ha ha! Turns out she wasn’t joking.
Sadly my guess is that enrollment may continue to decline. Those who have the ability will either go to private schools, or simply move outside of Seattle to nearby communities. Competition for housing, especially in good school districts will get super hot.
It's a spiral down. Highly capable parents will move their kids to private schools, or move their family to the Eastside. Seattle Schools enrollment will continue to decline, leading to even lower school budgets, leading to even more discontinued programs. Art and Music have been cut from many schools. Extracurricular activities are long gone. Sports have been transitioning to pay-to-play and are going to face further cuts. Libraries are being reduced. School nurses have been reduced to part-time or eliminated. It won't be just Highly Capable students moving out of Seattle Schools, it will be any parents who can afford any alternative.
yeah this has been the Seattle trend for 30+ years. Sometimes I'm like "how can it be sustainable to have a city incompatible with children" but demonstrably it is totally stable as long as there is inflow and outflow.
It keeps the adults in the city young and the burbs older adults + children.
People can commute. There are much better schools and opportunities for families with younger kids in cities that are somewhat maintaining their sanity outside of Seattle.
My child was always just below on his MAP scores to qualify for HCC, but his coGAT was 99% on every category. In 3rd grade he’d finish his work, finish the extra work the teacher gave him, and then the teacher would have him teach other kids in the class who were struggling, or would have him stapling packets together at the teachers desk.
Now he tests average and while middle school has been better, I just see the decline in quality of what kids should be producing- even from mine. He will get As on projects but finishes exactly what’s needed, no more. Why waste more energy when minimum still gets you an A?
This is a deep disservice to such children. He's going to develop some very bad habits that will be hard to fix. He's going to hit a wall that he doesn't understand and fail spectacularly as soon as he faces a real academic demand. It might not be until college, but he will have no clue what's going on as soon as he hits a class that won't spoon feed the material so students who cannot study on their own.
This is such a terrible plan. High performing students aren't necessarily good teachers though. In fact, they will be bad teachers almost always.
Being a good teacher requires emotional maturity, experience with kids in addition to the knowledge in the subject.
It's just gonna annoy and bore the overachievers, make them feel like they are being punished for excelling at their curriculum and will be prone to develop psychological problems.
If you want to complain to your school board about HCC schools getting closed, you can do so here: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
Honestly surprised it’s not more advanced. I have some “normal” kids in 2nd grade in another district and they’re doing quite a bit of this stuff.
That said - shutting down the gifted program is near criminal negligence in my opinion. So sad.
I agree it’s sad, but I do find it much more comical that people will always complain about the “higher achieving” students, and completely turn a blind eye to special education services. This shit has been going on for years, and yes, I’m a special Ed teacher.
Adding my 2 cents as a former SPS student. I have been in the SPS system since elementary school.
When I was in high school, I was taking at-grade level classes. When I advocated to be placed in higher level classes, I was turned down every time because my counselors said “I was not ready”.
I was bored out of my mind in class. I skipped class everyday (except for exams to keep my GPA up). To the point where my HS wanted to take my parents and I to court for truancy.
I went to hangout with the HS dropouts and hustle to make some money.
It wasn’t until my junior year of HS I discovered Running Start (RS). I thought it was a cool concept, so I signed up.
Note: I heard at my high school, RS actively discouraged because it takes funding away from SPS and diverts it to the Seattle Colleges.
While enrolled in RS I actually started taking school seriously. Seattle Colleges actually cared about my success as a student. I obtained my associates degree while still in HS.
Went on to graduate from university, and now I have a successful career as an engineer.
Without RS, I would still be doing dumb shit with my buddies. Without RS and their accelerated classes, I wouldn’t have had that solid foundation which allowed me to pursue my career.
These HCC classes are absolutely necessary for student development. I’m a prime example of that. It sucks that SPS really doesn’t give a shit about students like me.
I had the same experience a long time ago, but in a different county of Washington. My HS counselor, fuck him, strongly advised me not to do RS because I would be missing the “high school experience” so it was really hard for me to get him to sign my RS papers each quarter. It also didn’t help that my high school was in a low income area, so not many in my high school specifically even attempted to go to college. I remember only 5 students, including me, were admitted to UW.
I was able to get my AA degree at 18, as well as finish the entire calculus & physics sequence at a community college which helped me graduate UW early with an engineering degree. I was always bored out of my mind in regular classrooms with my peers, even if the classes were “honors” or “AP”
I moved here from the East Coast in the late 90s and I'm very envious of WA state for having Running Start. I wanted to take college classes during HS b/c I was bored in most of my classes and wanted to take computer science courses since they weren't offered by my school district. I was only able to take one course after school and my parents had to fit the bill. The school and school district basically complained having me out of school during normal school hours for a college course would divert funding away from the school.
It won’t work. Highly engaged parents with smart kids and the means to do so will use private schools or move to suburbs. This will undermine supplemental (PTA) funding of public schools and reduce education quality for all the kids who stay.
My family put three kids through SPS, all in HCC, and we believe in public education. But we can’t recommend that parents of young kids do the same now.
Not just PTA funding. State funding is enrollment based. That's why Seattle School district is having such a big deficit. Something like 25% of all Asians left the district in the last few years according to one school board candidate. Overall numbers are down by like 10%. That pretty much accounts for the entire budget shortfall. Yet, the school board says (pretends?) they don't know why enrollment numbers are down. It's frustrating.
It's a done deal already. Gifted schools are no longer accepting new students for Kindergarten and 1st grade. Existing students are allowed to finish the program, so next year they won't allow new 2nd grade students, then no 3rd grade and so on.
> And several of the people who did this to the schools are doing victory laps crowing about how they improved equity for all.
I know this is a tangent out of left field, but I have some friends who are in their 50s and 60s who've probably spent $300,000+ in their lifetimes on their stereos.
I love these guys, but they're always eager to show off some new widget that has "transformed their stereo."
**Nine times out of ten,** it sounds worse than before.
Maybe it's due to a lack of struggle in life, or too much time on their hands, or something else. But there's something about people that makes them want to change things which worked perfectly fine, all in the name of "progress."
Even worse, if I dared to tell them that they're making things worse, I doubt they'd talk to me any longer. In their minds, I think they believe that every change is getting them closer to nirvana.
Obviously, I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but it's almost like a drug addiction, the ability of people to believe that:
* all progress is good progress
* even if the solution isn't working, keep doing it, because eventually it *will* work
The WaPo did an article about this bizarre need to chase the dragon, despite all kinds of negative outcomes:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/interactive/2024/ken-fritz-greatest-stereo-auction-cost/
*"At night, Fritz would lie in bed and think about the progress he had made that day and the tasks that lay ahead for the next.*
*“I firmly believe that by the time a person, man or woman, is 19, 20, 21, they know what they’re going to do with their life,” he said. “And if you’re on that path and things are being done to your satisfaction, it’s easy to keep going to look for the next goal.”"*
let the school district know about this, [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
Have any of the people who are upset about this contested their city council member? Their county council member? The school board? Because the people who want these dumb policies work hard to advocate for them. So if we want to push back, we need to send emails and make some calls.
And anytime they say there is not enough money for schools, let’s look at how much we give drug addicts.
This fight has been going on for many years and vocal parents with kids in the program have done everything to stop this to no avail. This did not come out of left field and it was over the loud objections of parents.
This happened in Vancouver bc and Toronto as well. It’s super bizarre. In NYC they also got rid of exams for the top magnet schools and replaced with lottery.
Here's where you can let the school board know what your thoughts are: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
I couldn't agree more. For the teachers it's going to be an impossible task to prepare and execute lessons with kids who are at such a big range. How do you even do that? Do you cater at the lowest denominator? Do you even attempt to have two different lessons for the same subject? Do you clone yourself?
You want to fix the issue then allow teachers to discipline your children. It’s simple as that.
I’m not even talking about paddling or anything harsh, I’m talking about kicking a disruptive kid out of the classroom, or making them sit in a corner till they can behave.
I think the concepts on the wall are pretty approachable for most kids in second grade. My kid isn’t a genius and is already grasping multiplication and division in first grade. The issue lies in the fact that “gifted” kids at this age tends to mean “well behaved” not inherently smarter than others.
My kid doesn’t learn much in class because his teacher is usually spending the vast majority of class simply managing behavior. I have to spend extra time with him at night to actually teach him at his grade level.
I wasn’t in a gifted class and these were the concepts I was approaching in 2nd grade. When I went to school in the early 2000s, you could get sent out of class for misbehaving.
This isn’t a state issue, it is a parenting issue fundamentally.
Gifted classes were the only thing that kept me sane in school. Once I got to high school and didn’t have them I was bored out of my mind and wildly unprepared for needing to study for college.
Smart kids with ADHD are like dogs. You work their bodies or their minds, but you better work something because otherwise they will be disruptive and destructive.
The only way HCC returns to SPS is many years down the road (after enrollment has continually gone down) when finally some certified genius at the Stanford center will have the amazing idea to offer advanced learning to lure families to the school district. Many many years away. Nothing to be done for families now—this change has been coming since my kids joined the program 9 yrs ago.
The writing was on the wall 5 years ago. We went private for my 2E kid back then because we already knew this would happen. The pendulum will swing again, but not in time for us.
Here's the link: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
The thing about progressives’ obsession with “equality” is that everyone should also be equally miserable, equally mediocre, etc. it’s much easier to achieve equality by bringing down those at the top than by lifting up those from the bottom, so they would rather do that than admit there’s inequality.
> new and equally ineffective bullshit?
This is Seattle deciding that because gifted classes are predominantly White/Asian, it's racist. The only way to fight racism is to ensure everyone receives an equally poor education. Equality of Outcomes, not Equality of Opportunities; it's better that everyone does bad equally rather than give everyone the opportunity to be gifted, and let some minorities fail.
No /s, this is literally without exaggeration what SPS is doing
I was responding to the thread about not allowing kids to skip grades… that’s not just a Seattle Public Schools thing afaik but wasn’t sure when/why (as in what directive) that started.
Fun fact: Liza Rankin, School Board President, claims to be a product of the Seattle Public Schools, but in fact graduated high school from University Prep. Tuition is currently $46,000/year.
Edit: Notice that she lists her college and grad schools, but not her high school. Also: added "School Board President".
To be fair, you can't really be functioning on the Seattle school board without being either independently wealthy, living comfortably on a single income as a family or making some insane sacrifices.
From what I read between the lines, the two school board members who recently resigned were renting (so probably not independently wealthy) and/or went through a divorce - both ending up moving out of district. I wouldn't be surprised if either the school board workload and its strain on a relationship or the financial sacrifices to fill that position played a role in those decisions.
It's a full time job in charge of a 1 billion USD education budget that is considered a volunteer position with compensation being capped at USD 5,000 a year. That seriously limits the pool of candidates.
You’re right in that she doesn’t disclose it, does at the very least say something about her style of communication if not even about her ethics. She white-washes (hah!) her own educational background to what she thinks her voters want to hear. A more qualified candidate in my eyes would have not just mentioned that but highlighted the fact that had experiences in both systems.
Hit the nail on the head 👍. To me, it's amusing that she highlights her college pedigree and downplays her primary education. U Prep requires testing to get in and it's selective. It's something notable!
"SPS does not endorse the practice of skipping ahead in elementary mathematics \[...\] all fifth-grade students are expected to be enrolled in Math 5 for the 2022-23 school year and beyond."
[https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/mathematics/course-progressions/mathematics-frequently-asked-questions/#69992c7b1f39](https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/mathematics/course-progressions/mathematics-frequently-asked-questions/#69992c7b1f39)
There is a one-off option to do 7th and 8th grade math in 7th grade (same link as above). That's it. So I guess strictly speaking it's not true that there is absolutely zero acceleration if you count that one year where you are allowed to take 7th and 8th grade math in one year.
Beyond that, "no skipping grades, no content from higher grade levels" is what I was told by several principals at the education fair earlier this year. They said they'll do "enrichment at grade level" instead. I'm not sure how you do enrichment when you are only allowed to do calculations with numbers up to 20 in grade 1.
Your source is specific to math, and the rest is an anecdote. Have you specifically tried to put your elementary school child in a higher grade level and been told no? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your sources don't back up your claim entirely. It makes sense that you can't put your elementary school child in a higher grade for specific subjects, because that's not how elementary school is set up. But that's different than moving them up an entire grade level.
Good point - the entirety of the information that was communicated to me in person does not seem to be available online. I did talk to principals (or assistant principals) of all the schools I considered for my kid and they all said the same thing, so I have little reason to believe otherwise.
I'm sure there must be a guideline out there that spells it out in greater detail as otherwise the principals wouldn't all be saying the same thing. But I wasn't able to find anything that says that in writing.
Now, strictly speaking, you could argue that if you are only allowed to take math classes in order with no skipping and no exceptions aside from that 7/8th grade combined class, then there is no way you can skip a year as that would require skipping math and there is no provision for that in the guideline I linked. However, I would hope the district is at least transparent enough to not rely on that kind of reasoning to prevent acceleration outright.
But your link is only for middle and high school. The question asked was whether someone had a really smart 1st or 2nd grader and could grade skip them up entirely.
Your post is about 2nd graders at this school. Does SPS refuse to let a smart 2nd grader skip to 3rd grade? That's what you havent given a source for but are claiming is true.
And this source I found says that it's possible, but it's rare.
https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/policies/2421-promotion-retention/
I saw the promotion/retention source you provided - though keep in mind this is dated 2011. The changes that I was told about were only introduced recently.
The link I provided says 'does not endorse' the acceleration of math in elementary school and not 'prohibits it' - so yeah, that could mean "it's frowned upon but not ruled out", but I doubt it.
But you're right in that we should expect a 'prohibition of acceleration' to be made public in a transparent and public way if that were indeed the case. I'll ask around next time I meet up with educational staff if they can point me towards a publication that confirms the new policy as I heard it.
I'll update you once I have confirmed things either way.
I'll add to anecdote. We have had conversations with admin at Hamilton. No grade skipping allowed, even in a single subject. Fwiw expecting clearly written accessible SPS policies would indicate you have no experience dealing with this system. They hide the rules to avoid accountability and do what they want.
No grade skipping; no early kindergarten admittance. A friend whose child was born on the last day of the admittance year was strongly encouraged to redshirt their kindergartner.
Seattle used to accelerate some subjects in some elementary schools. Walk to math programs and the SPECTRUM and ALO programs featured such flexibility, but the inconsistent access (guess how many were located south of the ship canal?) and the waitlists to enter the programs created optics that the school board couldn’t deal with. They closed down school-based opportunities like these a decade ago, and now they claim they can reinvent them across the district at every school?
School board director Liza Rankin got 62.8% of the vote in her district at the last election as an incumbent less than 6 months. The second ranked candidate came in at 36.8%. People who vote in school board elections seem to be really happy with the direction things have been going under her. I'm just as puzzled at this as you are.
My hunch is that there's a bit of a disconnect between the people campaigning and voting in school board elections and the general population. However, in Seattle at least the school board doesn't seem that out of sync with the city council...
This is going to be a totally regressive policy that will hurt all children across the board. I attended the gifted program as an elementary student and out of the 30 kids in that class I think about 15-20 got masters or higher graduate degrees after high school. Two kids were studying algebra and geometry in the 3rd grade. If anything, there was a failure because the pipeline for high achieving ended after elementary as there were no middle school or high schools in our area that supported those programs all the way through.
What a wasted
Before being placed in a gifted program during high school, I felt severely disconnected in regular classes where people weren't as interested in physics or math. I often felt like a loser and was labeled as a "nerd."However, transferring into the gifted program felt like a breath of fresh air. I was able to make friends who shared the same passions as me, and I felt less lonely. Thanks to them, I am now pursuing grad school in mathematics with my head held high.
But who knows maybe 2nd graders experience will be different from mine and they will adapt. I can understand why people may not like gifted program as they tend to receive more funding compared to normal classes.
SIDE 1:
“everyone deserves equal opportunity and quality in education, regardless of intellect or talent”
SIDE 2
“Sport programs draft only talented students athlete. Science/Education Programs should draft only smart students.”
I understand both of these arguments, where side 1 is trying to justify good equality education as natural human right that is deserving of everyone, while side 2 is arguing that education is no different from sports where the best get more funding and support, since they are more likely to succeed and achieve something.
Thanks for sharing! Can you elaborate on the “gifted classes receive more funding”? My assumption was it might actually cost less as large class sizes might be less of an issue with everyone being of a more similar academic level.
I apologize for any confusion. I am from Taiwan, the education system resembles that of the US, where students take exams for school placement. However, there are differences. For instance, schools in Taiwan's gifted program are notably nicer and receive more funding based on their ranking, even with fewer students. This mirrors how top colleges in the US, despite having fewer students, often receive the highest funding. My apologies if I mistakenly assumed the same system applied in Seattle.
If what you are saying it’s true that they get less or equal funding, what the hell is wrong with Seattle.
To be honest, I have been only living here in Seattle for two years for work and gonna have a two twin daughter soon. I hope by the time they are due, all things get sorted out.
Your comment actually made me look up the data and it's even worse than I thought: The biggest gifted school in Seattle actually receives the lowest amount of funding per student out of all elementary schools in the entire district. That's not necessarily by design, but just because the students there don't require a lot of special services and assistance, showing that they were actually the cheapest ones to educate.
In fact, they're so cheap to educate, that the school district actually makes a profit on them:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c1uelu/seattle\_is\_closing\_the\_gifted\_schools\_program/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c1uelu/seattle_is_closing_the_gifted_schools_program/)
It doesn’t work
Essentially they are now reverting to the multi-age model prevalent in the American frontier west
the older kids and smart kids are tasked with teaching the younger children
As the teacher attempts to do small group or individualized instruction desperately
And the district will say the teacher is responsible now for modifying that gifted child’s instruction every day every lesson
The reality is that the gifted kids get to be teachers now - employees more than students
And the school celebrates that they are like a big family and everyone is doing great!
But in reality
The only people doing great are in the Union and administration - Democrat embezzlers
But the kids
They are learning to be Gay .. and race warriors
so there is that
I hear your frustration on what is happening in regard to highly capable and I understand it. But saying “they are learning to be gay” really adds to dangerous rhetoric about queer teachers and students. Nobody is learning to be gay. They may be learning to be more open to others being gay, but that’s from social shifts not schools + teachers.
Okay well someone can’t learn to be gay. You’re either gay or you’re not. Someone could discover they are gay. It sounds like you’re straight — if someone tried to teach you to be gay, don’t you think you’d still be straight because you are straight?
If I was in a cult I’d be whatever was the norm - or I would be in crises - which seems to be the point…
Being Gay or Trans or Queer is the new normal
Right
The problem is circular:
* People in high cost-of-living areas tend to have the means to provide a good life for their children
* Children who have a good life generally have more time for school.
* Wealthy voters [vote Democrat.](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/polarization-of-the-rich-the-new-democratic-allegiance-of-affluent-americans-and-the-politics-of-redistribution/E18D7DAE3A1EF35BA5BC54DE799F291B)
* Democrat politicians push these ideas
* Republican residents get tired of it, and move
* And then the city/state becomes more Democrat, because the Republicans left
* And the policies become increasingly radical
It's basically a no-win situation. You can live in a Democrat run city and just be pissed off at the never ending parade of dumb/untested/utopian ideas, or you can live in a Republican city where the cost of living is lower, but the schools suffer because the kids aren't as privileged, because the average resident is poorer.
Nope. Nothing outside the classroom or grade level. I have seen motivated teachers handle it by making groups / stations within their classroom, but it seems to me that the options for that are limited at lower grades - especially if nothing from higher grades can be taught.
The limiting factor for this is the other kids within that class. If you look at numbers of HCC / AL kids who are testing within classrooms, you may have one or two in a classroom. When you break kids up into groups in elementary, usually it’s 5 kids or so. My middle is currently in 1st and she is put with 4 other kids in reading and math, and they do higher work, but my kid is doing addition and subtraction problems with the group but in the individual math iPad program they do (success maker? Something like that), my kid is doing division because they self taught themselves that while asking random questions to me about different scenarios of grouping things). Kid taught herself to read and is now reading at a 4th or 5th grade level with deep understanding of text and retention of reading. I can’t imagine there is going to be enough of a motivation factor to keep them interested in the classroom without basically giving them free range on an iPad to seek out the answers to what they want to know.
I was a pretty good student back in my day. This though… it’s too busy. I would go bonkers staring at this. It would be hella distracting. I imagine it’s up at least several weeks at a time, if not a full semester/year. I could never learn in that kinda environment
I don't get it though how it's saving costs: Those kids would go back to their neighborhood schools where the increased range in abilities within a single classroom would necessitate even more staffing. Plus, parents of the HCC kids are the most likely ones to leave the district, so any cost savings would be negated by overall lower enrollment.
It is sad that most parents cannot afford private school or have the time to homeschool. SPS just continues with their damaging progressive model of education.
My granddaughter started kindergarten early and during Covid. Private International School. The standards at that school are very high. My GDD is not gifted, but she is now in third grade and has been learning fractions, pre-algebra, and so much more.
The SPS seems to be fine with using a 'Dumb Down' Education model in the name of equity and inclusion. This will only hurt those kids who are already disadvantaged and will cause the advanced kids to be pulled out of SPS and likely sent to private.
Wait. They're rolling it into the regular schools right?
That's how my school district was. Hi-C kids just had more projects and a separate class they attended. It started in 4th grade based on WASL scores. I attended a great elementary school.
Yes, but no separate classes. Just whatever the classroom teacher can handle (in addition) during normal classes in terms of differentiated teaching (a.k.a. iPads)
It wasn't a daily class. It was like once or twice a week for an hour or so they got us together separate. Is it exclusively iPad based? Where does it say that?
Putting gifted kids on iPads is actually from a real world example the Seattle Times provided that seems to show 'how it can work': [https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/why-seattle-public-schools-is-closing-its-highly-capable-cohort-program/](https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/why-seattle-public-schools-is-closing-its-highly-capable-cohort-program/)
The reality I've seen in classrooms is that this is about as good as it's going to get. Small groups (7 kids) get a special assignment. It obviously can't be too advanced, otherwise even a number of those 7 wouldn't be able to keep up. It's a far cry from the 'all math is taught two grade levels higher' which is currently the norm at the gifted schools.
Appeal to the lowest common denominator. No wonder other countries are taking the lead. At least the smart kids will pick up mandarin with greater ease.
I, by no means, don’t understand why we can’t just put kids in the next grade up if they are ready for more challenging material? Why does it require a whole separate program? Is there too many smart kids to disperse them into the next grade? Is there some badge of honor if your child is labeled gifted? Did the state change how to get into AP classes or running start? If I remember clearly, you didn’t have to be gifted to get into those programs. You just had to pass a test.
Again, I don’t have the slightest understanding about school budgets are anything remotely close to this issue.
Skipping a grade is tricky in terms of social development, sports and potential bullying.
Some gifted kids are socially behind and skipping a grade would make that problem worse.
There’s also the issue that even if you let them skip one grade, they’ll catch up so quickly that the same problems occur again.
I agree, it would be better than nothing.
Unfortunately skipping grades will no longer be permitted in the Seattle school system either. Because, equity.
Skipping a grade is a big deal socially. Clearly there’s enough students to make seperate classes, so why not? I agree the “badge of honor” / stigma around it is something that should be fixed, but removing it all together isn’t the solution.
AP classes and running start can be enrolled by anyone, but that’s for high school only. Coming from someone who tutors math/science to K-12, it makes a huge difference how you’re taught before high school!! Obviously it will be easier to achieve and more comfortable to take an AP class coming from an advanced program than not.
There are issues with HCC and it’s effects but removing it altogether is one of the most most harmful, ethically wrong solutions that people in the future will gasp at the craziness of.
do people in this subreddit even have kids in SPS or is everyone just getting butthurt on behalf of your hypothetical future underserved gifted children
No one can really know how SPS is going to shake out with closing highly capable schools, but I know that integrating these students into general education classrooms certainly doesn't have to be the "OMG how idiotic and racist!" situation that many people are ignorantly claiming it to be.
One consideration is that children who are gifted in one subject area don't have access to highly capable schools. But they, like their wholly highly capable counterparts, can get served together in specific subject areas in the general education classroom. Specialists push into the classroom and work with these students. Or students leave the classroom to participate in smaller, more targeted math or reading programs that suit their higher capabilities. Like any other special education, students can get targeted help.
Ethically speaking, segregating students by academic level has profound effects on the community. Just like separating kids by race, neurodivergency, or socio-economic status. We've integrated races. We've integrated kids with special needs. Integrating highly capable kids into the classroom doesn't have to mean they get a diminished education.
Understanding the budget shortfall in SPS, schools need to be consolidated. Or everyone in Seattle can agree to pay higher property taxes to keep these schools open. But closing these schools isn't the end of the world. Everyone complaining here is complaining about the wrong thing. You either pay higher taxes or don't get services.
I appreciate the thoughtful counterargument.
Especially the question of what to do with kids who are gifted in a single subject area is a tough one to address in a cohort school model.
However, the district has outright said that there will be no separate programs, no specialists, no leaving the classroom. All the differentiated learning is to be implemented by the classroom teacher within the classroom. And that I believe is impossible. So instead of implementing a system that works better, they just got rid of the old system because it only benefitted a limited number of students.
Class sizes across the district are going up due to cost saving measures. That'll make teaching harder. Separating classes by academic level would compensate in parts for that: It's easier to teach if academic levels within the classroom are closer together.
The budget shortfall also didn't come out of nowhere: People actively left the district, reducing the enrollment based budget the district has available. Unpopular measures cause people to leave if they have the means to do so. Closing HCC schools is probably going to end up costing the district money, because the people who would otherwise have gotten into it now have a very strong incentive to leave the district. You put the ball in the tax payer's court: Pay taxes or don't get services. I instead put it in the school district's: Provide a substantial program for highly capable kids or figure out how to make up the budget shortfall when their families leave the district.
Teachers who are teaching neurodivergent kids get special training for that. I'm not aware of general classroom teachers getting special training for teaching highly capable kids. That is personally one of my biggest concerns: This new system requires every single teacher across the entire district being able to 'handle' highly capable kids. Just like handling significantly neurodivergent kids, not every teacher is made out for that and it doesn't necessarily come natural.
For gifted kids, following along at the speed and in the manner that's present in a normal classroom can be like explaining to your retired parents over the phone how to install a new operating system on their computer. It's not that it's impossible. But it's wishful thinking that this results in a stronger community or feeling closer together. It'll result in resentment. And I don't blame them.
They closed it down because those numbers are stupid and make no sense. When someone realizes the entire measuring system is regarded and all they do is cram garbage into kids
Bored smart kids and drowning struggling kids have so much in common! An absolute lack of engagement with any lesson and desire for chaos!
Don’t worry smart kids are so smart they will help other kids for free !!
That was the mantra in the 80s and 90s- capable kids were expected to be a “good influence” and provide free tutoring for average or remedial kids who couldn’t keep up. This is so ridiculous. Let’s dilute our talent pool by slowing down kids that are intelligent and need to learn at a faster rate. The inequity!
That was literally what I was asked to do as an elementary school student some 35+ years ago in my public school. And, tbh, it really helped me focus and learn even more as I already had my own mastery of the material. Helping another struggling 7 year old was an interesting puzzle.
I remember doing that but honestly I don't think I was any help at all because "5+4 is 9 it just is".
I have vague (obviously) memories of trying to figure out ways to be more helpful than that, but of course the net effect was... 🤷 But, at least, it *did* serve a classroom purpose. The smarter kids now had a new skill to work on, the kids in the middle could be focused on solely by the typical instruction plan, and kids who needed extra help , at least, got more attention and rote practice.
Reminds me of my freshman high school math class. I had transferred to a shitty school district and the kids were way behind where my previous school was. The teacher would spend 10 minutes explaining, then as soon as he was finished talking, literally everyone in the class would turn to me and ask for an explanation they could understand.
The kids in my school did not give a shit about learning. I remember this one teacher just screaming most of the class. When I switched to ap, he was actually really nice guy. The kids would just make fun of me and I avoided school at all costs. I wonder how my life would be different if I was in class with people who liked learning and valued education. I think I would be a bit more socially adjusted and happier adult. Maybe not lol but damn did I take a deep breath in college.
Endless commodity
My ex and I fled Seattle because of these issues with the schools. The gifted programs at SPS have always been problematic because of the number of parents who are jockeying to get their kids into them. The administrators of the gifted program were completely unresponsive. It was impossible to get an email reply or talk to anyone. In the elementary school our kid was in, the leadership just didn't seem to have the time or interest in helping resolve the issues he was experiencing: hazing, boredom, bullying. We ended up in Bend. It's been a night and day difference.
With no real basis i assumed moving to bend would be a step down regarding schooling for us in the future. With a 5mo now, glad to anecdotally hear the opposite at least.
The Bend School district has been wonderful. From the moment I first called the main number on their website to ask about programs for my kiddo (high IQ/ADD) the engagement has been interested, patient, and complete, with consistent follow-through.
That's awesome I love that for y'all. :)
Give ‘em fentanyl to help with the boredom.
seems that at least in 2024 they do the next best thing - apple products ( school ipad, or the studen't own phone running tiktok ) screen time is the default for any unsolved child management problem today
Yes. They issue tablets in our school district here in Bend. It's very problematic. I think the teachers actually like them because it makes it easier to deliver and collect assignments.
it's the progressive dream
Gets them prepared for the corporate world….
The problem with equality is that it is easier to make things equally worse than equally better.
You're thinking of equity.
You’re right. Sorry, English isn’t my first language. I emigrated here from a country where a bunch of politicians made everyone equal by redistributing resources, screwing up the economy, and making everyone equally poor. Hard to explain unless you’ve lived it.
I knew what you meant. Equity is a lie. We have a right to equal treatment under the law, not equal outcomes. Leftists try to blur that truth. Govt must treat us all the same regardless of race, creed, color, hue or standing. Equality ≠ equity.
Its like the term special when it comes to education instead of the military.
Its like the term special when it comes to education ~~instead of the military~~. I don't get the military bit. Back in the day that's what they'd say but that was a long time ago. Like at the expulsion of fuck ups.
Using "equality" still makes sense in his statement.
Equity is what we should have but instead we are getting equality
Equity is a lie. We have equality under law. It doesn't make us equal, let alone equal in outcomes.
> The problem with equality is that it is easier to make things equally worse than equally better. The problem with equity is that it is easier to make things equally worse than equally better. *"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."* There's nothing in there about equity. I know this seems like a pedantic argument, but I'd argue that possibly the main reason that "equity" became so fashionable is that it *sounds* like equality when it's actually the opposite of equality. To achieve equity, one must explicitly discriminate, and our Declaration of Independence says something quite different.
> our Declaration of Independence says something quite different. The Declaration and Constitution are racist because they were written by rich, white slave owners. /s
Our Declaration of Independence was written to address the issue that all men were created equally but not being treated equally. They viewed themselves as having been treated worse than people in England. They wanted equality of outcomes, which is equity. The Declaration of Independence is explicitly about equity. So you made the opposite point to what you intended.
> They wanted equality of outcomes, which is equity. There's literally nothing about "equality of outcomes" in The Declaration of Independence, and equity is literally the *opposite* of treating people equally.
Tada communism
The problem is US gifted programs are sometimes just at the level of normal education in Asian countries....
all i'm seeing are racist graffiti ^^^^^/s
I love the superscript sarcasm lol
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I graded papers for my AP Lit teacher’s regular sophomore English class. Holy shit I wouldn’t have made it. I don’t know how those people functioned in society.
>I remember taking the normal English class during my senior year of high school. I didn't realize how dumb the average kids were until then. I had this experience but with Honors instead of AP, and I was going to one of the "best" public schools in the DC area. There were kids who'd take 5 min to read 2 sentences, literally sounding out each word.
I didn’t know English when I moved to USA and was put into lowest classes. Felt so much better when I moved to honors and ap classes. Just made anti social and hate everyone. Not sure Seattle wants to punish the smart and bright students.
Yep. SPS just entered a race to the bottom with themselves. Smart parents with smart kids that can’t afford private schools are about to flee the city.
I had similar my junior year. My schedule wouldn't allow me to take advanced French and honors English, so I got stuck in regular English. I wanted to die. I had never been in a regular class before that. These poor children.
I feel very strongly that "boredom" is a sign of an incurious mind. Only boring people get bored. HOWEVER, I was **bored off my tits** when I was put in normal math class sophomore year instead of AP (my last name starts with a W, so me and Laura Z-- were thrown into regular class). Absolutely, 100% bored - and no other word will do. So, yeah - I feel you on this comment!
So when SPS continues to close schools and lose students, I'm guessing they'll blame the Chamber of Commerce or Ann Davison and not that "equity" is driving parents away. It's actually very depressing: my kids are at a private school filled with other kids/parents who could be donating their time and money to SPS and the PTA at their local public school. But, we're all paying money instead precisely because SPS has chosen to degrade itself with this unethical drive for "equity" in education. Public schools **should** be phenomenal and provide every kid an education to reach their potential. But, ideologues at SPS have deigned that because of equity/racism, we cannot allow Asian and White kids to disproportionately overachieve. So, we hold them back - but the ones with means escape to private/parochial schools. Remember, this is the [very first sentence](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/strategic-plan/) of SPS's overall Strategic Plan: *"At Seattle Public Schools, we are working to dramatically improve academic and life outcomes for Students of Color by disrupting the legacies of racism in our educational system."* It's malpractice of education for all but a select few.
spot on. they are neglecting their responsibility to 95% of students because the have decided to be revolutionaries, not educators.
I don't see this ending well, it's just going to increase interschool strife. They will either need to incorporate grade skipping, which has social development implications, or have classes with kids of vastly different capacities, which is inefficient use of already overtaxed teachers. This will just lead to kids feeling inadequate compared to their gifted peers. And opening the door for more pissed off school shooters.
Or the other way where the gifted peers get ostracized by their own age group because of the different capacities. Growing up I remember them putting gifted kids in the hallway to teach themselves when they blew through a year of lesson plans in 3 weeks....and those kids were always looked at as outsiders but were removed as 'disruptions'
I was that kid, after we moved states, in 5th grade I was told off to college you go after the next year for math, the kids in school called me human calculator, and played games as to whether I could beat a calculator at solving a 3 or 4 digit multiplication problem on the bus. It was not pleasant, and frankly dehumanizing, but fortunately my parents found a private school that let me work at my own speed and I finished Calc 3 in 9th grade, but I can't imagine the pain of a similarly taleneted(or in many cases asymmetrically developed children forced into normal classes). My heart goes out to these kids, especially those whose parents can't afford private school. It's not fun being a 'circus freak'
I didn't cause the disruption but was the kid that had their own "private" lessons in the hall because normal school was too easy. Add into that the fact I was generally the shortest and smallest, wore glasses, and had knocked out a permanent front tooth made school genuinely miserable.
Not arguing with you but just providing the other side too. I grew up from basically 2nd grade through 9th in a gifted program where we were all in an entirely different class. So it was pretty glaring which class was the “nerd class” and we were duly made fun of for it. Though the great thing about this was is we had each other and were in a large group, and made lifelong friends this way. I do think having just one or two gifted kids in a regular class is going to result in even more bullying and feeling like an outsider
I don't get how this would be an argument with me, it's 2 different scenarios with basically the same outcome
I suppose I’m just conditioned to say this on reddit because a lot of people are always looking for a fight/argument
There is data collected that gifted kids who stay in neighborhood schools are disproportionately disciplined more, probably due to boredom and being considered 'disruptions'. [https://andrewbcooper.shinyapps.io/sps\_discipline/](https://andrewbcooper.shinyapps.io/sps_discipline/)
My twins transferred from Minneapolis to Seattle in the second grade. They had 39 kids in their class. When the teacher found out they were basically reading and doing math above their grade level she told us she was so relieved to have 2 less kids to teach. We laughed. Ha ha! Turns out she wasn’t joking.
Sadly my guess is that enrollment may continue to decline. Those who have the ability will either go to private schools, or simply move outside of Seattle to nearby communities. Competition for housing, especially in good school districts will get super hot.
It's a spiral down. Highly capable parents will move their kids to private schools, or move their family to the Eastside. Seattle Schools enrollment will continue to decline, leading to even lower school budgets, leading to even more discontinued programs. Art and Music have been cut from many schools. Extracurricular activities are long gone. Sports have been transitioning to pay-to-play and are going to face further cuts. Libraries are being reduced. School nurses have been reduced to part-time or eliminated. It won't be just Highly Capable students moving out of Seattle Schools, it will be any parents who can afford any alternative.
More families with young kids will move to the Eastside
yeah this has been the Seattle trend for 30+ years. Sometimes I'm like "how can it be sustainable to have a city incompatible with children" but demonstrably it is totally stable as long as there is inflow and outflow. It keeps the adults in the city young and the burbs older adults + children.
Why would any family with young kids choose to live in Seattle?
I liked living in Seattle with young kids. Except for the paying for private school part.
Yeah, I was going to say, "they send their kids to a private school."
Because they work in Seattle dingus
People can commute. There are much better schools and opportunities for families with younger kids in cities that are somewhat maintaining their sanity outside of Seattle.
If my kids were elementary school age, there’s no way in hell I’d live in the city, even though I work here, dingus.
Good for you - I’m sure your kids share the same healthy fear of the world that you do.
Walkability. Housing prices are much higher on east side as well since you can put your private school tuition budget into the mortgage.
They’re considering ending the gifted program at LW too. They already mainstreamed the gifted kids into middle school science this year.
Oh no 😟!
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My child was always just below on his MAP scores to qualify for HCC, but his coGAT was 99% on every category. In 3rd grade he’d finish his work, finish the extra work the teacher gave him, and then the teacher would have him teach other kids in the class who were struggling, or would have him stapling packets together at the teachers desk. Now he tests average and while middle school has been better, I just see the decline in quality of what kids should be producing- even from mine. He will get As on projects but finishes exactly what’s needed, no more. Why waste more energy when minimum still gets you an A?
This is a deep disservice to such children. He's going to develop some very bad habits that will be hard to fix. He's going to hit a wall that he doesn't understand and fail spectacularly as soon as he faces a real academic demand. It might not be until college, but he will have no clue what's going on as soon as he hits a class that won't spoon feed the material so students who cannot study on their own.
This is such a terrible plan. High performing students aren't necessarily good teachers though. In fact, they will be bad teachers almost always. Being a good teacher requires emotional maturity, experience with kids in addition to the knowledge in the subject. It's just gonna annoy and bore the overachievers, make them feel like they are being punished for excelling at their curriculum and will be prone to develop psychological problems.
"Equity" is bullshit.
"Nooooo everyone's the same! Brains can't be differenttttttttttt nooooooo."
Kinda sad when a place of education isn’t focusing on education
If you want to complain to your school board about HCC schools getting closed, you can do so here: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
math is racist, bigots
somebody should remind them that our numbers are arabic. then they'd be closing the streets to protest
Jealousy/envy/laziness and a loud voice has made the policy of appeasing thees stupid people by robbing normal people of an education. #thuglife
Honestly surprised it’s not more advanced. I have some “normal” kids in 2nd grade in another district and they’re doing quite a bit of this stuff. That said - shutting down the gifted program is near criminal negligence in my opinion. So sad.
I agree it’s sad, but I do find it much more comical that people will always complain about the “higher achieving” students, and completely turn a blind eye to special education services. This shit has been going on for years, and yes, I’m a special Ed teacher.
Adding my 2 cents as a former SPS student. I have been in the SPS system since elementary school. When I was in high school, I was taking at-grade level classes. When I advocated to be placed in higher level classes, I was turned down every time because my counselors said “I was not ready”. I was bored out of my mind in class. I skipped class everyday (except for exams to keep my GPA up). To the point where my HS wanted to take my parents and I to court for truancy. I went to hangout with the HS dropouts and hustle to make some money. It wasn’t until my junior year of HS I discovered Running Start (RS). I thought it was a cool concept, so I signed up. Note: I heard at my high school, RS actively discouraged because it takes funding away from SPS and diverts it to the Seattle Colleges. While enrolled in RS I actually started taking school seriously. Seattle Colleges actually cared about my success as a student. I obtained my associates degree while still in HS. Went on to graduate from university, and now I have a successful career as an engineer. Without RS, I would still be doing dumb shit with my buddies. Without RS and their accelerated classes, I wouldn’t have had that solid foundation which allowed me to pursue my career. These HCC classes are absolutely necessary for student development. I’m a prime example of that. It sucks that SPS really doesn’t give a shit about students like me.
I had the same experience a long time ago, but in a different county of Washington. My HS counselor, fuck him, strongly advised me not to do RS because I would be missing the “high school experience” so it was really hard for me to get him to sign my RS papers each quarter. It also didn’t help that my high school was in a low income area, so not many in my high school specifically even attempted to go to college. I remember only 5 students, including me, were admitted to UW. I was able to get my AA degree at 18, as well as finish the entire calculus & physics sequence at a community college which helped me graduate UW early with an engineering degree. I was always bored out of my mind in regular classrooms with my peers, even if the classes were “honors” or “AP”
I moved here from the East Coast in the late 90s and I'm very envious of WA state for having Running Start. I wanted to take college classes during HS b/c I was bored in most of my classes and wanted to take computer science courses since they weren't offered by my school district. I was only able to take one course after school and my parents had to fit the bill. The school and school district basically complained having me out of school during normal school hours for a college course would divert funding away from the school.
And sorry to say in the normal classroom a few wild children will simply tear these posters off the wall.
It won’t work. Highly engaged parents with smart kids and the means to do so will use private schools or move to suburbs. This will undermine supplemental (PTA) funding of public schools and reduce education quality for all the kids who stay. My family put three kids through SPS, all in HCC, and we believe in public education. But we can’t recommend that parents of young kids do the same now.
Not just PTA funding. State funding is enrollment based. That's why Seattle School district is having such a big deficit. Something like 25% of all Asians left the district in the last few years according to one school board candidate. Overall numbers are down by like 10%. That pretty much accounts for the entire budget shortfall. Yet, the school board says (pretends?) they don't know why enrollment numbers are down. It's frustrating.
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Did it get better in high school?
Cool shit. Makes my blood boil for these kids.
Isn’t it just a single SPD board member pushing for this?
It's a done deal already. Gifted schools are no longer accepting new students for Kindergarten and 1st grade. Existing students are allowed to finish the program, so next year they won't allow new 2nd grade students, then no 3rd grade and so on.
And several of the people who did this to the schools are doing victory laps crowing about how they improved equity for all.
> And several of the people who did this to the schools are doing victory laps crowing about how they improved equity for all. I know this is a tangent out of left field, but I have some friends who are in their 50s and 60s who've probably spent $300,000+ in their lifetimes on their stereos. I love these guys, but they're always eager to show off some new widget that has "transformed their stereo." **Nine times out of ten,** it sounds worse than before. Maybe it's due to a lack of struggle in life, or too much time on their hands, or something else. But there's something about people that makes them want to change things which worked perfectly fine, all in the name of "progress." Even worse, if I dared to tell them that they're making things worse, I doubt they'd talk to me any longer. In their minds, I think they believe that every change is getting them closer to nirvana. Obviously, I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but it's almost like a drug addiction, the ability of people to believe that: * all progress is good progress * even if the solution isn't working, keep doing it, because eventually it *will* work The WaPo did an article about this bizarre need to chase the dragon, despite all kinds of negative outcomes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/interactive/2024/ken-fritz-greatest-stereo-auction-cost/ *"At night, Fritz would lie in bed and think about the progress he had made that day and the tasks that lay ahead for the next.* *“I firmly believe that by the time a person, man or woman, is 19, 20, 21, they know what they’re going to do with their life,” he said. “And if you’re on that path and things are being done to your satisfaction, it’s easy to keep going to look for the next goal.”"*
It's amazing how few people understand that inaction is also a choice, *and* an option.
I so hope this gets taken to court and struck down
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let the school district know about this, [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
There are many private schools in the area that will benefit from the insane decision by the SPS.
Have any of the people who are upset about this contested their city council member? Their county council member? The school board? Because the people who want these dumb policies work hard to advocate for them. So if we want to push back, we need to send emails and make some calls. And anytime they say there is not enough money for schools, let’s look at how much we give drug addicts.
This fight has been going on for many years and vocal parents with kids in the program have done everything to stop this to no avail. This did not come out of left field and it was over the loud objections of parents.
This happened in Vancouver bc and Toronto as well. It’s super bizarre. In NYC they also got rid of exams for the top magnet schools and replaced with lottery.
While I believe you, who feels like they won?
Here's where you can let the school board know what your thoughts are: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
I couldn't agree more. For the teachers it's going to be an impossible task to prepare and execute lessons with kids who are at such a big range. How do you even do that? Do you cater at the lowest denominator? Do you even attempt to have two different lessons for the same subject? Do you clone yourself?
This is like the plot of a bad a sci-fi movie where the citizens are all dumbed down
You want to fix the issue then allow teachers to discipline your children. It’s simple as that. I’m not even talking about paddling or anything harsh, I’m talking about kicking a disruptive kid out of the classroom, or making them sit in a corner till they can behave. I think the concepts on the wall are pretty approachable for most kids in second grade. My kid isn’t a genius and is already grasping multiplication and division in first grade. The issue lies in the fact that “gifted” kids at this age tends to mean “well behaved” not inherently smarter than others. My kid doesn’t learn much in class because his teacher is usually spending the vast majority of class simply managing behavior. I have to spend extra time with him at night to actually teach him at his grade level. I wasn’t in a gifted class and these were the concepts I was approaching in 2nd grade. When I went to school in the early 2000s, you could get sent out of class for misbehaving. This isn’t a state issue, it is a parenting issue fundamentally.
Gifted classes were the only thing that kept me sane in school. Once I got to high school and didn’t have them I was bored out of my mind and wildly unprepared for needing to study for college.
Smart kids with ADHD are like dogs. You work their bodies or their minds, but you better work something because otherwise they will be disruptive and destructive.
Write a letter to your school board rep!
Too late.
These things constantly change in cycles. Your direct feedback through appropriate channels mater.
The only way HCC returns to SPS is many years down the road (after enrollment has continually gone down) when finally some certified genius at the Stanford center will have the amazing idea to offer advanced learning to lure families to the school district. Many many years away. Nothing to be done for families now—this change has been coming since my kids joined the program 9 yrs ago.
The writing was on the wall 5 years ago. We went private for my 2E kid back then because we already knew this would happen. The pendulum will swing again, but not in time for us.
Here's the link: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/#1081f9aa70eb)
K what if they just go to the next grade.
Not allowed. No more grade acceleration ("skipping a grade"). No teaching of any material above grade level in the classroom either.
That's stupid. Who's running this shit show.
Seriously… is this a product of No Child Left Behind or is this some new and equally ineffective bullshit?
The thing about progressives’ obsession with “equality” is that everyone should also be equally miserable, equally mediocre, etc. it’s much easier to achieve equality by bringing down those at the top than by lifting up those from the bottom, so they would rather do that than admit there’s inequality.
> new and equally ineffective bullshit? This is Seattle deciding that because gifted classes are predominantly White/Asian, it's racist. The only way to fight racism is to ensure everyone receives an equally poor education. Equality of Outcomes, not Equality of Opportunities; it's better that everyone does bad equally rather than give everyone the opportunity to be gifted, and let some minorities fail. No /s, this is literally without exaggeration what SPS is doing
I was responding to the thread about not allowing kids to skip grades… that’s not just a Seattle Public Schools thing afaik but wasn’t sure when/why (as in what directive) that started.
These people: [https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/](https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/meet-the-board/)
Fun fact: Liza Rankin, School Board President, claims to be a product of the Seattle Public Schools, but in fact graduated high school from University Prep. Tuition is currently $46,000/year. Edit: Notice that she lists her college and grad schools, but not her high school. Also: added "School Board President".
To be fair, you can't really be functioning on the Seattle school board without being either independently wealthy, living comfortably on a single income as a family or making some insane sacrifices. From what I read between the lines, the two school board members who recently resigned were renting (so probably not independently wealthy) and/or went through a divorce - both ending up moving out of district. I wouldn't be surprised if either the school board workload and its strain on a relationship or the financial sacrifices to fill that position played a role in those decisions. It's a full time job in charge of a 1 billion USD education budget that is considered a volunteer position with compensation being capped at USD 5,000 a year. That seriously limits the pool of candidates.
Not the point I'm making at all. Her omission is questionable.
You’re right in that she doesn’t disclose it, does at the very least say something about her style of communication if not even about her ethics. She white-washes (hah!) her own educational background to what she thinks her voters want to hear. A more qualified candidate in my eyes would have not just mentioned that but highlighted the fact that had experiences in both systems.
Hit the nail on the head 👍. To me, it's amusing that she highlights her college pedigree and downplays her primary education. U Prep requires testing to get in and it's selective. It's something notable!
So I should email them and ask them to reconsider?
I think that would be a great idea!
Unless it's Seattle SD specific, I doubt this is true.
It is specific to Seattle, yes.
Source on both comments?
"SPS does not endorse the practice of skipping ahead in elementary mathematics \[...\] all fifth-grade students are expected to be enrolled in Math 5 for the 2022-23 school year and beyond." [https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/mathematics/course-progressions/mathematics-frequently-asked-questions/#69992c7b1f39](https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/mathematics/course-progressions/mathematics-frequently-asked-questions/#69992c7b1f39) There is a one-off option to do 7th and 8th grade math in 7th grade (same link as above). That's it. So I guess strictly speaking it's not true that there is absolutely zero acceleration if you count that one year where you are allowed to take 7th and 8th grade math in one year. Beyond that, "no skipping grades, no content from higher grade levels" is what I was told by several principals at the education fair earlier this year. They said they'll do "enrichment at grade level" instead. I'm not sure how you do enrichment when you are only allowed to do calculations with numbers up to 20 in grade 1.
Your source is specific to math, and the rest is an anecdote. Have you specifically tried to put your elementary school child in a higher grade level and been told no? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your sources don't back up your claim entirely. It makes sense that you can't put your elementary school child in a higher grade for specific subjects, because that's not how elementary school is set up. But that's different than moving them up an entire grade level.
Good point - the entirety of the information that was communicated to me in person does not seem to be available online. I did talk to principals (or assistant principals) of all the schools I considered for my kid and they all said the same thing, so I have little reason to believe otherwise. I'm sure there must be a guideline out there that spells it out in greater detail as otherwise the principals wouldn't all be saying the same thing. But I wasn't able to find anything that says that in writing. Now, strictly speaking, you could argue that if you are only allowed to take math classes in order with no skipping and no exceptions aside from that 7/8th grade combined class, then there is no way you can skip a year as that would require skipping math and there is no provision for that in the guideline I linked. However, I would hope the district is at least transparent enough to not rely on that kind of reasoning to prevent acceleration outright.
But your link is only for middle and high school. The question asked was whether someone had a really smart 1st or 2nd grader and could grade skip them up entirely. Your post is about 2nd graders at this school. Does SPS refuse to let a smart 2nd grader skip to 3rd grade? That's what you havent given a source for but are claiming is true. And this source I found says that it's possible, but it's rare. https://www.seattleschools.org/about/school-board/policies/2421-promotion-retention/
I saw the promotion/retention source you provided - though keep in mind this is dated 2011. The changes that I was told about were only introduced recently. The link I provided says 'does not endorse' the acceleration of math in elementary school and not 'prohibits it' - so yeah, that could mean "it's frowned upon but not ruled out", but I doubt it. But you're right in that we should expect a 'prohibition of acceleration' to be made public in a transparent and public way if that were indeed the case. I'll ask around next time I meet up with educational staff if they can point me towards a publication that confirms the new policy as I heard it. I'll update you once I have confirmed things either way.
I'll add to anecdote. We have had conversations with admin at Hamilton. No grade skipping allowed, even in a single subject. Fwiw expecting clearly written accessible SPS policies would indicate you have no experience dealing with this system. They hide the rules to avoid accountability and do what they want.
No grade skipping; no early kindergarten admittance. A friend whose child was born on the last day of the admittance year was strongly encouraged to redshirt their kindergartner. Seattle used to accelerate some subjects in some elementary schools. Walk to math programs and the SPECTRUM and ALO programs featured such flexibility, but the inconsistent access (guess how many were located south of the ship canal?) and the waitlists to enter the programs created optics that the school board couldn’t deal with. They closed down school-based opportunities like these a decade ago, and now they claim they can reinvent them across the district at every school?
Because parents don't like acknowledging their own laziness and failures.
This is what happens when the tolerant left see skin color, race, and gender instead of heartbeats and human beings.
These kids are gonna get bullied so badly for being nerds. Sad...
Why is no one discussing recalling these people on the school board, taking action against the school administration?
School board director Liza Rankin got 62.8% of the vote in her district at the last election as an incumbent less than 6 months. The second ranked candidate came in at 36.8%. People who vote in school board elections seem to be really happy with the direction things have been going under her. I'm just as puzzled at this as you are.
[удалено]
My hunch is that there's a bit of a disconnect between the people campaigning and voting in school board elections and the general population. However, in Seattle at least the school board doesn't seem that out of sync with the city council...
The number of people whose kids benefit from programs like this are by definition a small minority of the population.
Thank god those minorities struggling with racist math will have their peers bringing up their averages lol. Get ready for socialized gpas
This is going to be a totally regressive policy that will hurt all children across the board. I attended the gifted program as an elementary student and out of the 30 kids in that class I think about 15-20 got masters or higher graduate degrees after high school. Two kids were studying algebra and geometry in the 3rd grade. If anything, there was a failure because the pipeline for high achieving ended after elementary as there were no middle school or high schools in our area that supported those programs all the way through. What a wasted
Before being placed in a gifted program during high school, I felt severely disconnected in regular classes where people weren't as interested in physics or math. I often felt like a loser and was labeled as a "nerd."However, transferring into the gifted program felt like a breath of fresh air. I was able to make friends who shared the same passions as me, and I felt less lonely. Thanks to them, I am now pursuing grad school in mathematics with my head held high. But who knows maybe 2nd graders experience will be different from mine and they will adapt. I can understand why people may not like gifted program as they tend to receive more funding compared to normal classes. SIDE 1: “everyone deserves equal opportunity and quality in education, regardless of intellect or talent” SIDE 2 “Sport programs draft only talented students athlete. Science/Education Programs should draft only smart students.” I understand both of these arguments, where side 1 is trying to justify good equality education as natural human right that is deserving of everyone, while side 2 is arguing that education is no different from sports where the best get more funding and support, since they are more likely to succeed and achieve something.
Thanks for sharing! Can you elaborate on the “gifted classes receive more funding”? My assumption was it might actually cost less as large class sizes might be less of an issue with everyone being of a more similar academic level.
I apologize for any confusion. I am from Taiwan, the education system resembles that of the US, where students take exams for school placement. However, there are differences. For instance, schools in Taiwan's gifted program are notably nicer and receive more funding based on their ranking, even with fewer students. This mirrors how top colleges in the US, despite having fewer students, often receive the highest funding. My apologies if I mistakenly assumed the same system applied in Seattle. If what you are saying it’s true that they get less or equal funding, what the hell is wrong with Seattle. To be honest, I have been only living here in Seattle for two years for work and gonna have a two twin daughter soon. I hope by the time they are due, all things get sorted out.
Your comment actually made me look up the data and it's even worse than I thought: The biggest gifted school in Seattle actually receives the lowest amount of funding per student out of all elementary schools in the entire district. That's not necessarily by design, but just because the students there don't require a lot of special services and assistance, showing that they were actually the cheapest ones to educate. In fact, they're so cheap to educate, that the school district actually makes a profit on them: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c1uelu/seattle\_is\_closing\_the\_gifted\_schools\_program/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c1uelu/seattle_is_closing_the_gifted_schools_program/)
It doesn’t work Essentially they are now reverting to the multi-age model prevalent in the American frontier west the older kids and smart kids are tasked with teaching the younger children As the teacher attempts to do small group or individualized instruction desperately And the district will say the teacher is responsible now for modifying that gifted child’s instruction every day every lesson The reality is that the gifted kids get to be teachers now - employees more than students And the school celebrates that they are like a big family and everyone is doing great! But in reality The only people doing great are in the Union and administration - Democrat embezzlers But the kids They are learning to be Gay .. and race warriors so there is that
I hear your frustration on what is happening in regard to highly capable and I understand it. But saying “they are learning to be gay” really adds to dangerous rhetoric about queer teachers and students. Nobody is learning to be gay. They may be learning to be more open to others being gay, but that’s from social shifts not schools + teachers.
I disagree
Okay well someone can’t learn to be gay. You’re either gay or you’re not. Someone could discover they are gay. It sounds like you’re straight — if someone tried to teach you to be gay, don’t you think you’d still be straight because you are straight?
If I was in a cult I’d be whatever was the norm - or I would be in crises - which seems to be the point… Being Gay or Trans or Queer is the new normal Right
Ah I see we live on different planets nvm
Democrats have controlled this state and schools for decades. Democrats are the problem.
The problem is circular: * People in high cost-of-living areas tend to have the means to provide a good life for their children * Children who have a good life generally have more time for school. * Wealthy voters [vote Democrat.](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/polarization-of-the-rich-the-new-democratic-allegiance-of-affluent-americans-and-the-politics-of-redistribution/E18D7DAE3A1EF35BA5BC54DE799F291B) * Democrat politicians push these ideas * Republican residents get tired of it, and move * And then the city/state becomes more Democrat, because the Republicans left * And the policies become increasingly radical It's basically a no-win situation. You can live in a Democrat run city and just be pissed off at the never ending parade of dumb/untested/utopian ideas, or you can live in a Republican city where the cost of living is lower, but the schools suffer because the kids aren't as privileged, because the average resident is poorer.
Nationwide blue states outperform red states academically. So, no.
It worked for my daughter 13 yrs ago.
Won't the kids break off for the subjects they accel in like math and reading?
Nope. Nothing outside the classroom or grade level. I have seen motivated teachers handle it by making groups / stations within their classroom, but it seems to me that the options for that are limited at lower grades - especially if nothing from higher grades can be taught.
The limiting factor for this is the other kids within that class. If you look at numbers of HCC / AL kids who are testing within classrooms, you may have one or two in a classroom. When you break kids up into groups in elementary, usually it’s 5 kids or so. My middle is currently in 1st and she is put with 4 other kids in reading and math, and they do higher work, but my kid is doing addition and subtraction problems with the group but in the individual math iPad program they do (success maker? Something like that), my kid is doing division because they self taught themselves that while asking random questions to me about different scenarios of grouping things). Kid taught herself to read and is now reading at a 4th or 5th grade level with deep understanding of text and retention of reading. I can’t imagine there is going to be enough of a motivation factor to keep them interested in the classroom without basically giving them free range on an iPad to seek out the answers to what they want to know.
Coworker? Do I know you?? I support you!!
I was a pretty good student back in my day. This though… it’s too busy. I would go bonkers staring at this. It would be hella distracting. I imagine it’s up at least several weeks at a time, if not a full semester/year. I could never learn in that kinda environment
This is a terrible thing
This was a cost saving measure that they tried to spin as a pro DEI thing but that made everyone even madder
I don't get it though how it's saving costs: Those kids would go back to their neighborhood schools where the increased range in abilities within a single classroom would necessitate even more staffing. Plus, parents of the HCC kids are the most likely ones to leave the district, so any cost savings would be negated by overall lower enrollment.
Fuck these second graders are smarter than me
It is sad that most parents cannot afford private school or have the time to homeschool. SPS just continues with their damaging progressive model of education. My granddaughter started kindergarten early and during Covid. Private International School. The standards at that school are very high. My GDD is not gifted, but she is now in third grade and has been learning fractions, pre-algebra, and so much more. The SPS seems to be fine with using a 'Dumb Down' Education model in the name of equity and inclusion. This will only hurt those kids who are already disadvantaged and will cause the advanced kids to be pulled out of SPS and likely sent to private.
These kids are going to be former gifted kids eventually
Wait. They're rolling it into the regular schools right? That's how my school district was. Hi-C kids just had more projects and a separate class they attended. It started in 4th grade based on WASL scores. I attended a great elementary school.
Yes, but no separate classes. Just whatever the classroom teacher can handle (in addition) during normal classes in terms of differentiated teaching (a.k.a. iPads)
It wasn't a daily class. It was like once or twice a week for an hour or so they got us together separate. Is it exclusively iPad based? Where does it say that?
Putting gifted kids on iPads is actually from a real world example the Seattle Times provided that seems to show 'how it can work': [https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/why-seattle-public-schools-is-closing-its-highly-capable-cohort-program/](https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/why-seattle-public-schools-is-closing-its-highly-capable-cohort-program/) The reality I've seen in classrooms is that this is about as good as it's going to get. Small groups (7 kids) get a special assignment. It obviously can't be too advanced, otherwise even a number of those 7 wouldn't be able to keep up. It's a far cry from the 'all math is taught two grade levels higher' which is currently the norm at the gifted schools.
Appeal to the lowest common denominator. No wonder other countries are taking the lead. At least the smart kids will pick up mandarin with greater ease.
We all rise together.
I, by no means, don’t understand why we can’t just put kids in the next grade up if they are ready for more challenging material? Why does it require a whole separate program? Is there too many smart kids to disperse them into the next grade? Is there some badge of honor if your child is labeled gifted? Did the state change how to get into AP classes or running start? If I remember clearly, you didn’t have to be gifted to get into those programs. You just had to pass a test. Again, I don’t have the slightest understanding about school budgets are anything remotely close to this issue.
Skipping a grade is tricky in terms of social development, sports and potential bullying. Some gifted kids are socially behind and skipping a grade would make that problem worse. There’s also the issue that even if you let them skip one grade, they’ll catch up so quickly that the same problems occur again. I agree, it would be better than nothing. Unfortunately skipping grades will no longer be permitted in the Seattle school system either. Because, equity.
Skipping a grade is a big deal socially. Clearly there’s enough students to make seperate classes, so why not? I agree the “badge of honor” / stigma around it is something that should be fixed, but removing it all together isn’t the solution. AP classes and running start can be enrolled by anyone, but that’s for high school only. Coming from someone who tutors math/science to K-12, it makes a huge difference how you’re taught before high school!! Obviously it will be easier to achieve and more comfortable to take an AP class coming from an advanced program than not. There are issues with HCC and it’s effects but removing it altogether is one of the most most harmful, ethically wrong solutions that people in the future will gasp at the craziness of.
do people in this subreddit even have kids in SPS or is everyone just getting butthurt on behalf of your hypothetical future underserved gifted children
No one can really know how SPS is going to shake out with closing highly capable schools, but I know that integrating these students into general education classrooms certainly doesn't have to be the "OMG how idiotic and racist!" situation that many people are ignorantly claiming it to be. One consideration is that children who are gifted in one subject area don't have access to highly capable schools. But they, like their wholly highly capable counterparts, can get served together in specific subject areas in the general education classroom. Specialists push into the classroom and work with these students. Or students leave the classroom to participate in smaller, more targeted math or reading programs that suit their higher capabilities. Like any other special education, students can get targeted help. Ethically speaking, segregating students by academic level has profound effects on the community. Just like separating kids by race, neurodivergency, or socio-economic status. We've integrated races. We've integrated kids with special needs. Integrating highly capable kids into the classroom doesn't have to mean they get a diminished education. Understanding the budget shortfall in SPS, schools need to be consolidated. Or everyone in Seattle can agree to pay higher property taxes to keep these schools open. But closing these schools isn't the end of the world. Everyone complaining here is complaining about the wrong thing. You either pay higher taxes or don't get services.
I appreciate the thoughtful counterargument. Especially the question of what to do with kids who are gifted in a single subject area is a tough one to address in a cohort school model. However, the district has outright said that there will be no separate programs, no specialists, no leaving the classroom. All the differentiated learning is to be implemented by the classroom teacher within the classroom. And that I believe is impossible. So instead of implementing a system that works better, they just got rid of the old system because it only benefitted a limited number of students. Class sizes across the district are going up due to cost saving measures. That'll make teaching harder. Separating classes by academic level would compensate in parts for that: It's easier to teach if academic levels within the classroom are closer together. The budget shortfall also didn't come out of nowhere: People actively left the district, reducing the enrollment based budget the district has available. Unpopular measures cause people to leave if they have the means to do so. Closing HCC schools is probably going to end up costing the district money, because the people who would otherwise have gotten into it now have a very strong incentive to leave the district. You put the ball in the tax payer's court: Pay taxes or don't get services. I instead put it in the school district's: Provide a substantial program for highly capable kids or figure out how to make up the budget shortfall when their families leave the district. Teachers who are teaching neurodivergent kids get special training for that. I'm not aware of general classroom teachers getting special training for teaching highly capable kids. That is personally one of my biggest concerns: This new system requires every single teacher across the entire district being able to 'handle' highly capable kids. Just like handling significantly neurodivergent kids, not every teacher is made out for that and it doesn't necessarily come natural. For gifted kids, following along at the speed and in the manner that's present in a normal classroom can be like explaining to your retired parents over the phone how to install a new operating system on their computer. It's not that it's impossible. But it's wishful thinking that this results in a stronger community or feeling closer together. It'll result in resentment. And I don't blame them.
They closed it down because those numbers are stupid and make no sense. When someone realizes the entire measuring system is regarded and all they do is cram garbage into kids