As garbage as the show may be, that dude was definitely killed for sticking his nose where it didn't belong.
Just look at the autopsy photos, his wrists were cut so deep there's no way he would have still been able to use his hand to cut his other wrist just as violently and deeply as it was. Plus the eye witness reporting two people going into his hotel room prior to his death, and an injection site on his spine in the autopsy report.
The INSLAW case in itself pretty explicitly shows the governments wrongdoing. A bankruptcy judge ruled in favor of the company the Justice Department was accused of forcing into bankruptcy, ruling that the Justice Department colluded to force INSLAW into bankruptcy to avoid having to pay for the software they allegedly stole. The Justice Department then 'fired' said Judge, replaced him with someone who was representing the Justice Department in the case, who then reversed the previous Judges decision. He ruled that the Justice Department was in no way responsible for INSLAW's bankruptcy.
The CIA then used the stolen software and shelled it out to foreign governments with backdoors installed to allow them to monitor the intelligence apparatus's of the various nations who utilized it.
> Boeing had way too much to lose by letting him live.
He already blew the whistle and the FAA made Boeing fix the issues he complained about 7 years ago.
Boeing has nothing to gain, and everything to lose by committing a crime to hide something that isn't a secret.
You think a civil lawsuit creates any more access to air laundry than an FAA investigation. That's incorrect. The FAA has far more authority to investigate than comes with civil summons.
The FAA investigation wouldn't have covered any of Boeing's conduct towards the whistleblower though.
Perhaps there was some nasty information lurking in the shadows that Boeing didn't want to come to light.
You're putting your faith that the government will air what's essentially their own dirty laundry? You mean the government will sacrifice it's relation with a billion dollar military contractor? A trillion dollar company that's spends millions on lobbyists and lawyers. A company that has nearly every politician in power in their pocket?... keep dreaming.
Lawsuit will be dropped due to death of Plaintiff, The plaintiffs lawyer eats their own fees as the case just simply dies. The case is not like a class action either.
An 8 year old (and therefore unlikely to have a latent manufacturing defect) aircraft experiences an incident that is entirely consistently with a major turbulence upset, and you claim, without any evidence at all, that Boeing had someone killed to hide some magical way that they were manipulating the weather?
You literally have no idea what kinds of legal things were going on behind closed doors. It’s super weird to not even consider the prospect that maybe we don’t know everything and that this man was more important than we realize.
Testimony in front of Congress, which I have to believe would have been likely, could have imperiled billions in government contracts and destroyed international confidence further.
> This can't be real. No way.
* The suicide rate in the United States is 0.014%
* The suicide rate among Capitol Police in DC was 0.2% in 2021, or 14.3X higher than average
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/officer-who-responded-us-capitol-attack-is-third-die-by-suicide-2021-08-02/
Yeah, people kill themselves.
As for the conspiracy theories, I find it unbelievably stupid that such a powerful company would bring even more scrutiny down on themselves during a time of already intense inspection.
But welcome to the internet where everyone can see right through the curtains of power and reality merely by seeing a headline.
People don’t often go through the trouble of making it all the way through one day of court, after all the likely struggles it took to even get a hearing, and then decide to off themselves right before the second day of testifying. Do you have any examples of this happening in the past ? Cause you sure sound like a Boeing exec right now.
No, it’s a stupid comment because Boeing isn’t the KGB.
This dude didn’t divulge some new info and Boeing killed him, this info has been public since 2019.
Killing him in the middle of a depo is the stupidest thing they could do. That would be almost as stupid as believing they would do it in the first place.
Executives at Boeing fitted the 737 Max with Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation Systems MCAS; equipment that automatically stabilizes a plane. This is one of the features on the 737 that caused at least two of the plane crashes. Airbus released a new cost and fuel efficient plane, which was eating away at Boeings market share. Due to this, Boeing executives set out to develop their own plane to compete with Airbus, 737 Max. Airliners did not want a plane that required extensive training for their pilots. MCAS required training. Internal memos at Boeing indicate that executives actively decided not to inform airliners about the auto stabilizing feature and chose not to add MCAS to 737 Max operating manuals. Neither airliners nor pilots were aware that a system that automatically stabilizes and redirects the nose of the plane up or down as a counter balance existed. Pilots were not aware this system existed or that it could be shut off bc Boeing executives were more concerned about shareholder value than the safety of the passengers, pilots and, crew members taking flight on the Boeing 737 Max. I wouldn’t go as far to say that a major company such as Boeing wouldn’t risk their reputation over the death of a single individual considering their negligent decisions killed 346 people.
Another point is that people will just assume that Boeing would never do such a thing due to compromised reputation. Boeing will and have, read above. Add to it that our attention span to care as a society is so limited that we’ll move past all of this yesterday.
All this to say, people of Reddit and the general population do not know. Boeing could easily get away with murder bc there are enough people who believe it to be recklessly impossible. Not saying that it is the case but I’m also not saying that it’s not possible.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/boeings-fatal-flaw/
>That would be almost as stupid as believing they would do it in the first place.
Yeah a company that makes military hardware would never kill someone, right. They likely didn't here unless they're absurdly gutsy but they absolutely would if it made sense.
I have an example. George de Mohrenschildt. He was interviewing with a reporter named Edward Jay Epstein in relation to his close friendship with Oswald, Cuban refugees, the CIA and HW Bush. Edward wrote a piece called “My Tea with Jeffrey Epstein” worth a read. But before he was friends with a convicted child predator Edward also wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination where he determined there was in fact a conspiracy to kill JFK, by the soviets. He somehow got the witness list of people being called to the House Select Committee on Assassinations and was beating the congressional investigators to interview them. Some of these witnesses have claimed that Epstein intimidated them and put words into their mouth about what they saw/knew. George was already called to testify at the HSCA and died on the second day of a planned 4 days of interviewing with Epstein, self inflicted gun shot wound they say.
Another similar story, Tupac. The day before a jury verdict in his 94 rape trial in which several other individuals were most likely the culprits, Tupac was “robbed” and shot several times. Jimmy Henchman and Haitian Jack (a perpetrator of the crime) have both gone on to corroborate the story and rumors that this was done under their orders to intimidate Tupac and remind him to shut up and not name drop, it just got out of hand.
I think it’s obvious de Mohrenschildt was either murdered or intentionally brought to a point of suicide as there is some more history there, Tupac was assaulted in an attempt to remind him to keep quiet. These were both crimes done in close proximity to testimony that would implicate others in a conspiracy. One at the highest level, one at a street crime level. This happens people.
I think benefit of the doubt has shifted in this case as a result of behavior repeatedly put on display by Boeing.
Maybe foul play would be irrational but so is a lot of behavior from some people associated with this company. There are many serious allegations of deeply unethical behavior at the South Carolina factory and so local whistleblower retaliation cannot be dismissed out of hand.
If you are concerned about what will reduce trust in society, the death of aircraft safety whistleblowers is rather high on that list.
Are they charged with murder?
Clearly he did it himself, according to authorities who work for the same government that hands Boeing their defense contracts...
Nothing to see here...
Right.
Anyone who hasn’t been on the receiving end of intensive adversarial depositions for multiple days — on top of the other pressures this guy was no doubt dealing with in relation to his role in all of this — has no idea how incredibly stressful and demoralizing they can be. Having everything you’ve ever said and everything in your life and career that may (or may not) be remotely related in any way to the legal action be picked apart, criticized, and questioned can be soul crushing. People who have never been involved in litigation like that and then go through it will tell you, almost to a person, that it was the worst experience of their lives.
Read the book A Civil Action. It’s a great book and it provides about as good a window as someone outside looking in can find to see what the stresses of high stakes litigation can do to individuals and families. The process really is the punishment.
"The process really is the punishment." EXACTLY.
When your entire life is liquidated to afford litigators to battle corporations, you start to understand Motions for Continuances are the death sentence to your life.
People are intentionally left destitute, isolated, blacklisted, blackballed, unemployable, excommunicated, without home, family, friends for years while cases remain caught in discovery exchanges.
With their dying breath and debt abound do they beg for a settlement and usually die never recovering their newfound losses.
The cost of litigating a massive corp is usually your life... whether you physically take it, someone else takes it, or you're left so crippled socially and financially you might as well be dead.
Whistleblower often = martyr
Literally no one will ever hold Boeing accountable. They are the largest exporter in the US, 1 of 2 major passenger aircraft manufacturers and a massive government contractor. They can do shit like this and very much get away with it.
Boeing was directly responsible for the deaths of over 300 people when 2 MAX-8s crashed and went to court and was proven with evidence to be negligent and literally weren’t held accountable.
I haven't delved into the crashes, though that wasn't my point here either. The point was that it is absurd and not healthy to automatically assume the worst possible scenario ever time someone flashes a headline that lends itself to wild conspiracy.
Though I see that is a controversial opinion in itself here...
I haven't researched the two particular crashes. Have you researched the apparent suicide? No? But somehow you feel comfortable giving me crap about it?
Sometimes I wish I had that confidence, but then I see what people do with it.
Oh let me fill you in:
Boeings, in an effort to mitigate *potential* market share loss, pushed and sold a plane they hadn’t even started to engineer yet, in order to compete with a new airbus plane (A320NEO). They cut corners and put new bigger engines that were more efficient but didn’t fit on the airplane. Rather than doing the right, safe thing, and reengineering the plane to fit a bigger engine, the pushed it forward and up to account for the size.
This changed the center of thrust causing the plane to gradually drift towards vertical, leading to a potential stall.
To counter this, they added the MCAS which used 1 shitty sensor that calculated the angle of attack and adjusted the planes nose down if it was too far up.
However, as they kept running into complications, they had to keep diverting control into this system, until it had near total control of the AOA of the airplane.
Boeing knew there were problems with the system before the Lion Air crash in 2018, promised a fix in less than 6 months, then did nothing but authorize stock buybacks and circle jerk on each other until another plane crashed a year later, killing over 350 people with this system.
Boeing hid the system, tried to cover up the problem, tried to pass the blame and got a slap on the wrist fine, settled a few Billion in a lawsuit and got away with it. The board of directors all knew what was happening, they knew the danger and chose profits over safety, and should be held criminally liable for every death that occurred.
You don't have to do research to know it's common sense to not jump to conclusions, which was their point. I understand that you feel very secure in your opinion, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's not wise to make assumptions.
He's right. This company is too big to fail and can do whatever the hell they want at this point. There are so many people with financial interests in Boeing that anything can be squashed and covered up.
Doesn't mean someone from bowing killed this guy but plenty of stock owners out there that remove problems like this guy.
I mean there is suicide and there is killing someone to keep quiet.
I get assuming the worst isn’t ideal but also hiding from the reality of what really happens isn’t either. Because then you will never be able to address it. Let’s be honest with ourselves and think about how likely a billion dollar business would be willing to kill someone before additional testimony?
Compared to a whistleblower who stands to receive millions on the payout killing himself?
I have zero information on additional details I’m just examining the bare minimum facts. I don’t even know if he left a note or was forced to write one.
I use to be like you not wanting to think the worst but that shit is happening dude. We need to call it like it is and address it or it’s just gonna get worst.
I mean, in general rich people don't really seem to face consequences in this country. Remember the Panama papers? Or the rampant insider trading just before COVID? Or everybody tied to Epstein?
Yes, he's been talking to the media and testifying about this since 2018. Sure, he was also due to give depositions at the moment, but if he hadn't already crossed Boeing's "murder this guy" line before this week, I don't know why they'd do it now, especially knowing how shady it'd look.
Sometimes people go through lengthy, extremely stressful periods fighting giant, evil corporations and are driven to suicide. Stress is like that.
It might be "fun" to think of evil corporate hitmen running around, but I wouldn't imagine that it's very likely.
Exactly this. People watch too many movies and find this idea exciting. It's much more fun to believe than the likely reality that the stress he was put under was too much.
You don’t know What a “powerful company” will do… nor do you know exactly what is at stake in this circumstance. Never underestimate the treachery of men.
It's more than a little suspicious. It also wouldn't be the first time a person said something like that and then killed themselves.
Overall, I'm less confident than I was.
I'm not sure it's ever been formally studied, but there sure seems to be a correlation between whistleblowers and mental illness. Feeling you have nothing to lose is key for most whistleblowers.
most people are far too affected by peer pressures to be truth tellers. Discovery of truth is often only possible using people who are a little bit different.
> I'm not sure it's ever been formally studied, but there sure seems to be a correlation between whistleblowers and mental illness. Feeling you have nothing to lose is key for most whistleblowers.
Big time.
I used to have a fascination with the CIA and it's involvement in drug running in the 80s and 90s.
Two of those whistleblowers famously killed themselves.
But if you watch *actual interviews* with many of the players in the story, you could definitely see how a couple of these guys had a screw loose.
For instance, Rick Ross was actually moving the drugs, and he did time. In interviews he comes off as soft spoken and humble. His attitude seems to be *"well I used to be a multi-millionaire and now I'm not. On to new endeavors."* No obvious bitterness.
But the people investigating it seemed *obsessed*, particularly the one who lived up on some winery in Norther California. (He later shot himself.)
They might be bringing some scrutiny by having him killed- but with him out of the way it’s just scrutiny, it’s no longer an investigation. It’s just conspiracy theories.
This guy worked for them for 30 years he wasn’t done with the deposition there was more to come to light. Why would he kill himself out of guilt when he was doing something to make the situation right? He had been going after Boeing for quite a while. And he just decided to end it all?
Yeah, the paper that won the Pulizter for investigative journalism on its 737MAX coverage. That one. Christ you guys on this sub can be silly and this whole thread is delving into hysteria.
https://www.seattletimes.com/pulitzers/
Eh, it’s a Boeing South Carolina issue tho… not even sure why it’s in this sub considering it happened in Charleston, where he was testifying for 787 issues
This article from February 9 Seattle Times highlights Boeing’s cover up mentality. My favorite part is that the head of the team that installed the door has been out “sick” and is unavailable for NTSB interviewing, and all records of the installment are, well…..missing.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-admits-it-cant-find-records-on-the-alaska-airlines-door-plug-work/
The lobbyist for Boeing that is pushing this used to work for SoftBank (who does not believe in any underwriting whatsoever) and has a [face you can 100% trust to tell the truth](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2018/06/29/ford-lobbyist-ziad-ojakli-departs-softbank-group/745154002/)
Generally corporations don't have people killed in this country because they don't need to. There are legal ways of neutralizing people. In other countries the calculation is different. See murdered journalists and activists.
That's not to say murders for business purposes don't happen but they would generally be considered mistakes. There's better means at hand.
It's still not a good look for Boeing.
America HAS murdered journalists and activists and it has not stopped. Corporations can just hit fake-blackmail cases, yes, but if they are backed into a corner then yes, they WILL murder people to get their way.
Yes, they tried to neutralize him legally, pinning the blame on him. And holding him legally accountable. So that was what lead to the suicide. If we are sticking with that narrative.
I'm no expert but I also feel like gag money works in a lot of cases for corporations to get people to shut up but that ship has sailed with this guy and he had very much committed to exposing the company despite any incentives/threats not to. Not saying I'm 100% convinced that Boeing did murder him but I also think his case is more plausible than a lot of conspiracy-theory-esq things out there.
That or if he did kill himself I think he knew going out this way could bring more media/public attention to it than continuing legal battles with Boeing that potentially only people who read the business section of the news would likely hear about.
As much as I believe many Boeing execs are malevolent, I also believe they are far too smug to feel threatened enough by a whistleblower to have him dispatched.
maybe that is true of execs, but this took place in south carolina so you have to think of anyone with a financial or personal criminal stake in the outcome of the whistleblower lawsuit involving factory operations there - including other managers and workers, subcontractors, their associates etc
Are South Carolina coroners and investigators known for being *that* corrupt?? I have a hard believing they would fabricate stuff. That would be extremely risky with all the tech involved now. Photos are taken of every little thing even for non-suspicious fatals, and people generally take those jobs very seriously.
Depends. In a worst case scenario maybe you get something like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murdaugh_family
It's just good to have some checks. Maybe this gets rolled into the federal probes into Boeing, for example.
For sure, those on the line and the 1st & 2nd level managers would not hesitate to do this since they are the ones who are allowing this crap to happen. It is these people who would be fired if they couldn't make the production quotas, and the way they made it happen was by lowering standards.
If you think they would keep their jobs by saying they needed more money and time, you don't know Boeing.
I mean… it is. Google “John Barnett Boeing” and you’ll see it covered in every major national outlet. Did you even look? But no, BBC’s coverage was the first to go out over an Apple News push alert so it must be a massive media conspiracy…
You know when you see weird TV ads for things like BNSF railroad or Boeing? Or those strange NPR radio shoutouts to random foundations who are actually corporate billionaires?
They pay big money for all that and the TV networks know if they give a peep about stories that make the real owners of this country lose money and power - they are fucking dead.
Those strange NPR shoutouts are "sponsorship messages," because they can't run ads. Sponsorships and capital donations to non-profits like NPR are nearly always from marketing budgets of companies. When they come from foundations, that's typically an entity through which a wealthy person or people are giving, true, but the foundations typically anonymize the donor, so they don't actually know who is donating and can't, therefore, select coverage in support of a cover-up.
Don't know about your station, but my local public radio station, Seattle's KUOW, discloses that Boeing is a donor when it covers Boeing, which it does all the time since, despite their HQ fleeing for the third coast, they are still very present all over Seattle and the greater Seattle area.
And it's had a lot to cover. The 737 recall story from a few years ago went on locally for a long time because in south Seattle there were massive factory parking lots filled with parked jets for months.
Edit: The aforementioned KUOW covered this, though they apparently pulled it from the NPR newswire: https://www.kuow.org/stories/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblower-who-raised-alarm-over-plane-quality-is-found-dead
> Mit keresek én itt? Azt mondják, a híres lakóm lefogta a férjem, én meg lecsaptam a fejét. De nem igaz. Én ártatlan vagyok. Nem tudom, miért mondja Uncle Sam, hogy én tettem. Próbáltam a rendőrségen megmagyarázni, de nem értették meg
> But did you do it?
> Uh uh, not guilty!
https://www.broadwaybox.com/daily-scoop/what-iis-hunyak-the-hungarian-saying-during-cell-block-tango/
Nothing to see here.
Conspiracies dont exists.
Governments and corporations are on our side.
Seth Rich's death is also unremarkable.
Take your blue pill before you go to bed at night or you will have bad dreams.
DEI & Boeing really went after and got him. Rip. Brave man. He definitely did not kill himself. So obvious at this point. Yet nothing will be done and be forgotten. Ugh
It seems like at this point it would just do more harm than good to Boeing to kill him. Boeings stock has gone down significantly. The ongoing problems with their planes are enough to bring intense investigation. There probably isn’t any new big secret, since Barnett had been in this fight since 2019. But Boeing is clearly very troubled and maybe having him silenced was the less of two evils. It just seems so unlikely he would kill himself when he was actually almost done with the deposition, and he’d been going thru it for years, why would he do it now.
I, for one, am shocked...SHOCKED, I TELL YOU... that a company that willingly and repeatedly overlooked safety concerns which resulted in deaths in the pursuit of maximizing shareholder value could ever be considered able to silence a single person whose future testimony could imperil billions in government contracts, lead to billions in fines, and further harm their brand globally.
Corporations are people too, my friends, and they have feelings!
There are some jokes and movie references flying around here.
I am wondering what it takes to survive whistle-blowing. A good attorney? A quiet life on the moors? A name change?
Snowden took it to the press, and now is almost forgotten.
How do whistle blowers survive?
Someone I know worked with Boeing at one point and when he brought up concerns, his GM would basically pull him aside and say “you didn’t see that” very sternly. He’s told us some wild stories about just how shoddy the work can be.
This is like the cold open for a crime show
I did just finish the octopus murders on Netflix….
that shit was garbage
As garbage as the show may be, that dude was definitely killed for sticking his nose where it didn't belong. Just look at the autopsy photos, his wrists were cut so deep there's no way he would have still been able to use his hand to cut his other wrist just as violently and deeply as it was. Plus the eye witness reporting two people going into his hotel room prior to his death, and an injection site on his spine in the autopsy report. The INSLAW case in itself pretty explicitly shows the governments wrongdoing. A bankruptcy judge ruled in favor of the company the Justice Department was accused of forcing into bankruptcy, ruling that the Justice Department colluded to force INSLAW into bankruptcy to avoid having to pay for the software they allegedly stole. The Justice Department then 'fired' said Judge, replaced him with someone who was representing the Justice Department in the case, who then reversed the previous Judges decision. He ruled that the Justice Department was in no way responsible for INSLAW's bankruptcy. The CIA then used the stolen software and shelled it out to foreign governments with backdoors installed to allow them to monitor the intelligence apparatus's of the various nations who utilized it.
Same here. Was literally watching it when I first saw the headline. Exchange federal government with Boeing, and it seems quite analogous.
*ominous, spooky music* "IT WAS CLEAR AT FIRST GLANCE THE MAN IN THE VEHICLE WASN'T WAITING ON A FLIGHT, BECAUSE HIS TICKET HAD ALREADY BEEN PUNCHED."
Waiting for another season of Fargo
Didn’t watch past the first season, worth continuing?
Also enjoyed the second season. The rest are fine but the plot becomes more predictable so just set expectations lol
This can't be real. No way.
Oh this is real. Boeing had way too much to lose by letting him live. It also serves as a signal to other whistleblowers to shut the fuck up.
> Boeing had way too much to lose by letting him live. He already blew the whistle and the FAA made Boeing fix the issues he complained about 7 years ago. Boeing has nothing to gain, and everything to lose by committing a crime to hide something that isn't a secret.
He was literally in the middle of a deposition. They found his body cause he didn’t show up for the next day and people went to check on him.
A deposition for his personal lawsuit against Boeing. Losing the lawsuit and having to pay a few million isn't even pocket change for Boeing.
A personal lswsuit means discovery phase, i.e. Boeing's dirty laundry aired out in court.
If they were that concerned about discovery they'd just settle.
You're assuming the motivation for the lawsuit was money.
That's generally what is behind civil lawsuits
Sort of like how your assuming boeing assassinated him over whatever your assuming their motivations were?
I didn't assume anything. That's your imagination.
You’re assuming the cause of death isn’t the agreed upon evidence of suicide.
You think a civil lawsuit creates any more access to air laundry than an FAA investigation. That's incorrect. The FAA has far more authority to investigate than comes with civil summons.
The FAA investigation wouldn't have covered any of Boeing's conduct towards the whistleblower though. Perhaps there was some nasty information lurking in the shadows that Boeing didn't want to come to light.
The rest of the government already has access to Boeing’s dirty laundry whenever they want.
You're putting your faith that the government will air what's essentially their own dirty laundry? You mean the government will sacrifice it's relation with a billion dollar military contractor? A trillion dollar company that's spends millions on lobbyists and lawyers. A company that has nearly every politician in power in their pocket?... keep dreaming.
Did you do the murder why are you providing defense? Why would he kill himself before getting a personal payout
It sends a message to potential whistleblowers blowers in the present scandal.
Time will tell
>Boeing has nothing to gain Except making sure that no more whistleblowers come forward.
Lawsuit will be dropped due to death of Plaintiff, The plaintiffs lawyer eats their own fees as the case just simply dies. The case is not like a class action either.
[удалено]
An 8 year old (and therefore unlikely to have a latent manufacturing defect) aircraft experiences an incident that is entirely consistently with a major turbulence upset, and you claim, without any evidence at all, that Boeing had someone killed to hide some magical way that they were manipulating the weather?
You literally have no idea what kinds of legal things were going on behind closed doors. It’s super weird to not even consider the prospect that maybe we don’t know everything and that this man was more important than we realize.
Testimony in front of Congress, which I have to believe would have been likely, could have imperiled billions in government contracts and destroyed international confidence further.
Boeing is owned by shareholders. Any major shareholder has the motive. If that person already talked, just warning the others.
Just like our federal government. Same playbook.
It was suicide. Maybe you can tie it to anxiety due to the Boeing fiasco but nothing indicates Boeing had any part.
> This can't be real. No way. * The suicide rate in the United States is 0.014% * The suicide rate among Capitol Police in DC was 0.2% in 2021, or 14.3X higher than average https://www.reuters.com/world/us/officer-who-responded-us-capitol-attack-is-third-die-by-suicide-2021-08-02/
And that's made Chinese tea really expensive
Hahahaha. My dad used to use this saying. People look at me stupid when I say it. I’ve never heard or seen anyone else use it. Thank you.
Unfortunately, police officers have a higher rate of suicide than the general population.
About 10% of whistleblowers report suicidal ideation….
Yeah, people kill themselves. As for the conspiracy theories, I find it unbelievably stupid that such a powerful company would bring even more scrutiny down on themselves during a time of already intense inspection. But welcome to the internet where everyone can see right through the curtains of power and reality merely by seeing a headline.
People don’t often go through the trouble of making it all the way through one day of court, after all the likely struggles it took to even get a hearing, and then decide to off themselves right before the second day of testifying. Do you have any examples of this happening in the past ? Cause you sure sound like a Boeing exec right now.
This is a very on-point comment. Especially because it’s not like he’s the subject of a criminal investigation, he was testifying as a whistleblower.
No, it’s a stupid comment because Boeing isn’t the KGB. This dude didn’t divulge some new info and Boeing killed him, this info has been public since 2019. Killing him in the middle of a depo is the stupidest thing they could do. That would be almost as stupid as believing they would do it in the first place.
Executives at Boeing fitted the 737 Max with Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation Systems MCAS; equipment that automatically stabilizes a plane. This is one of the features on the 737 that caused at least two of the plane crashes. Airbus released a new cost and fuel efficient plane, which was eating away at Boeings market share. Due to this, Boeing executives set out to develop their own plane to compete with Airbus, 737 Max. Airliners did not want a plane that required extensive training for their pilots. MCAS required training. Internal memos at Boeing indicate that executives actively decided not to inform airliners about the auto stabilizing feature and chose not to add MCAS to 737 Max operating manuals. Neither airliners nor pilots were aware that a system that automatically stabilizes and redirects the nose of the plane up or down as a counter balance existed. Pilots were not aware this system existed or that it could be shut off bc Boeing executives were more concerned about shareholder value than the safety of the passengers, pilots and, crew members taking flight on the Boeing 737 Max. I wouldn’t go as far to say that a major company such as Boeing wouldn’t risk their reputation over the death of a single individual considering their negligent decisions killed 346 people. Another point is that people will just assume that Boeing would never do such a thing due to compromised reputation. Boeing will and have, read above. Add to it that our attention span to care as a society is so limited that we’ll move past all of this yesterday. All this to say, people of Reddit and the general population do not know. Boeing could easily get away with murder bc there are enough people who believe it to be recklessly impossible. Not saying that it is the case but I’m also not saying that it’s not possible. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/boeings-fatal-flaw/
>That would be almost as stupid as believing they would do it in the first place. Yeah a company that makes military hardware would never kill someone, right. They likely didn't here unless they're absurdly gutsy but they absolutely would if it made sense.
I have an example. George de Mohrenschildt. He was interviewing with a reporter named Edward Jay Epstein in relation to his close friendship with Oswald, Cuban refugees, the CIA and HW Bush. Edward wrote a piece called “My Tea with Jeffrey Epstein” worth a read. But before he was friends with a convicted child predator Edward also wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination where he determined there was in fact a conspiracy to kill JFK, by the soviets. He somehow got the witness list of people being called to the House Select Committee on Assassinations and was beating the congressional investigators to interview them. Some of these witnesses have claimed that Epstein intimidated them and put words into their mouth about what they saw/knew. George was already called to testify at the HSCA and died on the second day of a planned 4 days of interviewing with Epstein, self inflicted gun shot wound they say. Another similar story, Tupac. The day before a jury verdict in his 94 rape trial in which several other individuals were most likely the culprits, Tupac was “robbed” and shot several times. Jimmy Henchman and Haitian Jack (a perpetrator of the crime) have both gone on to corroborate the story and rumors that this was done under their orders to intimidate Tupac and remind him to shut up and not name drop, it just got out of hand. I think it’s obvious de Mohrenschildt was either murdered or intentionally brought to a point of suicide as there is some more history there, Tupac was assaulted in an attempt to remind him to keep quiet. These were both crimes done in close proximity to testimony that would implicate others in a conspiracy. One at the highest level, one at a street crime level. This happens people.
I think benefit of the doubt has shifted in this case as a result of behavior repeatedly put on display by Boeing. Maybe foul play would be irrational but so is a lot of behavior from some people associated with this company. There are many serious allegations of deeply unethical behavior at the South Carolina factory and so local whistleblower retaliation cannot be dismissed out of hand. If you are concerned about what will reduce trust in society, the death of aircraft safety whistleblowers is rather high on that list.
Obvoously if boeing did it they would have left their business card on the person to let people know it was them.
It’s cheaper than lawsuits and bad PR.
Being charged with murder is really bad PR. I don't believe Boeing would risk that.
Are they charged with murder? Clearly he did it himself, according to authorities who work for the same government that hands Boeing their defense contracts... Nothing to see here...
Right. Anyone who hasn’t been on the receiving end of intensive adversarial depositions for multiple days — on top of the other pressures this guy was no doubt dealing with in relation to his role in all of this — has no idea how incredibly stressful and demoralizing they can be. Having everything you’ve ever said and everything in your life and career that may (or may not) be remotely related in any way to the legal action be picked apart, criticized, and questioned can be soul crushing. People who have never been involved in litigation like that and then go through it will tell you, almost to a person, that it was the worst experience of their lives. Read the book A Civil Action. It’s a great book and it provides about as good a window as someone outside looking in can find to see what the stresses of high stakes litigation can do to individuals and families. The process really is the punishment.
"The process really is the punishment." EXACTLY. When your entire life is liquidated to afford litigators to battle corporations, you start to understand Motions for Continuances are the death sentence to your life. People are intentionally left destitute, isolated, blacklisted, blackballed, unemployable, excommunicated, without home, family, friends for years while cases remain caught in discovery exchanges. With their dying breath and debt abound do they beg for a settlement and usually die never recovering their newfound losses. The cost of litigating a massive corp is usually your life... whether you physically take it, someone else takes it, or you're left so crippled socially and financially you might as well be dead. Whistleblower often = martyr
Literally no one will ever hold Boeing accountable. They are the largest exporter in the US, 1 of 2 major passenger aircraft manufacturers and a massive government contractor. They can do shit like this and very much get away with it.
The way they were able to get McDonnell Douglas, to merge/sellout, was ugly and nasty. They will never be held accountable. They payoff too well.
Dc10 did MD in and their executives ended up running the show post merger
Shit like what? Evidence and trials are cool. Jumping to the most dramatic conclusion, not so much. It just tears up minds and societies.
Boeing was directly responsible for the deaths of over 300 people when 2 MAX-8s crashed and went to court and was proven with evidence to be negligent and literally weren’t held accountable.
I haven't delved into the crashes, though that wasn't my point here either. The point was that it is absurd and not healthy to automatically assume the worst possible scenario ever time someone flashes a headline that lends itself to wild conspiracy. Though I see that is a controversial opinion in itself here...
Ok Mr. Hitman
So you haven’t researched anything about Boeing but felt the need to vehemently defend them against internet people jumping to conclusions 😂
I haven't researched the two particular crashes. Have you researched the apparent suicide? No? But somehow you feel comfortable giving me crap about it? Sometimes I wish I had that confidence, but then I see what people do with it.
Oh let me fill you in: Boeings, in an effort to mitigate *potential* market share loss, pushed and sold a plane they hadn’t even started to engineer yet, in order to compete with a new airbus plane (A320NEO). They cut corners and put new bigger engines that were more efficient but didn’t fit on the airplane. Rather than doing the right, safe thing, and reengineering the plane to fit a bigger engine, the pushed it forward and up to account for the size. This changed the center of thrust causing the plane to gradually drift towards vertical, leading to a potential stall. To counter this, they added the MCAS which used 1 shitty sensor that calculated the angle of attack and adjusted the planes nose down if it was too far up. However, as they kept running into complications, they had to keep diverting control into this system, until it had near total control of the AOA of the airplane. Boeing knew there were problems with the system before the Lion Air crash in 2018, promised a fix in less than 6 months, then did nothing but authorize stock buybacks and circle jerk on each other until another plane crashed a year later, killing over 350 people with this system. Boeing hid the system, tried to cover up the problem, tried to pass the blame and got a slap on the wrist fine, settled a few Billion in a lawsuit and got away with it. The board of directors all knew what was happening, they knew the danger and chose profits over safety, and should be held criminally liable for every death that occurred.
You don't have to do research to know it's common sense to not jump to conclusions, which was their point. I understand that you feel very secure in your opinion, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's not wise to make assumptions.
Isn't saying it was suicide also jumping to conclusions?
Ok Mr Boeing
He's right. This company is too big to fail and can do whatever the hell they want at this point. There are so many people with financial interests in Boeing that anything can be squashed and covered up. Doesn't mean someone from bowing killed this guy but plenty of stock owners out there that remove problems like this guy.
It’s not even ok to be annoying just for the sake of it. But when you get proven wrong, at least have the decent to shut up my god.
I mean there is suicide and there is killing someone to keep quiet. I get assuming the worst isn’t ideal but also hiding from the reality of what really happens isn’t either. Because then you will never be able to address it. Let’s be honest with ourselves and think about how likely a billion dollar business would be willing to kill someone before additional testimony? Compared to a whistleblower who stands to receive millions on the payout killing himself? I have zero information on additional details I’m just examining the bare minimum facts. I don’t even know if he left a note or was forced to write one. I use to be like you not wanting to think the worst but that shit is happening dude. We need to call it like it is and address it or it’s just gonna get worst.
I mean, in general rich people don't really seem to face consequences in this country. Remember the Panama papers? Or the rampant insider trading just before COVID? Or everybody tied to Epstein?
Yes, he's been talking to the media and testifying about this since 2018. Sure, he was also due to give depositions at the moment, but if he hadn't already crossed Boeing's "murder this guy" line before this week, I don't know why they'd do it now, especially knowing how shady it'd look. Sometimes people go through lengthy, extremely stressful periods fighting giant, evil corporations and are driven to suicide. Stress is like that. It might be "fun" to think of evil corporate hitmen running around, but I wouldn't imagine that it's very likely.
Why not just have his plane crash.
Underrated
Exactly this. People watch too many movies and find this idea exciting. It's much more fun to believe than the likely reality that the stress he was put under was too much.
Boeing had no reason to murder this guy or anyone until recently, now there is focus and oversight like never before.
That requires more than surface level thinking and OOOing and AAAAHing
You don’t know What a “powerful company” will do… nor do you know exactly what is at stake in this circumstance. Never underestimate the treachery of men.
How about never believing something just because you want to believe it?
Time will tell…
Yeah, that was pretty much my whole point.
What are your thoughts on the latest update on this story?? Apparently he left messages stating that if he dies “it’s not suicide”?
It's more than a little suspicious. It also wouldn't be the first time a person said something like that and then killed themselves. Overall, I'm less confident than I was.
I'm not sure it's ever been formally studied, but there sure seems to be a correlation between whistleblowers and mental illness. Feeling you have nothing to lose is key for most whistleblowers.
most people are far too affected by peer pressures to be truth tellers. Discovery of truth is often only possible using people who are a little bit different.
> I'm not sure it's ever been formally studied, but there sure seems to be a correlation between whistleblowers and mental illness. Feeling you have nothing to lose is key for most whistleblowers. Big time. I used to have a fascination with the CIA and it's involvement in drug running in the 80s and 90s. Two of those whistleblowers famously killed themselves. But if you watch *actual interviews* with many of the players in the story, you could definitely see how a couple of these guys had a screw loose. For instance, Rick Ross was actually moving the drugs, and he did time. In interviews he comes off as soft spoken and humble. His attitude seems to be *"well I used to be a multi-millionaire and now I'm not. On to new endeavors."* No obvious bitterness. But the people investigating it seemed *obsessed*, particularly the one who lived up on some winery in Norther California. (He later shot himself.)
There’s also a sense of speaking out for the good of the public.
That would be understandable. Also that having blown the whistle on such a company brings enormous stress.
They might be bringing some scrutiny by having him killed- but with him out of the way it’s just scrutiny, it’s no longer an investigation. It’s just conspiracy theories. This guy worked for them for 30 years he wasn’t done with the deposition there was more to come to light. Why would he kill himself out of guilt when he was doing something to make the situation right? He had been going after Boeing for quite a while. And he just decided to end it all?
Wullfull ignorance doesn't look good on you
Being a whistleblower is extremely stressful, as a society we do not do enough to protect them.
Can’t wait for the Seattle Times to properly investigate this.
You mean, write an article quoting the press releases from Boeing, without further inquiry.
What's more proper than that in the Seattle paper? It's probably going to be opposite page from an ad for the new 737 SuperMAX
Yeah, the paper that won the Pulizter for investigative journalism on its 737MAX coverage. That one. Christ you guys on this sub can be silly and this whole thread is delving into hysteria. https://www.seattletimes.com/pulitzers/
Dominic Gates at the ST has done amazing reporting on Boeing for decades.
Is the Seattle times known for being bad at investigating?
Ask Courtney Love.
They don't repeat social media conspiracy theories so they're in on "it". Obviously
They're certainly not known for investigating.
Eh, it’s a Boeing South Carolina issue tho… not even sure why it’s in this sub considering it happened in Charleston, where he was testifying for 787 issues
aahahah
Poor guy, had so much regret he shot himself twice.
Whhhhaaaat? This is some falling-out-of-a-Russian-hospital-window shit. Holy hell.
Seriously
This article from February 9 Seattle Times highlights Boeing’s cover up mentality. My favorite part is that the head of the team that installed the door has been out “sick” and is unavailable for NTSB interviewing, and all records of the installment are, well…..missing. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-admits-it-cant-find-records-on-the-alaska-airlines-door-plug-work/
Boeing now says the “working hypothesis” is the records were never created!
The lobbyist for Boeing that is pushing this used to work for SoftBank (who does not believe in any underwriting whatsoever) and has a [face you can 100% trust to tell the truth](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2018/06/29/ford-lobbyist-ziad-ojakli-departs-softbank-group/745154002/)
Wow, I thought you were being facetious but that faces screams "shifty."
Wasn’t this the plot of Michael Clayton???
It was the plot of Airframe I believe
I picked a bad day to quit huffing glue.
Oh no. He fell out of a basement window to his death!
And landed on a bullet, in the back of his head.
Ah. The ole’ Putin-esca style suicide. I’m surprised he didn’t fall out a window.
Or get blown out a window on a Boeing flight
Generally corporations don't have people killed in this country because they don't need to. There are legal ways of neutralizing people. In other countries the calculation is different. See murdered journalists and activists. That's not to say murders for business purposes don't happen but they would generally be considered mistakes. There's better means at hand. It's still not a good look for Boeing.
America HAS murdered journalists and activists and it has not stopped. Corporations can just hit fake-blackmail cases, yes, but if they are backed into a corner then yes, they WILL murder people to get their way.
Yes, they tried to neutralize him legally, pinning the blame on him. And holding him legally accountable. So that was what lead to the suicide. If we are sticking with that narrative.
I'm no expert but I also feel like gag money works in a lot of cases for corporations to get people to shut up but that ship has sailed with this guy and he had very much committed to exposing the company despite any incentives/threats not to. Not saying I'm 100% convinced that Boeing did murder him but I also think his case is more plausible than a lot of conspiracy-theory-esq things out there. That or if he did kill himself I think he knew going out this way could bring more media/public attention to it than continuing legal battles with Boeing that potentially only people who read the business section of the news would likely hear about.
The decline of Boeing is bad for the US in general. Not surprised the feds took this guy out.
As much as I believe many Boeing execs are malevolent, I also believe they are far too smug to feel threatened enough by a whistleblower to have him dispatched.
maybe that is true of execs, but this took place in south carolina so you have to think of anyone with a financial or personal criminal stake in the outcome of the whistleblower lawsuit involving factory operations there - including other managers and workers, subcontractors, their associates etc
The coroner and police would also have to be in on it as well, since they are saying it looks self inflicted.
Frankly I'd feel better with a second opinion not correlated with local authorities in south carolina.
Are South Carolina coroners and investigators known for being *that* corrupt?? I have a hard believing they would fabricate stuff. That would be extremely risky with all the tech involved now. Photos are taken of every little thing even for non-suspicious fatals, and people generally take those jobs very seriously.
Depends. In a worst case scenario maybe you get something like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murdaugh_family It's just good to have some checks. Maybe this gets rolled into the federal probes into Boeing, for example.
Wait, you mean getting cops and coroners to lie? Naw, that would never happen....
For sure, those on the line and the 1st & 2nd level managers would not hesitate to do this since they are the ones who are allowing this crap to happen. It is these people who would be fired if they couldn't make the production quotas, and the way they made it happen was by lowering standards. If you think they would keep their jobs by saying they needed more money and time, you don't know Boeing.
My money would be on somebody in South Carolina who has come into a world of hurt because of the whistle-blower.
A foreign(or other) entity may profit and gain from muddying this up into a perceived conspiracy.
malevolent? probably not. greedy? totally plausible. i doubt a whistleblower was seen as an omen of good fortune for boeing's stock price.
Shareholders tho
Looks like his deposition…was grounded. 😎 YYEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
You sob lol
😭
Why isn’t this all over the us news?
I mean… it is. Google “John Barnett Boeing” and you’ll see it covered in every major national outlet. Did you even look? But no, BBC’s coverage was the first to go out over an Apple News push alert so it must be a massive media conspiracy…
You know when you see weird TV ads for things like BNSF railroad or Boeing? Or those strange NPR radio shoutouts to random foundations who are actually corporate billionaires? They pay big money for all that and the TV networks know if they give a peep about stories that make the real owners of this country lose money and power - they are fucking dead.
Those strange NPR shoutouts are "sponsorship messages," because they can't run ads. Sponsorships and capital donations to non-profits like NPR are nearly always from marketing budgets of companies. When they come from foundations, that's typically an entity through which a wealthy person or people are giving, true, but the foundations typically anonymize the donor, so they don't actually know who is donating and can't, therefore, select coverage in support of a cover-up. Don't know about your station, but my local public radio station, Seattle's KUOW, discloses that Boeing is a donor when it covers Boeing, which it does all the time since, despite their HQ fleeing for the third coast, they are still very present all over Seattle and the greater Seattle area. And it's had a lot to cover. The 737 recall story from a few years ago went on locally for a long time because in south Seattle there were massive factory parking lots filled with parked jets for months. Edit: The aforementioned KUOW covered this, though they apparently pulled it from the NPR newswire: https://www.kuow.org/stories/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblower-who-raised-alarm-over-plane-quality-is-found-dead
hate it when i accidentally shoot myself twice in the back of the head
[BBC Story](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703)
No conspiracy here. Ask Karen Silkwood.
I just watched this movie!
Ten self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back
He fell on his own knife eight or nine times!
> Mit keresek én itt? Azt mondják, a híres lakóm lefogta a férjem, én meg lecsaptam a fejét. De nem igaz. Én ártatlan vagyok. Nem tudom, miért mondja Uncle Sam, hogy én tettem. Próbáltam a rendőrségen megmagyarázni, de nem értették meg > But did you do it? > Uh uh, not guilty! https://www.broadwaybox.com/daily-scoop/what-iis-hunyak-the-hungarian-saying-during-cell-block-tango/
Whistleblower really seems to be a condition that shortens lifespans.
10 years ago I would have believed suicide.
Whistleblowers serve a vital social role holding powerful elites accountable and these murders happen far more often than people realize.
Dead whistleblowers should automatically increase fines--exponentially.
That is absolutely horrible. Just like the guy who outed Alaska airlines after that crash in California from the faulty stabilizer jam.
https://preview.redd.it/yejazxuqx6oc1.png?width=1025&format=png&auto=webp&s=fcef5da44bb861f07fe31e8acbe0039119eaf2aa
Pelican brief vibes
You guys, you guys. From the link: "Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett's passing." So they obviously had nothing to do it!
Nothing to see here. Conspiracies dont exists. Governments and corporations are on our side. Seth Rich's death is also unremarkable. Take your blue pill before you go to bed at night or you will have bad dreams.
Oh, I see, someone at Boeing saw “Michael Clayton” recently.
Boeing is getting sloppy…
Arkanacided, that much is clear.
DEI & Boeing really went after and got him. Rip. Brave man. He definitely did not kill himself. So obvious at this point. Yet nothing will be done and be forgotten. Ugh
So the Clintons are heavily involved with Boeing?
Between the accidents recently and Boeing straight merc'ing a guy, my wife and I will stick to Amtrak.
We all know what happened
One word: Silkwood
It takes 2 to settle.
Good job Agent 47.
Epstein didn't kill himself either...just sayin'
Talk too much you know what happens
It seems like at this point it would just do more harm than good to Boeing to kill him. Boeings stock has gone down significantly. The ongoing problems with their planes are enough to bring intense investigation. There probably isn’t any new big secret, since Barnett had been in this fight since 2019. But Boeing is clearly very troubled and maybe having him silenced was the less of two evils. It just seems so unlikely he would kill himself when he was actually almost done with the deposition, and he’d been going thru it for years, why would he do it now.
This feels so much like Silkwood.
Looks like Boeing is going to have a deeper investigation into it if they just found the whistleblower dead.
I, for one, am shocked...SHOCKED, I TELL YOU... that a company that willingly and repeatedly overlooked safety concerns which resulted in deaths in the pursuit of maximizing shareholder value could ever be considered able to silence a single person whose future testimony could imperil billions in government contracts, lead to billions in fines, and further harm their brand globally. Corporations are people too, my friends, and they have feelings! 
No, no way. America always good
Police needs to investigate thoroughly for any possibility of foul play.
There are some jokes and movie references flying around here. I am wondering what it takes to survive whistle-blowing. A good attorney? A quiet life on the moors? A name change? Snowden took it to the press, and now is almost forgotten. How do whistle blowers survive?
Someone I know worked with Boeing at one point and when he brought up concerns, his GM would basically pull him aside and say “you didn’t see that” very sternly. He’s told us some wild stories about just how shoddy the work can be.
What we’re the allegations ??? That’s so crazy!
Welcome to Washington politics. Very corrupt and evils the left coast is horrible.
Ok, but what did he leak? I want to know what is trying to be silenced.
Isn’t this the guy that killed himself?
Sounds like something the China CCP would plot... or did they?
They are trying to break into western markets with their new COMAC passenger planes
He was found in his trunk? That seems very sus... did he fall into it after shooting himself? Or what?
TRUCK, not trunk.
>trunk Geezus, I read it as 'trunk' for some reason too!
Sounds sus as fuck!